S02.E21: Chapter Thirty-Four: Judgment Night

[HunterHunted]

12 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I think he killed the doctor because he couldn't come up with an answer to "so, how exactly did you get an arrow wound in your shoulder". I mean, this is Riverdale, not Sherwood Forest. lol Though if he were half as smart as he thinks he could have said a bitter, angry Cheryl shot him when he snuck out of her mother's bedroom after another night of dirty, naughty sex. lol

Hal is dumb. He could have used your Cheryl cover story or he could have said someone stabbed him with something sharp in the middle of the massive riot in Riverdale. If there is one time to safely show up with a sketchy wound and guarantee that the police will not have the resources or bandwidth to follow-up on an investigation, it's in the middle of a riot. Hal panicking and killing the doctor shows that he's a complete and total fuckwit.

[SourK]

I get what they were trying to do by making this the episode where all the random plot lines suddenly crashed together, and I applaud the ambition, but, because those plot lines were super well-developed in the first place, for me this was more like constantly being reminded of story lines I didn't care about.

Observations:

• It's funny that the Serpents vote by making fang hands. It's also funny that Cheryl got to vote because she was just randomly there.
• When the Sheriff said he didn't know the terms of FP's parole, that reminded me that the one term we were explicitly told was that he's not supposed to hang out with the Serpents. He's, like, not even trying to hide it now. Smooth.
• I forgot at first, but now I remember that Veronica believed until this episode that her dad didn't whack Papa Poutine, so having a psycho burst into her house and try to kill her and her mom was not just scary, it was another thing on the growing pile of lies.
• If this were a better, subtler show, I'd like what they were doing by showing that, even though Hermione seems to believe she's making her own choices, she's being manipulated by Hiram.

19 hours ago, notcreative enough said:

 I need Veronica and Cheryl to emancipation themselves and move in together.

I would watch that show.

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 When blond lady kidnapped Toni, I was like "I wouldn't be afraid of Jughead, I would be afraid of Toni's girlfriend, lady" and low and behold!

I kind of like the idea that Penny just doesn't care enough to know who's dating who. She's like, "Here's a girl I saw you with one time. Close enough!"

[WhosThatGirl]

I would but Penny didn’t care if a while ago she didn’t make a point to call out Jugheads soft spot for Betty and then just take Toni because she’s the only serpent teenage girl. Eh. This show.. I miss last season when things made sense.

[rogvortex58]

Seriously?

So an innocent kid is dead. And a grieving mother is going to be locked up for it. Hal might have started this when he killed Midge. But it was Hiram who escalated it when he set up Fangs. And he doesn’t care how many lives are lost in the chaos. As long as he can take credit for restoring order. He is the absolute worse.

Archie still trying to be the peacekeeper. Protecting Reggie was the right move since he didn’t kill Fangs. And he held off the Ghoulies as long as he could, before the Riverdale dads came to the rescue.

Of course FP would do his best to also keep the peace. No sense in going to war with the Northside when there’s a bigger enemy to fight.

Wow. Cheryl was a total badass. Turning the tables on the Black Hood, then going to help Jughead save Toni. Don’t mess with her. I guess it’s an improvement, considering the lack of Choni interaction there has been lately.

It’s no surprise to me that another Black Hood is still gunning for Fred. Obviously one of Hiram’s goons. He really wants him out of the way. Bad timing though, with Hal finally coming clean to Betty and Alice about being the Black Hood. But of course, both women don’t just sit down and take it. They fight back. First Alice distracts Hal by goading him about FP, and Betty knocks him out. Classic mother and daughter tag team. I love it.

Lodge ladies finally seem to be getting tired of Hiram’s manipulations and willingness to sacrifice anyone to get what he wants. Even Hermione. I don’t blame them. Hopefully this comes back to bite him in the ass. There’s no way Veronica is going to just stand back and let him ruin her mother and Fred’s lives.

Not crazy about Jughead giving himself up to Penny. Especially since she has no intention of honouring the deal he made with Hiram. Though it’s good to know everything he’s suspected about Hiram from the beginning was right. It’s good to have someone with a clear head who can see the bigger picture. He knew this was all just a means to an end for Hiram. And that’s why he’s such a threat.

Certainly hope he recovers soon. And the gang can come up with some sort of a plan.

[Ruby Red]

20 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

I actually didn't think the show made too much sense last year either. I don't think this show is really supposed to make "sense", if that makes sense? Lol. I kind of just go with it.

 

Hmm, I do believe that season 1 we had more of a cohesive plot and a more clear and consistent characterization. Better pacing. Generally the writing was not top notch, but it was a lot better than season 2 has been. It had potential.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Ruby Red

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh. I’m going to try next season but this season really soured me. I kind of hope they don’t add a whole bunch of new characters next season and focus on one major plot next season too, instead of having a whole bunch  like they did this season.

[catrice2]

This has become unwatchable....even for what it is. 

[CletusMusashi]

After Alice Cooper's full-on schtick about how much she preferred FP, it finally occurred to me to wonder: does Betty's mom even have a name in the comics? 'Cause, if not, the name that the show-writers gave her is one hell of a "playing with serpents" joke. And, honestly, even if it was her comic name, then the storyline they gave her is still one.

[lorbeer]

5 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

After Alice Cooper's full-on schtick about how much she preferred FP, it finally occurred to me to wonder: does Betty's mom even have a name in the comics? 'Cause, if not, the name that the show-writers gave her is one hell of a "playing with serpents" joke. And, honestly, even if it was her comic name, then the storyline they gave her is still one.

How the name 'Alice' is a "playing with serpents" joke?

[Mr. Sparkle]

Alice Cooper, the singer, was famous for using snakes as props. But I'm pretty sure the names Alice and Hal Cooper come from the comic book, before the band. 

[AdorkableSars]

2 hours ago, Superclam said:

Alice Cooper, the singer, was famous for using snakes as props. But I'm pretty sure the names Alice and Hal Cooper come from the comic book, before the band. 

They do! 

[Dobian]

Jughead is jugdead.

[redfence]

11 hours ago, Superclam said:

Alice Cooper, the singer, was famous for using snakes as props. But I'm pretty sure the names Alice and Hal Cooper come from the comic book, before the band. 

Hal does, but "Alice" was apparently given to Betty's mother long after the real Alice Cooper became a rock star (she was called something else before that), so the name was probably meant as a nod to him.

[Anna Yolei]

On 5/9/2018 at 9:47 PM, Snookums said:

We've all already noted, at length, that Hiram makes nothing but bad decisions: not only did he end up in jail in the first damn place

I'm not a Mafia expert or anything, but I thought "getting caught and going to jail" was one of the only two guaranteed methods to be kicked out the mob.

The other involves disappearing after getting a call to hang out with the boys, who of course will not have seen or heard from him since they called.

21 hours ago, redfence said:

Hal does, but "Alice" was apparently given to Betty's mother long after the real Alice Cooper became a rock star (she was called something else before that), so the name was probably meant as a nod to him.

Alice has always been Alice, which was a very common name when the comic originally began. 

[Dee]

As usual Riverdale's characters of color are invisible unless they're taking the fall for white characters.

[redfence]

3 hours ago, Anna Yolei said:

Alice has always been Alice, which was a very common name when the comic originally began. 

During the sixties and seventies, Betty's mother was named "Helen." (Thanks to the site you linked to for reminding me what it was! They're mistaken about it only being one story though, or maybe they haven't seen the other stories.) I remember seeing a bunch of panels from different stories posted in one of the Archie groups years ago that showed Hal calling her Helen, by someone who was pointing out how the names changed over the years. Mr. Lodge was originally named Burton for instance, then Albert, then J.P. and I think a few other things before he became Hiram. "Alice" was given to Mrs. Cooper in the eighties or nineties.

[UsernameFatigue]

So Betty's dad is the black hood (though his eye shape and colour looks nothing like the black hood's) and there is still a black hood running around who does look like the black hood? Ugh. Dumbest story line of any show I have watched this season - and that bar isn't incredibly high to start with. 

At this point I am only watching to see familiar landmarks. The church shown when the fires were raging is across from what was my grandmother's property/house IRL. That was the high light of the episode for me. Lol. 

[WhosThatGirl]

44 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

So Betty's dad is the black hood (though his eye shape and colour looks nothing like the black hood's) and there is still a black hood running around who does look like the black hood? Ugh. Dumbest story line of any show I have watched this season - and that bar isn't incredibly high to start with. 

At this point I am only watching to see familiar landmarks. The church shown when the fires were raging is across from what was my grandmother's property/house IRL. That was the high light of the episode for me. Lol. 

Yeah.. I mean.. I’m never going to understand what the point of the Black Hood story was because it was never good. Actually.. it was and could have been good had the show decided to make it Archie/Fred’s story, and really what I have always thought it was, The Lodges wanting to get Fred to comply with them. In the season finale last year Fred refused to sign a deal with Hiram and Hermione was even trying to get Veronica to persuade Archie to persuade Fred. Also Hermione was acting real sketchy in the first episode this season after Fred got shot. So it was dumb. 

[CletusMusashi]

On 5/10/2018 at 4:52 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

I would but Penny didn’t care if a while ago she didn’t make a point to call out Jugheads soft spot for Betty and then just take Toni because she’s the only serpent teenage girl. Eh. This show.. I miss last season when things made sense.

Wait... there was a season when things made sense?

[CletusMusashi]

On 5/15/2018 at 5:09 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah.. I mean.. I’m never going to understand what the point of the Black Hood story was because it was never good. Actually.. it was and could have been good had the show decided to make it Archie/Fred’s story

And therein lies the problem. Archie and Fred are not the most entertaining characters on the show.

You know who had no difficulty whatsoever making Black Hood stories interesting? Cheryl and Betty.

And also Alice, interrupting the villain's rant to speak for all of us and yell: "None of this makes any sense!"

[WhosThatGirl]

2 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Wait... there was a season when things made sense?

Last season made more sense to me than this season ever did. It feels like they at least tried last season. This season it really felt there was no real direction or end point and that’s how we ended up with the ending we got.

[CherithCutestory]

On 5/9/2018 at 9:43 PM, HunterHunted said:

Hal as the Black Hood makes no damn sense. Polly was having sex as a teen and getting knocked up. Fred was legally separated from his wife who lived in a different state. He began a short-lived relationship with Hermione, who wasn't separated from Hiram and was actively conspiring with Hiram. The Serpents and Ghoulies were conspicuously committing crimes. Keller and McCoy were having a poorly hidden affair. Penelope Blossom is a prostitute. Hal was cheating on Alice. If the Black Hood/Hal was so concerned about sinners, there were a whole host of people to target before Fred and Midge. Miss Grundy is a predator.

 

But when have serial killers ever been logical and rational thinking? Several have used "sinners" as an excuse to kill and all of them have been hypocrites. 

Hal could never take on a Serpent or a Ghoulie. They would be likely to be armed. He also couldn't take on the Sheriff, who would also likely be armed, and the mayor would likely have body guards. Hermione seemed to live in a secure apartment building. 

And his attacking Alice when she said FP was a real man pretty much showed his real motive. He was just a sexually frustrated dude. He stopped when he was getting some action. And started up again shortly after that stopped. He was jealous of Fred, of Archie with Ms. Grundy (so he took out Grundy and tried to have him buried alive), of kids making out in the woods. He was jealous of anyone who took Betty's attention away. 

He was a coward going after mostly easy marks who he evoked jealousy in him in some way. 

It obviously wasn't the mystery of the year. Although I don't think it was meant to be a big who done it type thing. And, clearly, they didn't know who would be the BH at the start (the eye thing makes no sense.) But for Riverdale I think his motives made sense. And it works well in hindsight even if they didn't set it up that way from the start. (His being laughed at by Alice as not man enough to murder last season, breaking into the Sheriff's, Betty suspecting him, the Betty focus.)

Also, I like that Betty figured it out logically. Rather than being treated as some out of nowhere twist. Whatever else one might dislike about her she isn't stupid. It would be out of character for her not to suspect. She already thought he was capable of murder last season.

Cheryl's "Thank God I was able to get to my archery kit and my hunting cape." was the best line in the entire show. And they aren't the best at character consistency but they have definitely set-up Cheryl as the type of person who thinks she needs a hunting cape to shoot someone. 

Madchen Amick is too damn good for this show. I mean several actors are but damn she is good. And she doesn't half-ass it because it's Riverdale and she's just there for the paycheck. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[finnzup]

On 7/9/2018 at 10:32 PM, CherithCutestory said:

Madchen Amick is too damn good for this show

Agreed!  And on the flip side, Mark Consuelos is the absolute worst.  For me, this guy can't act to save his life.  It's actually embarrassing.  The 'kids' are acting circles around him, imo.

[WhosThatGirl]

I find MA okay. Maybe because I’m just not that big a fan of Alice? I know she’s a fan favorite and the show has tried to make her better in season 2 but I find her actions in early season one to Betty kind of awful and that sours me on the character and look I know these characters aren’t strictly good or bad all the time but I just don’t really get the Alice love so im meh on MA. As for Mark.. yeah Hiram does nothing for me either except laugh and laugh that the character seems obsessed with teenagers like in a bad way. 

[Piperazzi]

Hello, I just joined the forums here basically because of this show and Andi Mack. I am a 13 year old girl who really got into Season One of the show and I honestly thought that Season Two lost some of its appeal with the exception of Jughead and Betty Cooper. Archie and Veronica also had some moments on screen as did Cheryl Blossom when she was over the top bizarre, but Jughead and Betty once again carried the show. I am sticking with the show because of my love for Cole Sprouse and Lili Reinhart and hoping for better thing in Season Three.