S07.E18: The Guardian

[formerlyfreedom]

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Following Nick's death, Weaver discovers the Dark One Dagger has been taken and sets out to get it back, even if it means betraying Roni's trust. Meanwhile, Margot takes Tilly on a date, but their time together takes an unexpected twist. In a flashback, Rumple, desperate to be reunited with Belle, pays Alice a visit.

 

[Worsel]

I liked this episode, it didn't drag on and of course Robert Carlyle's acting was excellent.  Although the Belle shrine was a bit much, even for him.  Best of all there was hardly any Henry/Jacinda.  

[kpw801]

26 minutes ago, Worsel said:

I liked this episode, it didn't drag on and of course Robert Carlyle's acting was excellent.  Although the Belle shrine was a bit much, even for him.  Best of all there was hardly any Henry/Jacinda.  

I know right? It seems the longer the series the worse the chemistry!  Other than that, it was a gripping ep.

[Rumsy4]

Let me get this straight... Rumple goes behind WHook's back, “tests” Alice by tempting her to commit murder, doesn’t tell her what being a “Guardian” entails, and then has a change of heart at the last minute because of Belle’s cringey ghostly voiceover. And both Alice and WHook are grateful to him? As though he did some great service to her? Man, this show has such a low bar of “good behavior” for some of it’s villains. And in HH he once again proves that he doesn't care a hang for Henry, his so-called favorite character. I’m never going to be able to buy Rumple’s redemption because we’ve seen him do this dance for seven seasons now. 

However, this was a pretty good episode. The Alice actress (Rose) does a fantastic job portraying her in both the flashbacks and HH as special, but with a difference in both cases. In HH, it comes across as a mental illness, and it would have been so easy to turn that into a caricature. But she walks the fine line perfectly. I thought she and Robyn were cute, and it was a nice inversion that Robyn's the one who's travelled widely in the Real World.

I'm confused why or how the Dagger ended up in Tilly's backpack. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Rumsy4

[rogvortex58]

I’m just so done with Rumple. He ruined and manipulated so many people’s lives just because he needed the curse and Emma to break it. Now he’s doing the same to Alice and Rogers. And not because it’s for the greater good. But because he wants something out of it. Screw him and his long game.

As Captain America would say: “you may not be a threat, but you better stop pretending to be a hero”

the sooner he dies the better.

[CCTC]

I missed the first half of the episode, but for once I am almost tempted to go out of my way and watch what I missed.  This episode made me think they could have had a good season if they would have been focused and had a tighter plot from the start.  Regina works better when she has a little bit of a bite to her and is not in earth mother mode.

This is really petty.  Carlyse did a decent job and was probably his best episode of the season, but I have a hard time not looking at his hair.  It is probably just in an awkward in between stage as he is growing it out (although I liked it short), but it is half seventies feathered and half 80's mullet with a touch of the 80's permed look.  He is a good looking guy, but the hair style kind of looks silly on him at this point.   To counter my pettiness, his line delivery of spinning, spinning, spinning to Hook as he slipped into Rumpelstiltskin was well done.

18 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I’m never going to be able to buy Rumple’s redemption because we’ve seen him do this dance for seven seasons now. 

Yes - I thought they did a decent job with him in this episode, but after watching him six seasons, a little too much water has gone under the bridge and too many flips flops for any redemption to ring true.  

That said, I did think a lot of things clicked in the episode.  Alice has really hit her marks and I could buy her and Robyn.  I think Facillier is decent, and even he relationship with Regina could have been interesting if it would have played throughout the season.  Unfortunately,there have too many starts and stops on the season and too many shifts in story line and it is so close to the end, that what develops now seems pretty irrelevant even if it is better than what they have had for a while.

Edited April 21, 2018 by CCTC

[CCTC]

8 minutes ago, rogvortex58 said:

And not because it’s for the greater good. But because he wants something out of it.

True - it is basically so he can be good to join his wife who he has an obsessive relationship with not because he really wants to be a better person.  While I think he did a decent acting job, with him looking all elder statesman while looking at the framed picture of Belle, further emphasized how basically their relationship consisted of an older, controlling man with power wanting a much younger, sheltered woman (really not much more than a girl when they first met).

Edited April 21, 2018 by CCTC

[Rumsy4]

12 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

If I pull a gun on someone and then aim away from them, I shouldn't be expecting a medal and parade for saving that person's life. 

Well said! 

Without Ghost Belle's voice-over to remind him of his fake-ass "good heart" in HH, he didn't even stop himself from jeopardizing Henry's cure. 

And now we know why Rumple was so blase about Anastasia going back to the Disenchanted Forest. He always knew he had a backup in Alice. But he had to pretend that it was the "right" thing to do when he let Ana go. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

Alice/Tilly really has a lovely smile. It's like the sun comes out and she just glows when she smiles, and you want to make her happy enough to smile like that all the time.

Though I do have to wonder how Tilly can not have seen any of the world when she has a foreign accent, so she must have come to Seattle recently enough (considering how young she is) from Britain not to have lost that accent. She doesn't seem to have any parents in her life (that she knows of, obviously, since she's actually living with her dad) to influence her having that accent. Then again, Hyperion Heights seems to be Little Britain, given Rogers, Weaver, Victoria, Samdi, Gothel, and Kelly.

I don't think their special effects in the dagger/Guardian scene with Alice and Rumple fit what the story seemed to be supposedly telling us because what I thought was going on was Alice turning the dagger into a ball of power that she was about to destroy before Rumple couldn't bear the thought of losing his power completely and grabbed the dagger back. I actually said out loud, "Ha! I knew he wouldn't be able to give that power up." I was really surprised when he started talking about how he couldn't force her to become immortal and he'd have to find another way. I think they needed to have been clearer about the power going into her if that's what they were trying to convey. Or else he lied and it really was about him not wanting to give up the power.

The Belle shrine was rather creepy.

[KingOfHearts]

I wasn't able to watch the entire episode, but... Regina's hair reminded me just how much she looks like she could be Drizella's mother.

32 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

The Belle shrine was rather creepy.

Rumpbelle is now the "Pixar wannabe" couple. First Up, now Coco.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

Let me get this straight... Rumple goes behind WHook's back, “tests” Alice by tempting her to commit murder, doesn’t tell her what being a “Guardian” entails, and then has a change of heart at the last minute because of Belle’s cringey ghostly voiceover. And both Alice and WHook are grateful to him? As though he did some great service to her?

I guess that's a sign of how WHook really is a cinnamon roll. I would hope that if Rumple even remotely started contemplating using Hook Prime's daughter that way, things would get intensely ugly. Though I think Hook would have to get in line behind Emma.

And I wonder how much Belle knew about all this Guardian stuff. Was her grand plan of being able to save Rumple (with his good heart) always about finding a pure innocent and forcing that person to become a powerful immortal -- exactly the thing Rumple is trying to get rid of, only not evil?

It seems like there's magic in Hyperion Heights, unlike the outside world we've seen previously. Did this curse bring it over somehow, or is this the effects of Henry's big "throw coins in the fountain and believe in magic" stunt that brought magic to the whole world, not just Storybrooke? Is Rumple still immortal here, or would he actually die (like he nearly did when Hook poisoned him or when he had the heart attack)? Rogers made the remark about him being "immortal" when he didn't die of the gunshot, but you've got to wonder why getting himself killed doing something heroic while in the World Without Magic wouldn't solve everything.

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

I'm confused why or how the Dagger ended up in Tilly's backpack. 

I think it had something to do with her being the Guardian. It magically teleported into her keeping when Facilier was looking for it at the police station. Maybe? Nothing about this storyline is clear.

[Writing Wrongs]

18 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Rumpbelle is now the "Pixar wannabe" couple. First Up, now Coco.

Yeah, I thought we were getting a Coco rip-off.

[CCTC]

54 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

The Belle shrine was rather creepy.

So you are saying it was appropriate and consistent with that couple.

[Rumsy4]

12 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think it had something to do with her being the Guardian. It magically teleported into her keeping when Facilier was looking for it at the police station.

That makes sense, actually. 

[Camera One]

Wow, what a mess.  You can always count on a Rumbelle episode to bring the WTF to morality issues.  Like many of you, I have flabbergasted (even though I wasn't exactly surprised) when Alice and later Whook thanked Rumple profusely for not following through with destroying Alice's life and using her as a vessel to get rid of his baggage.  With friends like him, who needs enemies?  This is supposed to explain Alice's comment in the 7A finale that after what Rumple did for her, she needs to stick by him?  

I know it was supposed to be heart wrenching, but I was laughing so hard at that shaky table when they used muffled old dialogue of Belle saying Rumple is "a good man", "your heart is pure", etc.  I guess they had a plethora of episodes to pick from for those audio clips.  

I have zero sympathy for Rumple at this point, so three quarters of this episode left me cold.  

And the black goo coming out of him and engulfing Alice was basically a copy of what happened to Emma in the 4B finale.  So The Guardian = The Savior?  Would Dark Alice have acted like Dark Swan?  

And Weaver was contemplating doing this to Anastasia?  So he learned nothing, basically.

Rumple did something unselfish and then he instantly turned reptilian.  Ooookay... 

And speaking of zero plot movement, Roni actually summed it up at the end when she said, "Everything you did today was for nothing."  Because really, nothing that happened in this episode actually mattered.  You could watch the next episode and you wouldn't actually be lost.

So Alice refusing to crush a heart makes her The Guardian?  Even Regina refused to crush the heart of a unicorn once.  

Are we supposed to believe that the amount of magic needed to save Henry is the same as the amount of magic to do a simple locator spell?  Why wouldn't Tilly be sitting at the troll if that was where the dagger pointed to?  Rumple arrived first and then Tilly came up after.  I suppose she could have been across the road or something but it wasn't a smooth transition.

I totally didn't understand the dagger being in the backpack either, until Shanna Marie's explanation above.  Was it supposed to make no sense or did it just come off that way?

Why the heck is Dr. Facilier so powerful and knowledgeable?  I find him more annoying than deliciously evil.  

And Mother Gothel was off weeding in the community garden again, I presume?

Why wouldn't Regina ask Dr. Facilier WHY he killed Nick?  No one asks any relevant questions.

I liked seeing Alice and Robyn's date in the present-day.  The actress who plays Alice is pretty awesome.  She was great in the flashback as well.  She elevated it way more than Robert Carlyle did.   It's too bad A&E stopped doing these slower everyday type storylines for the original characters five seasons ago.  The one negative note was how Robyn seemed mad when Tilly went to see her at the bar at the end.  Alice obviously had a painful migraine headache or something, and that's why she ran out of the bookshop.  Why would Robyn act coldly, like she was the wronged party?  Because of that, the whole bit where Robyn said that Alice doesn't have to worry and she's not "too much" lost any impact that it might have had otherwise.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Camera One

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Why would Robyn act coldly, like she was the wronged party?

Because if the "good guys" don't do every single thing that's asked of them, they're eeeeevil and deserve to die. 

[Rumsy4]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

Because of that, the whole bit where Robyn said that Alice doesn't have to worry and she's not "too much" lost any impact that it might have had otherwise.

I was rolling my eyes so hard. The problem with "normal" people like Robyn is that they'll never be able to truly get what people with some kind of mental illness or abuse in their part go through. They may think they can understand, but they really can't. That's why I'm not sold on their pairing yet. However, I do think they are cute and more believable as a developing romance than most other romances in this Show, and that's saying a lot. 

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

The Guardian = The Savior?  Would Dark Alice have acted like Dark Swan?  

I think the Guardian is supposed to be like Merlin. IIRC, Merlin told Emma about someone who could wield the Darkness for good or something like that. So, I guess this storyline is not completely out of the blue. But I think that's a coincidence, because A&E made no effort to connect the dots between Merlin and the Guardian. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Rumsy4

[txhorns79]

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If someone I was getting to know and starting to date had a moment like Alice/Tilly, I would be concerned for them and their safety not annoyed that our rambling date got cut short. My reaction to her entering the bar at the end would have been, "Are you okay? I was worried when you seemed to be in so much pain/anguish." 

It's a little strange to me.  From Robin's point of view, Tilly probably appears mentally ill, but Robin kind of hand waives all that like it is nothing.  I'd think the reality is you'd want to continue to get to know Tilly, but learn a lot more about her issues before acting as though they won't stand in the way of any relationship. 

[Rumsy4]

The other thing that bothered me about the scene was the soon-to-happen drinking. Tilly is on meds, and it seems irresponsible to show her consuming alcohol. Okay, they didn't actually show it, but it was treated casually, and not as though it might be risky. I'm sure the writers of the episode forgot or didn't even know Tilly was supposed to be on meds. 

Plus, if my friend or date was already hearing voices, I wouldn't offer them alcohol. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

Like many of you, I have flabbergasted (even though I wasn't exactly surprised) when Alice and later Whook thanked Rumple profusely for not following through with destroying Alice's life and using her as a vessel to get rid of his baggage.  With friends like him, who needs enemies?

This is the show in which Regina was totally redeemed and became a hero because she stopped her own doomsday device that she planned to use to murder everyone in the town, not because she changed her mind and decided it was wrong to murder everyone in town, but because someone else hijacked it and she was caught in her own trap after she had already made sure to destroy the means of escape. So at least they're consistent.

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

Rumple did something unselfish and then he instantly turned reptilian.  Ooookay... 

That's part of why I wasn't sure if he told Alice the truth. All the visuals said to me that the power was just going to be destroyed but he couldn't bear to go through with it, so he chose to stay the Dark One yet again, which turned him into SparkleDark. I know they had to explain the fact that he was SparkleDark in an earlier flashback of a later time, and when they did that episode they probably hadn't yet figured out how all this worked, but what they showed us and what they told us didn't match for me.

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

The one negative note was how Robyn seemed mad when Tilly went to see her at the bar at the end.  Alice obviously had a painful migraine headache or something, and that's why she ran out of the bookshop.  Why would Robyn act coldly, like she was the wronged party?

Because they've been watching too many Hallmark romantic comedy movies? It does seem to be a bad romcom trope, where one member of the couple has some kind of issue, and the other person acts like they've been personally wronged when that issue affects the person until they get the explanation. And then everyone's okay after the explanation comes out, with the first person not being bothered by the fact that the other person was annoyed by their trauma/illness/whatever.

28 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

But seriously, I would be concerned about Tilly's behavior and wondering about voices in the head. That can be a big red flag.

Yeah, Tilly is sweet and adorable, but I'd take that relationship really, really slowly if I were Robyn. This is when you stretch out the friends phase and find out what's going on and whether it goes beyond quirky to dangerous to self/others. A person in her mid-late 20s (depending on how the timeline goes, and Alice's age doesn't fit with any timeline information we have) who's just started her very first job, just moved off the streets and in with a cop who's been concerned about her, who hears voices, and who thought she might be invisible when they met is really not relationship material. Be her friend, but she has other things she needs to deal with than the intensity of a romantic relationship.

[tennisgurl]

So, at least we finally got confirmation on what the Guardian actually is, and what they do. I mean, they kinda do (a potential guardian? What does that mean?), but considering how this show is allergic to explaining how any of the magic in their world works at any point, I should be happy we at least have something. So I guess the whole Anna/Ivy/Tremaine thing really was 100% pointless, right?

I think I would like this episode better if we hadn't seen variations of it a hundred times before. Rumple is good, is tempted to be evil, almost does evil, gets a pep talk from Belle where she calls him pure of heart and a good man (even from beyond the grave now!), and then stops himself from doing evil, usually stopping an evil plan that he started in the first place. Then everyone congratulates him for being so awesome and good. Really, if I didnt know the context of this, and hadn't watched the last six seasons, I would have thought this was a pretty good episode. But...I have, so I am so totally over semi reformed villains getting a cookie every time they resist the urge to kill someone for five minutes. Bobby put in a good performance though, so I least I didnt have to watch the crappy acting of several of the new characters. 

Bells weird voice over was so silly, I actually laughed out loud. I am so sick of this "pure of heart" crap they keep trying to sell us. I think that ship sailed several murders ago, Belle! At least shes consistently delusional, even after death. Besides, why is it so important to be "pure of heart" anyway? Lots of good people have flaws or make mistakes, that not that weird! But O guess in a universe where self defense killing can blacken your soul, you have to be extra vigilante on those hearts of yours. And I think I would be more interested in Rumples latest attempt at being good if it didnt come off like he was just being a good guy so he could die and be with Belle. Its like when Regina was only being a good guy to get in Henry's good graces, it feels super self centered and insincere. 

Henry and Jacinda really do have negative chemistry, dont they? Even the show seems to realize this, as they seemed to have frantically shifted their shipper bait to Tilly/Robyn, beyond what they need to happen for plot stuff. I do enjoy Alice/Robyn, in both their incarnations, they have good chemistry, and their date was really cute, even if it ended in that stupid couple mix up thing that crappy rom coms always do. Isn't it kind of early for contrived conflicts? If you really want relationship drama, couldn't it be over something that actually makes sense? But I guess I shouldn't complain, as their plot is really the only one I am actually kind of invested in, besides Alice/Tilly and Rodgers/Hooks. I wish we had gotten scenes of people walking around HH a bit more this season, then maybe I would care about it a bit more? Athough I guess the gentrification stuff is gone now, so I guess I dont need to know how awesome or not awesome this place is. I thought that would break the curse? 

This episode also confirms that Regina is just the most easily led person in the world, right? By her mom, by Rumple, and now by Facillier. How could this guy you know is an evil witch doctor be evil?!?! At least the actor is still clearly having a good time, so I can deal with his scenes. If anything, I wish he had been around earlier, so this part of the season could have tied more into this part. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Rumsy4]

29 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

How could this guy you know is an evil switch doctor be evil?!?! 

At her age (what, 90 at least by now) and with her life-experiences, she should have known better by now. And Rumple, who is like 500 now, still gives in to every evil impulse, and only pulls back from going through with it every other time. It's all so beyond played out.

Imp!Rumple seemed too much like his Wish-counterpart from KnightFall. 

Also, Roni's hair is atrocious.

[Camera One]

Anyone knows how easily those little padlocks can be broken or cut.  Why wouldn't Regina just carry that small flask with her?  How long does it take to brew that potion anyway?  

Ditto for Rumple keeping that dagger in the storage locker at the precinct?  Do detectives have their own personal lockers?  

It also bothers me how much magic Dr. Facilier has in the World Without Magic.  Did he take a flask in the Anastasia episode?  If he had so much magic from that, why did he need the sugar from the beignets to power that voodoo doll?  

In Storybrooke, Graham's death was ruled as a heart attack.  Why wouldn't the reports show his heart was crushed if in Hyperion Heights, Nick's heart was pierced from the inside?  

Could someone clarify whether that was a shrine that Rumple built himself for Belle?

Edited April 21, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Regina put it best:

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"So everything you did for today was for nothing? You know, after everything we've been through, I thought you could trust me enough to help you. But instead, you went behind my back to get what you want, like you always do... and continue to put Henry's life at risk. No matter what you tell yourself, you haven't changed a bit. I'm done with it.  You and I? We're through."

That's only what we as the audience have been thinking for the past few seasons. She put everything wrong with this episode in bold print. Thank you, Regina. It's been too long since you've given us a good truth bomb.

There isn't much to say. It was an awful episode. I laughed when the camera focused on Belle's picture as Rumple remembered what she said. Robyn wouldn't have appeared so bitchy if the actress had played the scene in the bar differently. I couldn't really fault the writing too much there. 

Quote

Bells weird voice over was so silly, I actually laughed out loud.

Same! Belle communicates through mirrors, dreams, and now framed yearbook pictures.

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Besides, why is it so important to be "pure of heart" anyway? Lots of good people have flaws or make mistakes, that not that weird! 

It's part of this show's twisted morality. No one is "pure of heart", but they can be good-natured. They make mistakes, but their ultimate goal is to do good to others. By contrast, Rumple intentionally stumbles and doesn't care about anyone. He's not rehabilitating or repenting - he's just playing act so he can be with Belle. This is what we call "moral desert". It's all in the intentions. Rumple only does good deeds because he wants something. Take away what Belle feels he deserves, and he's back to doing whatever he wants. Say what you want about Regina - at least now, in S7, she's working to help others. She doesn't act entitled like she did before. Rumple can't report the same changes for himself.

Edited April 21, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

27 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Robyn wouldn't have appeared so bitchy if the actress had played the scene in the bar differently. I couldn't really fault the writing too much there. 

Unless the script said something like.

ROBYN STANDS AT THE BAR, LOOKING REALLY PISSED OFF.  SO AUDIENCE WILL BE SURPRISED WHEN SHE SOFTENS 30 SECONDS LATER.

TILLY: You're right.  You can put candy on anything.

ROBYN STARES COLDLY AND REPLIES IN ACID TONES.  

ROBYN: Yeah.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Could someone clarify whether that was a shrine that Rumple built himself for Belle?

I wondered if it was some kind of temple of the dead and Rumple was trying to communicate with Belle there. There were too many skulls in that room for it to be a shrine Rumple made for Belle. 

[Camera One]

7 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I wondered if it was some kind of temple of the dead and Rumple was trying to communicate with Belle there. There were too many skulls in that room for it to be a shrine Rumple made for Belle. 

Yeah, that makes sense.  It's confusing since they never explained where that was, and I think the photo of Belle was already there when Rumple went back with Alice.  Between that and the dagger in the backpack, it seems like they took a few leaps of logic when writing this episode.  

[Rumsy4]

He had left Belle’s photo when he left the first time. Why? Who knows...

13 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

All the visuals said to me that the power was just going to be destroyed but he couldn't bear to go through with it, so he chose to stay the Dark One yet again, which turned him into SparkleDark.

That’s the impression I got as well. Maybe it was intented as a fakeout to the audience, but really, that would’ve been more believable than the false narrative of Rumple’s pure heart the Show keeps pushing.

[Camera One]

I knew Rumple gave up his chance at freedom because he was looking at Alice with such guilt in his eyes as he heard his wife's message from beyond.  The voice of Belle really pushed me over the edge as I wept tear after crocodile tear.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Camera One

[thuganomics85]

Classic Once Upon a Time!  You once again (and again) have an episode where one of the villains plans on doing something selfish/evil/villainous, but they suddenly change their minds for whatever reason, and suddenly everyone is acting like they are the greatest ever.  Even though they were only fixing the mistakes that they themselves caused.  So, this time it is Rumple fully preparing to trick Alice into becoming the new Dark One, but then once he hears Belle's voice, he suddenly realizes he can't go through it, and then it is hugs from Alice and even a handshake from Hook.  At this point, I'm not sure were the biggest issue is coming from: the villains themselves not growing or leaning from their actions, or everyone else treating them with kid gloves and enabling their behavior.

It's really kind of a bummer that the show is finally going somewhere with Alice/Tilly after wasting so much time this season, because Rose Reynolds really is showing herself to be a standout.  She has found the right balance of making Alice/Tilly unstable in a lot of ways, but someone who really wants to find joy in her life, and not be a burden on those who care for her.  And while the show is doing its typical "rushing through the development" with her and Robin's romance, I do find myself enjoying it and rooting for it to work out.  Although I really do wish they played Robin's reaction at the bar differently.  Came off way too cold and uncaring.  Granted, some of the problem is that I just don't think Tiera Skovbye is quite as strong as Reynolds is, even though she does play off her well enough.

The Belle Shrine and voiceover was seriously some of the funniest shit ever and it so wasn't suppose to be.  Although I did get a good legit laugh over Facilier's failed attempt to take out Rumple with voodoo doll.  Again, he's another actor who is actually quite good, but the material just isn't really there for him.

Henry convinces Hook to break police procedure (although, does any office in Hyperion Heights actually follow rules?), and let him into Nick/Jack/Hansel's apartment, where he get ahold of the parental test, and gets proof from the hospital that it is legit.  So, now he and Jacinda know he actually is Lucy's father.  Well, actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they find ways for them to keep denying it for a few more episodes.

Well, it wasn't the worst episode of this season and, again, Rose Reynolds was fantastic (and it goes without saying that Robert Carlyle is still awesome no matter what crap he's stuck with), so I guess this is a win, more or less? 

[mythoughtis]

The episodes keep getting better.  If  the first half of this season hadn’t been so bad, this could have been renewed.    

Rumple finally stopped HIMSELF from from tearing a person apart for his needs. I think that is why WHook thanked him.   Too bad Weaver couldn’t have been as altruistic.  I don’t think Gold will end up with Belle- although he may die by the hands of someone holding the dagger.

finally Henry may wake up. Although if it is idiot adult Henry from the DF....

absolutely love Tilly. How is it that Rogers can get close to Tilly and the same with Henry and Jacinda? 

Fyi- I think Henry kept his real name because he wasn’t a fairytale character in the first place. Never mind that he wrote himself into a book. The characters precede the book. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by mythoughtis

[Rumsy4]

35 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

How is it that Rogers can get close to Tilly and the same with Henry and Jacinda? 

Probably because there is no magic in Hyperion Heights (except for Ana, Gothel, Facilier, and occasionally, Alice, lol). 

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Probably because there is no magic in Hyperion Heights (except for Ana, Gothel, Facilier, and occasionally, Alice, lol). 

And the corner drugstore and WishMart and...  but it all comes with a price, right?

[momma2rnr]

On 4/21/2018 at 9:41 AM, XrystalPond said:

If someone I was getting to know and starting to date had a moment like Alice/Tilly, I would be concerned for them and their safety not annoyed that our rambling date got cut short. My reaction to her entering the bar at the end would have been, "Are you okay? I was worried when you seemed to be in so much pain/anguish." 

P.S. The Belle shrine reminded me of a 1970s or 1980s prom with all the flowers and crepe paper stuff. And I agree with whoever said Facilier is coming off as annoying rather than deliciously evil. When he lifted the mask to reveal himself to Rumple, I audibly groaned and said, "What? This guy again?"

 

On 4/21/2018 at 3:12 PM, Camera One said:

Anyone knows how easily those little padlocks can be broken or cut.  Why wouldn't Regina just carry that small flask with her?  How long does it take to brew that potion anyway?  

Ditto for Rumple keeping that dagger in the storage locker at the precinct?  Do detectives have their own personal lockers?  

It also bothers me how much magic Dr. Facilier has in the World Without Magic.  Did he take a flask in the Anastasia episode?  If he had so much magic from that, why did he need the sugar from the beignets to power that voodoo doll?  

In Storybrooke, Graham's death was ruled as a heart attack.  Why wouldn't the reports show his heart was crushed if in Hyperion Heights, Nick's heart was pierced from the inside?  

Could someone clarify whether that was a shrine that Rumple built himself for Belle?

It's not a "shrine." With all of the things on it, it looked like an ofrenda. During Dia de Los Muertos, people create altars (or ofrendas) to celebrate their deceased loved ones. Dia de Los Muertos is the only day of the year that our loved ones can come visit from the other side. Many families (mine included) create the ofrenda, then leave food and gifts for our loved ones. It's our way to remember them and to celebrate their life. In Hispanic culture, death isn't the end, our loved ones continue to live in Heaven.

 

I thought it was a great way to incorporate Coco which was an amazing movie that brought a piece our culture to the masses. People think Day of the Dead is just skulls and flowers, but it's so much more. Some people do leave their altars up all the time.

[Camera One]

Tweet from Brigitte, who co-wrote this episode

Quote

Brigitte Hales‏ @InkTankGirl Apr 21

Replying to @NiamhLoveCS

I loved working on the Alice/Robin story. Also, the whole scene with Alice and Gold when he gives up the power. And I really, really love the opening scene where Gold talks to Belle, which David wrote.

They love having Rumple monologue to the dearly departed, don't they.

Quote

Steff‏ @MysticKid Apr 21

@InkTankGirl Do you recall an idea that like a guiding star got you through and past all the necessities of story back to completing itself as what you imagined?

Brigitte Hales‏ @InkTankGirl Apr 21

Replying to @MysticKid  That’s a hard one. We’d known for a while that Gold was going to sacrifice seeing Belle for Alice’s happiness. That was an idea that had lived in the room for months. I’d say that was our guiding light.

What a sacrifice.  If he did that, would he still go into the light?  Of course he would... he deserves it as much as Cora.

[KingOfHearts]

46 minutes ago, Camera One said:

They love having Rumple monologue to the dearly departed, don't they.

Especially right before he goes against everything he just monologued about in the same episode.

Quote

What a sacrifice.  If he did that, would he still go into the light?  Of course he would... he deserves it as much as Cora.

When I watched that scene, it looked as though Rumple wasn't willing to give up his dagger. Of course, he was staring at the bracelet and Picture!Belle was coaching him, so obviously he was meant to be thinking of Robyn/Alice. But this is Rumple.

Edited April 23, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

It's interesting how multiple people interpreted that scene incorrectly and didn't see that he sacrificed his own happiness for Alice's.  It looks like some people just don't have enough HOPE inside of them.  I will find some moss to heal your frozen hearts.

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

I will find some moss to heal your frozen hearts.

Don't bother going to M. Jagger or K. Richards -- they won't have any!

[Camera One]

In this episode, was Rumple hoping to confirm Alice as the Guardian by having Belle tell him it's her?  He didn't do the "Choose the Dagger" test that he gave Anastasia.  It seems like Rumple doesn't know much about The Guardian or he might have guessed the Dagger went straight to Alice's backpack (which is practically a character this season).  

[Rumsy4]

39 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Alice's backpack (which is practically a character this season).

And has played a much bigger role than Jacinda. :-p

[Shanna Marie]

14 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

54 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Alice's backpack (which is practically a character this season).

And has played a much bigger role than Jacinda. :-p

And has done more to affect the plot than Henry.

[Rumsy4]

15 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

30 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Alice's backpack (which is practically a character this season).

And has played a much bigger role than Jacinda. :-p

And has done more to affect the plot than Henry.

And has been more useful than Roni. 

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

Alice's backpack (which is practically a character this season).

And has played a much bigger role than Jacinda. :-p

And has done more to affect the plot than Henry.

And has been more useful than Roni. 

I think we finally have an actual protagonist for this season. Though we still aren't clear on what the backpack's goals and motivations are. How does protecting the dagger fit with collecting potentially incriminating evidence?

[KingOfHearts]

S7 tagline: "What happens when coat hangers, black gloves, and voodoo dolls fight over a backpack?"

[Rumsy4]

34 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think we finally have an actual protagonist for this season. Though we still aren't clear on what the backpack's goals and motivations are. How does protecting the dagger fit with collecting potentially incriminating evidence?

It was collecting evidence against Nick. Poor Rogers misunderstood its noble intentions. It wanted to be his sidekick.

24 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

S7 tagline: "What happens when coat hangers, black gloves, and voodoo dolls fight over a backpack?"

Who lives who dies who tells the story. 

[jhlipton]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

Alice's backpack (which is practically a character this season). 

5 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

And has played a much bigger role than Jacinda. :-p

5 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

And has done more to affect the plot than Henry.

4 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

And has been more useful than Roni. 

And is a better actor / actress than Lucy.

[Camera One]

LOL at the nested replies.

I was reading a recap/review of this episode, and the writer said it broke from the pattern because usually, characters make a mistake in the flashback and then they make the right decision in the present-day.  But in this episode, Rumple does the right thing in the flashbacks, but does the wrong thing in the present-day.  

My memories about this show is so jumbled.  Does anyone remember another episode which had this pattern?  Did it break the mould, or not really?

I was thinking about that Dagger magically going into Alice's backpack.

It's too bad Rumple didn't have a Guardian with him earlier in the series whenever people were after his dagger.  So everytime someone would try to steal it, it would just end up in the possession of the Guardian?  So are they called the Guardian because they're the Guardian of the Dagger?  Who was the Guardian before Alice?  Why didn't they do anything when anyone tried to steal Rumple's dagger before?

[KingOfHearts]

6 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Who was the Guardian before Alice?  Why didn't they do anything when anyone tried to steal Rumple's dagger before?

Anna had the exact same test as Alice, yet she wasn't a Guardian. 

[darkestboy]

I really liked this one. I mean the Rumple stuff was same old, same old, both in flashback and present day but everything else actually worked.

Alice/Robin really do work as a couple. Their interactions feel natural, the actresses play off each other and their scenes were the highlight of the episode.

Regina and Facilier are still better than Henry/Jacinda but even this episode saw her side with him over Rumple too quickly for my liking, despite Rumple messing up again.

Glad they had Henry tell Jacinda about Lucy but now is past the time for both of them and Rogers to get their memories back, 8/10

[Rushmoras]

Really, Roni? "After all we been through...". Yeah, you shouldn't be surprised at all about Weavers actions, and, yet, you are. I guess all that you've been through did not teach you anything. Other then that, I liked the episode, even though each episodes are just random stories that don't go anywhere. Butprobably mostly because Henry and Jacinda was really limited.