S03.E03: A Generation Too Late

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

In this episode, Chuck finds himself in a dilemma as he is given a perverse directive.  On the other hand, Axe expands upon a secret venture.

[scrb]

Lara seemed contemplative and serene as she considered the language in the separation documents describing their marriage as "irretrievably broken."

Then she got really alert as soon as Bobby told her they may only be left with $300 million.  From serenity to horror to fear.

Meanwhile, Axe convinced Panay that he won't be able to live on $40 million from his failed firm -- he and his family would have to fly commercial!

But $30 million was more than good enough for Ira, because he still couldn't get over how soft his fiancee's skin was -- that wasn't creepy, him stroking her cheek while saying "so soft."  Ira doesn't owe Chuck anything but since his fiancee isn't going to marry him unless he puts the bloodiest diamond on her finger, $30 million is plenty good.

 

I don't know if "inducement to sabotage" is even a real crime.  Maybe Bryan meant entrapment?  How is it "prosecutorial misconduct" for Chuck to let Bobby learn that he had a lot of money in Ice Juice?  Chuck had no way of knowing what Axe would do with that knowledge.  He had an idea but he couldn't be sure.  He might have guessed that Bobby would try some trading maneuvers to hurt the stock, not go and literally try to make it seem like the product was tainted.

Why would Ira even be a witness in the criminal case?  He didn't know what Chuck or Bobby was doing.  He's more of a victim, not an accomplice or a witness.  And Bryan said they're in the "truth business?"  Come on this is one of the most high-profile US Attorney office in the country.  Lawyers go there to build up their political resumes by winning big cases, so that they can parlay it into political office.

I could swear last season that the FBI took pictures of Bobby meeting with those loan sharks.  Or did I imagine that?  They would have had to have known about the people who'd be faking in advance for the FBI to be around to tape them.  So Bobby took care of all 3 fakers now?

Of course that's witness tampering and obstruction of justice.  Those are definitely real crimes, though I don't know if "inducement to sabotage" is. 

 

The end game is that Bobby is not going to get convicted and have to go to prison or worse, not be able to trade forever.  They would save that kind of outcome for the series finale, not in season 3 -- I would think the producers would want to keep the show going for a few more seasons.  So they're making viewers watch them jump through hoops to free Axe, I guess.

I'm sure a lot of viewers are Team Axe so these plot developments are probably welcome to many.

 

As for the plot about the AJ forcing Chuck to prosecute that case, I guess they want to slow-roll the direct Axe vs. Rhoads battle, make it last several seasons, so Chuck is kind of on the sidelines of the actual case, though now with Ira accusing Chuck of entrapping Axe, he'll get pulled in.

Edited April 9, 2018 by scrb

[Joimiaroxeu]

If nothing else, Axe knows greed will almost always pull someone in. Why does anyone ever trust him? You lie down with dogs there's a pretty good chance you'll get fleas.

[TV Diva Queen]

I think I have to go back to Season One and binge the hell out of this, either that, or this show is way over my head.  What was the deal with the police fund guy?  If its too complicated to understand....I get it.  Did he turn dirty?

[txhorns79]

Quote

I don't know if "inducement to sabotage" is even a real crime.  Maybe Bryan meant entrapment?  How is it "prosecutorial misconduct" for Chuck to let Bobby learn that he had a lot of money in Ice Juice?  Chuck had no way of knowing what Axe would do with that knowledge.  He had an idea but he couldn't be sure.  He might have guessed that Bobby would try some trading maneuvers to hurt the stock, not go and literally try to make it seem like the product was tainted.

I think "inducement to sabotage" is more akin to a civil claim like tortuous interference than any criminal one.  I think you could make an argument that Chuck set out to destroy (interfere with) Axe's business and business relationships, and potentially caused him significant monetary damages.  As for Chuck, the reality of his actions are that he and his father set up Axe, violated the terms of Chuck's blind trust, baited him and then sought to cover up Chuck's involvement so as not to sabotage the criminal case or Chuck's political ambitions.  Now while Bobby doesn't know all this, I'd guess there could be enough out there to at least get discovery in a civil claim, which could lead to potential criminal charges.     

[roughing it]

11 hours ago, scrb said:

Then she got really alert as soon as Bobby told her they may only be left with $300 million.

I don't know about Lara, but I could never live on $150 million.

[FuriousStyles]

I think the legal issue with Chuck is that he had some insider info on Ice Juice?  I remember him telling Ira that he (Ira) should talk to Charles directly about getting the money so that Chuck wouldnt be involved. So much for that, right?  Not only that, but Chuck struck a deal with the other billionaire, who's name escapes me right now, to feed Axe the info about his involvement with Ice Juice. There's probably some ethical/legal issues there as well.

I was hoping when Axe made the $30 million offer, Ira had countered with $75 million or even $50 million. It just bothers me that Axe has been able to dictate what happens so easily.

And that woman Ira wants to marry? I dont even know why anyone would want to marry someone they KNOW only wants them for their money.  Ira is a smart good looking guy.  He can have his pick of women.  I just needed to see more about that woman to understand why Ira wants to marry her.

This show does a great job in highlighting that wealthy people really do  live in a completely different world from the rest of us.  $40 million is considered broke?  $300 million is not enough to live on?  

So does Wendy know that Chuck knows that she slept with that guy while they were on a break?  I left the previous episode thinking yes...as his reaction during that masochist scene was a little too much.  But IDK.  

[Lemons]

2 minutes ago, FuriousStyles said:

 

I was hoping when Axe made the $30 million offer, Ira had countered with $75 million or even $50 million. It just bothers me that Axe has been able to dictate what happens so easily.

And that woman Ira wants to marry? I dont even know why anyone would want to marry someone they KNOW only wants them for their money.  Ira is a smart good looking guy.  He can have his pick of women.  I just needed to see more about that woman to understand why Ira wants to marry her.

 

I was hoping he would counter with 1 billion and not a penny less.  30 million is nothing to creepy Axe.  Pathetically it looked like those grotesque diamond rings are what sealed the deal for Ira.  

What I don't get is how Ira can testify about Chuck without showing Axe's guilt.  

[scrb]

1 hour ago, Lemons said:

I was hoping he would counter with 1 billion and not a penny less.  30 million is nothing to creepy Axe.  Pathetically it looked like those grotesque diamond rings are what sealed the deal for Ira.  

What I don't get is how Ira can testify about Chuck without showing Axe's guilt.  

Ira was suppose to testify against Axe but he really has no way of knowing what exactly Axe did.  His civil case against Axe depends on Axe being convicted of sabotage and stock manipulation.

But Axe got Ira to throw accusations at Chuck, though he has no evidence himself to tell the prosecutors that Chuck winked at his father to go ahead and use his trust.  In fact last season, the father grudgingly signed an affidavit that he acted without Chuck's knowledge.  

So really whatever Ira claims shouldn't be taken seriously without some evidence.  Why would Ira have been privy to what went on between Chuck and his father.  But now Finnerty is ready to believe it?

 

It makes for a good story, that Ira was about to lose this supposedly great woman -- all he talked about was her soft skin -- so Bobby pounced and tempted him in his lowest moment.  BTW,  is this suppose to be some Philip Roth cliche that the big-earner Jewish lawyer's prize is the tall blond shiksa?

 

I'm no lawyer but I would think that the worst thing Chuck's role in the case could do is to show he had a vendetta against Bobby and was willing to risk his money to catch Axe.  But he didn't make Bobby do anything.  He just made sure Bobby found out that his money was on the line, pretended to stick his neck on the chopping block.

So what Bobby did is still illegal.  There's no get out of jail free card just because Chuck might have shown poor judgement.  That would become an issue as he runs for governor, that he had a personal axe to grind and went to extraordinary lengths to try to lure Axe into committing crimes.  But regardless, Bobby committed the crimes.

What should happen is Bobby should go to jail, have huge civil liabilities to the investors of Ice Juice and Chuck's political aspirations are torpedoed.  But depending on how Bobby comes across to the public -- he's this billionaire hedge fund guy who was willing to sabotage a company to hurt his adversary -- Chuck could win anyways.

Of course the show isn't going to put Bobby in jail, unless it's the way they want to end the series.

[hoodooznoodooz]

3 hours ago, FuriousStyles said:

And that woman Ira wants to marry? I dont even know why anyone would want to marry someone they KNOW only wants them for their money.  Ira is a smart good looking guy.  He can have his pick of women.  I just needed to see more about that woman to understand why Ira wants to marry her.

 

I can’t believe how angry I got watching her allow the waiter to shovel $280 worth of truffle on her pasta. 

3 hours ago, Lemons said:

Pathetically it looked like those grotesque diamond rings are what sealed the deal for Ira.  

Those were some MFing ugly rings. He might have given her the ugliest one. 

[dwmarch]

On 4/9/2018 at 11:26 AM, roughing it said:

I don't know about Lara, but I could never live on $150 million.

Neither could I but I wouldn't complain if I found it lying on the ground.

Interesting episode, the rise of the secondary players. Lots of good moments from the supporting cast. I liked Wendy giggling a bit when Maffee told her about his butt sweat. Dake was great with his shut up let's not talk about it moment with Connerty. Connerty got drunk and punched some prick who richly deserved it. Sacker's quiet fury when plotting out how to incriminate an innocent black man and her quiet joy when Chuck sets up the war room. Dollar Bill trying to motivate the troops by calling them pussies. Taylor doing the interviews. Lots of good stuff in this episode.

Are Axe and Lara actually divorcing or are they just appearing to in order to protect assets? Because if they're splitting up for real why would he tell her he's got a plan for hiding his fortune? Doing it for the kids I suppose.

Edited April 11, 2018 by dwmarch
supporting cast not case

[txhorns79]

Quote

I'm no lawyer but I would think that the worst thing Chuck's role in the case could do is to show he had a vendetta against Bobby and was willing to risk his money to catch Axe.  But he didn't make Bobby do anything.  He just made sure Bobby found out that his money was on the line, pretended to stick his neck on the chopping block.

I think the worst thing Chuck's role in the case could do is show that he acted criminally to cover up his involvement in taking down Axe.  He had his father sign a false affidavit, and made a deal with the prosecutor to hide what I think would be exculpatory evidence regarding Chuck's involvement.  Just imagine it this way, when the police or feds set up a fake plot to nab a target, they are supposed to abide by procedural checks, keep records of everything they are doing and ensure that due process is protected so as to not jeopardize the case.  In this case, Chuck did none of that.  Instead, he hatched a secret plan, has tried to hide his involvement and likely acted well outside of his authority as the US Attorney.       

[scrb]

What exculpatory evidence?

Yes the false affidavit is a big problem but it still doesn't exonerate Bobby.

 

Generally in the show, both men have hubris.  When this case gets played out in the media, I wonder which one the public would hate more.  Certainly Axe is blatantly flouting laws, not just with respect to the case but throughout his time building up his company.

Chuck wouldn't look good either, especially if his BDSM proclivities came out.  But before Axe, the show hints but doesn't show Chuck skirting the edge on other cases.

I suppose the media would play up how Chuck's wife works for Axe.  Both men would come across unsympathetically but Bobby's blatant arrogance, along with all the symbols of potentially ill-gotten wealth -- the cars, mansions, private jets -- would make him a bigger target.

[Pop Tart]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think the worst thing Chuck's role in the case could do is show that he acted criminally to cover up his involvement in taking down Axe.  He had his father sign a false affidavit, and made a deal with the prosecutor to hide what I think would be exculpatory evidence regarding Chuck's involvement.  Just imagine it this way, when the police or feds set up a fake plot to nab a target, they are supposed to abide by procedural checks, keep records of everything they are doing and ensure that due process is protected so as to not jeopardize the case.  In this case, Chuck did none of that.  Instead, he hatched a secret plan, has tried to hide his involvement and likely acted well outside of his authority as the US Attorney.       

I agree. To put it in Law and Order terms, everything that comes after Chuck setting it all up is 'fruit of the poison tree' stuff. That's not to say that Bobby didn't do criminal things or that he could never be convicted of those things, but so much of what Chuck did to set it all in motion was so dirty that any high-powered lawyer representing Bobby would be able to get most of the case tossed and what they couldn't get tossed, they could muddy so much in the eyes of the public and of a jury that I doubt Bobby would be convicted.

I want to know if the box test that Taylor was giving to the Quant? candidates can actually be put together into an actual thing? I loved everyone of those interactions with Taylor, Wags and the various candidates. And as much as I'm still pretty fascinated, episode to episode, with the power plays of Chuck and Bobby, I'm watching every episode looking for the Taylor scenes (having Wags be their foil in a lot of those scenes is just bonus!). 

22 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I think I have to go back to Season One and binge the hell out of this, either that, or this show is way over my head.  What was the deal with the police fund guy?  If its too complicated to understand....I get it.  Did he turn dirty?

You're not alone in that. I usually have to watch each episode several times before I feel like I've picked up most of the nuances - even then I don't think I get them all. And I'm okay with that because I feel like with every re-watch I pick up on things that I missed in my previous watch.

[TV Diva Queen]

15 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

I agree. To put it in Law and Order terms, everything that comes after Chuck setting it all up is 'fruit of the poison tree' stuff. That's not to say that Bobby didn't do criminal things or that he could never be convicted of those things, but so much of what Chuck did to set it all in motion was so dirty that any high-powered lawyer representing Bobby would be able to get most of the case tossed and what they couldn't get tossed, they could muddy so much in the eyes of the public and of a jury that I doubt Bobby would be convicted.

I want to know if the box test that Taylor was giving to the Quant? candidates can actually be put together into an actual thing? I loved everyone of those interactions with Taylor, Wags and the various candidates. And as much as I'm still pretty fascinated, episode to episode, with the power plays of Chuck and Bobby, I'm watching every episode looking for the Taylor scenes (having Wags be their foil in a lot of those scenes is just bonus!). 

You're not alone in that. I usually have to watch each episode several times before I feel like I've picked up most of the nuances - even then I don't think I get them all. And I'm okay with that because I feel like with every re-watch I pick up on things that I missed in my previous watch.

I actually know this answer.........the cardboard was NOT able to be turned into anything.  That was the test.  I believe the last candidate mentioned that to Taylor on his way out.  

[Pop Tart]

5 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I actually know this answer.........the cardboard was NOT able to be turned into anything.  That was the test.  I believe the last candidate mentioned that to Taylor on his way out.  

He said it to them, but from Taylor's reaction I couldn't tell if that was actually so or not. Taylor has a very good stone-face.

[TV Diva Queen]

21 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

He said it to them, but from Taylor's reaction I couldn't tell if that was actually so or not. Taylor has a very good stone-face.

I think he was right.  Taylor wanted to see how they react to it, like the other cocky guy who beat up the box with his rage.  She wasn't going to tip her hand either way (forgive my ignorance, but what pronoun do I use for Taylor)?

[Pop Tart]

6 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I think he was right.  Taylor wanted to see how they react to it, like the other cocky guy who beat up the box with his rage.  She wasn't going to tip her hand either way (forgive my ignorance, but what pronoun do I use for Taylor)?

Pronoun - "they" (neither female nor male)

[TV Diva Queen]

48 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

Pronoun - "they" (neither female nor male)

thank you.  

[Lemons]

15 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I can’t believe how angry I got watching her allow the waiter to shovel $280 worth of truffle on her pasta. 

Those were some MFing ugly rings. He might have given her the ugliest one. 

I zoomed right in on the ugly ring and knew he was going to pick it.  

[Lemons]

13 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Neither could I but I wouldn't complain if I found it lying on the ground.

Interesting episode, the rise of the secondary players. Lots of good moments from the supporting case. I liked Wendy giggling a bit when Maffee told her about his butt sweat. Dake was great with his shut up let's not talk about it moment with Connerty. Connerty got drunk and punched some prick who richly deserved it. Sacker's quiet fury when plotting out how to incriminate an innocent black man and her quiet joy when Chuck sets up the war room. Dollar Bill trying to motivate the troops by calling them pussies. Taylor doing the interviews. Lots of good stuff in this episode.

Are Axe and Lara actually divorcing or are they just appearing to in order to protect assets? Because if they're splitting up for real why would he tell her he's got a plan for hiding his fortune? Doing it for the kids I suppose.

I like the new stories about the Attorney General trying to dictate what cases to prosecute and Chuck setting up a "war room" to circumvent him.  The whole making billions of dollars and Axe's obsession with it is tiresome.

[Mierin]

On 09/04/2018 at 2:26 PM, roughing it said:

I don't know about Lara, but I could never live on $150 million.

With a good budget, I think I could live a tolerable life.

[txhorns79]

Quote

With a good budget, I think I could live a tolerable life.

In a world where having $40 million is treated as though it's on par with bankruptcy, having $150 million is likely considered the equivalent of living in the projects.  

Quote

Dake was great with his shut up let's not talk about it moment with Connerty.

I enjoyed all of that: Connerty's outrage, and Dake's embarrassment/anger. 

I also kind of enjoy Ira screwing over Chuck.  It's one of those things that's entirely deserved. 

[jvr]

On 4/10/2018 at 11:02 AM, Pop Tart said:

Pronoun - "they" (neither female nor male)

I personally don't like it because it sounds weird. I do it just to conform. :)

In academic message boards I read (PhD eggheads) they use the pronoun, Hu as in Him, Her, Hu (hus, huself). I've come to like it a lot. They do it to conceal the gender of a subject or if the gender of the person is not relevant to what they are talking about. They also use He, She, Ze. Anything is better than they or them imo. Epic fail so far by all the english language deciders. 

Once again the music stood out to me, in neither a good or bad way this time. I'm guessing their was a change made in the music department.

[Lemons]

2 hours ago, jvr said:

I personally don't like it because it sounds weird. I do it just to conform. :)

In academic message boards I read (PhD eggheads) they use the pronoun, Hu as in Him, Her, Hu (hus, huself). I've come to like it a lot. They do it to conceal the gender of a subject or if the gender of the person is not relevant to what they are talking about. They also use He, She, Ze. Anything is better than they or them imo. Epic fail so far by all the english language deciders. 

Once again the music stood out to me, in neither a good or bad way this time. I'm guessing their was a change made in the music department.

That’s a good idea. I like “huself”.   The word “they” is already taken and it means something totally different.  Its very confusing when they said something like “they will explain it” and you automatically assume it’s a group of people, not one person 

[MaryWebGirl]

On 4/9/2018 at 5:13 PM, FuriousStyles said:

And that woman Ira wants to marry? I dont even know why anyone would want to marry someone they KNOW only wants them for their money.  Ira is a smart good looking guy.  He can have his pick of women.  I just needed to see more about that woman to understand why Ira wants to marry her.

Because he wants a trophy wife so money is going to be very important to any woman Ira wants to marry. He doesn't want some girl with four roommates who shops at TJ Maxx and uses drug store skincare. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

2 hours ago, MaryWebGirl said:

Because he wants a trophy wife so money is going to be very important to any woman Ira wants to marry. He doesn't want some girl with four roommates who shops at TJ Maxx and uses drug store skincare. 

Isn’t it more impressive if he can find a woman who marries him for his intellect, humor, personality, physical appeal, etc.? 

I thought men married trophy wives if they had money only to bring to the table. Ira has a lot of good qualities, no?

Edited April 16, 2018 by hoodooznoodooz

[Anela]

I just choked. 300 million wouldn’t be enough to live on??? Fuck off.  
I’m watching, and I can’t believe that people like this exist, even though I know they do.  
lara kept talking about where they came from, and how their kids should know how to handle themselves, then looks shattered when she finds out they could be left with only 300 million dollars.  🙄 get off my TV. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Anela