S04.E16: Chapter Eighty

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Jane and Rafael find themselves in an unideal situation in order to save money. Rafael sees Alba try to punish Mateo. Xo tries to stay positive during treatment. River and Rogelio are at odds over their ideas for the show. Petra feels unsupported by JR.

Promo:

[Phebemarie]

This episode was not my favorite.   

I appreciate that they featured some realism in Xo's breast cancer fight, but...I don't know...I honestly wish the writers hadn't gone that route with her character to begin with.  I like the show the best when it's like Rogelio's telenovela:  over-the-top frothy fun.   

 Alba and Rafael's fight was another surprise twist that I didn't enjoy. 

About the only thing that worked for me was when River and Xo were watching the telenovela together with the cuts to Jane and Raphael whenever something (melo)dramatic happened.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Loved that Jane's pants and phone cover matched the turquoise walls in the new apartment.

The RIVER FIELDS photos of a river and a field totally cracked me up. Stoned Rivers was hilarious. "OMG, NO!"

Ha, loved the Hamilton shout out!

I was firmly on Rafael's side in the Alba fight. I don't care where you are, whether it's Alba's house or the park. If Mateo's parents say not to spank him, you do not get to spank him. I get the whole "my house, my rules" on principle but that doesn't give you free reign to physically abuse a child just because he's in your house. If his parents say no hitting, you don't get a pass to smack him just because he's in your house.

[Cranberry]

Yeah, I agree. I'm on Rafael's side re: spanking in general, but really, no matter anyone's personal opinion on the issue, if a kid's parents tell you not to spank their kid, you don't do it. Period.

Xo looked horrible. That's a compliment to Andrea Navedo; she's really selling this storyline. I liked her friend, although I knew she wouldn't make it. I'm glad her leftover pot brownies ended up helping River Fields discover her love of telenovelas. This episode was a little heavy, so it was nice to have that fun moment.

Still love Petra and JR. I'm hoping Petra's conflicted look at the end was just her being overwhelmed by JR giving up her career (at least partly) because of Petra, and not because she's actually hiding something.

[mrsbagnet]

I agree that Alba's "my house, my rules" defense doesn't fly, but I do think Rafael overreacted. He swooped in and pulled Mateo away like his life was in danger or like Alba was some scary monster. All that will teach Mateo is that Alba can't discipline him at all, not even verbally. Jane's measured approach was much more sensible. Because Rafael overreacted, Alba dug in her heals unnecessarily, then they have a months-long standoff that was totally unnecessary.

[AllyB]

I agree with Raf (in fact spanking a child is illegal in my country) but not how he handled it. He needed to take Matteo away from the situation, deal with how he might be feeling first and talk to Alba later. But I won't criticise him too much for acting imperfectly in the heat of the moment. The main thing I take issue with is what happened next. What was the point in moving out of Alba's house while Matteo continued to live there? If someone spanked my son and was unrepentant about it, the one consequence I can guarantee is that I would not be leaving him alone with that person again. I'd be removing the child from the situation not myself alone. That's completely counter-productive.

All in all though, regardless of Alba doing something I consider very wrong, both Jane and Raf demonstrated poor parenting in this episode. First off at the flea market. I have a 5 year old, I know what they are capable of, they have limited impulse control and limited ability to understand all the possible consequences of their actions. If my son broke an antique at a market at a point where I was sitting down having a chat with his other parent while neither of us supervised him in the slightest, that would be 100% our fault. Jane and Raf dropped the ball and it was nobody's fault but theirs that Matteo broke the antique. (Maybe the dealer bears some of the responsibility because leaving a fragile $4,000 item in easy reach of a small child at a market is a more than a bit stupid.) Jane's direct anger at Matteo for behaving like a normal unsupervised 5 year old was potentially far more damaging than a smack given in an attempt to protect him from burning himself.

[cardigirl]

I don’t know if Matteo is really portraying a normal 5 year old boy, he has been portrayed as not always well behaved, not sure why the writers chose that for this character. He drives me crazy sometimes with his behavior. I didn’t spank my children, nor did I yell at them as a means of shaping their behavior but they never acted like Matteo does, either. I’m more on Alba’s side as she saw herself saving him from burning himself. Dangerous behavior can’t always just be shrugged off. But I’m not defending either party. Matteo needs more discipline in my opinion and Rafael would do well to recognize that. 

And apparently he does not plan for his daughters to stay with him and Jane when they move in together?  Or at least Jane is not thinking about that? All the visions were of a cozy family of three. And Rafael never mentioned the girls once. 

My my favorite part was Xo and River watching the telenovella together. I liked most of this episode, except the fight. 

 

Wonder what they really have planned for Jane and Rafael’s future?  ?

[chocolatine]

On 4/14/2018 at 1:53 AM, Phebemarie said:

This episode was not my favorite.   

I appreciate that they featured some realism in Xo's breast cancer fight, but...I don't know...I honestly wish the writers hadn't gone that route with her character to begin with. 

My problem with it is that it's completely unoriginal. I've seen the storyline a million times where a woman makes a Magical Cancer Friend at chemo who is a source of comfort and wisdom, then Magical Cancer Friend suddenly dies, but not without imparting some more comfort and wisdom from beyond the grave. Usually this show can put a fun and tongue-in-cheek spin on TV tropes, but not in this case.

I thought Alba spanking Mateo was completely out of character. Until now she's always been shown as patient and level-headed. She said Mateo kept wanting to touch the hot stove, and I imagine someone like Alba would let the stove cool down a bit and then let Mateo touch it so that he can understand that a hot stove is uncomfortable without burning himself.

I like the realism of Raf not having money and finally understanding how Jane has had to scrimp and budget her entire life, but it feels like he's just treading water career-wise. He's still in the mindset that he can get one big payout that will solve all his problems. I'd rather see him take an entry-level job at a legit real estate firm and work his way up slowly than go back to the shady guy who's already screwed him over once. The "permits are taking longer than expected" story sounds like he's being screwed over again.

The scene with stoned River Fields watching telenovelas with Xo was hilarious, as was the "Green Lagoon" poster in River's office.

[tennisgurl]

I love the fact that Brooke Shields has apparently decided to become a TV character actor at this stage in her career, because she`s actually pretty hilarious. Between this show and her guest starring on The Middle, this is probably the most Brooke Shields I've ever seen, and I am not even close to mad about it. River Fields eating the pot brownie with Xo while watching a telenovella was the highlight of the episode. Especially when they started narrating the drama and cliffhanger in the Jane and Raphael story. 

Kudos to Andrea Navedo and the make up people, because I am really feeling Xos exhaustion. Yeah, I totally knew the second we met cancer friend, she was doomed. This story is good in that the actors are doing great work, and I've enjoyed how much its focused on the strength of Rogelios and Xos relationship now, and its had some really great moments. This story is bad in that I prefer my Jane as a fun, twisty telenovella, with some drama cut in here and there. The cancer stuff is just really depressing, and feels kind of out of place. I mean, they went to all the trouble of doing a time jump after Michael died (still crying over that, thanks show) so they could move on from the sadness, so why double down on it now? If they wanted more sadness, I wanted to see more of everyone's reactions to Michael's death, instead of a cancer thing. 

I think Raf really overacted to Alba spanking Mateo, but I was still on his side. Mateo is his and Jane's son, and if they dont want him spanked (as many parents dont) Alba should respect that. Yeah its her house, but its their kid! Granted, they do need to discipline him more, as he keeps running around causing trouble, but still, it doesn't have to be in a way they find inappropriate. Really, Alba is probably handling Xos cancer the worst out of everyone. Jane, Rogelio, and Raf have all been quite good about being supportive and not letting their emotions run wild, while still letting out their frustrations, while Alba is taking her frustrations out on everyone, first with Rogelio, and now with Raf. Its not that it isnt understandable, but its weird to see, as Alba is usually the voice of reason. Issues about sex notwithstanding. 

I loved when JR told Petra that she was cleared, they dropped that cheap looking confetti effect on the screen! It looked like something I would have added to a crappy power point presentation in high school! 

Edited April 15, 2018 by tennisgurl

[mrsbagnet]

Brooke Shields had her own sitcom, Suddenly Susan, for a few years in the late 90's - I can't believe that was 20 years ago. I didn't watch it regularly, but I do remember liking it. I do admire her for being willing to poke fun of herself on this show. She's always seemed down to earth, unlike River Fields.

[Simba122504]

I'm on Alba's side. But I'm not going to debate it because it's the type of subject matter that goes on forever. I liked that the writers went there with Xo's new friend Donna dying. Cancer kills many people. It's realistic. A close family friend died a few years ago. Fuck cancer. I love it when the show let its meta flag fly. I enjoy it every time. I loved the J/R scenes but things are going too good so of course something big is coming. Whatever info Rose has is not good.

[AllyB]

21 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I don’t know if Matteo is really portraying a normal 5 year old boy, he has been portrayed as not always well behaved, not sure why the writers chose that for this character.

It's a sort of cartoon characterisation to contrast with the twins who are also written as ott perfect. It's something for Jane, for all her sense of superiority over Petra, to feel like she's gotten wrong and make her doubt herself while Petra who was filled with doubt as a parent gets to feel satisfied about. But even the most well-behaved 5 year old could be liable to knock over something if left completely unsupervised in a market full of potentially interesting objects.

 

21 hours ago, cardigirl said:

And apparently he does not plan for his daughters to stay with him and Jane when they move in together?  Or at least Jane is not thinking about that? All the visions were of a cozy family of three. And Rafael never mentioned the girls once. 

I was wondering about this too, especially when Raf said the property deal could get them enough money for a 2-bed apartment. As it was all fantasy anyway it might have been nice if he'd said a 3-bed so that Anna and Ellie could have their own room in their dad's imaginary apartment. 

 

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Really, Alba is probably handling Xos cancer the worst out of everyone. Jane, Rogelio, and Raf have all been quite good about being supportive and not letting their emotions run wild, while still letting out their frustrations, while Alba is taking her frustrations out on everyone, first with Rogelio, and now with Raf. Its not that it isnt understandable, but its weird to see, as Alba is usually the voice of reason.

It's completely normal though. Xo is Alba's child and that's such a totally different kind of love. Alba's instincts will be screaming at her to protect Xo and make it better and she can't. Would Xo or Rogelio handle it so well if it was Jane who had cancer? Would Jane and Raf handle their emotions so well if it was Matteo?
 

[xander874]

Where was Matteo supposed to sleep in their new apartment? They kept saying one-bedroom and I was asking about their child. Maybe I missed that.

I haven't seen Amy Brenneman (Judging Amy shoutout) in a long while, so it was fun seeing her even if only for a couple of scenes. I know cancer plots are a dime a dozen on dramas (I rolled my eyes at Lynette's on Desperate Housewives) but everyone is doing such a good job and I like that they are really exploring how this affects the other characters. Jaime Camil was wonderful in that diner scene with Xo and the Alba/Jane scene was great too.

[marceline]

On 4/15/2018 at 7:59 PM, mrsbagnet said:

Brooke Shields had her own sitcom, Suddenly Susan, for a few years in the late 90's - I can't believe that was 20 years ago. I didn't watch it regularly, but I do remember liking it. I do admire her for being willing to poke fun of herself on this show. She's always seemed down to earth, unlike River Fields.

It's funny how they have left no part of the Brooke Shields phenomenon untouched. Her eyebrows, The Green Lagoon, even the character's name. It made me realize how amazing it is that she's such a well-adjusted adult given a lot of what did in her early career from Pretty Baby to Blue Lagoon to Endless Love.

[AllyB]

4 hours ago, xander874 said:

Where was Matteo supposed to sleep in their new apartment? They kept saying one-bedroom and I was asking about their child. Maybe I missed that.

The bedroom presumably. If it's big enough they could screen off an area for him. Where Anna and Ellie are going to sleep is less obvious. Camp beds in the main room I guess. Or possibly Jane and Raf would have a pull out bed in the main room and use the bedroom for all the kids.

[jaigurudeva]

17 hours ago, AllyB said:

The bedroom presumably. If it's big enough they could screen off an area for him. Where Anna and Ellie are going to sleep is less obvious. Camp beds in the main room I guess. Or possibly Jane and Raf would have a pull out bed in the main room and use the bedroom for all the kids.

Given how active their sex life is, the latter is probably the better solution. ? 

Okay, the Marbella has passed through more hands than a hot potato lately, but at this point it looks like Petra is at least managing it(?) So why can't she put Jane and Rafael up in a suite? If not permanently, then at least until they get financially stable and find a place of their own. It would be closer to Petra and the twins, too, and it would be nice to have Rafael spend time with his other kids as well. Petra seems practically like a single mother at times, and Elsa and Anna are Mateo's sisters, but they all seem so distant when they all get together.

I imagine Jane is going to be pretty upset learning that Rafael has been in contact with Sin Rostro behind her back. Something has to throw a monkey wrench into their relationship, because even with the brief disagreement with Alba, it's been a little too idyllic between the two of them, which is cute, but never lasts in a telenovela. The last time Jane was in such a place in a relationship, Michael dropped dead.

[betsyboo]

On 4/14/2018 at 6:29 AM, Cranberry said:

Still love Petra and JR. I'm hoping Petra's conflicted look at the end was just her being overwhelmed by JR giving up her career (at least partly) because of Petra, and not because she's actually hiding something.

Second. My heart broke with "I don't need you to pick up carpool, but I *do need my girlfriend to trust me."

On 4/15/2018 at 3:14 PM, tennisgurl said:

I love the fact that Brooke Shields has apparently decided to become a TV character actor at this stage in her career, because she`s actually pretty hilarious. Between this show and her guest starring on The Middle, this is probably the most Brooke Shields I've ever seen, and I am not even close to mad about it. River Fields eating the pot brownie with Xo while watching a telenovella was the highlight of the episode. Especially when they started narrating the drama and cliffhanger in the Jane and Raphael story.

 

YES! This!

 

On 4/17/2018 at 1:31 PM, xander874 said:

I haven't seen Amy Brenneman (Judging Amy shoutout) in a long while, so it was fun seeing her even if only for a couple of scenes. I know cancer plots are a dime a dozen on dramas (I rolled my eyes at Lynette's on Desperate Housewives) but everyone is doing such a good job and I like that they are really exploring how this affects the other characters. Jaime Camil was wonderful in that diner scene with Xo and the Alba/Jane scene was great too.

Also this!

3 hours ago, jaigurudeva said:

I imagine Jane is going to be pretty upset learning that Rafael has been in contact with Sin Rostro behind her back. Something has to throw a monkey wrench into their relationship, because even with the brief disagreement with Alba, it's been a little too idyllic between the two of them, which is cute, but never lasts in a telenovela. The last time Jane was in such a place in a relationship, Michael dropped dead.

I think ... Jane knows? Jane knows that Rose is the one with all the answers about his parents. And that Rose offered to trade those answers for Luisa's location. yes? Do i remember that correctly?

 

ETA: Random Q, but clearly I have a lot of time on my hands... Do we know what kind of birth control Raf/Jane are using? Has it been discussed? As in, I would hope/expect that Jane would INSIST on making Raf get tested before they went condom-less.

Edited April 18, 2018 by betsyboo

[PreBabylonia]

52 minutes ago, betsyboo said:

I think ... Jane knows? Jane knows that Rose is the one with all the answers about his parents. And that Rose offered to trade those answers for Luisa's location. yes? Do i remember that correctly?

That's what I remembered too, so I don't feel as if he's hiding anything. 

Xander874, if you haven't seen Amy in anything since Judging Amy, you might want to check out The Leftovers, she plays a major role. Does a good job too.

I wasn't getting any English subtitles for the Spanish dialogue for the first time, and it left me a bit confused over what was going on with Alba. Or what the fan in the hospital was saying to Ro as they stood near the elevator. Maybe that's why this is my least favourite episode in the entire series. I can usually overlook gaps in logic or blame it on the telenova premise, but I was very much surprised too that Jane let Matteo wander around the flea market area on his own. I was afraid he'd be kidnapped! And what kind of a flea market seller brings $4k items to an unsecured location like that? I really thought he was scamming them. It looked like it was worth $10, if that.

[Joana]

5 hours ago, PreBabylonia said:

I wasn't getting any English subtitles for the Spanish dialogue for the first time, and it left me a bit confused over what was going on with Alba. Or what the fan in the hospital was saying to Ro as they stood near the elevator. 

I wasn't getting English subtitles either, which I found rather strange since there was a lot of dialogue in Spanish, even more than usually. Fortunately I know the language so it wasn't a problem for me, but I had to pay extra attention.

Basically, Alba was upset over Xiomara's illness and feeling frustrated that she couldn't help her, so the whole "My house, my rules" act was her way of gaining back some control over her life. 

As for Rogelio's fan, she was very excited about the remake of "Passions of Santos" and told him she was particularly looking forward to his character finding out that his maid is actually his mother and him having amnesia, until Rogelio told her that both storylines would be getting cut out of the show - which then made him realize that making such big changes would mean altering the very essence of the telenovela genre and he wasn't going to let it happen.

The look on Petra's face when she hugged JR in the end made me uneasy. Ugh, they better not reveal she had actually murdered Anezka. 

Edited April 19, 2018 by Joana

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 4/15/2018 at 12:14 PM, tennisgurl said:

I love the fact that Brooke Shields has apparently decided to become a TV character actor at this stage in her career, because she`s actually pretty hilarious. Between this show and her guest starring on The Middle, this is probably the most Brooke Shields I've ever seen, and I am not even close to mad about it. River Fields eating the pot brownie with Xo while watching a telenovella was the highlight of the episode. Especially when they started narrating the drama and cliffhanger in the Jane and Raphael story. 

She was hilarious as Joey's stalker on Friends (which is how she ended up getting her own sitcom, Suddenly Susan)!

[SyncMaster]

On 4/14/2018 at 12:58 PM, AllyB said:

(Maybe the dealer bears some of the responsibility because leaving a fragile $4,000 item in easy reach of a small child at a market is a more than a bit stupid.)

On 4/18/2018 at 1:17 PM, PreBabylonia said:

And what kind of a flea market seller brings $4k items to an unsecured location like that? I really thought he was scamming them. It looked like it was worth $10, if that.

That is what I found to be a step less than scandalous--that such a, supposedly, high priced clock would just be plopped up on a table along an aisle with any foot traffic.  Any half drunken or clumsy adult could have knocked that crap to the ground, too.

On 4/18/2018 at 12:19 PM, betsyboo said:

Second. My heart broke with "I don't need you to pick up carpool, but I *do need my girlfriend to trust me."

YES! This!

That entire verbal exchange was excellent although I would have emphasized "girlfriend" because that, along with JR calling Petra "Baby" made it so very clear to me that they aren't just engaging in bedroom calisthenics; they are serious about one another and that is something that Petra really wanted and needed.

On 4/18/2018 at 12:19 PM, betsyboo said:

Also this!

I think ... Jane knows? Jane knows that Rose is the one with all the answers about his parents. And that Rose offered to trade those answers for Luisa's location. yes? Do i remember that correctly?

 

On 4/18/2018 at 1:17 PM, PreBabylonia said:

That's what I remembered too, so I don't feel as if he's hiding anything.

For sure, Jane knows that Rose is trying pull Luisa's location from Rafael in a selfish deal for information about Rafael's parents.

When JR met with Magda and her lawyer she was trying to catch Magda in a lie.  She did find a small one--Magda said she pushed on the bathroom door when it was the pull type--but I think a larger inconsistency was overlooked.  Magda said that during her bout of IBS she saw Petra near the front door and that when Anezka made a statement she, Magda, couldn't hear it because the toilet was running.  Assuming the toilet wasn't a super quiet model I would have expected both Anezka and Petra to have realized someone else was there though for Anezka it wouldn't have mattered much since she was pushed to the Great Beyond.

About that IBS--Petra: "Did she tell you about her bowel movements?  It's a whole big thing."

[smartymarty]

Yeah, I didn't think a "lie" about pushing or pulling a bathroom door open would be enough to turn a case. But I like your thought about the toilet flushing.