Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[kismet]

Pure speculation ~ I think they had planned in s2 to have the s4 big bad be FS's father (not sure if DD or not). Which would explain why DR made his comments about FS's father, if he had been given info but then the plans changed. But as s3 played out they realized that it was going to be too close to TQ/MM. Also with the warm reception of MamaSmoak, I think they wanted to have more of a recurring dynamic. And if PapaSmoak is the big bad he would need to be killed. Considering OQ's feelings about killing long-lost paternal figures, I'm glad they changed their minds. It would be too repetitive to have another parent as the big bad. We did that with MM & MQ (to an extent). Plus until OQ finishes his FB origin journey, I think the big bads should either be connected to OQ or just randomly attacking SC.

 

So I’m not sure how much restructuring of s4 they had to do, because I feel like they dropped the idea of PapaSmoak as Big Bad by the summer. I feel like the moving up of the Palmer Tech presentation has more to do with the reception of some s4 plot lines. I believe that they thought the BMD would go over better, so perhaps they had to move the presentation up because they need to clear up space in the end of the season to resolve that. Also I think once they went ahead with the paralysis story, it became too predictable that the 6mo presentation would be about her walking. Or perhaps they have decided to resolve it with a non-science/non-tech route because it makes it more realistic. Funny, but a magical cure or spontaneous recoevery is somehow more realistic to me, since medical accuracy is not something they do well.

 

As for the him, I do think they are using it to set up the Big Bad for s5. I’m just not convinced its MM. Part of me thinks they want to hold onto him as a potential Big Bad for the final season. That being said, it does seem like he is being written to be a villain again. Perhaps they will “kill” him in s5 and then bring him back in the final season. I think a lot of is going to be dependent on whether they plan on going beyond s6/7, whatever SA is currently locked into. I can't imagine them getting of JB while they still have SA under contract. The Dark Archer is supposed to be the GA arch-enemy, so why would they get rid of him in s5, if the show is set to go for a few more years.

[apinknightmare]

I don't understand the 'Final Destination' idea.

 

It's what Barry said about the timeline readjusting itself?  How would that even work?  Would someone who was killed in the previous timeline die in this one?  Would someone who survived before be killed die now?  What would be the decision rule?

 

And do the writers even remember that this idea exist?

 

 

It doesn't have anything to do with what Barry said. It's something (I believe, I can't remember and don't have time to go back and find the interview this morning) Andrew Kreisberg said in a post-crossover interview about the consequences of powers/time travel/undoing death and how when you die, the universe wants you to stay dead, and if that doesn't happen, you pay the price for it. Obviously everyone who died in the original timeline can't die, or else there wouldn't be a show anymore. In trying to "decode" those comments, I thought it might be possible that the show was going to have everyone from Arrow who died in the first timeline have a near-death in the second timeline just to tease us about who's in that freaking grave until one death finally sticks. 

 

 

But considering they all died, wouldn't they all have to die to set things straight? In the Final Destination movies most of them died. And if you didn't die, or had a near miss, death still comes back around to get you.

Why should only one person die?

 

 

Yes, but if they all die, we wouldn't have a show anymore. ;)

Edited February 12, 2016 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

I don't remember all the details of the interview. But if I were to decode a little of this season and people's relationship to death. BM, William, Alex, Nyssa or any other cop out is not really part of this death evening out the score thing.

 

TQ has cheated death twice in the last 2 seasons, but has never taken from death. So death may lurk but I don't think it will take her just yet. Also, I cannot see how the show would kill off OQ only living adult blood relative, when blood it so important to them.

 

Dig, MM & QL have killed people in the line of duty, but they have only given to death. They have not taken from it, so what score would death be trying to even out.

 

LL has robbed death of one its residents. And to me that would seem like something death might be trying to right. A death for a death, a life for a life. LL by resurrecting her sister may have signed her own death warrant.

 

I know people say that LL/BC cannot be in the grave for a variety of reasons. But if we are looking at people's relationship to death, LL is the only one that has stolen something away from death. Therefore death might be trying to even the score with her death. All the others died in an alternative timeline, but so did most of CC, so death might be a little preoccupied at the moment to bother to fix all the AU death balances. I know I don't want to get my hopes up, but if I am decoding between the lines, the fact that LL is the only cast member on the show that has stolen from death, she is the only one with a legitimate balance to pay off in all timelines. Plus, she was the only one that had a deja vu moment, another nudge that Death may have already made her different from the others.

[apinknightmare]

I'm not Kreisberg, obviously, but I *think* the point of his statement was that everyone who died in the original timeline is supposed to be dead - it's the natural order of things. So since Barry undid that by running back in time, the universe is going to try to "right" things. It's stupid, and doesn't exactly make sense because we all know ultimately they all aren't going to bite it, but in relation to the grave scene teased at the end of ep 1, I think they want everyone to have their "turn" at being a suspect. Felicity was almost killed by Darhk, Thea nearly died from the effects of the Lazarus Pit. Seems like Oliver, Diggle, and Laurel are going to have their turn coming up, too. Not sure if the show is going to have one of those stick (Diggle or Laurel, since we know Oliver isn't it), or if it's going to cycle through all of them and then have Lance or someone else who didn't die in the original timeline (one of the characters we saw on screen) be the grave dweller. 

 

Or maybe the theory is totally wrong and they won't tease anyone else before the big reveal.

Edited February 12, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Primal Slayer]

I think Sara coming back to life souless was basically the price. She had a near empty vessel on her hands.

[apinknightmare]

I found the quote I was thinking of, from this interview: 

 

 

The key to pulling off an effective death, according to Kreisberg, is “consequences. When Sara was brought back, when Thea was brought back, last year when Barry changed the timeline, this year when Barry changes the timeline, any of these things that feel like the right thing to do, there’s always a price to be paid, and whether or not that price gets paid immediately … or whether that price gets paid later on in ways that you don’t foresee, it always comes back to haunt you,” he noted. “We always talk about, on ‘Legends,’ Vandal is the Big Bad, but truly the Big Bad is time itself. Time wants to go in one direction, and I think that ethos… When people die, the universe wants them to stay dead. Anything you do to change that is going to have a cost. And that’s what these shows are, these characters constantly paying that price. For as much as these powers and abilities and technologies that they have, there’s always a price to be paid for using them.”

 

 

Since Oliver told Laurel about Barry's time travel for absolutely no in-show reason whatsoever, I'm guessing it's somehow a factor in what's going on in the show, since they felt the need to remind us about that. 

Edited February 12, 2016 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

Whoever dies for real really needs to kick it by means of a grandfather's clock whacking them on the head.

[apinknightmare]

Whoever dies for real really needs to kick it by means of a grandfather's clock whacking them on the head.

 

Tempus fugit. Literally!

[SonofaBiscuit]

I think Sara coming back to life souless was basically the price. She had a near empty vessel on her hands.

 

Soulless Sara was the price Laurel had to pay for the undoing of the timeline?  Good lord, I hope she suffers more than that.  Felicity was sprayed with bullets and ended up paralyzed, and Thea nearly died for refusing to satisfy her bloodlust by murdering random folks.  We know that 

Oliver will be badly injured at some point later in the season

.  I would hope that Teflon Laurel's consequences would actually involve something bad happening to her (not her dad, or her sister, but her), but this is Laurel we're talking about...so maybe not. 

 

And now that I think about it, didn't all of the Sara stuff happen before Barry showed up?  I think it did, so I guess something bad is coming for Laurel soon.

Edited February 12, 2016 by SonofaBiscuit

[Orion]

It's still to small of a sample size but there could be a pattern establishing that they are going in reverse order of when people died in the crossover.

Original timeline: Oliver, Laurel, Diggle, Thea, Felicity.

New timeline: Felicity, Thea ...

[Chaser]

I think Sara coming back to life souless was basically the price. She had a near empty vessel on her hands.

This made me LOL.

 

It's so Laurel. Sara lost her soul and became a feral creature, but what about how Laurel feels?!

 

I think that's the way the show played it too.

[dtissagirl]

It's even Laurel-er when we remember Sara's thinking of herself a monster on LoT. Very consequences, such Laurel.

[wonderwall]

It's even Laurel-er when we remember Sara's thinking of herself a monster on LoT. Very consequences, such Laurel.

Wait, I thought Laurel told Nyssa that Sara was good? Oh wait, Laurel probably doesn't care. She's the one who learned about Sara's scars only to ditch her to go comfort Oliver which (???)....

Edited February 12, 2016 by wonderwall

[Primal Slayer]

Sara has thought herself a monster since s2 so that isn't entirely new, Laurel has always tried to remind her that she isn't.

[tv echo]

I don't get that "final destination" theory because it only seems to apply to the Arrow characters.  What about the Flash and LoT characters who were also killed in the original timeline and saved by Barry's time travel?  Shouldn't they also get near death experiences on their shows as well?  Oh right, Arrow is the only show allowed to go dark and have its hero suffer consequences.

Edited February 12, 2016 by tv echo

[tarotx]

Carter's dead. Kendra nearly died. I think they are the only LOT Characters. 

[apinknightmare]

I don't get that "final destination" theory because it only seems to apply to the Arrow characters.  What about the Flash and LoT characters who were also killed in the original timeline and saved by Barry's time travel?  Shouldn't they also get near death experiences on their shows as well?  Oh right, Arrow is the only show allowed to go dark and have its hero suffer consequences.

 

No. Because I'm fairly certain that the whole point of the near-death experiences is to tease who's in the grave, and none of those other shows had a flash-forward death reveal.

[tarotx]

Did we see Cisco and Caitlin die in the Original time line? I know they were there but did we see it? I don't want to rewatch the episode to get my own answer :p

[tv echo]

I completely forgot about Hawkman's death!  I guess that's how forgettable he was...

 

Caitlin definitely died and I think it was implied that everyone at the farm died (including Cisco):

Edited February 12, 2016 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Basically The Flash changes time, but Arrow pays the price for it.

[statsgirl]

It was Oliver's turn to say "Run, Barry, run."   (I start giggling every time I hear that because of the book "See Spot run. Run, Spot, run.")

This is pure speculation but I wonder if they started to plan the season with DD as Felicity's father, but then realised it would be too much like Thea/MM especially if they wanted to make Malcolm the villain again.

From what David Ramsey said, that once we knew who Felicity's father is we'd understand where she got her brains, I get the feeling it was always going to be The Calculator.  They may have planned to make him the Big Bad of s4, or maybe a later season.  But I'm getting tired of the women's fathers who are the Big Bads.  Are we going to meet Slade's daughter next?  (I knew he has a son in the comics but here it's always daughters.)

 

LL has robbed death of one its residents. And to me that would seem like something death might be trying to right. A death for a death, a life for a life. LL by resurrecting her sister may have signed her own death warrant.

That makes a lot of sense.  I don't have any faith that they put that much thought into it though.  It's "let's tease a different death each time" for plotty plot purposes.

 

 

It's so Laurel. Sara lost her soul and became a feral creature, but what about how Laurel feels?!

I've always thought since s1 that Laurel might have been better received if they gave her real consequences for her actions instead of excusing or minimizing them in-show.

Edited February 12, 2016 by statsgirl

[Starfish35]

Slade does have a daughter in the comics, Rose Wilson.

[ComicFan777]

In the comics, Slade had two sons and one daughter - so you never know - if his daughter might show up.  I think his son Joe Wilson has been mentioned on the show twice. 

Edited February 12, 2016 by ComicFan777

[kismet]

If Rose Wilson came back as a season's BigBad - would that be to on point for the show with their metaphoric patterns?

 

It would finally be a female Big Bad. And it would finally allow the daughter to do right by the Father and just become evil like them. Mission accomplished x2.

[nksarmi]

Ok but when Flash changed the timeline EVERYBODY in the city died - I mean, what kind of price are we talking there?  I think AK is kind of bsing with the whole "there a price to pay" crap - kind of like there's a price to magic over on Once.  Anyway....it's probably as simple as this:

 

Barry's price for saving the city from the tidal wave in season one?  He jumped the gun when it came to Iris and she rejected him.

Thea's price to pay for being pitted - blood lust (notice it is HER price to pay - not Oliver's)

Sara's price to pay - bloodlust

Barry's price for saving everyone the second time around? Well I got nothing, but we're paying the price because he probably spurred the baby momma lie.

 

They want to talk about how there is a price to pay when you cheat death, but really - not so much.  They are really just blowing sunshine up dark places to try to explain away why they bring some people back and not others.

[ComicFan777]

I figured that the price for saving Central City from being destroyed was the world apocalypse unleashed by Savage after Malcolm revived him, so instead of a city being destroyed the world is destroyed for Barry going back in time.  I thought that's what Legends was launched to do - to save the world from the consequence of Barry's time travel incident.  Maybe not?

[Carrie Ann]

I think there's a misunderstanding here when it comes to this Final Destination theory. It doesn't have to apply to LoT or The Flash because this time change didn't happen on their shows. The crossovers are canon for all shows, yes, but those shows don't have a flash-forward grave hanging over them to add fun "tension" to the season. Maybe AK was referring to TF and LoT too, but as he was talking about Arrow in his quote, we're only talking about Final Destination here as it applies to Arrow.

 

So, the concept is that on Arrow, the team members who were present and died in the first timeline will face near-death experiences as ~Time~ tries to correct for the interference, but presumably all will survive except for whoever is in the grave (who may not have even been present in CC because they could just be collateral damage) (ahem, Quentin).

 

Will that happen to the team members from TF and LoT who appeared on the crossover? It could, but doesn't necessarily have to, in order for it to still be accurate w/r/t Arrow. BTW, no one is stating this as fact, since we're just inferring from what an EP said. It's just a fun thing that does seem to be playing out so far.

 

(As an aside: I do think it's likely that all of Central City will come close to destruction this season, because that's what happens on these shows, so that would fulfill that side of things if AK/TF writers feel it necessary to do that.)

Edited February 12, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[statsgirl]

I really really hope that Felicity's father doesn't become the Big Bad for next season or any other.

 

As soon as a father becomes the Big Bad,  he's Oliver's issue, not the daughter's.  Look at Nyssa and especially Thea, both sidelined in what should have been their own stories because Oliver is the one to deal with Malcolm and Ra's.  Felicity, on the other hand, was allowed to deal with The Calculator herself because he was only a VotW.

 

Long may Felicity be allowed to be the active participant in her own story.

[BkWurm1]

I've been wondering that myself. Of course, they might just focus on him two or three episodes before they kill him off. *shrug*

The other thing, though, that has made me wonder about it being Quentin....I was initially assuming "him" was DD. Now I'm thinking it's probably MM. Not that Malcolm isn't perfectly capable of killing Quentin, but the motivation isn't there like it was set up with Darhk.

I'm still leaning toward it being Quentin, just because I won't get lucky enough for it to be Laurel, and it being Diggle is unthinkable. But it doesn't quite seem to fit as well as it did before.

You know, it could be that MM doesn't deliver the death blow, but just is the reason for it.  What if he goes back to DD and offers more insider information, say like the ADA is the Black Canary.  Then no matter who actually kills Quentin or Laurel (hey, dare to dream), Malcolm would still be the "him" in need of killing because he was now systematically handing the team over for execution. 

[EmilyBettFan]

I think Sara coming back to life souless was basically the price. She had a near empty vessel on her hands.

So basically another consequence for Sara and Laurel has no consequences.

[tv echo]

I know a lot of people are hoping that Laurel is the one in the grave, but be careful what you wish for, guys.  There are worse things they could do (sorry, I have Grease on the brain).  Consider this...

 

If Laurel is the one in the grave (which I still don't think is the case), then maybe it's because the EPs have decided to add BM & son to the regular cast next season.(*)  (This could be announced at SDCC 2016, with AH making a surprise appearance.) 

 

(* Maybe the reason they didn't know for sure who would be in the grave at the beginning of the season was because they were still negotiating with AH's agent.)

 

Possible scenario: Samantha and William move to Star City over the summer hiatus.  Oliver & Felicity are still broken up.  Oliver struggles with juggling time with his little 'family' and his GA duties and with whether to reveal his GA identity to Samantha.  Or maybe he struggles with whether to give up GA vigilante-ing altogether in order to protect his son.  In flashbacks, Oliver meets a Bratva member with a young son who's considering getting out of the business.  Oliver betrays this member in order to protect Bratva and finds favor with the head Bratva guy, thus earning a position in Bratva (and completing his journey to the dark side).

 

In addition, in an epic, game-changing shocker, we find out that Samantha has a metahuman ability (after all, she was living in Central City during the Star Labs explosion). So, by the end of S5, she becomes another well-known DC superhero and gets a mask.

 

Hey, it's not as if Anna Hopkins has any other projects lined up right now, according to her IMDB page.

Edited February 13, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

Please tell me every episode of S5 in that scenario is William trying to reenact The Parent Trap, and I'd be down for it.

[kismet]

I know a lot of people are hoping that Laurel is the one in the grave, but be careful what you wish for, guys.  There are worse things they could do (sorry, I have Grease on the brain).  Consider this...

 

If Laurel is the one in the grave (which I still don't think is the case), then maybe it's because the EPs have decided to add BM & son to the regular cast next season.(*)  (This could be announced at SDCC 2016, with AH making a surprise appearance.) 

 

(* Maybe the reason they didn't know for sure who would be in the grave at the beginning of the season was because they were still negotiating with AH's agent.)

 

Possible scenario: Samantha and William move to Star City over the summer hiatus.  Oliver & Felicity are still broken up.  Oliver struggles with juggling time with his little 'family' and his GA duties and with whether to reveal his GA identity to Samantha.  Or maybe he struggles with whether to give up GA vigilante-ing altogether in order to protect his son.  In flashbacks, Oliver meets a Bratva member with a young son who's considering getting out of the business.  Oliver betrays this member in order to protect Bratva and finds favor with the head Bratva guy, thus earning a position in Bratva (and completing his journey to the dark side).

 

In addition, in an epic, game-changing shocker, we find out that Samantha has a metahuman ability (after all, she was living in Central City during the Star Labs explosion). So, by the end of S5, she becomes another well-known DC superhero and gets a mask.

 

Hey, it's not as if Anna Hopkins has any other projects lined up right now, according to her IMDB page.

All I can say is

 

Here I was just dreading the potential divorce mumbo jumbo for dramatic purposes. You brought it to a whole other fear level :(

Edited February 13, 2016 by kismet

[statsgirl]

Possible scenario: Samantha and William move to Star City over the summer hiatus.  Oliver & Felicity are still broken up.  Oliver struggles with juggling time with his little 'family' and his GA duties and with whether to reveal his GA identity to Samantha.  Or maybe he struggles with whether to give up GA vigilante-ing altogether in order to protect his son.  In flashbacks, Oliver meets a Bratva member with a young son who's considering getting out of the business.  Oliver betrays this member in order to protect Bratva and finds favor with the head Bratva guy, thus earning a position in Bratva (and completing his journey to the dark side).

 

In addition, in an epic, game-changing shocker, we find out that Samantha has a metahuman ability (after all, she was living in Central City during the Star Labs explosion). So, by the end of S5, she becomes another well-known DC superhero and gets a mask.

I know that murder is against the law. What's the penalty for deliberating killing a show?

[Sunshine]

Thanks @TVEcho, my fear with the idea of Laurel dying was that if LOT doesn't get a S2 they would bring Sara back.  I know some would welcome that but since my reasons for watching are Oliver/Felicity/Diggle it wouldn't appeal to me for her to be back.  I did wonder if they were looking at Anna as a regular but was hoping not. (Don't want or need the kid around on a regular basis.) 

[lexicon]

I know that murder is against the law. What's the penalty for deliberating killing a show?

 

Cancellation

[lemotomato]

I don't think the EPs are at the point where they're making solid plans for season 5 yet. I mean, vague promises of hopefully bringing back Felicity's dad is very different from planning to hire the BM actress as a recurring guest star.

[kes0704]

Possible scenario: Samantha and William move to Star City over the summer hiatus.  Oliver & Felicity are still broken up.  Oliver struggles with juggling time with his little 'family' and his GA duties and with whether to reveal his GA identity to Samantha.  Or maybe he struggles with whether to give up GA vigilante-ing altogether in order to protect his son.  In flashbacks, Oliver meets a Bratva member with a young son who's considering getting out of the business.  Oliver betrays this member in order to protect Bratva and finds favor with the head Bratva guy, thus earning a position in Bratva (and completing his journey to the dark side).

 

In addition, in an epic, game-changing shocker, we find out that Samantha has a metahuman ability (after all, she was living in Central City during the Star Labs explosion). So, by the end of S5, she becomes another well-known DC superhero and gets a mask.

I'm really quite fond of Stephen Amell but not enough to keep me watching Arrow if this scenario was ever to play at out.

I would, however, get a great deal of amusement out of seeing him try to explain and sell this scenario to fans. He's having enough trouble trying to keep people invested with the BM story as it stands now.

[kismet]

People were talking about the magical rock from nowhere in the episode thread & then the FB digging was mentioned in the spoiler section.... and all of this has led me to believe that we have hit s3-4 of LOST. That point in the series where the writers don't want to tie up too many storylines because they are not sure how many seasons they are going to have. They also don't want to burn through too many ideas, but have established themselves as a fast paced show they does plow through ideas. So they are in a jam.... cue the random note theme song...

 

Because its almost inspiring to rewatch LOST, because I think the writers are harvesting their FB stories from that show. We got Flash Fwds this year, may we please never get flash sideways, the timeline resets are enough to deal with. We've already seen a hatch. Poppy reminds and annoys me as much as Nikki & Paulo. Perhaps her fate is to

be buried alive

as well after they find the magical items, which I'm betting might be diamonds if they keep on LOST's trend. We've already been introduced to random new inhabitants on the island from nowhere. Namaste random people. I half expect Polar Bears to start running from the bushes. Perhaps the Smoke Monster will make an appearance. And I bet money OQ finds a bunker by the end of his time there that requires him to press a button & has stashes of canned food. I also can't wait until the time when the island is explained to be purgatory by 3 random guest stars in one on the final episodes of the series via a board game. In the s4 finale, I'm thinking OQ might take FS to the island to reconnect and also so she can get back her ability to walk.  

 

I kid and yet I really don't.

[Ann Mack]

I really think the risk of cancellation would be extremely high. The problem is they have set the bar so high for the love story that is Oliver and Felicity that any new female or male star coming in and trying to be their significant other will be met with a lot of fan resistance. There will be some who would remain faithful to the show if this is the course the show pursued I however would not be one of them.

 

The show probably should have thought long and hard about putting Oliver and Felicity together and giving them such a beautiful love story IF the intent was to ever introduce new people for either of them to be romantically involved with. Seriously, how does your last vision before death be the woman you love and then have another woman try to live up to that standard of love? Many fans are too invested in Oliver and Felicity to ever accept different mates for them IMO.

 

The show says they go with what works but its unfortunate they don't know what works for its audience if they try a new pairing IMO. I recall one of them in a tweet talking about the dailies and chemistry between Stephen and Anna I'm sure they are the only ones seeing it. Cause when I look at those 2 all I see is some lying ass woman who kept the knowledge Oliver had a kid from him for 9 years. The writers would have to be idiots (sometimes I'm convinced they are) to try and build a love story around Oliver and Samantha instead of working to find a path for Oliver back to Felicity.

 

Let's just hope nothing like that happens!

[BkWurm1]

The show says they go with what works but its unfortunate they don't know what works for its audience if they try a new pairing IMO. I recall one of them in a tweet talking about the dailies and chemistry between Stephen and Anna I'm sure they are the only ones seeing it. Cause when I look at those 2 all I see is some lying ass woman who kept the knowledge Oliver had a kid from him for 9 years. The writers would have to be idiots (sometimes I'm convinced they are) to try and build a love story around Oliver and Samantha instead of working to find a path for Oliver back to Felicity.

 

One doesn't exclude the other.  Ray doesn't have to be the only ship stall.  

 

I am not looking forward to episodes 15-20 and right now am playing out some pretty awful scenarios for what happens if they don't reunite Oliver and Felicity before the end of the season (assuming she dumps him once the BMD comes to light).  I try to tell myself that if that happens, it just means that next season would be building up to reunite them and I do believe that, but while Oliver might be trying to make something work even though his heart isn't in it, they likely also would have Felicity trying the same thing so that they could decide that they can go back to being friends since they are so happy with their current SO and the thought of having to sit through that makes me both gag and want to curl up and whimper. 

 

The back half of the season does not do good things to my optimism.  I need to remember that at this exact time last year I was wavering on if they had any intentions of doing anything more than just tease us with the lure of Olicity without ever following through.  But boy howdy did they follow through.  Right now my fears are stronger than my hopes but again, that's where I was last year and that turned out beautifully. 

[tangerine95]

lol way to make Laurel dying into a negative thing.I was thinking more along the lines of she dies and like Mama Smoak is promoted to regular or Lyla gets to appear more.Not to even mention the solving of the overcrowded team problem,maybe Felicity/Digg/Thea actually get to interact,we never have to deal with Lance drama,Oliver is less sidelined in action scenes, even more screentime for other characters,never again having to witness the anti chemistry at work when Oliver and Laurel are forced to interact etc.

I do think those things are way more likely than them deciding to make another one of Oliver's horrible unpopular ex hook ups a regular especially if they just got rid of one.I honestly don't see the kid or BM ever getting that much focus,I think this season is the most they will get and they're still barely characters.I really expect them to just be offscreen 99% of the time next season.I would be really suprised of the EPs are dumb enough to give them anything bigger enen with the dumb stuff they have done before.That would be a new level of dumb.

[tv echo]

Sorry, guys - I read somewhere that if you give voice to your fear, it'll kill it...

 

As for S5, I've already started compiling a spoilers list for next season (very short so far), but here's the non-spoilery one:

-- MG: "We’ve reached the point in the season where, yes, we organically start talking about ideas for the next season.  We’ve got some interesting ones for 5!" (MG 02/06/16 tumblr post, page 31 of Spoilers thread)

Edited February 14, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

I think every time MG uses the word "organic" and variations thereof, it just means he's eating a Whole Foods salad while talking about the show.

[Morrigan2575]

I honestly don't think he knows what organic storytelling means

[looptab]

BTW, I don't remember any of the writers or producers talk about the chemistry between Anna Hopkins and Stephen. I just remember that tweet by Brian Ford Sullivan (or was it Guggenheim?) about watching the dailies, but they were talking about "feels", and I'm pretty sure they were referring just to the fact that that scene involved an Oliver who had just found out he had a son and didn't know, and was freaking out/half crying/about to do something really dumb.

Edited February 14, 2016 by looptab

[bijoux]

I think the tweet was complimentary to her as well. And frankly, her performance was competent, I can't fault the actress. It's just that the character is non-sensical and unlikable. 

[tv echo]

-- Per Brian Ford Sullivan, MG came into the room and told him "you have to watch these Oliver/Samantha dailies right now!" BFS: "So many feels." (BFS tweet, page 812 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

 

Incidentally, in one of the other threads, there was a link to an Emmys interview with WM about how she's a big fan of Raven (Teen Titans) and how that character is worthy of being on Arrow or her own series.  So I have to wonder if they'll try to work an adult version of Raven into S5 somehow.

Edited February 14, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

I think the tweet was complimentary to her as well. And frankly, her performance was competent, I can't fault the actress. It's just that the character is non-sensical and unlikable. 

Oh, sure, I am not faulting the actress at all. And, yeah, they were complimenting her as well, but I honestly think that the feels they were referring to were just of the "look how emotional this scene is" variety. :)

[DeadZeus]

Bleh i just hope S5 features better action scenes, like S2.. Those were amazing and varied, S4 is extremely bland in that regard and i can't think of a reason why? Just boring hand to hand combat and little variation in arrows being shot. My favorite fight from S2 is when Sara and Oliver switch weapons... soo good....

And very bad story decisions like Sara not confronting Thea and forgiving her or something  :S

 

But for me personally the bland action scenes are killing my enjoyment. Especially when i have S2 pretty fresh on my mind. It bothers me alot.