Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[dtissagirl]

My main problem with the Babymama storyline is that the reveal would be a trillion times more interesting if Moira was still around. Alas.

[kismet]

 

*lurker de-lurks*

 

ETA: I screwed up the quote tags and it won't let me fix it--my replies are for some reason embedded in the quote. Sorry. Newb error.

 

Nice thought... but I'm pretty sure the Jitters girl is the same one he impregnated in the flashbacks of Arrow s2. Believe it might have been the same actress, unless she has a twin too.

 

I agree, she was the BabyMama and I believe played by the same actress. They made a point of her calling her child on her phone after she finished talking to Oliver to drive it home.

 

If she is not Sandra Hawke, but IS a character with a comics background, she could be

 

Bonnie King and her daughter Cissie, both AKA Arrowette. Bonnie in the comics was sort of a Green Arrow fangirl. Now, formally, Cissie King-Jones is not supposed to be Oliver's daughter but rather of a guy codenamed "Bowstring", but a popular fan theory is she is really Ollie's daughter as Bonnie dated Ollie.  Interestingly, IIRC despite her skillset, Cissie was never tied to Team Arrow but was instead a member of Young Justice.

 

 

Which brings me to my really far-fetched speculation of the moment ~ do we think that Mai could be one of the eventual baby OQ MamaDramas? Didn't OQ & Shado have a kid in the comics? I feel like the gotcha of showing Mai in the fb could be more than just having an apartment for the triad to blow up and a way to show FB OQ finally taking a shower. I wouldn't put it past the writers to swap one comic destiny from sister to sister. Imagine the possibilities if they are twins?!?

 

In the comics Shado

was an assassin who raped Oliver. She did get pregnant and gave birth to Robert Queen Jr. (I think this is from the "Longbow Hunters" story.)

 

While it's possible they may decide to make Mei into Robert Jr's mother it would be under very different circumstances than in the comics if it happens as you describe. Although I don't think we've seen the last of Mei--I don't think she would have been introduced as a one-shot for no reason--so something like that could also happen down the line.

 

 

 

I hate when the editing buttons get all messed up. I esp. find it hard to fix on the mobile version. Its so frustrating.

 

Anyway, I have no idea how they would write a possible Mai/OQ child. I just thought she might have child, if the writers were inclined to push the limits. But perhaps they have another purpose for her character.

 

I enjoyed your speculation & spoiler on the JittersMama. That may be how the writers choose to take her character. This way the child can be OQ or it could be not. They have flexibility on storylines.

 

Honestly, I feel like there is so much going on in s4 that I hope they keep the possible OQ love child for another season. I don't mind if they continue to drop hints here & there. To really tackle the issue I think it should be in later seasons, where his child can actually have a role on the show. Not just be some drama/angst inducing plot twist. But if JittersMama's baby is not OQ, then they can just settle that plot in s4. I just want that plot to disappear or not have long consequences. Even if they age up the child, they can't go much beyond late childhood/preteen and I just don't see how a child that age can fit into Arrow. Young children, yes. Adult children, yes. But late childhood/pre-teen children are just such a drag on so many shows.

Edited June 3, 2015 by kismet

[statsgirl]

I was just listening to a radio discussion about the anger at Emma Stone being cast as a half-Asian in Aloha and I think the EPs would want to avoid any hint of that in terms of Sandra Hawke and the very Caucasian actress who plays Oliver's babymama.  (As an aside, it was a stupid decisions, it's not like there aren't a lot of half Asian actresses around, like Katrina Law, Chloe Bennett or Kristin Kreuk.)

 

I think it would be way too complicated to make Mei another mother of Oliver's child.  He barely knows her, he was in love with her sister and now he's left Hong Kong. Unless they meet up in Russia somehow, it's unlikely.

Human trafficking is a relevant social justice issue that needs attention. It is dark but its also a serious issue. I think Arrow could handle it. They need to do something with some realistic gravitas after the existential angst that filled this season. But Im optimistic at this point in the season for thd writing. Ive also watched too many snippets of Law &Order SVU this month at work- that show is always on. So my head is floating in horrific crimes. It just feels like it would be a good fit, especially if they're trying to figure out something to do with LL/BC.
[snip]
Question- what are people's thoughts about what he did for Bratva? If not trafficking than what? I can't see him involved in drug trade. I guess he could be hired assassin/muscle, but that's boring.

Today I have more specific limits on how dark I want the show to go.  Yesterday the Truth and Reconciliation Committee report came out in Canada and I had to turn off the radio when I heard some of the testimony of the survivors at what the church-run schools did to those young children.  I think if a show is going to do an important storyline it should be real, but that kind of stuff is too real for me to watch.

 

Present-day taking down a human trafficking ring that Laurel has stumbled up, or been given the heads up by Sara?  I'm all for it.  Flashback Oliver involved in human trafficking -- absolutely not.

 

I think he might be an assassin. During S3 (maybe "The Offer"?), OQ responds to FS's question about how he could even consider joining the LoA with "I've been an assassin." At the time, I thought we would see him be an assassin during S4 or S5 flashbacks because I don't think we've seen him in that role yet in any season's flashbacks.

I like the idea of Oliver as an assassin.  Somehow he ends up in Russia, he meets Anatoly who makes good on his promise to teach him Russian from s2 and also introduces him into the Bratva. Oliver ties back his hair (having refused to cut it until the Starling City team wins the cup), becomes an assassin, and with his cold-blooded killing and his leadership skills (which we've all seen), he quickly rises in the ranks of the Bratva to command. Then something happens near the end of s5 flashbacks that makes him decide to return to Lian Yu and from there to Starling City.

 

My only question is.... how can they going to take him seriously with that beard that we saw in the pilot?

[Balaclava]

In real life, the Bratva is definitely involved in human trafficking for sexual purposes.  My point is that I don't want or expect the show to have Oliver involved in human trafficking for sexual purposes.  He is supposed to be a superhero, and there are not a lot of superheroes who have condoned/assisted in the gang rape of women and children.  Also, so far the show has pretty much folded every time it had the chance to take Oliver to a particularly dark place (which again, I am happy about...I was furious when I thought they were going to have him brainwashed in three weeks, bc he has never been portrayed as either evil or weak-minded...luckily for me it turned out he was faking).  I mean, people bring up early S1 a LOT, but what did he do in early S1 that was really so bad?  If they wanted to go that dark with him they could have had him kill Tommy when Tommy witnessed him kill the guys who kidnapped them.  Oliver killed a bunch of bad guys in S1.  So does pretty much every action movie hero. 

 

I didn't said at any point that i wanted Oliver involved in human trafficking, all i said is i wouldn't be surprised if he came into contact with it.

I don't think either that what he did in S1 was that bad, but i also acknowledge that he was a different Oliver that he is now, probably because in S1 he wouldn't think twice about killing someone, and i also don't have a problem with Oliver killing bad guys.

 

On another note, Oliver assassinated at least one person in Hong Kong, the old guy who turned out to be Fyers' handler.  He also tortured a couple guys and (probably) killed them afterwards, which I'd count as assassinations.  That's not to say there won't be more in S4, but once you assassinate one person you're pretty much an assassin.

 

"Honestly i'm expecting Oliver to go a lot darker in the flashbacks, at some point he became a killer, and if something transformed him into that, my money is on Bravta."

 

Oliver has been "a killer" since S1 flashbacks.  He killed AT LEAST one of Fyers' men, probably more, and he killed Fyers.  In S2 flashbacks he killed a bunch of Ivo's men, and Ivo.  He thought he killed Slade.  In S3 flashbacks he killed Fyers' handler, Thea's drug dealer, a couple guys he tortured for Waller, and I think quite a few of that general's men (I didn't watch any episodes bw 9 and 23, so I'm probably missing some).  In terms of his willingness to kill bad guys in present day S1, he's there in FB S3.  All he really needs is more skills and tattoos/scars, as he's there in terms of his mindset.  Re becoming a Bratva captain, we know Anatoly is pretty high up in the hierarchy, and they were fairly close in S2 flashbacks, plus Oliver arguably saved his life then and may save it again.  If Anatoly is a pakhan, which seems likely, saving his life would probably be pretty much enough to make Oliver a captain.

 

He does need more skills and a darker mindset imo,to be the type of killer he was in S1,to me there's a difference between being willing to kill and kill easily.He didn't give a **** in S1

So far in the flashbacks i didn't see nothing that relevant (regarding killing) besides the fact that he was trying to survive tbh

 

Anatoly is the Pakhan (or at least that's what was said), there's only one of those, and i agree that saving is life would be enough to make him a captain if Anatoly would want too, but being a captain means, like i said, leading a group of men and you don't get respect from the men in russian mafia by sitting around and playing cards.

I do know that this is a show and it's not the real Bratva, nonetheless some things need to be there to make it credible, and again i'm not talking about Oliver doing human trafficking but i wont be surprised if the show goes there with the Bratva story line, not Oliver specifically  

 

 

[AyChihuahua]

"I didn't said at any point that i wanted Oliver involved in human trafficking, all i said is i wouldn't be surprised if he came into contact with it.

I don't think either that what he did in S1 was that bad, but i also acknowledge that he was a different Oliver that he is now, probably because in S1 he wouldn't think twice about killing someone, and i also don't have a problem with Oliver killing bad guys."

 

I think we're arguing different points.  I don't care what the Bratva is involved with in either flashbacks or present day.  I simply do not want, or expect, Oliver to be involved with human trafficking or murdering kids or anything like that.  About the darkest I can see them going is maybe having him kill a basically okay guy, like a shop owner with a debt or a crusading Russian attorney or some such.  I doubt they'll even go there, but it's possible.  And I think I'll just agree to disagree re flashback S3 Oliver and present day S1 Oliver.  He didn't seem any more torn up about killing bad guys by the end of S3 flashbacks than he was in S1 to me.  He didn't even kill the main bad guy in the first episode, Adam Hunt.   

[catahoulamama]

While I understand some viewers would like to see them tackle the human trafficking subject on Arrow, I'd prefer they didn't. Yes, it's an important and relevant issue today, but TBH, I watch shows like Arrow and Flash for escapism from the ugly and real issues of life in the 21st century. Plus, this show tends to use a broad brush with just about everything, so IMO, that topic is better suited to grittier, more reality based criminal justice shows.

[BkWurm1]

was just listening to a radio discussion about the anger at Emma Stone being cast as a half-Asian in Aloha

 

I don't get the anger directed at actors.  Be mad at the casting people or the producers but the actors aren't at fault for taking a job. Most of the time would an actor even be aware of a character's ethnicity in a I assume book or biography before they get the part and start doing deep research. 

 

My only question is.... how can they going to take him seriously with that beard that we saw in the pilot?

 

Herbs. Magic hair growing herbs.  Later he will remember them and they will be the source of restoring his fortune. 

[kismet]

While I understand some viewers would like to see them tackle the human trafficking subject on Arrow, I'd prefer they didn't. Yes, it's an important and relevant issue today, but TBH, I watch shows like Arrow and Flash for escapism from the ugly and real issues of life in the 21st century. Plus, this show tends to use a broad brush with just about everything, so IMO, that topic is better suited to grittier, more reality based criminal justice shows.

Fair enough point. Agree to disagree. Although it is nice to have some shows for escapism, that's a good reason to watch TV, have a few shows of those myself. Perhaps I'm betting too much on the show. But their broad strokes do worry me should they choose to delve into more serious issues. They do lack the finesse to deal with certain sensitivities. So perhaps I will just although my mind to wonder to the possibilities that could be if they learned to tackle serious issues with a sensitive touch. Its the hiatus though, so here's to hoping for the best. Its certainly better than worrying about all the ways they can mess things up.

Edited June 3, 2015 by kismet

[statsgirl]

I don't get the anger directed at actors.  Be mad at the casting people or the producers but the actors aren't at fault for taking a job.

I wrote "the anger at Emma Stone being cast".  The scorn was directed at Cameron Crowe and the studio who wanted a big name for a movie that already had Bradley Cooper, Bill Murray and Rachel McAdams who should have been enough star power to get people to watch even if the female lead had been a relative unknown.

 

On the whole, it may be a better decision to give Oliver's babymama a different name and avoid the burden of comic book canon.

 

But I still hope it's a boy.  Felicity should be the premier woman in his life.

[BkWurm1]

I

wrote "the anger at Emma Stone being cast".  The scorn was directed at Cameron Crowe and the studio who wanted a big name for a movie that already had Bradley Cooper, Bill Murray and Rachel McAdams who should have been enough star power to get people to watch even if the female lead had been a relative unknown.

 

Sure.  I wasn't just responding to what you wrote.  I've seen backlash on the actors many times before.  The reverse seems to be happening over Supergirl having a black Jimmy Olsen. 

 

But I still hope it's a boy.  Felicity should be the premier woman in his life.

 

For now at least.  I can't help but want him to have a sweet baby girl to spoil and shower with his golden smiles somewhere in the future...probably because SA could really sell it. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by BkWurm1

[jay741982]

I wrote "the anger at Emma Stone being cast".  The scorn was directed at Cameron Crowe and the studio who wanted a big name for a movie that already had Bradley Cooper, Bill Murray and Rachel McAdams who should have been enough star power to get people to watch even if the female lead had been a relative unknown.

 

On the whole, it may be a better decision to give Oliver's babymama a different name and avoid the burden of comic book canon.

 

But I still hope it's a boy.  Felicity should be the premier woman in his life.

I hope it's a boy as well. It can be a girl when it's Oliver and Felicitys Child together

[foreverevolving]

But I believe they did point out that her name is Sandra Hawke... didn't the file Moira was reading from while threatening/bribing her had her name on it? I feel like we talked about this last year on TWoP and someone confirmed it, even posted a caption of it.

Edited June 4, 2015 by foreverevolving

[quarks]

But I believe they did point out that her name is Sandra Hawke... didn't the file Moira was reading from while threatening/bribing her had her name on it? I feel like we talked about this last year on TWoP and someone confirmed it, even posted a caption of it.

 

What we got was the Italian dub, which apparently uses "Sandra." I'm not entirely sure how much we can read into this - I haven't seen/heard the Italian dub, but both the Spanish dub and the Latino subtitles change a few minor things here and there.

[tv echo]

From the Behind the Mask thread, DR's comment:

-At the beginning of the season they fight together to protect the city minus Oliver and Felicity.

I previously was thinking that 4x01 would have Sara turn up alive in the last two minutes of the episode, to parallel 3x01 where she was killed in the last two minutes of that episode.  But now I'm thinking that maybe Oliver and Felicity turn up in SC in the last few minutes of 4x01.  I really hope that they aren't absent completely from 4x01.

Edited June 8, 2015 by tv echo

[tarotx]

Oh Oliver and Fecility will be on Olicity's island episode one. Some thing Will call them back but we'll get a couple vacation moments.

[Ceylon5]

I've been thinking that if they're so married to their flashbacks and can't give them up, they could at least mix them up a bit and have some of them be to things that happened during the 5 months we'll be missing out on.  Oliver could make some comment that gets a reaction from Felicity and they could flash back to some conversation or event from the missing 5 months to show what's causing her to react like that.  Or Felicity could ask about a new scar Thea's sporting and we'd get a flashback to how she got it.  They could also use it to explain what went on at Palmer Tech after the explosion and give some build-up to whatever is going to happen with Felicity's role there next season.  Also, it would mean we wouldn't completely miss out on the beginning of Oliver and Felicity's relationship, which seems a bit of a crock after all the crap they put us through to get them together.  They can keep their timeline and still give us the good stuff.  A classic example of having one's cake and eating it too.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Ceylon5

[kismet]

I am concerned though that increased Dig & FS together time will result in more angst in s4 & less of the family dynamic we saw in s1&2 (parts of 3). The fact that DR knows a lot about FSs father & I believe said in the Paris Con that he was linked to Andy makes me very nervous for what the writers will do. If they do want to make that angst connection & somehow link it Andy, I hope they do not dwell in it for the entire season. The angst bothered me a little in s3, but what bothered me more was the fact that they continued to drag out the angst and not move the story. And when they did move the plot, they just repeated the same drama/angst over again. I don't want that in s4. I want the story to move & the angst to be resolved rather than fester uselessly for an entire season.

 

Honestly, I was surprised by the dramatic reaction Diggle had to the whole Lyla kidnapping and the fact that it lasted for multiple episodes. I'm beginning to think that there is part of Diggle's character that myself & perhaps other audience members have not seen yet. I always thought he was someone that could separate the mission from his emotions. But the Lyla kidnapping he can't seem to see beyond his emotions, he also can't seem to let it go either. I get that he was mad, but when OQ pulls you out of cell in NP to update you on the plan, at least try to focus on that convo & not berate him for choices already made.

 

I remember they referenced that Dig was not able to let his brother's death go either for the longest time. I wonder if that will come into play with Dig & FS. If somehow his emotions regarding Andy & her father will be something that will cloud their relationship. Likewise, it will become something he can't let go easily. Dig seems like he holds emotional grudges for people indirectly & directly responsible for hurting him (which is something new about his character for me). If I am making predictions & bets, I would say that it is going to be OQ that needs to bring FS & Dig back together. I thought it might be FS that helps reconcile OQ & Dig, but I think that will be Lyla now. But in his free time, I think Dig will discover or be told stuff about FS's father and Andy that will further shatter TA & create a major discord with FS that may take awhile to repair.

[tv echo]

We're assuming that Felicity's father and Andy will be on opposite sides.  What if the EPs surprise us and make Andy a bad guy or her father a good guy, putting them both on the same side?  What if Andy is alive?

 

ETA:  Andy Diggle was played by Eugene Byrd in "The Return".  He's an actor/producer with a pretty lengthy resume - deserving of more than a one-episode cameo:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0126021/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t233

Edited June 8, 2015 by tv echo

[tarotx]

Lyla's kidnapping was just Diggle's last straw. It broke him that Oliver never trust him and put his family at risk. The work puts the family at risk. It shouldn't be friends.

[Ceylon5]

I can't see Diggle holding something that Felicity's father might have done against Felicity.  That would just be weird.  She's not responsible for the things her relations have done, especially estranged relations who abandoned her as a little kid.  They would have to really contort the plot and characters (which, unfortunately, is well within their capabilities) to make something like that pit Felicity and Diggle against each other.

[kismet]

Lyla's kidnapping was just Diggle's last straw. It broke him that Oliver never trust him and put his family at risk. The work puts the family at risk. It shouldn't be friends.

True. I know we all have had convos about Dig's reactions in other threads, so I don't want to repeat some of the awesome points we have all mentioned from all perspectives. I'm just saying his reaction to the kidnapping was different than what I was expecting and showed me a different side of Diggle.

 

I'm wondering how Diggle is going to fare in s4, because I think he is the most morally black & white character on the show (QL being a close 2nd). And I feel like s4 is going to become very morally grey with the introductions of HIVE, Mr. Smoak, Andy & wherever they take the FB. Every other major Arrow character is morally grey. They each have their own sliding scale or balance of what needs to be done, should have been done and what will be done to exact justice, bring home a loved one and solve a problem. Diggle has always been the Jiminy Cricket of TA bringing his wisdom & morally sound advice to the team. But I wonder what's going to happen when the answers are not as black & white. The way they are setting up HIVE to me seems like we will be dealing with a whole lot of grey decisions morally, even more so than Argus. I wonder too how it will all relate to him getting his identity concealment.

[tarotx]

It won't be at Felicity for a father she doesn't know. I think s4 Diggle will grow even more mad at Oliver for not telling him Damian Darhk at least had alleged HIVE ties.

[kismet]

I can't see Diggle holding something that Felicity's father might have done against Felicity.  That would just be weird.  She's not responsible for the things her relations have done, especially estranged relations who abandoned her as a little kid.  They would have to really contort the plot and characters (which, unfortunately, is well within their capabilities) to make something like that pit Felicity and Diggle against each other.

But I can see them having different reactions to the revelations and that being what creates the tension/fracture between them. I don't see Diggle holding what Mr.Smoak did in the past against FS. But depending on her reaction & relationship to him in the present, I can see them having some realistic tension as a result of that. I think FS is going to be in a very challenging place with how to proceed whenever her father and his former/current actions are revealed.

 

For those of Alias fans, I think its going to be similar to some of the tension we saw between Sydney/Nadia/Sloan & Sydney/Irina/Vaughn; maybe a little amped up at times. A person may love their friend, but looking beyond what the parent did to another loved one can be very challenging. Likewise, whatever someone's parents did and even if they abandoned them, at the end of the day they are still the person's parent. And the person trying to process that & all the evil the parent did can be very straining on the relationships, esp if they were responsible for hurting loved ones of people you care about. The psychology of child/parent can be very powerful & dynamic, even when the actual child/parent relationship is very damaged & harmful.

[tarotx]

If Lyla does become head of Argus that will mess with Diggle's morality as well. Will Lyla be able to get the job done as well being a white knight or will she be forced to do dark things? I expect the later.

[Sunshine]

Will Lyla as head of ARGUS be addressed in show (actual arc) or will it simply be a reference for where they get some of their resources?

[apinknightmare]

This Lyla/ARGUS thing is a mess. Why did they have her quit and be all morally confused over it if she was just going to go back? She did quit, didn't she? Because somehow she was still using ARGUS resources after the fact and that was never addressed. 

[tarotx]

We don't know yet. The last we heard she quit Argus so it should be addressed. Until it was mentioned at the con this weekend I wouldn't even assume Argus would be mentioned until after the Suicide Squad movie was released.

Will Lyla as head of ARGUS be addressed in show (actual arc) or will it simply be a reference for where they get some of their resources?

[Sunshine]

This Lyla/ARGUS thing is a mess. Why did they have her quit and be all morally confused over it if she was just going to go back? She did quit, didn't she? Because somehow she was still using ARGUS resources after the fact and that was never addressed. 

 

She did quit but used her contacts in 3.19 to find a "killer" for Roy.  I think Diggle also went to her for intel in 3.23.  They probably forgot she left ARGUS. Maybe she went back because Waller was relieved of duty? Although I can't imagine why (in-story) that would happen now.  Afterall, at the end of S2 she was going to bomb a US city of 500,000+.  It might happen out-of-show if AMA is more available than CAR and they have tied Lyla to Diggle so ARGUS helping out Team Arrow would make more sense.   I guess the would still need CAR for flashbacks though unless there is no ARGUS in S4FB.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Sunshine

[apinknightmare]

She did quit but used her contacts in 3.19 to find a "killer" for Roy.  I think Diggle also went to her for intel in 3.23.  They probably forgot she left ARGUS. Maybe she went back because Waller was relieved of duty? 

 

Barry went to her for info over on The Flash twice after she quit, IIRC. It didn't make sense to have her quit at all, really. 

[Sunshine]

Barry went to her for info over on The Flash twice after she quit, IIRC. It didn't make sense to have her quit at all, really. 

This is true.  It's also why there was a lot of speculation about her being the floater between the shows.  Roy could appear on all 3 without being the floater that ties them all together.  Lyla OTOH might be anchored in Arrow (because of Diggle & daughter) but on assignment for ARGUS elsewhere or simply referenced by the other shows like Cisco did this year.  It makes more sense (to me anyway) that  she would help out.   I don't think Waller would.

[kismet]

Maybe she decided to quit field work and take up a more permanent leadership/management role that would keep her safer & closer to her daughter. I could see her giving her resignation to Waller and then Waller countering with this amazing offer to keep her at Argus. I wonder if it will be addressed in the comics, since that seems to be a place to put  (or dump if Im being cynical) pertinent facts that inform the story.

 

Anyway I have a feeling the floater is gonna wind up being not as important a physical role, but rather perhaps a name of person people just throw around to exchange information. So using Lyla or Roy's name may be the perfect solution.

[statsgirl]

Being like Leon Vance in NCIS?  He pops up on NCIS:LA and NCIS:NO occasionally but he is based on the mothership.

 

 

I've been thinking that if they're so married to their flashbacks and can't give them up, they could at least mix them up a bit and have some of them be to things that happened during the 5 months we'll be missing out on.  

The do seem married to the idea of the flashbacks being "five years previously" though.  Felicity's were five years earlier and probably  Diggle's from s1 and 2 as well, although thinking about it, Malcolm's were much earlier, but that may have been because they had to be for storytelling purposes..

[Ceylon5]

The do seem married to the idea of the flashbacks being "five years previously" though.  Felicity's were five years earlier and probably  Diggle's from s1 and 2 as well, although thinking about it, Malcolm's were much earlier, but that may have been because they had to be for storytelling purposes..

 

Well, they did Thea's flashbacks last season to what she and Malcolm did over the hiatus, so they do have a precedent for it.

 

I'm suddenly wanting a He Said, She Said flashback now, where Oliver is telling the others something (via flashback) and Felicity then looks at him like he's crazy and says, "That's not how it happened at all!", and then we get her (different) version of events.  Begone, oh depressing storylines, and give me some funny stuff to make amends for last year.

[tv echo]

Will Lyla as head of ARGUS be addressed in show (actual arc) or will it simply be a reference for where they get some of their resources?

As kismet said, it'll probably be addressed in the Season 3.5 comics... to be released by MG in 2017 (yes, that's sarcasm).

[Genki]

Well, they did Thea's flashbacks last season to what she and Malcolm did over the hiatus, so they do have a precedent for it.

 

I'm suddenly wanting a He Said, She Said flashback now, where Oliver is telling the others something (via flashback) and Felicity then looks at him like he's crazy and says, "That's not how it happened at all!", and then we get her (different) version of events.  Begone, oh depressing storylines, and give me some funny stuff to make amends for last year.

 

I would love this, my favourite X-Files episode ever was this type of narrative.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Genki

[AyChihuahua]

I would love this, my favourite X-Files episode ever was this type of narrative.

Supernatural did a GREAT episode like this.  The first Trickster/Gabriel episode.  It was hilarious!

[tennisgurl]

They could even do flash forwards, if they wanted to go full on Lost on us. Or, they could do an alternate universe flashback, where we see what everything would be like of Ollie never got on the Island? I would love that, actually. Kind of Its a Wonderful Arrow.  

[Password]

I shudder to think what Oliver would be like if the Gambit didn't sink. But this show is so caught up in its past a flash forward would be fun and interesting.

[calliope1975]

They could even do flash forwards, if they wanted to go full on Lost on us. Or, they could do an alternate universe flashback, where we see what everything would be like of Ollie never got on the Island? I would love that, actually. Kind of Its a Wonderful Arrow.  

 

I would actually love to see that. Have it be a Christmas "What If?" episode. I think they could have a lot of fun with that.

[AyChihuahua]

I would actually love to see that. Have it be a Christmas "What If?" episode. I think they could have a lot of fun with that.

I bet they will do that at some point.  It's so trope-y (which isn't an insult, tropes are tropes for a reason).  The potential for Douche!Ollie is high.  Not sure Laurel would come off that great, though, as she'd presumably be the long-suffering cheated-on martyr wife in that scenario.

[foreverevolving]

I'd like to think that at such a scenario Ollie would have been lucky enough to meet Felicity slightly earlier in the timeline, when his parents decided that maybe a 5t college was worth a shot, in Boston; I'm sure any Boston located college would have been "happy" to accept Oliver to its ranks... that is after they saw the fat ass number on the check check, for the brand new wing/building - named after a dead Queen family member - Robert & Moira would have donated...

 

Those fanfics are always the most awesome ones.. lol.

[kismet]

They could even do flash forwards, if they wanted to go full on Lost on us. Or, they could do an alternate universe flashback, where we see what everything would be like of Ollie never got on the Island? I would love that, actually. Kind of Its a Wonderful Arrow.  

Cue the Holiday crossover now... Those holiday what-ifs could be kinda fun. Also good way to bring back any guest actors willing to come on that were killed in previous seasons.

 

So long as they don't go flash sideways on us that was when Lost really got lost for me, pun intended.

[kismet]

I'd like to think that at such a scenario Ollie would have been lucky enough to meet Felicity slightly earlier in the timeline, when his parents decided that maybe a 5t college was worth a shot, in Boston; I'm sure any Boston located college would have been "happy" to accept Oliver to its ranks... that is after they saw the fat ass number on the check check, for the brand new wing/building - named after a dead Queen family member - Robert & Moira would have donated...

 

Those fanfics are always the most awesome ones.. lol.

It would be fun if they shot on location in Boston for day... but I would not be that fortunate. SA already teased singing the Canadian Anthem this Saturday @ the Red Sox, but I don't think that is gonna happen.

 

Side question - Did they ever list which Ivys or high end universities, OQ dropped out of? Or is that a licensing thing. I know some Universities are not willing to allow their names to be used, while others have no problem lending their names (although I'm sure they collect a pretty fee from the rights of the episode)

[BkWurm1]

I bet they will do that at some point.  It's so trope-y (which isn't an insult, tropes are tropes for a reason).  The potential for Douche!Ollie is high.  Not sure Laurel would come off that great, though, as she'd presumably be the long-suffering cheated-on martyr wife in that scenario.

 

Laurel probably would be the long-suffering cheated-on alcoholic martyr wife in that scenario.  Slade and his mirikuru soldiers wouldn't have come around so Anna would be alive and there would be no ATOM.  Also, Tommy would be alive.  Bad news, Malcolm probably would have gotten away with his undertaking plan, maybe even making Moira his fall guy.  To make it even worse, she commits suicide rather than wait around on death row. Quentin would be a detective but no rising the ranks since he never has to step up to the challenge of the Hood.  He's alone because his wife still left him saying he worked too much (he got wrapped up in the Dollmaker case just the same as before) and he's estranged from Laurel since he still hates Oliver.  Sara is alive but not the same awesome person we know.  She's a shallow party girl that mooches off daddy but is never around so he's lonely.   

 

On a happier note, maybe Robert would come back after having been stuck on the island (only it takes him longer since he's older)  Downside, he tries to play vigilante only to be shot by the police.  Roy would be officially alive, downside, he'd be in prison for a series of petty crimes.  Thea will seem fine but during the episode die of a drug overdose.  Diggle would have grown bitter and closed off after Andy's death and nothing would have reached him to pull him out of that guilt spiral.  No baby Sara. No happy marriage -actually, Lyla died in a Russian prison.  Diggle would have had a break down of some sort.  Felicity would still be working in the IT department, no frends, isolated, not even talking to her mother.  Has a lot of cats. Upside, still no scars. (not saying that's her reasonable outcome, but a one our writers would likely chose.)  Or maybe she's great and dating Tommy. 

Edited June 9, 2015 by BkWurm1

[foreverevolving]

Felicity would still be working in the IT department, no frends, isolated, not even talking to her mother.  Has a lot of cats. Upside, still no scars. (not saying that's her reasonable outcome, but a one our writers would likely chose.)  Or maybe she's great and dating Tommy. 

Can we please stop promoting that idiotic (may I say misogynic) stereotype that being an isolated, friendless woman must mean you also have lots of cats... it's disgusting. And I am not blaming you, I am just freakin tired of always seeing those two things being connected, especially in regards to women.

 

I'm going back to my chocolate.

[AyChihuahua]

Ooh, dating Tommy, dating Tommy!  I love me some Flommy fic!

 

I basically agree with you, except that I think Malcolm had The Undertaking set up pretty well for no one to know it was anything other than a natural disaster.  He killed everyone who knew there even was an earthquake machine, and wiped the files.  So unless Moira spilled the beans (which I doubt she would), I think she'd be in the clear.  She's also, like her son, a champion compartmentalizer, so I think she'd be quasi-okay.  The Walter/Felicity stuff would still happen, though, so Walter would either be dead or still held by Malcolm, and I always thought Felicity was in some danger with all that stuff (after all, the last guy Walter had look into it ended up dead, and Walter ended up kidnapped), so she could be dead.  That would really shake Oliver.

 

I'm not sure Thea would have gotten too deep into drugs if Oliver hadn't "died."  He was a douchenozzle, but seemingly a pretty decent big brother.  And she has a core of strength...I think she might have been okay. 

[lemotomato]

(Sorry, but I can't stand Flommy. I can't put my finger on why, because I can see Oliver/Tommy on the show, and I've read Oliver/Tommy/Felicity fic that I've enjoyed, but Flommy itself just doesn't work for me.)

I agree with most of the hypothetical Ollie-verse theories, except that I think Lyla wouldn't be dead in Russia because she never went there to help Digg look for Deadshot. Robert would still be dead because he would've gotten caught up in what was happening on the island. And Thea might still have substance abuse issues because even though Ollie would have been around to be her big brother, the way he was living would have set a bad example for her.

Edited June 10, 2015 by lemotomato

[Chaser]

I still want my holiday episode. Lights and fireplaces and mistletoe and snow. Something heart warming and slightly cheesy (like The Ho Ho Ho Job on Leverage). Ending in an intimate family/friends dinner with plenty of laughter and Bing Cosby playing in the background. 

[foreverevolving]

I still want my holiday episode. Lights and fireplaces and mistletoe and snow. Something heart warming and slightly cheesy (like The Ho Ho Ho Job on Leverage). Ending in an intimate family/friends dinner with plenty of laughter and Bing Cosby playing in the background. 

Actually, one of things I love most about Arrow is the absolute lack of holiday episodes. I usually hate holiday episodes, they almost always feel fake and far too cheesy (and not the good kind).

[wonderwall]

I'm not a fan of holiday episodes either, but I definitely would like to see the mid-season finale end where Oliver/Felicity/Thea go to Diggle/Lyla's for a Christmas/Hannukah dinner and where we get a really good Diggle/Oliver moment where they bury the hatchet and really good Diggle/Felicity, Thea/Felicity, Lyla/Oliver, Lyla/Diggle, Lyla/Thea, and Thea/Oliver moments. Also I need Oliver to interact with Sara :p That would be amazing! 

Edited June 10, 2015 by wonderwall