Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Genki]

At the very least Felicity's Dad would need to be some sort of genius, it was implied by Donna that he was super smart.

If they were clever they would introduce him as an ambiguous character neither hero of villain, he could be a comic character, but they should hold off on the reveal. Therefore if they tied him to the Bratva it could be unclear if he was there becaused he was forced to be there or if it is by choice. This could also tie into the reasons he walked out on Felicity & Donna.

[wonderwall]

I really would like Felicity's father to be an anti hero. A man with loose morals, who lets the ends justify the means, who is probably just as shady as Waller and could give her a run for her money. I wouldn't mind it if this guy felt that the Arrow was detrimental to the city and tries to take him down through whichever means. That would be a pretty cool layer for season 4s arc.

 

All I know is, I want Felicity's father to be a part of the main storyline. I don't want it to be removed from the whole story that it's basically its own separate show/a bottle episode.

[BunsenBurner]

I want Laurel's character to die. She has become Black Canary, she doesn't need to be on Arrow any more. There are many Black Canaries someone else could take her place. Or, she and Ray can fall madly in love and both move on to the new series. Sara could then come by occasionally and appear on Arrow.

[kismet]

I think Felicity's father being ambigious in terms of good/bad is the best way to introduce him. That way we won't know whether he chose to leave his family or he was forced too. He definitely should just not be some regular guy. There are so many options for them, I hope they do have it be part of a whole season or 1/2season arc to fully do it justice. There are a lot of examples on previous TV shows & comics where it can be done very well.... they did achieve this with Moira in S1 where you did wonder what side she was on. I do not have a preference if he is connected to a possible Bratva storyline or not. But if they do connect him to Bratva, I hope that he never interacted w/ OQ before & is not necessarily familiar with him. It might overwhelm the story if OQ has a direct previous connection/relationship w/ OQ, esp if the father is more villain than hero. There can be too much interconnecting in the past, esp w/ flashback shows. Not everyone has to have a shared past, just because you show flashbacks.

Edited March 3, 2015 by kismet

[tv echo]

I saw some interview from MG and AK, I think, about "Nyssa's journey" and I just sat there thinking, "WTF?" I mean, I like Nyssa just fine. But before you give somebody like her a journey, why don't you give us a little bit more on Felicity and Diggle? Goodness gracious! I really don't give a flying eff about these other characters who are not even regulars. I desperately hope TPTB start getting over with this fascination with costumed extra characters. They can't even juggle stories for the cast they have, and now I'm getting another character's effing journey? Seriously? I agree, cut the cast down to essentials and focus on them. Let other characters come in but THEY should be serving the primary casts' journeys, not the other way around.

This got me speculating wildly... If Ra's al Ghul is more a title than an individual's name (such that he can assign it to a successor), this could start a trend on the show.  Black Canary could also be a title/moniker that is passed from Sara to Laurel - to Nyssa or Thea?  (Same with Green Arrow in the future.)

 

Maybe they're going to make Nyssa a regular cast member next season.

[tv echo]

Since Season 3 is the season where Oliver is celibate, then maybe the EPs will have Oliver get involved in multiple women in Season 4 (to switch it up).  Only it won't be the womanizing Oliver from before.  This time, he could be seeking to balance his life by entering into a stable relationship.  So he goes from one relationship to another, trying to find the one that makes him happy.  But in typical Oliver fashion, he fails repeatedly.  In addition to bringing back McKenna (which MG has said is something they talk about), there's his Baby Mama.  Maybe Oliver tries a relationship with her just for the sake of trying to be a father to his son.  Or the EPs could introduce new characters to the show.

 

As for Felicity and Laurel, if both are still considered endgame possibilities - Felicity could be unavailable to him romantically next season for some stupid contrived plot reason.  Although the "because comics" fans want Laurel and Oliver to reunite, it probably wouldn't be this soon (if ever).  But I could see the EPs doing a wink at the comics by having Oliver and Laurel go undercover as a married couple for some stupid contrived plot reason.

Edited March 3, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

Since Season 3 is the season where Oliver is celibate, then maybe the EPs will have Oliver get involved in multiple women in Season 4 (to switch it up).  Only it won't be the womanizing Oliver from before.  This time, he could be seeking to balance his life by entering into a stable relationship.  So he goes from one relationship to another, trying to find the one that makes him happy.  But in typical Oliver fashion, he fails repeatedly.  In addition to bringing back McKenna (which MG has said is something they talk about), there's his Baby Mama.  Maybe Oliver tries a relationship with her just for the sake of trying to be a father to his son.  Or the EPs could introduce new characters to the show.

 

As for Felicity and Laurel, if both are still considered endgame possibilities - Felicity could be unavailable to him romantically next season for some stupid contrived plot reason.  Although the "because comics" fans want Laurel and Oliver to reunite, it probably wouldn't be this soon (if ever).  But I could see the EPs doing a wink at the comics by having Oliver and Laurel go undercover as a married couple for some stupid contrived plot reason.

It is a possibility. I don't put it past he EPs to try to do that. Doubt they'll being McKenna back, but that has more to do with actress availability. Huntress too is committed to a new show so she might be hard to get too. The interesting thing about SA comments and about OQ in general since he returned from the island, is that IMO he was not that much of a womanizer. He played the field, but with the exception of Isabel they never really showed him sleeping with everything that moves. Its perfectly fine that he dated multiple women, its what people his age do. He didn't just sleep around, every female he slept with he tried to pursue a relationship with, except Isabel (which he admitted was for intense purposes a one night stand). Perhaps, he tried to jump into relationships too soon, but that is par for the course considering his emotional stunting pre & post island. They did imply that he hooked up with some females during s1 when he ruined the naming ceremony, but that seemed like more of cover than anything else.

 

Him sleeping with every available major female star & guest star that was not related to him was more for plot than characterization. I never saw him as a playboy, just a serial monogamist bouncing from ill-fitting relationship to ill-fitting relationship, like most guys his age. The ironic part is that the only female he hasn't slept with has been Felicity. I appreciate SA's desire to make OQ a more committed man, it seems he was hoping that OQ would find some emotional stability in an actual relationship that lasts beyond a few episodes. That is admirable goal. And on a TV show, that can generally only happen with a regular cast member for budget & logistic purpose. SL is not an option due to 301. Which leaves LL or FS, I feel like the writers could go either way, but that they would head down the FS path before LL again. I think OQs current celibacy is two-fold. First, I think that he truly loves FS and so he is honoring that by not sleeping with other females. When you really care about someone, sleeping with other people just isn't something you necessarily want to do - esp considering OQ's conquests pre-island. He's trying to be a different person than he was before the island. Second, I also think that OQ is shutting down OQ on all personal avenues. Since he pushed away FS romantically, he committed more strongly to the Arrow & finding SL's killer - which then lead him to protecting Thea and all the other decisions that lead him to NPx2. He really hasn't made time outside of these duties to do anything else even remotely like a personal life, he's been all business. His visit to CC & Barry was the only thing he did outside of business. And in that episode he spent his down time with Felicity. The only other relationship he's pursued has been reestablishing his relationship with his sister (best part of season this season) which is good, and is indicative that he is not completely given up on being OQ. But like others have mentioned, all the lighter & funner more human moments have been stripped from the show. Moira & Tommy helped to bring that dimension to the screen, since their deaths its just been all darkness & angst for OQ. Its one of the reasons this season has been so stark, there's no balance for OQ. He needs to have some type of life outside of the foundry.

 

The writers never really gave us playboy billionaire OQ. Every episode that showed him living like a playboy, it was just a cover for his Arrow duties. So perhaps the writers do want to go down that path. But I feel like they will have to do something to OQ to make him different. Since returning from the island, OQ has been trying to be either Arrow or the reformed OQ. He's never really shown a desire to return to his womanizing/partying ways. Perhaps something will happen in the end of the season that will make OQ revert back to his womanizer ways, but I think it will have to be something like an aftereffect/ side effect to something bad that happens. A near death appearance didn't make him revert to pre-island OQ, so it'll depend on what they have in store for us in back end of season. But Im guessing if OQ does become Ras, it might have some dire consequences perhaps some long-term and most likely mental. His personality could be altered by the processes or steps required to become Ras. It might not be as easy for him to come back from his decision to be Ras once he undergoes the journey to get there. S4 could then focus on bringing OQ back as a person, not just back to SC. This could organically stall any relationship w/ FS since I can't see them being together if he's not really OQ. So we might have OQ return to SC, but just not as OQ that we know now. It would be an interesting & logical way for them to change up OQ's story to make him revert to being a playboy & superhero at the same time. Not sure if I would prefer it over OQ in a committed relationship w/ FS. But then again, I would prefer that over them repeating how they kept them apart this season.

Edited March 3, 2015 by kismet

[KirkB]

I think there is a significant difference between Oliver Queen and the character he is most often compared to, Bruce Wayne. At least the show version, I am less familiar with the comics version of OQ. On the show Oliver spent half his life as a full on hedonist. He blew mommy and daddy's money on drugs, alcohol and partying while sleeping with every woman he could get a hold of. Then his life went to hell. He realized he needed to change his ways and make up for the stuff he and his dad had done in the past. He maintained his free wheeling party animal persona around family and friends because that was what they expected, while really focusing on saving the city from itself as the Hood then the Arrow. Bruce Wayne was a kid when his parents were gunned down and from that moment he pretty much dedicated himself to getting smarter and stronger so it wouldn't happen to anyone else. As an adult he makes a half ass attempt to convince people that he's a playboy so they don't find him disappearing for days at a time to be too strange. Later on he takes more of a philanthropist persona, even though for all intents and purposes Batman is the real person. It's supposed to be a question for Oliver, am I Oliver Queen or the Arrow? He's  going to have to come to terms with the fact it's not an either or situation. He is Oliver Queen AND the Arrow. 

[catrox14]

I'm thinking that the idea of Malcolm redemption has been all about foreshadowing Oliver became Ra's Ollie Ghul(bless this name you clever person that came up with it!). To prepare an audience to forgive Oliver should he do something heinous to save the City like becoming Ra's Ollie Ghul.

[tv echo]

Pure speculation - btw, I think this writer is wrong (about a lot of things)...

 

When Will Oliver & Felicity Get Together For Real On 'Arrow'? The Answer May Lie In The Upcoming Spinoff
KELLY SCHREMPH @KELLYBEAN0415  17 HOURS AGO
http://www.bustle.com/articles/67658-when-will-oliver-felicity-get-together-for-real-on-arrow-the-answer-may-lie-in

 

Study in contrasts:

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2015 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

Pure speculation - btw, I think this writer is wrong (about a lot of things)...

 

When Will Oliver & Felicity Get Together For Real On 'Arrow'? The Answer May Lie In The Upcoming Spinoff

KELLY SCHREMPH @KELLYBEAN0415  17 HOURS AGO

http://www.bustle.com/articles/67658-when-will-oliver-felicity-get-together-for-real-on-arrow-the-answer-may-lie-in

 

Study in contrasts:

 

 

 

 

That writer has been wrong ... about a lot of things.

[Scribbles]

I have been waiting for them to tie Oliver's efforts to protect Malcolm to his lie to a dying Tommy.  The last words Tommy spoke to Oliver were thanking him for not killing his father.  When Malcolm reappeared, Oliver had a second chance to make right lying to Tommy about not killing Malcolm.  Oliver tends to want to save the souls of all the twisted ones he encounters (Sara on her return, Huntress, Roy, Slade, Thea ....).  Malcolm and Oliver have both repeatedly spared each other, but Tommy's deathbed thanks for sparing his father really placed a duty of honor on Oliver that is personal and hard for those around him to understand.  I wish they had incorporated that into this story line a bit more.

[statsgirl]

Scribbles, that would help make sense out of this s3 Malcolm Merlyn storyline.  Sadly, I think they've forgotten about it though.

 

Pure speculation - btw, I think this writer is wrong (about a lot of things)...

I do think thought that that's how the EPs want us to perceive things, that Ray Palmer is a good guy who treats Felicity better than Oliver does, and the only reason Oliver gets the girl is because he's off to another show.

 

 

The writers never really gave us playboy billionaire OQ. Every episode that showed him living like a playboy, it was just a cover for his Arrow duties. So perhaps the writers do want to go down that path. But I feel like they will have to do something to OQ to make him different. Since returning from the island, OQ has been trying to be either Arrow or the reformed OQ. He's never really shown a desire to return to his womanizing/partying ways. Perhaps something will happen in the end of the season that will make OQ revert back to his womanizer ways, but I think it will have to be something like an aftereffect/ side effect to something bad that happens.

Ollie was a womanizer because he never realized that actions had consequences. He was a rich spoiled child who did whatever he wanted, whatever the cost to others.  The only hint of maturity in the flashbacks was when he heard that Random Hook-up had lost the baby and there was a moment of sadness at what might have been.

 

Post-island Oliver knows that there is nothing to life but consequences.  That's why I don't think he'll ever return to his old ways except as a cover.

[kismet]

Ollie was a womanizer because he never realized that actions had consequences. He was a rich spoiled child who did whatever he wanted, whatever the cost to others.  The only hint of maturity in the flashbacks was when he heard that Random Hook-up had lost the baby and there was a moment of sadness at what might have been.

 

Post-island Oliver knows that there is nothing to life but consequences.  That's why I don't think he'll ever return to his old ways except as a cover.

Totally agree that if I was writing the show I would never have OQ return to his womanizing ways unless it was a cover. But I could see TPTB wanting to make a more edgier show that appeals to a younger demo trying to make him have more fun and be a little more playboyish. I don't read the comics, but isn't it in the comics that he continues to be a playboy & womanizer during parts of the comics while still being GA? If the writers wanted justification they could just go to their fav because comics reason as to why OQ is now becoming more of a playboy. I don't think it would be a good direction for the show, but I could see them getting bored in a few seasons and trying to go for that angle. How they would change OQ back into a playboy could also be an interesting plot line whether it be caused by drugs, villian, or self-induced. I would just hope that it would not last for a full season.

[statsgirl]

From the spoiler thread, because it's speculation

 

For Oliver, I have to imagine Thea's death would have much more impact than Felicity's. Not to say he wouldn't be heartbroken if Felicity died, I'm sure he would, but

Thea is his sister and his sole remaining family member. With both his parents gone he's never going to find another sister (well, that's not necessarily true if what we've heard about Robert is accurate) but as cold as it sounds he can always find love again.

Season Five.  Season four will be Oliver's son.  Season five will find an previously unknown daughter of Robert, who can be trained as the newest vigilante, and who Thea will have to cope with as she grew up with Robert as a father, but the new woman was his bio-daughter.

[tv echo]

At this point, I don't want Oliver and Felicity to get together this season because then their relationship would play out over the hiatus and they'd probably break up at the beginning of season 4.  MG had also said that

no mid-season 3 relationship was going to stay permanent and that things will constantly change, so I'd guess he'd think the same of a late season 3 relationship

.  However, I do want them to regain the mutually supportive, sharing and close friendship they had before.

 

For season 4, I want Felicity's father to be a big DC character (or big non-DC character) involved with a plot that will play out over the entire season, so that she gets a storyline that makes her more than a superhero prop and we get more back story on her life.

Edited March 14, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

At this point, I don't want Oliver and Felicity to get together this season because then their relationship would play out over the hiatus and they'd probably break up at the beginning of season 4.  MG had also said that

no mid-season 3 relationship was going to stay permanent and that things will constantly change, so I'd guess he'd think the same of a late season 3 relationship

.  However, I do want them to regain the mutually supportive, sharing and close friendship they had before.

 

For season 4, I want Felicity's father to be a big DC character (or big non-DC character) involved with a plot that will play out over the entire season, so that she gets a storyline that makes her more than a superhero prop and we get more back story on her life.

Totally agree that I hope that one of the supervillains of the s4 is her father so that she will be incorporated into the plot. I also hope that should any spin-offs be needed they don't use her as their main avenus/prop. 

 

At this point, I also desperately want them to at least regain their friendship & close professional relationship. I do feel like Felicity is a good sounding board & influence on OQ's life & decision making process separate of them having a romantic connection at all. Similar to Diggle, I see Felicity as a close confidante that has helped him through many a tough situation/call in S1&2 before the romance was ever even a consideration. I also don't believe or buy this angst that they have been building between them all season as a legit reason why they cannot function or work together in a professional sense. IRL, they would have worked through their romantic angst weeks ago or if it was gonna be this drawn out they probably would have just cut ties with each other or taken a physical break from each other until they processed their feelings. Its not an actual job, nobody is required to be in the foundry at all times. In my personal professional experience, when co-workers broke off romantic entanglements/flirtations/relationships they just tried to work different shifts or avoid each other. There were almost no dramatic yelling/eye stares. Perhaps, FS should train up one of the other abundant people hanging out in the foundry to work the computers. Even in s1/pilot OQ should competency on the computer perhaps he should buff up his skills if he is gonna continue to be at odds with his team's go-to Tech person.

 

As for their romantic relationship. well I don't want them to get together or hook up with each other for reasons or just because its May/finale time. If they are gonna get together they actually need to stay together & be together during the actual show (not just the 2.5/3.5 comics). So unless the writers want to give us a least a half season of them actually trying to make the relationship work, I don't want them to get together - even though it hurts my head/heart to type that because in any other RL scenario they would have already gotten together. On any other show, I also think the writers would try to give it an actual try but these writers are afraid to for reasons. Im not saying that they will always be together or that it will be smooth sailing, but this 1/2 date & only 1 person saying ILY (the other ones were just implied or suggested) scenario would not have been the extent of their relationship that majorly fractured their entire working relationship, even after he returned from the dead. I see FS comment as not being a woman you love more as commentary on how he is choosing to make his decisions & not necessarily a reflection of her feelings. TBH there are times when I doubt whether Felicity actually romantically loves Oliver at this point her silence has been pretty telling. So either she is being super guarded/protective of her heart which is perfectly acceptable & expected considering her past or maybe she is just in denial. Either way after sitting thru the mess of this season, I would prefer her enlightenment to come in S4 and not just be some finale bone they throw at us.

[Ang]

ITA about them not hooking up in the finale only to have their relationship play out in a format I'm not interested in.

Although I have no hope that the writers would actually handle it well, I think it could be super interesting to have Felicity's dad as the big bad or at least a major adversary. It would give Felicity a legitimate place in the A-story and wouldn't even have to be all about her. It inspires a lot of questions directly about the Arrow - how does he deal with a vital team member having potentially conflicting interests? Does he trust her? Communicate and work closely with her? Where does he draw the line? Push her away and become even more of a solo player? Can he function without his team? Etc. All things that in my mind would add depth and complexity to his development as a hero and wouldn't preclude action-based plots.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Ang

[Kordi]

This pic is fanmade - no spoiler, just pure speculation. But it expresses my deepest fear: that we are going to end S3 with Oliver becoming "Ra´s Ollie Ghul" and being the main "villain" for at least the first part of S4. So the New "Justice League" of Starling City (Felicity, Diggle, Laurel and maybe Roy and Thea) has to fight against him in order to bring him back from the "dark side" ...

 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Kordi

[KirkB]

I love that pic because with just a bit of photoshop Amell looks at least a tiny bit more like I imagine Ra's than Nable.

[statsgirl]

Now that we know that Oliver made a bad decision in trusting Ra's, will Arrow go into showing us what bad decisions he made with respect to Malcolm Merlyn, or will that all be forgotten?

[kismet]

With all this emphasis on the fact that OQ does not dance... is it wrong that I imagine he has all these secret dance moves and is actually a phenomenal dancer. Or that I hope that one day he will just ask/offer to dance with Felicity and it will be one of those slightly cheesy scenes from movies/tv that we all secretly love & hate at the same time. Maybe Moira had him in secret dance classes for years to hone his talents.

 

I wanna know that backstory of why he doesn't dance... Maybe not this season, there are far more pressing mysteries. But sometime before the series wraps up I need to know why Oliver Queen former owner of a night club and former "professional" billionaire clubber has such an aversion to dancing. Its must be a good story.

[Password]

Is it too much to hope for a stand still and sway dance? I mean you don't need experience for that.

[Ariah]

I fear that after this great dialogue between Oliver and Laurel:

"You need more training."

"When will you stop telling me that?"

"When you no longer need training."

 

Is a prelude to a scene in which Laurel saves Oliver and he admits she no longer needs training...

[KirkB]

Laurel doesn't technically need more training to save Oliver, she could do so clumsily or accidentally. That said, I imagine you're basically right in that the dialogue was put there expressly so there can come a future point where Oliver admits "Okay, you don't need any more training." 

[apinknightmare]

I figured it was just there to remind the audience that the show hasn't forgotten she's still not there yet and that the characters realize it as well, and to set up Nyssa offering to train her later in the ep.

Edited March 20, 2015 by apinknightmare

[lexicon]

I fear that after this great dialogue between Oliver and Laurel:

"You need more training."

"When will you stop telling me that?"

"When you no longer need training."

 

Is a prelude to a scene in which Laurel saves Oliver and he admits she no longer needs training...

 

Unless that happens in the far distant future I don't see that being believable but then again, this is a show that had her suiting up and joining the team over the course of a few episodes so it's probably exactly what's going to happen.

[lexicon]

With all this emphasis on the fact that OQ does not dance... is it wrong that I imagine he has all these secret dance moves and is actually a phenomenal dancer. Or that I hope that one day he will just ask/offer to dance with Felicity and it will be one of those slightly cheesy scenes from movies/tv that we all secretly love & hate at the same time. Maybe Moira had him in secret dance classes for years to hone his talents.

 

I wanna know that backstory of why he doesn't dance... Maybe not this season, there are far more pressing mysteries. But sometime before the series wraps up I need to know why Oliver Queen former owner of a night club and former "professional" billionaire clubber has such an aversion to dancing. Its must be a good story.

 

I saw a video where Stephen Amell said he's a bad dancer and has got no moves at all and so kinda wonder if it's just not a bit of art imitating life aka Stephen doesn't dance and so neither does Oliver. That being said, I'd kill for a scene of him and Felicity finally having a dance though.

[tv echo]

Using "dance" as a metaphor for something a bit more horizontal...

 

"Do you want to dance? Or do you want to dance?"  (Thomas Crown to Catherine Banning, The Thomas Crown Affair)

[lexicon]

Using "dance" as a metaphor for something a bit more horizontal...

 

"Do you want to dance? Or do you want to dance?"  (Thomas Crown to Catherine Banning, The Thomas Crown Affair)

 

Ha, you win! 

[kismet]

I saw a video where Stephen Amell said he's a bad dancer and has got no moves at all and so kinda wonder if it's just not a bit of art imitating life aka Stephen doesn't dance and so neither does Oliver. That being said, I'd kill for a scene of him and Felicity finally having a dance though.

I saw that video too and man it was he a bad dancer in it. Im thinking it might have just been them trying to do the Harlem Shake. But yea dancing may not be on SA skills list. But seriously Limbo said, is it really that hard to do a swaying dance?

 

Using "dance" as a metaphor for something a bit more horizontal...

 

"Do you want to dance? Or do you want to dance?"  (Thomas Crown to Catherine Banning, The Thomas Crown Affair)

 I was talking about actual dancing. No metaphors intended. But Ill take both in no particular order please...

[tennisgurl]

Thomas Crown Affair reference for the win! 

[Password]

If the show is awwsomesauce from ep 16 to 23 will it make up for the awful episodes that led up to ep 16?

I mean some people are completely exasperated with Oliver. I tend to hand wave because plot dictates certain things must happen and MG already said they make him stupid for plot. Is it worth it?

[KirkB]

No, in my opinion it won't make up for everything that came before. If the last half dozen or so episodes turn out to be fantastic it will make the end of the season bearable but can't redeem all the failure. If the season ends with Sara alive, the real Sara, then it will almost make up for them being bone headed enough to kill her in the first place. But Arrow as I knew it is over. It's pretty much a different show now. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by KirkB

[Genki]

If the show is awwsomesauce from ep 16 to 23 will it make up for the awful episodes that led up to ep 16?

I mean some people are completely exasperated with Oliver. I tend to hand wave because plot dictates certain things must happen and MG already said they make him stupid for plot. Is it worth it?

 

 

There are definitely a lot of episodes which are a complete write-off in this season and considering 2 character have taken narrative focus undeservingly and a unnecessarily IMO, 16 - 23 being awesomesauce x 10 will only barely make up for it. (sidenote: Oliver is one ting I'm not frustrated by even if there is some shady plotting around his decisions.)

 

Frankly the track record of this season has negated the awesomeness of 2.22 & 2.23 which just barely made up for the post lunge drek we got got in Season 2. As much as Olicity means to my enjoyment of the show, the character regression and OOC twists and turns to bolster dumb these & push plot points leading to the finale is what really hurt the show in S2, and in this season. But at least Slade was an awesome villain which allowed a certain degree of hand-waving for me.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Genki

[NumberCruncher]

If the show is awwsomesauce from ep 16 to 23 will it make up for the awful episodes that led up to ep 16?

I mean some people are completely exasperated with Oliver. I tend to hand wave because plot dictates certain things must happen and MG already said they make him stupid for plot. Is it worth it?

 

No, not for me.  This season is tracking to be the worst of the 3 in my book.  I can't hand wave all that has happened.  Plot may be driving characters rather than the other way around, but the fact is that it still became canon and can't be erased.

[Password]

Tbh I hope 16 - 23 is awesomesauce because it would allow me to ditch the show. I'd then understand the full extent of writing to get a story on the screen instead of writing to tell a coherent, believable story. I could have happy memories and move on as if ep 1 - 15 (except a few good ones) didn't happen.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Limbo

[BkWurm1]

Using "dance" as a metaphor for something a bit more horizontal...

 

"Do you want to dance? Or do you want to dance?"  (Thomas Crown to Catherine Banning, The Thomas Crown Affair)

 

 

I saw a video where Stephen Amell said he's a bad dancer and has got no moves at all and so kinda wonder if it's just not a bit of art imitating life aka Stephen doesn't dance and so neither does Oliver. That being said, I'd kill for a scene of him and Felicity finally having a dance though.

Why doesn't Oliver Queen dance?  Every time it comes up I think of the lyrics to Careless Whisper "Guilty feet ain't got no rhythm."

 

In Gilmore Girls they had one of the characters for years say he doesn't dance...and then he did.  No, he didn't have great moves but it was one of the most romantic scenes from the series.  I wouldn't mind if Arrow did something similar.  Let the exception be the big deal it will have become. 

[kismet]

So as I was driving home from work this am, I was jamming to some music on the radio and "Shut up & Dance" by Walk the Moon came on. And it was like a revelation, it was like the happy AU dancing version of Olicity if we're trying to be happy & upbeat. Its not a deep song by any standards, just pure fun. But what better way to speculate and hope than with a little fun. Its just perfect for them. I really hope at some point in the series we see Oliver dance. I feel like I might actually make a bet with myself.

[Genki]

I wonder if they killed the Mayor so Oliver can run for the position and have a job next season. Heavens knows he needs one, or at least something outside of the Foundry. Plus side more scenes of suited Oliver. More dress ups for events and dinners, more fun with Oliver trying to hide his identity. The Bratva could become a source of conflict or blackmail. Scandal about the love child. Tension between Quentin and Oliver or even the DA's office and Oliver. 

 

The more I think about it the more I want it.

[tv echo]

Hey, Diggle and Lyla need jobs too - college is gonna be super expensive for baby Sara.

Edited March 31, 2015 by tv echo

[Genki]

I think Lyla and/or Diggle can take over Blackhawk. I saw them in the background recently.

 

Or start up their own security firm...As much as I miss Team Arrow I don't want Diggle to be Oliver's Driver again. 

Lyla could be deputy Mayor. (I would make her Mayor but for any character but Oliver, that is a death sentence in the show.)

Diggle could be Chief of Security of Queen Inc, of which Felicity is CEO.

 

Lyla and Diggle are so much easier to place in a job than Oliver, since their resume's don't have huge gaps, or huge failures. Mayor seems like a plausible job that Oliver can get and....*tiny voice* because comics. Lol!!

[Chaser]

Team Arrow Leverage Style !!!

[BkWurm1]

Mayor seems like a plausible job that Oliver can get and....*tiny voice* because comics. Lol!!

 

Plus standards are pretty low in Starling.  I can no longer remember if Moira won or just was ready to win but if she can win, I'd think then all of her supporters would have no trouble voting in Oliver and maybe all the people that hate him too since Mayor kind of equals a death sentence these days. 

 

He's a shoe in.  

[ohjoy]

In my head, Oliver is actually the Dread Pirate Roberts, so…works for me! ;)

Is it bad that now all I can see is Oliver/Felicity as Wesley/Buttercup -- and IT IS ADORABLE?!!!!

[kismet]

Is it bad that now all I can see is Oliver/Felicity as Wesley/Buttercup -- and IT IS ADORABLE?!!!!

AS YOU WIIIISSSSH! :)

[Genki]

Not wrong at all.

 

"If it's you asking" = "As you wish"

[tv echo]

Clues about Felicity's father from 3x18...

 

Mama Smoak: "If your father were here... "
Felicity: "He would be arrested."
Mama Smoak: "Probably. But right before that, he would tell you that sometimes, we got to take a chance, particularly for the people we care about."

 

Felicity: "I did it. "
Mama Snoak: "Ah! I am so proud of you. I am so proud--your father would be proud of you."
Felicity: "You know, he's not exactly a role model, but..."

 

Mama Smoak (to Felicity): "You look the way you did when you were seven years old and stole your father's electronics collection to make a super computer."

 

So we know that Felicity's father is someone who is willing to take a chance for people he cares about, that he's done questionable things that would make him not a role model, and that he had an electronics collection.  We also know from previous episodes that he's smart like Felicity and that he abandoned or left his family when she was a small child.  Before 3x18, I would have guessed that he was a bad guy who cruelly abandoned his family.  But now it could be that he was forced to leave his family even though he loved them and that he probably still loves them.  Could he still be a villain?  Yes, but he could be a villain with a weak spot - love for his family.  Or he could be a villain like Malcolm - who loves Thea but is still willing to use her.  Or he could be a good guy who is forced to leave (by ARGUS? HIVE? Bratva?) in order to protect his family.

Edited April 4, 2015 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

I'm a pushover -- I'm hoping that he's a good guy who was forced by some super organization (possibly good but probably bad) to be their computer tech whiz and he had to leave to protect his family from them.

 

It's interesting that Donna talks so positively about him.  There's none of the bitterness that you'd expect about a man who deserted his family and left her to work 60 hours a week in 4" heels to support them.  Felicity is more angry than she is.

[statsgirl]

From Stephen Amell at Vancouver's Fan Expo

 

 

A fan, dressed as Elmo, and asked in his voice, about Stephen appearing in the Arrow/The Flash spin-off. Stephen said he will appear in all three shows. “We will be sprinkling characters in, I know there is a plan for one character who originated on Arrow who isn’t one of the main characters of the spin-off to sort of hover between all three shows and it will be their job. You will see a lot of interconnectivity next year.”

Any guesses?

 

It's not Ray or CL's character because they are main characters on the spin--off.

 

I think Felicity is the obvious person because she's the only one who does high tech so I'm thinking it's not her.  Roy?  Thea?  It could be Laurel except it would be awkward if Sara is on the spin-off.

 

(I know people have been talking about this in the spoiler thread but I don't think it's a real spoiler because it's so general, and why should spoiler viewers have all the fun?)

Edited April 5, 2015 by statsgirl