Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[BkWurm1]

Isn't this season about him needing to be/Can be both? If the team goes off in different directions I want Oliver to do it with Felicity by his side sorry/not sorry lol

 

It probably should have been him learning to find balance but instead I think this season has been him learning that he doesn't want to be or can't be effective as Arrow so he'll go the other direction and only learn balance next season.  But if Felicity takes off with Oliver, I don't care what story they are telling. 

[jay741982]

It probably should have been him learning to find balance but instead I think this season has been him learning that he doesn't want to be or can't be effective as Arrow so he'll go the other direction and only learn balance next season.  But if Felicity takes off with Oliver, I don't care what story they are telling.

You make good points and yes I agree as long as Felicity takes off with Oliver I don't care either lol.

[tv echo]

I wouldn't be surprised if the season finale contains a clue as to Felicity's father and that he's somehow connected to the Omega virus.

[dtissagirl]

The Omega virus is Arrow's appropriation of Darkseid's mind control power, so would that make Felicity Darkseid's daughter? :)

Edited February 21, 2015 by dancingnancy

[tv echo]

What happens at the end of this season will probably determine whether or not I continue to watch Arrow going into Season 4.

 

It's entirely possible that I might end up doing what someone else here once suggested... after the Season 2.5 digital comics are all collected into one print graphic novel format, buy that book and then just pretend that the show was cancelled after Season 2.5 - that Oliver and Felicity went on that first date of many dates and then went on to live HEA.  In this alternate reality, Sara never died, Laurel never became the BC, and Ray Palmer never came to Starling City.  Original Team Arrow continued to fight the bad guys, but took time out to go out on double dates with Oliver & Felicity and Diggle & Lyla.  

[KirkB]

The Omega virus is Arrow's appropriation of Darkseid's mind control power, so would that make Felicity Darkseid's daughter? :)

 

 

I like this idea.  :)  Felicity and Thea are sitting around the Arrowcave.

Thea: Man, Malcolm is so evil.

Felicity: You think YOU have daddy issues....

[jay741982]

I like this idea. :) Felicity and Thea are sitting around the Arrowcave.

Thea: Man, Malcolm is so evil.

Felicity: You think YOU have daddy issues....

I want Thea/Felicity friendship badly the actresses already adore each other

[Ariah]

Let me just say that, having watched the finale of Sleepy Hollow (another great show that went sour because of bad writing and sidelining crucial characters to make room for a "canonical" pairing) that I HOPE the Arrow writers take good notes, rewatch the final episode of SH 2 season and try to duplicate the effect.

It's really nothing too difficult. It can take just one episode to right all the wrongs.

 

At this point, I don't think many eople would mind if this whole season turned out to be a dream dreamt by a comatose Oliver. I wouldn't.

[statsgirl]

I think that needs to be tweeted to the EPs because right now, they just don't get it.

[kismet]

Let me just say that, having watched the finale of Sleepy Hollow (another great show that went sour because of bad writing and sidelining crucial characters to make room for a "canonical" pairing) that I HOPE the Arrow writers take good notes, rewatch the final episode of SH 2 season and try to duplicate the effect.

It's really nothing too difficult. It can take just one episode to right all the wrongs.

 

At this point, I don't think many eople would mind if this whole season turned out to be a dream dreamt by a comatose Oliver. I wouldn't.

I'd be on board with the comatose vision, its all a dream/nightmare . That would be epic and a gamechanger. I dont have to go back as far as beginning of s3. The first part of the season was not horrible, minus the unnecessary killing of Sara. But they could rewrite the aftermath of her death better than this convoluted LOA/MM teaming BS. But the rest of it was not bad. Certainly not the shit-show that 3b has turned out to be. There was angst, but it was logical if Oliver was really struggling to between OQ & arrow. So I would be okay, if the writers only went back and had him still be in a coma from his "death". It would also be a logical place in which to have him fall into a coma. Anything would be a better option, than these last episodes actually being a thought out plot from the writers.

[KirkB]

Maybe everything, from Yao Fe,  Malcolm and his earthquake machine, to being the Arrow to Waller and the League, pretty much everything that has happened on the show so far, is nothing but a dream or hallucination of Oliver's? He's actually been alone on Lian Yu this whole time.

Edited February 24, 2015 by KirkB

[statsgirl]

The first part of the season was not horrible, minus the unnecessary killing of Sara. But they could rewrite the aftermath of her death better than this convoluted LOA/MM teaming BS. But the rest of it was not bad.

Except for the action in Corto Maltese, TSOOF and the cross-overs, I think it was.  "Sara" was anything but a love letter to the character and the second time Felicity cried but sadly not the last. The Magician was Oliver being an idiot and letting Malcolm go, and Guilty was a mess trying to fit Laurel's origin story in with Roy's.  And let's not even get into Draw Back Your Bow, which had a good villain but an awful triangle plotline where Diggle completely sides with Oliver leaving Felicity dangling, solidifying the break-up of the O/D/F team that was so great before.

 

What would save this season for me?  Felicity and Oliver talking, Felicity, Oliver and Diggle finally talking and being on the same page.  No Raylicity, I want Felicity to be Ray's Diggle,not his love interest.  Thea becomes Speedy and she and Roy occasionally drop by to help but not always because it's way too crowded in the Arrow cave.  Ray finds another show to be awesome on, and Laurel decides to fight with Wildcat rather than Team Arrow.

 

Nope, not gonna happen.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I really don't like Laurel, but I'm pretty sure that I could handle her if she was off with Wildcat and away from Team Arrow trio.  Or they could put her with Ray and then I could fast-forward those bits of the story.  Basically I would just like to return to the happy times where Laurel was missing from whole episodes and nobody noticed, she was off in her own little storyline, or she only interacted with her father.

[kismet]

Except for the action in Corto Maltese, TSOOF and the cross-overs, I think it was.  "Sara" was anything but a love letter to the character and the second time Felicity cried but sadly not the last. The Magician was Oliver being an idiot and letting Malcolm go, and Guilty was a mess trying to fit Laurel's origin story in with Roy's.  And let's not even get into Draw Back Your Bow, which had a good villain but an awful triangle plotline where Diggle completely sides with Oliver leaving Felicity dangling, solidifying the break-up of the O/D/F team that was so great before.

 

What would save this season for me?  Felicity and Oliver talking, Felicity, Oliver and Diggle finally talking and being on the same page.  No Raylicity, I want Felicity to be Ray's Diggle,not his love interest.  Thea becomes Speedy and she and Roy occasionally drop by to help but not always because it's way too crowded in the Arrow cave.  Ray finds another show to be awesome on, and Laurel decides to fight with Wildcat rather than Team Arrow.

 

Nope, not gonna happen.

True, very valid points. I simply meant is wasn't that bad. I never claimed it was good. Trust me they could have done a whole lot better with S3.

[jay741982]

Well I'm watching Survivor live and Taping Arrow cause I have a feeling ill barf at some point

[GirlvsTV]

My wild speculation:

I hope Oliver saves Malcolm from Nanda Parbat and then returns with him to Starling City where upon being reunited with Thea, she immediately kills Malcolm herself because Oliver thwarted her plans to have Ra's do it. This way Oliver's plan to 'save' Thea's soul completely backfires and he remains the miserable dumb ass this show has devolved him into. Also, seems a fair punishment for not respecting Thea's decision to turn Malcolm over to the LOA in the first place.

ETA: Oh well. I guess it was too much to hope for that they'd actually do something slightly original with this storyline.

Edited February 26, 2015 by GirlvsTV

[apinknightmare]

I hope she kills him too, regardless of when and where it is. Especially if Oliver is so stupid to try to save him just so she won't have a guilty conscience. Especially since IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO AND IT SOLVES ALL THEIR PROBLEMS. Well, it will if she manages to do it before Ra's gets all pissed, haha.

 

Oliver...please, I'm begging you to end all future potential dumbass behavior. 

Edited February 25, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Password]

Why are you begging Oliver? I believe MG deserves all the plaudits.

[apinknightmare]

Why are you begging Oliver? I believe MG deserves all the plaudits.

 

Well...yeah. I realize that Oliver's not a real person.

[Password]

Indeed. But I'm saying I find it difficult to blame him for things when MG said he gets story telling mileage from making Oliver do dumbass things.

[PurpleWolfhound]

If the Atom or Firestorm are picked up next year, I wonder what monetary incentive would be required to coax Marc Guggenheim to be the show runner? I would start a worldwide bake sale today to fund that incentive. Perhaps Stephen Amell would help me on this crusade?

 

Then Arrow could get a new EP that actually writes for characters rather than plot. We'd see Oliver Queen continue on his path to becoming the Green Arrow with the help of John Diggle and Felicity Smoak. Maybe the new EP would actually write Oliver to be the man Diggle once stated (in episode 3x09 The Cimb) as "one of the smartest men I have ever known..." rather than an idiot who is forced by the writers, at random times during a given season, to be dumb as a bag of wet hammers. 

 

As long as Marc Guggenheim is in charge of Arrow, I weep for the future of this show. He couldn't successfully organize a one car parade.  

[KirkB]

I agree with the sentiment, both of Oliver doing dumbass things and Thea killing Malcolm, but if she wants him dead why wouldn't she just kill him in the first place instead of sending him the League? Unless she's hoping they'll torture him and make what's left of his life miserable before ending it, which is probably one of the reasons Oliver would be willing to save him. 

Edited February 25, 2015 by KirkB

[GirlvsTV]

I agree with the sentiment, both of Oliver doing dumbass things and Thea killing Malcolm, but if she wants him dead why wouldn't she just kill him in the first place instead of sending him the League? Unless she's hoping they'll torture him and make what's left of his life miserable before ending it, which is probably one of the reasons Oliver would be willing to save him.

Because no one on this show is allowed to do things in a straight forward manner. The more convoluted the path to get to the end the result the better, or at least that seems to be how the writers see things : )

Seriously though, maybe Thea will initially be more reticent to do the job herself but if it shakes out the way I speculated, Oliver saving Malcolm would basically force her hand. So Oliver's attempt to 'save her soul' would actually be the thing that causes her to 'lose' it. Although this killing someone = losing your soul thing is pretty dumb because the show has never really equated those two before. I'd rather them stick to the 'humanity' argument to keep it more consistent with Oliver's journey.

[KirkB]

What I love about this whole thing, which makes me kind of hope you're right, is that Malcolm would die with a smile on his face. Being killed by his daughter would be the most glorious thing in the world to him.

[Genki]

If Oliver is fighting for Thea's soul I hope they make it a fact that he is seriously projecting and by proxy trying to save his soul... Then maybe then I can buy into this foolishness. Also it won't work unless Oliver realises that he had to save himself.

Unfortunately I don't think this is happening and I don't think I can watch any new episodes for a long long time.

[GirlvsTV]

If Oliver is fighting for Thea's soul I hope they make it a fact that he is seriously projecting and by proxy trying to save his soul... Then maybe then I can buy into this foolishness. Also it won't work unless Oliver realises that he had to save himself.

Unfortunately I don't think this is happening and I don't think I can watch any new episodes for a long long time.

I'd like to see this too. Or really any development involving Oliver becoming self-aware this season. It would certainly feel like a victory : )

Yeah, it's funny. I really have no interest in watching tonight, but I look forward to reading episode recaps to see if my spec was right!

[SleepDeprived]

I'm going to speculate on Ra's endgame based on nothing. Perhaps, the Lazarus Pit in Nanda Parbat is not working so well anymore and Ra's realizes that he needs to face his own death when that Pit's done. He did say that "Death comes for us all. We can only evade it so long," in The Climb.

 

Since the mission of the League is to rid the world of evil, he's trying to rid the world of evil now before he loses his bathtub of youth. Enter the Omega Virus for the final run of episodes later this season.

 

Also, it could be why he's been so determined about finding Malcolm (when he had, like, a year after Moira told him in S2), not because of Sara, but because Ra's needs to punish Malcolm for violating their code due to the Undertaking now. He's running out of time. In keeping with this totally out-of-left-field spec, I bet there was truth to what Malcolm said in The Magician that Ra's wanted Sara dead because he didn't approve of Sara for Nyssa. Ra's could view Sara's death and how Nyssa handled it as a sort of test on whether she's ready to take over the mantle of The Demon's Head.

 

And, because Nyssa's been so set on vengeance that she just wanted Oliver dead even though she doesn't really believe (and neither does Ra's) he killed Sara, Ra's thinks Nyssa isn't ready. However, since Oliver was/is willing to sacrifice everything for his mission to save Thea, Ra's is impressed and considers him as a possible heir and someone he can groom to take on the LoA's mission. (Another person, who is willing to rid the world of evil despite personal costs, could be a possible heir but that would be delving into spoilers for tonight.) This sets Nyssa feeling betrayed and possibly against Ra's in future episodes/joining Team Arrow, provisionally.

 

Speculating without Spoilers! Fun times. All nonsensical scenarios aside, I hope Thea gets to punch Malcolm, at least once, in the face and that Oliver gains back an IQ point or twenty. I, also, hope tonight's episode isn't too crazy-convoluted when we finally find out what Ra's plan is and how Oliver/Thea/Team Arrow fit into it. But with the promises that it's a game-changer that is unguessable, I think I might be outta luck on that one.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I hope that Ray shrinks and Felicity squishes him to the bottom of her shoe like a piece of gum on the pavement.

[lemotomato]

Since i know it is shirt term, i am fine with Ray and Felicity banging and dating a bit, girl needs some action, and Ray is a hot nerd.

 

I'm seeing this a lot as a reaction to Raylicity. I'm afraid that Ray and Raylicity aren't going to be as temporary as everyone hopes, especially since there's no actual talk or planning of a spinoff. Isn't it this time of year when shows announce if an actor is getting promoted to the main cast (or coming back) for next season?

[quarks]

Arrow usually seems to make general casting decisions in February, which is more or less the same time that they get initial budget information from the CW, although that budget info can get tweaked in May, or at some other time if they can persuade another corporate sponsor to pop up money. (Show, I'm willing to handle more Microsoft stuff if it means never repeating the nightmare of reusing the QC set the way you did in "Nanda Parbat" ever, ever, again.) 

 

Brandon Routh is probably a special case.  For whatever reason, the CW isn't biting at the idea of an Atom spinoff yet. Whether this is because they've decided that they have enough superheroes for now, or because there's more fan excitement right now about Firestorm, which will be equally expensive on the CGI front, but possibly a little less expensive on the actor front, or whether they're just waiting to see how Ray does over on Flash, I don't know. Assuming it's the latter, though, I don't think they'll make any decisions about Routh until then. If an Atom spinoff does get greenlit, I assume they'll try to keep Routh busy by having him appear here and on Flash.

 

If the CW nixes an Atom spinoff, I don't see Routh staying on board.

[BkWurm1]

I'm seeing this a lot as a reaction to Raylicity. I'm afraid that Ray and Raylicity aren't going to be as temporary as everyone hopes, especially since there's no actual talk or planning of a spinoff. Isn't it this time of year when shows announce if an actor is getting promoted to the main cast (or coming back) for next season?

I fully expect Ray to be back a lot in the beginning of 4 and then dwindling after that. I don't think that's indicative of his relationship status with Felicity though.  Eventually Ray has to interact with other people.  He has the suit now so I suspect that kind of stuff is coming soon. 

[tv echo]

Then Arrow could get a new EP that actually writes for characters rather than plot. We'd see Oliver Queen continue on his path to becoming the Green Arrow with the help of John Diggle and Felicity Smoak. Maybe the new EP would actually write Oliver to be the man Diggle once stated (in episode 3x09 The Cimb) as "one of the smartest men I have ever known..." rather than an idiot who is forced by the writers, at random times during a given season, to be dumb as a bag of wet hammers. 

 

As long as Marc Guggenheim is in charge of Arrow, I weep for the future of this show. He couldn't successfully organize a one car parade.  

 

MG throws GB and AK under the bus?

rosemariedavis asked:

You. Should. Not. Have. Done. That. I'm usually the rational one but not in this case. Stay away from internet, you don't wanna hear everything we have to say, especially since we're never been pissed more than we are now and on most days we love you. NOT TODAY. Since you're not the only one writing this show, send our "love" to Berlanti and Kreisberg too. Now I'm out.

What would it take to convince you that this was Greg and Andrew’s idea?  #kidding

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/

Edited February 26, 2015 by tv echo

[Kordi]

Having just finished watching last night’s episode, I want to repost a pic I made last year in October after watching 3x01, because the Harvey Dent quote from “The Dark Knight” (2008), which I used back then in order to describe Oliver’s Vertigo induced fight against himself in the season premiere, seems now even more appropriate: Oliver didn’t die a hero - neither in “The Climb” (3x09) nor in “Nanda Parbat” (3x15) -, and now he is going to see himself become …

"The Demon's Head"[/spoiler]!

[Kordi]

My personal speculation for the end of S3: Oliver ends up in Nanda Parbat, being

the new leader of the League of Assassins [/spoiler], while Roy and Laurel - with support from Diggle and Ray & Felicity - stay back in Starling City in order to protect its citizens. S4 could then be about getting Oliver back to Starling City and taking the Green Hood up again. - I don't say that I like this plot, but it seems quite possible for me right now.

[KirkB]

I could absolutely see it going that way. Though I find it funny that since Oliver announced to Starling that he wasn't leaving again he has probably been gone more often than the rest of the seasons combined.

[SonofaBiscuit]

With as nasty and petty as he seems, I'm a bit worried that MG is going to take the rejection of Ray out on Olicity fans.  Like, if an Atom spinoff doesn't get picked up, he'll punish us by either keeping Ray and Felicity together for as long as possible or keeping Oliver and Felicity apart indefinitely.

[lemotomato]

I was actually wondering what other ways the show could kick Olicity fans in the teeth this season. Judging from the interviews where the EPs and SA emphasize that Raylicity is a serious romance, it's very likely Felicity will tell Ray "I love you" before she acknowledges/realizes any feelings she has for Oliver.

[Nagevs]

I was actually wondering what other ways the show could kick Olicity fans in the teeth this season. Judging from the interviews where the EPs and SA emphasize that Raylicity is a serious romance, it's very likely Felicity will tell Ray "I love you" before she acknowledges/realizes any feelings she has for Oliver.

 

I'm not sure about that, I think MG said on Tumblr that Felicity loves Oliver. I do think however that Ray will declare his love for Felicity and ask her to leave town with him and or propose.

 

I guess it all depends how much they're still writing for plot at the end of the season.

[kismet]

If Felicity legitimately tells Ray ILY before she tells it to OQ, Im gonna call BULLSHIT on the writers. Not cuz of OQ, but cuz of who I think her character is & timing. How is it possible that after only a few months of friendship & dating is FS ready to make that verbal announcement? Just consider her personality, her mindset & her emotional baggage... I just can't see her being like ILY to Ray, its just too soon.

 

I could see RP saying it, and I could see FS having that cliche silence back or saying something along the lines of ILY as a knee-jerk response/reaction to something RP says. But to truly legitimately mean it like OQ meant at the end of 309? No, I just cannot believe it. And if it happened I would consider it an OOC response & quite frankly be very disappointed in the writers.

 

But I sorta hope they avoid the cliche ILY what does s/he say back scene. 1. It diminishes RP's love of ANNA, its bad enough shes already become an afterthought for the inspiration of his hero quest. RP is allowed to move on, but ILY would in my mind be too soon for him too. And secondly, now that certain things have been released to the media & we know

that RP will be spun off onto new show, I just dont want ILY baggage between them. It would just always be there possibly ruining the crossovers too much.

[quarks]

Even leaving aside Ray

heading off to a new show,

I don't think either Felicity or Ray will be saying "I love you," mostly because that's something that very few people on this show, other than Quentin, Dinah and Moira in a parental context, have said. When they have said it, it's been after a long term on screen or off screen relationship - Diggle/Lyla who were previously married; Nyssa and Sara, who seem to have been together for at least one year, probably two (and Sara said it in the past tense); Roy/Thea who've had the longest on screen relationship on the show so far; and Oliver to Felicity, but not in the other direction. It's something the show seems to reserve for the long term, OTP pairing couples - and even then. Laurel/Oliver never said it in the first season, even in flashbacks where it would have been appropriate at least from Laurel's side.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I really hope they don't make Felicity's father anyone other than a boring regular ole dead beat Dad.  I love Felicity because she is ordinary but incredibly smart and brave and took on the Arrow mission because she wanted to do it, not because we find out she has DNA to some other super hero or super villain or mobster. 

 

For richer storytelling purposes, I think Felicity's father HAS to be some kind of villain. Maybe not straight-up bad, but someone who was forced to do something he normally wouldn't do to save his family. Or really, really evil because it would serve as a nice contrast to and source of conflict for Felicity. I don't think he can or should just be a regular guy because, well, what kind of story is going to be mined from that? She already has a "regular" mom. I want Felicity to have an arc, a season-long or even one that lasts an entire series. And a regular dad won't be able to provide that. Having a supervillain or superhero father wouldn't take away from Felicity's own drive to help people but, I hope, would provide some challenges/conflict for her, which in turn should fuel more character growth. MG is hinting they might explore that and Diggle's HIVE connection in Season 4. I hope those turn out to be like the arcs they're now showing for Laurel and Thea now.

[NumberCruncher]

I'd be okay with Felicity's dad being involved in the Bratva somehow. It opens an entire world of possibilities and challenges too. We know that Oliver's flashbacks are going to have to end up in Russia somehow and so imagine what could happen if he found himself on the wrong side of Felicity's dad's business and that somehow came back to haunt him in the present day. That would serve the purpose of tying Felicity into the A story again and naturally creating tension in her relationship with Oliver. It wouldn't even be that big of a stretch that Donna crossed paths with a mobster given she probably worked in a Vegas casino.

[Password]

And I may have just read a fanfic that I could forward to the CW to make this work.

[Starfish35]

From cast discussion in Spoiler Thread -

I think, if it were me, I'd cut the cast back to five or six regulars, max. Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Roy. Quentin and Lyla as recurring. And then just mainly focus on writing storylines around those primary characters. Not that new characters can't be brought in, but they should be brought in to serve the stories of the regular characters, not the other way around.

[wonderwall]

Really? I'd cut back to Oliver, Digg, Felicity, Roy, Thea. The rest can come and go as they please. 

[Starfish35]

I thought that's what I said? *confused*

[wonderwall]

I thought that's what I said? *confused*

lmaooooooooo

 

my bad. I thought you included Quentin and Lyla as well. I didn't read what you wrote properly. This is why I should never multitask

[Starfish35]

Lol that's ok. :)

[SmallScreenDiva]

From cast discussion in Spoiler Thread -

I think, if it were me, I'd cut the cast back to five or six regulars, max. Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Roy. Quentin and Lyla as recurring. And then just mainly focus on writing storylines around those primary characters. Not that new characters can't be brought in, but they should be brought in to serve the stories of the regular characters, not the other way around.

 

I saw some interview from MG and AK, I think, about "Nyssa's journey" and I just sat there thinking, "WTF?" I mean, I like Nyssa just fine. But before you give somebody like her a journey, why don't you give us a little bit more on Felicity and Diggle? Goodness gracious! I really don't give a flying eff about these other characters who are not even regulars. I desperately hope TPTB start getting over with this fascination with costumed extra characters. They can't even juggle stories for the cast they have, and now I'm getting another character's effing journey? Seriously? I agree, cut the cast down to essentials and focus on them. Let other characters come in but THEY should be serving the primary casts' journeys, not the other way around.

[statsgirl]

I really want Laurel to go over to the new spinoff.  Laurel and Ray there, leaving Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Roy and Willa in the lair.  It would balance the Team out nicely (Oliver/Diggle one team, Roy/Thea the other and Felicity running things from home base) and Laurel is never really going to fit because she's an ineffective Black Canary and the Black Canary needs to be kick-ass.

 

Nyssa can join them on the new spin-off, working with Sara.

 

Since Donna is ordinary/normal, I think they're definitely going to make Felicity's father someone big, someone who was forced to leave his family by some super mission. Otherwise, he ends up being a real jerk, leaving his daughter who loved him and disappearing for 20 years, no card, no child support, everything Donna's responsibility..