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Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)


quarks
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Well, they could always do a time jump. How long does it take to get through the police academy for example? The new season opens with ONE YEAR LATER and they could have skipped a lot of stuff, like Laurel training, Quentin getting better and being named Chief or something, Diggle's kid being born. As much as I hate the tactic it is an easy way of giving characters development (not actual character development, mind you, that's a separate thing) without actually showing it.

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KirkB, I thought the showrunners said that they'd be sticking with real time, so the next episode starts five months later?  Diggle's kid is probably going to be born right in time for November sweeps, which is a very considerate thing for a newborn to do.

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(edited)

The EP's said they like keeping everything in real time. So when the show starts up again 5 months have passed just like it has for the audience. It's enough time for Quentin to be out of the hospital but not enough time for Laurel to receive the training needed to even be near Oliver and Sara's level. 

 

Ignoring my hatred of the Laurel character, I won't be able to stand the fact that Arrow's, Black Canary is going to be so far behind skill wise. She literally has no skills that the Black Canary of the comic has. They gave all those and more to Sara's Canary. That's why I thought it was great when they brought her in as a LOA trained Black Canary (the BC did have ties to the LOA in the comics as well. So they didn't just make that up). That way we already had an established trained BC fighting alongside Arrow, just like the comics. 

 

The BC wasn't a side kick, she didn't need to be trained by Arrow. She was already out there kicking ass. Arrow was a partner, an equal. That won't be the case now. Laurel fans say she is trained but that training hasn't helped her at all (who did she take down, some body guards at a club in S1. If I recall she took them by surprise since they were focused on Oliver and Tommy. That shows me that those guys were not all that trained either) When she came across trained people she was immediately dameled, so I don't consider her trained. 

Edited by Sakura12
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She's not trained and I really call BS on the Laurel/KC fans who keep saying she's got massive training the show has never indicated that, in fact they've repeatedly shown that when going up against someone with training she fails.

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I don't think Detective Lance will die. However, it's possible that his injury may take him out of the field and he'll be promoted to police captain or even chief of police, since he took charge of the precinct during the mirakuru army attack and a lot of higher ups were killed.

My thought too. By the end of the evening Lance was the highest ranking officer left. I don't know if that means there were others but they were incapacitated or if they were all dead but at least some kind of position in charge will have opened up.

I read over that "must have" list from the previous page and he lost me at Thea. Apparently he didn't notice the championship archery trophies Thea had in her bedroom in season one. I still don't buy her going all evil, but she could actually be believable with some intense training and I think Thea was in the mood for intense training.

Our Green Arrow doesn't exist in a world with Superman so no, to the movies and while I'm fine with a Batman doing his own thing over in Gotham, Batman shouldn't be soooooo far ahead that his kid sidekick is all grown up. That's too long a time frame for no,one to notice both Gotham and Starling City have their own vigilante. Felicity would have mentioned the similarities. So no Nightwing. Same reason for a no to Harley Quinn. If she was to show up, it should only be long enough to break out and go home to Gotham to strike up an acquaintance with the love of her life.

The other stuff is fine those not what I'd call absolute musts.

I really expect that Oliver's financial issues in regards to the team expenses will be resolved with Robin Hood like tactics. We know Felicity can do it and it doesn't cross Oliver's no kill rule. And if the show,picks up five months into their liquidity problem desperate measures might have to be employed.

That still would necessitate day jobs for the team since I doubt they'd be happy living on stolen money. It's one thing for the heroing business - take a little off the top for expenses and give the rest to charity - but much harder to justify when splurging on fancy shoes.

I'm kinda hoping Laurel gets promoted to DA. She'd be too busy to do anything like training to become a vigilante cause she's jealous Sara got to be one. ;)

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I don't think Laurel has any training, I just keep seeing that posted places. "We've seen Laurel can fight" type of stuff. For me it's "When?" We've seen her throw a few punches, which IMO were lucky punches because the other person wasn't expecting her to hit him. Then she immediately gets taken hostage or kidnapped. 

 

We can also really compare it to the BOP ep, Laurel gets in a fight with one of Helena's men, she throws an elbow, misses. Gets thrown against a vending machine and would've had her throat cut had Sara not shown up. Then we have Laurel saying they need to rescue the others which is commendable but again we see her throw a punch, immediately get taken down and the next scenes she's tied up next to the other hostages. 

 

Compare to Sara's fight scene where the guy didn't even get to hit her at all before he was unconscious on the floor. She did lose the first fight to Huntress, but she saved herself from dying after falling out of a window with her silk ribbon things, then in the second fight Helena didn't even stand a chance. They showed us the difference in skill level between those two and Sara's was superior. That's the training required to be a vigilante. Not some classroom self defense class. (which according to the comic Sara also received. They even had Oliver say that Sara wasn't much of a fighter and she wasn't until she was trained by the LOA and became a formidable fighter.)

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Sakura - Word to your entire post! That's pretty much what pisses me off, the show has demonstrated repeatedly that Laurel is no match for anyone with actual training but Laurel/KC fans and even KC herself keeps claiming that Laurel has training.

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I am kinda bummed that the in-show hiatus means that we will probably miss Diggle's reactions to Laurel getting brought into the Arrow Cave/trained - assuming that this doesn't start post hiatus.

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I liked that they stuck to real time in the first two hiatuses (hiata?) but I want this one should start right away.  Not only will we miss Diggle's reactions to Laurel, but we'll miss Oliver trying to find a place to live and Oliver, Felcity and Diggle all looking for new jobs.

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Do we really think Laurel's just going to show up the next morning at the Arrow lair (er, wherever that is going to be now), ready to train? I wouldn't expect that based on the finale, so I'm kinda confused about that assumption.

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She can show up the next morning but the team will still be flying home from China.  That flight takes a while.  Plus of course she'll be hanging at the hospital for a while.  Logically, so would Sara since her ship hadn't left when Quentin went down but logic has little to do with anything I guess. 

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I just don't picture her showing up, expecting to be part of the team, regardless. Maybe that's because the thought of it makes me ill! If it happens, I would think there would be a more precipitating event than just the fact that she knows about Oliver now and has a new jacket. Why would either of those things mean she's a part of the team now?

 

But I do agree that I'm gonna need to see some real shade from Diggle if she does show up. I rely on him for that, and it would be gross if it had to be Felicity who did it.

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It won't be the next morning, the show will start up again 5 months later. So I expect that Laurel will be there since she's been handed the Canary title. We'll just have accept she's there without seeing how it happened. 

 

I also don't expect Sara to show up until midseason with Nyssa and Ra's al Ghul. 

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(edited)

I e-mailed Ausiello to ask if the show is going to do the usual 5 month wait.  But because I'm mean, I only asked about Oliver, Diggle and Felicity. (Not Laurel, I didn't want to give him the idea I cared about her.)

 

ETA: corrected to reflect that this is my opinion only, although the other 2 people in my household agree.

Edited by statsgirl
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I'm trying to decide which would be worse for Oliver to make a go of a relationship with next season, Laurel or the mother of his child who doubtless will return next season.

 

(from Oliver Queen thread)

I've always thought when the reveal about his kid happens, the mother will either be dead or in a coma or missing or something.  The actress cast IMO was too forgettable to show up as a love interest next season.  I could be wrong or they could recast the actress but I've always figured the drama wouldn't be about the mama but the son. 

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If Oliver doesn't think he can be with a woman he cares about because of what he does, how will he feel about the responsibility of a 7  year old son?

 

I assumed that when the baby reveal came, it would be about Oliver trying to decide whether he should marry the girl and make a family for his son, but this is better.  Hopefully the kid has functioning grandparents that he can go back to when the arc is done.

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I e-mailed Ausiello to ask if the show is going to do the usual 5 month wait. But because I'm mean, I only asked about Oliver, Diggle and Felicity. (Not Laurel, I didn't want to give him the idea we cared about her.)

Some of "we" do.

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I e-mailed Ausiello to ask if the show is going to do the usual 5 month wait.  But because I'm mean, I only asked about Oliver, Diggle and Felicity. (Not Laurel, I didn't want to give him the idea I cared about her.)

 

ETA: corrected to reflect that this is my opinion only, although the other 2 people in my household agree.

MG said that S3 would pick up 5-6 months after the finale, it was in one of the multitude of interviews MG and AK did the day of the finale.

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I think we will see a lot more of Katrina Law, the next season. Maybe she already has a recurring contract. I follow her on twitter( because she's HOT) and she tweets and re tweets a lot about Arrow. And most recently she re-tweeted a tweet from Marc Guggenheim which basically said that he has begun writing for Arrow Season 3.

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/473846033638621184

 

Besides, it will be pretty cool seeing more of Katrina Law on Arrow.

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the show picking up 5-6 months later is going to be very challenging for me to get into.  While it happened last year and I was OK with it, S1 ended in such a way that a long break was easy to fill in with some key lines in dialogue.  I thought the show handled the S2 Ep1 just fine in terms of explaining what happened off screen.

 

But S3's start will come with huge gaps that I think could present more problems than solutions.

1) Oliver getting QC back.  The show stinks at writing business-related stories, so I'm not optimistic that the status of Oliver, QC, Diggle and Felicity will be neatly done.  I feel like there will be a patched up, rushed 'fix.'  I'd love to be wrong, though!

 

2) Quentin's health.  I'm hoping that he survives but, of course, that means we will miss how Laurel, Sara, Dinah and Team Arrow react to his injuries and his recovery.  Maybe they will have a brief flashback?  Because if Sara and Dinah aren't a part of whatever happens to him, I'll throw something at my TV

 

3) Thea's whereabouts.  I wonder how long it will take to find out when Oliver and Roy realized that Thea is long gone (Roy has her note - it was vague, but did he tell Oliver about it/her?) and that she wasn't alone

 

4) Laurel's next step.  I can see a few possibilities with her - taking over as DA (realistically, this is BS but I expect nothing less from this show) and getting a handle on what Blood had done during his day and night jobs.  Or she's thrown into the Mayor's office in some capacity.  And then there's the possible BC stuff.  Maybe Laurel ditches all efforts to resurrect her legal job (and the means to paying her bills) to pursue being the BC now that she has the jacket and Sara's blessing.  In no world would 5-6 months be enough time to get her to match Sara's skill level, but I wouldn't be surprised if the show tried to sell that

 

5) Lyla could be in her final trimester and who knows how that affects Diggle and, by extension, the team

 

6) How far advanced will Oliver be into whatever happens in Hong Kong?

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I also think it's going to be challenging to jump ahead. It was fine when Oliver bailed on everyone and went to live on the island. I didn't need to see all of that to know his head space. Same with Felicity and Diggle - though I would have loved to see those two hanging out. Just knowing they spent the time rebuilding the lair was enough. 

 

This time, though, there's so much that could be addressed right away as evidenced by writersblock51's list. Ah well, I guess we'll see how it's handled.

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6) How far advanced will Oliver be into whatever happens in Hong Kong?

 

That's actually a really good point. If the months are rushed by we won't be able to see Oliver introduced to the Wall (properly) and members of an assumed Suicide Squad. By that time they may well have made him team captain. We're sure to see more fight training for Oliver which is cool. The time jump is really causing continuance issues now because Oliver isn't away from Starling City and it can't be brushed over with "Dig and I spent 5 months looking for you."

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The time jump is really causing continuance issues now because Oliver isn't away from Starling City and it can't be brushed over with "Dig and I spent 5 months looking for you."

 

Exactly.  This summer break is under very different story circumstances than last year.  I wish I had faith in the writers to make it work but I'm very wary about that.

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I was going to say that I thought that the Hong Kong flashbacks are the least problematic since they are flashbacks but nah, it would be better to have the flashbacks in real time too.  The other points are even more problematic.  They don't do well at the best of times, why give themselves such a large handicap?

 

"And so it begins....."

A Babylon 5 fan?

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2) Quentin's health.  I'm hoping that he survives but, of course, that means we will miss how Laurel, Sara, Dinah and Team Arrow react to his injuries and his recovery.  Maybe they will have a brief flashback?  Because if Sara and Dinah aren't a part of whatever happens to him, I'll throw something at my TV

 

Well they had Dinah who barely spoke to the daughter she thought but never was believed was dead. So I wouldn't expect much on that front. If it's been 5/6 months since the battle with Deathstroke, Quentin would pretty much be on the road to recovery and if Sara came back at all, she could've done that and left again in that amount of time. 

 

I actually find this time jump much easier to buy than the one between season 1 and 2. The city was destroyed and Oliver just left without telling anyone including his sister where he was going so he could wallow in his manpain for 5 months, then it took that long for Felicity and Diggle to track him down. 

 

This time they would be going back to Starling City and start to rebuild their lives. I could but us picking up with them 5 months later to see where they are. It would help them have to not have to show us details of how Oliver got his company back (if he gets it back) since they can't actually write a realistic storyline for that. They could just show us Laurel working in the DA's office, Quentin working on his therapy, let us know that Thea called Oliver to tell him she's settled somewhere else (leaving out the part of who she's with), Oliver at his company or show us that Felicity and Diggle have new jobs. 

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This time they would be going back to Starling City and start to rebuild their lives. I could but us picking up with them 5 months later to see where they are. It would help them have to not have to show us details of how Oliver got his company back (if he gets it back) since they can't actually write a realistic storyline for that. They could just show us Laurel working in the DA's office, Quentin working on his therapy, let us know that Thea called Oliver to tell him she's settled somewhere else (leaving out the part of who she's with), Oliver at his company or show us that Felicity and Diggle have new jobs. 

 

That's all fine and good but they're parts I'd like to see happening. Besides the Laurel part, I want to see Diggle and Lyla tell the team they're pregnant. Oliver having a choking fit that Thea's left. Roy finding out about his misdemeanor is a particular storyline I want to see because it involves Felicity. Oliver finding a new job whilst they try to get QC back would be funny to see because he's also a spoilt brat like Thea. Verdant was run by Tommy so he didn't really work there. 

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The letter she gave to Roy would make him at least somewhat anxious. The old Thea is dead? Or some such nonsense. He'd know that Thea didn't leave. Hmm I wonder if Roy will even tell him.

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I'm sure they'll save the Roy stuff for after the time jump.  They might save the Thea Queen is never coming back as well if Roy choses to hide the letter from the rest of them.  They'd already assumed she was gone anyway and Oliver would be waiting for Thea's call when she was settled but he might not expect to hear from her very soon.

 

I'd be fine skipping the part where Oliver, Dig and Felicity apply for jobs and skip to the part where they are miserable doing them.  I still see the writers being ironic and making Felicity work at a coffee shop (maybe it will be a cyber café setting so she's half IT and half barrista) Diggle I expect to be back as a body guard.  The best would be if he is body guard to a real douchebag playboy this time around.  I'm sure there will be vomit involved. 

 

Then there's Oliver.  I absolutely do not expect them to regain the rights to his company over the hiatus.  I rather suspect that story line is going to be stretched out for the season.  So what kind of job could Oliver land?  If he could get hired, he could do physical labor but that flies against his persona that he's cultivated plus who's going to hire a former CEO to haul sod around?  Maybe he will still be out of a job and doing the unemployment thing still, showing up at Felicity's work and bugging her cause he's bored.  Or maybe Roy will get him a job under the table working down at the docks or something. 

 

Thea's and Sara's stories could be picked up later even and not be IMO a problem.  Sara will just be doing routine missions until something isn't routine and Thea could spend 6 months under Merlyn's protection without having seen him too much.  He could have whisked her off to some safe house, started her physical training and then been called away, thus letting the audience be in on their interaction from the start. 

 

I'm sure Laurel will be back in the DA's office and possibly already acting DA. doing rebuild the city kind of things.  Maybe that's what Oliver will be doing as a job, just menial clean up of the destruction (again, under the table cause who would believe Oliver Queen would be willing to do manual labor?) 

 

But that leaves Quentin and unless they have stuck him in a coma, we either need a reaction to him being in the hospital or his collapse was completely pointless.  Plus then we miss out on the opportunity to advance him in the police department since he was the last remaining highest ranking officer the night of the Strokes.  I have a feeling I'm going to be irritated in how his story is handled at least initially. 

 

Now for a long term prediction. 

I think by the end of the season we will see flash back Oliver in prison on the island and perhaps current day Oliver being threatened with prison -(cue him going on the run over the next summer - insert fan fiction version where Felicity goes on the run with him.  ;D

I just have a feeling.   

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Now for a long term prediction. 

I think by the end of the season we will see flash back Oliver in prison on the island and perhaps current day Oliver being threatened with prison -(cue him going on the run over the next summer - insert fan fiction version where Felicity goes on the run with him.  ;D

I just have a feeling.   

 

Made me laugh.

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All the rest of the characters are up for grabs but it's Quentin that makes me wish they weren't going to do the five or six months jump. The last time we saw him he was collapsing from some potentially serious internal injuries. Five or six months later he'll either be:

 

Dead, which will cheat us out of seeing the reactions of Laurel, Sara and Dinah, unless of course they do flashbacks, on top of the flashbacks they're already doing flashbacks on top of.

 

In a coma the entire time, and perhaps for much of the season, which doesn't make a lot of sense with the kind of injuries he appeared to have, and would be a pretty big disservice to Paul Blackthorne's acting unless he is also working on some other show.

 

Healed and back to work, without us seeing any of the recovery, again unless they do flashbacks. Which this show loves.

 

Regardless, most shows when they end a season with a character collapsing like that they pick up the next season with him being taken to the emergency room and assuming he survives let us watch his recovery and return over the course of the season. One of the best examples of this was Josh on the West Wing. He go shot in the first season finale, was touch and go in the hospital for the first couple of episodes of season two, and was out of the office for several more. And we got to SEE all of that. Of course West Wing was an ensemble, this show is primarily about Oliver, and even if he is injured he'll be up and about the next episode, if not the same one. Still doesn't seem fair to Blackthorne though.

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There's been a lot in the media about EBR working out a lot, could this mean she might be out on the field or being trained by Digg more ??? I hope so! But then again, it could be just EBR trying to stay healthy. :p 

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There's been a lot in the media about EBR working out a lot, could this mean she might be out on the field or being trained by Digg more ??? I hope so! But then again, it could be just EBR trying to stay healthy. :p 

 

I would LOVE if Felicity put on leather and became an ass-kicker. She looked great in the episode they blew up the Applied Sciences Division. She could be the Bitch With Wifi. Criminals the world over would fear for their bank accounts.

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I am SUPER nervous about how they handle this kid storyline with Oliver. I'm sure the kid will crop up at just the wrong time, and I'm guessing he/she will not be a regular on the show - rather as something else for Oliver to feel guilty about from his past, and something else to martyr him - he sacrifices a relationship with the child to continue with his mission, or the like. I am also assuming they'll use this as an obstacle for whatever relationship Oliver has going at the time - I can't imagine Laurel's reaction if she does the math and the child was conceived when they were together. It's one thing to deal with him changing who he is, but another to have a walking, talking reminder of who he used to be.

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(edited)

For me, Laurel's reaction when she does the math and figures out when the child was conceived is the best thing  about this storyline.

 

I'm going to spoil it for you. It's going to be the exact expression she had when Slade told Laurel about Oliver being the Arrow (it's the only face she pulls when she's 'surprised' by something)

Edited by wonderwall
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I'm going to spoil it for you. It's going to be the exact expression she had when Slade told Laurel about Oliver being the Arrow (it's the only face she pulls when she's 'surprised' by something)

 

That would kill me on a whole other level. Why can't they allow her to hate Oliver and move on? He was a douche, let it be. Especially considering she didn't freak out like I thought she would after Slade told her.

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(edited)

From the Bitterness thread:

I like the idea that Felicity gets involved with someone else who she thinks is a normal nice guy and he turns out to be another vigilante hero.

 

I like this idea. Beyond setting up that Felicity has A Type (first Oliver/Arrow, then Barry/Flash, and now someone else) and finally giving her a romantic interest, it would force Oliver to re-examine his whole "I can't be with someone I could really care about because she could get hurt" idea since there is Felicity, off to possibly get hurt with someone else.

Edited by statsgirl
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The whole thing is fairly ridiculous anyway. Spider-Man and Superman both tried that with their SO's and it never worked because not being with them doesn't stop them from being menaced by Bizarro or Venom or whoever. In fact, bad guys tend to come after them as often for their being public figures, or having the bad habit of always being in the wrong place at the wrong time, as for their supposed relationship with the hero. For Oliver, look no further than Slade and Isabel. He wasn't with Felicity but that didn't stop the psychos from coming after her.

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You and I know that it's ridiculous, but that's Oliver's story and he's sticking with it.  So it's going to take some serious TNT to move him.

 

Pretty much anyone a superhero knows is going to be in danger, because that's the nature of the beast.  I remember lines that no one should live in Cabot Cove (Murder She Wrote) or be friends with MacMillan & Wife because it's too dangerouls.

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(edited)

 

 

For me, Laurel's reaction when she does the math and figures out when the child was conceived is the best thing  about this storyline.

 

I'm going to spoil it for you. It's going to be the exact expression she had when Slade told Laurel about Oliver being the Arrow (it's the only face she pulls when she's 'surprised' by something)

 

"Cat Following a Laser Dot?" or something else that an EP will inexplicably think is Emmy Worthy, I'm sure.

 

If Laurel still thinks Green Arrow Oliver craps rainbows after she does the math with his child, she's beyond hope.  Seriously, she needs to die off.

 

As for Felicity and a new love interest who isn't all that he seems (but is another vigilante), the more I think about it (which is probably more than I should), the more I like it.  And let her figure out the alter ego before Oliver does - and she still has a relationship with the guy, because, as we know, she can handle it pretty well.  THEN once Oliver realizes that she knows, he can look confused until Diggle explains it all to him.

Edited by writersblock51
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If I had to choose how the Digg/Oliver discussion would go it would go like this:

  • After the island discussion, Oliver's feelings/attraction for Felicity will become more obvious to Diggle
  • Diggle will point out that Oliver cares for her
  • Oliver will tell Digg that he can't do anything about it because of the 'life he leads'
  • Diggle will tell Oliver that's just a bunch of crap and explains why
  • Oliver will then questions whether he wants to love somebody (as SA above noted) and will war over this for a few episodes and will probably make a decision by the end of the mid season finale or by the end of the season itself. This process will only be hindered (or be helped) by the introduction of Conner
  • *prays to god nothing happens between Oliver and the baby mama*

IDK that's how I see it going :p 

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(edited)

 

After the island discussion, Oliver's feelings/attraction for Felicity will become more obvious to Diggle

I'm pretty sure Diggle knows now.  (Check out the two 'Diggle Ships Olicity' vids.)

 

In the island scene, after Oliver says he's going to get his family's company back, Felicity and Diggle look at each other and then Diggle says he's going to give them a moment and walks ahead.  That suggests to me that Felicity asked to be able to speak to Oliver privately; Diggle should have a pretty good idea of what's going on.

 

But if anyone is going to tell Oliver that his "the life I lead" rationalization is crap, it's going to have to be Diggle because Sara is gone, Roy is too young, and Quentin doesn't want to know. Diggle, who is going to be balancing baby, SO and vigilante, and has always been someone who calls people on their crap, especially Oliver.

 

I don't see how they can resist getting Oliver involved with his baby mama. It serves both as a way to stall any relationship with Felicity, and to show him how you can't fake love.

Edited by statsgirl
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But if anyone is going to tell Oliver that his "the life I lead" rationalization is crap, it's going to have to be Diggle 

 

If anyone on this show is the most mature and level headed person, it's Diggle. I can't imagine Oliver having conversations about his love life or questioning his life in general with anyone other than Diggle (and Felicity for the latter). Oliver isn't very open to anyone in his life other than his team, so it would only be realistic that he talks to Diggle. 

 

Another reason why I want to see this happen is because I want to see their relationship grow into what Digg/Felicity have. I want them to become more than partners (more like brothers who are in the fight together). Seriously though, I hope we get more Diggle in season 3. He's just too awesome to be ignored. 

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I do not see Felicity/Oliver happening anytime soon - if we get it in Season 3, it'll be end of season, going into Season 4. Lots of angst coming our way in regards to Oliver, I'm sure! I'm hoping I can get some kind of levity in Diggle or Roy or even Laurel - you gotta give me happy romance somewhere . . . 

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Here's a place to post about the direction you hope the show will go, and also what you're afraid they're going to do. This is a no spoiler area, just hopes and fears.

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A fear that I have is that Andrew Kreisburg is too married to his vision of Oliver Queen/Dinah Laurel Lance that he wrote when he was writing the GA/BC comics.  It's very hard to change something that you've created, even when it doesn't seem to be working. You just keep trying harder to make it into your original vision..

 

Having someone new on board may help the show move beyond that vision, provided she really is there for the creative aspect and not the paper-pushing..

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