Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Starfish35]

Haha yes that's what I was thinking of.

[AyChihuahua]

And here I thought puppet!Angel was the funniest Angel scene.  This is a very close competitor.

[tv echo]

Another possibility is that the EPs have planned for 2 or 3 possibilities as the death and are waiting to see how LoT does when it airs. 

 

If LoT tanks in the ratings and is cancelled after one season, then they could bring Sara Lance and/or Ray Palmer back to Arrow (or over to Flash) - which could affect who dies.  For example, Laurel could die and then Sara could change her superhero name to Black Canary in her honor.

 

If LoT succeeds, then with three other successful superhero shows (Flash, LoT, Supergirl - which I'm pretty sure will do well),  the EPs could decide to end Arrow after 5 seasons (and bring back GA, etc., only for guest shots on the other shows).  Therefore, they may not care about its ratings and decide to go all in with the comics and masks in the 5th season, and kill off Felicity (which would still be a stupid move, imo).

 

LoT's success could also affect whether or not any Arrow characters are moved over to that show and affect who dies that way.  For example, if Quentin dies, Laurel could decide to leave SC and join her sister over at LoT.  Or if Thea dies, Oliver could decide never to let another woman close to him again and break up with Felicity, and she could be moved over to LoT.

 

Lots of possibilities.

Edited October 22, 2015 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

Not terribly cheery ones, lol.

For what it's worth, I'm getting a very positive vibe off of what they are doing filming LoT, meaning I think it would have to be some kind of spectacular awful to muck this up. Oddly though in the interviews TPTB are playing it up as if they consider it a one off anthology. It sounds like they intend to blow the show up by the end of their 16 episode run.

They've said that at the end, it won't be left in a place where next season they could do any easy reset and keep going. I translated that as there will deffinately be lots of room for new cast members if they get a second season.

Edited October 22, 2015 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

Thinking about Curtis Holt and his eventual evolution into his comic counterpart. Naturally everyone that puts on a mask under goes some sort of tragedy so I wouldn't call it any kind of spoiler to speculate there is a target now on poor Curtis's husband's back, but now I'm really hoping whenever the time comes to rip the rug out from beneath him that the tragedy won't be due to Curtis having an association with Felicity or the Green Arrow.

Edited October 22, 2015 by BkWurm1

[tangerine95]

I don' think LoT being a sucess is going to affect arrow much other then we'll have more crossovers and maybe they try for another spinoff sooner then they would have if it fails.

I think they'll keep Arrow on the air as long as SA wants to.If he quits after his contract is done then maybe some characters would be moved to other shows if the actors agree.But I don't see them canceling arrow before that or suddenly deciding to stick to comic canon because I truly believe they're not all that attached to it anyway.

I really think they know exactly who is dying and are just saying they don't to avoid being asked all the time and giving anything away.They really do need this death IMO because they totally let death become irrelevant on the show since its keeps being a fake out or people come back.I think Felicity,Thea and Diggle are safe and that's really all I care about.If either one lf the Lances dies its fine by me.

[kismet]

Another possibility is that the EPs have planned for 2 or 3 possibilities as the death and are waiting to see how LoT does when it airs. 

 

If LoT tanks in the ratings and is cancelled after one season, then they could bring Sara Lance and/or Ray Palmer back to Arrow (or over to Flash) - which could affect who dies.  For example, Laurel could die and then Sara could change her superhero name to Black Canary in her honor.

 

If LoT succeeds, then with three other successful superhero shows (Flash, LoT, Supergirl - which I'm pretty sure will do well),  the EPs could decide to end Arrow after 5 seasons (and bring back GA, etc., only for guest shots on the other shows).  Therefore, they may not care about its ratings and decide to go all in with the comics and masks in the 5th season, and kill off Felicity (which would still be a stupid move, imo).

 

LoT's success could also affect whether or not any Arrow characters are moved over to that show and affect who dies that way.  For example, if Quentin dies, Laurel could decide to leave SC and join her sister over at LoT.  Or if Thea dies, Oliver could decide never to let another woman close to him again and break up with Felicity, and she could be moved over to LoT.

 

Lots of possibilities.

I could see them perhaps waiting to see how LoT does if they need to kill or not kill someone based upon if they need them move to or from LoT. For example, if LoT is not doing well and they want to keep CL, they might kill LL to make room for CL's Canary on ARROW. If LoT does well and they want morwe females, they might kill QL to move LL over to LoT. I feel like its a Lance in the grave and they might be waiting to finalize which one gets it.

 

But I don't see FS moving anywhere based upon LoT ratings. Just like I don't see her dying anytime soon. Diggle is probably also safe. Everybody else is a potential to me, but I don't think it will be heavily based upon LoT. But it might be influenced slightly.

 

I don't think ARROW is going anywhere based on LoT ratings. Arrow will probably be on the air until SA wants out. And then after that, its going to be a network/comics/TPTB conversation to see what to do with the show.

[jay741982]

LOL I remember that! I'm tempted to say ill do that dance if Laurel is in that grave OR as long as Felicity Diggle or Thea isnt in that grave I'll do that dance

[kismet]

So I watched the SA interview in the spoilers section about s4. Really good interview, not really all that spoliery. Anyway, he talks about Banfords episode and JB being able to shoot a stunt he's been working on for 20+ yrs. And it made me really look fwd to the episode. But it also made me wonder if they are giving Banford his own episode, so that they can have something to submit to the Academy to finally get Arrow some Emmy love. SA mentioned that a lot of the stunt sequences wind up in the editors hands, which could explain a lot. But if Banford is the director, he can have a more active role in editing and filming the episode to highlight the stunts to their best moments and potential.

 

I wouldn't mind having an episode that is stunt heavy, if the stunts are given the proper filming and editing they deserve. I don't want every ep of Arrow to be stunt heavy, but I do enjoy the stunts (esp in s1) and they have become a little paint by the numbers of late. If this Banford ep gets the stunts back in the limelight and recharges the Arrow stunt team - then I am all for it. Plus Banford has been with Arrow since the beginning, so I feel like his ep would probably also have good character moments since he's had to think about how these characters act & think for 4 years now.

[house864]

My theory is based on my realization that Diggles mask is an opposite version of Mr. Terrific's painted T on his face. Therefore I'm theorizing that either Curtis becomes an active member of the team and dies within sixth months and Diggle inherites the t-spheres and the name or Diggle dies and Curtis inherits his helmet in honor of team arrows fallen friend.

[Guest]

Going through my hopes for the rest of the season:

 

1) Olicity stunt and I'm not talking sex. I wouldn't say no to the sex though, let's be honest. I just mean a stunt when they're out in the field, that is if Felicity is allowed to be unchained from her computer desk.

 

2) Thea hurts Malcolm in some way, knife through the gut, slice his neck open. Not too picky.

 

3) Diggle/Felicity scene. I want a Delicity cuddle too.

 

4) A portal to another world opens up and oh no! The whole Lance family just got sucked into it and it closed up before they could do anything. Oh well. Shucks. Farewell.

 

5) No one craps all over Oliver or blames him for the history of every bad thing that ever happened.

 

6) Oliver/GA stunts by himself because, let's face it, he was doing this stuff by himself long before anyone else came along and I'm not liking how his abilities are being 'dumbed' down to let others shine.

 

7) Lyla just walks in and saves the day in one episode all while holding baby Sara like a BAMF. What, like it's hard?

Edited October 27, 2015 by Guest

[lexicon]

Going through my hopes for the rest of the season:

 

1) Olicity stunt and I'm not talking sex. I wouldn't say no to the sex though, let's be honest. I just mean a stunt when they're out in the field, that is if Felicity is allowed to be unchained from her computer desk.

 

2) Thea hurts Malcolm in some way, knife through the gut, slice his neck open. Not too picky.

 

3) Diggle/Felicity scene. I want a Delicity cuddle too.

 

4) A portal to another world opens up and oh no! The whole Lance family just got sucked into it and it closed up before they could do anything. Oh well. Shucks. Farewell.

 

5) No one craps all over Oliver or blames him for the history of every bad thing that ever happened.

 

6) Oliver/GA stunts by himself because, let's face it, he was doing this stuff by himself long before anyone else came along and I'm not liking how his abilities are being 'dumbed' down to let others shine.

 

7) Lyla just walks in and saves the day in one episode all while holding baby Sara like a BAMF. What, like it's hard?

 

I love everything about this post. 

[kismet]

I hope we find out that TQ was actually not the one who killed SL and that was all part of MM's plan which means that SL doesn't have to go after TQ to solve her LP side effects. But rather whoever MM actually hired to do the deed and bonus points if it is actually him. I sorta want a long ball game set-up with MM knowing he is in  multiple people's cross-hairs and its only a matter of time before someone succeeds in killing him.

[Chaser]

I want someone to shoot him on the toilet.

[AyChihuahua]

I want someone to shoot him on the toilet.

I don't watch Game of Thrones, and even I got that reference.  And yeah, that'd work for me.

[Chaser]

What about Mark Pellegrino for Felicity's Father?

[SonofaBiscuit]

Any theories on what Laurel will be doing in season 4B?  I was thinking that maybe they'd kill Lance off and have Laurel "honor his memory" by joining the police force (btw, this is a fear, not a hope).  She's got the fighting skills now, apparently, and she seems to like beating criminals up with her police baton.  But this wouldn't give her anything to do until Lance kicks the bucket, so what will she be doing in the meantime?   I suppose she could open up a flower shop and make a killing on flower sales for the impending Queen/Smoak wedding.   

[kismet]

Any theories on what Laurel will be doing in season 4B?  I was thinking that maybe they'd kill Lance off and have Laurel "honor his memory" by joining the police force (btw, this is a fear, not a hope).  She's got the fighting skills now, apparently, and she seems to like beating criminals up with her police baton.  But this wouldn't give her anything to do until Lance kicks the bucket, so what will she be doing in the meantime?   I suppose she could open up a flower shop and make a killing on flower sales for the impending Queen/Smoak wedding.   

Don't honestly know, don't honestly care. SorryNotSorry. I spent the Summer hiatus dreaming up ways they could make LL's story and character more relevant & interesting. The writers have seriously failed her character for another season in a row. I'm gonna spend the next few months wondering why there are so few floral sprays at her gravesite or on my less angry days if she takes a bus or train out of town.

[tv echo]

Comics aside, here's another reason I don't think Laurel will be the one in the grave.  I think the EPs have this thing for sisters, and Laurel & Sara are the only sisterly relationship on Arrow - yes, they're going to be on different shows, but the potential for crossovers is there. 

 

On Arrow, you had the sister rivalry over Oliver, the sister-swapping (a few times), the sister wearing her dead sister's clothes & wig and SWFing the dead sister, and the sister 'grieving' so much she had to resurrect her dead sister. 

 

On Supergirl, they gave Kara a foster sister, Alex, who also has this competitive vibe with her 'sister'.  Plus, you have Kara's mother having an evil twin, Aunt Astra, who's apparently dealing with sister issues of her own, even though her sister is dead.

 

No sisters on The Flash (yet).

[Password]

Well...if Oliver and Felicity get married, Thea and Felicity would be sisters in law.

Good enough for me.

[Primal Slayer]

Watching Agents of Shield has really made me wish they would break the group into different missions during certain episodes more often. They all don't always have to be fighting a big group of Ghosts. Would really help make the stunts tighter and more polished.

[nksarmi]

So I had a random thought today while trying to figure out why Darkh is holding Ray captive and the only thing I could come up with is that Ray would be a symbol of hope and provide leadership to save the city.  He must be hoping Felicty causes Palmer Tech to go under.  So, if that's the case, then I started wondering why exactly Darkh wants Starling City to fail so badly and the only thing I can come up with is Constantine's rambling about how there are nexus that draw evil to them and the island is one.

 

Well since people have been comparing Darkh to the Mayor on Buffy - what if they are going full on rip off and making Starling City one of those nexus that just draws evil to it?  They have been really hitting the nail on the head this season about how it's a dying city and everyone is leaving, etc...  And that seems to be what Darkh wants.  So what if that's because there is some kind of center of power located in the city - and you know if there is, it's in the Glades.

 

Anyway, just one speculation on where this all is headed and how they might explain away the fact that no, it's not all Oliver's fault that bad things are happening in Starling City.  The city is just really sitting on a hellmouth. :)

Edited November 6, 2015 by nksarmi

[Sakura12]

I think I would've loved a Buffy's Mayor rip off, of Darhk resurrecting Sara and using crazy memory less Sara as his second in command and making her think he's her father or something. Then we could've seen Team Arrow trying to get to the Leader Ghost only to find out it's Sara. 

 

Don't care what Because Comics storyline would've been but at least she wouldn't have looked like a delusional loon. 

Edited November 6, 2015 by Sakura12

[Primal Slayer]

I think I would've loved a Buffy's Mayor rip off, of Darhk resurrecting Sara and using crazy memory less Sara as his second in command and making him think he's her father or something. Then we could've seen Team Arrow trying to get to the Leader Ghost only to find out it's Sara.

Don't care what Because Comics storyline would've been but at least she wouldn't have looked like a delusional loon.

If only. But that takes a bit of thought which they don't have time for.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they're all but saying SC is a hellmouth.

[BkWurm1]

So I had a random thought today while trying to figure out why Darkh is holding Ray captive and the only thing I could come up with is that Ray would be a symbol of hope and provide leadership to save the city.  He must be hoping Felicty causes Palmer Tech to go under.  So, if that's the case, then I started wondering why exactly Darkh wants Starling City to fail so badly and the only thing I can come up with is Constantine's rambling about how there are nexus that draw evil to them and the island is one.

 

Well since people have been comparing Darkh to the Mayor on Buffy - what if they are going full on rip off and making Starling City one of those nexus that just draws evil to it?  They have been really hitting the nail on the head this season about how it's a dying city and everyone is leaving, etc...  And that seems to be what Darkh wants.  So what if that's because there is some kind of center of power located in the city - and you know if there is, it's in the Glades.

 

Anyway, just one speculation on where this all is headed and how they might explain away the fact that no, it's not all Oliver's fault that bad things are happening in Starling City.  The city is just really sitting on a hellmouth. :)

They'll throw another name on it than hellmouth but I really like that there will be a real explanation for why Starling has been such a mess.  It hasn't always been this way.  Maybe something triggered it? 

[dtissagirl]

The Earthquake machine woke up the giant monster that lives under the city [from beneath you it devoooours!] bc OBVIOUSLY EVERYTHING IS MALCOLM'S FAULT.

[AyChihuahua]

The Earthquake machine woke up the giant monster that lives under the city [from beneath you it devoooours!] bc OBVIOUSLY EVERYTHING IS MALCOLM'S FAULT.

He really is the First Evil of the show, for all intents and purposes.

[Sakura12]

Haha. Now I'm going to think of Oliver as Buffy and Sara as Faith. (although Sara can be Buffy as well with dying and being resurrected)

[Primal Slayer]

Oliver is not as cool to be anywhere close to Buffy.

[nksarmi]

The Earthquake machine woke up the giant monster that lives under the city [from beneath you it devoooours!] bc OBVIOUSLY EVERYTHING IS MALCOLM'S FAULT.

That's what I was thinking. :)

[kismet]

The Earthquake machine woke up the giant monster that lives under the city [from beneath you it devoooours!] bc OBVIOUSLY EVERYTHING IS MALCOLM'S FAULT.

Or because they love MM so much. He was trying to fix the problem the whole time. They will Snape him by the end of this if the nexus of evil is their big plan.

But I seriously don't think they are making SC a nexus of evil.

Edited November 6, 2015 by kismet

[BkWurm1]

Maybe there is just an object that needs to be returned to some nexus of evil that has been bringing bad ju ju to the town in the meantime? 

 

Of course it's weak but EVERY year someone is trying to destroy the city.  I would think just for originality's sake the next big bad would want to pick a different city for fear the history books might get him (or her) mixed up with last year's attempt. 

[kismet]

I personally hope that DD had RP captive because RP betrayed him. I want the reason DD set his sights on SC was because RP got in bed with the wrong guy. It could be a similar story to QL. DD seemed like a caring benefactor and RP clung onto him. Maybe that's why he signed his company over to FS in case of his demise. Because really what other reason makes sense? Once he realized how deep he was in with DD, he knew ths only way out was likely death at DDs hand.

He said in the video it was all his fault. Don't disappoint me show! Let Shrinkage get some shine off his morally superior suit. We all know the LoT needs reasons to be recruited. RP joining to repair the bad he helped cause sounds like good rationale to me.

[nksarmi]

Eh I kind of like Ray as a boy scout. I don't think all heroes need to be complex with an edge. I like Ray losing his fiance as his motivation and I think if they didn't pair him with Felicity, people would hace liked him better.

Plus LoT has enough complex characters. They need a boy scout to round them out a bit. If I had to make a guess, id say rip recruits him before he goes public that he is alive so only a few people know he survived

[dtissagirl]

 I think if they didn't pair him with Felicity, people would hace liked him better.

 

I still have nightmares that his creepy crazy eyes are gonna come out of the TV and eat my brain, so: nopety nope nope.

[Sakura12]

I don't think making up for something is a prerequisite to be a LoT. Stein, Jax and Hawkgirl are good people, I think Ray is on that side as well. They have Sara, Cold and Heatwave as the bad ones. 

[nksarmi]

I still have nightmares that his creepy crazy eyes are gonna come out of the TV and eat my brain, so: nopety nope nope.

LOL

 

I actually like Ray when he isn't electrocuting Roy.

[dtissagirl]

I wanted to like him so hard. And then Brandon Routh happened. Forever bitter.

[kismet]

I recently rewatched s3. It was very tragic and scarring. But I really don't think RP was either written or acted as all that much of a Boy Scout. If I remember correctly, even in comics he has a little edge to him.

While I agree with @sakura12 that it might not be a prerequisite to be making up for something to join LoT. I do want there to be a better reason than Shrinkage is dead to the world so that makes it easier for him to join. It also makes it seem like he is more expendable that way which makes sense for Argus and gov't, but I want more from Rips recruitment tactics.

His fiancee as motivation worked for me until they dropped it to have RP jump in FS bed at the first opportunity and she was never mentioned again. So unless LoT wants to revive that portion of his origin story, I consider that reason behind his hero origin DOA.

[KenyaJ]

I like Ray losing his fiance as his motivation and I think if they didn't pair him with Felicity, people would hace liked him better.

 

I don't. A lot of us in the spoiler thread were very receptive to the idea of Ray before we actually saw him. And there are a lot of Olicity fans who liked Felicity with Barry. So I think it has nothing to do with Ray being a speedbump for Olicity and everything with the writers bungling the execution of Ray as a character.

[nksarmi]

No I didn't mean fans would have liked him if he wasn't a roadblock to Olicity - I mean a lot of fans did not like anything about his pairing with Felicity.  They didn't like him "stalking" her, they didn't like him being her boss and hitting on her, they didn't like how quickly his fiancé got dropped from the story and how "in love" he thought he was with Felicity, they didn't like how she was written around him, etc....

 

However, once they stopped writing them as a pair and started writing him as a character intended for the spin-off - he started clicking better for those who were willing to overlook the bad start they had already given him.  So I dare say that if they had always written him like they did the last couple of episodes, he might have been better received. 

 

So, I really do think he will be fine on the spin-off the way he ended season three (really smart, kind of funny, quirky and cute).  And compared to the rest of the cast of characters on LoT (particularly the males), I'd still refer to him as the boy scout of the series.  Plus, I kind of expect his character to be a lot of the comedy of the series as opposed to the drama, but if they do want to do drama with his characters - I think they will center it around him seeing his dead fiancé in the past or something like that.

[AyChihuahua]

I still have nightmares that his creepy crazy eyes are gonna come out of the TV and eat my brain, so: nopety nope nope.

I really get tired of people telling me why I dislike something.  I was LOOKING FORWARD TO A NON-OLIVER LI FOR FELICITY (emphasis not aimed at you).  I hate the Cane Toad BECAUSE he is a Cane Toad.  Please don't anyone tell me that my reasons for not liking a character are not my real actual reasons, and that I'm lying either to myself or the world.  I very rarely lie, and I never lie to myself, and the implication that I am or that I don't know my mind is quite offensive.  I hate the Cane Toad because he is a misogynistic lying manipulative user asshole.  None of those reasons are in ANY WAY affected by him dating Felicity.

So I think it has nothing to do with Ray being a speedbump for Olicity and everything with the writers bungling the execution of Ray as a character.

I agree, but I also agree with dtissagirl, that I thought Brandon Routh was terrible in the role.  I think I was basically neutral to the guy before.  I never saw his Superman (HATE the actress who played Lois Lane) and actually liked him in that crazy movie in which he fights zombies and such in, I think, New Orleans.  But while the writing was the biggest miss for me, the bug-eyed acting (and the constant pinkeye, I'm sure it's not his fault but it grossed me the hell out), the acting didn't just fail to elevate the bad writing, it actually made it even worse.

Edited November 7, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[KenyaJ]

No I didn't mean fans would have liked him if he wasn't a roadblock to Olicity - I mean a lot of fans did not like anything about his pairing with Felicity.  They didn't like him "stalking" her, they didn't like him being her boss and hitting on her, they didn't like how quickly his fiancé got dropped from the story and how "in love" he thought he was with Felicity, they didn't like how she was written around him, etc....

 

Ah, gotcha. Sorry for misunderstanding/misinterpreting what you wrote! And yes, in this respect, ITA with you.

[dtissagirl]

I still don't understand why didn't they embrace him being an arrogant douchey genius playboy billionaire philantropist. I wanted a dude with Tony Stark's personality cockblocking O/F [or Smallville's Oliver Queen pre-Chloe, even.], and instead I got the writers selling Whitebread, while I was getting Creeper Stalker. Such a waste.

Edited November 8, 2015 by dtissagirl

[AyChihuahua]

I still don't understand why didn't they embrace him being an arrogant douchey genius playboy billionaire philantropist. I wanted a dude with Tony Stark's personalitiy cockblocking O/F [or Smallville's Oliver Queen pre-Chloe, even.], and instead I got the writers selling Whitebread, while I was getting Creeper Stalker. Such a waste.

Not that I think this is why, because I expect they had the character's personality in mind prior to casting, but I really don't think Brandon Routh could have pulled that off.  A HUGE, ENORMOUS part of the reason, like 95% of it, that Tony Stark is so unutterably awesome is RDJ.  Very few actors can pull off being arrogant douchebags while somehow being unbelievably charming.  I can't figure out how RDJ does it.

[dtissagirl]

Oh, yeah, in my alternate universe scenario, Brandon Routh never even went into acting. He's a dentist or something.

[apinknightmare]

Very few actors can pull off being arrogant douchebags while somehow being unbelievably charming.  I can't figure out how RDJ does it.

 

I'm not saying this to be offensive—at all—but I think it might have something to do with the addict part of his personality. A lot of them are effortlessly charming (in my experience). Helps them get what they want - maybe he was able to channel that in a positive way?

Edited November 8, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

RDJ is in a completely different league, but I think someone like Wilson Bethel could pull it off. Or Jason Dohring.

But then it wouldn't be whitebread streamlined yawn-y Ray Palmer.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm not saying this to be offensive—at all—but I think it might have something to do with the addict part of his personality. A lot of them are effortlessly charming (in my experience). Helps them get what they want - maybe he was able to channel that in a positive way?

That makes sense.  I really hope he never falls off the wagon again.  His Tony Stark one of the biggest casting successes in film history IMO.  He's also really good as a different version of Sherlock Holmes, and I loved him in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.  Which I had to watch like four times to figure out what happened, but I loved regardless.  (I had the same experience with Gosford Park.  Totally loved it, had almost no idea what was going on until I watched it several times.)

but I think someone like Wilson Bethel could pull it off. Or Jason Dohring.

Wilson Bethel could probably do it, if he could pull off the really smart vibe.  Someone else suggested the non-Amell guy from Tomorrow People, who's now in Agents of SHIELD, and I think that could have worked.  

 

As an aside, the first time Wade and Zoe did the deed on Hart of Dixie is one of my favorite network love scenes, ever.  Shockingly hot.  

Edited November 8, 2015 by AyChihuahua