S05.E13: The Skinny

[Brooks]

13 minutes ago, cherenkov said:

Everything you just said is completely scientifically wrong except that you can increase the energy expenditure by exercising.

That increase, however, can always easily be offset or even completely eclipsed by increased intake. The increase isn't that much (I get about 110 extra calories per mile of running) and it isn't a permanent addition to your daily TDEE unless you do the exercise that day.

The fact is that when it comes purely to weight gain or loss, the only thing that matters is whether the calories going in are more, less, or the same as the calories going out. It has been proven multiple times in various studies and experiments.

Including a professor who went on a diet largely consisting of Twinkies for ten weeks just to prove that as long as there is a calorie deficit weight loss will happen. 

No, because you're ignoring homeostasis and twisting what CI/CO is.  The body MUST keep certain life-sustaining systems going.  If there aren't enough calories it MUST reduce or shut down elsewhere.  Of course you can lose weight on Twinkies, but it may be a much more painful time than a different meal plan.  Whitney with her high sugar and refined carb diet is just making it so much harder on herself, and promoting gut microbes that will also scream at her to eat more sugar and refined carbs.   

[cherenkov]

1 minute ago, Brooks said:

No, because you're ignoring homeostasis and twisting what CI/CO is.  The body MUST keep certain life-sustaining systems going.  If there aren't enough calories it MUST reduce or shut down elsewhere.  Of course you can lose weight on Twinkies, but it may be a much more painful time than a different meal plan.  Whitney with her high sugar and refined carb diet is just making it so much harder on herself, and promoting gut microbes that will also scream at her to eat more sugar and refined carbs.   

You're talking about actual starvation which Whitney isn't even close to experiencing and never has been. The point at which your body starts "shutting down elsewhere" as you're describing is not going to come from her eating at a deficit of 1000 or 2000 calories a day - not at her current size. That kind of starvation happens after you've lost all your extra fat, and your essential fat, and you are starving to death.

Whitney look like she's ever been starving to death?

[Brooks]

I'm not talking about starvation.  The body must compensate for fewer calories.  It can reduce its energy needs as an alternative to just burning fat stores to make it up.  If that were not the case then losing weight would be a snap, not a struggle.  Lowered body heat is an example of a safe reduction in energy use that doesn't help us lose weight. 

[cherenkov]

58 minutes ago, Brooks said:

I'm not talking about starvation.  The body must compensate for fewer calories.  It can reduce its energy needs as an alternative to just burning fat stores to make it up.  If that were not the case then losing weight would be a snap, not a struggle.  Lowered body heat is an example of a safe reduction in energy use that doesn't help us lose weight. 

Gonna just go with:

 

Every excuse Whitney and Ashley offered regarding why Whitney supposedly "cannot" lose weight is utterly wrong. Whitney can lose weight. She just chooses not to because it would take making the conscious choice to do something that isn't always fun. She doesn't want to stop overeating. She wants that pleasure hit of shoveling food into her mouth. She's a food addict.

Ashley's problem is that she believes Whitney's lies.

[AZChristian]

Slight modification . . . 

[Ketzel]

56 minutes ago, cherenkov said:

Whitney can lose weight.

Of course she can lose weight - as she keeps reminding us, she LOST 100 LBS.  But that was because of her massive willpower (no pun intended, Will Powell) or her eating disorders, depending on when she's telling the story, which practically drove her to not eating at all.  She always stops there. We never hear about how she didn't keep it off.  Perhaps one could argue that, if she was losing the weight through binging and purging, it might have been a healthy choice to stop the dieting. But if she was apparently able to make the decision not to binge and purge without any assistance, and then stick to that decision, that still doesn't explain why she regained the 100 lbs., plus. I should add that Whitney, when being interviewed by Will on his eating protocols videos, has said that she was purging without binging; she was eliminating healthy foods in reasonable portions. Allow me to doubt that. Whitney has never shown any evidence, and indeed has frequently said, that she knows nothing about healthy eating and portion sizes. I think she was, in fact, binging on all kinds of crap, and then purging to accomplish her 100 Lb. loss, and she gained it all back when she gave up purging. She never gave up binging on junk food.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Ketzel

[Dot]

3 hours ago, cherenkov said:

 

Quote

 

the only thing that matters is whether the calories going in are more, less, or the same as the calories going out. It has been proven multiple times in various studies and experiments.

Including a professor who went on a diet largely consisting of Twinkies for ten weeks just to prove that as long as there is a calorie deficit weight loss will happen. 

 

 

I agree that CICO is the primary factor in weight gain or loss. But I do think that other factors are in play. For example, I have read that someone who was a chubby kid has developed more fat cells than a normal-sized kid. And that those cells never go away, so an adult who was large as a kid will lose wgt slower than an adult who wasn't.

And men have fewer fat cells than women. If that professor who went on a Twinkie diet were a woman comparably dropping her intake, she would have lost wgt -- CICO -- but at a much slower rate. I think that's what others in the forum are pointing out.

Not that I believe for a minute that Twit wasn't secretly eating in a parking lot while she & Ashley dieted. But I also can believe that even if Twit had been honest, it is entirely possible that she would not lose wgt as fast as Ashley.

[cherenkov]

4 minutes ago, Ketzel said:

Of course she can lose weight - as she keeps reminding us, she LOST 100 LBS.  But that was because of her massive willpower (no pun intended, Will Powell) or her eating disorders, depending on when she's telling the story, which practically drove her to not eating at all.  She always stops there. We never hear about how she didn't keep it off.  Perhaps one could argue that, if she was losing the weight through binging and purging, it might have been a healthy choice to stop the dieting. But if she was apparently able to make the decision not to binge and purge without any assistance, and then stick to that decision, that still doesn't explain why she regained the 100 lbs., plus. I should add that Whitney, when being interviewed by Will on his eating protocols videos, has said that she was purging without binging; she was eliminating healthy foods in reasonable portions. Allow me to doubt that. Whitney has never shown any evidence, and indeed has frequently said, that she knows nothing about healthy eating and portion sizes. I think she was, in fact, binging on all kinds of crap, and then purging to accomplish her 100 Lb. loss, and she gained it all back when she gave up purging. She never gave up binging on junk food.

On the contrary we have seen direct evidence that what Whitney believes a portion of food should be is actually significantly larger than the true portion sizes. Recall the containers that Glenn showed her? She scoffed at the idea that they were for a portion.

[cherenkov]

5 minutes ago, Dot said:

I agree that CICO is the primary factor in weight gain or loss. But I do think that other factors are in play. For example, I have read that someone who was a chubby kid has developed more fat cells than a normal-sized kid. And that those cells never go away, so an adult who was large as a kid will lose wgt slower than an adult who wasn't.

And men have fewer fat cells than women. If that professor who went on a Twinkie diet were a woman comparably dropping her intake, she would have lost wgt -- CICO -- but at a much slower rate. I think that's what others in the forum are pointing out.

Not that I believe for a minute that Twit wasn't secretly eating in a parking lot while she & Ashley dieted. But I also can believe that even if Twit had been honest, it is entirely possible that she would not lose wgt as fast as Ashley.

A woman the same height and weight as a man will lose weight slower on the same number of calories going in than a man will because men have a higher BMR than women do, but if the actual deficit is the same, they will lose at the same rate.

Our measurements of calories in and calories out at home aren't super precise, but they are good enough for a person outside a laboratory to use. If you want to get really technical about how well we can control weight purely based on CICO: NASA is so good at it that they can put someone in bed, lying down, for 30 days and controlled weight to within a range of -4 kg and +2.3 kg during the duration of the nutrient study and noted that the subject gaining the 2.3 kg did so during the part of the study that was not strict bed rest. Weight was completely controllable by adjusting caloric intake for all of the subjects, male and female. A three percent variation in a 150 pound person is 4.5 pounds.

They were not fed a different diet or macronutrient ratio based upon gender. The only difference used was the caloric difference based on the NEAT calculation and the observed results of the weigh ins.

[Ketzel]

39 minutes ago, cherenkov said:

On the contrary we have seen direct evidence that what Whitney believes a portion of food should be is actually significantly larger than the true portion sizes. Recall the containers that Glenn showed her? She scoffed at the idea that they were for a portion.

On the contrary to what?  This? 

1 hour ago, Ketzel said:

Whitney has never shown any evidence, and indeed has frequently said, that she knows nothing about healthy eating and portion sizes

Aren't we saying the same thing? *Ketzel, confused*

[Dot]

18 minutes ago, Ketzel said:

On the contrary to what?  This? 

Aren't we saying the same thing? *Ketzel, confused*

Yeah, @Ketzel, I thought that, too.

[LordOfLotion]

6 hours ago, goodbyeglittergirl said:

PCOS is a syndrome which means it's a collection of symptoms. Not every person gets every symptom. Some people with PCOS have all of the symptoms; some people have only one or two. So it's completely possible for someone with PCOS to be skinny - just less likely. But there are plenty of "skinny cysters," as they are called in the PCOS community, who still deal with some of the problems like irregular ovulation but who don't have the weight issues.

For those snarking on the story Ashley told about Whit and Ashley being on the same diet and Whitney not losing weight - I fully believe her. This is part of what PCOS can do. People like to preach that it's calories in, calories out, but when you have PCOS that is just NOT the way your body works. It doesn't mean you cannot lose weight, but that it is MUCH slower (and thus frustrating) and you can drive yourself crazy comparing your weight loss to the weight loss of someone without PCOS. Also, Whit had ED in high school, which messes with your metabolism. So I do believe that losing weight for her is not as easy as going on Weight Watchers or something.  The combo of a shot metabolism and PCOS absolutely would slow weight loss to a crawl even when following a diet to a T. 

I find the snark on Whitney's dress so frustrating and also amusing. You hated her swimsuits. You hated her leggings. Now you hate this full coverage dress. Maybe just be honest and say that you hate her body in general and nothing she would put on it would please you? 

I hope poor Heather has some counseling and finds some peace about the Buddy stuff. She's still so caught up in it in this reunion show. He is NOT a good match for her situation with 2 small kids, etc. 

The point is that Whitney can lose weight, even if everything you say about PCOS and a shot metabolism is true. It may be slow, but it's possible. She did it once-- 100lbs, as she always reminds us, but it was like a David Blaine magic trick. The trick isn't to just quit because of an eating disorder. The trick is to stop the unhealthy behavior and to keep up the weight loss with healthy eating. But, like David Blaine, she just sat there instead of trying to actually do something.

I think the snark on her clothing comes from the fact that she seems to deliberately choose pieces that are unflattering and expose or emphasize her body or body parts, when even a lot of thin people wouldn't do it. I'm not sure what's flattering or appropriate at 400lbs, but what she wears isn't it. The giant flowers make her look like a couch. Nobody should be running around in a sports bra and leggings. I don't care if soccer moms do it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

I don't hate Whitney's body. I would argue that anyone who does hate Whitney's body doesn't hate it more than Whitney does. Whitney is the one who is actively doing bad things to her body. She's killing herself, and it's not because anyone online told her to do it. She is eating herself to death and those exercise videos are a scam, just like those diet videos with Will. She is getting fatter and she is going to die young, not because someone else hates her body, but because she hates it.

Heather is an idiot.

[cherenkov]

1 hour ago, Ketzel said:

On the contrary to what?  This? 

Aren't we saying the same thing? *Ketzel, confused*

Right what I was going for is:

You are correct, we have never seen evidence that Whitney knows what an actual portion size is. We have seen evidence to the contrary - absolute proof that what Whitney thinks a portion size is bears no resemblance to reality.

We have evidence, it just proves the exact opposite.

[Ketzel]

13 minutes ago, cherenkov said:

Right what I was going for is:

You are correct, we have never seen evidence that Whitney knows what an actual portion size is. We have seen evidence to the contrary - absolute proof that what Whitney thinks a portion size is bears no resemblance to reality.

We have evidence, it just proves the exact opposite.

Ah, got it. Thanks for clarifying.

[Alapaki]

36 minutes ago, LordOfLotion said:

The point is that Whitney can lose weight, even if everything you say about PCOS and a shot metabolism is true. It may be slow, but it's possible. She did it once-- 100lbs, as she always reminds us, but it was like a David Blaine magic trick. The trick isn't to just quit because of an eating disorder. The trick is to stop the unhealthy behavior and to keep up the weight loss with healthy eating. But, like David Blaine, she just sat there instead of trying to actually do something.

I think the snark on her clothing comes from the fact that she seems to deliberately choose pieces that are unflattering and expose or emphasize her body or body parts, when even a lot of thin people wouldn't do it. I'm not sure what's flattering or appropriate at 400lbs, but what she wears isn't it. The giant flowers make her look like a couch. Nobody should be running around in a sports bra and leggings. I don't care if soccer moms do it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

I don't hate Whitney's body. I would argue that anyone who does hate Whitney's body doesn't hate it more than Whitney does. Whitney is the one who is actively doing bad things to her body. She's killing herself, and it's not because anyone online told her to do it. She is eating herself to death and those exercise videos are a scam, just like those diet videos with Will. She is getting fatter and she is going to die young, not because someone else hates her body, but because she hates it.

Heather is an idiot.

I agree with @LordOfLotion  

While I think it’s now clear that “calories-in-calories-out” grossly oversimplifies the way the human body processes and metabolizes food, especially for people with metabolic disorders, this is just one more reason why Whitney has to be extremely careful and attentive to what she eats!!!

The fact that Whitney cries PCOS out of one side of her mouth and brags about not focusing on her diet out of the other side just reinforces what a complete fraud she is.  

If she really cared about PCOS and helping other people who have it, she’d try modeling the proper approach to exercise and diet that PCOS requires.

[LocalGovt]

On 4/4/2018 at 7:23 PM, Ketzel said:

Well, let's see. In Season 1 we saw Babs taking care of Whitney's personal grooming when Whitney merrily confessed she was unable to shave her own legs. This started some discussion over what other bodily needs Whitney might have trouble with because of her size.  Subsequently, (in the third season) Whitney and Buddy moved into the current house together, and the show tried very hard to sell the idea that they were a couple co-habiting. Sparked in part, I think, by the scene where Whitney demands that Todd put her shoes on because she couldn't reach them, there was some discussion here over how/if Buddy was capable of doing the type of caretaking that had previously been discussed. (Clip of Buddy rescuing Whitney from shower and not happy about being asked to rub her back with ointment.) It's fair to say there was a whole lot of skepticism about the relationship, let alone the grooming issues, expressed at the time. Now we know that Donna was living in the house, but at the time, the show audience, at least, did not know she existed.

Then came the infamous scene (in the 4th season) where Babs and Glenn were visiting the new house "unannounced" and "accidentally" opened the door to Whitney's bedroom, to find Whitney naked on her bed and Donna with her hands on Whitney's boobs, "giving her a massage."  Whitney thought this was hilarious and we all (a) learned of Donna's existence and (b) learned that Whitney didn't know how to pronounce the word "sensuous."

In the next episode, Babs asks Whitney if she is bi-sexual and in a Lesbian relationship with Donna, and assures Whitney it is A-OK with Babs if she is. Here's the clip (scroll all the way down the page to get to the video.) Whitney denied the relationship, but now Donna was on the show radar (and attending the cruises).

From this point Donna starts to pop up more frequently in Whitney's Facebook life.  Video of Donna and Whitney uh wrestling?  (There is at least one other video example of Donna and Whitney laughing hysterically and making "sexy" faces at each other and the camera.) She has on several occasions mock-complained about how much time and attention Whitney needs. She was helping Whitney check in guests for the first cruise. She appeared to have been involved in helping Whitney assemble the Avi whiteboard. She went on the trip to Hawaii and shared Whitney's suite. Only once, to my recollection has the show mentioned Donna travelled for business, but what she does has never been mentioned, and there's no reason to believe it. The producers have spent three four seasons trying to hide the fact that Donna lives in the same house as Whitney and Buddy because they were milking the "will Whitney and Buddy fall in lerve or just stay roomies?" storyline for all it was worth - with Heather in the mix as an intriguing complication. So maybe they have just switched to pretending Donna isn't there very often?

tl:dr   But to sum up briefly - We know Whitney needs regular  assistance due to her physical issues, most caused by her weight. We know her mother was doing the assisting when Whitney lived at home. We know she would still need the help after she moved to her own house.  We know Buddy isn't capable/interested in providing it. We know Whitney and Donna have a very handsy, huggy, kissy relationship, so clearly Donna has no big issue with touching Whitney as required for her routine maintenance. We know Donna lives in Whitney's house and travels with her, at least in connection with the show.  We know Whitney calls her Boo Boo.  We know they deny they are Lesbian lovers. And from all this is drawn the conclusion that Donna is caretaker for Whitney, whether paid or unpaid is not known. Maybe she looks after her just as a friend. But someone has to be doing the shaving, etc. and it seems plausible that the person is Donna.

Sorry Globegrl, you probably weren't expecting this much answer, but I happen to be stuck in a hospital waiting room with nothing but my laptop again, and that tends to encourage my odd research obsession with this show.

Why, oh why did I click on that link?  Whitney wheezing and coughing up a lung is not attractive.  Are they high in this clip, or what? 

[Me from ME]

Quote

Whitney with her high sugar and refined carb diet is just making it so much harder on herself, and promoting gut microbes that will also scream at her to eat more sugar and refined carbs.   

So now when I am eating Kim-Chi (which I did this morning for breakfast) I tell myself I'm eating for two...billion. I read the article in Scientific American when one of you mentioned that research. I have noticed when I avoid sugar I really don't want it that much and even things like onions taste sweet. I just love the idea that a healthy diet will have my good microbes calling out for more.

Whitney may not be starving but I would wager that she is malnourished.

[Kaia40]

7 hours ago, cherenkov said:

Gonna just go with:

 

Every excuse Whitney and Ashley offered regarding why Whitney supposedly "cannot" lose weight is utterly wrong. Whitney can lose weight. She just chooses not to because it would take making the conscious choice to do something that isn't always fun. She doesn't want to stop overeating. She wants that pleasure hit of shoveling food into her mouth. She's a food addict.

Ashley's problem is that she believes Whitney's lies.

100%!  On my 600lb life this week there was a mother and daughter on the same exact diet that Dr. Now gave them.  The daughter lost only 12lbs and the mother lost 64lbs in a month.  Guess what? The daughter exercised 4 days a week!! When Dr. Now questioned her, the daughter admitted to cheating a lot when she wasn’t with her Mom. Dr. Now explained it has nothing to do with medical conditions or any other excuse, it’s about food intake. He has proven that on every episode! He has had patients with every illness known (I’m sure including PCOS and Insulin resistance) and when they are hospitalized on a restricted diet, they lose a lot of weight!!! I can understand someone gaining 30 to even 50lbs due to a medical condition.  But there is no medical excuse good enough for being close to 400lbs and 250lbs overweight!!! So yes, she was cheating on the diet with Ashley!

[Kaia40]

On 4/4/2018 at 7:23 PM, Ketzel said:

Well, let's see. In Season 1 we saw Babs taking care of Whitney's personal grooming when Whitney merrily confessed she was unable to shave her own legs. This started some discussion over what other bodily needs Whitney might have trouble with because of her size.  Subsequently, (in the third season) Whitney and Buddy moved into the current house together, and the show tried very hard to sell the idea that they were a couple co-habiting. Sparked in part, I think, by the scene where Whitney demands that Todd put her shoes on because she couldn't reach them, there was some discussion here over how/if Buddy was capable of doing the type of caretaking that had previously been discussed. (Clip of Buddy rescuing Whitney from shower and not happy about being asked to rub her back with ointment.) It's fair to say there was a whole lot of skepticism about the relationship, let alone the grooming issues, expressed at the time. Now we know that Donna was living in the house, but at the time, the show audience, at least, did not know she existed.

Then came the infamous scene (in the 4th season) where Babs and Glenn were visiting the new house "unannounced" and "accidentally" opened the door to Whitney's bedroom, to find Whitney naked on her bed and Donna with her hands on Whitney's boobs, "giving her a massage."  Whitney thought this was hilarious and we all (a) learned of Donna's existence and (b) learned that Whitney didn't know how to pronounce the word "sensuous."

In the next episode, Babs asks Whitney if she is bi-sexual and in a Lesbian relationship with Donna, and assures Whitney it is A-OK with Babs if she is. Here's the clip (scroll all the way down the page to get to the video.) Whitney denied the relationship, but now Donna was on the show radar (and attending the cruises).

From this point Donna starts to pop up more frequently in Whitney's Facebook life.  Video of Donna and Whitney uh wrestling?  (There is at least one other video example of Donna and Whitney laughing hysterically and making "sexy" faces at each other and the camera.) She has on several occasions mock-complained about how much time and attention Whitney needs. She was helping Whitney check in guests for the first cruise. She appeared to have been involved in helping Whitney assemble the Avi whiteboard. She went on the trip to Hawaii and shared Whitney's suite. Only once, to my recollection has the show mentioned Donna travelled for business, but what she does has never been mentioned, and there's no reason to believe it. The producers have spent three four seasons trying to hide the fact that Donna lives in the same house as Whitney and Buddy because they were milking the "will Whitney and Buddy fall in lerve or just stay roomies?" storyline for all it was worth - with Heather in the mix as an intriguing complication. So maybe they have just switched to pretending Donna isn't there very often?

tl:dr   But to sum up briefly - We know Whitney needs regular  assistance due to her physical issues, most caused by her weight. We know her mother was doing the assisting when Whitney lived at home. We know she would still need the help after she moved to her own house.  We know Buddy isn't capable/interested in providing it. We know Whitney and Donna have a very handsy, huggy, kissy relationship, so clearly Donna has no big issue with touching Whitney as required for her routine maintenance. We know Donna lives in Whitney's house and travels with her, at least in connection with the show.  We know Whitney calls her Boo Boo.  We know they deny they are Lesbian lovers. And from all this is drawn the conclusion that Donna is caretaker for Whitney, whether paid or unpaid is not known. Maybe she looks after her just as a friend. But someone has to be doing the shaving, etc. and it seems plausible that the person is Donna.

Sorry Globegrl, you probably weren't expecting this much answer, but I happen to be stuck in a hospital waiting room with nothing but my laptop again, and that tends to encourage my odd research obsession with this show.

Loved your post Ketzel!!

What I noticed in that link with Donna and Twit “trying to do a selfie” (other than Donna hands on Twit’s boobs) was Twit’s big rodent teeth! Yeah, she’s so desirable! ?

Oh, also that scene with her back and buddy helping her was so contrived on her part!  She prob hurt her back because of her 400lbs on her body but all buddy did was walk beside her to her bed.  She could have done that alone.  She just wanted an opportunity for Buddy to see her naked.  Blech. Otherwise the thought that “my towels don’t cover my whole body” never would have even crossed her mind! Buddy was so uncomfortable She’s so transparent! 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Kaia40

[cherenkov]

1 minute ago, Kaia40 said:

What I noticed in that link with Donna was Twit’s big rodent teeth! Yeah, she’s so desirable! ?

Donna's hands were all over her boobs in that video.

[Kaia40]

11 minutes ago, cherenkov said:

Donna's hands were all over her boobs in that video.

Yes! Completely! I should have said, in addition to Donna’s hands on her boobs, I noticed her rodent teeth!  I actually updated my post! lol

Edited April 13, 2018 by Kaia40

[cherenkov]

17 minutes ago, Kaia40 said:

Yes! Completely! I should have said, in addition to Donna’s hands on her boobs, I noticed her rodent teeth!  I actually updated my post! lol

The hands-on-boobs distracted me from the rodent teeth.

It's like when Whitney pulled that whole "See, I'm not unfit, a 500 pound woman wears out on a walk before I do." distraction tactic.

[3girlsforus]

I just watched that shower video. It didn’t look like Whitney needed help at all. She could have sucked it up and gotten to the bed herself. Then if she wanted medication she could have called Buddy. Why not try some Advil before making your roommate slather stuff over your nakedness?  Why make him help you while naked in the first place? I doubt I would have even called my husband to help me in that situation until I was at least in the bed. She has some serious exhibitionist tendencies. 

[Kaia40]

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

I just watched that shower video. It didn’t look like Whitney needed help at all. She could have sucked it up and gotten to the bed herself. Then if she wanted medication she could have called Buddy. Why not try some Advil before making your roommate slather stuff over your nakedness?  Why make him help you while naked in the first place? I doubt I would have even called my husband to help me in that situation until I was at least in the bed. She has some serious exhibitionist tendencies. 

Yes, thank you!!!! 110%! It was so contrived.  She just wanted Buddy to see her naked. Buddy was with Heather at that time and if I were Heather, I would have been pissed. Buddy was so uncomfortable with it. She claims no towels would cover her...maybe she should try a Hummer dust cover!!  She has a creepy obsession with Buddy.  I mean planning a dance class in Charleston just to see stalk blindside him! I’m soooo happy that he shot her down.  Twit may think she’s “senshus” but no one else does! 

[greekmom]

On 4/4/2018 at 7:23 PM, Ketzel said:

Then came the infamous scene (in the 4th season) where Babs and Glenn were visiting the new house "unannounced" and "accidentally" opened the door to Whitney's bedroom, to find Whitney naked on her bed and Donna with her hands on Whitney's boobs, "giving her a massage."  Whitney thought this was hilarious and we all (a) learned of Donna's existence and (b) learned that Whitney didn't know how to pronounce the word "sensuous."

Excellent synopsis @Ketzel.  Correct me if I'm wrong but another reason that Donna was "introduced" was because twitney's sheep loyal fans had seen Donna in the background on fb, twitter, etc. and wondered who she was?  

[Snarkastikate]

I suspect that Donna may be a live in housekeeper in addition to helping Whit with her hygiene issues.  Free room and board plus whatever.    The house looks pretty clean and I just can't see Whit washing floors,  vacuuming, doing laundry, scrubbing the toilet etc.   Not when she can't even rub cream near her own cooch.