S01.E09: No Man's Land, Part One

[Notwisconsin]

Quote

Howard attempts to thwart the Guest's plans. Howard and Emily chase Kaspar.

[shapeshifter]

Two main thoughts:

• The duality of the characters is, after all, a symbolic storytelling device:
  --The 2 sides represent the 2 halves of each of us (our better selves and our not-so-nice selves)
  --These divergent aspects of our personalities are the result of environmental factors 
  --And so they can change (and even integrate into one personality)
• The purpose of the ambiguity in the storytelling is to allow the viewer to experience the same level of confusion as the characters who do not fully have the picture of the whole, but only see (to varying degrees) each ones own side/half.
  --Unfortunately, this brilliant and effective device may get the show canceled.

So alt-Claire survives in a state (most likely) like our-Emily's (but I'm still wondering if the Emilys were switched long ago--maybe even as friends--a sort of integrated/whole Emily)

[Cthulhudrew]

I feel like the "I never had anything of my own until Spencer" scene between Claire and Peter was wasted time, considering we already got that scene (albeit a bit truncated) an episode or two ago. Otherwise, everything was pretty solid.

[meira.hand]

One thing that was clarified here is all the questions that were raised about how to replace the three counterparts without raising suspicions. Unlike Clair that had to fully integrate into the alpha world and her shadow's life, these three only needed the documentation for a one time infiltration of the crossing complex. As long as their shadows were killed at home and left there undiscovered, nothing else mattered. This is why Baldwin's way of doing it was good enough.

[Notwisconsin]

That was fun....I guess that "bright eyes" was going back to the prime side to kill the border guards and start the invasion. Don't really know why they decided to delay the finale a week.

[scrb]

I don't get the conspiracy at all.  First of all, did they raise the 3 doubles from the time they were children, like they did with Clare?

How would they even know that their shadows would have access to that building?  And even having Baldwin kill them, how would they know the codes to get into that super high-security building?

But forget all that for a second.  They spent years training those doubles and all they did was a shooting spree, killing mostly low-level people.  The secretary didn't even go after the Richard Schiff character, who's a big wig.  So they killed a lot of lower-level bureaucrats and border guards.

Were they hoping to start a war between the two worlds?  And Bright Eyes was going to make a run to cross to the other side?  

There are billions of people in each world and just one place where they can cross from one world into the other.  Quite a chokepoint so I don't think there will be war of the worlds in there.

Now if they smuggled in a nuke or something or some bio weapon, it might make sense.  But a shooting spree which was probably a suicide mission for the 3?

 

As for Peter, I don't know any way in which he doesn't go to jail.  Aldrich's men vanished after the crash.  So is that crash suppose to throw off suspicion?  After the shooting spree, the fact that he didn't turn Clare over well before is going to implicate him.  Especially since Howard Prime told Aldrich that he's protecting Clare.

Quayle as a character can't continue unless he's in jail and his double shows up.

[wanderingstar]

Peter, don't quit your day job. Ugh!

Those last few minutes had me stressed, but I am still trying to figure out what the Guests' plan was. Shooting up the embassy building was going to achieve what exactly?

I still don't think Clare can be trusted, but I do believe that she genuinely treasures little Spencer.

I kept thinking Our Howard/Meek Howard was going to come across the border at the wrong time and get caught in the crossfire. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Gillian Rosh

[Notwisconsin]

The guests' plan was to get rid of the guards so there could be an invasion of sorts. I'm sure of it Force both worlds to discover each other and break Alpha wide open. Or blow open an interdimensional hole causing panic and confusion worldwide and letting the flu into Alpha so 7% of it's population would be killed. Dunno.

[scrb]

They wouldn't have to smuggle in doubles to kill those guards.

One guy took out all the guards so why not just have an army rush the crossing from the other side?

Then what?

If they tried to contaminate the water supply or put something like weaponized smallpox, I can see it would be something huge.

But then the show becomes kind of like 24, with Howard Prime racing to catch the doubles?

Looks like Baldwin is going to go after Howard Prime next episode.  Even that doesn't make a lot of sense because Clare tried to have Baldwin killed and the promise of more money is enough to make her cooperate?

She was poor and couldn't afford any nice eats at that coffee shop and was disgusted at the luxury of the store in which she confronted Clare.  But now she just wants to maximize the money she could get out of Clare and she'll let bygones be bygones as far as Clare seducing her and sending the killer to the same bed where they slept together?

I know she's suppose to be a mercenary but they showed Baldwin as somewhat conflicted about getting her double killed and alienated from Clare and the people who hired her.

[shapeshifter]

55 minutes ago, scrb said:

. . . So they killed a lot of lower-level bureaucrats and border guards.

Were they hoping to start a war between the two worlds? . . .

 

2 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Those last few minutes had me stressed, but I am still trying to figure out what the Guests' plan was? Shooting up the embassy building was going to achieve what exactly?

 

12 minutes ago, Notwisconsin said:

The guests' plan was to get rid of the guards so there could be an invasion of sorts. I'm sure of it Force both worlds to discover each other and break Alpha wide open. Or blow open an interdimensional hole causing panic and confusion worldwide and letting the flu into Alpha so 7% of it's population would be killed. Dunno.

Whew! I'm glad @Notwisconsin saw it this way too. I was sitting on the edge of my seat (figuratively) because I thought it was obvious that they were going to open up the checkpoint to allow the other side through unchecked with disasterous results like @Notwisconsin described,^^ but when 2 out of the first 7 posts didn't get that major plot point, I figured this show is a goner like Rubicon.

[scrb]

Aren't there guards from both sides on either side of the Crossing?

Angle Eyes took out at most a dozen guards.

Can they not be replaced?  They weren't exactly good with the guns either, to let one guy kill them all.

[wanderingstar]

I think I didn't get what the next step in the invasion was supposed to be. Who was going to invade? How were they going to invade? It seemed like a jarring departure from the Fanatics' plan up to this point. They spend all these years training these agents to plant them on Our Side, only to have them shoot up the embassy building in a matter of minutes. Why deviate from the painstaking approach.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Gillian Rosh

[hardy har]

I know this show is technically a co-production with America, but I want to thank the country of Germany for giving me Counterpart, Dark and Babylon Berlin to obsess out. 

2 hours ago, scrb said:

I don't get the conspiracy at all.  First of all, did they raise the 3 doubles from the time they were children, like they did with Clare?

How would they even know that their shadows would have access to that building?  And even having Baldwin kill them, how would they know the codes to get into that super high-security building?

But forget all that for a second.  They spent years training those doubles and all they did was a shooting spree, killing mostly low-level people.  The secretary didn't even go after the Richard Schiff character, who's a big wig.  So they killed a lot of lower-level bureaucrats and border guards.

They might need the Big With Diplomat down the road. I think the point of The School was that they were training/indoctrinating the students so they'd be willing to do anything for the cause if they were called upon. For Claire, it was a long term mission and for The Guests it was basically a suicide mission. Since Quayle is Fail Spy, I'm assuming Claire was sending any info she could get about who worked/had access to the Housekeeping floor and that's how The School found the 3 they sent over.

Since, this is one of a two-parter, I'm gonna wait to see what else we learn, but I thought it was interesting that they seemed to be deliberately not shooting some people. There were a number of scenes (besides the one with Richard Schiff) on the Housekeeping floor where they seemed to be shooting specific people. At least that's what it looked like to me.

I think it's kind of fun that everyone is sort of fucked. Legit none of the principle characters have anyone they can actually rely on.   

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Looks like Baldwin is going to go after Howard Prime next episode.  Even that doesn't make a lot of sense because Clare tried to have Baldwin killed and the promise of more money is enough to make her cooperate?

She was poor and couldn't afford any nice eats at that coffee shop and was disgusted at the luxury of the store in which she confronted Clare.  But now she just wants to maximize the money she could get out of Clare and she'll let bygones be bygones as far as Clare seducing her and sending the killer to the same bed where they slept together?

I know she's suppose to be a mercenary but they showed Baldwin as somewhat conflicted about getting her double killed and alienated from Clare and the people who hired her.

Claire didn't try to have her killed. Claire actually warned Baldwin, started packing up her stuff and tried to get Baldwin to leave before they slept together in that episode (I totally missed that the first time, but my roommate is catching up and I caught a couple older eps) so I think there is actual affection there. At least on some level. I don't think Baldwin forgives her or anything, but if she's trying to disappear after all this, then more money, in theory, would make it easier for her. Though, that'll be a little difficult with Quayle's Kamikaze driving. Not that Claire would be able to get the money anyway.    

I've wanted Baldwin and a Howard to team up since ep 3. I don't care which Howard it is, I ..... just want it to happen for some reason.

[Quilt Fairy]

Gee, the Counterpart border guards must come from the same place as the Westworld security guards.  Couldn't hit the side of a barn if they were inside it. 

I was a little confused at first as to whose henchmen were whose in the Kaspar capture scene.  All of them are dark-haired and wear all black.  Even Aldrich's henchmen are all dark-haired and wear black.

Even though I was riveted during the episode, there were several story glitches that bugged me.  Like, how convenient that the one double is apparently the only guy working the x-ray machine in the mailroom and the package with the guns waits until he shows up to be delivered.  Also, everything is happening during the day and then it suddenly jumps to night without any explanation of where the time went.  The very prominent clock on the wall during the shooting spree showed it was 7:20 p.m.   While Interface may very well have a night shift, all of the identifiable people had been there all day.   And their ultimate purpose?  I don't know.  I really thought as the last guy was struggling to get to No-man's-land that he was a suicide bomber and was going to blow-up the crossing. 

ETA: Two weeks to the finale?  Fuck you, Starz!

Edited March 19, 2018 by Quilt Fairy

[RealityCreator]

Not sure what the murderous students from Prime side were trying to accomplish, but I can appreciate their single-mindedness.  Bummed at the plot device guards who couldn't shoot straight and were murdered single-handedly by one dork.  

Doesn't Clare ever have to pee?

Edited March 19, 2018 by RealityCreator

[Cthulhudrew]

I'm really not sure what the overall plan is here, but I'm going to engage in some freeform dissection of the plot up until this point:

1) The Other Side, it has been noted, is experiencing a fracturing of leadership. While by and large they seem to be content to stick with the detente with "Prime" Side, there are those who want to rile things up for various reasons. One of those factions is the Shadows, who seemingly want to create a war and/or destroy Prime side for the Flu Incident.

1a) There could really not be any "army" to send, because there isn't a single faction in charge, nor would removing the guards from either/both ends really accomplish much. Whatever the Shadow endgame is seems much more likely to be some kind of diplomatic crisis rather than- at least at this early stage- a military one. Diplomatic incident pursuant to declaration of war or something.

2) At this point, there are only a handful of people who know about the Shadows and their operation. To most of the rest of the people of both Prime and Other Sides, the three Operatives will seem to be Prime agents who went rogue for one reason or another and slaughtered their fellow Primes while attempting to... defect? Dunno.

2a) Clare knows that there are people on Prime side who know about her operation and the Shadows, and that is why she has sent Baldwin to kill Howard, because he is the strongest piece of evidence to stand against the notion that the Operatives are not, in fact, Primes. Without Howard's corroboration (and presumably Emily Prime), it will be very difficult to prove, and whatever diplomatic incident the Shadows were hoping to cause will be much more likely to succeed.

2b) I tend to agree that it seemed as if the Operatives were being somewhat discriminatory in their shooting, but it may seem that way mostly because the Director of Diplomacy was pointedly left alive. I'm guessing the reason for that has to do with needing him for whatever diplomatic incident is being provoked.

2c) Angel Eyes may or may not be dead, but it seemed very telling to me that Aldrich said they couldn't pursue him any further because he'd crossed the border. I'm guessing his goal was to make it to that halfway point all along; otherwise, Prime side could possibly have covered up the incident from the Other side.

2d) Now that I think of it, though, all three Operatives were known to have crossed from the Other side just a few days ago, so my hypothesis of them appearing to be rogue Primes doesn't really work any more. Yeah, I'm stuck.

[FinnishViewer]

Quote

Unfortunately, this brilliant and effective device may get the show canceled.

I believe Starz ordered two seasons, and season 2 production has started.

[Haleth]

12 hours ago, scrb said:

As for Peter, I don't know any way in which he doesn't go to jail.

Did they even say what his condition was after the crash?  I know Clare is alive and at the hospital,  Did her dad say anything about Peter (that I missed)?

Like other posters I'm not sure what it was that the 3 shadows wanted to accomplish.  They shot up a lot of random people, plus all the crossing guards, and got themselves killed.  Angel Eyes dying on the border is reminiscent of The Bridge.  Who has jurisdiction?

Really, who trained those guards, none of whom could shoot straight?

I'm glad Aldrich (mostly) believes Howard that he is not the mole.  And I'm glad Ian already knew (or at least suspected) that the Howards had been switched.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Haleth

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

2a) Clare knows that there are people on Prime side who know about her operation and the Shadows, and that is why she has sent Baldwin to kill Howard, because he is the strongest piece of evidence to stand against the notion that the Operatives are not, in fact, Primes. Without Howard's corroboration (and presumably Emily Prime), it will be very difficult to prove, and whatever diplomatic incident the Shadows were hoping to cause will be much more likely to succeed.

-which keeps me wondering if (at the end of the previous episode) it was Clare's idea for Peter to name Howard as the mole. And if it was Clare's idea, it would also have served to protect her own life, and also her mission.

 

 

 

I guess Clare's training did not include the advice shared amongst hitchhikers in the 1970s for when finding oneself in a moving car with a crazy/evil person: Reach over and remove the keys and throw them out the window.    Or maybe that doesn't work with today's cars?

[jcin617]

So what the heck was their plan?   It looked like the guy in Intelligence was killing selected people, and then that other guy ran for the border.    And so what if his upper body crossed the border?   Just walk in and pull him back, what is the other side going to do about it?   You've already had a catastrophic diplomatic incident.   

And it seems to me that when you have a single border like this, you would have some kind of failsafe mechanism to seal said border; like a big giant metal door that comes crashing down when a catastrophic alarm goes off.   But then again, I've never understood the point of having such an open border in the first place if they are so paranoid about each other.   Just keep all contact to Interface and don't let anyone physically cross.   (Speaking of, if the tunnel is the crossing point, how do the folks in Interface meet up?)

Edited March 19, 2018 by jcin617

[Notwisconsin]

2 hours ago, jcin617 said:

  (Speaking of, if the tunnel is the crossing point, how do the folks in Interface meet up?)

It's part of the core absurdity of any good fantasy. The "maguffin", of which there should only be one or two before the whole thing gets too silly to follow.

These are:

1) How and why the solar system divided in two

2) The Berlin Portal and how it works.

While the "shadow conspiracy" should be depicted in a realistic and semi-logical fashion,  the portal itself works on magic fairy dust and really needs no further explanation

[scrb]

I thought shadows were the names given by the children at the sleeper school to the people they were going to replace.

So shadows are people in our world, like the real Clare whom Clare Prime killed was a shadow to Clare Prime.

[Rade]

8 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I'm really not sure what the overall plan is here, but I'm going to engage in some freeform dissection of the plot up until this point:

 

2c) Angel Eyes may or may not be dead, but it seemed very telling to me that Aldrich said they couldn't pursue him any further because he'd crossed the border. I'm guessing his goal was to make it to that halfway point all along; otherwise, Prime side could possibly have covered up the incident from the Other side.

I assume he lives based on the fact that his side is medically advanced and he is wearing a backpack most likely containing a med kit to easily heal his gun wounds. Back when D2 Emily was poisoned she should of been dead but obviously not after ending up at the hospital. Both Emily's ended up in the hospital for the same reason but D2 recovered very quickly from a more severe assassination attempt. All of the combat trained prime characters seem to also be physically and mentally superior like the glasses agent easily winning the fight against Aldrich's man.

[jcin617]

Another thing, they take pictures of everyone who crosses the border so why don’t they put that through a facial recognition program for everyone that works at the Office, or immediate family.  “Oh you’re the 20th person to cross today claiming to be logistic support for the Embassy,  but your Other is Billy from the mailroom, so.... no.”   And how do these replacements come over under false docs and no one notices when the false person never crosses back?   Like Claire... whoever she claimed to be when she crossed never crossed back, wouldn’t you think Housekeeping would pull up her picture and be all “oh, it’s a director’s daughter’s Other who obviously totally lied on her paperwork.”   

I hate nitpicking, but when your central premise is spycraft, these folks are lousy at doing even basic counterespionage.

Edited March 19, 2018 by jcin617

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, jcin617 said:

And so what if his upper body crossed the border?   Just walk in and pull him back, what is the other side going to do about it?   You've already had a catastrophic diplomatic incident.   

I assumed that dialogue was to reveal that there's some science-y reason they couldn't touch him when he's half and half, but your assumption, @jcin617, makes much more sense than mine, and, I think, is more interesting.

 

 

I have a stupid question: Other than because IMDb says so, why is there a character named "Angel Eyes"? I'm guessing some other character referred to him that way, but if so, I have no memory of it or its context.

[RealityCreator]

14 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I'm really not sure what the overall plan is here, but I'm going to engage in some freeform dissection of the plot up until this point:

1) The Other Side, it has been noted, is experiencing a fracturing of leadership. While by and large they seem to be content to stick with the detente with "Prime" Side, there are those who want to rile things up for various reasons. One of those factions is the Shadows, who seemingly want to create a war and/or destroy Prime side for the Flu Incident.

1a) There could really not be any "army" to send, because there isn't a single faction in charge, nor would removing the guards from either/both ends really accomplish much. Whatever the Shadow endgame is seems much more likely to be some kind of diplomatic crisis rather than- at least at this early stage- a military one. Diplomatic incident pursuant to declaration of war or something.

2) At this point, there are only a handful of people who know about the Shadows and their operation. To most of the rest of the people of both Prime and Other Sides, the three Operatives will seem to be Prime agents who went rogue for one reason or another and slaughtered their fellow Primes while attempting to... defect? Dunno.

2a) Clare knows that there are people on Prime side who know about her operation and the Shadows, and that is why she has sent Baldwin to kill Howard, because he is the strongest piece of evidence to stand against the notion that the Operatives are not, in fact, Primes. Without Howard's corroboration (and presumably Emily Prime), it will be very difficult to prove, and whatever diplomatic incident the Shadows were hoping to cause will be much more likely to succeed.

2b) I tend to agree that it seemed as if the Operatives were being somewhat discriminatory in their shooting, but it may seem that way mostly because the Director of Diplomacy was pointedly left alive. I'm guessing the reason for that has to do with needing him for whatever diplomatic incident is being provoked.

2c) Angel Eyes may or may not be dead, but it seemed very telling to me that Aldrich said they couldn't pursue him any further because he'd crossed the border. I'm guessing his goal was to make it to that halfway point all along; otherwise, Prime side could possibly have covered up the incident from the Other side.

2d) Now that I think of it, though, all three Operatives were known to have crossed from the Other side just a few days ago, so my hypothesis of them appearing to be rogue Primes doesn't really work any more. Yeah, I'm stuck.

Great post, and I learned from it.  It is *very* confusing, but you have your Prime side and Other side names mixed up.  Prime is the "Other side" where tough Howard and Clare are from and where the flu epidemic hit, etc.  "Our side" where meek Howard and hospitalized Emily and Quayle et al reside is the original earth and is called "Alpha."  I only know this because I use closed captioning and they call tough Howard "Howard Prime" and meek Howard, "Howard Alpha."  The show runners explain it here:

http://www.slashfilm.com/counterpart-interview/

[marinw]

1 hour ago, RealityCreator said:

 It is *very* confusing, but you have your Prime side and Other side names mixed up.  Prime is the "Other side" where tough Howard and Clare are from and where the flu epidemic hit, etc.

Thank you for that. They should color-code the sides a la Fringe.

[hardy har]

I'm not gonna nitpick too much about what Pope/Prime side's plan is because we haven't seen what's going on over there yet. 

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I assumed that dialogue was to reveal that there's some science-y reason they couldn't touch him when he's half and half, but your assumption, @jcin617, makes much more sense than mine, and, I think, is more interesting.

I think the crossing area from entry -to-entry is like an agreed upon Neutral Zone. 

6 hours ago, jcin617 said:

Another thing, they take pictures of everyone who crosses the border so why don’t they put that through a facial recognition program for everyone that works at the Office, or immediate family.  “Oh you’re the 20th person to cross today claiming to be logistic support for the Embassy,  but your Other is Billy from the mailroom, so.... no.”   And how do these replacements come over under false docs and no one notices when the false person never crosses back?   Like Claire... whoever she claimed to be when she crossed never crossed back, wouldn’t you think Housekeeping would pull up her picture and be all “oh, it’s a director’s daughter’s Other who obviously totally lied on her paperwork.”   

I hate nitpicking, but when your central premise is spycraft, these folks are lousy at doing even basic counterespionage.

Yeah, but do we even know if they have facial recognition technology? Prime Side doesn't even have the tech for smart phones. Pope falsified an identity for Claire, so I assume that's what happened with The Guests too.

[RealityCreator]

5 hours ago, marinw said:

Thank you for that. They should color-code the sides a la Fringe.

That would be helpful!

[Haleth]

10 hours ago, marinw said:

They should color-code the sides a la Fringe.

That would help if a viewer is not familiar with the Berlin skyline.  Which reminds me...

9 hours ago, hardy har said:

Prime Side doesn't even have the tech for smart phones.

Prime side has all kinds of futuristic architecture, yet they can't invent a smart phone?  (Not meaning to nitpick, just an observation.)

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

That would help if a viewer is not familiar with the Berlin skyline.  Which reminds me...

Prime side has all kinds of futuristic architecture, yet they can't invent a smart phone?  (Not meaning to nitpick, just an observation.)

Magnets?

[jcin617]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

That would help if a viewer is not familiar with the Berlin skyline.  Which reminds me...

Prime side has all kinds of futuristic architecture, yet they can't invent a smart phone?  (Not meaning to nitpick, just an observation.)

It seems like smuggling is somewhat tricky to do, as everything passes through Custom - so probably hard to reverse-engineer.   But, my guess is Prime side spent all our formative smartphone years trying to stop the pandemic so they are 15 years behind the times.   Not only do you have to invent the smartphone tech, you have to develop the cell network, internet technologies, component miniaturization, processor development, etc.   All stuff they put aside in favor of health care research (e.g., it was mentioned they provided Alpha side with advances in HIV treatment).  And who knows, maybe Steve Jobs Prime passed away from the virus.

Edited March 20, 2018 by jcin617

[Notwisconsin]

On 3/20/2018 at 9:53 AM, jcin617 said:

  But, my guess is Prime side spent all our formative smartphone years trying to stop the pandemic so they are 15 years behind the times.  

That's not how pandemics work. They generally burn themselves out in a year or less. The Killer flu of 1918-19 worked like that, and so did the ebola epidemic or 2014. A modern repeat of the killer flu would have been even more devastating because it could be spread via airplanes.

There was a really good documentary on the subject on The American Experience a few years back.

[jcin617]

17 minutes ago, Notwisconsin said:

That's not how pandemics work. They generally burn themselves out in a year or less. The Killer flu of 1918-19 worked like that, and so did the ebola epidemic or 2014. A modern repeat of the killer flu would have been even more devastating because it could be spread via airplanes.

There was a really good documentary on the subject on The American Experience a few years back.

Oh I agree, it just seemed from what we know to have been a longer lasting event on the Prime side - to the point that we saw in the background that they have laws in the present requiring you to report anyone who is sick.    Or perhaps they've just become severe germaphobes now as a result.

Edited March 22, 2018 by jcin617

[Skyfall]

On 3/18/2018 at 4:15 AM, shapeshifter said:

Two main thoughts:

• The duality of the characters is, after all, a symbolic storytelling device:
  --The 2 sides represent the 2 halves of each of us (our better selves and our not-so-nice selves)
  --These divergent aspects of our personalities are the result of environmental factors 
  --And so they can change (and even integrate into one personality)
• The purpose of the ambiguity in the storytelling is to allow the viewer to experience the same level of confusion as the characters who do not fully have the picture of the whole, but only see (to varying degrees) each ones own side/half.
  --Unfortunately, this brilliant and effective device may get the show canceled.

So alt-Claire survives in a state (most likely) like our-Emily's (but I'm still wondering if the Emilys were switched long ago--maybe even as friends--a sort of integrated/whole Emily)

Good thing it was picked up for 2 seasons in the beginning!

On 3/18/2018 at 3:00 PM, Notwisconsin said:

That was fun....I guess that "bright eyes" was going back to the prime side to kill the border guards and start the invasion. Don't really know why they decided to delay the finale a week.

Easter Sunday.

[Skyfall]

On 3/18/2018 at 10:01 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

I think I didn't get what the next step in the invasion was supposed to be. Who was going to invade? How were they going to invade? It seemed like a jarring departure from the Fanatics' plan up to this point. They spend all these years training these agents to plant them on Our Side, only to have them shoot up the embassy building in a matter of minutes. Why deviate from the painstaking approach.

Claire was getting information remember? Had to have known the noose was getting tighter so maybe they had to change course but since Baldwin took too long Claire is now outed and the school is done so the attack isn’t effective.

On 3/19/2018 at 2:13 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

Gee, the Counterpart border guards must come from the same place as the Westworld security guards.  Couldn't hit the side of a barn if they were inside it. 

I was a little confused at first as to whose henchmen were whose in the Kaspar capture scene.  All of them are dark-haired and wear all black.  Even Aldrich's henchmen are all dark-haired and wear black.

Even though I was riveted during the episode, there were several story glitches that bugged me.  Like, how convenient that the one double is apparently the only guy working the x-ray machine in the mailroom and the package with the guns waits until he shows up to be delivered.  Also, everything is happening during the day and then it suddenly jumps to night without any explanation of where the time went.  The very prominent clock on the wall during the shooting spree showed it was 7:20 p.m.   While Interface may very well have a night shift, all of the identifiable people had been there all day.   And their ultimate purpose?  I don't know.  I really thought as the last guy was struggling to get to No-man's-land that he was a suicide bomber and was going to blow-up the crossing. 

ETA: Two weeks to the finale?  Fuck you, Starz!

RE: ETA look above 

[scrb]

Yeah that's some BS, waiting till next week.

Other shows like Billions are premiering today.

[shapeshifter]

I don't get too riled up about one week delays. It's waiting over a year for the next season of something that annoys me, because it makes me feel like Rip Van Winkle.

[Haleth]

Don’t shows normally try to avoid holidays?  Obviously Easter isn’t celebrated by everyone, but it seems strange to skip this week and show the finale on a holiday when many people may be otherwise occupied. 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Don’t shows normally try to avoid holidays?  Obviously Easter isn’t celebrated by everyone, but it seems strange to skip this week and show the finale on a holiday when many people may be otherwise occupied. 

And this year April 1st is 3 "holidays" in 1: Easter, Passover, and April Fools Day.

Hmmmm. . . there's an Atheist joke in there somewhere.

[wilnil]

On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 9:42 AM, jcin617 said:

(Speaking of, if the tunnel is the crossing point, how do the folks in Interface meet up?)

Totally handwaving here, but my guess is that the Crossing corridor was not originally the only part of that building that connected the split worlds, but the rest of the connected area was blocked off, and either (1) one side or the other goes through a "dead end" crossing that only gives access to their side of the Interface rooms, or (2) the Interface area itself is part of the blocking-off, and the participants on each side of the glass actually remain in their own worlds, with the window wall built right on the borderline.

[Ottis]

That was a dumb ass plan to spend decades raising and training people and then inserting them into the other world. I suppose it was only part of it but I will be surprised if the rest of the plan is particularly sensible. 

[AudienceofOne]

On 3/19/2018 at 12:34 PM, scrb said:

They wouldn't have to smuggle in doubles to kill those guards.

One guy took out all the guards so why not just have an army rush the crossing from the other side?

The other side doesn't want to invade. This is entirely a rogue operation. I thought (and I could be wrong) that they want to make it look like our side is invading so Prime World will retaliate. That way they can get the revenge they wanted for what they believe is Alpha's biowarfare. 

If their goal is war between the two sides then, either way, I suspect they now have it.

On 3/19/2018 at 12:41 PM, shapeshifter said:

Whew! I'm glad @Notwisconsin saw it this way too. I was sitting on the edge of my seat (figuratively) because I thought it was obvious that they were going to open up the checkpoint to allow the other side through unchecked with disasterous results like @Notwisconsin described,^^ but when 2 out of the first 7 posts didn't get that major plot point, I figured this show is a goner like Rubicon.

The show is far too slow moving and introspective to last for long (she says with some hindsight). 

[Michichick]

On 3/22/2018 at 8:20 AM, Notwisconsin said:

That's not how pandemics work. They generally burn themselves out in a year or less. The Killer flu of 1918-19 worked like that, and so did the ebola epidemic or 2014. A modern repeat of the killer flu would have been even more devastating because it could be spread via airplanes.

There was a really good documentary on the subject on The American Experience a few years back.

I’m just now working my way through Counterpart and reading these old posts. Dang these 2019 posts about pandemics are so freaky to me as I read them for the first time in a Covid world. I relate to some of the pandemic stuff on the show differently than I would have in 2019, too.