Relationship Thread: Advice, Venting And Everything Else

[JTMacc99]

My close friend at work read a text message she got from her friend and former coworker last night. The person who wrote the text is in a relationship with a guy she met here before she left. It is not a very healthy relationship from what I know of it. They are in their early thirties. She desperately wants children. He is unable to have children. He seems unwilling to adopt, is unsure about his career and has made noise about starting a new career that would have him traveling frequently, and has made no real long term commitment to her in any tangible way.

The text read something along the lines of "I was looking at [this place] in [a local town] and they do receptions for [some amount per head]! I'm thinking about checking it out. [Boyfriend] says that if I could find someplace reasonable, he supposes we could get married. LOL. I'm going to look at it and see what I think.

...

I just, I can't. I can't imagine getting married like that. I'm particularly sensitive to this right now, and it sent a shiver through me that I'm hoping sharing it here will shake it off a little bit.  I look at where my life has taken me, and how difficult things can become when a marriage doesn't work out. I look at my friend who read me this text, and think about the way her marriage ended due to an addiction problem. I think about another friend who is going through a difficult separation, her marriage broke down because they had great chemistry but they fought constantly. I think about my friend who married a girl with narcissistic personality disorder, and the hell he went through. I think about my friend I just saw a few minutes before I heard about this text, and she was radiating anxiety that for sure is a residual effect of what she went through.

And this girl is thinking that "I suppose we could get married" is a good thing? I'm just so sad for her. 

[Qoass]

Well, the fact is that half of all marriages don't last, even some of the ones that started out as fairy tales.  I guess you just have to decide for yourself if the pleasure is worth the pain.

[AgentRXS]

I'm also in my early 30s, never been married or had kids. You do start to wonder if it will ever happen for you, especially if its something you really want. Some women are so desperate for marriage that they will marry almost anyone just to say they are/were married. It is sad. I guess because divorce is so commonplace, they think "Well, if it doesn't work out, we can just get divorced later" as if its no big deal. Like Qoass said, I guess some people decide the pleasure of getting that ring is worth the pain of divorcing, even if they know the marriage isn't going to last.  Its all about the instant gratification.

I'm of the "I'd rather be alone than unhappy" attitude now, and I'm done trying to make difficult relationships work. Its not worth the headache/heartache.

[JTMacc99]

1 hour ago, Qoass said:

 I guess you just have to decide for yourself if the pleasure is worth the pain.

And I think that's the point that sticks with me on the "If you find someplace affordable, I guess we can get married" responded to with almost a "Yay! I'll go check it out!"  Where exactly is the pleasure?  That feels more like, "If you can get free tickets, I'll go to the opera with you."  

1 hour ago, AgentRXS said:

I'm of the "I'd rather be alone than unhappy" attitude now, and I'm done trying to make difficult relationships work. Its not worth the headache/heartache.

It's definitely the healthiest attitude to take. Probably even better than several future of my future paths I've got up on the white board.  I'm partial to "don't discount marrying for money at least once during your life, especially as the kids are nearing the college years."

[AgentRXS]

Quote

Where exactly is the pleasure?

I guess she's thrilled that he's even considering it. Kind of pathetic really.

Quote

 I'm partial to "don't discount marrying for money at least once during your life, especially as the kids are nearing the college years."

Heh. I wouldn't mind marrying for money, as long as the arrangements are clear before we get married. But living in South Florida, the golddigger competition is way too fierce LOL.

[DeLurker]

6 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

But living in South Florida, the golddigger competition is way too fierce LOL.

That's been true for a long time.  The thing I always respected about that in So Florida was it was almost commerce - everyone in that game seemed to know what was going on.

[JTMacc99]

The plan needs some more work, but I think it's going to involve a lot of working out and moving close enough to NYC to mine the 50-ish group. I haven't put a lot more thought into it. (Because it's stupid.)

[auntlada]

Do you work at Grey Sloan Memorial Hospital? (Grey's Anatomy.)

[JTMacc99]

Oh @auntlada, I think I watched about three episodes of Grey's when I got to one where Kristin Heigl spent an episode trying to save a deer, and that was that. Much like many of the things I say on these boards, it was too stupid to tolerate. So I'm afraid you lost me. 

[auntlada]

The relationship you described sounds a lot like all of them on that show. It's all very soapy.

[theredhead77]

15 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

And this girl is thinking that "I suppose we could get married" is a good thing? I'm just so sad for her. 

I know someone who got married like this. The guy was the captain of the douche canoe before they got together and she had a "wedding deadline", venue booked, dress bought before he "proposed". They're still married but the husband is just as disinterested as he was before. Does his own thing, what he wants, when he wants but she's "married" and has her child so she doesn't care.

14 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

I'm also in my early 30s, never been married or had kids. You do start to wonder if it will ever happen for you, especially if its something you really want.

I'm of the "I'd rather be alone than unhappy" attitude now, and I'm done trying to make difficult relationships work. Its not worth the headache/heartache.

I'm about to turn 40, single, never married, no kids. I want to be married, I want kids (adoption or step, I have no desire to be pregnant) but as I posted in the dating thread, I'm just going to get a few more cats and call it a life (I can't afford to foster or adopt at this point in my life). The glitter in my life pops up every few months and I have to remind myself of all the pain hes caused me to not get sucked into the "I suppose we can date" mentality he'll toss out there.

[aradia22]

@theredhead77 I still think glitter is a funny name but it sounds too positive. It should be shittier like... eraser residue or potato chip crumbs. 

Anyway, I'm also in the "please don't get married for the wrong reasons" camp. I don't see myself as particularly noncommittal. If the perfect guy walked by, I'd latch right onto him and I'd be happy to be in a monogamous relationship. But I know that I've got my issues that I need to work out... which is part of the reason I'm past the phase where I think a guy is going to be the solution to my problems and actually complete me. When I was my boy-craziest, I had a fantasy about a partner and best friend who I could tell anything and who would give me all the support and love I needed. I've realized what I need is a therapist. 

Also, I'm not willing to compromise on long term happiness. I'd rather date and find short-term companionship than lock myself in a miserable situation. I'm a romantic at heart but I'm also a marriage is serious and forever kind of person. If it ever gets to that place, I plan on knowing the person at least 2 years. You don't just sign your life away to someone who "supposes" you could get married. You need to be in it for the long haul. I don't see the point in jumping into marriage if you don't think it'll last, just date/be in a monogamous relationship without the piece of paper. And if you feel the need to get married (instead of just dating) to be satisfied but that person feels wrong, that seems like a sign you need to go find another person. I know a girl who stuck with the same guy for 10 years though neither of them seems that into the other one. And maybe they'll get married or have a kid eventually. But... why? Go find someone else if neither of you are really happy. I forget the exact wording, she was someone my mom worked with. But she said things like 'oh, if I ask him to marry me he might leave.' It's been TEN YEARS. And her argument for staying was never how much she loved him or cared about him. I'd rather be dating and looking for someone better or just being alone than dealing with that.

[DeLurker]

I never wanted to get married because my view was I wanted to know that each of us wanted to be there, even when things were crappy, because of a sincere desire to want to make things better and work things out - not because of a piece of paper.  I only agreed to get married when it was put to me as an "or were done" scenario.

My family still had this concept that divorce was shameful and being the one to file was somehow disgraceful.  I've heard more than one person in my family say "so-n-so should file for divorce because he/she is the one that did yada yada yada (and the other party is the wronged party).  During one of these conversations I told my Mom that I'd be colossally pissed if my husband filed to divorce me after all the shit I've put up with (this was pre-physical abuse, but everyone knew he was controlling and a general PITA).  When I framed it that way, she had to agree and started to change how she thought about divorce shame.

I never actually told him "I want a divorce!"  - he was served papers while in jail after things got really ugly.

[theredhead77]

6 hours ago, aradia22 said:

@theredhead77 I still think glitter is a funny name but it sounds too positive.

I call him glitter because, like craft glitter, I could never get rid of him. He pops up again every 2-3 months, 6 if I'm lucky. Once he went 18 months. I should have played the "this isn't the number of the person you are looking for" card but I was stupid. I've been downright cruel to try and get him to leave me alone, nope. Telling him to delete my number gets me nowhere, because he says it's my responsibility to not reply, instead of you know, his responsibility to delete my number and leave me alone.

[aradia22]

Practical advice... do you have a function on your phone to block certain numbers? I think most newer phones should have something.

[theredhead77]

44 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

Practical advice... do you have a function on your phone to block certain numbers? I think most newer phones should have something.

Yes. I use blacklist all the time... but it doesn't stop him from texting me, and me seeing it after my app updates and undoes the settings.

[aradia22]

http://www.newlovetimes.com/12-tips-on-how-to-get-someone-to-stop-texting-you-for-good/

[theredhead77]

On 3/25/2017 at 3:47 PM, aradia22 said:

http://www.newlovetimes.com/12-tips-on-how-to-get-someone-to-stop-texting-you-for-good/

Yea, those don't work. Changing my number is my only option at this point and I've had this number for nearly 15 years. It's tied to too much.

[JTMacc99]

On 3/25/2017 at 1:19 PM, theredhead77 said:

I call him glitter because, like craft glitter, I could never get rid of him.

My ex refers to her former boyfriend, who is just an ass and has done me no favors by the way he treated her over the years, as herpes because of the way he flares up into her life from time to time.

And since I bring that up, I'm watching another shitty thing both my ex and another one of my friends are tackling and gives good reason to just hang out with cats for the rest of our lives. Both of them built relationships with the children of these guys. When you break it off, you are also severing the relationship with the child. Which is just shitty. I would feel terrible for my kids if they built a good relationship with somebody I dated for an extended period of time, and then tell them, we're not going to spend time with her anymore. Jeez. But that's the way it has to be sometimes. Messy stuff.  Is there such a thing as a crazy cat guy? Or do I have to leave the cats to women and have to just have one dog who follows me everywhere I go? 

[emma675]

Quote

I'm about to turn 40, single, never married, no kids. I want to be married, I want kids (adoption or step, I have no desire to be pregnant) but as I posted in the dating thread, I'm just going to get a few more cats and call it a life (I can't afford to foster or adopt at this point in my life).

theredhead77, I'm close to the same boat as you, only I'm already 40. I'm still open to finding someone (just signed up for OKC), but I go back and forth lately on whether it's worth the effort. All of my friends are either close by but married with families or spread across the US.  I look back at my 20's and 30's sometimes and wonder why everyone seemed to be able to find someone to settle down with but me, but I was really in no position to get married back then (mentally or physically), so it's probably a good thing. I want to get married, I want to adopt kids (no pregnancy for me!), but I can't gear myself up for the effort all of that takes just yet. I guess I'm just lazy!

[JTMacc99]

2 hours ago, emma675 said:

theredhead77, I'm close to the same boat as you, only I'm already 40. I'm still open to finding someone (just signed up for OKC), but I go back and forth lately on whether it's worth the effort. 

You know, you said you weren't ready mentally or physically back then. I think that now that you feel that you are, the effort won't feel so much like effort. The positive feeling about yourself, and knowing what you want, will go a long way towards having success with finding people you will like. 

When you set up something on OKC, take your time, try to think of it as both a resume and a job listing. Get the best things about you in nice short points, and do the same thing for what you want and what will immediately disqualify somebody. (Note that there is a group of my kind who don't read anything, but you should still do this for yourself.)

I had coffee with somebody a little while ago who did not have her mind in the positive, moving forward place where it sounds like you are. It's an effort for her, because she doesn't have the hope. It's the hope that drives I think. The hope that makes the effort worth it. Hope that you'll find somebody who adds value to your day. 

So be open to it. Don't force it. Definitely set your standards very high. That's going to narrow down the field to almost nobody, but that's okay. If you're happy with your life and who you are, don't you dare bring somebody into it that makes it worse. 

[riley702]

5 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

Is there such a thing as a crazy cat guy? 

Sure! Welcome to the gang!

 

[JTMacc99]

I was kind of picturing me as the guy with a trusty golden retriever who rides in the front seat with me, goes everywhere I go, becomes the one I spend most of my time talking to and so on. There are various examples in the movies of that kind of all by himself guy, who at least has a cool dog.

But damn, a box full of kittens... 

[auntlada]

I am now imagining the Hallmark movie about the man who loves dogs and the woman who loves cats. Surely this has been made already.

[AgentRXS]

So here's the cherry on top of what has been a very shitty week.

I have a friend that was supposed to hang out with me this weekend. I even took Saturday off from work to make time to meet up with this person who I haven't seen in awhile.

So Friday night I text and say "Are we still on for this weekend?" No response.

Texted them again around mid-day Saturday and said "Hey....what's up? Everything ok". Didn't get a response until 12:30am with a text that said "Sorry, not feeling well. Stomachache". I said "Ok, text me tomorrow then"

Finally got a text at 8pm Sunday from them  stating "Hey...what's up? Hope you had a peaceful weekend and all is well. How are you?"  I was flabbergasted. I stated I how it was really hurtful that I took time off to catch up with them and to receive  minimal communication all weekend was pretty shitty.

Their response? "Well, I'm going through a lot right now so excuse me if I'm more concerned about myself, and not about you".

I had to refrain myself from texting back expletives. OK, so they are going through a lot....why not tell me on Friday that you have to cancel our plans instead of not responding at all? Why be so condescending to think my weekend would be "peaceful" after you clearly stood me up? What is with everyone's snotty attitude lately? UGH!

I wasn't going to post about it but the more I think about it, the more angry I get. Just needed  to vent. Instances like this is reason #89334839478239478 that I hate most people. I'm so tired of flaky friends. Is anybody real anymore? Sheesh.

[theredhead77]

Unless someone died or something horrific happened that's a shitty way to treat a friend. You deserve better. 

[BookWoman56]

1 hour ago, AgentRXS said:

Their response? "Well, I'm going through a lot right now so excuse me if I'm more concerned about myself, and not about you".

I had to refrain myself from texting back expletives. OK, so they are going through a lot....why not tell me on Friday that you have to cancel our plans instead of not responding at all? Why be so condescending to think my weekend would be "peaceful" after you clearly stood me up? What is with everyone's snotty attitude lately? UGH!

The tone of that text would be enough to make me rethink or at least question the friendship.  It's understandable that someone would have to cancel at the last minute because of a sudden illness or whatever. I've had to cancel a lunch date with friends maybe an hour before we were supposed to meet because of a migraine, and it sucks. But the point is that I did in fact cancel and apologized for the late notice, although there was nothing to prevent them from having lunch together without me. In your situation, it is just rude to agree to meet with someone, knowing that person would have to take time off from work to hang out, and then be a no-show unless there is a dire emergency that occurred. Your friend was in an accident or had a family member who had to go the hospital? Sure, that's a legitimate reason not to show up and to be unable to let you know. But it's inexcusably rude to be snotty to you because you expressed your hurt feelings over being stood up after you had made a special effort to be able to hang out, and this person couldn't be bothered to let you know he/she wouldn't be able to make it. Obviously I don't know this person, but I'd be willing to bet that if you had treated this person the same way, all hell would have broken loose, because I've met this type before.  I don't have any practical advice other than to say, if this person thinks your time has so little value that it's perfectly okay to leave you hanging for most of a day, then maybe this person is less of a real friend and more of a friend only when it's convenient for him/her. 

Over the last year, for a variety of reasons, I've ended up ghosting a few former friends and some family members because I reached my bullshit quota with them. I try not to assess friendships in terms of whether the time/effort/money I put into them is equal to what the other person does, because often there's an ebb and flow in relationships where one person gives a little more and one person takes, and then things even out. But sometimes you realize that the only thing you have in common with someone is that you used to be friends, and if you were starting from scratch, this would not be someone you chose as a friend, or that you have been the only one investing anything meaningful into the friendship for entirely too long. 

[AgentRXS]

Quote

Obviously I don't know this person, but I'd be willing to bet that if you had treated this person the same way, all hell would have broken loose, because I've met this type before.  I don't have any practical advice other than to say, if this person thinks your time has so little value that it's perfectly okay to leave you hanging for most of a day, then maybe this person is less of a real friend and more of a friend only when it's convenient for him/her. 

You are exactly right, they would have blew up at me had I done that to them. And that point was made to them, and I also stated that I only seem good enough to hang around when they have nothing better to do. That text was conveniently ignored.

I have so little friends/family that I tend to stay in unhealthy friendships longer than I should. This person, on their good days, is generally fun to be around and a can be a caring friend when they want to be. But I also know (from other experiences) that they are a  classic case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I guess this time I'd had enough of being treated like crap and spoke my mind. I don't plan on contact them again, and I hope they don't contact me either.

[JTMacc99]

16 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

I have so little friends/family that I tend to stay in unhealthy friendships longer than I should. This person, on their good days, is generally fun to be around and a can be a caring friend when they want to be. But I also know (from other experiences) that they are a  classic case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I guess this time I'd had enough of being treated like crap and spoke my mind. I don't plan on contact them again, and I hope they don't contact me either.

There are a lot of us around here who tend to stay in unhealthy friendships/relationships longer than we should. 

I think you did an excellent job of protecting yourself from getting hurt by this person again by speaking your mind.  It's never easy to do so, and I'm happy for you that you did.  From my understanding of what narcissistic personality disorder does, ignoring this person going forward will probably not sit well with this person, and you'll have to protect yourself from that as well.

[theredhead77]

11 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

I have so little friends/family that I tend to stay in unhealthy friendships longer than I should. This person, on their good days, is generally fun to be around and a can be a caring friend when they want to be. But I also know (from other experiences) that they are a  classic case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I guess this time I'd had enough of being treated like crap and spoke my mind. I don't plan on contact them again, and I hope they don't contact me either.

I could have written this. People who only want to be around you when it's convenient for them (you do what they want, go to them, on their terms) are not real friends. Only is the key word. As @BookWoman56 said, there are ebbs and flows but it all evens out in the end.

Be prepared for increasing attacks, or pretending nothing is wrong. If it's the former, it's so much easier to walk away from. If it's the later, and they apologize and try to make it right you should remember their past behaviors before deciding how to proceed. Remember, you pick your acquaintances and friends. You can choose to walk away from them at any time.

[Bastet]

11 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

But I also know (from other experiences) that they are a  classic case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Run like the wind!  I hate to speak ill of someone with a mental disorder, but with NPD psychotherapy can only help so much (and nothing else helps at all), and the very nature of the disorder means most people with NPD never seek out psychotherapy to begin with.

Regardless of the reason behind this so-called friend's behavior, it's better to have one healthy relationship than 100 unhealthy ones.  You're right to cut off contact.

[NutMeg]

Anyone here with the experience of a relative in their late 60s or 70s suddenly remarrying a much younger person (i.e. 15-20y years younger) and then having less and less interactions, or weird interactions ("all is fine, I'm so happy with my life, bye", when the previous call was in tears of "he wants me to get rid of X who's been in my life for so long, and I can't, I just can't, if one of them has to go I'd rather it's him"). I have a strong feeling that it's a toxic situation, if not abusive, and friends who have been shun aside feel the same. At the same time, she never says things are wrong (but she only calls me when he's away) and I'm thousands of miles away, and it's just little me, and while I could take on that guy any day verbally (and I did once on the phone when she called me very distressed), he's probably three times my weight and I'm scared of any physical confrontation if no one else will be there with me, I'm thinking I owe it to myself and my kid to not put my life in danger (that seems dramatic, but somehow it's a danger signal flashing at me, I don't know how to explain it, even to myself, part of me says you have to go, part says this is seriously dangerous and sometimes I even feel like a drama queen for even thinking of that danger, but it seems real, because I'm still the person closest to her, and it's like my shackles have been active more and more each time I interacted with this man). 

Last summer, she had a health scare and two friends of her contacted me. I live literally on the other side of the world, and that summer I was in Europe with my son for a project that was important for his studies. My relative, when I reached her, said that she was fine, and that her friends had been awful to her husband. I didn't completely trust her, but at least in her voice I heard she was fine. Still, the worries the friends raised matched my (maybe vivid) fears. Then again, when I asked her sister who would also have to travel from Europe if she would be there with me if I went, because I told her I was scared to do it alone, she said she wouln't come.

I'm really torn. Part of me wants to say "hey, your choice, live with it", but another part is like "wow, wow, this doesn't sound like her, either she's becoming senile or as she's had once in the past she doesn't want to ask for help". I'm very torn and the distance doesn't help. If I lived closer to her, and even if I could not reach up to her, I could at least reach to her GP or some such for advice - she has lost an enormous amount of weight, she's been overweight for years, but now she looks very gaunt. But with her friends and other relatives not willing to step up, and her not willing to say anything is wrong, I'm just left with my nightmare scenarios and inner malaise, but no way or even real reason to act. 

I need an outsider perspective, and I lurk enough around here to know that you all can be both a great support and very helpful. So here goes - still feels like a bottle in the sea because I carried this for so long without finding any answer I was happy with, so now I'm letting you all good people in :)  

P.S.: Sorry, I mistakenly posted here instead of in the family thread but I don't know how to move it now. Can a mod help?       

Edited April 6, 2017 by NutMeg
To add a PS because I posted in the wrong thread (well, it's still relationship, but mostly it's family)

[theredhead77]

@NutMeg you can contact the police department in the city/town she lives in and ask them to do a welfare check for suspected elder abuse.

Edited April 7, 2017 by theredhead77

[auntlada]

DHS may also be able to do that, although they are probably overworked and so may not be bable to do a good job.

[NutMeg]

4 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

@NutMeg you can contact the police department in the city/town she lives in and ask them to do a welfare check for suspected elder abuse.

That's a good point that I'll keep in mind. At this stage, I'm afraid though that even if they show up for a 10 min visit they'll both play their song and dance that all is well. But you're right, if things don't change I should and I will.  

3 hours ago, stewedsquash said:

If you think she is not in her correct state of mind, yes call for a welfare check. If this is just her standard back and forth drama, go live your life. 

I strongly suspect she's either not in her correct emotional state of mind and/or may be flirting with Alzheimer. Then again, she's still heading the company she created and for all purposes is still working almost as much as before. Except that now he's almost constantly by his side. It's like she has a bodyguard - and I don't know if I should go :) for levity or :( for concern.  

3 hours ago, auntlada said:

DHS may also be able to do that, although they are probably overworked and so may not be bable to do a good job.

I hadn't even thought of DHS, so will look into it too. Although I kind of think that a short visit won't reveal much if there is indeed a case of abuse that is not physical and that she thinks should be kept secret.

Thank you all for your advice, which I'll definitely keep in mind. 

[emma675]

And some women are so afraid of what the abuser has threatened to do to them/their family/their friends/etc. if they leave, they can't leave without help.

I'm not saying this is the case, but I feel like saying a woman in an abusive relationship can just easily up and walk away is not always accurate.

[Bastet]

55 minutes ago, emma675 said:

I feel like saying a woman in an abusive relationship can just easily up and walk away is not always accurate.

It almost never is, because even if her economic and family/friend support circumstances eliminate many of the typical barriers, that doesn't account for what's going on in her head.  Just as someone who suffers from depression inherently views her life circumstances differently than she would without that illness, so does a victim of abuse process her circumstances and options differently than she would if she wasn't being psychologically abused (which happens well before the first shove or punch, and in fact the physical may not ever even be part of it).  A victim of depression who commits suicide isn't selfish, and a victim of abuse who stays in the relationship isn't a drama queen.

And, yes, NutMeg, you are right to perceive the situation as you do; there are classic signs of abuse present, so you are not over-reacting or being hyperbolic to treat it as such.

It is, in fact, wildly frustrating at times, because you want to be able to wave a magic wand and say, "See things how they are and get out!"  But you can no more do that than tell a depressed friend to snap out of it and cheer up.  You're largely limited to emotional support and empowering her to make her own decisions.  Here are some basic guidelines for friends and family, as published by the National Domestic Violence Hotline.

[ari333]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

It almost never is, because even if her economic and family/friend support circumstances eliminate many of the typical barriers, that doesn't account for what's going on in her head.  Just as someone who suffers from depression inherently views her life circumstances differently than she would without that illness, so does a victim of abuse process her circumstances and options differently than she would if she wasn't being psychologically abused (which happens well before the first shove or punch, and in fact the physical may not ever even be part of it).  A victim of depression who commits suicide isn't selfish, and a victim of abuse who stays in the relationship isn't a drama queen.

And, yes, NutMeg, you are right to perceive the situation as you do; there are classic signs of abuse present, so you are not over-reacting or being hyperbolic to treat it as such.

It is, in fact, wildly frustrating at times, because you want to be able to wave a magic wand and say, "See things how they are and get out!"  But you can no more do that than tell a depressed friend to snap out of it and cheer up.  You're largely limited to emotional support and empowering her to make her own decisions.  Here are some basic guidelines for friends and family, as published by the National Domestic Violence Hotline.

THIS ^^^^^^^ so much this.

[DeLurker]

@NutMeg - Age difference aside, it sounds like he is an extremely controlling person and that he has made an effort to either cut her off or insert himself into her support circle.   Chances are she is not going to volunteer any information about problems because of fear and embarrassment.  And fear may not mean fear of physical abuse, but through intimidation and guilt.  Sounds like she has been pretty accomplished so there is embarrassment and shame that you've gotten yourself into such a bad situation and that may be a completely foreign concept to her.

Having been in a long term abusive relationship, I can tell you it conditions your thinking.  Everything is based on the calculation of what won't set him off and the torrent of degrading comments and insults erode even the most self confident and self assured people.  Alternate that with intense doses of love and affection and your brain and emotions never know what is next. 

And recognizing that you are in an abusive relationship is a brutal realization.  I knew something was not "right", but I never thought "abuse".  Abused women didn't look like me - I had a college degree, a hard job that I was good at, I did not come from a broken home or an abusive background...and Abusers didn't look like him - abusers were slovenly, uneducated, coarse...he was none of those things.  If anyone had told me I was in an abusive relationship, I would have thought no way!  But I was - and getting to the point where I could admit that took so so much.

I'd think about calling her and telling her that you are concerned about the changes in her life - the weight loss, the dropping of her network of friends, any changes in her interaction with you - something like she always sounded so animated and ready to tackle any problems, but now you don't hear the joie de vivre in her voice any longer.  Ask her to get a thorough physical to make sure she is in good health and there is not a medical reason for the changes. 

Talk about the symptoms - not your suspicions.  She's probably kidding herself that no one else has noticed the changes in her.  Let her know that if she ever needs to talk, you're there and more importantly, that if she ever needs someone to just listen, you're there for that too.

[aradia22]

Quote

I was kind of picturing me as the guy with a trusty golden retriever who rides in the front seat with me, goes everywhere I go, becomes the one I spend most of my time talking to and so on. There are various examples in the movies of that kind of all by himself guy, who at least has a cool dog.

A dog is WAY too normal. Unless you're a gruff cowboy type and you've got an old hunting dog. Golden retriever is rom-com material. Have you considered a snake?

[JTMacc99]

2 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

A dog is WAY too normal. Unless you're a gruff cowboy type and you've got an old hunting dog. Golden retriever is rom-com material. Have you considered a snake?

I am much more rom-com than cowboy, so no surprise that's where my mind went. 

God no to a snake. Guys who sit around the house talking to a pet snake are one step away from being a character on Gotham. 

How about a wise cracking bird?

[DeLurker]

15 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

How about a wise cracking bird?

I think having a constant supply of bird poop down the back of your shirt is a Dating Don't.

So is having a ferret that lives in your car.

Edited April 7, 2017 by DeLurker

[ratgirlagogo]

On 3/27/2017 at 11:41 AM, JTMacc99 said:

Is there such a thing as a crazy cat guy? Or do I have to leave the cats to women?

Oh for god's sake of course not:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/summeranne/30-renowned-authors-inspired-by-cats?utm_term=.dmOROJJXe#.me8mWkkRe

Some women there OBVIOUSLY but check out that list of crazy cat guys(and those pictures!):  Mark Twain, Jean Cocteau, Stephen King, Neil Gaiman, Jean-Paul Sartre, Jack Kerouac, Ernest Hemingway, William Burroughs, Philip K. Dick, Samuel Johnson, Charles Bukowski, Edward Gorey, Edgar Allan Poe, Raymond Chandler, William Carlos Williams, Truman Capote, George Plimpton, Herman Hesse, Peter Mathiessen, Julio Cortazar, W. H. Auden, Jorge Luis Borges, Jacques Derrida.  Not on that list but maybe my favorite cat lover was Michel de Montaigne who of course asked, when I play with my cat, how do I know she's not playing with me more than I'm playing with her? 

[JTMacc99]

24 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Not on that list but maybe my favorite cat lover was Michel de Montaigne who of course asked, when I play with my cat, how do I know she's not playing with me more than I'm playing with her

That's cute! My new cat, pictures in the pet photos thread, definitely uses the humans as toys. 

And back to the point, I'm not quite ready to pack it in and just live with animals for the rest of my life. 

[Bastet]

Pierce Brosnan also has a cat, which for me definitively answer the question (yes, I know you were being facetious).  But, other male celebrities who have/had cats include: George Clooney, Clark Gable, Steve Martin, Morgan Freeman, Johnny Cash, Robert Downey Jr., Ewan McGregor, David Bowie, Russell Brand, Marlon Brando, Bobby Flay, Ricky Gervais, Jesse Eisenberg, Jay Leno, Vincent Price, John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, Alice Cooper, James Dean, Leonard Nimoy, Alexander Skarsgaard, Simon Pegg, Axl Rose, and Michael Showalter, who wrote a book called Guys Can Be Cat Ladies, Too.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Bastet

[riley702]

Don't forget Freddie Mercury:

[NutMeg]

13 hours ago, Bastet said:

It almost never is, because even if her economic and family/friend support circumstances eliminate many of the typical barriers, that doesn't account for what's going on in her head.  Just as someone who suffers from depression inherently views her life circumstances differently than she would without that illness, so does a victim of abuse process her circumstances and options differently than she would if she wasn't being psychologically abused (which happens well before the first shove or punch, and in fact the physical may not ever even be part of it).  A victim of depression who commits suicide isn't selfish, and a victim of abuse who stays in the relationship isn't a drama queen.

And, yes, NutMeg, you are right to perceive the situation as you do; there are classic signs of abuse present, so you are not over-reacting or being hyperbolic to treat it as such.

It is, in fact, wildly frustrating at times, because you want to be able to wave a magic wand and say, "See things how they are and get out!"  But you can no more do that than tell a depressed friend to snap out of it and cheer up.  You're largely limited to emotional support and empowering her to make her own decisions.  Here are some basic guidelines for friends and family, as published by the National Domestic Violence Hotline.

Bastet, thank you very much for this link to the guidelines which contains other links that I'm going to read attentively. Thank you for the mental support too - sometimes it feels as if I'm building crazy scenarios in my mind and having others' external opinion here has been helpful and validating.

11 hours ago, DeLurker said:

I'd think about calling her and telling her that you are concerned about the changes in her life - the weight loss, the dropping of her network of friends, any changes in her interaction with you - something like she always sounded so animated and ready to tackle any problems, but now you don't hear the joie de vivre in her voice any longer.  Ask her to get a thorough physical to make sure she is in good health and there is not a medical reason for the changes. 

Talk about the symptoms - not your suspicions.  She's probably kidding herself that no one else has noticed the changes in her.  Let her know that if she ever needs to talk, you're there and more importantly, that if she ever needs someone to just listen, you're there for that too.

Delurker, thank you for your whole post and most specifically this last part. I like the advice to focus on symptoms, or more generally on facts and objective situations, I feel this would indeed be a better (or at least easier) way to get the conversation going. (I keep asking her to go for a full physical, but so far she agrees but escapes with non excuses like "too busy", etc.) 

In more fun stuff, regarding the discussion about men and cats, reading the list of famous cat lovers I'm starting to think there might be a strong correlation between creativity and love of cats :)

Slightly related, but this reminds me on the Men and Cats books that's on my side table and that I open randomly for a big smile - https://www.buzzfeed.com/jarrylee/des-hommes-et-des-chatons?utm_term=.miqlDVnq9#.fy8D5GvOw

(this is the only link I found that shows more than the cover picture.) What makes it work is how unexpected some of the pairings are. And for what it's worth, none of the pictures in this link are in my top 10.   

[JTMacc99]

56 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

Slightly related, but this reminds me on the Men and Cats books that's on my side table and that I open randomly for a big smile

In the Chit Chat thread, we've discussed how clicking on my StitchFix link has caused people to get targeted adds now. I wonder what kind of ads I might get after clicking on that link. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by JTMacc99

[JTMacc99]

After I had been going over the various frustrations in my mind and the various conversations I've been having with various women, my therapist looked at me on Friday and essentially told me I have spring fever. 

I'm not sure if the solution for that is to start swiping right, or to go outside and do a lot of vigorous yard work. 

[auntlada]

Do you need some of Granny's spring tonic?