Relationship Thread: Advice, Venting And Everything Else

[JTMacc99]

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29 MINUTES AGO, BLERGH SAID:

JTMac, Not that its my biz  but perhaps it may be a worthy goal to try to figure out how to move forward in your life entirely on your own  then seeing if you'd prefer to remain on your own before seeking out any new companions.

 

So, @Blergh, I've been separated and on my own for a LONG time. It was absolutely a worthy goal to figure out how to move forward on my own. Being almost entirely on my own is not a new thing for me at this point. Over the past few years I figured out money, parenting, how to deal with all of the things that come with this situation. I got to the end of last year and determined that most of my shit was under control, and that it was time to wrap up the last few things, like actually getting divorced, and to start thinking about trying to find somebody to share my awesomeness with going forward. 

So my comment about trying to figure out how to find somebody who has issues that work with my issues rather than stacking on top of my issues is a relatively new lesson I learned this year.  Always trying to move forward, always learning about myself, and I'm just hoping that at some point I'll stumble upon a good thing.

Edited October 18, 2016 by JTMacc99

[DeLurker]

@DisneyBoy - I know nothing of sleepwalking, but it sounds as if that wasn't it.  What an awkward position this puts you in!  I have no sensible advice to offer, but I am so sorry this happened.

@JTMacc99 - I expect it will be an evolving process of figuring out what works for you and for the collective you when you find another partner.  We're all unique individuals with our own idiosyncrasies (since we were talking about that in Peeves!) and what works for our family.  I suspect you've already have a list of things that you don't want or cannot tolerate based of your marriage and most recent relationship, but you seem pretty open to working through rough patches with the right person (which I think is fantastic).  From my perspective, a lot of people re-entering the dating world after a long term relationship/marriage are rigidly holding on to partner specs that they held in younger years. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by DeLurker

[JTMacc99]

Good lord:

2 hours ago, DeLurker said:

From my perspective, a lot of people re-entering the dating world after a long term relationship/marriage are rigidly holding on to partner specs that they held in younger years. 

How does one live life and not evolve?  

4 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

I don't know if we'll have to share a room again on this trip.

I think that you really need to figure out a way to make sure you don't. I get the business trip side of things, but I think that you can make the case when you get back to the office that you tried the first night, but because of certain issues, you weren't able to sleep and it badly affected your work the next day.  That would be my two cents. Somehow make sure you don't have to share rooms again.

[DisneyBoy]

Thanks for letting me vent, guys. You're all right - it wasn't sleepwalking. That was my attempt to make myself feel better about his behavior.

I feel badly because I don't think he's a bad guy, but at the same time I don't get how pouncing on a sleeping person is at all acceptable. Anyway, I don't think I have to share a room with him anymore...

Anyone ever had a similar situation?

Edited October 18, 2016 by DisneyBoy

[ZaldamoWilder]

@DisneyBoy - I'm so sorry.  That's awkward as hell.   I was just going to say it doesn't sound genuine at all.   My daughter and my mom are sleepwalkers.  I'm not saying it looks the same on everybody, but in our family anyway, it's hard to tell what's happening at first because even though they are asleep, they don't look it.  Eyes are opened and if you're not paying attention there's even conversation.   It's not until you listen closely to what they're saying that you understand what you're looking at (they're speaking English but it doesn't make sense).   Also the physical movements are gonna be more dangerous to the walker than the person they're in the room with - they're not conscious at all so they're not conscious of objects.  But it sounds like this guy was pretty aware of where he was going.   Then you worked it out but the final kicker is there wouldn'tve been any reason for him to act all weird or embarrassed about it in the morning had it been legitimate.   

I've never been in a hotel room with a coworker but years ago I accepted a car ride from one of our Managing Directors.   It wasn't planned, we both got into the elevator at the same time, made small talk, he asked me where I was headed, I told him.  He said you want a lift, my car's around the corner (there's a parking garage on our office building block) and I'm going uptown anyway.  I shrugged and said sure.    So, reasonably close proximity.  He was the kind of guy a peon like me should've been intimidated by but I didn't know any better.  Anyway, I was super comfortable, he was super comfortable.   Within about a mile of my drop off point, he reached over and put his hand on my knee.   He took his hand away and sheepishly apologized saying something about reaching for the gear shift.    The only things wrong with that were that the car was an automatic and when I looked back up at him, the expression on his face had gone from apologetic sheep to predatory wolf in a snap.  Not dangerous like oh my God I'm about to murdered, but lecherous.    I asked him to stop the car and he apologized again, saying he didn't mean to offend me.  I said I'm cool,  I'm not ditching you, we're here (at my destination).  He said oh, ok good, have a nice night.    I said thanks for the lift.   Why all the niceties you ask?  No idea, I was young and dumb.  We worked in adjoining, but not overlapping departments.   So I didn't notice that I hadn't seen him in a while until the gossipy long term temp (who knew everything there was to know about everyone in the 18 months she'd been there) in our department said hey did you hear about  _______?  I said no what about him?   She said he was hustled outta here by security after having a meeting with _____ (ceo).   I said he was fired???  She said the technical term is a mutual parting but yeah he's gone.  I said what'd he do?  She said sexual harassment.   I stood there with my mouth opened.  She said yeah he'd been a raging perv for years but finally ____,  ______,  and ______ went to hr with times and dates and their manager backed them up.   

I shudder and I think that the way in which these people operate sometimes is - what's the worst that can possibly happen?  I get rejected, no harm no foul, they might even be willing to risk some measure of embarrassment over it.   But, if the object of their advance is amenable......hey, this could be a bunch of fun.   <---- creeper's thought bubble.   I'm glad you're ok.

[DeLurker]

So this is both relationship and pet related. 

As I've said, I was in a horrible horrible marriage which ended dramatically/traumatically then proceeded to get worse.  For several years after I was able to leave the state of California, I was in rehab, physical therapy and/or just learning to function again.  During this time I had an incredible amount of support from my parents, my family and my kids.  My dog went to live with my brother in Florida (while I was in Texas) and died shortly before I was able to go for a visit.  That was in 2008.

Earlier this year I bought a house and got a rescue cat a couple of months later.  In early September, I adopted a dog.  I have always loved animals and really thought my enjoyment of Sir Robin (cat) and Kokuma (dog - also called Kook) was just because I liked animals. 

I realized a few days ago that they are the only parts of my life that have been untouched by my marriage.  All my friends and family knew him, my prior dog we got because I wanted a dog, but he needed a pure bred (I would have just gone the shelter route), my car was bought when we were together, my  important "stuff", and blah blah blah.  And of course he is the father to my children.

When the relationship ends, there isn't a button where you can reset your life to zero.  I didn't realize that adding something that is total ex-free was something I needed.  And needed badly.  I mean the house is totally ex-free, but I've never been overly attached to any residence (probably the result of a nomadic upbringing as a military brat).

I love my dog and cat anyway, but now there is an extra dose of gratitude because they are really part of my healing.

[JTMacc99]

I'd just like to say that depression and its related anxiety sucks. 

Not news to anybody, but my heart goes out to all of you who have to deal with it.

[DisneyBoy]

On 18/10/2016 at 4:31 PM, ZaldamoWilder said:

@DisneyBoy - I'm so sorry.  That's awkward as hell.   I was just going to say it doesn't sound genuine at all.   My daughter and my mom are sleepwalkers.  I'm not saying it looks the same on everybody, but in our family anyway, it's hard to tell what's happening at first because even though they are asleep, they don't look it.  Eyes are opened and if you're not paying attention there's even conversation.   It's not until you listen closely to what they're saying that you understand what you're looking at (they're speaking English but it doesn't make sense).   Also the physical movements are gonna be more dangerous to the walker than the person they're in the room with - they're not conscious at all so they're not conscious of objects.  But it sounds like this guy was pretty aware of where he was going.   Then you worked it out but the final kicker is there wouldn'tve been any reason for him to act all weird or embarrassed about it in the morning had it been legitimate.

.....I think that the way in which these people operate sometimes is - what's the worst that can possibly happen?  I get rejected, no harm no foul, they might even be willing to risk some measure of embarrassment over it.   But, if the object of their advance is amenable......hey, this could be a bunch of fun.   <---- creeper's thought bubble.   I'm glad you're ok.

Thanks for the support. I'm glad I'm okay too, but for a while there I was laying in bed wondering how far I'd have to defend myself. Would he try again later in the night? How would I explain this situation to my employer? I mean, I had just met the guy....there was no way if knowing how it would go. Luckily he just avoided me and palled around with the others the rest of the trip...but your description of sleepwalkers helped me know my gut had it right and that helped me through the rest of that morning. Thanks. I tend to question my instincts too much and then feel guilty for being suspicious of people...

I'd like to think this was an exception to how this guy usually operates, but I've also seen these patterns of compulsive behavior emerge in people, male and female. Seizing the moment has its time and place.

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Within about a mile of my drop off point, he reached over and put his hand on my knee.   He took his hand away and sheepishly apologized saying something about reaching for the gear shift.   

See? That's the stuff that makes me see red. Asking, say during the next week in the parking lot at work, if you had any interest in grabbing a coffee sometime in the future, like a gentleman, would be fine. But not when he has you trapped in his car and is about to learn where you live. And certainly not wordlessly by copping a feel like a perv.

CONSENT - Did no one ever teach these morons that word?

Delurker, I'm so glad you have two furry friends to give you a new emotional start. Embrace their warmth! Embrace the healing! They are the first of more new good things to come.

Edited October 21, 2016 by DisneyBoy

[ZaldamoWilder]

4 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Thanks for the support. I'm glad I'm okay too, but for a while there I was laying in bed wondering how far I'd have to defend myself. Would he try again later in the night? How would I explain this situation to my employer? I mean, I had just met the guy....there was no way if knowing how it would go. Luckily he just avoided me and palled around with the others the rest of the trip...but your description of sleepwalkers helped me know my gut had it right and that helped me through the rest of that morning. Thanks. I tend to question my instincts too much and then feel guilty for being suspicious of people...

I'd like to think this was an exception to how this guy usually operates, but I've also seen these patterns of compulsive behavior emerge in people, male and female. Seizing the moment has its time and place.

See? That's the stuff that makes me see red. Asking, say during the next week in the parking lot at work, if you had any interest in grabbing a coffee sometime in the future, like a gentleman, would be fine. But not when he has you trapped in his car and is about to learn where you live. And certainly not wordlessly by copping a feel like a perv.

CONSENT - Did no one ever teach these morons that word?

wait, what?  I have to sideye whatever corporate protocol encouraged that you both share the same room.   Your mention of instinct makes me remember what I heard some tv expert say about women and vulnerability.  He was referring specifically to when a woman is walking alone and hears footsteps behind her, why 9 times out of 10 she won't turn over her shoulder and look at who's approaching.  I was really interested because my best friend experienced this exact scenario (she was thrown to the ground and mugged) and when we talked about it weeks later, she said despite sensing someone behind her she never turned around.  When I asked her why not she shrugged her shoulders.   The expert said women don't turn around because they don't want to offend whoever's behind them with suspicious glances.   When the ironic part is it's that suspicion that rescues them.  In other words they'd rather be polite and potentially unsafe than rude and guarded.  I say all that to say, even if you think it makes you look like a jerk, don't be embarrassed to trust your instincts.

Lol.  That's a sweet sentiment, but our Mr. Trump* was no gentleman.  He was married (which stupidly is why it didn't even occur to me to question my security), so fast grabs were his entire repertoire.   As far as consent, he was more of a beg forgiveness than ask permission sort.   If it's any consolation he never knew where I lived, my drop off point was a transit hub.   He heard a mini radio I had on my desk once and asked what I was listening to, when I told him, he said oh the plantation station.   Dead serious.  So really? shame on me for not believing him when he showed me who he was the first time.

*as close as it may sound, I'm not actually referring to Donald Trump.  

[Blergh]

JT Mac,

 

 Thanks for clarifying (and sorry for not responding here sooner). I'm glad that you seem to have made quite a few steps of the thousand-mile journey already but I just hope that you come to realize that being in a good relationship is one of life's luxuries not necessities. Better to be alone than to wish one was, IMO.

[JTMacc99]

5 hours ago, Blergh said:

Better to be alone than to wish one was, IMO.

Fuck yeah.  I was thinking something along these lines this morning.  I just can't put myself in a position where I'm once again tolerating intolerable behavior because I understand the root cause of it.

Meaning that a person I care about lashed out at me yesterday, and it was driven by pure depression related anxiety, so I had sympathy for what it must be like to be her. And I just absorbed it. It was the right thing to do, as engaging a completely illogical attack with somebody who literally can't control the emotions would accomplish nothing. I also have the experience to know that it will settle down and things will move forward when the anxiety attack drops down from 10 to somewhere manageable.  

And to your point, I'm better off alone than to get into another relationship where unpleasantness, conflict, or just ordinary unhappiness is considered "normal". 

[DeLurker]

That sucks and I am sorry that happened.  If this person interacts with the kids, then might I suggest re-thinking this approach?  Because the kids shouldn't grow up being required to manage the adult.  And it is a solid basis for talking with the other person, once things have settled, about not putting that on a child.

And if this person does not interact with your children, maybe further insulating yourself is in order.  And let them know why - you can't be the emotional sponge that absorbs all their anxiety because it isn't fair to you, isn't healthy for you and doesn't help them develop more effective coping skills.

[JTMacc99]

Good advice, as usual @DeLurker.

The children are completely isolated from this.  It was business as usual for them yesterday. And as for me, I have found some really good, available resources to help me quickly release the stress and recover these days, so they wouldn't have even picked up on anything being off.

[DisneyBoy]

Updates:

I realized today that it started getting around work that something had happened with me and Mr Frisky. Another colleague asked if he had sleepwalked and I said "ermmm... I hope so..." He figured out the rest, but said he'd keep a lid on it. He explained that he saw Frisky discussing it with a supervisor and that his expression was a jovial one. That irked me - guess he was playing up the excuse as a silly misunderstanding.

Then, before bed I passed his room (still at the conference) and since the door was open and he was talking to another co-worker, I randomly said goodnight. He stopped me and asked me in, and then said "I just wanted to say I'm sorry. I feel uncomfortable and I don't know why so I thought I would say I'm sorry."

....

Naturally, I shrugged and said okay and left. By saying it while the other guy was still in the room, he didn't leave me in the position to ask exactly what he thought had happened. And his "I dunno" thing bothered me. I appreciate the guts it takes to offer an apology at all but it seems like he doesn't get it.

I don't know. I think right back to your Creeper Mentality thing and this fits it exactly. He wasn't condescending or smarmy...but still.

 

Edit:  Ended up talking to him about it, but my post got deleted.

I went and spoke to him one-on-one and he maintained that he didn't understand what happened entirely. I told him again and then he sighed - "oh, I'm glad it went only that far!" Apparently he gropes people while asleep, though it's usually his partners in his bed. Only once did he enter someone else's bed and caressed (?) his pal's girlfriend. Totally asleep.

I pointed out that he could have warned me ("but I typically only do this to people in my bed!") and that he could get arrested for this kind of thing. He agreed it could approach rape but insisted he had no memory of it and would fess up if it was consciously done. I explained that he seemed conscious enough and his breathing changed after I yelled at him and he went to bed...and then got up to pee. He shrugged and said he hoped I could believe him and added that he asked for a single room for the rest of the trip to prevent anything else from happening.

After another apology he wanted a handshake, which I gave and left it at that, saying it was okay. Honestly, I'm still unsettled. Maybe this is a real thing, maybe it's just him permitting himself to play, with an excuse...either way, creepy. I get that he was being genuine, but I'm stunned at how calmly he discussed all this, like he accidentally spilled coffee on my shirt or something.

Had I reciprocated and he'd woken up while doing the deed, would I have been the one assaulting him purely because he "wasn't conscious"??

Weird.

Edited October 23, 2016 by DisneyBoy

[ZaldamoWilder]

He wasn't asleep.  It's ok if he knows you know that.

[DeLurker]

@DisneyBoy - I'm impressed you talked with him one-on-one.  It is a bizarre situation to begin with, you were unsettled (to say the least) by it and he was just so casual about it when you saw him later (when there was another person with him).  If it were me, I would be completely wigged out still.  You've got a lot more composure than most people would have had.  And since it was a work function, you could have raised hell for him with HR.

That's the thing that bothers me most - is he a predator?  Would a person with less composure or junior to him let it continue because they wouldn't be prepared for that and not know how to handle it?

[DisneyBoy]

I don't know that predator is necessarily the right word. My impression is that he's just so immature he thinks this is acceptable or forgivable behavior. I mean, clearly no one has objected to it in the past openly, so maybe he thinks because he's a "nice guy" - ie not violent - and everyone else was equally frisky that makes it fine.

I am really proud of myself for confronting him on it though, even though I didn't deliver a smackdown. All too often stuff like this happens and no one says anything. In a really weird way I guess I feel like all the stuff we've heard about Trump and Cosby echoed in my head a little bit and spurned me on. If nothing is said then the situation repeats itself. Of course I didn't experience anything half as horrific as those women, but I think the conversation they helped start will have ripples in an impactful way.

Thankfully this bozo doesn't have any authority over anybody as far as I'm aware and I won't have to work with him again.

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He wasn't asleep.  It's ok if he knows you know that.

 

Thank you and yes. I'm pretty sure if he was paying attention to my eyes and tone as I accepted his apology, he'll be fully aware of the fact I didn't believe him.

[JTMacc99]

So I was thinking, we all carry scars. We all have sore points. Even with my high level of tolerance for bullshit, and my tendency to make excuses for the behavior of others, I have limits.

I realized yesterday that you can't Charlie Brown me. You can't enjoy what comes with me and then pull the fucking football away. Because after I get back off the ground, drink off the pain, I'm done. It's apparently a very sore point for me. Good grief.

[DeLurker]

Ouch.  Although it seems so obvious, it is something that can take an otherwise intelligent person way too long to learn.  First comes recognizing it and then comes actually implementing the changes to make it stop.  For me, consciously managing how I was responding to a situation took so much effort.  And then when things weren't playing out like they always had, I got a lot of push back trying to manipulate me into caving.

It took me an incredibly long amount of time to stop "compromising" - because when only one of us is compromising, it is something else.  I kept treating him like he was going to be fair this time and he never was.  At some point, I actually heard the duhh when it dawned on me.

Yep, that leaves a scar, but first it has to be a scab.

[JTMacc99]

48 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

At some point, I actually heard the duhh when it dawned on me.

Would you describe that feeling as almost a relief? Like you were released from something?  

[BookWoman56]

For me, that feeling of release is what I call my "voice of Saruman" point. It goes back to the scene in The Lord of the Rings when the wizard Saruman is trying to talk his way out of a situation, and his voice is so powerfully seductive that many of the people there fall for it, but the group of heroes does not because they now can sense the manipulation behind the voice. I experienced that feeling with my first BF, who was asking for a reconciliation after months of on-again, off-again interaction, and I clearly remember the sensation of such relief at not immediately caving in to his request. I was free of the emotional hold he had over me. In other relationships, I have sometimes had similar experiences. For me, I have a fairly high tolerance for BS in a relationship, but once you have gone over my limit, then I'm done. There comes a point when self-preservation kicks in and I consciously know that I cannot continue to care for this person the way I did previously or allow him/her to hurt me any longer, and still maintain my sense of self and self-respect.

[DeLurker]

2 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

Would you describe that feeling as almost a relief? Like you were released from something?  

Initially.  I was silly enough to think that now I finally see what is going on, I can take steps to change it.  Ta-da!  Problem solved!  I couldn't hear the gods laughing at my naiveté, but I am sure it happened.

I did not have the foresight to anticipate push back.  I would have made a lousy military strategist.  The next steps in his playbook were at the ready and now I was playing a new game where I knew none of the rules (ha ha!  Rules in a relationship with the poster boy of the DSM?  Silly silly DeLurker.).  That raised my stress levels exponentially and then trying to fight all the things that were thrown as a result.

But my situation was not the norm, at least I hope not, so if you are dealing with a relatively sane person I would suspect that they would just cut their losses and life as you both know it continues.

4 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

"voice of Saruman"

Classy!  I like this, but unfortunately for me, he had the voice of Saruman and I chronically was held captive by it.

[JTMacc99]

1 hour ago, BookWoman56 said:

There comes a point when self-preservation kicks in and I consciously know that I cannot continue to care for this person the way I did previously or allow him/her to hurt me any longer, and still maintain my sense of self and self-respect.

This. This is exactly how I would describe it. The football got pulled away from me, and shortly after that, I realized that I couldn't care for that person like I did. It still sucks for various reasons, and I'm still annoyed, but my self-respect is carrying me through to better days. Not to mention I have more than enough on my plate elsewhere.

1 hour ago, DeLurker said:

so if you are dealing with a relatively sane person I would suspect that they would just cut their losses and life as you both know it continues.

@DeLurker, I have my suspicions of exactly how far from sane the Lucy's in my life are. I think it will be life goes on.

[theredhead77]

I just have to vent here before I become a 14 year old girl and rant on Facebook. I have standing Black Friday plans with a friend. We've done something every year for the last 6+ years. I confirmed that we were doing something today back in October and it was confirmed. On Monday I was informed that said friend was going wine tasting with other friends, that they were "roped into it" during a Halloween party. No asshole, you had plans with me, first. Reschedule yours. No, they "couldn't" be rescheduled. You love wine tasting, don't make it seem like a chore and don't be surprised that I'm pissed you're flaking on our standing tradition that I fucking confirmed.

Then I made plans with another friend to do something today. Last night when I confirmed she informed me she was going out of town with other friends. So you couldn't tell me earlier?

I have no social plans this 4 day weekend because I was cancelled on so they could do stuff with other friends (of course posting all over Facebook) and I'm seriously pissed at my flaky ass friends.

[JTMacc99]

18 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

I'm seriously pissed at my flaky ass friends.

You should be.  That behavior hits on one of my sore spots these days. The Lucy pulling the football away feeling. You get something positive right in front of you, and then somebody else (people suck sometimes) does something to take it away. 

And that is some seriously shitty behavior from the friend you've been doing something with for years and had planned to do again this year. 

[theredhead77]

Thanks JTMac. I wouldn't have been pissed (or as pissed) if I was invited on the wine tasting trip, or if I was asked if I mined if we postponed our thing until today. At least I know where I stand.

[Moose135]

That is pretty crappy treatment!  I was back home on Long Island for the past week, seeing family for the holiday, and got together with a few friends while I was in town.  There were a couple of people I wanted to see that had other plans, and I would never expect them to cancel on my behalf.  As you say, you know where you stand.

[BookWoman56]

Agree that it's pretty thoughtless behavior. I can understand cancelling because of a legit emergency or unavoidable obstacle, but cancelling at the last minute like that, especially when your friend has known since Halloween that his/her plans have changed, is seriously bad manners. It reeks of "I got a better offer, so I'm ditching you and can't be bothered to tell you until it's too late for you to change your own plans." My usual response to that lack of regard for my feelings is to back the hell up on the friendship temporarily and wait for the other person to make an effort to get together with me. Maybe it's overreaction on my part, but treating me as if our previously agreed upon plans are of zero importance makes me feel that the offending person is taking my friendship for granted. At that point, I am unwilling to invest a lot more energy into maintaining the friendship without evidence that the "friend" actually values my friendship. Certainly if that sort of behavior became an ongoing thing, that's the point at which I would figure that the friendship has reached its expiry point, and we're now more casual acquaintances rather than real friends.

[theredhead77]

@BookWoman56- exactly. If it was a work thing, emergency or even a random, last minute out of town visitor I would completely understand. This was just a straight up  better offer (in their mind) phrased as a chore (with an "ugh") and flaked on me at the last minute. Their memory is notoriously terrible but this was on their calendar (and has been tradition for years). Today I received a cursory "what are you doing for NYE, I'm having a party"; they know damn well I won't go to parties at their house, I've tried, several times, all their friends are standoffish. I declined. Sadly I'm good at stepping back from friendships. Their number has been deleted and I'm not on Facebook much these days. I know it sounds like a with friends like these who needs enemies situation and after a decade of friendship, I'm starting to think this is true.

I have a term, frienquaintance, to describe those who aren't friends but are more than random acquaintances.
This has been a shitty, lonely weekend and I can't wait to go back to work on Monday.

[DeLurker]

Some people are just flaky and making plans with them requires a probability guesstimate as to whether they show up or not.  But if these are people who normally keep commitments, then downgrade them in your social life.  If they call and something sounds appealing to you and it is happening right now?  Go and enjoy their company.  If it is for making a future commitment?  Agree only if you really want to do it and don't mind going alone if they flake.

Edited November 27, 2016 by DeLurker

[Qoass]

I'm not much of a people person so I make my own plans and if I think someone else would enjoy them, I invite them to come along.  Don't want to see the movie I want to see?  Aren't free the day I am?  Then don't come.  I'll go on my own as originally planned.

[theredhead77]

One friend (not the tradition friend) apologized for flaking, she forgot we had plans until they were on the road for their other trip. I know her life is insane right now and accepted her apology. She said she wanted to make it up to me by taking me out to lunch today. So we went out to lunch and she asked for separate checks. She drove so I guess that's what she meant. Maybe it was my misunderstanding. What does "taking you out to lunch" mean to you?

[Bastet]

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What does "taking you out to lunch" mean to you?

Treating you to lunch.  "Let me take you out to lunch" is generally followed by "for your birthday," "to make it up to you," "to cheer you up," etc.  Even if left on its own, it's different from "Let's go get some lunch."  It implies the one doing the inviting will be picking up the check.

[theredhead77]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Treating you to lunch.  "Let me take you out to lunch" is generally followed by "for your birthday," "to make it up to you," "to cheer you up," etc.  Even if left on its own, it's different from "Let's go get some lunch."  It implies the one doing the inviting will be picking up the check.

That's what I thought. Sometimes I can be socially dense though. I typically bring my lunch and I would have accepted the apology declined the offer had I known that wasn't her intent. Oh well, it was only $10 and it got me away from my desk.

[StatisticalOutlier]

How about this one?  I have a friend I've had for over 40 years now (we met in junior high).  And we're real friends, not "Facebook friends"--we've stayed in touch and visited back and forth all these years, and for a while were quite close even though we were living in different cities. 

These days I travel around and don't live in any one place.  I have a website that always shows my current location, and this friend emailed me in the middle of November and said she was going to be where I am and invited me to join her and her husband and kid for Thanksgiving at her niece's house. 

I was actually thrilled because there have been plenty of times when people happened to be where I was but I (and they) didn't know it.  That would include my own sister, but I digress.

I replied to my friend that I already had plans for Thanksgiving, and knew she was coming to see family but would love to get together with her.  She replied that Friday or Saturday might be possible, and that she'd send the hotel's address.  I replied with a couple of random comments and added, "Let me know where you're staying and we'll figure something out." 

I still haven't heard back.  I assume we're not getting together last weekend.

[theredhead77]

@StatisticalOutlier that is so annoying and totally blows!

[Maharincess]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

Treating you to lunch.  "Let me take you out to lunch" is generally followed by "for your birthday," "to make it up to you," "to cheer you up," etc.  Even if left on its own, it's different from "Let's go get some lunch."  It implies the one doing the inviting will be picking up the check.

Jeez, stop hinting.  It'll be my treat!   

I hope you know I'm totally kidding. 

[JTMacc99]

You ever have a meeting/conversation that you needed to have, and then the next day realize that it dragged up 15 years worth of your life to the front of you mind? And with it surfaced, anger, sadness, fear of what's next and pride of what you've done? And then have to go to work? And then at work feel really good because two of your friends needed your help with their shit? And then run face first into that person you try to NOT run face first into? And of course you two smile big smiles and exchange a couple fun words before you get the hell out of there? Because that shit STILL makes your stomach turn upside down, even though your brain is in charge these days? And then finally you look down at the clock and see it's about time to go pick up your daughter who is running in her Girls on the Run 5K tomorrow and will be all excited?

And you realize it's all just your life, and it's more good than bad?

I can't wait to go home, get the fireplace cranked up, watch some TV, and drink something strong.

[DeLurker]

@JTMacc99 - I'm drained just reading the synopsis! Make it a healthy pour of something strong. 

[JTMacc99]

16 hours ago, DeLurker said:

@JTMacc99 - I'm drained just reading the synopsis! Make it a healthy pour of something strong. 

The kitten sensed my stress and comforted me by curling up by my head and purring. It would have been nice if she hadn't waited until 4:45AM when I was sound asleep, but I appreciate the sentiment. 

[TattleTeeny]

Is it terrible to come barging in here, "yell" ^%$^%$#$#$#@#@$%$^&^%!!!&^%&**&^%^$#@@$^!!! with no further explanation? Because, UGH! Sometimes with him, man--I cannot even articulate! This is one of those times!

[DeLurker]

It is perfectly understandable.  Our delicate eyes can take it - rant away.

[TattleTeeny]

Basically, when we have an argument, I feel like 

• he's less mad at whatever we're arging about than he is at the idea that I am mad at him.
• that he's less concerned with reaching a solution than he is with winning.
• he's deliberately obtuse, which leads to false equivalencies, endless "redirects," and repetition.

Not to mention the way he defends himself (like he's a martyr) makes me wonder why he'd put up with someone ever so mean like me, haha!

Seriously, it's the same every time. I don't know how else to tell him I am not interested in old rehashes or past infractions, and I am definitely not picking a fight--why on earth would I want to spend my time arguing with him for fun? If I have an issue, I want to be able to let him know. Further, he should be interested in knowing!

Edited December 5, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[JTMacc99]

7 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

he's deliberately obtuse, which leads to false equivalencies, endless "redirects," and repetition.

::shudder::  False equivalencies. Blech.  I refer to them as emotio-logic.  My least favorite thing ever. Nothing good can come from it. It sounds like a reasonable point since it is normally presented as an If-Then statement, but one thing has nothing to do with the other. 

[TattleTeeny]

It's more like, if I say that I don't get why he repeatedly stays excessively late at work, even though he's not getting paid for it (this usually happens after he complains about not having enough free time), he claims I'm "getting on his case," and that he doesn't get on mine for, say, volunteering a few hours a week at an animal shelter. Not comparable (especially considering that the time I am there is never time that I could be hanging out with him). Not really comparable.

And why do we need comparisons anyway? How about just addressing the singular issue first? If he has one of his own, he is invited to bring that up on his own (he doesn't, because it doesn't actually bother him!).

He's way too smart to argue like this, and he knows I know this because I'm no dummy either--he would never even be with someone he thought was dumb! So why the hell is this is damn schtick every time? Maybe it works with other people but keep it away from your chosen GF, please!

Edited December 5, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[langway]

14 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Basically, when we have an argument, I feel like 

• he's less mad at whatever we're arging about than he is at the idea that I am mad at him.
• that he's less concerned with reaching a solution than he is with winning.
• he's deliberately obtuse, which leads to false equivalencies, endless "redirects," and repetition.

Not to mention the way he defends himself (like he's a martyr) makes me wonder why he'd put up with someone ever so mean like me, haha!

Seriously, it's the same every time. I don't know how else to tell him I am not interested in old rehashes or past infractions, and I am definitely not picking a fight--why on earth would I want to spend my time arguing with him for fun? If I have an issue, I want to be able to let him know. Further, he should be interested in knowing!

This sounds just like me and my boyfriend. When I tell him I am not interested in rehashing/past infractions, he says "But it still bothers me and you should care that it bothers me" For the record, neither one of us has ever cheated or come close to cheating, if that were the case I'd be more understanding. I find it hard to care about minor shit that still "hurts his feelings when he thinks about it" 2 years after the fact. I feel like he just looks for things to complain about whenever I say anything to him. "Hey, your constant drinking of energy drinks is getting to be ridiculous -- you're spending at least $8.00 a day on them. Think you could cut back?" "WHAT? You bought $30.00 worth of makeup 2 weeks ago!" Like, lol.

[TattleTeeny]

Haha, does yours tell you that you're the one who brings up old shit?

[JTMacc99]

19 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

It's more like, if I say that I don't get why he repeatedly stays excessively late at work, even though he's not getting paid for it (this usually happens after he complains about not having enough free time), he claims I'm "getting on his case," and that he doesn't get on mine for, say, volunteering a few hours a week at an animal shelter. Not comparable (especially considering that the time I am there is never time that I could be hanging out with him). Not really comparable.

And why do we need comparisons anyway? How about just addressing the singular issue first?

Yes. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about.  The old, "I can't do XYZ? But you can do ABC?!"  

Hate it with the fire of a thousand suns.  

In my case, it was often being used as the justification for why she was upset in the first place.  It wasn't even a counter argument. It was the foundation for the hurt feelings. I have no idea how to counter it.  The feelings were hurt, and as far as I could tell, they were hurt by the false equivalency.  I was completely boned right from the start.  

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

 

Yes. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about.  The old, "I can't do XYZ? But you can do ABC?!"  

Hate it with the fire of a thousand suns.  

 

It's especially bad when the "but you can" part is not even something that bugs him in the first place! If it doesn't bug you that I do it, be happy about that! Why try to make it bug you just to win? If part of his argument is that he's more laid-back than I am (true), why would he create ways to not be?!

Also, reading back in this thread and figured I'd add that I'm an INFJ ("The Advocate") on the ol' Meyers Briggs.

Edited December 5, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[JTMacc99]

2 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I'm an INFJ

A strength: Insightful – Seeing through dishonesty and disingenuous motives, INFJs step past manipulation and sales tactics and into a more honest discussion. INFJs see how people and events are connected, and are able to use that insight to get to the heart of the matter.

A weakness: Sensitive – When someone challenges or criticizes INFJs’ principles or values, they are likely to receive an alarmingly strong response. People with the INFJ personality type are highly vulnerable to criticism and conflict, and questioning their motives is the quickest way to their bad side.

So, the INFJ would like to get to the heart of the matter and has no tolerance for questioning motives. (BTW, I love this personality stuff because mine read like somebody did an actual study of me.)