S13.E14: Good Intentions

[Wayward Son]

Quote

JIM BEAVER GUEST STARS AS BOBBY SINGER – Jack (Alexander Calvert) and Mary (guest star Samantha Smith) manage to escape Michael’s (guest star Christian Keyes) clutches and end up finding an ally in “apocalyptic world” Bobby Singer (guest star Jim Beaver). Meanwhile, Sam (Jared Padalecki), Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Castiel (Misha Collins) continue to search for a way to open a breach, not realizing that one of their own may be working against them and costing them precious time. PJ Pesce directed the episode written by Meredith Glynn (#1314). Original airdate 3/1/2018.

[gonzosgirrl]

A few nitpicks, but probably my favourite episode of the season.

#TeamFreeWill for the win!

The boys didn't like what Cas did, but I believe they are on board. ETA: gonna put a pre-emptive response in here to the inevitable 'Dean was mean to Cas' brigade. Cas did the right thing, but a pretty harsh and un-Cas-like thing, so yeah, it'll take a minute for them to come around, but they are already accepting it. It's no different than how both Sam and Cas have chastised Dean when he's gone OTT as (a necessary) means to an end.

Spoiler

We already know they are looking for the items next week, so they are on board.

Kickass episode.

I am getting "If bacon's what kills me,then I win." on a t-shirt.

Edited March 2, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[bethy]

Poor little apocalypse-children, never to have seen a hand-puppet show.

Once again. I so don't care about Mary and her pain. And Sam Smith is just is a big ol' ball of meh to me. I think she even sucked the awesome out of Jim Beaver. I knew they weren't going to do it, but when Mary said that Michael was going to kill her to get Jack to do whatever it was I thought, "Do iiiiit."

I feel like directing and music were both kind of weird in this episode. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, bethy said:

Poor little apocalypse-children, never to have seen a hand-puppet show.

Once again. I so don't care about Mary and her pain. And Sam Smith is just is a big ol' ball of meh to me. I think she even sucked the awesome out of Jim Beaver. I knew they weren't going to do it, but when Mary said that Michael was going to kill her to get Jack to do whatever it was I thought, "Do iiiiit."

I feel like directing and music were both kind of weird in this episode. 

I mostly tuned out the AU side, but I must admit I enjoyed Jack making Zachariah go boom. Mary can die any time. AU Bobby is weird.

[Katy M]

I liked this episode.  I think Dean is going to the the "most holy man" they need blood from.  

I'm wondering about Cas. He's weird.  Never been a particular fan, but never hated him before.  May change my tune.

That Gog, Magog scene was awesome.  Glad Donatello is gone, assuming he is.

And, most importantly:  I LOVE BOBBY!!!!!!!!!!

[MysteryGuest]

The CW was giving me fits tonight.  It was totally pixelated, and kept stopping and starting, cutting out so much dialogue.  I almost turned the show off, but managed to stick with it.  I was actually relieved when it was over, but not because I didn't enjoy the parts I did catch.

I have to say that I was actually happy to see Mary tonight.  I was looking forward to seeing her with her sons after the whole BMOL fiasco, so I hope we get that opportunity.  I love Bobby, so I'm always glad to see him.  And I had missed Jack, so I enjoyed their scenes together.  Watching Jack zap Zachariah was very satisfying.

I missed a lot of the dialogue during the scenes with Donatello, so I'm not sure whether they found out that he'd been working with Colonel Sanders.  Man, this version of Cas isn't taking any shit from anyone.  I just hope that they don't have him cross the line into making bad decisions like he did in the past when he thought he was doing the right thing.  Let him truly have learned from his mistakes.   I like smart, sassy Cas.

I definitely need to watch the episode again tomorrow so I can catch what I missed.   

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I missed a lot of the dialogue during the scenes with Donatello, so I'm not sure whether they found out that he'd been working with Colonel Sanders.

Cas found that out when he read his brain or whatever, and then informed Sama nd DEan.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

The CW was giving me fits tonight.  It was totally pixelated, and kept stopping and starting, cutting out so much dialogue.  I almost turned the show off, but managed to stick with it.  I was actually relieved when it was over, but not because I didn't enjoy the parts I did catch.

I have to say that I was actually happy to see Mary tonight.  I was looking forward to seeing her with her sons after the whole BMOL fiasco, so I hope we get that opportunity.  I love Bobby, so I'm always glad to see him.  And I had missed Jack, so I enjoyed their scenes together.  Watching Jack zap Zachariah was very satisfying.

I missed a lot of the dialogue during the scenes with Donatello, so I'm not sure whether they found out that he'd been working with Colonel Sanders.  Man, this version of Cas isn't taking any shit from anyone.  I just hope that they don't have him cross the line into making bad decisions like he did in the past when he thought he was doing the right thing.  Let him truly have learned from his mistakes.   I like smart, sassy Cas.

I definitely need to watch the episode again tomorrow so I can catch what I missed.   

Cas told them that Donatello was working with Asmodeus (he saw it when he stripped the spell from him).

[MysteryGuest]

20 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Cas found that out when he read his brain or whatever, and then informed Sama nd DEan.

 

19 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Cas told them that Donatello was working with Asmodeus (he saw it when he stripped the spell from him).

Thanks!  It's kind of a crappy ending for Donatello, but the whole soulless thing was problematic anyway.  And he'd served his purpose to the story.  They need to start weeding out some of these superfluous characters, so we got rid of two this week...Donatello and Zachariah.  Only 37 more to go...

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

 

Thanks!  It's kind of a crappy ending for Donatello, but the whole soulless thing was problematic anyway.  And he'd served his purpose to the story.  They need to start weeding out some of these superfluous characters, so we got rid of two this week...Donatello and Zachariah.  Only 37 more to go...

Well, I would say they really only got rid of Donatello, because they just brought Zachariah on this week to kill him.  I don't remember seeing him before (not including Seasons 4 and 5 of course)

[Lady Calypso]

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. 

I actually liked what Cas did; I thought for the longest time that this simply wasn't Cas. Maybe it was Asmodeus or maybe it was the Empty version of Cas. But nope, this is truly Cas, just more of a reminder of early series Cas. And you know what? This darker version of Cas is exactly who I want around, though maybe not as smirky. At least we got to see Cas finally get shit done. Good on him. Also what was good? Sam, Dean, AND Cas all weren't randomly overpowered and beaten in a fight this episode. They all managed to win their fights, and with ease.

I really do like Jack. I kind of tuned out some of the Mary stuff, but Jack's always a joy to watch. His continued struggle of managing his powers continues, but it's awesome that he considers Sam and Dean his family and inspiration. Also, what he did to Zachariah was pretty cool.

AU Bobby isn't much fun. I know why he isn't, but I was bored by his scenes.

I'm definitely rewatching this episode.

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

This darker version of Cas is exactly who I want around, though maybe not as smirky.

Yeah, I think it's mostly the smirking and the squirrelly looks that are bugging me.

[catrox14]

I really liked this episode for the most part.

Didn't appreciate the show trying to make Mary's deal be okay just because the Apocalypse happened in the other world cause she didn't. NOPE. Doesn't work that way. Mary was still shitty to Dean and Sam in s12. No amount of AW Bobby given his seal of approval changes what Mary did.

Zachariah was pointless. Bobby was kind of annoying.

Didn't Kevin translate the whole damn angel table in s8???? Why is this even a thing.

I don't feel bad for Donatello that much. 

Loved Dean getting to lop off heads again. That was fun.

I'm interested to see where it goes.

This is was a great episode for Cas to show his moxie. I mostly can't figure out why Dean and Sam wouldn't just kill and then salt and burn Donatello. Leaving a brain dead soulless body at the hospital seems like it's ripe for demon/Asmodeus pickings.  Boys, you know better.

[Castiels Cat]

F#@!
I missed the first 2/3 of the episode.  I forgot again.... Damn 8pm start time 

This is what I got from the last third. 

Mary is Mary and alt Bobby loves her.

Alt angels are the worst. Alt Zachariah is dead.

Michael needs Mary for some reason.  My guess as an under cover vessel or to breed his Dean with a resurrected John.

Alt angels are stupid.  

Jack has a mission and is no longer just a plot device.

Finally repercussions for being soulless for Donatello.  Gripe: Both Dean and Sam know full well being soulless is a serious condition that results in nothing good.  It was a major plot point in season's 6 and 11.  Plus: I liked the fact that not having a soul  caused the power of the denon tablet to corrupt him.
Dean is not willing to commit huma

n sacrifice to get what he wants.  The new and improved Sam is on the same page.

Sam is a basket case of sad feels.   I think he is headed for a bad fate... like death maybe or quitting hunting and checking out.

Cas is perfectly willing to commit human sacrifice to get what he wants.  The soldier comment was chilling.  Per this , his malicious  face when he verbally tortured Lucifer and the weird facial expressions I have a theory.  The primordial oily Goo god  isn't riding shot-gun.  Instead he tweaked Cas before he sent him to Earth.  Things could get dark and scary as far as Cas  goes.  The other thing I noticed is that Cas followed Dean's admonition to not kill Dante but he made him brain dead on purpose.  Cas is now a rogue element on TFW.  This is about as far away from Profound Bond Cas as we can get. Alternate theory:  Fetus Jack inadvertently changed Cas programming when he worked tbrough him last season and protecting Jack has become a primary purpose for Jack.  Tbis theory dies not explain the peculiar eye expressions or the new perverse streak of enjoying sticking it to Lucifer.

Dean is going to say yes to Michael in a quid pro quo deal so They can get the ingredients to save Mary.  

Yes Cas may know about Gabriel because Asmodeus likes to grandstand with employees and possibly bragged to Donatello.
Yes Letch's  love of Mary may lead him to leak this Intel to the Winchester' s.

Both of these latter scenarios requires stealing the grace.  A Dean-Michael quid pro quo agreement will involve grace freely given in exchange for release from the cage and a permanent vessel.  Dean would totally do this to save Mary.

Tell me what I missed in the first two thirds.  Important bullet  facts only.

Catrox... do you owe me a high five for spec that there would be a rift opening spell. 

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Didn't Kevin translate the whole damn angel table in s8???? Why is this even a thing.

Nope.  Kevin translated the entire Leviathan tablet in one sitting, basically.  And, then he was translating the demon tablet for Crowley, but understandably purposely going slow.  Then had trouble with it when he only had half.  But, for whatever reason, that angel tablet gave him fits in Season 9.  He had to translate part of it into a different language and then try to translate that (which doesn't make much sense to me).  Maybe the angel tablet is just trickier.  Who knows?

[catrox14]

16 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

AU Bobby isn't much fun. I know why he isn't, but I was bored by his scenes.

I almost think he was brought back to give Mary false vindication. Otherwise, he hasn't done much.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

My guess as an under cover vessel or to breed his Dean with a resurrected John.

I misread that and thought you said to "breed with Dean" and I was like, ewww.  Hope the show wouldn't go there.  I think she's a bit old to breed, but then again, I see her as the actress's age.  Not the character's.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Catrox... do you owe me a high five for spec that there would be a rift opening spell. 

LOL I already gave you that one in the spoiler thread. Do you need it again? Okay, high five. LOL

[Pondlass1]

Something's up with Castiel.  Maybe it will just be nothing but I hope it's something. He's been blah for too long. 

Entertaining episode. Good pacing.  I still  find Sam Smith's acting sort of distant and removed from the situation.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Nope.  Kevin translated the entire Leviathan tablet in one sitting, basically.  And, then he was translating the demon tablet for Crowley, but understandably purposely going slow.  Then had trouble with it when he only had half.  But, for whatever reason, that angel tablet gave him fits in Season 9.  He had to translate part of it into a different language and then try to translate that (which doesn't make much sense to me).  Maybe the angel tablet is just trickier.  Who knows?

I'm gonna have to research this. I thought he was superexcited in s8 to have translated it in s8. Well anyway this just reminds me of an even bigger question.

Cas broke the angel tablet in s9 when he found it in Metatron's typewriter in 9.23.  WHY IS THERE ANOTHER ANGEL TABLET? I am confused.

And why did Sam have it at all? Isn't there supposed to be One Leviathan Tablet, One Demon Tablet, and One Angel Tablet??

Help?

Edited March 2, 2018 by catrox14

[Myrelle]

If this wasn't Dabb's Superantural I'd say that this  one made me feel as if we could be heading towards Dean/Michael by the end of this season. Jack stating that he was going to kill Michael and Cas stating that he would do whatever he had to no matter what and their zeroing in on Dean when he said that and Dean feeling like if he died from from bacon then that would be a good way to go out for him, all pointed to that coming down the pipe, IMO.

But it IS still Dabb's Supernatural, so I refuse to be sucked in by any of this.

It's still week by week for me and this season still feels like the Jack and Sometimes Lucifer Show much more than it feels like Supernatural to me.

I loved the fight with the two brothers, but that was it for this one AFAIC. The AU stuff was just lacking all around, IMO. And the Cas stuff felt like a lesson coming down the tubes for that character-which I kind of hope that it will be, in all truth. He just seemed too sure of himself and that what he did there with Donatello was A-OK for it to not come back and bite him in the ass in some way.

[Castiels Cat]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I really liked this episode for the most part.

Didn't appreciate the show trying to make Mary's deal be okay just because the Apocalypse happened in the other world cause she didn't. NOPE. Doesn't work that way. Mary was still shitty to Dean and Sam in s12. No amount of AW Bobby given his seal of approval changes what Mary did.

Zachariah was pointless. Bobby was kind of annoying.

Didn't Kevin translate the whole damn angel table in s8???? Why is this even a thing.

I don't feel bad for Donatello that much. 

Loved Dean getting to lop off heads again. That was fun.

I'm interested to see where it goes.

This is was a great episode for Cas to show his moxie. I mostly can't figure out why Dean and Sam wouldn't just kill and then salt and burn Donatello. Leaving a brain dead soulless body at the hospital seems like it's ripe for demon/Asmodeus pickings.  Boys, you know better.

It is a wonderful life Apocalypse.  The point is that Dean and Sam's existence make our world better.  Without them life would literally be angelic he'll on earth.  Does tbis mean that Cas our Clarence per Meg, will get new wings... or Jack.

I disagree that Mary was terrible.  She reacted pretty well I think to being wretched from her heaven of carrying for lil Dean and baby Sam to confront two adult son's whose lives were forever altered by her action.

As for the deal, season 5 plotlines indicate Mary's love for John and vice versa was an angelic love spell by a Cupid and authorized by Michael.  She was under a powerful love spell.  I don't fault her for that deal.  In fact the recent love spell episode may have been thrown in to emphasize that people are compelled to act by the love spell even to assault their brother or murder a friend.

As little as I saw I agree that AU Bobby was meh.

Kevin was focused on how to close the gates of hell and that took perfect SAT Kevin ages.  He had to look to see if Sam would die so my guess is that he did not translate it all yet and died before he could.

Ack. I missed the head  lopping scene  ergo i missed an entire subplot.  Please fill me in.

Cas probably made sure Donatello' s brain can tell no secrets.  NuCas is that kind of guy.

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

A few nitpicks, but probably my favourite episode of the season.

#TeamFreeWill for the win!

The boys didn't like what Cas did, but I believe they are on board. ETA: gonna put a pre-emptive response in here to the inevitable 'Dean was mean to Cas' brigade. Cas did the right thing, but a pretty harsh and un-Cas-like thing, so yeah, it'll take a minute for them to come around, but they are already accepting it. It's no different than how both Sam and Cas have chastised Dean when he's gone OTT as (a necessary) means to an end.

  Reveal hidden contents

We already know they are looking for the items next week, so they are on board.

Kickass episode.

I am getting "If bacon's what kills me,then I win." on a t-shirt.

I am pretty sure that tee is already on Amazon.

Cas' behavior is a military mindset.  So yeah in a sense it majes sense for strategy but it is not a humane response.  I think it is chilling when put in an episode with a militaristic angels turning on humans subplot.  He also did it to save Jack... And Mary, not because the world was at risk from evil Donatello.

Usually they wait until guilty to shoot humans. I missed the beginning so I am assuming Donatello didn't kill anyone.

In season 6 Cas removed Sam's wall to distract Dean and Sam.  That was a horrible move that he rationalized by saying that it was temporary and he would fix Sam when he saved the world.

This is worse. When paired with the weird facial ticks and the fact he enjoyed verbally torturing Lucifer too much... My new theory is that the primordial oily goo God tweaked his programming before releasing him.

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Ack. I missed the head  lopping scene  ergo i missed an entire subplot.  Please fill me in.

It was during the fight between Gog and Magog (hello Apocalypse 2.0) and Dean/Cas. Dean got to chop one of their heads off and save Cas from being impaled.

It was a good fight scene IMO

2 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

This is worse. When paired with the weird facial ticks and the fact he enjoyed verbally torturing Lucifer too much... My new theory is that the primordial oily goo God tweaked his programming before releasing him.

Why shouldn't Cas enjoy torturing Lucifer? Holy crap. Lucifer killed him. Lucifer ordered humans be tortured into demons. Seems pretty great to me. I"m all for it and it doesn't make Cas a jerk. It's freaking LUCIFER

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I liked this episode.  I think Dean is going to the the "most holy man" they need blood from.  

I'm wondering about Cas. He's weird.  Never been a particular fan, but never hated him before.  May change my tune.

That Gog, Magog scene was awesome.  Glad Donatello is gone, assuming he is.

And, most importantly:  I LOVE BOBBY!!!!!!!!!!

Me too. Dean will accidentally discover he is the holy man much like he discovered he was the righteous man.  Of course they disappointed me in season 7.  When they needed a righteous bone or what ever they called to kill dick I was sure he would lop off his arm which Cas would heal.  He gated Dick that much.

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

It was during the fight between Gog and Magog (hello Apocalypse 2.0) and Dean/Cas. Dean got to chop one of their heads off and save Cas from being impaled.

It was a good fight scene IMO

Why shouldn't Cas enjoy torturing Lucifer? Holy crap. Lucifer killed him. Lucifer ordered humans be tortured into demons. Seems pretty great to me. I"m all for it and it doesn't make Cas a jerk. It's freaking LUCIFER

Who are Gog and Magog. What were Dean and Cas doing.

Cas has never enjoyed inflicting pain on others.  The close-ups tell us he enjoyed it.  That is new. As are the weird faces.  He is different is visible ways since his resurrection. Why.

[Castiels Cat]

23 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

If this wasn't Dabb's Superantural I'd say that this  one made me feel as if we could be heading towards Dean/Michael by the end of this season. Jack stating that he was going to kill Michael and Cas stating that he would do whatever he had to no matter what and their zeroing in on Dean when he said that and Dean feeling like if he died from from bacon then that would be a good way to go out for him, all pointed to that coming down the pipe, IMO.

But it IS still Dabb's Supernatural, so I refuse to be sucked in by any of this.

It's still week by week for me and this season still feels like the Jack and Sometimes Lucifer Show much more than it feels like Supernatural to me.

I loved the fight with the two brothers, but that was it for this one AFAIC. The AU stuff was just lacking all around, IMO. And the Cas stuff felt like a lesson coming down the tubes for that character-which I kind of hope that it will be, in all truth. He just seemed too sure of himself and that what he did there with Donatello was A-OK for it to not come back and bite him in the ass in some way.

Finally a kindred spirit!

I have felt we were heading towards Dean!Michael since 12:1. A gut reaction more or less to my belief that the reboot was heading towards a new Apocalypse literally.  The only reason to do that is to do change something important ergo Dean!Michael.  Then the hints started pilng up and low and behold there is an Apocalypse over there.  By the end of season 12 I felt that Dean's need to save Mary would drive his decision to say yes to Michael.

They just set Dean up to say yes to Michael to save Mary perfectly.  It is Dean's deal 2.0.

30 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

If this wasn't Dabb's Superantural I'd say that this  one made me feel as if we could be heading towards Dean/Michael by the end of this season. Jack stating that he was going to kill Michael and Cas stating that he would do whatever he had to no matter what and their zeroing in on Dean when he said that and Dean feeling like if he died from from bacon then that would be a good way to go out for him, all pointed to that coming down the pipe, IMO.

But it IS still Dabb's Supernatural, so I refuse to be sucked in by any of this.

It's still week by week for me and this season still feels like the Jack and Sometimes Lucifer Show much more than it feels like Supernatural to me.

I loved the fight with the two brothers, but that was it for this one AFAIC. The AU stuff was just lacking all around, IMO. And the Cas stuff felt like a lesson coming down the tubes for that character-which I kind of hope that it will be, in all truth. He just seemed too sure of himself and that what he did there with Donatello was A-OK for it to not come back and bite him in the ass in some way.

I missed most of it so I missed the brothers fight... Why.  

And I missed the bacon line 

I hate the 8pm timeslot.

[SueB]

36 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm gonna have to research this. I thought he was superexcited in s8 to have translated it in s8. Well anyway this just reminds me of an even bigger question.

Cas broke the angel tablet in s9 when he found it in Metatron's typewriter in 9.23.  WHY IS THERE ANOTHER ANGEL TABLET? I am confused.

And why did Sam have it at all? Isn't there supposed to be One Leviathan Tablet, One Demon Tablet, and One Angel Tablet??

Help?

 

Donatello is reading the Demon tablet.  The Angel Tablet is dust.   

Tablet Chain of Custody:

1) The Demon, Angel, and Leviathan tablets were all at the Bunker after the end of S8.

2) We see Gadreel pack all three into a bag and hand them to Meratron. 

3) We have not seen the Leviathan tablet since that time. 

4) The Angel tablet was inside the typewriter, powering Metatron’s mojo until Cas smashed the tablet to stop Metatron. 

5) When they got Metatron out of Heaven in S9, it was to determine if he really knew how to remove the MoC.  He did not but he offered to help find Cas’ left-over bit of grace.  

6) At the library where a book held Cas’ grace, Metatron ALSO had a book that had the demon tablet. Metatron did some spell, powered by the Demon tablet to take out Cas but Cas ate his own Grace.  Exit stage right for Metatron and the demon tablet. 

7) When Cas went looking for Metatron in S11, he found human Metatron had kept the tablet hid under his mattress.  Cas put Metatron in traction and brought the Demon tablet back to the bunker. 

8) The boys theorized that the spell for opening a rift might also be on the Demon tablet (in our world)  if it was on the AU Angel tablet that AU Kevin Tran read to create the spell for AU Michael.  

9) So, Donatello was translating the Demon tablet. Original recipe. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by SueB

[Castiels Cat]

32 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm gonna have to research this. I thought he was superexcited in s8 to have translated it in s8. Well anyway this just reminds me of an even bigger question.

Cas broke the angel tablet in s9 when he found it in Metatron's typewriter in 9.23.  WHY IS THERE ANOTHER ANGEL TABLET? I am confused.

And why did Sam have it at all? Isn't there supposed to be One Leviathan Tablet, One Demon Tablet, and One Angel Tablet??

Help?

AU angel tablet 

A prophet could fix the angel tablet per the Leviathan tablet which the Winchesters saw Kevin do.

Of course the angels have our tablet and perhaps cas lacks the clout.  Lucifer may get it fixed via brain dead Donatello if he decides to take the fight to Lucifer or save Jack.

Just now, SueB said:

Donatello is reading the Demon tablet.  The Angel Tablet is dust.   

Tablet Chain of Custody:

1) The Demon, Angel, and Leviathan tablets were all at the Bunker after the end of S8.

2) We see Gadreel pack all three into a bag and hand them to Meratron. 

3) We have not seen the Leviathan tablet since that time. 

4) The Angel tablet was inside the typewriter, powering Metatron’s mojo until Cas smashed the tablet to stop Metatron. 

5) When they got Metatron out of Heaven in S9, it was to determine if he really knew how to remove the MoC.  He did not but he offered to help find Cas’ left-over but of grace.  

6) At the library where a book held Cas’ grace, Metatron ALSO had a book that had the demon tablet. Metatron did some spell, powered by the Demon tablet to take out Cas but Cas ate his own Grace.  Exit stage right for Metatron and the demon tablet. 

7) When Cas went looking for Metatron in S11, he found human Metatron had kept the tablet hid under his mattress.  Cas put Metatron in traction and brought the Demon tablet back to the bunker. 

8) The boys theorized that the spell for opening a rift might also be on the Demon tablet (in our world)  if it was on the AU Angel tablet that AU Kevin Tran read to create the spell for AU Michael.  

9) So, Donatello was translating the Demon tablet. Original recipe. 

Yes with more detail than I  could bother to write. Good job.

I would add that tablets apparently exist in at keast two worlds.  Kevin was able to fix the keviathan tablet by touching it.  It is possible prophets have the power to fix all tablets.

[Castiels Cat]

45 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I misread that and thought you said to "breed with Dean" and I was like, ewww.  Hope the show wouldn't go there.  I think she's a bit old to breed, but then again, I see her as the actress's age.  Not the character's.

Gross.  

Eh... I had regular periods until my uterus was axed at 53 so i was still capable in my fifties.

A test tube situation would work.   Those AU angels suck.

Someone else said they needed Mary to force Jack to help them?... open a rift I guess? I missed two thirds of the episode.  The last third was riveting.

Who, what, where Gog and Magog.  They sound like  Bad Place denizens...

Can anyone shorthand this subplot 

[SueB]

Quick thought:

Wow, that was jam-packed.  

- I love that Mary immediately knew Michael would hurt her to get to Jack. And Jack’s cinnamon roll sweetness was so very evident this episode.  Mary has him under her wing.  I’m glad. 

- Michael is a dick of epic proportions.   Can’t find anything redeeming there. 

- I miss Zachariah’s pettiness.  He was more ‘Stunt Angel #12’ than Zachariah.  

- I agree with others, AU Bobby has a thing for Mary.  

- Sam crumbled REALLY QUICKLY when the spell was gone. Dean is worried. 

- And now Cas is acting shady.  Dick Cas of S4 would purge Donatello’s brain.  But Dean did a ‘check in’ on Cas before they left and Cas seems genuinely motivated to not FAIL Jack.  I think knowing where he’s going to end up (back in the Empty some day) may have Cas tapping into a ‘No F*cks To Give’ attitude.  He’s there to save Jack and protect the Winchester’s. I think Cas sees no point to his own existence.  That’s some serious existential crisis right there.  So, I think Cas is Cas but deeply affected by experiencing the Empty.  

-Gog and Magog were pretty funny. I feel like we kind of wasted them a bit.  They are well-known enough that they could have had their own episode IMO.  But I LOVE that they were made out of sand.  And Cas’ offhand, I ‘didn’t think any were left after the flood’ (as in Noah and the Ark).  Lots off good life there.  Still, I liked the comic relief in ancient Canaanite. ‘they’re equally pretty.’  Damn right they are. 

- I’m not thrilled with Donatello’s fate.  I’m glad the boys were against it. And I loved how Meredith worked in about 15 different canon references in one episode. Including the Death soul deal vs Amara eating the soul. 

 

This episode needs a couple of rewatches to get all to get all the nuances for me. 

[catrox14]

27 minutes ago, SueB said:

9) So, Donatello was translating the Demon tablet. Original recipe. 

Thanks. But I thought Kevin also translated the entirety of the demon tablet as well?

[catrox14]

T

17 minutes ago, SueB said:

nd now Cas is acting shady.  Dick Cas of S4 would purge Donatello’s brain.  But Dean did a ‘check in’ on Cas before they left and Cas seems genuinely motivated to not FAIL Jack.  I think knowing where he’s going to end up (back in the Empty some day) may have Cas tapping into a ‘No F*cks To Give’ attitude.  He’s there to save Jack and protect the Winchester’s. I think Cas sees no point to his own existence.  That’s some serious existential crisis right there.  So, I think Cas is Cas but deeply affected by experiencing the Empty.  

I totally disagree that he's being shady or dick Cas (who wasn't really that much of a dick in the end since he sided with the boys...just sayin')

Cas was a warrior in s4. He's back to warrior mode for them.  I think Cas was changed by the Empty in some way but I am absolutely not gonna fault him at all for what he did. He got what was needed. Sure the whole notion of opening the rift is ill begotten and will have dire consequences but that's on all of TFW. 

I was shocked that Cas did it but at the same time I cheered. Just don't have a problem with it here TBH.

[Castiels Cat]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Thanks. But I thought Kevin also translated the entirety of the demon tablet as well?

I do not think he did.  In the 8 finale Dean called him to find out if Naomi was telling the truth and Kevin had to look it up. Kevin had trouble with ithe demon tablet unlike the Leviathan tablet and it became harder to translate when he had only half a tablet.  In season 8 he was focused on the spell to close the gates of hell and ways to escape from Crowley.

In season 9 reading the demon tablet wasn't a priority since fallen angels were the monster du jour.

[Castiels Cat]

29 minutes ago, SueB said:

Quick thought:

Wow, that was jam-packed.  

- I love that Mary immediately knew Michael would hurt her to get to Jack. And Jack’s cinnamon roll sweetness was so very evident this episode.  Mary has him under her wing.  I’m glad. 

- Michael is a dick of epic proportions.   Can’t find anything redeeming there. 

- I miss Zachariah’s pettiness.  He was more ‘Stunt Angel #12’ than Zachariah.  

- I agree with others, AU Bobby has a thing for Mary.  

- Sam crumbled REALLY QUICKLY when the spell was gone. Dean is worried. 

- And now Cas is acting shady.  Dick Cas of S4 would purge Donatello’s brain.  But Dean did a ‘check in’ on Cas before they left and Cas seems genuinely motivated to not FAIL Jack.  I think knowing where he’s going to end up (back in the Empty some day) may have Cas tapping into a ‘No F*cks To Give’ attitude.  He’s there to save Jack and protect the Winchester’s. I think Cas sees no point to his own existence.  That’s some serious existential crisis right there.  So, I think Cas is Cas but deeply affected by experiencing the Empty.  

-Gog and Magog were pretty funny. I feel like we kind of wasted them a bit.  They are well-known enough that they could have had their own episode IMO.  But I LOVE that they were made out of sand.  And Cas’ offhand, I ‘didn’t think any were left after the flood’ (as in Noah and the Ark).  Lots off good life there.  Still, I liked the comic relief in ancient Canaanite. ‘they’re equally pretty.’  Damn right they are. 

- I’m not thrilled with Donatello’s fate.  I’m glad the boys were against it. And I loved how Meredith worked in about 15 different canon references in one episode. Including the Death soul deal vs Amara eating the soul. 

 

This episode needs a couple of rewatches to get all to get all the nuances for me. 

I missed most of the episode and am totally clueless about Gog and mcGog.  Who rhe hell are they.  They sound rather Rosencrantz and Guldenstein(sp). 

They knew Cas. Are they angels that were at Gomorrah? Please explain.

From the last third of the episode whichbi saw, I agree with everything you say.  Regarding Cas I am not sure it is an existential crisis.  They are emphasizing his facial expressions which are unusual for Gas.  I think The primordial oily goo God made some adjustments before sending him along.  I think Jack may have programmed a prime directive in Car as a fetus to protect him as well.

[SueB]

22 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Thanks. But I thought Kevin also translated the entirety of the demon tablet as well?

Just the trials.  

[Castiels Cat]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

The CW was giving me fits tonight.  It was totally pixelated, and kept stopping and starting, cutting out so much dialogue.  I almost turned the show off, but managed to stick with it.  I was actually relieved when it was over, but not because I didn't enjoy the parts I did catch.

I have to say that I was actually happy to see Mary tonight.  I was looking forward to seeing her with her sons after the whole BMOL fiasco, so I hope we get that opportunity.  I love Bobby, so I'm always glad to see him.  And I had missed Jack, so I enjoyed their scenes together.  Watching Jack zap Zachariah was very satisfying.

I missed a lot of the dialogue during the scenes with Donatello, so I'm not sure whether they found out that he'd been working with Colonel Sanders.  Man, this version of Cas isn't taking any shit from anyone.  I just hope that they don't have him cross the line into making bad decisions like he did in the past when he thought he was doing the right thing.  Let him truly have learned from his mistakes.   I like smart, sassy Cas.

I definitely need to watch the episode again tomorrow so I can catch what I missed.   

Cas mined Donatello's mind for information so yes they now know.

[ahrtee]

I was going back and forth between TVs in different rooms (don't ask!) so I might have missed some things.  First thoughts (in no particular order):
1.  Mary certainly didn't look "rode hard and put away wet," as if she'd been tortured for the past 6 months (?)  Even her clothes weren't dirty, and she seemed pretty calm and unstressed when Jack showed up.  Even if Michael was "saving" her to make a deal, the glimpses we had of her before this showed her being tortured.  I was a little suspicious that it wasn't really her with Jack.

2.  Bobby definitely has a thing for Mary.  I wasn't really thrilled at her being absolved of making the deal.  I wonder if Sam will buy it?

3. Does the AU have *everything* that this world does (ie, same angels, all the tablets...)?  Does that mean there's an AU Chuck there too, or did the One Chuck create all AUs with duplicates of everything?  (And why?)  

4. I felt all characterizations were a little off--not enough to point at, just enough to make me scratch my head.  I don't know if it was deliberate or just bad writing. 

5. I thought Gog and Magog were an interesting idea turned silly: comic relief that was not only out of place but played way OTT for the seriousness of the situation.  I'm also a little tired of being hit over the head with sibling rivalry anchors (again.)  Having said that, I did like the "they're both pretty" line.  I may be wrong, but there sounded like a lot of Hebrew in their Canaanite.  Or maybe it was Aramaic?

My main takeaway:

6.  It felt like Mary and Jack were being set up to stay in the AU.  Both mentioned how they felt a calling (or something similar)...that they had important work they could do there.  Maybe if they (in whatever form) wipe out Michael and the bad angels, Jack (with or without Mary/Bobby) might want to stay in AU to create a brave new world (the "perfect world" that Cas saw in his vision.)   And Jack can make his own angels so he can have a complete do-over of our world.  

Or....they can kill Bobby and/or Mary just for angst.  *shrugs*  

 

On a separate note, did the promo for next week seem a little off to anyone else?  The clips and music made it seem to me like it was a light(er), more humorous type ep, which doesn't seem to fit the gravity of the situation they're in.  Of course, I thought the music in Scorpion and Frog was off too, so maybe it's just that again.  

[Castiels Cat]

1 minute ago, SueB said:

Just the trials.  

Yes. He read the parts about closing the gates of hell.

At the beginning of the season he and read about demon warding and demon killing which he used to protect himself after running away from Crowley before the Winchesters found him.

[SueB]

8 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

I missed most of the episode and am totally clueless about Gog and mcGog.  Who rhe hell are they.  They sound rather Rosencrantz and Guldenstein(sp). 

They knew Cas. Are they angels that were at Gomorrah? Please explain.

From the last third of the episode whichbi saw, I agree with everything you say.  Regarding Cas I am not sure it is an existential crisis.  They are emphasizing his facial expressions which are unusual for Gas.  I think The primordial oily goo God made some adjustments before sending him along.  I think Jack may have programmed a prime directive in Car as a fetus to protect him as well.

Per lying Donatello, they needed the hearts of two ancient brothers (Gog and Magog) who were either humans or lands in Biblical times.  When Cas freed them from the vortex of space and time they were in, they showed up in loin cloths, about 9 ft tall, and planning to fight anyone who freed them.  They argued about one interrupting the other and thought both Dean and Cas were pretty.  Dean eventually killed them with their own weapons but there were no hearts.  They were made of sand.  

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

es. He read the parts about closing the gates of hell.

At the beginning of the season he and read about demon warding and demon killing which he used to protect himself after running away from Crowley before the Winchesters found him.

That part I know about. I thought he had translated the rest of it, but I was probably confusing it with the Leviathan tablet. 

1 minute ago, SueB said:

Per lying Donatello, they needed the hearts of two ancient brothers (Gog and Magog) who were either humans or lands in Biblical times.  When Cas freed them from the vortex of space and time they were in, they showed up in loin cloths, about 9 ft tall, and planning to fight anyone who freed them.  They argued about one interrupting the other and thought both Dean and Cas were pretty.  Dean eventually killed them with their own weapons but there were no hearts.  They were made of sand.  

Those just made me miss Aaron and his Golem :(. Seems like they might come in handy

[Castiels Cat]

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

I was going back and forth between TVs in different rooms (don't ask!) so I might have missed some things.  First thoughts (in no particular order):
1.  Mary certainly didn't look "rode hard and put away wet," as if she'd been tortured for the past 6 months (?)  Even her clothes weren't dirty, and she seemed pretty calm and unstressed when Jack showed up.  Even if Michael was "saving" her to make a deal, the glimpses we had of her before this showed her being tortured.  I was a little suspicious that it wasn't really her with Jack.

2.  Bobby definitely has a thing for Mary.  I wasn't really thrilled at her being absolved of making the deal.  I wonder if Sam will buy it?

3. Does the AU have *everything* that this world does (ie, same angels, all the tablets...)?  Does that mean there's an AU Chuck there too, or did the One Chuck create all AUs with duplicates of everything?  (And why?)  

4. I felt all characterizations were a little off--not enough to point at, just enough to make me scratch my head.  I don't know if it was deliberate or just bad writing. 

5. I thought Gog and Magog were an interesting idea turned silly: comic relief that was not only out of place but played way OTT for the seriousness of the situation.  I'm also a little tired of being hit over the head with sibling rivalry anchors (again.)  Having said that, I did like the "they're both pretty" line.  I may be wrong, but there sounded like a lot of Hebrew in their Canaanite.  Or maybe it was Aramaic?

My main takeaway:

6.  It felt like Mary and Jack were being set up to stay in the AU.  Both mentioned how they felt a calling (or something similar)...that they had important work they could do there.  Maybe if they (in whatever form) wipe out Michael and the bad angels, Jack (with or without Mary/Bobby) might want to stay in AU to create a brave new world (the "perfect world" that Cas saw in his vision.)   And Jack can make his own angels so he can have a complete do-over of our world.  

Or....they can kill Bobby and/or Mary just for angst.  *shrugs*  

 

On a separate note, did the promo for next week seem a little off to anyone else?  The clips and music made it seem to me like it was a light(er), more humorous type ep, which doesn't seem to fit the gravity of the situation they're in.  Of course, I thought the music in Scorpion and Frog was off too, so maybe it's just that again.  

I have been thinking that there will be something about Mary. She looked off when Jack finds her and the Plum Sistets plot in Various and Sundry was a mirror to the Winchesters in regards to saving mommy.  Their mommy came back horribly wrong.

At first I thought Michael might be using her as a vessel (a theme this season is characters wearing the faces of others) but apparently spoilers show him in a future episode.  Now i think she coukd be soulless.  Angels can use human souls for power-ups... or perhaps there is a spell using human souls ...

Jack staying there and making that place his perfect world works for me.  I am happy he is now a man of action rather than a plot device.

I missed 2/3 of the episode but from folks discussion Gog and McGog sound like Rosencrantz and Guildenstein types (Hamlet).

[Castiels Cat]

7 minutes ago, SueB said:

Per lying Donatello, they needed the hearts of two ancient brothers (Gog and Magog) who were either humans or lands in Biblical times.  When Cas freed them from the vortex of space and time they were in, they showed up in loin cloths, about 9 ft tall, and planning to fight anyone who freed them.  They argued about one interrupting the other and thought both Dean and Cas were pretty.  Dean eventually killed them with their own weapons but there were no hearts.  They were made of sand.  

So Donatello thought he gave TFW impossible busy work.

Freeing them from the vortex of space and time seems above Cas' paygrade. Can he teleport now.

Was everyone okay with effectively committing human sacrifice.

In biblical lore... My recollection of biblical lore... nephilim were giants... So weird.  

The pretty line kind of reminds me of Deliverance ... He has a purty mouth... In deliverance it has homoerotic subtext to the max.

Did they explain why they were made of sand. Were they from Gomorrah and only partially turned to sand.  Wasn't that a thing.

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

LOL I already gave you that one in the spoiler thread. Do you need it again? Okay, high five. LOL

I haven't been over there yet.  One is sufficient.  

Close- up on Dean's face at the information that they need the grace of an archangel... My other spec was that Dean would offer Michael a deal to rescue Mary and Dean!Michael would give the grace.  That close-up should  earn my spec some gesture of your choosing.

I realize that I am a Deangirl with huge Dean goggles who is glass half full person  and is not bitter about Dean aborted storylines because I tend to think big picture.

There was no chance in hell Dean would actually go through with being a vessel in season 5.  And given that Chuck told Dean that Dean going to Stull was not in God's written word and Dean did it as a mere human always made me think that Dean's choices drove the end of the Apocalypse Not storyline ergo Dean was pivotal and arguably the deciding factor that weakened Lucifer and strengthened Sam.  So happy Deangirl.

The trials were busy work to illustrate pivotal Winchester character traits and their tragic flaws. Was I momentarily pissed... yep.  But in r he big picture the writing choices made sense.

Demonic Dean was the realization of Sam's worst fear.  He was fun while he lasted but he was never here to stay.  Neither was MoC Dean sadly.

And Dean is the only character Chuck and Amara listen to. The writing hasn't shafted him.

We are so getting Dean!Michael.  And if Jack is taking out AU!Michael ... i think we are getting our old Apocalypse back too.  Remember Lucifer's line about his brother in any universe is unrelenting once he gets an idea in his head.  

[Castiels Cat]

2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Something's up with Castiel.  Maybe it will just be nothing but I hope it's something. He's been blah for too long. 

Entertaining episode. Good pacing.  I still  find Sam Smith's acting sort of distant and removed from the situation.

Something is definitely different. I agree.  

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

I do not think he did.  In the 8 finale Dean called him to find out if Naomi was telling the truth and Kevin had to look it up. Kevin had trouble with ithe demon tablet unlike the Leviathan tablet and it became harder to translate when he had only half a tablet.  In season 8 he was focused on the spell to close the gates of hell and ways to escape from Crowley.

In season 9 reading the demon tablet wasn't a priority since fallen angels were the monster du jour.

Kevin was looking up the ingredients to close Heaven for Dean which turned out to be Metatrons spell to expel the angels.  He was looking at the angel tablet which he had only seen for the first time a few hours prior.

[catrox14]

Assuming it's actual!Cas I'm fine with his choices here. At this point, I see no real downside to him taking the spell from Donatello. TFW 2.0 shouldn't have opened any rifts in the first place but since that ship has sailed and he believes he can kill both Lucifer and Michael, then he did the right thing.

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

So Donatello thought he gave TFW impossible busy work.

Nah, he sent them to be murdered by Gog and Magog. He badly underestimated Dean and Cas' ability to survive.

[Castiels Cat]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Assuming it's actual!Cas I'm fine with his choices here. At this point, I see no real downside to him taking the spell from Donatello. TFW 2.0 shouldn't have opened any rifts in the first place but since that ship has sailed and he believes he can kill both Lucifer and Michael, then he did the right thing.

Nah, he sent them to be murdered by Gog and Magog. He badly underestimated Dean and Cas' ability to survive.

Cas believes he can kill both Lucifer and Michael?!!! What. How.

I missed most of the episode.

Cas is operating way above his pay grade.

More fuel for the Dean!Michael versus Lucifer Apocalypse over here...
According to Wiki one biblical  source equates the Messiah with the slaying of Gog and Magog .
# Dean is the Messiah.
Other sources call them apocalyptic figures and precursors to the actual Apocalypse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog

Oh if Jack's mission is to AU-Michael I assume that Jack will kill AU Michael unless Mary is AU Michael and uses a spell to defeat him or  has his version of Nephilim Gog and Magog and uses their weapons to kill Jack.

Gog and  Magog must be nephilim because biblical texts (Ezekiel maybe) describe nephilim as giants and Cash I thought that the flood killed them all is another reference because God sent the flood specifically to kill all nephilim.  So in Supernatural Gog and Magog are Nephilim and their weapons might kill Jack because I understand that only their weapons coukd kill them, Got and Magog... ie. nephilim swords are a thing now.

12 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Kevin was looking up the ingredients to close Heaven for Dean which turned out to be Metatrons spell to expel the angels.  He was looking at the angel tablet which he had only seen for the first time a few hours prior.

Dean also asked him if Naomi was right about Sam dying if the gates were closed and Kevin had to look that up too...

It has been a while... could be wrong 

[Commando Cody]

This episode was weird. They were talking about finding these two guys so they could cut their hearts out. Nobody even paused for a second to think about that one. 

Then something happened at the end that I no longer remember, but it was contrary to the above sentence, because they seemed suddenly concerned with killing something. I watched the episode once and deleted it. 

I watched a season four episode this morning. Back when Cas was a dick angel.  He was serious and powerful. I miss that Castiel. Now we are starting to see a little bit of that again. The old Cas did not waste time. 

I found the acting and the dialogue between Mary and Bobby a little stilted. 

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, Myrelle said:

If this wasn't Dabb's Superantural I'd say that this  one made me feel as if we could be heading towards Dean/Michael by the end of this season. Jack stating that he was going to kill Michael and Cas stating that he would do whatever he had to no matter what and their zeroing in on Dean when he said that and Dean feeling like if he died from from bacon then that would be a good way to go out for him, all pointed to that coming down the pipe, IMO.

But it IS still Dabb's Supernatural, so I refuse to be sucked in by any of this.

It's still week by week for me and this season still feels like the Jack and Sometimes Lucifer Show much more than it feels like Supernatural to me.

I loved the fight with the two brothers, but that was it for this one AFAIC. The AU stuff was just lacking all around, IMO. And the Cas stuff felt like a lesson coming down the tubes for that character-which I kind of hope that it will be, in all truth. He just seemed too sure of himself and that what he did there with Donatello was A-OK for it to not come back and bite him in the ass in some way.

SINGER and Dabb's Supernatural season 12 is better than season 11. I thought their character arcs were decent as was the subtle hints and set-up for the Apocalypse 2 0.  I liked the Mary storyline, how refreshing for a female character to put her own needs first...  and the Mary-Dean storyline.  The individual episodes were a mess and the BMOL storyline  exhibited too much LOL worldbuilding to work.

This season has Colonel Foghorn Leghorn Sanders who really only works as a one off character quickly dispatched.  You cannot base an interesting character on a bad southern accent. And Donatello is a hot mess.and a badly written character.  Too bad because that actor can deliver; ie. Angel..

At this point the Apocalypse  Dean!Michael hints are piling up bigly.

[Castiels Cat]

8 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

This episode was weird. They were talking about finding these two guys so they could cut their hearts out. Nobody even paused for a second to think about that one. 

Then something happened at the end that I no longer remember, but it was contrary to the above sentence, because they seemed suddenly concerned with killing something. I watched the episode once and deleted it. 

I watched a season four episode this morning. Back when Cas was a dick angel.  He was serious and powerful. I miss that Castiel. Now we are starting to see a little bit of that again. The old Cas did not waste time. 

I found the acting and the dialogue between Mary and Bobby a little stilted. 

I missed the first 2/3 but when somebody explained who Got and Magog were I was agog (lol) because that is human sacrifice.  A human character saying yes to human sacrifice is dark.  

At the end of the episode the Winchesters were against killing Donatello because there were other ways to solve the problem. 

They were totally fine with human sacrifice to save Mary, like the Plum Sisters, if that was the only way to get what they needed.  Pretty damn dark and then Cas went darker.

It has been a while however my recollection of season 4 Cas was that he was magnificent, powerful, serious and unemotional.  This Cas is different.

29 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Assuming it's actual!Cas I'm fine with his choices here. At this point, I see no real downside to him taking the spell from Donatello. TFW 2.0 shouldn't have opened any rifts in the first place but since that ship has sailed and he believes he can kill both Lucifer and Michael, then he did the right thing.

Nah, he sent them to be murdered by Gog and Magog. He badly underestimated Dean and Cas' ability to survive.

Or to get their nephilim killing knives.  I havecsussed from She's comments that only their swords could kill them and that they were nephilim because they''re giants that should have died in the flood * explained in more detail else where).