S13.E10: Wayward Sisters

[ahrtee]

15 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I think they'll have better luck doing a reboot of SPN than a spin-off.  Once Jensen and Jared hang it up, then the network could start over with two new young faces and the hopes that they'll find that magic in a bottle again. 

How about "Winchesters--the teen years."  John and the boys, hunting and fighting; fleshing out the backstory with the fights between Sam and John and Dean stuck in the middle.  With lots of monsters and no angels/demons/apocalypses (?)

That would fill the CW's rules:  two pretty leads, plenty of teen angst, lots of potential love interests in each town, and one adult only there to cause problems or give orders.  

Edited May 14, 2018 by ahrtee
clarifying.

[Katy M]

6 hours ago, ahrtee said:

How about "Winchesters--the teen years."  John and the boys, hunting and fighting; fleshing out the backstory with the fights between Sam and John and Dean stuck in the middle.  With lots of monsters and no angels/demons/apocalypses (?)

That would fill the CW's rules:  two pretty leads, plenty of teen angst, lots of potential love interests in each town, and one adult only there to cause problems or give orders.  

On paper that looks great.  But, they'd screw with established cannon so much.  

[Commando Cody]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

On paper that looks great.  But, they'd screw with established cannon so much.  

Some new writer would want them to hunt a Rougarou - something Sam and Dean never heard of until season 4 - just because the writer likes the word "Rougarou". I know. It sounds made up. 

[Jonesy]

I wouldn't mind a sequel with Jack involved--he's popular with most factions of fans imo.

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

Some new writer would want them to hunt a Rougarou - something Sam and Dean never heard of until season 4 - just because the writer likes the word "Rougarou". I know. It sounds made up. 

They've already retconned that in the original.  In Bad Boys, John was hunting a rugaru when Dean went missing, or that's what they told Sam, or something.  The writers also wouldn't be able to resist demons and in Phantom Traveler, Dean made it seem like they'd never really dealt with demons before.  And, in Skin, Sam asked if John had once faced a shapeshifter and "Dean" said no it was a thought form, and that wasn't what tipped Sam off. 

They would be really limited because besides ghosts and werewolves, Sam and Dean had to learn about everything else. They didn't even think vampires were a real thing.

[Commando Cody]

That's why I used the Rougarou as the example. 

[sarthaz]

I have a novel idea: 14 years is enough.

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, sarthaz said:

I have a novel idea: 14 years is enough.

Stay tuned Jared kind of teased 15.

[Jonesy]

3 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Stay tuned Jared kind of teased 15.

Yes we have at least 15 and that may be likely be it...except maybe 16 too.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Jakes

[sarthaz]

7 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Yes we have at least 15 and that may be likely be it...except maybe 16 too.

17 at the most, but no more than 18 or 19 for sure.

[Jonesy]

6 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

17 at the most, but no more than 18 or 19 for sure.

Of course you are joking but 15 is for sure--Jared let out 14 is not scheduled to be final and there is no way the CW isn't giving this long running series an official last year...so we get 15.   Seems likely it then but maybe the boys add one more year.   Those are the realistic bets--15 the most likely.

[Commando Cody]

Why not go for 30 and give The Simpsons a run for their money. 

[Jonesy]

4 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

Why not go for 30 and give The Simpsons a run for their money. 

LOL--though I think the boys will want to go a few more years at most.  Can't see them wanting to go much beyond 15,  most we know is Jared saying he hopes 14 isn't the last.

[sarthaz]

51 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Of course you are joking but 15 is for sure--Jared let out 14 is not scheduled to be final and there is no way the CW isn't giving this long running series an official last year...so we get 15.   Seems likely it then but maybe the boys add one more year.   Those are the realistic bets--15 the most likely.

Whatever happens, I hope it doesn't get the NBC treatment: "They captured America's hearts, but every journey must end.  Don't miss the final 7 seasons of Supernatural ..."

[Jeddah]

36 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

Why not go for 30 and give The Simpsons a run for their money. 

Make it 50 so we can catch Dr. Who.

[FlickChick]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

Make it 50 so we can catch Dr. Who.

By then they'll need more than a crossroads deal can manage. They'll need two paintings in the attic. LOL

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

By then they'll need more than a crossroads deal can manage. They'll need two paintings in the attic. LOL

A Dorian Gray type painting? 

[FlickChick]

19 minutes ago, Katy M said:

A Dorian Gray type painting? 

Yes! ;)

[Commando Cody]

Dick Clark had one of those in his attic. 

[FlickChick]

On 5/14/2018 at 5:54 PM, Commando Cody said:

Dick Clark had one of those in his attic. 

True that!

[rue721]

There were some good points (and I actually like how they integrated Sam and Dean's plot into the Wayward Sisters introduction) but I feel like there were some major problems -- the biggest one being Claire. She was painful to watch, and the whole show was apparently built around her, so there was A LOT of watching Claire going on. I also felt like it ran out of steam about 2/3 of the way through -- even though a lot of ostensibly interesting and exciting stuff happened in the last 14 or 15 minutes, for some reason, they just felt like a struggle to get through.

I'm honestly surprised it wasn't picked up, because I thought it was pretty much a done deal. But on the other hand, I probably wouldn't have watched it myself, so...

On 1/18/2018 at 9:08 PM, MysteryGuest said:

I didn't mind the episode, but I'm sorry they killed off Kaia.  I'll be curious to see if that hooded figure was Kaia all along, or whether she just morphed into Kaia after she was killed.  Considering she'd been to the Bad Place enough to have physical scars from being there, it could somehow have been another version of her from the get go. 

I'm sorry they killed off Kaia, too. And it really pisses me off that in just the previous episode, Kaia was saying that she wasn't a blond white girl so she didn't matter -- and then right away, the show fridged her for a blond white girl (Claire).

And I understand the plot reasons why they left her body in the Bad Place, but I felt so horrible for her that she had been frantically doing meth (ffs!) to keep from sleeping and going there in her nightmares, and now she's sleeping forever in death, and it's not even a nightmare, she's REALLY there.

Just too much immensely disturbing "dramatic irony" going on with Kaia's story IMO.

But in any case, that's an interesting idea that the hooded figure might be wearing Kaia's body or have morphed itself to look like her after killing her, though!

On 1/18/2018 at 9:16 PM, mommo said:

Also, I see zero chemistry between the girls.  I get that Patience has never hunted, Alex is trying to stay out of it, and Claire is all bad ass, fearless girl.  But the interactions seem stunted, forced.

I agree that there was very little chemistry between the girls. I think that Alex and Kaia both managed to create some chemistry with Claire, and Alex also managed to create some with Patience, so I don't think there's no chance they could (or could have, anyway) developed chemistry as a cast. But in terms of this pilot? Nah, not really seeing it. It didn't seem to coalesce too well.

On 1/18/2018 at 9:54 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

Patience is boring, which is potentially the worst 'crime' in television, but for me Claire is pretty much unwatchable. Between the snotty attitude and the angsty dramatics, I just want to smack her. The whole thing was far too overwrought for my taste. Alex was the only one with any chill at all.

Yes, I very much agree with this (although I would say that Patience was underdeveloped rather than boring). I feel like the producers/writers expected some things to have more of an emotional impact than they actually did. Claire's obnoxious voiceover at the end felt really unearned IMO.

On 1/18/2018 at 11:15 PM, Wynne88 said:

- Didn't like Claire's comment there near the end about the other women being 'her' army.

Yes, this was an extremely "off" comment. I think the writers were trying to reintroduce the characters, plus take them on an emotional journey where they coalesce into a "family," and also set them up for a bunch of adventures -- and that was just too much. Especially since I don't think they had a really well-developed idea of who these characters were in the first place. Well, or maybe they had a well-developed idea but the characters were STILL just kind of boring and one-note anyway, I dunno.

On 1/19/2018 at 12:52 AM, catrox14 said:

I would have traded the Banes twins for Claire.

Yup! Man, I really liked the Banes twins. Too bad at least one of them is made of twigs right now, though.

On 1/19/2018 at 12:47 PM, Runswithscissors said:

I always liked Krissy.  I'd like to see her in WS.  Her hunting always made more sense (since her dad was a hunter and she was pretty much raised in it) than Claire taking up hunting, imo. 

I'm not a gigantic Krissy fan, but I liked her pretty well -- and above all, I actually believed in her toughness and resourcefulness in a way that I can never believe about Claire. I guess I just generally believed Krissy as a character in a way I don't believe Claire. I can imagine that Krissy is someone who exists as a hunter in SPN's world, but I can't quite imagine that Claire exists in that world at all, let alone that she's "the muscle" in it. Come on.

I think a lot of that is Kathryn Newton not actually having the right energy for the character they want her to play, but some of it is also directorial choices IMO. The opener with Claire coming into the werewolves' hideout with her blond curls bouncing and a face full of makeup to very cinematically kill the monsters with weapons like her dainty boot knife was just ridiculous. And KN could have held off somewhat on the weird posing that made that scene even more embarrassing than it already was, but she didn't do the lighting design and she didn't block the scene (I assume, anyway), so it's not all her.

On 1/20/2018 at 2:42 PM, Commando Cody said:

Whomever mentioned Buffy and the Scooby Gang guarding against the Hellmouth - seems like a good comparison. 

I think that that's exactly what they were going for -- and that's a pretty good idea, in and of itself IMO. But Buffy also had a unique atmosphere, tone, perspective...and IMO it felt enough like its own very specific little world that, while the Hellmouth being there was a pretty good in-show excuse for the show's myopic focus on Sunnydale, the myopic focus itself felt pretty natural.

Since Wayward Sisters is a spin-off, I feel like setting it in an even smaller "world" than the mothership -- going from SPN being about ranging around the whole country to WS being about just one small-ish city -- already kind of doesn't work. The point of a spin-off is usually to explore the mothership's world further, not to shrink it down. And in addition, I don't think that WS's world felt singular enough for that myopic focus to feel natural in the way that it did on Buffy, anyway. I mean, sorry, but even after this episode, I don't feel like I know about or even care about (let alone am intrigued by) WS's Sioux Falls at all -- even if it does have a Bad Place rift in it.

On 1/21/2018 at 10:39 AM, DittyDotDot said:

I don't think he'll hold to it, but as a young adult out on her own for the first time, I can see why Patience might think he was would and be scared to go back home and face the music.

 

Yeah, nobody wants to go home with her tail between her legs. Everybody wants to go home a big success. I wasn't surprised that Patience didn't want to slink back into her father's house if she didn't have to.

Plus, maybe she liked the psychic stuff or liked being in a houseful of women after living alone with her father for so long...who knows? We don't, unfortunately, because Patience's inner life was never really explored much and the actress had just one expression.

On 1/23/2018 at 2:17 PM, bozodegama said:

If I was James, i'd be texting my daughter frantically every 5 minutes to see if she was okay and would drive to see where she was.  You just don't give your high school age daughter that kind of ultimatum.  Especially, if she's your only family like she appears to be for James.

I agree that it was unnecessary (and silly) drama for James and Patience to have a blowout fight as she was leaving. It would have been enough drama (IMO) if she had just felt guilty leaving him alone so soon after his mother's death, especially seeing as she was going to go do "psychic stuff" and maybe wind up with the same fate as Missouri. Patience still would have had to go anyway, since it's not like she could have just sat at home and let Claire get killed. I think it would have had more of an impact if James had disagreed with her decision but had tried to take it gracefully, and that inflamed Patience's guilt at leaving him more.

In general, I think Patience's character was kind of under-developed and under-imagined by the writers, and I think that the corny remix of the "iconic" John/Sam Stanford fight was symptomatic of that.

On 5/11/2018 at 5:50 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

I wonder if they will pursue the Kaia story on the Mothership.

That would be really fun, IMO -- I really liked Kaia as a character and would be interested in discovering more about her. Plus, the actress playing her seems really strong.

On 5/13/2018 at 6:53 AM, DittyDotDot said:

Supernatural is just a hard show to spin off and I personally wish they'd just let it go and stop trying. Sometimes a good thing is just a good thing and trying to make a copy of it just doesn't work.

It's really too bad, because I enjoy the show's universe a lot, and I actually would like to see different characters trying to live in it. But for some reason, that hasn't work for this show. I think the issue is that the producers have very different ideas about what's cool about the show's universe than I do. It's like all the stuff that I think is funny or intriguing is stuff that they think should be on the cutting room floor. Not sure if that's just my taste being weird or a general problem with the show in terms of the spin off attempts.

I honestly would be pretty interested to see Nurse Alex looking at these monsters from a medical angle, trying to date and move in with a guy for the first time, etc. Because that's something totally different from Sam and Dean, not a re-tred, but it still has the "down-to-earth + MONSTERS!" quality that makes SPN so fun. I feel like the spin offs have not been down to earth enough in general, though, and that the show is always shines when it's as down to earth as possible. That's why scenes like eating the Bad Place Lizard, Patience and Alex pushing that big cabinet down the stairs at the monster because they're not especially good shots, Alex autopsying the Bad Place Beast and clearly getting curious while Patience looks ready to puke -- those were some of the best moments in the episode to me. Because SPN does extremely grounded supernatural stuff better than pretty much any other show I can think of, and that's a lot of what's fun about it (for me, anyway).

On 5/14/2018 at 3:41 PM, sarthaz said:

17 at the most, but no more than 18 or 19 for sure.

And that's all I need! Oh, and 20. Seasons 14-20 and that's all I need! And this thermos...

Edited June 3, 2018 by rue721
typos & grammar

[rue721]

Oh yeah, and did anyone notice Claire's tiny braid? You could see it at the end, I think when she was in Jodi's arms crying for Kaia. LOL she wouldn't be Claire if she didn't have at least one weird braid, I guess

[takalotti]

3 hours ago, rue721 said:

And this thermos...

 

A kindred spirit! ?

[The Companion]

 

On 1/18/2018 at 8:13 PM, catrox14 said:

Sam, look man, I know you are a picky eater, but dude, you're stuck in an alternate world and you don't know when you're getting out so like maybe you should eat something. I'm just saying.

 

It would take me awhile to get to lizard-eating hungry

 

On 1/18/2018 at 9:05 PM, companionenvy said:

 

The two really bad points were a) Claire and Kaia's relationship not being sufficiently built up and b) that awful line about "we saved them. These remarkable women," or whatever exactly it was. This show will be better off if everyone involved stops patting themselves on the back about how progressive they are. It is 2018. Buffy premiered over twenty years ago. Katniss Everdeen exists. The Doctor is a woman.  Get over yourselves.

 

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. 😄

On 1/19/2018 at 9:15 AM, Bergamot said:

The episode was not as bad as it could have been, but ugh! too much Claire!

Everything and everyone was all about Claire, especially Claire herself.  I mean, poor Kaia was dead at the end, but all everyone was focused on was that poor Claire was "broken" and how Claire was going to "need a lot of time" to get over it. Seriously? In the first place, Kaia is the one everyone should be feeling sorry for, and second, come on, they had like a two-minute conversation! (And don't get me started on how after those two minutes, Kaia was so overwhelmed by the awesomeness and importance of Claire that she volunteered to take her to the Bad Place, and then sacrificed herself to save her.)

And I was frankly repulsed by Claire telling Jody that she now understood Jody's feelings about losing another child -- as if Claire's regrets, or hurt feelings or whatever, over the death of someone she knew for less than a day could be equated to Jody's grief over the death of her son. Sure, Claire, it is exactly the same thing!

I feel as if the show was just assuming that we all love Claire already, and didn't see any need to work on making her a character we could care about. For me, the way that apparently she had never really thought about the fact that she could die while hunting (Patience's vision) or the fact that her stubbornness and recklessness might endanger others (Kaia) didn't make her come across as youthfully fearless or even adorably headstrong, but as shallow, self-serving, and really lacking in imagination. Instead of having everyone feel so bad for her at the end, I wanted someone to say, "Yeah, well, we told you so!" That's mean, I know, but that's what the show gets for assuming the Claire-love and not working harder, as I said, to make me care about her as a character.

I don't dislike Claire like so many do, but I agree. It was oddly focused on Claire and the result made it not as good as it could have been. Honestly, the writers of this show always seem to struggle writing for an ensemble. But this is supposed to be an ensemble show. Kaia didn't even get any mourning other than Claire making it all about Claire. And I agree it was horrifying to compare it to the loss of a child. And don't get me started on acting like Claire doesn't have a frame of reference for loss. Both of her parents are dead. She is a traumatized girl who has been trying to reassert control over her life and they suddenly wrote her like she had no clue what trauma felt like. 

On 1/19/2018 at 2:50 PM, AwesomO4000 said:

 

I'm okay with the monsters not talking. I don't think the monsters - or any creatures from that universe - could believably speak a language that Jody or Claire could understand anyway, so we'd end up with annoying subtitles. I think the "bad guy" looking like Kaia will actually be the way that the writers will try to form a connection between Claire and Jody and the villain, and will be what comes to define the heroes. How will they react to having to potentially fight / kill / destroy a villain that either looks like or is inhabiting someone they feel responsible for saving (Kaia)? And will Kaia play a role in that - if it is indeed her body and her consciousness is there? Will she feel abandoned by Claire? If possessed, will she instead bond with / feel more cared for by the monster and turn against Claire?

I think there are a lot of potential avenues to explore in terms of a villain / hero dynamic.

For me though, it's more than just a compelling villain - although that is a good thing. There has to be a good give and take and back and forth. That's the problem for me now with "The Walking Dead." The villain Negan for the past season or two is just constantly defeating the heroes in the end. Every. Damn. Time. It has become more than tiresome, for me anyway.

 

You know, now that you mention it, Negan is a strong argument for making the villains unable to speak. 

On 6/2/2018 at 6:09 PM, rue721 said:

 

I'm sorry they killed off Kaia, too. And it really pisses me off that in just the previous episode, Kaia was saying that she wasn't a blond white girl so she didn't matter -- and then right away, the show fridged her for a blond white girl (Claire).

And I understand the plot reasons why they left her body in the Bad Place, but I felt so horrible for her that she had been frantically doing meth (ffs!) to keep from sleeping and going there in her nightmares, and now she's sleeping forever in death, and it's not even a nightmare, she's REALLY there.

Just too much immensely disturbing "dramatic irony" going on with Kaia's story IMO.

 

 

THIS! All I could think was: hey, she called it. We apparently only care about the pretty blonde one. I mean, even in the "girl power" version of the show, we STILL had to have a woman die helplessly and then have lingering shots of her dead body. Sigh.

 

Overall, I do think this pilot had a lot more potential than Bloodlines and I am actually a little sad that we didn't get to see where they were going. I think it could have been really interesting to have an ensemble show in this universe. I think that they made some mistakes, and it was a little clunky and awkward, but I could see it turning into something interesting.

[gonzosgirrl]

39 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I think it could have been really interesting to have an ensemble show in this universe. I think that they made some mistakes, and it was a little clunky and awkward, but I could see it turning into something interesting.

There are two three problems with this.

Andrew Dabb

Robert Berens

The cast (minus Jody and Donna, and possibly Alex).

[DeeDee79]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

There are two three problems with this.

Andrew Dabb

Robert Berens

The cast (minus Jody and Donna, and possibly Alex).

Agree wholeheartedly. Also, if Dabb and Co. can’t put in the effort to respectfully  depict the brothers who are the reason why fans love this series so much I can’t be bothered to pretend to care about his vanity pet projects.

[Commando Cody]

I find it interesting - just watching some of the promos during the commercial breaks - many of the CW shows are led by women.

-Nancy Drew

-Katie Keen

-Batwoman

-Supergirl

Those are just the promos I saw.  I don't know what the rest of the line up looks like.  To make this work, they would have had to put Jody and Donna through a time warp, who arrive back as teenagers.  They keep all of their knowledge of fighting demons - plus give heartwarming, old soul, advise to the other teenage girls. 

Also hire a cast who can act and writers who know how to write good stories. 

I still believe a Donna and Jody show, without the teenagers, would have been awesome.