Continuity, Nitpicks, Unanswered Questions and Timeline Headaches: When Did That Honeycrisp Apple Come From

[YaddaYadda]

17 minutes ago, Amerilla said:

OK, I've only seen clips and recaps and forum discussions, but Blue is going to take Baby Gideon...where, exactly? Aren't she and her magic still confined to Storybrooke? And wouldn't that subsequently make it relatively easy for the Most Powerful Dark One Eveh to find them?  

I know: my questions are pointless. 

She turned herself into a fairy, so I guess she's not as confined as she is supposed to be.

[Mari]

I didn't even think of that.  Good catch, @Amerilla.  

Maybe she used the permaportal door thing in the--was it the Author's?--mansion to get back to Arendelle, and wherever she wanted to in the Enchanted Forest realm?

[KingOfHearts]

Regina was so jealous of Snow it was a wonder she didn't turn green like her sister.

Edited December 5, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

Something just occurred to me: Why did Pan have to go through that elaborate Home Office plot to get Henry? They showed that the Shadow could travel to our world when there was no magic when it came for the Darlings, and we know it brought Bae to our world during the curse but before magic. The Shadow seemed to be pretty easy to lure, just a child believing was all it took. Henry is the Truest Believer, a desperately lonely kid who literally believed that fairy tales were true, who believed that his birth parents had given him away and that his adoptive mother didn't really love him and was evil. Shouldn't he basically have been Shadow bait? He was a Lost Boy waiting to happen before Emma came to town.

[Camera One]

I think the only "explanation" is Storybrooke was off the map and could not be found or accessed until the Curse broke.  John and Michael knew Henry was "the one"... I suppose we're supposed to assume they could never find him.  

The Shadow could have gotten him when he went to Boston, though.

I would think the Shadow could have come to Storybrooke in Season 2?  I know Henry's "family" was back, but he was pretty stupid, so I wouldn't find it unbelievable he would hitch a ride with Shadow Air.  Though Greg and Tamara were already there to kidnap Henry?  Why did they even need The Bean?

Speaking of which, was Rumple's "downfall" dying at the end of 3A?  Shouldn't he be paranoid it was referring to something else in the future?  Henry almost ruined his plans in the 5B finale too.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I would think the Shadow could have come to Storybrooke in Season 2?  Though Greg and Tamara were already there to kidnap Henry?

It could have happened in early season 2, when Emma was gone and Regina had tried to hold Henry prisoner. Though by then he felt loved by Emma, confirmed by the TLK, and he had David around as a dad/grandpa figure, so he wasn't so much of a Lost Boy then.

I guess whether or not the Shadow could have found Henry during the curse depends on how the Shadow works. Would it matter that Storybrooke wasn't on the map to some kind of magical being that can sense a lonely child in another world? They just had to stick Roland in front of a window and tell him to believe. Henry's yearning just before he found Emma would have probably been extra loud, maybe strong enough to send out a signal the Shadow could sense, even though Storybrooke was invisible.

Hmm, that's another issue: Storybrooke was invisible to the outside world. We saw that when Owen ran away and then could no longer see Regina. But Henry was from the outside world and not affected by the curse. If someone came through town, would they have seen Henry hanging out in the middle of nowhere while he saw himself in the town? Was that how he caught the bus to Boston from an invisible town? Was he waiting at that bus stop in town and flagged down the bus, but the bus driver and the rest of the passengers just thought it was some random kid in the middle of nowhere?

[Camera One]

It could have happened in early season 2, when Emma was gone and Regina had tried to hold Henry prisoner. Though by then he felt loved by Emma, confirmed by the TLK, and he had David around as a dad/grandpa figure, so he wasn't so much of a Lost Boy then.

It seems like The Boy doesn't even have to be "lost".  Roland had a loving father and was otherwise happy.  

[Amerilla]

On 12/29/2016 at 10:39 PM, Shanna Marie said:

I guess whether or not the Shadow could have found Henry during the curse depends on how the Shadow works.

Nothing about the Shadow makes much sense in retrospect. While it was technically "Pan's Shadow," it was shown to be in Neverland before Pan arrived, so at various points in the story - depending on the needs of the plot - it seemed to be both independent of Pan and controlled by him.  Sometimes it was omnipotent (in Think Lovely Thoughts, when it schools Malcolm/Pan on the rules of Neverland and tells him he will die when the hourglass runs down) and insensate (in Save Henry, when Neal shoots it into the sail to make the Jolly Roger fly back to Storybrooke). As with every "magical" thing in Once, there are no firm "rules." Just a lot of "wow, cool, we got Marilyn Manson to do voiceovers!"   

[Camera One]

Did anyone explain to Granny how one of the trees in front of her establishment suddenly died?

[Camera One]

Why hasn't Blue mentioned The Sapling of True Love until now?  Who else could it have been effective against?  "Effective" in quotation marks of course since they don't grow things like they used to...

[Camera One]

I actually had this question and didn't realize they answered it on the Hot Seat, from way back in October.
http://ew.com/article/2016/10/12/once-upon-time-spoilers-hot-seat-season-6/

Quote

Is there more than one key to the Land of Untold Stories?

KITSIS: Yes.

So you have to read interviews to get questions answered on this show.

Also:

Quote

Are you writing this as the final season?

KITSIS: No.

Clearly...

Edited January 29, 2017 by Camera One

[superloislane]

I was randomly watching the episode 'The Bear and the Bow' and while it's a good episode, it reminded me of annoying questions which have never been answered from 5A.

Why did Merlin create a voicemail saying that the only way to defeat the Dark One was by finding Nimue when that doesn't make any sense?

Why was Merlin creating the Dark Curse in the kitchen at Granny's BEFORE Emma and Hook even got there? Because if he wasn't then that means that the Dark Curse can be made by crumbling a heart into any random potion with no specific ingredients at all.

Why did Hook immediately switch to Dark Hook upon learning he was made into a Dark One when he was perfectly fine two seconds before this?

There's probably way more but if anyone is going to that panel with A&E I'd love it if you'd ask something like this!

Edited January 29, 2017 by superloislane
Got the damn episode name wrong!

[Camera One]

That Merlin Help-Me-Obi-Wan voicemail is one of the biggest - if not the biggest - dropped plot point in recent years.  It was even mentioned in a subsequent episode before being dropped.  I would love to hear what Mr. Answers For Everything would say to that one.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

Early this morning, I found myself pondering yet again why the Underworld was basically Storybrooke -- I mean, within the story, not the meta stuff. Hades said he did it to give Zelena her own Storybrooke, but that would have been relatively recent. What was it like before then? What would people who had been there a century or so, like Liam, Milah, and the sailors, experienced before it changed, and what did they think about the change? Did they get some kind of Storybrooke memory download, so that they understood the pay phone or what a crossing guard was? What served the role of the pay phone before it changed? Then there's the fact that Zelena didn't care about Storybrooke. All she cared about was being the chosen one, the one Rumple wanted to cast the curse for him. She didn't even understand enough about what the curse was, how it worked, or what it would do to grasp why being chosen to cast the curse was actually a bad thing, that she was better off not being the chosen curse caster. Giving Zelena her own Storybrooke wouldn't have impressed her, and how many years went by before Hades had even the slightest chance of a way to bring Zelena to the Underworld?

I know they did it so that they could reuse the same sets and locations, but there were better ways to have done that. They could have just said that everyone experiences their own Underworld based on where they're from/where they died/where their heart is. Our viewpoint characters were all from Storybrooke/died in Storybrooke/loved people in Storybrooke, so they would experience the Underworld as Storybrooke. They could have used a tiny clip or two to suggest that people from the Enchanted Forest who'd never been to Storybrooke were experiencing something different. Like, Liam and Milah could have seen themselves as being in that port city where Milah died. They could have done some cool editing with that, with, say, Hook and Liam sitting in Granny's from Hook's perspective, and then when you see the scene from Liam's perspective, they're sitting in Ye Olde Pub. (Also, did Liam and Milah never meet while living in the Underworld all that time? He wouldn't have known about her, but surely she went into the bar where he worked, and wouldn't she have recognized his name?)

Meanwhile, was this the Afterlife only for Enchanted Forest people, or those who died there or in Storybrooke, which seems to function like Enchanted Forest territory? Are people from our Earth there, or are they in some other afterlife? Where does Aunt Em fit in, since she seemed to be the only person from Fictional Kansas World in the Underworld? Is she the only person from her world with unfinished business?

[Camera One]

So if someone got a hold of the genie lamp in the Wish Realm and made a wish that they had never become whatever, would there be a Wish Realm within a Wish Realm?  

[Rumsy4]

Wishception!

[KingOfHearts]

In S1, when Rumple was begging for Regina for the chipped cup in the jail cell, why couldn't he just ask her to give it to him and say "please"? She would have been magically forced to give it to him.

Edited March 1, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[KingOfHearts]

I've noticed a number of instances in the show's run where characters will give inaccurate or misleading information. They're not plot holes per se, but they make it evident that the writers did not have certain future developments in mind when the dialogue was written. For example, Belle said in 3x15 that Rumple forged the Curse. We learned later in 4x12 that he actually got it from someone else. You could headcanon that she was simply incorrect, but you know, meta and all that. The show isn't deep or complex enough for characters not to be spewing truth whenever it's not meant to be a blatant lie. 

I just got to 4A in my rewatch and... there's no way in hell that Zelena was planned to be Marian from the get-go.  Zelena would have had to have loads of information to pass herself off as Robin's wife. When Marshmallow attacked and everyone around her lied unconscious, she grabbed a bow. Would Zelena do that? Even if she knew Regina was there, how could she be sure she was going to save her? I know she's crazy, but would she really risk her life just to screw with Outlaw Queen? It was just so ridiculous.

[Camera One]

The problem with this show is A&E could just handwave that Zelena also took all of Marian memories before she killed her.  Just like they said on Twitter that Zelena glamored everything, even her heart.  I wouldn't be surprised if eventually, they will say you can glamor someone's personality too.

I've noticed a number of instances in the show's run where characters will give inaccurate or misleading information.

Another strategy is to have characters talk around the issue (eg. Snow Queen and Rumple in the woods in early 4A).

Edited March 18, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

I find it hard to believe that Zelena was able to convince Robin for months while living with him that she was his wife, but Belle was able to figure out she wasn't the Mother Superior in about twenty seconds. Yeah, I know, Robin, but then again, Belle. Neither are the sharpest knives in the drawer. Zelena hasn't ever been able to keep a straight face when she's deceiving someone because she's terrible at holding back her emotions. It's all right out there, on the surface. That makes it very hard to believe that she could have been alone with Regina and said things like "maybe you aren't a monster" with a straight face. If Robin had been watching, then maybe, though there probably still would have been a flicker of something on her face that she'd have had to fight or turn away to hide, like an eye roll. Alone with Regina, she probably would have allowed herself to get nasty, even if she was able to stay in character as Marian, who had reason to be nasty with Regina.

9 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I know she's crazy, but would she really risk her life just to screw with Outlaw Queen?

Then there's that. Her issue with Regina was about being the one who was chosen -- Regina was the one Cora chose, while she abandoned Zelena, and the one Rumple chose for the curse. Her whole Evil Scheme 1.0 was about erasing Regina's existence so she'd get to be the chosen one. Stealing Regina's boyfriend seems like a very odd Evil Scheme 2.0, especially with her setting it all up so that Robin was free to choose Regina, then was forced to go with "Marian." Her revenge scheme against Regina for being the chosen one wouldn't be to set it up to encourage Robin to choose Regina and then her be something he was stuck with -- especially to then go have to live in poverty in the World Without Magic where she'd have no power. If she was going to use impersonating Marian to get revenge on Regina, she'd have made sure Robin knew details (even if she made them up) about what Regina did to her, would have broadcast that to the town, would have started the anti-Regina club, maybe would have run for mayor, all while being the heroic victim of Regina's atrocities.

[Camera One]

22 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

but Belle was able to figure out she wasn't the Mother Superior in about twenty seconds. 

These characters are still getting tricked by the whole Glamour trick.. see Evil Queen posing as Archie before suddenly, for no reason, someone suddenly realized that wasn't Archie.

And yet Regina and Emma decided not to bother with a Glamour spell in the Wish Realm when they should've used it.  The inconsistency is appalling.

The spell making scene in "Murder Most Foul" was fun, but it again raised the question why people always had to rely on Rumple and Regina for spells. Plus the spell didn't even make sense since the coin was not last seen on Pleasure Island.  Were there any other circumstances in the past when this spell could have been handy to have?

[InsertWordHere]

Does Tinkerbell's appearance in the EF after Regina went full on Evil Queen place her meeting with Hook even later in the timeline than previously thought? What, did they know each other for like two days before Hook went back to the EF before the curse? Maybe Tink was allowed shore leave from Neverland like Hook was and that's how she was there. 

[Shanna Marie]

1 minute ago, InsertWordHere said:

Maybe Tink was allowed shore leave from Neverland like Hook was and that's how she was there. 

Maybe she came along with Hook on a cake run.

[ParadoxLost]

And I guess this means we'll never know why Robin was the only one that didn't age in Wish Realm.

[Shanna Marie]

39 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

And I guess this means we'll never know why Robin was the only one that didn't age in Wish Realm.

And Nottingham -- so it wasn't just a result of David's wish that she got what she deserved or Robin's soul essence going somewhere.

[Camera One]

3 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

Maybe Tink was allowed shore leave from Neverland like Hook was and that's how she was there. 

You're allowed one free pass if you're trying to redeem Regina.  

[Shanna Marie]

So, our nitpick issues for the latest episode seem to be:

• How did Hook manage to make/use a dreamcatcher to take a specific memory when he has no magic powers?
• How did Emma recognize David's father in the dreamcatcher?
• How did Tink get back to the Enchanted Forest to keep meddling in Regina's life? Or did she stalk her for a while before heading to Neverland?
• Since when has self loathing been Regina's problem? Isn't she more of a narcissist?

[Curio]

9 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Since when has self loathing been Regina's problem? Isn't she more of a narcissist?

This one might be a case where Regina both loves herself and hates herself at the same time. She's a narcissist so of course she's only going to care about herself and can't empathize with other people because she can only see things through her lens, but she also has the capacity to hate herself because she hates that she's never happy. It's not so much that Regina has self-awareness like Hook and recognizes that she's a terrible person, but it's more like she doesn't enjoy that she's not happy, and if she's not happy, she hates herself and her current situation. But yeah, it's hard to believe that the person who blames everyone else and their dog for her issues truly hates herself the most.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

How did Hook manage to make/use a dreamcatcher to take a specific memory when he has no magic powers?

Maybe they're reusable and he recycled one that Emma made in Camelot?

[LaChavalina]

I'm still befuddled by EQ's happy ending and "fresh start" being in the wish realm. I guess Snowing are dead in the wish realm (from 6x10), so that seems happy enough for the EQ, but the EQ was already known there and in fact Regina just killed Snowing in that realm. So, EQ is now living in a realm that is ruled by a version of Henry who is not her son and who wants to hunt her down and kill her? Huh?

[KingOfHearts]

1 minute ago, LaChavalina said:

I'm still befuddled by EQ's happy ending and "fresh start" being in the wish realm. I guess Snowing are dead in the wish realm (from 6x10), so that seems happy enough for the EQ, but the EQ was already known there and in fact Regina just killed Snowing in that realm. So, EQ is now living in a realm that is ruled by a version of Henry who is not her son and who wants to hunt her down and kill her? Huh?

Why did everyone in the tavern flee when they saw Regina, but didn't bat an eye when the Evil Queen walked in?

[Curio]

6 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Why did everyone in the tavern flee when they saw Regina, but didn't bat an eye when the Evil Queen walked in?

Do we know how time works in the Wish Realm? Maybe several decades have passed and no one remembers the Evil Queen anymore?

[superloislane]

22 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Why did everyone in the tavern flee when they saw Regina, but didn't bat an eye when the Evil Queen walked in?

I thought I did see people sneaking out in the background

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, LaChavalina said:

I'm still befuddled by EQ's happy ending and "fresh start" being in the wish realm. I guess Snowing are dead in the wish realm (from 6x10), so that seems happy enough for the EQ, but the EQ was already known there and in fact Regina just killed Snowing in that realm. So, EQ is now living in a realm that is ruled by a version of Henry who is not her son and who wants to hunt her down and kill her? Huh?

And where Wish!Rumple wants revenge for what happened to Belle. 

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

Why did everyone in the tavern flee when they saw Regina, but didn't bat an eye when the Evil Queen walked in?

The Writer answered this one:

em‏ @ehcan08  22h22 hours ago
 @InkTankGirl If alternate Robin and the EQ went to his original land, why did no one recognize the EQ and run away again?

Brigitte Hales‏ @InkTankGirl
@ehcan08 Maybe they were all too drunk.

[KingOfHearts]

I guess you have to be pretty drunk to not run away from Regina, in the Wish Realm or Storybrooke.

Edited March 28, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[oncebluethrone]

Does anyone have any idea how much time has passed this season?

[daxx]

I'm on a rewatch, mostly as background noise as I do other things.

In 4-16 "Heart of Gold" Marion tells Robin to let Gold die and he says "that's not like you" then looks confused. I assume this episode is when they decided Marion was Zelena? I haven't seen another single thing that would indicate she was Zelena before this Oz episode.

I'm surprised they didn't give any clue even in the prior episode.

once they decided on this storyline why didn't they put this kind of teaser in prior?

Edited March 31, 2017 by daxx

[Camera One]

38 minutes ago, daxx said:

In 4-16 "Heart of Gold" Marion tells Robin to let Gold die and he says "that's not like you" then looks confused. I assume this episode is when they decided Marion was Zelena? I haven't seen another single thing that would indicate she was Zelena before this Oz episode.

Adam claims they decided when they wrote the Season 3 finale.

[daxx]

Oh I know what Adam says but why wouldn't they drop any Easter eggs? That makes no sense to me. I always assumed they were there I just hadn't noticed but I'm paying more attention this time and really didn't see anything.

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, daxx said:

Oh I know what Adam says but why wouldn't they drop any Easter eggs? That makes no sense to me. I always assumed they were there I just hadn't noticed but I'm paying more attention this time and really didn't see anything.

Yeah, there are no Easter Eggs and it makes no sense based on how Zarian behaved.  Either they lie about their plans, or they include no hints for the sole purpose of shock value, which is cheap and tacky.

[KingOfHearts]

Who would want to put Brennan under a sleeping curse? Isn't that sort of thing usually high profile? Maleficent invented it.

[Shanna Marie]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Who would want to put Brennan under a sleeping curse? Isn't that sort of thing usually high profile? Maleficent invented it.

And how old is Maleficent if she invented the curse 100 years ago (or more), around the time Brennan was cursed soon after abandoning his sons?

[Camera One]

Hmm... this is thought-provoking.  Your questions are pointless?

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

Yeah, there are no Easter Eggs and it makes no sense based on how Zarian behaved.  Either they lie about their plans, or they include no hints for the sole purpose of shock value, which is cheap and tacky.

I think they were lying because then nothing Zelena did made any sense. She kills Marion and returns to Storybrook to pretend to be Marion. She's put on ice, she encourages Robin towards Regina, why would she do that if she wanted Robin to "win". Wouldn't Zelena had been trying to ruin Regina's life and gloating? We were suppose to think Marion was a bitch for showing up out of the blew to ruin Regina's romance and how horrible Emma. They just expected everyone to be thrilled with Marion on ice, crypt sex and were surprised that people were grossed out by the crypt sex and didn't find Robin or Regina sympathetic.  They tried to fix it with "Marian was Zelena the whole time!".  

[KAOS Agent]

Bex wasn't even asked to come back until well into 4A. It wasn't a planned thing until the audience (and actors) reacted badly to Adultery Queen. You can't do the Marian = Zelena thing without Bex on board.

[Shanna Marie]

Continuity errors like them forgetting what Tink and Regina knew about what had happened to each other when they met up again during 3A or getting the details wrong about David's father's departure and what he saw or knew are so maddening because it wouldn't have taken much to avoid them. The writers may talk about how they don't have the time to know the series with obsessive detail like their fans do, but we're doing this as a hobby. This is their job. It's not quite so bad that they didn't realize that the Hook and Snow scene in the latest episode was their first and only one-on-one scene, since knowing that would have required rewatching five seasons worth and charting who was in which scenes together. But with the Tinkerbell and David things, there was one episode -- really, just one or two scenes within the episode -- to review. If you're writing an episode that calls back to one particular episode in the series history, wouldn't it make sense to rewatch that one episode before writing? With the David one, it was just one scene that's probably on YouTube. With the Tink, Regina, and Robin stuff, it might have amounted to a few scenes, but at the very least the one where they're reunited in Neverland and we see that Tink doesn't know what Regina did and Regina doesn't know that Tink lost her wings for helping her. Are they really so pressed for time that they can't be bothered to watch one or two scenes to make sure they remembered correctly what actually went on the air? With as many drafts as they do, it could be easy to forget what the final version was, so it makes sense to check.

[Camera One]

I agree the David continuity error has no excuse.  The Tinkerbelle thing is a little confusing.  In "Quite a Common Fairy", Regina tells Tinkerbelle a lie that she went in and the man was terrible.  But then Tinkerbelle accused her of not going in, so it's unclear whether she believed Regina or not.  But then in Neverland, they had this scene:

TINKERBELLE: "Why did you lie?  Because I've been over it a milllion times and that spell worked.  You never went in.  It's the only explanation. 

REGINA: Yes. Yes, it was.  You're right.  I never went in.

----

So could the "Page 23" dialogue still work?  Because it's a little vague.

TINKERBELLE: She doesn't care about love.  I should know.  I was there when she threw her chance at love away.

REGINA: What are you doing here? Shouldn't you be living in a tulip somewhere?

TINKERBELLE: What happened to me doesn't matter. Just look at you. You've done nothing but fill your heart with hate since we saw each other. But it doesn't have to be that way.

REGINA: What do you care about any of this?

TINKERBELLE: I care because this started with me. I showed you your future with the pixie dust. The one with the lion tattoo you should be with him. He's still out there.

REGINA: Pixie dust doesn't dictate what I do. Nothing and no one does.

TINKERBELLE: Pixie dust doesn't dictate anything. It just shows you the possibilities. It's up to you.

REGINA: Thanks, but no, thanks.  I'm happy the way I am.
TINKERBELLE:  I don't believe you. You're just saying that to hide the real reason that you won't take a chance on love. You don't think you deserve it.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Camera One

[Curio]

The writers should have a script on hand and watch every episode live, and anything that gets cut on air they have to cross out in their script. Then, they keep an official "this is what aired on television" script pile handy for looking back at continuity questions. I feel like it's Showrunning 101 to have an official bible around for reference.

[Camera One]

Yeah, plus it takes 10 seconds to go on Google and re-read a script for a previous episode.  For the David episode, all one had to do was to re-read the one monologue David gave to Anna.  It's astounding that the writer didn't even do that.  As said above, it's their job, for goodness' sake.

I just found this line from "Page 23" funny:

Quote

TINKERBELLE: What happened to me doesn't matter.

This is what a Writer writes when they don't want to think about how this fits into the bigger backstory of the show.  It's kinda lazy.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Camera One