Continuity, Nitpicks, Unanswered Questions and Timeline Headaches: When Did That Honeycrisp Apple Come From

[KingOfHearts]

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Here

That says Regina was born in 1937. Wouldn't that put her in her mid 40s when the curse is cast? She's supposed to be in her 30s.

[Curio]

I always assumed Regina was in her 40s. If she's supposed to be about a decade older than Snow, and Snow is now in her mid 30s, that puts Regina in her mid 40s. That's part of the reason why I don't like how they've let Lana grow her hair out over the seasons. Her shorter and more dated hair cut in Season 1 aged her up, but the longer hair now makes her look closer to Emma and Snow's ages.

[Rumsy4]

She does regular juice cleanses. 

[InsertWordHere]

5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

She does regular juice cleanses. 

Apple juice cleanses.

[Rumsy4]

Why was Henry surprised to see more storybooks in the New York library? We already saw a whole hidden room of empty books in Merlin's the Sorcerer's mansion. The Underworld had a different set of stories. Henry's storybook did not have the stories of Whale of Hook in it. So, why was the huge takeaway from the episode that there were several storybooks, and the people there were real people? It makes no sense to me. How did the storybooks get collected in the library? If the stories in Steampunk Land are unfinished, how come those stories were in the book Henry found? Are they incomplete stories? Nothing about the set-up mades any sense to me.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Rumsy4

[InsertWordHere]

Oh, please let them be copies of people trapped in a previous curse. 

[daxx]

A town of people frozen and trapped (and shrunk) is in Gold's shop. The people needed by the people in steampunk land to finish the stories?

[Camera One]

I don't remember being told that there was a town trapped in a Snowglobe before.

[Curio]

Plot Twist: It's Arendelle.

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

Plot Twist: It's Arendelle.

It's the North Pole. 7A is #SaveSanta.

[Mari]

I was hoping it was the real Storybrooke, where more complex and consistent versions of our characters are, prepared to have authentic reactions, and with no knowledge or desire to apologize for things that are not their fault. 

[InsertWordHere]

Maybe the people in the snowglobe are the people in Untold Stories world, hence why they used that water effect both times the portal was opened. It made sense to use water when they came out of the fountain, but not really when they were sucked in. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[Shanna Marie]

I've been wondering ... how did they explain the baby sister to Roland? They wiped his memories of Marian's return, so as far as he knows, his mom died when he was very little. More recently, his dad has been with Regina. Now here's this other woman who's the mom of his baby sister (and Zelena referred to her that way when they were saying goodbye). He's at the age where babies are explained in terms of "when a mommy and a daddy love each other very much, they make a baby," so that makes things even more confusing, as there's no sign that his daddy loves Zelena at all. That just makes the farewell scene with Zelena even creepier, as he's hugging good-bye his mother's murderer and his father's rapist, and kissing good-bye his baby sister whose mom wasn't his father's girlfriend.

[Camera One]

To the Writers, Zelena is redeemed, and so that's that.  

Just like they wrote everyone not reacting to Hook being alive again, because they knew all along that Hook would be alive again.  At least the characters didn't have pursed lips like they were displeased when they heard their good friend Blue was back.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

In the Pilot, Emma uses a USB drive to recover Henry's deleted emails. In the S5 finale, she uses it to recover his deleted search history. Not to be too geeky, but that data is typically stored on a remote server. Not on the computer itself. She wouldn't be able to get that information from a simple USB drive. I could be wrong, but even if she could get that data, wouldn't it be encrypted? It's a little silly she can just pop a stick and get deleted, confidential data in a matter of seconds.

Edited May 21, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Why is Neal still paying for internet?  Some telecom company tricked him into signing a 100 year contract?

[tri4335]

Season 7 we will find out that Neal signed a deal with some villain to sustain that apartment in perpetuity  and payment was his son being sold into slavery at X age (whatever the timeline is at that point) and that is why he wanted to destroy magic.  Then we will have another season of Save Henry, as we know they like to recycle plots and have all the parallels. Just imaging the feels!

[Camera One]

Was Henry stealing money from the exact same safe as the one Rumple stores his most prized possessions?  I do not buy that Rumple wouldn't have a magical lock on that thing, or on the door of his Shop, for that matter.

[Rumsy4]

It was probably Blood Magic. :-p

[KingOfHearts]

11 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

It was probably Blood Magic.

Blood Magic is pretty useless when everyone's related.

[3dog]

Random question: I've been watching some old clips of the show lately and saw one with Hook and Cora where he...takes Aurora's heart? Did I misunderstand? Hook never had magic did he? It's been a while since I saw the early seasons, but I feel like I'd remember that.

[KingOfHearts]

13 minutes ago, 3dog said:

Random question: I've been watching some old clips of the show lately and saw one with Hook and Cora where he...takes Aurora's heart? Did I misunderstand? Hook never had magic did he? It's been a while since I saw the early seasons, but I feel like I'd remember that.

Regina enchanted his hook so that he could rip out of the heart of her mother, Cora. Since he did not end up being able to go through with the assassination, he was able to use the enchantment to get Aurora's heart.

Edited May 22, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[andromeda331]

12 minutes ago, 3dog said:

Random question: I've been watching some old clips of the show lately and saw one with Hook and Cora where he...takes Aurora's heart? Did I misunderstand? Hook never had magic did he? It's been a while since I saw the early seasons, but I feel like I'd remember that.

Regina enchanted his hook to rip out Cora's heart but when Hook got to Cora she made a deal with Hook to make it look like he killed her to fool Regina so it was still enchanted to rip out a heart.

[3dog]

Thank you KingOfHearts and andromeda331! I don't remember that at all. Guess I should do some more rewatching.

[babyPhat279]

I kind of love that this show is the epitome of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. City trapped in a snow globe? Parents trapped as puppets? A bunch of people spending eternity in a river of tormented souls? And everyone's just like "lol, what're ya gonna do?"

[Camera One]

Why did the Merry Men all want to go back to the Enchanted Forest?  Was Robin Hood planning to go back too?  Were they all just waiting around Storybrooke because of Robin?  

[Camera One]

Did they ever give back Violet's memory of having her heart taken from her by Dark Emma?  Did they tell her?  Or is Henry keeping the truth from her?  

[Rumsy4]

On 5/22/2016 at 7:34 PM, Camera One said:

Were they all just waiting around Storybrooke because of Robin?  

I suspect that was the case. It's not like any of them had Cursed identities or jobs in Storybrooke, and I suspect their usual profession of stealing from the rich to give to the poor (themselves) was awkward considering their leader was in a relationship with the Mayor.

[YaddaYadda]

I've been wondering about something in regards to Emma teleporting. In 5x01, Emma refused to use any magic because of the whole Dark One inside of her, and I was under the impression that teleporting was something people with dark magic did. But in 5x13, Emma teleported herself and Meg to Snowing's loft in the Underworld. Is that something that's remained part of her after being the Dark One? Or is it that she learned how to do it, and now can do it? Emma never tried to poof herself anywhere before 5x02 when Hook accidentally summoned her.

[justmythoughts]

4 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I've been wondering about something in regards to Emma teleporting. In 5x01, Emma refused to use any magic because of the whole Dark One inside of her, and I was under the impression that teleporting was something people with dark magic did. But in 5x13, Emma teleported herself and Meg to Snowing's loft in the Underworld. Is that something that's remained part of her after being the Dark One? Or is it that she learned how to do it, and now can do it? Emma never tried to poof herself anywhere before 5x02 when Hook accidentally summoned her.

My guess: at the beggining of S5 she was avoiding magic maybe because she was afraid it would trigger dark magic insed of her.

After "saving Robin bs" she might have realized she could not totally avoid using her powers in order to help other or even the cause of finding Merlin. 

I am sorry we did not see how being the DO affected Emma in regards magic. She seemed more confident as you said in poofing herself, but at the same time I don't recall her using magic lightly, only in necessary moments (as saving someone). It would be nice to know how more comfortable around her powers she is (or not) now.

[KingOfHearts]

6 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I've been wondering about something in regards to Emma teleporting. In 5x01, Emma refused to use any magic because of the whole Dark One inside of her, and I was under the impression that teleporting was something people with dark magic did. But in 5x13, Emma teleported herself and Meg to Snowing's loft in the Underworld. Is that something that's remained part of her after being the Dark One? Or is it that she learned how to do it, and now can do it? Emma never tried to poof herself anywhere before 5x02 when Hook accidentally summoned her.

Glinda used teleportation in 3x20.

[Shanna Marie]

My mental fanwank is that it seems like the Dark One powers come with an internal instruction manual. Up to this point, Emma has had to work to learn to use and control her powers, but we saw that when Rumple and Hook became Dark Ones with no magical experience, they were automatically able to just use their powers. Emma may have lost the Darkness, but she retains the memory of being the Dark One, so she may be able to apply the memory of how to use the dark powers to her own light powers.

[Shanna Marie]

Thinking about how only evil people or people under dark spells are allowed to be angry at Regina ... whatever happened to her Enchanted Forest lackeys? We only saw her in Storybrooke with Sydney and Graham. Where are the rest of the Black Knights? Did they all die in the attempt to kill baby Emma? Or did they end up living ordinary lives in Storybrooke? If so, how do they feel about that now that they have their memories back? Did they ever get their hearts back? Did any of them work for her voluntarily because they believed in her cause, or were they all enslaved like Graham and the guy who got his heart crushed in the 100th episode? And what about the gaggle of villains we saw Regina meeting with early in season 1, before she cast the curse? She gave them the big speech about casting the curse so that villains could win, so where did they end up? Did they get luxurious lives in Storybrooke that they've been living contentedly offscreen? (Someone has to own those boats in the harbor that Hook "borrows") Or do they feel ripped-off by Regina's curse? Or did Regina double-cross them, and they got stuck back in the Enchanted Forest, where they're 28 years older -- or probably just got stomped by ogres?

She wasn't part of that group of villains, but about the only Enchanted Forest villain I can think of whom we've seen living a Storybrooke life was Bo Peep, and she was running the butcher shop. The former(?) warlord with the magical staff is content to just run the butcher shop and hasn't made a play to take over the town?

[Camera One]

The same can be said for where Charming's loyal knights all went.  None of them wanted to help out in the Sheriff department?

[Camera One]

So was the Curse that Merlin/Hook mixed up just a giant transportation device?  Since Storybrooke was already created?  Did the food supply in Storybrooke increase with the influx of people?  Why were only some objects transported (eg. Arthur's box, Dreamcatchers, Excalibur, toadstool), but not structures or furniture?

[KingOfHearts]

I'm sure with Emma's Dark One powers combined with her Savior magic, she could have teleported everyone back to Storybrooke. (Or you know, just use the freaking wand.)

[Shanna Marie]

I suspect that was a writing contrivance to come up with a way to transport everyone and get Merlin out of the way, all at once, since Merlin might have had useful information or might have been able to help the situation (though from what we saw, that hope was pretty slim). Plus, it created a Shocking! Moment that looked cool (probably the real consideration).

I'm still not sure how/when the curse was brewed and how Hook was able to do it, even if Nimue was in the driver's seat at the time. Or was Merlin already brewing it before Hook showed up (wasn't it in the background of his voice mail?), and if so, why?

[Rumsy4]

13 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm still not sure how/when the curse was brewed and how Hook was able to do it, even if Nimue was in the driver's seat at the time. Or was Merlin already brewing it before Hook showed up (wasn't it in the background of his voice mail?), and if so, why?

Yes. Why? If Merlin really was brewing the Dark Curse, was he planning to get one of the Nevengers to cast the Dark Curse? If so, who was to be the scapegoat?  

If not, how did Dark Hook/Nimue modify some random potion into the Dark Curse? 

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So was the Curse that Merlin/Hook mixed up just a giant transportation device? 

Yup. What a waste! Pan cast a Dark Curse when Sb was already in existence as well. Also, when Regina/Snow cast it, they left off the false-memories that came with the original iteration. It seems like there are multiple layers of the Curse that can be used or left off at will. 

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Or you know, just use the freaking wand.

I guess Dark Hook wanted to be dramatic. Especially as the Apprentice's wand was probably with Regina. 

[Curio]

40 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

If Merlin really was brewing the Dark Curse, was he planning to get one of the Nevengers to cast the Dark Curse? If so, who was to be the scapegoat?

In the Offscreenville moment we never got to see, Merlin lost all hope when Emma turned Hook into a Dark One. Merlin fully believed Emma could fight the darkness and not succumb to Nimue's demands, but he was convinced Dark Hook would be catastrophic and destroy them all. (Possibly because he saw that vision of Hook standing with all the Dark Ones.) With the opportunity to destroy Nimue at his disposal and send everyone to safety in Storybrooke, Merlin secretly went to Granny's kitchen and began brewing a Dark Curse with the intention of getting rid of Nimue for good. Everything was going fine until Hook interrupted him and Hook/Nimue killed Merlin before he could kill her.

[Camera One]

With the opportunity to destroy Nimue at his disposal

The details are fuzzy in my mind and there's no way in Underbrooke I'm going to rewatch.  How was he planning to destroy Nimue?  He surely couldn't have expected himself to overpower Dark Hook.  And what was with the last-minute Obi-Wan Kinobe message telling the heroes to find Nimue?  Clearly, he intended there to be some kind of backup plan but I don't get it.

[Rumsy4]

Was Head!Nimue real? I didn't think she was, as she'd been dead for centuries at that point. Head!Rumple was clearly not real Rumple, who was in a coma in Storybrooke at that point. Why in Camelot did Merlin want the Nevengers to "find" Nimue? Did he mean Head!Nimue who could only be seen by Dark Ones, or dead Nimue in the Underworld? And why would Finding Nimue (in theaters, Summer 2018) help defeat Dark Hook?

Speaking of, how did Head!Nimue communicate with the dead Nimue in the Underworld and inform her of the deal with Dark Hook? What about all the other former Dark Ones? 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

Was Head!Nimue real? Head!Rumple was clearly not real Rumple, who was in a coma in Storybrooke at that point.

My impression was that Head!Rumple was actually the aspect of the collective Dark One that came from its time being part of Rumple. Ditto with Head!Nimue. It seemed like the current Dark One is an aggregation of the original Dark One, formed of Nimue, with bits of each host along the way. Which would mean that Rumple now has bits of Emma and Hook in his head (we really need to see Rumple snapping and getting snarked at by Head!Hook). Maybe the remnant of Nimue in the Dark One entity was able to communicate with the soul of Nimue in the Underworld via a kind of ansible-like arrangement.

And I suspect I have now put far more thought into how this works than the writers did.

[Camera One]

So where did the Ex-Dark Ones board the boat that sails into the Lake of Hell in Storybrooke?  The Giant Clocktower didn't open for them?

Edited July 7, 2016 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

So where did the Ex-Dark Ones board the boat that sails into the Lake of Hell in Storybrooke?

I'm guessing wherever Regina and the others would have caught the boat back to Storybrooke if Henry hadn't changed Regina's mind about leaving. I don't remember why Hades didn't just use the boat that way when he supposedly changed his mind and was supposedly letting everyone go. This is probably a good time to repeat that "Your questions are pointless" quote, since the answer is likely "the swirly portal in the clock tower looked cooler, and besides, it provided a way for Hades and Zelena to go and then the others to barely make it once they escaped from the library, and it would have been hard to do that with the boat."

[Rumsy4]

16 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Maybe the remnant of Nimue in the Dark One entity was able to communicate with the soul of Nimue in the Underworld via a kind of ansible-like arrangement.

I suppose so... But it would have been nice to know for sure. In fact, I have a sneaking feeling the writers forgot Head!Nimue wasn't real/alive.

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And I suspect I have now put far more thought into how this works than the writers did.

As always. 

[KingOfHearts]

Why weren't Nimue and the Dark Ones dressed like the other people of Underbrooke? Why did they retain their EF looks?

I just realized that they can use Hook's blood if they ever need to get to the Underworld again. 

Edited July 7, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

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No, Robin was only available to data Regina because Emma, through her clumsiness, inserted herself into the timeline and altered it. This was not a multiverse, so the "original" timeline never happened. We now the timeline was altered, but the characters in the show only know the altered reality. They had to take Emma's word for it that the timeline was changed.

Technically, the original timeline still happened for Emma and Hook (and Hook is one of the only characters who actually lived through both of them). They will always have two memories of what happened in the past, so just because they're the only two who remember the original timeline doesn't mean it never happened. If it never happened, then we might as well ignore huge chunks of Season 1 because those scenes don't count. Even though the timeline was altered, Regina was still the one who captured Marian, paraded her around villages with a bag on her head, and locked her in a dungeon. The fact that Regina separated Marian from Robin in the first place in the Enchanted Forest is why Robin was single in the original timeline and available to date Regina in 3B, and Regina locking Marian in the dungeon in the updated timeline is still a huge reason why she was able to date Robin at all. Either the timeline doesn't get altered and Regina kills Marian, or Emma steps in and removes Marian from the timeline altogether. Either way, Regina capturing Marian is the primary reason she was taken from Robin in both timelines.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

14 minutes ago, Curio said:

Either way, Regina capturing Marian is the primary reason she was taken from Robin in both timelines.

Plus, at the time Regina and Robin were having their fireside picnic and he was talking about the hell he went through when he lost Marian, the original timeline was in place and Regina had executed Marian. Neither of them realized it at the time, but Regina was the one who had caused the pain Robin was talking about. I still can't believe that they never really addressed that because it casts a pall over the entire relationship. How do you cheer for a relationship that was only possible because one of them is responsible for the other losing his previous partner? I also couldn't feel "poor Regina" when it looked like she might have lost him to Marian because it seems wrong for her to benefit from her own villainy, and if she's supposedly reformed, wouldn't she have felt bad benefiting from her own villainy? It was all rather fruit of the poisonous tree. If it wasn't going to matter, why couldn't Emma have found Marian in Rumple's dungeon? Like, Marian could have learned about one of his evil schemes, and he could have locked her in his dark vault, and Emma couldn't bear to leave her in there, and then we later learn that it was Zelena all along who'd killed Marian when she was on her way back to her family and took her form so she could spy on Rumple, and then got caught. That wouldn't have changed anything about the outcome but it makes Robin and Regina look less like jerks.

[orza]

Regina didn't kill Marion. That bit of villainy never happened and Regina has no memory of it. Just like Snow and Charming's memory of how they met is only what was shown in Snow Drifts, not what happened in Snow Falls. This a consistency paradox of time travel. Emma and Hook as the time travelers remember events that didn't happened because their presence and actions prevented those events from happening. We as viewers remember those events because we are not part of the story. Yes, that means that Emma and Hook they wiped out some of the events we saw in season 1, like how Emma's parents met. That doesn't take anything away from the season 1 episodes. We can still enjoy them for what they are.

[Camera One]

Regardless, Regina still ordered Marian to be killed, and had her imprisoned, and was the ultimate cause of Marian becoming "lost" to Robin.  We all know as the outside observer that the only other alternative was that Marian would have been executed.  And now we know she still was executed, except by Zelena.  But let's just forget either of these wonderful sisters had anything to do with Marian because out of sight, out of mind, Marian who?  Let's have Zelena giving Roland a heart-felt goodbye instead.