S13.E10: Submerged

[ReidFan]

looks like those of us in Canada who've been watching at 8 pm will have to join the 10 pm brigade. CTV has picked up the new XFiles and has slotted that into the 8 pm time  :(

 

no more advance notice from us about the episodes

[Danielg342]

Press release:

Quote

The BAU searches for an Unsub responsible for multiple backyard pool homicides.

[secnarf]

2 hours ago, ReidFan said:

looks like those of us in Canada who've been watching at 8 pm will have to join the 10 pm brigade. CTV has picked up the new XFiles and has slotted that into the 8 pm time  :(

 

no more advance notice from us about the episodes

No more watching it on Wednesday nights for me :) That's too late for me!

[Hotchgirl18]

A few things: 

1. The unsub looks like Gerard Butler 's Phantom of the Opera. 

2. Just as I feared, Prentiss 's interrogation skills see crap. Demote her.

3. What's with everyone calling each other by their first names? 

4. Pirates? 

[Annber03]

So that was an odd case. I did like the bittersweet nature of the ending, though. That dead body popping up in Jess' nightmare actually made me flinch a little!

And I'm glad that Matt made a point of calling for backup when he went to confront Jess and Tim, because I was sitting here thinking, "Uhhhhhh, why are you going there alone?" the whole time. After all the team went through with Scratch at the beginning of the season and whatnot, you'd think they'd be a lot more alert about making sure nobody's going anywhere alone to talk down unsubs. Wish they'd followed up a bit more on him being shot, though, even if his vest took the brunt. 

Also, the way they kinda lingered on Rossi at the beginning of the episode and made a point of showing him getting coffee, I feel like there's going to be more to him being up late than a simple poker game? I dunno. Wish they could've followed up on that a bit. I did like JJ's guesses as to his possible poker buddies, though, simply because the thought of Rossi and Judge Judy playing poker together is a very amusing one :D. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Annber03

[Hotchgirl18]

17 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

So that was an odd case. I did like the bittersweet nature of the ending, though. That dead body popping up in Jess' nightmare actually made me flinch a little!

And I'm glad that Matt made a point of calling for backup when he went to confront Jess and Tim, because I was sitting here thinking, "Uhhhhhh, why are you going there alone?" the whole time. After all the team went through with Scratch at the beginning of the season and whatnot, you'd think they'd be a lot more alert about making sure nobody's going anywhere alone to talk down unsubs. Wish they'd followed up a bit more on him being shot, though, even if his vest took the brunt. 

Also, the way they kinda lingered on Rossi at the beginning of the episode and made a point of showing him getting coffee, I feel like there's going to be more to him being up late than a simple poker game? I dunno. Wish they could've followed up on that a bit. I did like JJ's guesses as to his possible poker buddies, though, simply because the thought of Rossi and Judge Judy playing poker together is a very amusing one :D. 

Hmmm. Everyone else has been rung through the wringer. Maybe it's time for Rossi to have his turn? 

[The Wild Sow]

13 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

And I'm glad that Matt made a point of calling for backup when he went to confront Jess and Tim, because I was sitting here thinking, "Uhhhhhh, why are you going there alone?" the whole time.

So how'd Matt get the cinderblock & the ropes off Tim before hauling him up?  I'm guessing he must have had a knife on his person?

I agree that is was an odd case.

[CrimeFan12]

It was a good episode, a little odd, but good.  It wasn't the best of the season and it wasn't the worse.  It's one I will watch again.  I was close when I saw the guy sewing the guy up in the sheet.  I thought sailors and burial at sea, not pirates...lol.

[Hotchgirl18]

Odd. Very odd. Not the best. You know things are bad when you're demanding Reid back. He's the only hope the show has left. 

[ForeverAlone]

What the hell did I just watch? Freaking pirate play as a trigger for being a serial killer? This is the sort of illogical, weird, uninteresting cases that result when there is some moratorium on more realistic serial killer motives and actions. 

And you would hope parents would teach their kids to not talk to strangers, especially creepy looking strange men. But I guess not. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by ForeverAlone

[Annber03]

17 minutes ago, ForeverAlone said:

And you would hope parents would teach their kids to not talk to strangers, especially creepy looking strange men. But I guess not. 

I kept thinking about that, too, yeah. Tim's going on and on about how his parents will worry if he's out late and whatnot, but talking to strangers and making weird pirate blood pacts with adults you barely know? Yeah, that's fine. What could possibly go wrong there? 

[walnutqueen]

Aargh.

[ReidFan]

No no no walnutqueen.   That should be  AAAAaaarrrrrrrrgh.  ?

[walnutqueen]

5 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

No no no walnutqueen.   That should be  AAAAaaarrrrrrrrgh.  ?

Heh.  That sounds a little too enthusiastic for how I felt about this episode.   I was trying for a somewhat apathetic aargh.  ;-)

[Chaos Theory]

You know an episode is awful when I am wondering where Reid is and i hate Reid.    Well I hate Reid from the later half of the series anyway.   (No I won’t explain why)

I got bored with the episode and had to get to bed early so I didn’t bother watching the end so it might have improved.  Anyway...really stupid episode.

[ReidFan]

the CM twitter and FB were full of 'where's Reid?' // "When's Reid coming back?"// "IS Reid coming back!?" 

 

at least Rossi mentioned him. "I called Reid last night and asked him..."  (about the skewer through the nose thing)

 

11 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

A few things: 

2. Just as I feared, Prentiss 's interrogation skills see crap. Demote her.

3. What's with everyone calling each other by their first names? 

4. Pirates? 

2. I think she's doing just fine. i think it's a conscious effort (by the writers AND the actress)  to NOT be like Hotch. Because she'd get sh!t on for that, too.

3. THAT is something that's bothered me for Years! This is way more realistic. When people work this closely together and for this long, formality is gone except where necessary (in public, among higher ups etc). The familial feelings and camaraderie, the closeness between them lends itself to using each other's first names. Or nicknames. Recently retired spousal unit who was in law enforcement for 20 odd years always called his coworkers by either their first names or a nickname. Even their boss was 'Buck' as opposed to whatever his name is, I don't even know LOL! They address eachother by rank or whatever in front of others, but when working just amongst themselves, they would realistically be calling eachother 'Tara' or 'Matt' or 'Spencer'... Even Emily who is their boss, would probably be called Emily or Em amongst themselves and 'Chief' or 'Agent Prentiss' etc in front of others.

4. aaargh (I think walnutqueen covered that :D )

Edited January 4, 2018 by ReidFan

[hookedontv]

This episode underwhelmed and bored me. 

[JMO]

Rossi had a few good lines, something about the"'unsub trigger hall of fame", "I specialize in mood adjustments" and, most importantly, "I just spoke to Reid."  I do like the gray on him.

That was pretty much it.

[Hotchgirl18]

3 hours ago, ReidFan said:

the CM twitter and FB were full of 'where's Reid?' // "When's Reid coming back?"// "IS Reid coming back!?" 

 

at least Rossi mentioned him. "I called Reid last night and asked him..."  (about the skewer through the nose thing)

 

2. I think she's doing just fine. i think it's a conscious effort (by the writers AND the actress)  to NOT be like Hotch. Because she'd get sh!t on for that, too.

3. THAT is something that's bothered me for Years! This is way more realistic. When people work this closely together and for this long, formality is gone except where necessary (in public, among higher ups etc). The familial feelings and camaraderie, the closeness between them lends itself to using each other's first names. Or nicknames. Recently retired spousal unit who was in law enforcement for 20 odd years always called his coworkers by either their first names or a nickname. Even their boss was 'Buck' as opposed to whatever his name is, I don't even know LOL! They address eachother by rank or whatever in front of others, but when working just amongst themselves, they would realistically be calling eachother 'Tara' or 'Matt' or 'Spencer'... Even Emily who is their boss, would probably be called Emily or Em amongst themselves and 'Chief' or 'Agent Prentiss' etc in front of others.

4. aaargh (I think walnutqueen covered that :D )

Yeah, because if we have a nasty unsub, our warm and fuzzy feels unit chief is gonna go in there signing kum ba yah and Oh Happy Day with our unsub. We need someone stern in there now. She's not cutting it. If she wants to be all fuzzy and cozy, she either needs a new job or just needs to be a regular agent.  

Again, PIRATES?! PIRATES?! Good Lord, hopefully next one is better. KV is writing and hers are usually decent. 

11 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

What the hell did I just watch? Freaking pirate play as a trigger for being a serial killer? This is the sort of illogical, weird, uninteresting cases that result when there is some moratorium on more realistic serial killer motives and actions. 

And you would hope parents would teach their kids to not talk to strangers, especially creepy looking strange men. But I guess not. 

Yeah. Where the HELL were the parents. Can ANYTHING be a trigger for killing or are they making stuff up out of their ASS? I think it's the latter. This is where my boyfriend goes, oy vey. 

[illdoc]

Did you notice that the Unsub only wore the eyepatch in one scene (so that the stupid kid could comment that he looked like a pirate)? I don't think he wore it any other time. You'd think that if he wanted to be a pirate so much he would wear the patch the whole time (I assume that's why he poured bleach into his eye at the beginning---so he would have a legitimate reason to wear the patch).

[normasm]

illdoc, I think that's only true if you think this mess should have made sense...

[normasm]

I won't bother watching this again. Just my 2¢ that this was a sub-par episode, with poor writing, bad acting by the unsub, a wasting of Lou Diamond Phillips, and illogical medicine/science/psychology.

Oh, and the continuing Heroization of Matt, who appears to be poised to be all things Morgan-Hotch-Manly Righteous Angel of Justice, to the marginalization of everyone but Garcia. Did Luke have even 2 lines last night? Did Tara have maybe 4? Soon, I imagine Matt will show signs of being a genius, and then we won't need Reid any more.

[I did like Rossi's shout out to Reid, but that was the one bright spot. Oh, and the kid who played the stupid gullible boy was adorable. That is all.]

[Hotchgirl18]

3 minutes ago, normasm said:

I won't bother watching this again. Just my 2¢ that this was a sub-par episode, with poor writing, bad acting by the unsub, a wasting of Lou Diamond Phillips, and illogical medicine/science/psychology.

Oh, and the continuing Heroization of Matt, who appears to be poised to be all things Morgan-Hotch-Manly Righteous Angel of Justice, to the marginalization of everyone but Garcia. Did Luke have even 2 lines last night? Did Tara have maybe 4? Soon, I imagine Matt will show signs of being a genius, and then we won't need Reid any more.

[I did like Rossi's shout out to Reid, but that was the one bright spot. Oh, and the kid who played the stupid gullible boy was adorable. That is all.]

Then why don't we just rename it The Matt Show? What's the guy term for a Mary Sue? Oh, and where the SAM HELL were the kids parents this whole time?!  

Again, PIRATES. They're getting extremely lazy. 

[Annber03]

9 hours ago, ReidFan said:

at least Rossi mentioned him. "I called Reid last night and asked him..."  (about the skewer through the nose thing)

On that note, the bit with the needle coming towards the eye, and then the skewer through the nose, was all sorts of ew. At least they spared us watching the guy actually poke through the guy's nose :/. 

[ReidFan]

6 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

On that note, the bit with the needle coming towards the eye, and then the skewer through the nose, was all sorts of ew. At least they spared us watching the guy actually poke through the guy's nose :/. 

I have to admit, I laughed when Rossi said he'd called Reid...... pretty much confirming that 'Reid phoned it in'.... lol 

[idiotwaltz]

This episode would’ve made for absurd comedy except it wasn’t funny. I can’t believe someone actually wrote the line, “There is no crying when you’re a pirate” and other people approved it, then a whole bunch of other people produced this episode. 

This is right up there with the SVU episode where the bad guy was smuggling monkeys in basketballs. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by idiotwaltz

[Hotchgirl18]

3 hours ago, idiotwaltz said:

This episode would’ve made for absurd comedy except it wasn’t funny. I can’t believe someone actually wrote the line, “There is no crying when you’re a pirate” and other people approved it, then a whole bunch of other people produced this episode. 

This is right up there with the SVU episode where the bad guy was smuggling monkeys in basketballs. 

I feel sorry for the poor guy playing the unsub. And the whole cast too! 

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, idiotwaltz said:

This is right up there with the SVU episode where the bad guy was smuggling monkeys in basketballs. 

*Blinks*

Say what now? 

[ForeverAlone]

10 hours ago, idiotwaltz said:

This episode would’ve made for absurd comedy except it wasn’t funny. I can’t believe someone actually wrote the line, “There is no crying when you’re a pirate” and other people approved it, then a whole bunch of other people produced this episode. 

This is right up there with the SVU episode where the bad guy was smuggling monkeys in basketballs. 

SVU Basketball Monkeys is the height of campy crime procedurals and is a craptastic classic. Criminal Minds needs to work harder to achieve such heights of unintentional comedy. :) :) :) :) 

Edited January 6, 2018 by ForeverAlone

[Danielg342]

I thought about the "F"...but then I realized there were some good character moments, all by the guest cast. The story by the lake with the Sheriff lamenting about the town that was and the camaraderie between the kid and the UnSub was far more interesting than the case we did get.

Brad Hunt (who played Casey Peters) was fun to watch too.

That's about it.

I'm not going to get too much into the specifics of the case because the story hardly held my attention because, by now, the show's entrenched difficulties in understanding even basic storycraft are fully encased. Really, like so many episodes since the "gorn" phase of the show (since S11, thereabouts), we've been treated to episodes that are just 42 minute expositions without any real attempt at depth or twists or exploration, and this was no exception.

It was just a straight explanation by the team that this guy's got a pirate fantasy and that's why he's killing. End profile.

Ho-hum. I'm not sure these writers even try anymore.

I mean, why not mix things up a little? It seems like these writers understand the basic element of following through with the progression of an idea- so now that you've mastered "the simple", add a twist in there and reveal that the guy we've been following along thinking he's the real killer really is a feint and the killer is someone else.

You know, a red herring. Real mystery.

If I wanted to watch a 42-minute expose on a case, I'd watch a documentary. I watch Criminal Minds for the mystery, because that's more fun than watching something with an inevitable conclusion.

I thought for the longest time the Sheriff might have been the UnSub...he certainly was wistful enough about the town's misery, and he would have been a believable guy who'd be able to waltz into rich people's homes and throw them into pools.

The actual guy? Uh...I'd be calling the police the instant I see him. No way he'd be able to get within ten feet of my front door.

Which brings me to my other complaint- why no one thought he'd have anything to do with the murders is beyond me. It's not like he hid himself- certainly everyone by the lake would know who he is, and at least someone might think that when strange things start to happen, it may be because of the strange guy who lives in a tackle shop.

Not to mention this guy likely left a lot of trace evidence behind...why Sheriff Wistful couldn't apprehend him himself is beyond me.

One final note, for the Canadian viewers:

Designated Survivor, usually on at 10PM on CTV, doesn't return until February 28. So CM's stuck at 10PM on CTV likely until then.

[Annber03]

5 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I thought for the longest time the Sheriff might have been the UnSub...he certainly was wistful enough about the town's misery

I initially thought that, too, for that very reason. He seemed rather uncomfortable about the investigation in general. 

[Danielg342]

Just now, Annber03 said:

I initially thought that, too, for that very reason. He seemed rather uncomfortable about the investigation in general. 

Wouldn't it have been a fun twist if the Sheriff put the profile together, arrested Weird Guy at the Tackle Shop and the BAU then turn around and figure out it's really the Sheriff all along? Weird Guy is just too convenient to not use as a ruse.

[Hotchgirl18]

On 1/7/2018 at 1:23 AM, Danielg342 said:

I thought about the "F"...but then I realized there were some good character moments, all by the guest cast. The story by the lake with the Sheriff lamenting about the town that was and the camaraderie between the kid and the UnSub was far more interesting than the case we did get.

Brad Hunt (who played Casey Peters) was fun to watch too.

That's about it.

I'm not going to get too much into the specifics of the case because the story hardly held my attention because, by now, the show's entrenched difficulties in understanding even basic storycraft are fully encased. Really, like so many episodes since the "gorn" phase of the show (since S11, thereabouts), we've been treated to episodes that are just 42 minute expositions without any real attempt at depth or twists or exploration, and this was no exception.

It was just a straight explanation by the team that this guy's got a pirate fantasy and that's why he's killing. End profile.

Ho-hum. I'm not sure these writers even try anymore.

I mean, why not mix things up a little? It seems like these writers understand the basic element of following through with the progression of an idea- so now that you've mastered "the simple", add a twist in there and reveal that the guy we've been following along thinking he's the real killer really is a feint and the killer is someone else.

You know, a red herring. Real mystery.

If I wanted to watch a 42-minute expose on a case, I'd watch a documentary. I watch Criminal Minds for the mystery, because that's more fun than watching something with an inevitable conclusion.

I thought for the longest time the Sheriff might have been the UnSub...he certainly was wistful enough about the town's misery, and he would have been a believable guy who'd be able to waltz into rich people's homes and throw them into pools.

The actual guy? Uh...I'd be calling the police the instant I see him. No way he'd be able to get within ten feet of my front door.

Which brings me to my other complaint- why no one thought he'd have anything to do with the murders is beyond me. It's not like he hid himself- certainly everyone by the lake would know who he is, and at least someone might think that when strange things start to happen, it may be because of the strange guy who lives in a tackle shop.

Not to mention this guy likely left a lot of trace evidence behind...why Sheriff Wistful couldn't apprehend him himself is beyond me.

One final note, for the Canadian viewers:

Designated Survivor, usually on at 10PM on CTV, doesn't return until February 28. So CM's stuck at 10PM on CTV likely until then.

Yeah, and if I had a kid, no way I'd let pirate guy within an inch of my kid!! 

[TheGreenWave]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 2:58 PM, illdoc said:

I assume that's why he poured bleach into his eye at the beginning---so he would have a legitimate reason to wear the patch

So there was no actual explanation for that, right?  Admittedly, I just watched this last night and sort of half-watched it at that.  I thought I missed why he said he did that and was too lazy to go back and replay the scene (not that I wanted to look it anyway).

[Annber03]

Episode review:

https://www.spoilertv.com/2018/01/criminal-minds-submerged-review-pact.html

[mythoughtis]

Since he was stuck in adolescence and still wanted to do blood pirate pacts, he shouldnt have needed a reason to wear a patch . Kids don’t need reasons to wear a patch while pretending to be a pirate.  I thought the bleach was a sort of punishment for his actions, but I couldn’t decide Why. 

I also don’t get why he murdered people just so he could have them walk the plank.  Captain Hooks victims never actually got harmed in Peter Pan.   

[Hotchgirl18]

7 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Since he was stuck in adolescence and still wanted to do blood pirate pacts, he shouldnt have needed a reason to wear a patch . Kids don’t need reasons to wear a patch while pretending to be a pirate.  I thought the bleach was a sort of punishment for his actions, but I couldn’t decide Why. 

I also don’t get why he murdered people just so he could have them walk the plank.  Captain Hooks victims never actually got harmed in Peter Pan.   

Was captain hook a serial killer?

[Danielg342]

On 11/01/2018 at 8:56 PM, mythoughtis said:

I also don’t get why he murdered people just so he could have them walk the plank.  Captain Hooks victims never actually got harmed in Peter Pan.   

I hate to be snappy, but the obvious answer is "then we wouldn't have a Criminal Minds episode!"

I do agree with you- there was no reason for him to kill anyone. The writers just got lazy.

[Hotchgirl18]

In other news, water is wet. 

[Old Dog]

This just aired in the UK this week and I broke my rule of No Reid, No Watch. I won't be breaking that rule again. What a rubbish episode!

[ReidFan]

I told you!!! I told you this was the worst of this season !!?

[Old Dog]

Note to self: Listen to Riff!!

[normasm]

2 hours ago, Old Dog said:

Note to self: Listen to Riff!!

And JMO! And me!!!!!

[ReidFan]

isn't it funny how 'Reid is not in this episode' directly correlates with 'good god this episode sucked' ? See--but don't bother watching--Awake, Internal Affairs, Future Perfect, Seek and Destroy, Neon Terror, Submerged.

 

just sayin'  :D

[senin]

Old Dog, if you were going to break that rule, you should have watched  False Flag !! Really good episode even if there's no Reid in it. 

[Old Dog]

Thanks Senin - I'll see if I can get that on Catch Up TV. It'll take a bit for me to recover from the pirates though!

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, ReidFan said:

isn't it funny how 'Reid is not in this episode' directly correlates with 'good god this episode sucked' ? See--but don't bother watching--Awake, Internal Affairs, Future Perfect, Seek and Destroy, Neon Terror, Submerged.

 

just sayin'  :D

I liked "Internal Affairs", myself. And "False Flag" from this season was a good one, too. 

[ReidFan]

I hated Internal Affairs, but you'll notice I didn't include False Flag in that list. :)