Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[statsgirl]

It's like they're making Jay the anti-Barry. Everything that could possibly go wrong about the character has.  He's a coward, he's got degrees but barely does anything scientific, the relationship with Caitlyn is a black hole (and how I shipped Richard/Roz back in the day) and his function seems to be the team downer.  I'm expecting him to die any day now testing out something that will teach them how to save Barry later.

[kismet]

I think the majority of Jay's problems are that he is saddled with Caitlin, the black hole of chemistry & plot. And the Earth 2 hard on seems to have impacted the overall show. There's just too much Earth 2 stuff. And I might be the minority but Harry is actually bothering me this season. But overall, I was never enamored with Flash, so the fact that its hit or miss and can be boring is par for the course for me.

 ----

 

As for LOT, I think it was interesting that LL was so willing to send her sister tumbling through time with the high possibility of death. I know it's supposed to look like LL loves her sister so much she wants her to live in the light. But seriously, who just sends their sister with this random stranger from the future to save the world without giving some serious thought to it. OQ's reaction was perfect cautious but encouraging. Everybody else processed it and considered the risks. LL was just like peace out sis, I made you an outfit - go live or die in the light with some stylish pleather, no mask needed because let's face it LL barely cares if SL comes out of this new journey alive or not. At least this time if she dies in another decade, LL won't be burdened with having to dig SL up or drag her all across town out of some "sisterly" duty.

Edited January 23, 2016 by kismet

[Starfish35]

I think the majority of Jay's problems are that he is saddled with Caitlin, the black hole of chemistry & plot. And the Earth 2 hard on seems to have impacted the overall show. There's just too much Earth 2 stuff. And I might be the minority but Harry is actually bothering me this season.

*grin* I was actually thinking it was the other way around, that Caitlin's problem this season is being saddled with Jay. :) I enjoyed Caitlin a whole lot more last season than I have this season. Although in fairness I could probably say that about all the characters.

I do agree that there's too much Earth-2 stuff though. I wasn't bothered by Harry so much until the mid-season finale. I just am not up for another round of "Wells betrays Team Flash", although I understand why he's doing what he's doing.

[lemotomato]

I'd like to thank LoT for getting "Love Will Keep Us Together" stuck in my head all day today.

[statsgirl]

I've seen Danielle Panabaker have chemistry with someone; I think a big problem is that The Flash writers don't care about her, just as they don't care about Iris, unless she's servicing a Barry plot.

 

As for LOT, I think it was interesting that LL was so willing to send her sister tumbling through time with the high possibility of death. I know it's supposed to look like LL loves her sister so much she wants her to live in the light. But seriously, who just sends their sister with this random stranger from the future to save the world without giving some serious thought to it. OQ's reaction was perfect cautious but encouraging. Everybody else processed it and considered the risks. LL was just like peace out sis, I made you an outfit - go live or die in the light with some stylish pleather, no mask needed because let's face it LL barely cares if SL comes out of this new journey alive or not. At least this time if she dies in another decade, LL won't be burdened with having to dig SL up or drag her all across town out of some "sisterly" duty.

But isn't that So Laurel?  She decides to become a vigilante and beat up a guy who treated his girlfriend badly without learning any skills, she digs up Sara as soon as she hears about the Lazarus Pit without looking at how it affects Thea.

[popgoesculture]

 

I've seen Danielle Panabaker have chemistry with someone; I think a big problem is that The Flash writers don't care about her, just as they don't care about Iris, unless she's servicing a Barry plot.

 

I've liked DP in other stuff... but the writing of Caitlin does her acting style no favors. I'm actually trying to think of how I would describe Caitlin as a person other than "loves science" or "scientist." I think she's such a thinly written character that her other attributes just aren't there. She's a scientist that helps Barry and Cisco. That's it. That's all I've got, other than her love interests. At least with Iris (who gets NOTHING to do, basically, except play second fiddle to Joe and Barry's relationship), I know she's determined, curious, and stubborn. Caitlin is literally devoid of any personality for me. I think she's one of the most underwritten parts in the Flarrow universe (even Laurel with all her inconsistencies and the writers' attitude of "let's throw 900 things at a wall and see what sticks" gets more to do).  

[statsgirl]

We know she's a terrible kareoke singer and doesn't hold her alcohol well.  And I think early on she talked about how hard it is for her to open up to people and how Ronnie helped her with that.

When they give us anything decent, the character works.

 

It's a shame how much more they love Cisco than her.  Or how much more the Joe/Barry relationship and now Joe/Wally get than Joe/Iris.

[Serena]

I've seen Danielle Panabaker have chemistry with someone; I think a big problem is that The Flash writers don't care about her, just as they don't care about Iris, unless she's servicing a Barry plot.

She had great chemistry with the dude in Sky High. Granted, it was mostly the wrong dude... but whatever, it happened.

 

This is a clip from next week's Supergirl. Is it just me, or she has more chemistry with that dude in those 3 minutes than she had with Jimmy and Winn all season? I was also thinking about which ships really work in the Flarrow/LOT/Supergirl universe and basically... it's Olicity, and they stumbled into that by accident. Has a ship they wrote ON PURPOSE ever been great? Alex and Max Lord had some chemistry in the last episode, but that has no future, so... There's also some potential with Sara ships on LOT, but they could still eff it up.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Serena

[jaytee1812]

Well to be fair she is married to that dude! Although weirdly they had no onscreen chemistry is Glee.

I think Kara and Jimmy have decent chemistry if they stopped having her be so awkward around him. Winn just comes over as a future stalker.

[bijoux]

But seriously, who just sends their sister with this random stranger from the future to save the world without giving some serious thought to it. 

 

The same person who sent her sister off on a joy cruise with the League of Assassins with a smile on her face.

[statsgirl]

Some married couples are terrible when playing opposite each other but Melissa Benoist and Blake Jenner met when they were playing love interests to each other in Glee so I expect they'll have chemistry.  Especially since the point of this seems to be giving Kara yet another love interest.

I think Kara and Jimmy have decent chemistry if they stopped having her be so awkward around him.

I think they had decent chemistry in the first episodes but the writing has pulled them back so much to delay what seems to be getting together eventually that they're ruining it to the point where not only are their interactions awkward, Jimmy feels pointless to the show now.

 

After the Castle pilot, the execs told them to pull back on the chemistry between Castle and Beckett and the writers did.  But they still waited until season 2 to have Beckett get a temporary love interest, nor episode 1x11, and season 3 to have Castle try another relationship with his ex, not 1x05

[tv echo]

More of KC's interview with ComicBook.com (no spoilers) - posting here because it's about her LoT scene (fyi, the first part of her interview was previously posted in the Spoilers thread because it was about future Laurel scenes/storylines.)...

 

Katie Cassidy Describes Laurel's Encouraging Goodbye To Sara
Brandon Davis- 01/22/2016
http://comicbook.com/2016/01/22/katie-cassidy-describes-laurels-encouraging-goodbye-to-sara/

Ahead of her appearance at Heroes & Villains Fan Fest this weekend, ComicBook.com had the chance to speak to Laurel Lance actress Katie Cassidy about the encouraging farewell.
 

"I don't look at that scene between Laurel and Sara in Legends as a goodbye scene," Cassidy explains. "I actually look at that scene as introducing her and supporting her into her next chapter of her life. I don't look at it as a goodbye scene, I look at it as more of ... It's opening a whole new world for her, kind of sending her off and through ... I look at it as a very positive, honest, opening a lot of doors for her, and supporting her and encouraging her."
*  *  *
That's where the White Canary costume comes in. It was time to get out of the darkness, like many Arrow characters are struggling to do, and see the light. "Sara introduces her, gives her the idea, and says, you know, 'You don't need to be all your dark things. You don't need to be a dark person,'" Cassidy says. "She's like, 'I have a lot of darkness inside me as well,' since her ... that doesn't make you who you are. You can do what Oliver's done. You can be the light, and this hero that I know that you are. People look up to you, and you're doing good. You need to embrace that, and then Laurel introduces the White Canary suit to Sara. As far as, 'be the light', is basically what she says. I look at it more of like, sort of presenting a new chapter in her life, and journey, and more of a positive thing."

Edited January 23, 2016 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

What? That was a lot of circle talking. She really hates talking about storylines that are not hers. 

[bijoux]

From what I've read about LoT and the gifs that I've seen, there are two cool instances. One, the whole legends spiel being a hoax (and apparently this causes Ray to go back into his funk, which for some reason I find hilarious), and the professor from the crossover being the Hawks' son. That's a pretty cool tie in and explains his knowledge about Savage.

[Chaser]

What? That was a lot of circle talking. She really hates talking about storylines that are not hers. 

I think she just talks in circles, regardless of whose storyline she is talking about. That one was particularly bad.

[statsgirl]

I think KC builds up Laurel's purpose in those scenes.  It makes sense in terms of her Method style of acting.

[Sakura12]

What kind of method actor is she? A method actor would have all sorts of things to say about their characters motivations and emotions. Not talk in circles, looking like they are making up their answer while they are talking. 

 

Downer Ray was given a pep talk by Sara, one of the darkest characters on the show. For being a super genius he sure doesn't think outside the box. The professor being the Hawks son was interesting, the Hawks are still boring though. I think they really need to separate them, to see if they can fit with the rest of the team. 

[kismet]

From what I've read about LoT and the gifs that I've seen, there are two cool instances. One, the whole legends spiel being a hoax (and apparently this causes Ray to go back into his funk, which for some reason I find hilarious), and the professor from the crossover being the Hawks' son. That's a pretty cool tie in and explains his knowledge about Savage.

Ray's funk is hilarious. I totally get where he is coming from... everyone wonders about what their legacy will be. The guy died and nobody really cared... that's got to burn. They named a city after his suggestion, but it wasn't even cuz of him really it was just a promo stunt. It's only been one episode, but so far the way they are writing Ray actually makes me sincerely like him. It's crazy how decent writing and no need to create unnecessary drama can make a character more stomachable.

 

The professor turning out to be the kid of the Hawks felt a little elementary and hey look we wrote a twist... but it's getting a little lame with their need to somehow have a paternity reveal in every show. It's their go to twist that is getting a little played out. I wonder how many other secret children will come out of the woodwork when they need a twist in future episodes.

[bijoux]

Oh, I didn't really expect the Hawks to suddenly become interesting.

[nksarmi]

I liked the Professor being their child because it kind of explains why he would be interested in this rather obscure legend and about the only person on the planet who knows about Vandal Savage.  It's not something I want them to use frequently, but in this one instance - it worked for me.

 

That doesn't mean Oliver's kid is working for me on Arrow.  And to me - the worst part about Oliver's kid is that he seems to be just a normal kid.  I mean if they were going to do this - I wish that a) they hadn't done it this season and b) they hadn't made it something to come between Oliver and Felicity and c) since they are so bad at math anyway - they made him a little bit older and made him meta.

 

I know not everyone would have liked that, but to me the mom showing up and asking Oliver for help because his son is a punk teen who is getting in trouble with his meta abilities and it being something Oliver and Felicity face together in say the last season of the show is something I could have - maybe - enjoyed.  This is just kind of awful with no upside that I can identify.  It appears as if it's being used to break up Oliver and Felicity in a season where Diggle is dealing with his brother, Team Arrow is facing a magic-wielding villain who wants to destroy the city, Felicity is paralyzed, and somebody is going to die.  I don't see anyway they can give this plot line any proper amount of consideration that doesn't end up looking like this kid is getting screwed.  Especially when you contrast it to how I'm sure Joe and Wally are going to end up getting along.  And Wally is an adult!

[kismet]

Just finished watching this weeks ep of Supergirl. Apparently shutting off public TVs that everyone is watching because of embarrassing family details being talked about must be a Berlanti/AK thing because it happened in this episode. So maybe they think it's not a rude thing to do... Who knows?

 

Pretty meh episode, but at least I got to see Henry Czerny on my screen again. I've always loved him since The Tudors and he was phenomenal in Revenge. I do give credit to the Flarrowverse/Berlanti super universes they do know how to cast amazing talent. I just wish they would find better ways to not squander the talent.

[AyChihuahua]

What? That was a lot of circle talking. She really hates talking about storylines that are not hers. 

At this point I just think KC is not all that bright. She's also pretty incurious, which IMO has a lot of characteristics in common with not being very bright. 

[Primal Slayer]

Not giving good interview doesn't mean not all that bright. 

[wonderwall]

I agree... Not giving good interviews doesn't really show whether a person is bright or not... It could possibly mean that they're just nervous or just don't do well in those scenarios. Either that or KC just never really prepares which is a whole different story. 

 

Regardless, I feel like she should be more self aware of her strengths and weaknesses. Interviews are obviously her weakness which is why I wish she prepared better and practiced more. I mean it's what I do when I have to give presentations. Practice really does make perfect which is why I usually practice about 30+ times before them... That and running her answers by her PR crew. 

 

I used to really like KC before Arrow, she's the reason I tuned in in the first place, but her interviews are a big reason why I don't anymore. It's a shame, really.

[Sakura12]

It's not that she wasn't clear. I got what she was saying. It was just she was saying the same thing 20 times in different ways which then made it a confusing mess. KC does suck at interviews, you'd think she be prepared for the questions she's going to get asked though. A question about Sara is a given since that's practically been her main storyline since she's been on the show. And for being a method actor she sure doesn't have any insight into her character or the show. I've seen guest characters talk more in depth about their characters then she does. 

[nksarmi]

I try to avoid KC interviews - it actually helps me like Laurel better as a character.  So does having a head canon for the Laurel character which does not match perfectly with the show but it not often contradicted (she could still be training with Wildcat who I do NOT believe is dead! Or she could be using Merlyn's jet pack to train with Barbara Gordon on the weekends - Birds of Prey has to get started someway!).  But I do have to make sure KC does not contradict my head canon in her interviews - thus why I avoid them. :)

Edited January 23, 2016 by nksarmi

[wonderwall]

I try to avoid KC interviews - it actually helps me like Laurel better as a character.  So does having internal canon for the Laurel character which I have to make sure KC does not contradict in her interviews - thus why I avoid them. :)

 

Liking Laurel definitely would make it easier for me to watch the show... But damn. I just can't seem to muster up the energy ;)

[nksarmi]

Liking Laurel definitely would make it easier for me to watch the show... But damn. I just can't seem to muster up the energy ;)

 

Laurel feels like an non-entity on the show these days.  I don't know how people find it in them to hate her anymore, but I do agree with everyone who says if the character is going to stick around - they really need to figure out something to do with her.  I know this is Arrow and everything, but if Laurel is alive at the end of the season, I so need Earth 2 Hellena to come to Starling and I want to see her, Laurel, and Felicity run a mission where they save Oliver and Diggle and then a ton of future references to "Where's Laurel?" "She's off with Huntress.  I'll ping them." "No, it's ok, I think Thea and I can handle this one." etc.....

[Sakura12]

Laurel feels like an non-entity on the show these days.  I don't know how people find it in them to hate her anymore, but I do agree with everyone who says if the character is going to stick around - they really need to figure out something to do with her.  I know this is Arrow and everything, but if Laurel is alive at the end of the season, I so need Earth 2 Hellena to come to Starling and I want to see her, Laurel, and Felicity run a mission where they save Oliver and Diggle and then a ton of future references to "Where's Laurel?" "She's off with Huntress.  I'll ping them." "No, it's ok, I think Thea and I can handle this one." etc.....

 

They should do that anyway, just not call Laurel. They already do that for most of the big things that happen. 

Edited January 24, 2016 by Sakura12

[nksarmi]

They should do that anyway, just not call Laurel. They already do for most of the big things that happen. 

 

Exactly. Oliver tells her nothing (and I don't really know why he should).  When Diggle does, it feels false.  I mean, I like them on screen together - but I isn't "earned" as they like to say.  The only dynamic on the show that feels even semi-earned is Laurel and Thea and only because a) we can pretend like Laurel was there for Thea at some point when Oliver disappeared (not shown but we can pretend it) and b) they share a living space.  And honestly, that just isn't enough.  I'm just saying they might as well give her a "comic book" reason to be off-screen and tell me she's off laying the foundation for Birds of Prey (which as I understand it is when BC is at her best anyway).

Edited January 24, 2016 by nksarmi

[wonderwall]

Laurel feels like an non-entity on the show these days.  I don't know how people find it in them to hate her anymore, but I do agree with everyone who says if the character is going to stick around - they really need to figure out something to do with her.  I know this is Arrow and everything, but if Laurel is alive at the end of the season, I so need Earth 2 Hellena to come to Starling and I want to see her, Laurel, and Felicity run a mission where they save Oliver and Diggle and then a ton of future references to "Where's Laurel?" "She's off with Huntress.  I'll ping them." "No, it's ok, I think Thea and I can handle this one." etc.....

 

My feelings for Laurel are quite.... delicate. They change all the time. Usually I'm neutral when she's in the background. But then she goes ahead and does something or says something stupid like she did in 410 and it just makes me really dislike her all over again for the rest of the week until I watch the next episode and go back to being neutral... Does that make sense? 

 

I'm on that fine line between apathy and dislike and can fall on either side on a moments notice depending on what she does that week.

 

After 4 years I just don't think Laurel's a good character which is why I think the show wastes a lot of time with her. If it's a main character that's supposed to die, I'd want it to be her because she's a non-entity. I don't want other characters with actual promise to suffer because she has her special comic book counterpart. I just find that incredibly unfair because the fact of the matter is, is that the writers wrote Laurel into a corner and that's not the character's fault. But if her future is only doing a couple of BoP episodes, is that really worth it to keep the character around? I don't think so. 

[Morrigan2575]

Maybe take this to the Laurel thread?

[statsgirl]

I know not everyone would have liked that, but to me the mom showing up and asking Oliver for help because his son is a punk teen who is getting in trouble with his meta abilities and it being something Oliver and Felicity face together in say the last season of the show is something I could have - maybe - enjoyed.  This is just kind of awful with no upside that I can identify.  It appears as if it's being used to break up Oliver and Felicity in a season where Diggle is dealing with his brother, Team Arrow is facing a magic-wielding villain who wants to destroy the city, Felicity is paralyzed, and somebody is going to die.  I don't see anyway they can give this plot line any proper amount of consideration that doesn't end up looking like this kid is getting screwed.  Especially when you contrast it to how I'm sure Joe and Wally are going to end up getting along.  And Wally is an adult!

I wanted William to be a metahuman ever since that awful stuff in the cross-over episode.  At least that would be a plus for the show instead of the soap opera we're all expecting.

 

Of course Joe and Wally are going to get along; AK is obsessed with Daddy/son plots.

 

Just finished watching this weeks ep of Supergirl. Apparently shutting off public TVs that everyone is watching because of embarrassing family details being talked about must be a Berlanti/AK thing because it happened in this episode. So maybe they think it's not a rude thing to do... Who knows?

I think it made sense here because the news announcer was going to reveal that the villain Toyman is Winn's father.  I can perfectly understand Winn not wanting the whole office to know that.  Back in Arrow 1x01, it was old news.

[nksarmi]

Maybe take this to the Laurel thread?

But...but...I don't want to go in there! :)

[tv echo]

Very positive review of the LoT premiere - with a positive mention of Arrow! ...

Legends of Tomorrow is the latest addition to the ongoing string of primetime cape and tight thrillers from the CW network and co-creators Greg Berlanti, Andrew Kreisberg, and Marc Guggenheim. Following the success of both Arrow and The Flash (Geoff Johns co-created the latter), the creative team clearly has a plan, and boy, does it work. It's actually pretty simple, really. Arrow raises the maturity bar for DC's primetime treatment of its masked vigilantes, and then introduces The Flash. Barry Allen (Flash) disappears for a little while, and then reappears, this time in his own series. Ever wise, DC and CW brass prompt numerous crossovers between the two, building anticipation on the small screen for the ultimate prize (a Justice League movie). They then simultaneously introduce second stringers and fan favorites (Firestorm, The Atom, Black Canary) and patiently await the Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman trifecta big screen box office blowout this March with Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (even though the two universes aren't technically connected, with different actors playing the roles on TV and in the movies). Yet, none of the small-screen offerings feel anticipatory; they're all fully realized and very well done productions with lives of their own. Legends is no exception....

DC’s Legends of Tomorrow
Jan 23, 2016 By Zach Hollwedel
http://www.undertheradarmag.com/reviews/dcs_legends_of_tomorrow/

[Chaser]

CP is going to be Whose Line. Aisha Tyler and her posted on Twitter.

[bijoux]

So judging by the ending of LoT pilot, supervillains from the Flarrow universe more often than not have the same rhetoric. Tear it down to build it back up. It seems to be Savage's maxim, and it was certainly Malcolm's and now Darhk's. Maybe it was Ra's' as well, but I honestly wouldn't know anymore. The only one who definitely didn't give a shit was Slade. Is it the same on The Flash?

[bijoux]

Also, Stein reminded me of Felicity drugging Oliver. Could be fun if they ran across each other and he was all, Oh, Miss Smoak, how lovely to see you again! With Ray standing right there all, Oh, come on! Tell me you've just been yanking my chain about not remembering me.

[tv echo]

KEVIN SMITH HINTS DC MIGHT CONSIDER A TV/MOVIE MULTIVERSE CROSSOVER
Sat, January 23rd, 2016 at 2:28pm PST
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/kevin-smith-hints-dc-might-consider-tv-movie-multiverse-crossover

... But one segment that Smith recorded with DC Comics Chief Creative Officer Geoff Johns was cut from the special, and it is one that should be of particular interest to "Flash" fans.
 

... Smith was among those who believed Gustin would have made a worthy big-screen Justice Leaguer, and while discussing his experience hosting the special on his "Fat Man on Batman" podcast, he mentioned an exchange he had with Johns that left him believing that Grant Gustin's Flash and Ezra Miller's might be racing on a collision course.
 

"We did a piece where we talked about -- I don’t know how much I’m supposed to say because they cut it out," Smith said on the podcast. "But the idea [came up] of, 'Hey man, DC is known for nothing if not a multiverse,' so at which point I was like [to Johns], 'Could they fucking crossover?' And he was like, 'Ahh.' So doors are being left open and stuff like that."

Edited January 25, 2016 by tv echo

[KirkB]

So judging by the ending of LoT pilot, supervillains from the Flarrow universe more often than not have the same rhetoric. Tear it down to build it back up. It seems to be Savage's maxim, and it was certainly Malcolm's and now Darhk's. Maybe it was Ra's' as well, but I honestly wouldn't know anymore. The only one who definitely didn't give a shit was Slade. Is it the same on The Flash?

 

 

 

Not exactly. On the Flash, the first villain (Reverse Flash) had the main motivation of wanting Barry to get faster so he could go back home to the future. He just killed people when they got in his way. The new villain, Zoom, he seems to like to consume the speed force from speedsters, and doesn't appear to have any motivation beyond "Crush, Kill, Destroy".

Edited January 25, 2016 by KirkB

[bijoux]

Thanks, KirkB. That's a point in The Flash's favor. At least they're not beating on the same drum.

[AyChihuahua]

Supergirl's superclosetalking her, I think, RL husband, and it's working for her. Look, chemistry!

[tv echo]

Damian Darhk will be appearing on this week's LoT (per the clarified spoiler rules, official publicity stills are not considered spoilers)...

 

SAVAGE FORMS A DARHK ALLIANCE IN NEW "LEGENDS OF TOMORROW" STILLS
Brett White   19 hours ago
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/savage-forms-darhk-alliance-new-legends-tomorrow-stills

Edited January 26, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

Is Kendra on the prowl for highest waisted jeans on the planet?

 

What's the deal with Captain Cold, is he a meta or just a regular thief with the cold gun? I'm curious as to how he doesn't get hot in that winter coat he's (almost) always wearing.

[Delphi]

Jesus, do I even need to watch the episode with a description like that?

[tarotx]

 

Sara's outfit looks so silver here. She should be the silver Canary. 

[bijoux]

Looked more silver than white in the clips I saw of the first episode as well.

[Sakura12]

Calling her Silver Canary would've saved them the whitewashing backlash as well. There's a Jade Canary, so any color would've worked. 

[tarotx]

Yeah it's definitely not white. But to me it usually looks gray and Gray Canary just sounds sad. But in this picture it looks silver so I mentioned it.

Looked more silver than white in the clips I saw of the first episode as well.

[Starfish35]

Honestly, apologies to those that like it, but now that I've seen the White Canary outfit in action, I think it's a total fug (with apologies to the Fug Girls). The color makes poor Caity Lotz look totally washed out, and it's just such an ugly dirty looking white. I appreciate that they did away with the increasingly exaggerated cleavage of her BC outfit, but otherwise....I am not a fan.