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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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FurryFury

FurryFury

I'll start with Katherine Kane who when introduced was...well. nothing. It wasn't until they had long discarded of her character that they reintroduced her as both a Jewish and lesbian woman. Which, as far as I'm concerned, very good for both communities. Serves better as paramour of Batman. Is stronger, more rounded character for it.

 

If she didn't have any specific characteristics when she was introduced, making her Jewish and lesbian is not a retcon, it's simply rounding her out and giving additional characterization. With Iceman, he has had quite a few heterosexual relationships, AFAK (I definitely remember him being straight in the movie). But then, comic books thrive on retcons (which why I don't like them so much), so maybe it's more acceptable in the medium. I do know I never bought Willow from Buffy suddenly becoming lesbian (not bi, lesbian) after her boyfriend cheated on her, despite her being shown to be attracted/in love with several men prior to that. It just didn't make sense to me.

 

Cloud wasn't really a person at all but a sentient nebula who had taken human form for some reason.

 

There was a character named Cloud somewhere in the comics? It sounds pretty hilarious for this Final Fantasy fan.

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Cloud. I actually remember this story line because I was big into the Defenders at the time. And while not great in the representation department it was even weirder than it sounds because Cloud wasn't really a person at all but a sentient nebula who had taken human form for some reason. Back in its real form it later briefly reunited with Moondragon and her girlfriend Phyla-Vell as they were traveling through space.

Thank You! I couldn't find it anywhere but I remembered reading about it when investigating Moondragon because of upcoming Infinity Wars.  I never read the Defenders, I only know of Adam Warlock and Moondragon because of Infinity Crusade.  

Edited by Morrigan2575
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MarkHB

MarkHB

I haven't taken the time to really watch that Man of Steel video yet, but the clips of him in the recent trailer at least appear to put him in bright, sunny light... Its the Batman scenes that are appropriately dark.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

"Titans" show has been renamed to "Blackbirds".

 

The show is now entitled “Blackbirds” and the shooting is expected to start in the summer, in Toronto. With the upfronts coming soon (TNT is on May 13th), more information should come out. Will Roy Harper/Speedy (Colton Haynes) be a part of it after leaving Arrow? It’s very likely…

 

Not sure about the legitimacy of the source, the last line especially sounds dubious. Or maybe it's just me and my hate for Colton Haynes who is a sucky actor playing a boring character. Well, at least Roy's not the lead of this group, as far as I know.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Um, not sure how much I buy the idea of them taking Roy Harper/Colton Haynes from Arrow for Blackbrids (Why the name change? Titans made the most sense given the characters involved).

 

Could they take Roy Harper (Arsenal/Speedy/Red Arrow)?  Sure, but I don't know if they'd actually take Colton or that Colton would agree to go, it's not like sports where you can get traded between teams, pretty sure Colton has to be presented with a brand new contract.  

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I'm not actually a mod of that forum (or of this one), but I wouldn't anticipate a name change to happen until any change to the show title is officially announced.

No worries, I was just joking.

 

Personally, I liked Titans, I don't even get how this new name applies to the group.

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KirkB

KirkB

(edited)

I know there have been characters who have gone from one show to another on the same network, but has there ever been a character who has gone from one show to another on a completely different network? Are TNT and the CW owned by the same people? If they're not I don't see how it would even be possible.

Edited by KirkB
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Lokiberry

Lokiberry

(edited)

I know there have been characters who have gone from one show to another on the same network, but has there ever been a character who has gone from one show to another on a completely different network? Are TNT and the CW owned by the same people? If they're not I don't see how it would even be possible.

I believe TNT and the CW are both owned by Warner Bros. I don't think this show is going to want CH as Arsenal, though. It's going to have Nightwing.

Edited by Lokiberry
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nksarmi

nksarmi

Let's see if I can remember how this goes....

 

TNT is owned by Turner which is a subsidiary of Time Warner who also owns WB.  WB and CBS co-own CW.  So yea it would almost work because TNT is essentially owned by half of the CW.


I believe TNT and the CW are both owned by Warner Bros. I don't think this show is going to want CH as Arsenal, though. It's going to have Nightwing.

But the last I saw Nightwing was the only male listed for that cast so Colton/Roy/Arsenal could be added in as a guest to bring fans over.  However, I think it's more likely he will dedicate this time to guest starring on Arrow and the new Spin-Off. 

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MarkHB

MarkHB

I know there have been characters who have gone from one show to another on the same network, but has there ever been a character who has gone from one show to another on a completely different network? Are TNT and the CW owned by the same people? If they're not I don't see how it would even be possible.

 

TNT, and all the Turner channels, are owned by Time-Warner, which is also a half-owner (with CBS) of The CW.  So far as the question of "a character who has gone from one show to another on a completely different network," does Richard Belzer's John Munch count?

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

 

TNT, and all the Turner channels, are owned by Time-Warner, which is also a half-owner (with CBS) of The CW.  So far as the question of "a character who has gone from one show to another on a completely different network," does Richard Belzer's John Munch count?

Yes it's do-able if the actor is interested but it would totally require a new contract, which seems to get overlooked by fans who seem to think they can just trade actors/characters like you would in sports (and even that's not always possible).

 

But the last I saw Nightwing was the only male listed for that cast so Colton/Roy/Arsenal could be added in as a guest to bring fans over.  However, I think it's more likely he will dedicate this time to guest starring on Arrow and the new Spin-Off.

 

Hawk and Dove are on new Titans/Blackbird show, so there are already 2 male characters planned for Titans.

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MarkHB

MarkHB

Latino Review isn't the most reliable source, but even if this is true it sounds like she'll just be one of a string of inmates seen in Belle Reve. No real part in the story.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Latino Review isn't the most reliable source, but even if this is true it sounds like she'll just be one of a string of inmates seen in Belle Reve. No real part in the story.

Isn't that the same thing with The Joker?  I think he's only a cameo in the movie but I'm not sure.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I'm finding DC has real trouble writing female characters, Arrow, The Flash and Gotham have all disappointed me in the writing of women.

 

While Marvel is doing an amazing job with Peggy Carter, Karen Page and Claire Temple from Daredevil, and say what you want about AoS but their female characters are hardly ever used as damsels in distress. All those women save themselves or get themselves out of their bindings, even the non trained fighters managed to do that. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Oliver's still going 9 years from now, bless him. That knee must be hell.

 

Can't wait for Barry to see that he marries Iris and start doodling her married name on his notebook. So, are The Atom and Hawkgirl also from Starling City, or is that just awkward wording? No way that spin-off takes place in Starling, right?

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

I hate the predestined BecauseComics! love interest stuff in shows like these.  Unfortunately, poor GG has zero romantic/sexual chemistry with any of the females over on The Flash, but I think that there is no chance that Iris is not endgame over there.  I truly get when people complain about the romance stuff on Arrow because I just don't care about any of that over on The Flash, and it's become such an unpleasant chore to watch, but I kind of want to see how the Reverse Flash stuff turns out, so I'm torn!

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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kismet

kismet

I hate the predestined BecauseComics! love interest stuff in shows like these.  Unfortunately, poor GG has zero romantic/sexual chemistry with any of the females over on The Flash, but I think that there is no chance that Iris is not endgame over there.  I truly get when people complain about the romance stuff on Arrow because I just don't care about any of that over on The Flash, and it's become such an unpleasant chore to watch, but I kind of want to see how the Reverse Flash stuff turns out, so I'm torn!

Im with you on the romance angles on Flash. Its just too irrelevant to the stuff that is going on with Reverse Flash which is way more exciting. Plus you're right GG has little to no romantic chemistry with any of the ladies on the Flash. His best chemistry is with his 2 fathers, which actually makes way more sense to his hero journey, the reverse flash & trying to solve his mother's murder. They should focus on that and let the romance chill for a few seasons.

 

At least on Arrow, the romance angles work and there is chemistry between the actors. Not just O/F, but Roy/Thea, D/L, O/S1 ladies (minus LL), LL/TM all had chemistry, so it wasn't as much of a chore to watch. And the writers naturally blended the relationships into the script. Also up until this season, romance did not seem like a main focus of the show. It kinda just existed alongside all the other action & drama. And so much of Oliver's hero journey does revolve around his relationships & family as he receovers from his time on the island. Barry doesn't have the same hero journey as OQ. So its not that his relationships are not as important, its just they don't need to be such a focus on s1. On the Flash they are constantly trying to get people to buy into the endgame of Iris/BA despite the fact they have little romantic chemistry. They are wasting the chemistry Eddie & Iris actually have. I think the show would have been better off letting Iris stay with Eddie and then a few seasons down the road have her realize her feelings for Barry. That would have been beliavable. You don't just jump from moving in with your boyfriend to discovering all these hidden feelings for your almost brother within a few weeks. The Flash just seems very eager to get whatever they want when they want it. They are very impatient, whereas Arrow has no problem delaying & torturing its characters/audiences as it waits for plots to play out.

 

In some ways when I watch the Flash I feel like its written by overactive hyper pre-teens jonesing for everything shiny & fun as they ping pong around the room, whereas Arrow is written more by angsty teenagers trying to find meaning in the tragic world that is their life.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

 

In some ways when I watch the Flash I feel like its written by overactive hyper pre-teens jonesing for everything shiny & fun as they ping pong around the room

Perfect description for Andrew Kreisberg!

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I truly get when people complain about the romance stuff on Arrow because I just don't care about any of that over on The Flash, and it's become such an unpleasant chore to watch, but I kind of want to see how the Reverse Flash stuff turns out, so I'm torn!

 

 

I'm the same, haha. 

 

I don't find the romance stuff a chore necessarily, it's just pretty gross to me at this point with everyone lying to Iris. Other than that I'm just not invested in who ends up with who, so I watch it but I find myself zoning out. Honestly though I don't think that's a romance problem for me with The Flash - I'm just really not invested in any of it at all. It's entertaining when I do tune in, and I find myself curious about stuff (like, I'll watch the next 4 eps, I'm sure), but if I missed it it wouldn't really bother me, which is completely opposite of how I feel about Arrow. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

I'm still enjoying Flash quite a bit. I suppose it helps that I'm not terribly fannish about it though. That said, Sakura12's not wrong about the treatment of the female characters, so....yeah. Caitlin's been sidelined ever since Ronnie left, and Iris....well we all know what's going on with Iris. :( But on the whole, it isn't actively depressing me like Arrow is, so I'm counting it as a win.

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kismet

kismet

The lying to Iris needs to stop. That is just utter bullshit. The one thing I like about Oliver lying on Arrow, is that you could tell it was out of care/concern to protect them. He never willingly told anyone without it being absolutely necessary. He did it save Dig's life & his own life. When he told Roy it was to stop a bomb detonation and reach Roy through his Mirakuru haze. Everybody else either figured it out on their own or had a villain tell them or force him to tell like what happened with Thea. Barry on the other hand just walks around telling almost everyone but Iris. They say its to protect her, but leaving her isolated from the truth only puts her a greater risk. What also really bothers me is Joe is really pushing to keep her in the dark, which is just really horrible for a father to do, esp when they are so close. Its just not good characterization and pretty poor plot device to keep her in the dark.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I always paid attention to the Wayne Industry/Queen Consolidated merger - but I've never seen a close up of the article that includes Iris' name or Atom, GA, and Hawkgirl.  Has that always been there?  If so, that was some pretty awesome planning from the launch of Flash. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

No, this is a different article.  I forget what it used to say but it definitely did not include the Green Arrow or the Reverse Flash.  Somewhere in some thread I actually wrote out everything I could read in that first article.  The second column was a repeat of stuff in the first column and was mostly nonsense and not applicable to the show.  I do remember that at least. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I'm surprised Black Canary isn't included in the list of heroes helping the Flash in that article. Weird.

 

I'd also love to read what was written about the Queen Inc merger. 

Edited by Guest
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Guest

Guest

It's a bunch of stuff about DNA. COMPLETELY WORTHLESS INFORMATION

 

DAMN. I was hoping to see something about Felicity being the VP because you just know it's her decision to merge with Wayne Tech.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

Barry gets to marry his pseudo-sister. Awesome. Except... more gross. I would pay to find out which of these showrunners gets off on incest, because there's way too much of it dancing around these two shows.

 

And from the episodes I've bothered with, Grant Gustin is about as convincing a romantic lead as Laurel Lance is a badass vigilante. He and the woman playing Iris had some great sibling chemistry, but there was nothing sexual at all, that I could see (except for Barry probably checking out her ass every time she turned her back).

 

But I'm not really fussed because The Flash isn't really interesting or entertaining enough to really care about what happens on it. It's the epitome of forgettable television.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

DAMN. I was hoping to see something about Felicity being the VP because you just know it's her decision to merge with Wayne Tech.

 

Pfft. Felicity's not the VP, she's the CEO. I'm betting she starts Queen Inc. using her married name but still goes by Smoak professionally. 

 

Sorry, I wandered into my own fanfic world there for a second.

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