Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[BkWurm1]

Quote

(Yes, James Bond is fourth, but still.) 

No one is ever going to convince me that SuperSpy! is not a genre film .  That franchise was not built on realism of any kind, lol.  

Edited June 26, 2017 by BkWurm1

[quarks]

.

Edited June 26, 2017 by quarks
posted before finishing.

[quarks]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

I didn't change any goalpost. Again, I always meant hour-long dramas. I don't think the show is comparable to a news show or sitcom; networks treat each slightly differently.

And I didn't set any number of years. I did choose to stick to shows that have lasted longer than Arrow (the oldest of the CW/DC shows) in my list; sorry if that confused you. But I did also make a point using the shows that had lasted at least 10 seasons.
 

Last word on this:

1. Your original post said "long running TV shows." I, not you, was the one who eliminated news, sports, late night, and religious programming. I also eliminated British programming (Doctor Who and Red Dwarf), Star Trek (which had two spinoffs lasting longer than Arrow, plus the assorted films and the other four spinoffs), cable (which eliminated Stargate SG-1, Power Rangers and other shows) and (initially) shows no longer on the air.

2. I wasn't confused. The original conversation was about whether or not Flash would last for ten years. You changed that to shows that have been on the air for seven seasons, because without adding NCIS: LA, Blue Bloods, and Hawaii Nine-0, you didn't have an argument. (Keep in mind that if we stick to hour long shows lasting ten years or more, yes, I forgot Criminal Minds - but we also both left out X-Files. With X-Files, it's even - three procedurals, three non procedurals. If we go back to scripted shows, the non-procedurals outnumber the procedurals.). Now you're switching the goalposts again, claiming that you meant "lasted longer than Arrow." Not what you said in your post, which just went with "longest running primetime network series."  

Arrow just finished its fifth season and is heading into its sixth season, which means that "shows lasting longer than Arrow" should include shows that finished season 6 and are heading into season 7.  That would include Scandal, X-Files and Once Upon a Time - none of which are procedurals, and one of which is continuing after dumping four main cast members.

I will add that if we're going with "shows that lasted longer than Arrow" the procedural argument flops entirely - non procedurals considerably outnumber the procedurals historically, and there's several examples of genre shows six seasons or more - off the top of my head, Lost, Charmed, The Vampire Diaries, Buffy The Vampire Slayer, just off the top of my head, plus of course Stargate: SG-1, Eureka and other cable/syndicated shows, including Star Trek the Next Generation and Deep Space Nine.

 

 

Quote

Debatable; I restricted it to that because I think that recent TV history is a more accurate predictor than show and network behavior from a generation ago, because of the changing TV landscape.

[/prohat]

But the changing TV landscape is precisely why Flash has a chance of going for ten years - it's thriving in this landscape.  Same, frankly, with Supernatural, which isn't getting renewed because of its impressive numbers, but because its fanbase continues to invest financially in the show, buying streaming services, Blu-ray/DVDs and ancillary merchandise. The same is true for Flash.  Sure, it dropped in the demo/live views this year, along with all of the other CW shows. But it's extremely popular on Netflix, continues to sell Blu-Ray/DVDs, does well internationally, and although the ancillary sales are lower than Arrow's (who would have thought? Seriously - who would have thought?).  Flash and Arrow bring in enough revenue that the CW didn't even need to bother to showcase the shows at the upfronts - the shows are profitable without considering ad buys.

And again, recent TV history is giving us not one, but two genre shows that have lasted more than ten years. 

 

Quote

I simply compared Flash to what are the current longest running, comparable shows. Thanks for the extra analysis.

 

Except that the only current, longest running comparable shows to Flash are Supernatural and (for different reasons) American Dad.  And not because of the procedural/non-procedural difference, but because Flash, like Supernatural, is working on an entirely different revenue model than NCIS, Law and Order, Criminal Minds and Grey's Anatomy. 

(And, to be fair, Meet the Press.)  

Anyway, let's move on to Danielle Panabaker's wedding dress. It's gorgeous!

[BkWurm1]

7 minutes ago, quarks said:

Anyway, let's move on to Danielle Panabaker's wedding dress. It's gorgeous!

I loved how they managed to make it look really light weight but also at the same time fluffy and flowy.   She looks so happy and pretty.  

[Trini]

5 hours ago, quarks said:

1. Your original post said "long running TV shows." I, not you, was the one who eliminated news, sports, late night, and religious programming.

Don't let my editing mistake (which I corrected minutes later) trip you up; I always meant dramas. I didn't change my argument.
 

5 hours ago, quarks said:

2. I wasn't confused. The original conversation was about whether or not Flash would last for ten years. You changed that to shows that have been on the air for seven seasons, ...

If you think me mentioning other shows that have also had long runs means I changed the conversation into something different, then ... okay. That was not my intention. I think those are relevant examples compare and discuss if we're guessing how long the show could last.

 

5 hours ago, quarks said:

But the changing TV landscape is precisely why Flash has a chance of going for ten years - it's thriving in this landscape. ..

And again, recent TV history is giving us not one, but two genre shows that have lasted more than ten years. 

You keep trying to convince me when I don't think you're wrong? It could last 10 seasons. Or not.

----------

Here, have a joke!

http://textsfromsuperheroes.com/post/162299781455/mannequin

[tv echo]

Vlog 9 - Supanova Comic Con & Gaming Perth 2017 - Dean Cain
Published on Jun 25, 2017, by AccessReel

 

[Cleanqueen]

While I don't necessarily care for an olicity crossover wedding, I think Olicity getting married in the crossover makes more sense because Olicity is the more popular couple and Oliver and felicity have a more personal connection to a lot of the main heroes from all these shows. 

I do want the olicity wedding to be it's own event and occur on Arrow and they can have guest appearances by Barry, Ray, Sara, Cisco and so on.

 

Also, please let us not kid ourselves and claim Katie Cassidy is back as Black Siren because she was such a hit with the audience and the producers thought having a wack villain would be so cool as series regular next season. 

[Primal Slayer]

Yes we know everything involving KC is a conspiracy theory  and that she has the greatest legal team in the history of Hollywood. 

[Cleanqueen]

38 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Yes we know everything involving KC is a conspiracy theory  and that she has the greatest legal team in the history of Hollywood. 

She is on record stating the fact that she got on Arrow was because of her connection with the CW...please let me know if any other actor is on record stating that about how they got the role. 

[Primal Slayer]

45 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

She is on record stating the fact that she got on Arrow was because of her connection with the CW...please let me know if any other actor is on record stating that about how they got the role. 

She isn't the first actor to get offered a role but if you know any other actor who was killed off and brought back a year later due to any contracts lemme know. If the network allowed her contract to be terminated then why bring her back? They could've put her on a different show.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[Cleanqueen]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

She isn't the first actor to get offered a role but if you know any other actor who was killed off and brought back a year later due to any contracts lemme know. If the network allowed her contract to be terminated then why bring her back? They could've put her on a different show.

why put her on another show when they can just stick her on a show she has history with? 

And most actors that get killed either move on and get solid gigs or are happy to come back on a need basis. She didn't and it is clear she was unable to land other solid gigs thus why her connections played in her favor at this point. An actress with her history could've easily moved on and got a solid gig elsewhere if she was offered the opportunity, truth is she wasn't and thus why her connections with the network were able to get her back in the show.

I mean BTS stuff aside, It's pretty evident she wasn't a popular character and made little noise when her character died and not enough to warrant a full series regular status playing a villain's goon. 

[Delphi]

18 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

why put her on another show when they can just stick her on a show she has history with? 

I mean,  I would have really appreciated that.   Send her back to Supernatural.   She has history there. 

[wonderwall]

5 hours ago, Delphi said:

I mean,  I would have really appreciated that.   Send her back to Supernatural.   She has history there. 

Y'know - I tend to believe rumors that no one on that show liked her considering she never interacts with them on social media... Ever. 

I also feel that the cast and Vancouver based crew don't like her - which is evident when no one bid her goodbye or welcomed her back to the show. Completely evident when you compare how the cast reacted to Susanna and Colton leaving...

5 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

I mean BTS stuff aside, It's pretty evident she wasn't a popular character and made little noise when her character died and not enough to warrant a full series regular status playing a villain's goon. 

I think she did make some noise. I mean a lot of arguments about Arrow centered around her. But I don't necessarily think that she had enough positive noise to back her up. And from what I've seen, even her own fans tend to talk more about Olicity/Felicity more than KC/LL/BC... 

Edited June 27, 2017 by wonderwall

[Morrigan2575]

18 minutes ago, Delphi said:

I mean,  I would have really appreciated that.   Send her back to Supernatural.   She has history there. 

You're Dead to Me! ?

Plus given the history the Js probably would have quit then work with her on the regular again ?

Edited June 27, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

Killing BC made more noise than killing Laurel. It was all about costume. And they rectified that with just creating a new one. The character is interchangeable.

EBR, SA, DR and PB didn't even acknowledge her engagement and of those SA was the only one who posted anything about her return and that was just a gif. 

[Delphi]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

You're Dead to Me!

Plus given the history the Js probably would have quit then work with her on the regular again ?

 I'm sorry!!  I'm just waiting for Catrox to track me down and murder me in my bed. 

[Cleanqueen]

27 minutes ago, Delphi said:

I mean,  I would have really appreciated that.   Send her back to Supernatural.   She has history there. 

They'd like to forget the time she spent on the show 8-9 years ago.

 

14 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Killing BC made more noise than killing Laurel. It was all about costume. And they rectified that with just creating a new one. The character is interchangeable.

EBR, SA, DR and PB didn't even acknowledge her engagement and of those SA was the only one who posted anything about her return and that was just a gif. 

Yeah it was never about Laurel Lance "the most important female on the show" dying that made headlines, it was more about comic fans crying about the fact that you cant have a Green Arrow show without Black Canary and they clearly solved that issue by bringing in a new Canary and giving her everything she has in the comics (minus the romance with old man O

liver of course)

And yeah your cast and crew not mentioning your death or saying goodbye to you or wishing you well pretty much tells me you arent as close as you'd like to make it seem.

And with someone who has a long history on the CW, it is kind of interesting that you haven't maintained any relationship with any of your previous cast mates. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

3 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

She isn't the first actor to get offered a role but if you know any other actor who was killed off and brought back a year later due to any contracts lemme know. If the network allowed her contract to be terminated then why bring her back? They could've put her on a different show.

What Arrow did with LL in the past 4 seasons and with BS in the last one -- the utter disrespect they have shown this character and actress -- and then bringing her back again for another season only reinforces the theory that no one on the show wants her back but that she was forced on them by whoever her godfather or godmother at The CW is. The problem with putting her on another show? NOBODY wants her on another show. If her reputation preceded her I would bet that all other CW shows said "Hell to the no." I mean, poor girl can't even get work on her uncle Shaun Cassidy's own show. They're throwing her scraps and she's desperate enough to say yes. 

[Trini]

This narrative that Cassidy is some type of real life villain is disturbing.

[catrox14]

4 hours ago, Delphi said:

I mean,  I would have really appreciated that.   Send her back to Supernatural.   She has history there. 

How dare you.

I mean if I was forced to endure Ruby again, admittedly I'd take KC's Ruby over Genevieve Padalecki's but that's like saying I'd rather have both my eyes poked out with a rusty spork vs having an earwig. 

[Cleanqueen]

39 minutes ago, Trini said:

This narrative that Cassidy is some type of real life villain is disturbing.

I don't see anyone in here calling her a Villain...she has entitlement and connections that got her to be where she is and that's a fact.

[Primal Slayer]

4 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

why put her on another show when they can just stick her on a show she has history with? 

And most actors that get killed either move on and get solid gigs or are happy to come back on a need basis. She didn't and it is clear she was unable to land other solid gigs thus why her connections played in her favor at this point. An actress with her history could've easily moved on and got a solid gig elsewhere if she was offered the opportunity, truth is she wasn't and thus why her connections with the network were able to get her back in the show.

I mean BTS stuff aside, It's pretty evident she wasn't a popular character and made little noise when her character died and not enough to warrant a full series regular status playing a villain's goon. 

They could've put her on Gossip Girl after MP got cancelled or Supernatural instead of offering Arrow. They could've put her on Supernatural after she left Arrow. Most actors that get killed off either move on quickly or after a couple of years. KC left the show around April? But she didn't get a new show 5mins afterwards so her time MUST be up....but then July it is announced that she is a "series regular" across all shows and then she films 2 indies. She didn't even go a full year without any work. Her character made enough noise for plenty of media sites to talk about it and the cast even admitting that the uproar was more then they suspected and made them take notice. They have said that they were overcome with ideas for the character and now they want to see those ideas play out and come to fruition. 

A network isn't going to go "ok, kill her off" 5 months later "well we feel pretty darn bad for her that she isn't a series regular on another show...I think you bring her back full time"

1 minute ago, Cleanqueen said:

I don't see anyone in here calling her a Villain...she has entitlement and connections that got her to be where she is and that's a fact.

So where's the facts that it got her back? 

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

They could've put her on Supernatural after she left Arrow.

No how, no way was she coming back to SPN. I doubt KC would have accepted a return to SPN even if they offered. She supposedly left because of money, so why would she go back for less money because that's the only SPN would have taken her. She wasn't going to play Ruby again because that was already recast with the actress that ended up married to Jared Padalecki and the character was killed off. So there was no place for her anymore.

[Cleanqueen]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

They could've put her on Gossip Girl after MP got cancelled or Supernatural instead of offering Arrow. They could've put her on Supernatural after she left Arrow. Most actors that get killed off either move on quickly or after a couple of years. KC left the show around April? But she didn't get a new show 5mins afterwards so her time MUST be up....but then July it is announced that she is a "series regular" across all shows and then she films 2 indies. She didn't even go a full year without any work. Her character made enough noise for plenty of media sites to talk about it and the cast even admitting that the uproar was more then they suspected and made them take notice. They have said that they were overcome with ideas for the character and now they want to see those ideas play out and come to fruition. 

A network isn't going to go "ok, kill her off" 5 months later "well we feel pretty darn bad for her that she isn't a series regular on another show...I think you bring her back full time"

They gave her Arrow because it was a fresh show, Nobody expected her to be a flop right off the bat, and the changes the show made after the first half of season 1 clearly shows the change in direction.

And you're assuming the network wanted her back and other factors didn't play in to that(i.e contracts). Just look at the announcement back in season 5 where she was supposedly going to be a series regular across all three shows and that only amounted to 2 main arrow episodes and one LOT episode compared to what the real series regular across all 3 shows got (ie John Barrowman). If EP's wanted her back, they could've given her more content or at least not have Felicity punch her as a send off .

Also if you don't think anything was at play here, then read the producer's words after her 5x10 episode. Wendy specifically stated there were no plans to have her back for the rest of the season and that they were done with her story and Marc stating that he'd love to do scenes between BS and Lance in the future but that KC wasn't a regular. Fast forward a month and a half later, she's all of a sudden going to be in the last two episodes of season 5 and is now a series rearguard in season 6. When you actually look back to what happened in the finale, the episode's could've still happened without BS as her presence only led to Dinah finally accepting the BC mantle. 

And I don't know of any cast member who said Killing Laurel was teh reason why KC was back. If that was the case and teh producers wanted to reverse that decision, you wouldn't be having Dinah Drake and evil version of Katie cassidy. Also, having an evil version of her gives them more leeway to continually trash the character and they don't expect backlash because you know "she is a villain"

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

She supposedly left because of money, so why would she go back for less money because that's the only SPN would have taken her. 

 Kripke gave the "budget" answer and KC said it was her choice to leave SPN because she got offered Harper's Island.  However they were both lies to save face, she was fired. She actually freaking admitted it at a con right around S2/S3. Of course she never said why just that she was fired from SPN.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 Kripke gave the "budget" answer and KC said it was her choice to leave SPN because she got offered Harper's Island.  However they were both lies to save face, she was fired. She actually freaking admitted it at a con right around S2/S3. Of course she never said why just that she was fired from SPN.

Ha! That sounds about right. So yeah, that ship sailed. Thank gods!

[Primal Slayer]

4 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

And yeah your cast and crew not mentioning your death or saying goodbye to you or wishing you well pretty much tells me you arent as close as you'd like to make it seem.

And with someone who has a long history on the CW, it is kind of interesting that you haven't maintained any relationship with any of your previous cast mates. 

SA/EBR having a goodbye brunch with KC was totally fake, I totally forgot that

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

No how, no way was she coming back to SPN. I doubt KC would have accepted a return to SPN even if they offered. She supposedly left because of money, so why would she go back for less money because that's the only SPN would have taken her. She wasn't going to play Ruby again because that was already recast with the actress that ended up married to Jared Padalecki and the character was killed off. So there was no place for her anymore.

How do you know it would be less money? It'd probably be more then they would've given her then since she is more established then that being her breakout role. It's Supernatural, there is plenty of place for everyone, isn't Sam/Deans mother alive again or something?

[lemotomato]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

SA/EBR having a goodbye brunch with KC was totally fake, I totally forgot that

I don't recall it being labeled as a goodbye brunch just for her. IIRC lots of people were there, including SA's pal Drew. 

[Cleanqueen]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

SA/EBR having a goodbye brunch with KC was totally fake, I totally forgot that

He didn't have brunch with her. Stephen, Emily and Echo were there the whole day having brunch, she later came and then all of a sudden EBR, SA, carina were posting pics with her  Also KC deleted that pic, that should tell you enough of what the real intent for it was. 

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

SA/EBR having a goodbye brunch with KC was totally fake, I totally forgot that

 

Ah... one of the very few times he ever acknowledged her on SM! I recall that she wasn't even at brunch. SA/EBR & Friends were on SM and she wasn't around while they were eating at all. She actually came around after they finished eating. I remember because there was a shot of the table where Echo was playing with Stephen's daughter. It was so adorable!

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

SA/EBR having a goodbye brunch with KC was totally fake, I totally forgot that

How do you know it would be less money? It'd probably be more then they would've given her then since she is more established then that being her breakout role. It's Supernatural, there is plenty of place for everyone, isn't Sam/Deans mother alive again or something?

If both sides say she left for "budget" reasons, why would they offer her more money? And given @Morrigan2575's post I think that all speaks for itself. Neither SPN or KC have any reason to go back to that well and the network has no reason to push the issue.

[Primal Slayer]

10 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

They gave her Arrow because it was a fresh show, Nobody expected her to be a flop right off the bat, and the changes the show made after the first half of season 1 clearly shows the change in direction.

And you're assuming the network wanted her back and other factors didn't play in to that(i.e contracts). Just look at the announcement back in season 5 where she was supposedly going to be a series regular across all three shows and that only amounted to 2 main arrow episodes and one LOT episode compared to what the real series regular across all 3 shows got (ie John Barrowman). If EP's wanted her back, they could've given her more content or at least not have Felicity punch her as a send off .

Also if you don't think anything was at play here, then read the producer's words after her 5x10 episode. Wendy specifically stated there were no plans to have her back for the rest of the season and that they were done with her story and Marc stating that he'd love to do scenes between BS and Lance in the future but that KC wasn't a regular. Fast forward a month and a half later, she's all of a sudden going to be in the last two episodes of season 5 and is now a series rearguard in season 6. When you actually look back to what happened in the finale, the episode's could've still happened without BS as her presence only led to Dinah finally accepting the BC mantle. 

And I don't know of any cast member who said Killing Laurel was teh reason why KC was back. If that was the case and teh producers wanted to reverse that decision, you wouldn't be having Dinah Drake and evil version of Katie cassidy. Also, having an evil version of her gives them more leeway to continually trash the character and they don't expect backlash because you know "she is a villain"

She did 3 episodes across all shows, Wenworth did 5 and Barrowman did 7. MG also said "we have plans for her but she doesn't know it yet" and how hard it is to plan for characters you don't have tied down, they had a plan for her and she accepted. 

5 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

He didn't have brunch with her. Stephen, Emily and Echo were there the whole day having brunch, she later came and then all of a sudden EBR, SA, carina were posting pics with her  Also KC deleted that pic, that should tell you enough of what the real intent for it was. 

Even if it isn't a brunch for her, it was still after she was done with the show so if they didn't care about her then they wouldn't be hanging with her. 

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

If both sides say she left for "budget" reasons, why would they offer her more money? And given @Morrigan2575's post I think that all speaks for itself. Neither SPN or KC have any reason to go back to that well and the network has no reason to push the issue.

KC was a brand new actress when she left Supernatural, she is established now, do you think they would give her the same amount of money they were would've given her then? That was Season 3, the show is now on Season 12.

[apinknightmare]

I feel like I'm in Groundhog Day!

[Primal Slayer]

11 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Ah... one of the very few times he ever acknowledged her on SM! I recall that she wasn't even at brunch. SA/EBR & Friends were on SM and she wasn't around while they were eating at all. She actually came around after they finished eating. I remember because there was a shot of the table where Echo was playing with Stephen's daughter. It was so adorable!

ANd how many times has he acknowledged the other cast members that aren't EBR or DR? 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[lemotomato]

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

ANd how many times has she acknowledged the other cast members that aren't EBR?

You mean the other cast members he did videos with for his Sinceriously campaign? And the ones in his workout videos? And the one whose printed out face he took with him to Wrestlemania? The ones he invited to crash his con panels?

Edited June 27, 2017 by lemotomato

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

KC was a brand new actress when she left Supernatural, she is established now, do you think they would give her the same amount of money they were would've given her then? That was Season 3, the show is now on Season 12.

 I'm saying since money was the excuse for her departure in s3, meaning she wanted more than they would pay, I would expect it would be no different now.

I'm saying there is no reason whatsoever for SPN to bring KC back. She has no place, no reason to exist on the show. The character was played by 2 actresses and is now really most sincerely dead. If they wanted her back she would have been back long ago. She's not one they wanted in s4.  IF and that's a big if, the show ever brings Ruby back, it's highly unlikely to be in KC's meatsuit given Ruby was most recently played by Jared Padalecki's wife.

I just wish KC would depart the Arrowverse.

Edited June 27, 2017 by catrox14

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, catrox14 said:

 I'm saying since money was the excuse for her departure in s3, meaning she wanted more than they would pay, I would expect it would be no different now.

I'm saying there is no reason whatsoever for SPN to bring KC back. She has no place, no reason to exist on the show. The character was played by 2 actresses and is now really most sincerely dead. If they wanted her back she would have been back long ago. She's not one they wanted in s4.  IF and that's a big if, the show ever brings Ruby back, it's highly unlikely to be in KC's meatsuit given Ruby was most recently played by Jared Padalecki's wife.

And the whole point is that if TheCW wanted her on a show she had history on, they could've just put her on Supernatural and told em "find a way"

5 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

You mean the other cast members he did videos with for his Sinceriously campaign? And the ones in his workout videos? And the one whose printed out face he took with him to Wrestlemania? The ones he invited to crash his con panels?

And how many times were those? Did he do 500 videos with PB? 6 with Willa? Cause he's been in the gym with Katie before

[Cleanqueen]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

And the whole point is that if TheCW wanted her on a show she had history on, they could've just put her on Supernatural and told em "find a way"

6 episodes isn't history on a show esp compared to 4 seasons on another show where she has established history with multiple characters. 

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

And the whole point is that if TheCW wanted her on a show she had history on, they could've just put her on Supernatural and told em "find a way"

IMO, KC has a bit more leverage in the Arrowverse in the sense that she played a DC character that is beloved in the DC universe if not necessarily the incarnation of Laurel on the TV Show.

SPN doesn't care about Ruby. She's not sacrosanct in the eyes of the show, meaning she can stay dead forever. 

Aside from that, I highly doubt KC has more power than J2 or the showrunners. I don't see any reason why the network would even ruffle the feathers of J2 by pushing her into the show again. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Edited June 27, 2017 by catrox14

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

6 episodes isn't history on a show esp compared to 4 seasons on another show where she has established history with multiple characters. 

History is debatable, she played a big character on the show that is remembered. Is her history with Supernatural as big as Arrow? No. But it is still there. It is a role people still ask her about from time to time. 

[lemotomato]

8 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

And how many times were those? Did he do 500 videos with PB? 6 with Willa? Cause he's been in the gym with Katie before

If that's the example you're going to use, technically I'd say SA intended to the do the video with PB, and KC happened to walk by in the background. 

[LeighAn]

Stephen and David have thrown some very heavy shade at Katie in con panels. Stephen when speaking and answering a question about his chemistry with Emily spoke about how you have to like someone to have good chemistry with them and from his experience if you see two actors who don't have good chemistry it means they don't like each other/don't get along. If you listened to the answer it wasn't hard to read between the lines. Stephen and David both when praising what a giving actress Emily talked about how hard it is to work with actors who don't give you anything to work with, then said they'd both worked with someone like that but weren't going to name names. Then David gave the con where he mocked Katies no emoting acting. 

 

I dont think the cast hate Katie as much as fans might attribute to them but I think it's hard to deny that there is a stark difference in their warmth towards Katie and the warmth the cast have towards each other or other former cast members. 

 

How Katie or why Katie came back is a moot point now that she is back. What I side eye more is the belief that she is some how going to be this big figure or presence in the show and get all this investment and creative energy by the writers to get an amazing storyline when there is 5 seasons of proof that the writers have not and will not do that with any incarnation of Katies presence on the show. Laurel was a tacked on character and Black Siren was a prop- what's going to suddenly change next season? Especially when Juliana and Rick are onboard and will become more fleshed out and developed especially Juliana who will be going through the Black Canary hero transformation.

Edited June 27, 2017 by LeighAn

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, lemotomato said:

If that's the example you're going to use, technically I'd say SA intended to the do the video with PB, and KC happened to walk by in the background. 

They were still working out together and he made it a point to bring attention to her. He could've easily just ignored her.

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

How Katie or why Katie came back is a moot point now that she is back. What I side eye more is the belief that she is some how going to be this big figure or presence in the show and get all this investment and creative energy by the writers to get an amazing storyline when there is 5 seasons of proof that the writers have not and will not do that with any incarnation of Katies presence on the show. Laurel was a tacked on character and Black Siren was a prop- what's going to suddenly change next season? Especially when Juliana and Rick are onboard and will become more fleshed out and developed especially Juliana who will be going through the Black Canary hero transformation.

I see more "hope" then I do belief with a whole lotta side eye from KC fans.

[wonderwall]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

They were still working out together and he made it a point to bring attention to her. He could've easily just ignored her.

I think what @lemotomatois getting at is that working out at the same time isn't really the same as working out together... And she was walking around in the background it would've been weird if he ignored her.

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

I think what @lemotomatois getting at is that working out at the same time isn't really the same as working out together... And she was walking around in the background it would've been weird if he ignored her.

He knew that she was there when he was doing it. If you don't like someone and vice versa, ignoring them is very easy. But it's thought that out of all these shows the Arrow cast have to be the fakest  of the bunch with their relationship towards KC.

[LeighAn]

I forgot another David con shade. The SDCC where Katie was talking about a storyline for Laurel and how it'd be cool, then you hear David mutter in the background "or stupid" and Stephen Paul and John start giggling like school girls.  

[lemotomato]

12 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

They were still working out together and he made it a point to bring attention to her. He could've easily just ignored her.

Well, that would just be rude, wouldn't it? But your example doesn't disprove my point of how he has often gone out of his way to include other cast (and crew) members other than EBR and DA in his social media. JB, PB, Bamford, Josh Segarra, Colin Donnell(!) for example.

Edited June 27, 2017 by lemotomato

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

Well, that would just be rude, wouldn't it? But your example doesn't disprove my point of how he has often gone out of his way to include other cast (and crew) members other than EBR and DA in his social media. JB, PB, Bamford, Josh Segarra for example.

Honestly I think Stephen might love Josh more then Emily and David right now haha They have a love of fake wrestling that binds them together ❤️

[wonderwall]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

He knew that she was there when he was doing it. If you don't like someone and vice versa, ignoring them is very easy. But it's thought that out of all these shows the Arrow cast have to be the fakest  of the bunch with their relationship towards KC.

I think for sure it's easy to ignore them! But when you're making a video for millions of people to see - ignoring someone you work with on said video would not be the greatest thing to do lol

Who said none of the other actors on other shows aren't as fake? They could be just as fake. It's just that proximity wise - she's closest to the Arrow cast and so people tend to analyze that stuff more. See how actors interact with each other and compare how they treat one actor compared to another etc. 

For me and most people on this board, it's obvious that the cast didn't get along with KC - and the paps seem to agree on this (which I'm sure they have more knowledge about this than any of us fans) - simply by comparing how they act around her to how they act around others. But you disagree and I know none of us can convince each other so maybe it's most prudent to leave it.

6 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I forgot another David con shade. The SDCC where Katie was talking about a storyline for Laurel and how it'd be cool, then you hear David mutter in the background "or stupid" and Stephen Paul and John start giggling like school girls.  

David needed to chill there - that was so not the right place to make that comment. But he definitely made it obvious he doesn't like her at all and everyone else giggling? Yeah they totally felt the same. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by wonderwall