Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[lbrown905]

No offense but some of you guys sound bitter particularly towards West-Allen. Who cares who gets married first? 

I just don't want a wedding (Olicity or West Allen) in the crossover. Keep that on each show.

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I would hate it if WA were set to get married in the crossovers - but it doesn't happen - instead Olicity get married. HAAATE it. Because that would mean the Olicity wedding would have to be kept a secret and WA would get all the promo for their almost wedding.

Nothanx

I wouldn't mind because even if WA got the promo stuff, Olicity would get all the buzz and coverage after the episode came out.  And something that keeps getting talked about going forward means more to me long term.   

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Just curious, how long did it take for Lois and Clark to be wed on Smallville after the idea of marriage was introduced? Not comparing Olicity to them in terms of status, just wondering about how long the show stalled. It's been 46 episodes since Arrow first introduced the idea of Olicity marriage (ring in 401). 

Lois was added at the start of the 4th season.  There was some flirty stuff in her initial episodes when she was supposed to be a one off visit but when they added her as part time regular, except for a mind whammy episode in the 6th season, there wasn't any serious romantic stuff between them until suddenly in season 8 Lois decided he looked good in a dress shirt.  (Then alien women started randomly getting jealous over Lois even though Clark was still hung up on Lana )

At the start of season nine, there was a wave of a wand (and a set of new show runners) and suddenly coming off the hiatus, Clark was in love with Lois and without her, Clark Kent was still "dead" (still can't explain that - what a mess)  She'd been misplaced in time but showed back up after the summer none the wiser that she'd been gone and they ended up dating from about the mid point in that season. They did end up breaking up a couple episodes before the end of the season.  (Lois still not knowing his secret decides, I guess, that Clark isn't enough in her life if she's also no longer helping the Blur on the side. They'd also been fired from the DP for being idiots and I guess she found him useless to her then?)  

At the end of season 9 he was going to leave the planet (Earth not Daily) without ever telling her the truth, but the Blur kissed her goodbye and she recognized his technique.  

Start of season 10 she left to give him space or something when she realized he still had no plans on telling her (or getting back together with her) And not surprisingly, he doesn't have to leave the planet after all!  (But yeah, still no plans on dating her again)  Ah, but in the 4th episode, a reformed evil super computer came back in time and told Clark it was his destiny to be with Lois (and also to bury his past which turns out to be bad advice since he has to embrace it in the end in order to fly) so he started dating her again, eventually told her the truth I think in the 5th episode and proposed in the 11th.  (Super fast IMO but the show was in it's last season)

Then in the two part finale, Chloe interrupted the wedding because if he'd finished the ceremony, Clark would have lost all his powers forever (For me, someone that already thought Lois was ruining him as Superman, how much more meta could they get, lol) since his real ring had been replaced by gold kryptonite.  Oh and Oliver Queen tried then kill him.  (Good times!) 

Seven years after introducing Superman to the world, he and Lois are STILL not married and now they are actively hiding their relationship in the halls of the DP though still engaged and planning some quickie ceremony that day.  BUT he has to rush off to save the day again.  Yes he says to stall the guy but take that as you like.  I took it as, YIKES!  SEVEN YEARS and still he can't make it a priority?    Smallville was a mess.  Yes I have issues.    

47 minutes ago, tarotx said:

I barely watch the Flash (I'm still lingering midseason) so as long as Barry and Iris get Marry on The Flash I don't care. I'm still mad that the LOT crossover episode ended on Barry and Oliver. And I think Arrow will be the last in the Crossover this upcoming season and I don't want any big thing for another show to happen on Arrow. 

It's no guarantee, but the crossover ending on Arrow does give more weight to the idea that it would be Arrow centric.  And since MG spoke of needing to rely on emotional weight this time, hey, I wouldn't count anything out.  :D  

Edited June 25, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

I don't care what WA do yo be honest as long as Olicity get married at some point and more importantly I get an Olicitot.

Can you imagine Twitter, the fanfic, the general hysteria when the Olicity wedding takes place. 

AO3 will probably crash!!!!!

It's going to be so much fun!!!!!!

[kismet]

On 5/16/2017 at 8:07 AM, tv echo said:

LoT-related posts at https://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/ on May 15, 2017...

broken-canary asked:
Is the waverider crew going to get any new members in season 3? i.e. Lisa Snart or Hartley from the flash
Yes, you’ll be seeing at least one new face.

nothingwitharaccoon asked:
With Chris Fedak's new show getting picked up to series, will he be leaving LoT?
Very, very sadly, yes.  It’s a blow.  But we’re happy for Chris!

Really late to respond. I have been avoiding most threads until I came to like Arrow again. Sadly, not sure that day is here yet. But I wanted to come here and post how much I loved Wonder Woman. Until I saw your post.

Of course, now that I found out about this Chris Fedak news for LoT, which I don't believe ever hit the LoT thread and I am now very scared for the future success of LoT. Chris Fedak I think was one of the ballasts in the LoT creative team that helped to keep the cool group dynamics and the focus on fun/creative stories. We still have Phil Klemmer. But I am seriously worried now. Especially if the Fedak void allows for MG to gain anymore power. I do not want LoT ruined like Arrow has been ruined.

[Trini]

On 6/23/2017 at 10:36 PM, quarks said:

...

In terms of how long the CW DC shows will last - well, I'm old enough to remember when The Simpsons were on the Tracey Ullman Show and when The Simpsons was only expected to be a brief experiment for what was then a new, young struggling network, and when X-Files was expected to last maybe one season. I can also remember people assuring me that Smallville would only go for five seasons, and by "people" in that sentence I mean "some of the Smallville crew/producers."  So I'd say that early predictions about how long a show can last are frequently very very wrong. 

But, interestingly enough, while Arrow was apparently initially intended to be a five year show (thus the "for five years I was stuck on an island whoops not really well that's ok since nobody's really watching the flashbacks anymore moving on") Flash has made several references to 2024 - that is, ten years after the pilot. So while I'd say it's still far, far too early to predict how long Flash will air, I don't think it was or even is unreasonable to think that Flash might go for ten years, or to suggest that the Flash producers at least have or have had hopes of this happening.  This is the same network that's kept Supernatural going and going and going after all.

22 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Why not? Being still their most successful show, ratings wise, I imagine they'll want to keep it on air as long as possible. ...

As long as it's profitable for CW/WB it will be on the air. I have no predictions about how long The Flash (or the other DC shows) will last, but the TV climate is different from the time of the The Simpsons and Smallville. I always hesitate to use Supernatural as an example for show longevity because it's the exception - not the rule.

The vast majority the longest-running shows [ETA: as in one-hour dramas] currently on the air (older than Arrow) are procedurals, and only two are genre shows. I'm not saying The Flash can't last 10 years, but seems not likely to me. How many other genre shows have lasted that long on network TV? In general, their runs are relatively short. We'll see.

 

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Two different shows but by the same people.  For me it's a case of "it's not fair if WestAllen gets married first-- Oliver had the engagement ring for Felicity 46 episodes ago while Iris was still mourning Eddie as the love of her life".

A couple of producers in common, but I'm so glad it's not the same people; as shown by Oliver and Felicity being exes for an entire season while Barry and Iris moved on to be with each other.

I'm not convinced yet that a wedding will be in the crossover. What other plots with "emotional stakes" could tie-in all four shows? Family crises?

Edited June 25, 2017 by Trini

[kismet]

On 5/25/2017 at 4:43 PM, BkWurm1 said:

If Bam Bam doesn't steal some version of this stunt for Arrow next season he is dead to me.  

 

Robin Wright as an Amazon in Wonder Woman

Seriously, the archery based stunt work in Wonder Woman was AMAZING!!! I really hope BamBam can get some inspiration from the stunt work in WW.

Edited June 25, 2017 by kismet

[LeighAn]

13 minutes ago, Trini said:

 

A couple of producers in common, but I'm so glad it's not the same people; as shown by Oliver and Felicity being exes for an entire season while Barry and Iris moved on to be with each other.

I'm not convinced yet that a wedding will be in the crossover. What other plots with "emotional stakes" could tie-in all four shows? Family crises?

You do realise that Kreisberg and Berlanti consult and are creators across all shows right? While Marc consults and is creator of both Arriw and LOT.

The Flash, Legends, Arrow and Supergirl share producers, share writers, share directors, share costume designers, share casting agents, share cinematographers, share production designers, share stunt directors and stunt crew etc etc. 

A quick search through IMDB shows just how interconnected and one family the shows are. So I don't get the whole elitist thing TBH.

[leopardprint]

I really don't want an Olicity wedding in the crossover because then it will be about all these other people at the Olicity wedding and it won't be about Olicity. (I mean I don't want an Olicity wedding at all because Oliver needs to look at his life, look at his choices and Felicity needs to get a life outside of the bunker but I digress...) 

I just don't think a wedding broken up by some super powered time traveling alien godsharkilla then hastily resumed post defeat but wait  the officiant ran off so Ray has to marry them (god forbid) seems suitable. And you know it will be Barry's fault somehow. 

Edited June 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[Trini]

9 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

You do realise that Kreisberg and Berlanti consult and are creators across all shows right? While Marc consults and is creator of both Arriw and LOT.

Like I said, a couple of producers in common. And I was talking about The Flash and Arrow, and those in charge of writing specifically; like the poster I quoted. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Primal Slayer]

10 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

You do realise that Kreisberg and Berlanti consult and are creators across all shows right? While Marc consults and is creator of both Arriw and LOT.

The Flash, Legends, Arrow and Supergirl share producers, share writers, share directors, share costume designers, share casting agents, share cinematographers, share production designers, share stunt directors and stunt crew etc etc. 

A quick search through IMDB shows just how interconnected and one family the shows are. So I don't get the whole elitist thing TBH.

Berlanti is the only major one that connects all the shows. MG has no say in The Flash just as AK most likely has no say in Arrow nowadays. If AK wants WestAllen to get married, he doesn't need to stop his storyline just because Olicity havent walked down the isle. 

[LeighAn]

Considering Stephen just gave a con panel where he basically said he see an Olicity wedding happening in season 6 I'm hopeful Olicity gets married first, but I don't need it to be in the crossover because I'd much rather it be about Olicity and the people who matter to them then about Barry or Kara

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, LeighAn said:

My objection to WestAllen getting married first is god damn it I had to sit through RAY, through baby momma, through billygoat, through Rayporter, through three fake deaths and Alsahim Oliver. What's the worst WestAllen been through? They sang love songs about each other. We've freaking earnt this! Haha

 

Aren't you always saying how much better a shared universe is and the shows being integrated? Now what one show does shouldn't have anything to do with another show?

A. The FLash is The FLash, Arrow is Arrow, don't watch The Flash if you don't want to see WestAllen get married first (if they do)

B. Where did I say they shouldn't have anything to do with another show? I clearly said neither should have to wait for another to do anything. 

[Mellowyellow]

620 is possibly too soon for a wedding (I think they'll want to milk it out, Olicity being their big draw card and all) but I desperately want an episode 20 wedding in the tradition of big things happen for Olicity in ep 20. 

720 is a loooooooong time away though!!!! No time for Olicitots!

[LeighAn]

9 minutes ago, Trini said:

Like I said, a couple of producers in common. And I was talking about The Flash and Arrow, and those in charge of writing specifically; like the poster I quoted. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

9 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Berlanti is the only major one that connects all the shows. MG has no say in The Flash just as AK most likely has no say in Arrow nowadays. If AK wants WestAllen to get married, he doesn't need to stop his storyline just because Olicity havent walked down the isle. 

Ah no Andrew is a creator with Berlanti on ALL four shows therefore has creative say. Marc is a creator on Arrow and Legends therefore has creative say.

 

Arrow and Flash DO share writers and MULTIPLE producers. Ben Solowski, Keto Shismu, Brian Q Miller among them.

Edited June 25, 2017 by LeighAn

[Primal Slayer]

Except as far as we know AK does not execute any form of power over on Arrow. MG does the leg work while AK collects the pay check.

Berlanti is the only one that matters since he is the one who has the final say in anything any of the shows do apart from the showrunners.

[kismet]

On 6/8/2017 at 8:02 AM, tv echo said:

Sign her up - fast!...

'Wonder Woman' Director Patty Jenkins Not Signed for Sequel
JUNE 07, 2017 5:55am PT by Borys Kit
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/wonder-woman-director-patty-jenkins-not-signed-sequel-1010845?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

They should totally sign her up. But she should also negotiate herself a sweet deal. WW was an absolutely amazing film that transcended the superhero genre and yet also paid beautiful homage to its roots. And to me, a lot of that was in the direction of the film. Would it have been a good movie without Patty, perhaps - the writing, acting & action scenes were spot on. But I think having Patty as the director is why the movie was such a success, she wove it all together and gave us one of the best superhero movies in recent times. 

[wonderwall]

The Flash is the Flash and Arrow is Arrow - which is why it annoys me to no end when Arrow has to accommodate for Flash and deal with metas and crap like E2 characters and having to deal with Flashpoint. Alas - it's Arrow that always has to bare the brunt of the whole shared universe thing whereas Flash gets off unscathed. I guess that's the perk of being the golden child?

Even with the romantic drama crap, I'm glad the Flash and Arrow writers/producers are different. If Arrow writers were Flash writers then Felicity would have little storyline and agency and would only be there to be Oliver's cheerleader. Felicity's development over the years has been great. You can totally tell she's a more developed, evolved character than she was when we first met her in season 1. You can say the same about Thea as well... Can't really say the same for the Flash ladies. :/ 

I'd much rather have better writing for the female characters than my ship getting married first, but that's just my opinion.

Edited June 25, 2017 by wonderwall

[lemotomato]

Y'all are forgetting about the network and what they want. It's possible the reason why Olicity had to pump the breaks was because the network told the show to do it. If they decide they want to stall Westallen, then that's what the EPs will do. 

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

Y'all are forgetting about the network and what they want. It's possible the reason why Olicity had to pump the breaks was because the network told the show to do it. If they decide they want to stall Westallen, then that's what the EPs will do. 

Yup... In the end the EPs have very little power over their own shows on bigger picture items. The network has the power to veto or greenlight any storyline that makes it to their desk. I honestly doubt the Arrow writers wanted to break Olicity up. It's the network that forced them to. And Flash/Arrow share the same network so... 

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Y'all are forgetting about the network and what they want. It's possible the reason why Olicity had to pump the breaks was because the network told the show to do it. If they decide they want to stall Westallen, then that's what the EPs will do. 

True. I've watched almost every CW show and they live and breathe by the moon lighting curse of you judge their history of end game couples.

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

The Flash is the Flash and Arrow is Arrow - which is why it annoys me to no end when Arrow has to accommodate for Flash and deal with metas and crap like E2 characters and having to deal with Flashpoint. Alas - it's Arrow that always has to bare the brunt of the whole shared universe thing whereas Flash gets off unscathed. I guess that's the perk of being the golden child?

There is a big difference between having to and wanting to. So far everything we've seen, Arrow has wanted to do S4+ as far as metas and E2 characters. They wanted to bring in a E2 character. 

[wonderwall]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

There is a big difference between having to and wanting to. So far everything we've seen, Arrow has wanted to do S4+ as far as metas and E2 characters. They wanted to bring in a E2 character. 

There really is no proof of this so other than their own words which... I'm sure they embellish a lot for the press. For all we know the network could've pushed them. 

As far as metas? The fact that the whole "back to basics" thing was actually a way the network pushed for season 5 says a lot... Not only that but I recall the EPs saying that Arrow has a different tone than Flash and Arrow is more grounded. That all got blown away rather quickly after Flash's successful 1st season.

So I really don't believe they wanted to add an E2 character nor do I believe they wanted to add more metas after they figured that it didn't work before. Not to mention the budget? Arrow went over budget and I'm sure the special effects didn't help. 

So yeah... pretty sure they were pushed into adding these characters but that's just my opinion on the matter. None of us really know the truth. 

[Primal Slayer]

How are their own words not proof? Then how can we believe anything that they say, just by picking and choosing?

Season 4 introduced magic, which didn't really have anything to do with The Flash and since the season ended up failing they fell back on the "back2basics" after trying something out.

[kismet]

On 6/8/2017 at 8:10 AM, tv echo said:

This is interesting...

Why Wonder Woman ‘Needed’ Steve Trevor
By Andrew Dyce  June 7, 2017
http://screenrant.com/wonder-woman-movie-needs-steve-trevor/

I really loved Steve Trevor. And I really loved Chris Pine's portrayal of him. I'm not sure needed is the correct word, but I do think the article did a good job articulating why his character was important to the storyline. I do think it added to the film.

Spoiler

It really is a shame that he is no longer with us. While I foresaw his death in the middle of the film, I must admit I was hoping that somehow they could find a different way to end his journey. Couldn't someone fly up and save him? Couldn't there be a parachute? And I wouldn't even mind if they stole Capt America's plotline and we found him decades later frozen in the sea. Although that seems unlikely.

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

How are their own words not proof?

Embellishing, white lies, etc. They obviously don't want to get in trouble with the network so they aren't going to say the network forced us lol. 

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Season 4 introduced magic, which didn't really have anything to do with The Flash and since the season ended up failing they fell back on the "back2basics" after trying something out.

Interestingly enough - the Flash's new villain will dabble in magic. I do think there's a connection because I think the network felt like now that it's a shared universe - Arrow should step out of its boundaries a bit to sort of keep up with the fantastical nature of The Flash and LoT.

[Trini]

It seems like they had to bring in Earth-2 Laurel/Black Siren since they wanted to bring back Katie Cassidy, and Earth-1 Laurel had to stay dead because "we're killing off someone for real this time, we mean it!" But that's the only character from another universe, right? I don't think they'd do that again.

[wonderwall]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Then how can we believe anything that they say, just by picking and choosing?

You really don't know what's true and what isn't. I think over time you can figure it out over little things like their tone, diction, etc. 

[LeighAn]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

How are their own words not proof? Then how can we believe anything that they say, just by picking and choosing?

Season 4 introduced magic, which didn't really have anything to do with The Flash and since the season ended up failing they fell back on the "back2basics" after trying something out.

Well um read Wendy Mericele interviews and then watch the show- she said heaps of stuff that absolutely did not happen haha.

[wonderwall]

Just now, Trini said:

It seems like they had to bring in Earth-2 Laurel/Black Siren since they wanted to bring back Katie Cassidy, and Earth-1 Laurel had to stay dead because "we're killing off someone for real this time, we mean it!" But that's the only character from another universe, right? I don't think they'd do that again.

I honestly don't think they wanted to bring her back with the way they talked about the death last year. And the way MG announced it to a fan on tumblr? Makes me think that even further. 

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, LeighAn said:

Well um read Wendy Mericele interviews and then watch the show- she said heaps of stuff that absolutely did not happen haha.

It's a bit different from how the writers interpret things to how they come across on screen. Their reality does not match our own. But they weren't forced to bring in Black Siren into 5x10, they wanted to in order to tell that story, just so happens that The Flash already gave them the ammo they needed the year before.

[BkWurm1]

43 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

620 is possibly too soon for a wedding (I think they'll want to milk it out, Olicity being their big draw card and all) but I desperately want an episode 20 wedding in the tradition of big things happen for Olicity in ep 20. 

720 is a loooooooong time away though!!!! No time for Olicitots!

I am not convinced in show Olicitots are the best idea (or at least once they start talking and we have to worry about child actors as opposed to cute babies and toddlers) so don't hate me, but I'm good if the tots have to happen more off screen after the show is done than in show.  

36 minutes ago, kismet said:

They should totally sign her up. But she should also negotiate herself a sweet deal. WW was an absolutely amazing film that transcended the superhero genre and yet also paid beautiful homage to its roots. And to me, a lot of that was in the direction of the film. Would it have been a good movie without Patty, perhaps - the writing, acting & action scenes were spot on. But I think having Patty as the director is why the movie was such a success, she wove it all together and gave us one of the best superhero movies in recent times. 

From what I've read, she fought hard for the No Man's Land scene so yeah, I think she should get a lot of credit for the great movie we got.  

Spoiler

It really is a shame that he is no longer with us. While I foresaw his death in the middle of the film, I must admit I was hoping that somehow they could find a different way to end his journey. Couldn't someone fly up and save him? Couldn't there be a parachute? And I wouldn't even mind if they stole Capt America's plotline and we found him decades later frozen in the sea. Although that seems unlikely.

Spoiler

I realized he was a dead duck from watching B vs S.  It was one of the reasons I was really nervous about the WW movie.  I already knew I wasn't going to like how it ended (and nope, I didn't, sigh).  But they really ditched him quickly in the grand scheme of the Wonder Woman character.  I can't help wonder though if she ever gets a stand alone sequel set in the current timeline, (right now they are suggesting the next WW movies will also take place in the past) then they might discover Steve has a great, great, great, nephew that looks just like him!

Edited June 25, 2017 by BkWurm1

[LeighAn]

Didn't Chris Pine say he was signed on for multiple pictures? So I'm assuming they have ways to use him. Dream sequence maybe? Flash backs?

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Didn't Chris Pine say he was signed on for multiple pictures? So I'm assuming they have ways to use him. Dream sequence maybe? Flash backs?

Twin brother who is exactly the same as Steve. 

Yes. 

[BkWurm1]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Twin brother who is exactly the same as Steve. 

Yes. 

Meet Reeve Majors?

Or if the name is really important, we'll find out that for "reasons"  Steve's twin brother Henry borrowed his name to join the army and Diana hasn't even met the real Steve yet.  Bonus points for brother swapping!

Edited June 25, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Didn't Chris Pine say he was signed on for multiple pictures? So I'm assuming they have ways to use him. Dream sequence maybe? Flash backs?

Pull from the WW tv series....Steve Rogers Jr. lol, even that version left Mans World after WWII before coming back in the 70s.

[LeighAn]

I think the thing I want clarified is did Diana and Steve have sex in the village scene? #priorities

[BkWurm1]

Just now, LeighAn said:

I think the thing I want clarified is did Diana and Steve have sex in the village scene? #priorities

I'm feeling pretty clear on that one, lol.  :D

[LeighAn]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm feeling pretty clear on that one, lol.  :D

They could have kissed and then called it a night?

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

They could have kissed and then called it a night?

If it was just that he wouldn't have closed the door ;)

[Mellowyellow]

@BkWurm1 she'll need to be preggers for half a season and then the Olicitot will be a baby/toddler for 2 years. So we won't get any cute tots if they marry in 720 *sniffles*

[ruby24]

Another reason fans expect WestAllen to get married is because of the inevitable appearance of Bart Allen on the show eventually. Whether as their grandson like he is in the comics, or more likely, their son in this version. I suspect that's got to be coming soon.

[kismet]

38 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I think the thing I want clarified is did Diana and Steve have sex in the village scene? #priorities

A perfect deleted scenes feature. Now that would be some quality scenes.

I'm perfectly comfortable in believing that they did have sex. But I also think the ambiguity of it helps the story appeal to a variety of audiences.

Edited June 25, 2017 by kismet

[quarks]

8 minutes ago, Trini said:

 

The vast majority the longest-running shows currently on the air (older than Arrow) are procedurals, and only two are genre shows. I'm not saying The Flash can't last 10 years, but seems not likely to me. How many other genre shows have lasted that long on network TV? In general, their runs are relatively short. We'll see.

 

 

I kinda have to disagree with this.

First, none of the longest running shows currently on the air in the U.S. are procedurals - they are all news shows (Meet the Press, CBS Evening News), late night talk shows (The Tonight Show) or religious programming.  The runners up are General Hospital and Days of Our Lives, followed by various sports shows.

Even sticking to scripted prime time U.S. television (aka, not news, soaps, sports and educational shows) I'm not sure this is true. Within that category, we currently have:

The Simpsons (28 seasons), not a procedural

Law and Order: Special Victims Unit (18 seasons) procedural

Family Guy (18 years, 15 seasons), not a procedural

NCIS (14 seasons), procedural

Grey's Anatomy (13 seasons), not a procedural

Supernatural (12 seasons), not a procedural

Technically still on air, but now on cable:

American Dad (14 seasons; began on Fox, now on cable)

Even if I just restrict this to the top four and leave out American Dad, the procedurals are still just half of the shows. If I bring in the just ended Bones (12 seasons) I have to add Grey's Anatomy and Supernatural - making it four non-procedurals to three procedurals. And that's it - all other scripted primetime shows have been on for fewer than ten years.

Of those six (seven if we count American Dad), one is a dark fantasy and two more (The Simpsons and Family Guy), while primarily comedies, have played with genre tropes.  So, half of the longest running scripted primetime shows right now are either genre or play with the concept.

Looking back, at least four genre shows have lasted at least ten seasons - Supernatural, Smallville (10 seasons), X-Files (technically 10 seasons, even if most of us - well, ok, me - would prefer to believe that it only had seven seasons), and on cable, Stargate SG-1 (10 seasons).  In the "more difficult to categorize by straight seasons but wow these franchises never seem to die" category we have Doctor Who, Star Trek, and Red Dwarf, and a few shows with relatively decent seven or eight season runs - Charmed, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and The Vampire Diaries.  Pretty impressive given that even now in the post Game of Thrones era, genre shows are still in the minority.

And if the CW does cancel Flash, WB could always follow the example of Fox and American Dad and just sell it to another network - sister networks TBS or TNT, or the upcoming DC streaming service.  So, again, at this point, nobody knows, but a ten year run for Flash is not unthinkable.

 

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Except as far as we know AK does not execute any form of power over on Arrow. MG does the leg work while AK collects the pay check.

Berlanti is the only one that matters since he is the one who has the final say in anything any of the shows do apart from the showrunners.

While Andrew Kreisberg has said he's spending more time with Supergirl and Flash, he's also stated that he continues to read/supervise scripts for Arrow.  He's been credited with story and scripts on both Supergirl and Flash, so I'm puzzled as to why you are trying to imply that he just sits around while MG works. (Not to mention that even if AK did leave the Arrowverse entirely, he'd still be entitled to royalties for the characters he partly created for Arrow - John Diggle, Quentin Lance and Thea Queen.) 

Also, Berlanti does not have the final say in anything that the shows do. That would be Kevin Tsujihara, along with Jeffrey Schlesinger, Peter Roth, Marc Pedowitz and Diane Nelson. 

43 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I think the thing I want clarified is did Diana and Steve have sex in the village scene? #priorities

I thought absolutely yes.

And then she told him that it had been better with this one girl back on the island....

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Except as far as we know AK does not execute any form of power over on Arrow. MG does the leg work while AK collects the pay check.

Berlanti is the only one that matters since he is the one who has the final say in anything any of the shows do apart from the showrunners.

Well AK is the one we have to "thank" for Lance hooking up with Donna for example..he is busy with other shows but it doesn't mean he has nothing to do with Arrow..

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

True. I've watched almost every CW show and they live and breathe by the moon lighting curse of you judge their history of end game couples.

Yeah..they've done a lot of absurd stuff to keep their couples separated until the end..Also a wedding is something big you know you can do only once and can't be topped so writers are usually careful to do it at the right moment or when they can't possibly make people wait any longer..

Edited June 25, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[LeighAn]

4 minutes ago, quarks said:

 

I thought absolutely yes.

And then she told him that it had been better with this one girl back on the island....

Ha, this makes me realise I need to go see Wonder Woman again. 

[bijoux]

10 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Well AK is the one we have to "thank" for Lance hooking up with Donna for example..he is busy with other shows but it doesn't mean he has nothing to do with Arrow..

I didn't know about this, just about PB campaigning for it.

[Midnight Lullaby]

22 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I didn't know about this, just about PB campaigning for it.

We definitely also have to thank the actors and the fans for it, LOL.

[kismet]

I'm so excited Wonder Woman was a well produced, directed, filmed, written and acted film. I hope it gets some love & recognition during award season. I think it's important to have strong female characters portrayed. I also think more importantly it's important that a female director is getting well deserved praise. I think females are far too underrepresented in the entertainment industry on all levels. So it's nice that we are making some headway. But we are only at the beginning.

I was supposed to see it opening night, but missed it because I was not feeling well. But I'm glad I did not see it until this week, because I want to contribute to the notion that films like WW can appeal to mass audiences and sustain a good profit in the box office for many weeks. I went on a Weds night and the theater was more than 50% filled. That's impressive, since it was a nice Weds night to boot. However, I do feel a lot like Michelle Wolf in this clip from The Daily Show (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/pikmtf/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah--wonder-woman--breaks-the-invisible-ceiling). That being said,, I have to be proud that a female produced film about a female superhero is getting so much positive feedback and love. I truly hope this is the beginning of something special. I want to get to a point where gender will not be such a prominent issue. Where it won't be important if it's a "female" thing. Perhaps we are one step closer to not defining something as "chick".

---

Politically commentary aside, the film just rocked!! I loved Diana!! I love Steve!! Etta Candy was an amazing scene stealer!! I hope we see more of her. I loved their Merry Misfits that fought along with them. I loved seeing

Spoiler

David Thewlis in a different role than as a hero. Although I did understand his POV to some extent. He felt very much like an Anti-hero as opposed to a villain. I didn't predict that, but I think its also a testament to good storytelling that I was so engaged in the story I didn't feel the need to pick it apart as I was watching it. Then again, looking back the "work out of my office" and have a lot of money should have been a big red flag.

I loved the Amazons!! Holy Cannoli, could they fight!! And lead by Robin Wright, who was awesome.  I loved those action scenes. And to be honest, most of the things about the 40s fight scenes I enjoyed were Diana showing off what she learned from her Amazon days - SHIELD!! I enjoyed that there was also a female villain.

I loved that it pulled from Greek Mythology, Comics history, WWI ideology/history, and social issues that are still present today. I loved that is was not black and white, that it addressed some of the moral ambiguity of war. That being said, I also found it important to show that there are some purely evil things that should not be done. I loved that although the lessons taught and learned were not brand new concepts, they were still relevant and important to learn. It felt timely and not condescending or preachy.

I think the film was beautifully shot. I think they included quality action sequences and CGI, but it did not overwhelm the story. I loved that the characters were explored and given personalities, ideas and a POV. I loved that the story was coherent and interwoven. I loved that it was an origin story that felt like an actual story on it's own right. It wasn't just thrown together or done to line the studios coffers. I loved that it had comedy, mythos, drama, intrigue, action and romance. It really blended so many different genres in a successful and sophisticated way.

All in all I think the film was pretty solid. There is very little that I can complain about. There were a few flaws, and there were a few things I did not like. But honestly, it is so minimal in comparison to how much I enjoyed. It was not a short movie, and at no point was I ever bored or disengaged. Overall I loved the film!! Glad it is making herstory. :)

Lastly,

PS - Her cheeky commentary on women was one of the top scenes in the film. I appreciated the humor, considering the sad reality of how women are often perceived or treated today.

Edited June 25, 2017 by kismet
typo

[Delphi]

7 hours ago, LeighAn said:

WestAllen are like vanilla ice cream to me it's there, there's nothing wrong with the flavour, but there's just so many more exciting interesting and better flavours of ice cream that why would you limit yourself to vanilla

I love vanilla ice cream,  so I don't wanna compare WestAllen to that at all.   But I do wanna make a Rocky Road comparison for Olicity because I just woke up and think out would be amusing. 

5 hours ago, LeighAn said:

 

Arrow and Flash DO share writers and MULTIPLE producers. Ben Solowski, Keto Shismu, Brian Q Miller among them.

I think Bryan has only written a couple of episodes of each show, possibly as a favour to the producers/DC,  I don't think he's actually a staff writer,  which is a shame cause his run on Batgirl was one of the best things in the entire universe.   Not the dc universe,  the universe universe. 

[johntfs]

9 hours ago, LeighAn said:

My objection to WestAllen getting married first is god damn it I had to sit through RAY, through baby momma, through billygoat, through Rayporter, through three fake deaths and Alsahim Oliver. What's the worst WestAllen been through? They sang love songs about each other. We've freaking earnt this! Haha

Do you want an "Olicity" divorce, too?  I'm fine with then continuing to slow-play things between Felicity and Oliver.