Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[tv echo]

Seasons 1-2 review: The Super-flaw with Supergirl
Zoya Raza-Sheikh   April 30, 2017
http://www.impactnottingham.com/2017/04/seasons-1-2-review-super-flaw-supergirl/

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Yet this smart playing was challenged by their biggest obstacle: Mon-El of Daxamite (Chris Wood).  Not only is this character outrageously outdated, misogynistic, abusive and poorly constructed, but the Supergirl writers decided to make him Kara Danvers’ love interest. All things considered, this isn’t the worst part, what makes this much worse is that it all could have been easily avoided with smart thinking and side lining his character to a good-natured side-kick. Oh, just making things clear, this isn’t an unjustified feminist rant about a male character. In episode 33, titled “Mr. & Mrs. Mxyzptlc”, Mon-El (and I quote) says: “things were easier on Daxam when I objectified women and didn’t care about anyone.” I wasn’t a fan of Mon-El’s character at first but the toxic on-screen relationship between the two is uncomfortable, disjointed and dysfunctional.

Overall, it seems The CW improved ever so slightly on CBS’ attempt, but the introduction of Mon-El backtracked any progress and the rumoured use of queer-baiting by screenwriters and producers is simply disappointing. Dare I say it, not even the permanent introduction of Lena Luthor (Katie McGrath) can sway me to continue up to season 3. The CW have lost the plot – quite literally – and seem to have given up on Kara Danvers. Who knows, maybe it’s time to offer Supergirl her own show to really shine… oh wait, they already did that.

Edited May 1, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

LoT-related posts at https://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/ on May 1...

avian248 asked:
Holy crap LOT is actually my fave show on television. I love the way that the mechanic of time travel is handled so much, and also the general plot and also how everyone has such clean character arcs.
Thank you for watching!

benchpressabear asked:
Hope you consider Amaury Nolasco to guest-star on Legends. For many reasons... but also for the added bonus of completing the Prison Break set!
Love Amaury!

missmudpie asked:
I'm not on Twitter, so I can't respond there, but I saw the discussion about feminism that occurred last night (4/30), and wanted to say I'm glad you so adamantly stated that feminism is about equality. I'm looking forward to seeing this equality reflected in your shows' directors. So far, only 16 of Arrow's 115 episodes, and 5/33 LOT episodes, have been directed by a woman (14% and 15%, respectively). Can we expect a more equal ratio next season?
We’re always working to improve diversity in the writing and directing ranks.  That said, I view the current statistics regarding racial diversity to be as concerning as those for gender diversity – and vice versa.  This year, 50% of Arrow’s directors were “diverse” (female and/or non-white) and we’re looking to do better in Season 6.  We’re aiming for similar diversity in Legends’ directors in Season 3.

Edited May 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

10 TV Pilots Likely to Score Series Pickups
MAY 01, 2017 5:00am PT by Lesley Goldberg
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/10-tv-pilots-score-series-pickups-998667

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9. Black Lightning (CW)
After getting a pass from Fox, who developed the DC Comics drama, Greg Berlanti is likely to land another superhero show on the younger-skewing network. The Cress Williams starrer from Salim and Mara Brock Akil produced a short pilot presentation and is being eyed for a midseason run, sources say. That would bring Berlanti's CW haul to six shows on the network's schedule alone. It's unclear if The CW, which has yet to make a decision on Warner Bros. Television-produced bubble shows The Originals and iZombie, will pick up two or four pilots. If the network goes for four, the other WBTV slot is between Berlanti's other CW pilot, Searchers, which is said to be in good shape after a challenging taping, or Lucy Hale's Life Sentence, with the latter considered more likely get the call.

[tv echo]

Supergirl's Alex Danvers is the Original Character Andrew Kreisberg is Most Proud Of
Russ Burlingame- 05/01/2017
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/05/02/supergirls-alex-danvers-is-the-original-character-andrew-kreisbe/

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It might be pretty difficult to out-charm John Diggle, but as far as Arrow and Supergirl executive producer Andrew Kreisberg is concerned, that's exactly what Chyler Leigh's Alex Danvers has done.
*  *  *
Saying that his previous favorite original character -- one who didn't appear in the comics, not one who was merely drastically changed like Felicity Smoak or Maggie Sawyer -- was John Diggle, but that Alex has managed to unseat Oliver's right-hand man.

"I had previously been most proud of Dig. Now, it's definitely Alex," Kreisberg told ComicBook.com. "I think that we're just the lucky guys and girls who get to tell this leg of the characters' journeys. You sort of just hope that you can add to it and add to the collective story that is told over so many decades. The idea, like with Green Arrow, that John Diggle has become part of his universe. Now Diggle is in the comic books not written by us. People have just embraced that character."

And he expects that to happen with Alex, too, considering how much the audience has warmed to her.

"And that future generations of Green Arrow storytellers might have John Diggle as part of his world is just so cool to us," Kreisberg added. "Similarly, with Alex, that Supergirl has never really had a sister before and yet hopefully now people feel like that relationship is almost indispensable to interpretations of her. And I think Alex is one of my favorite characters I've ever gotten to write. I think that what's so interesting about her is that Alex would be the star of her own show, except for the fact that her sister is Supergirl. She's a doctor and an alien fighting secret agent. If she played an instrument, she'd be Buckaroo Banzai. She's this amazing character and she's only overshadowed by the fact that her sister is the Girl of Steel. And I think that's so interesting that she's both her sister's protector, and teacher, and confidant. But then can't do half the things that Kara can do and yet is so resourceful on her own. I just think she's just such an amazingly interesting, complex, and funny, and deep, and emotional. And just the journey that she went through regarding her own sexuality this year. She's never not interesting. There's no situation you can put her in where I don't think she's the most interesting person in the room."

The Flash: Get the scoop on Killer Frost showdown
NATALIE ABRAMS MAY 1, 2017
http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/01/flash-killer-frost-spoilers/

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With Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) on death’s door, Team Flash was recently forced to unleash her villainous alter ego, Killer Frost, thus turning their former ally into an icy foe, hell-bent on making them all pay. “Obviously her meta powers have severely messed with her mind, so it’s not like Barry Allen, who is still Barry Allen even though he got super speed,” executive producer Andrew Kreisberg explains. “Her brain chemistry has been severely altered.”

“It’s now a question of: Is there a way to eliminate these powers and get Caitlin back?” Kreisberg continues. “Is there a way to get Caitlin back and leave her with these powers? We say these last few episodes are about them trying to save Iris’ [Candice Patton] life, but they’re also trying to save Caitlin’s soul. What is Cisco [Carlos Valdes] willing to do to save his best friend? What is Julian [Tom Felton] willing to do to save the woman he loves?”
*  *  *
Unfortunately for Barry (Grant Gustin) & Co., Killer Frost also subsequently and swiftly aligned with Savitar upon learning the speedster’s identity during last week’s episode. “There’s a relationship that exists there that prompts Killer Frost to turn her loyalty to Savitar very quickly,” Panabaker teases. “Once it becomes clear who Savitar is, you start to understand why Killer Frost aligned with him so quickly. Killer Frost’s quick alignment with Savitar informs a lot of the decisions that she makes.”
*  *  *
“Obviously Danielle Panabaker is not going anywhere,” Kreisberg adds. “How and if she becomes Caitlin Snow again, or she remains Killer Frost or a version of Killer Frost, into season 4, you’re going to have to tune in.”

Whatever happens, Panabaker believes if and when Caitlin does return, she will come back a changed woman — possibly even suffering PTSD from what Killer Frost has wrought in her place. “I don’t know if we’ll even be able to see Caitlin again, but as you’ll see in episode 21, it becomes clear that Caitlin Snow and Killer Frost do occupy the same body and that they have the same memories,” Panabaker says. “The things Caitlin remembers, Killer Frost can access as well. It’s more a question of if she chooses to and how she feels about Caitlin’s memories. I do think it will be difficult not only for Caitlin but all of team flash to reconcile Killer Frost’s bad behavior under the guise Caitlin Snow’s face.”

Edited May 2, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Suzanne Gomez is now The CW's Senior Vice President, Primetime Publicity, for Arrow, The Flash and Supergirl.  Her title used to be just Vice President, Primetime Publicity.

Kellie Kulikowsky is now The CW's Executive Director, Primetime Publicity, for LoT. Her title used to be just Director, Primetime Publicity.

Paul Carpenter is The CW's Executive Director, Photo Publicity, for Arrow, LoT and Supergirl.  

Caitlin Ocegueda is The CW's Coordinator, Photo Publicity, for The Flash.

Source: http://www.cwtvpr.com/the-cw/contacts

Edited May 2, 2017 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

They really should've pulled an Illyria w/Caitlin. 

[Velocity23]

SG once again  got a 0.5 

Edited May 2, 2017 by Velocity23

[Morrigan2575]

SG is down and staying down. I wonder why?

Is it just more impacted by long breaks or nice weather?

People just get tired of it or turned off by something?

Is there some new competition on Mondays? Could it be Dancing with the Stars?

[Starfish35]

Wow.  So last week wasn't a fluke.  The CW can't be happy about that.   Is anything other than The Flash getting above a 0.5 these days?

Edited May 2, 2017 by Starfish35

[tennisgurl]

Even reading interviews, I still have no idea why they are doing Caitlyn/Killer Frost the way that they are. Why are her powers changing her brain chemistry when they don't change anyone else's? Why can she access her powers every once in awhile and it doesn't affect her, but other times she turns evil every time she uses her powers? What do ice powers have to do with brain chemistry? They could have done something with this to explain it more, but they never have, and it looks like they never will.

And, yes, it bugs me how even the writers are talking about saving Caitlyn (and Iris) is all focused around how the guys around them are trying to save the girls. As I've said before, it wouldn't bother me as much if it wasn't happening at the exact same time, to the only main female characters. They're just the helpless damsels who must be saved by the men who love them. I'm normally not the person crying sexism, but even I think this is getting pretty bad.

[Velocity23]

Supergirl was also apparently preempted/interrupted in some markets due to tornado coverage. 

[wonderwall]

It's weird that they went down from 1.1 to 0.5 That's such a sharp decline. I wonder what's going on? Has the show been that poor in quality?

Edited May 2, 2017 by wonderwall

[Morrigan2575]

11 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Supergirl was also apparently preempted/interrupted in some markets due to tornado coverage. 

Yeah but, that shouldn't have a huge impact unless it's a Top 10 market.

[Starfish35]

And preemptions would inflate the preliminary ratings, not lower them, wouldn't they?

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

It's weird that they went down from 1.1 to 0.5 That's such a sharp decline. I wonder what's going on? Has the show been that poor in quality?

Not having data to go off on, but offhand I could kind of see a decline in viewers possibly from some of the plot choices that kind of tick off all different types of general audiences. Like, Mon-el/that romantic subplot could have alienated some people, the political references could have alienated some people, Alex/Maggie could have alienated some people, kind of stewing between ending one villain and setting up another could have alienated some people, hiatus with no big drawback, etc. (not saying what I think of those things, just possibilities that I can see from watching). Nothing so big and abrupt that I could point to off of the top of my head, though.

[manbearpig]

35 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Even reading interviews, I still have no idea why they are doing Caitlyn/Killer Frost the way that they are. Why are her powers changing her brain chemistry when they don't change anyone else's? Why can she access her powers every once in awhile and it doesn't affect her, but other times she turns evil every time she uses her powers? What do ice powers have to do with brain chemistry? They could have done something with this to explain it more, but they never have, and it looks like they never will.

And, yes, it bugs me how even the writers are talking about saving Caitlyn (and Iris) is all focused around how the guys around them are trying to save the girls. As I've said before, it wouldn't bother me as much if it wasn't happening at the exact same time, to the only main female characters. They're just the helpless damsels who must be saved by the men who love them. I'm normally not the person crying sexism, but even I think this is getting pretty bad.

I haven't seen the latest episode, but if they were going to go there they should have committed to the villainy. Presumably they want Caitlin as a bad guy to shake things up a little and raise the stakes before they can get back to Savitar and end the season, but they still want to keep Caitlin around as a member of the team so they can't make her an actual villain. But this weird thing with Caitlin's powers means that she's basically been possessed, so it takes a little of the power away from her actions, because none of it can really be blamed on her, so it's all very odd, and that's not even getting into the thing about a woman being seemingly the only person on the whole show who can't control her abilities. 

[statsgirl]

23 minutes ago, manbearpig said:

But this weird thing with Caitlin's powers means that she's basically been possessed, so it takes a little of the power away from her actions, because none of it can really be blamed on her, so it's all very odd, and that's not even getting into the thing about a woman being seemingly the only person on the whole show who can't control her abilities. 

We complain about about MG's misogyny but it's really AK who is the worst.

That said, no. Marc, bringing in men from other ethnic groups does not count towards not having women directors.

[Oreo2234]

Quote

Not having data to go off on, but offhand I could kind of see a decline in viewers possibly from some of the plot choices that kind of tick off all different types of general audiences. Like, Mon-el/that romantic subplot could have alienated some people, the political references could have alienated some people, Alex/Maggie could have alienated some people, kind of stewing between ending one villain and setting up another could have alienated some people, hiatus with no big drawback, etc. (not saying what I think of those things, just possibilities that I can see from watching). Nothing so big and abrupt that I could point to off of the top of my head, though.

I generally enjoy the show but after starting off strong for the first several episodes (especially the first three) the writing has been a lot more uneven, the season has lacked focus and has had trouble balancing characters and plots. And it has neglected some of the important relationships from last season. I actually think the last couple of episodes were pretty good but the return episode was technically kinda of a filler with not much relevance to the main arc of the season.  

Edited May 2, 2017 by Oreo2234

[jay741982]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

SG is down and staying down. I wonder why?

Is it just more impacted by long breaks or nice weather?

People just get tired of it or turned off by something?

Is there some new competition on Mondays? Could it be Dancing with the Stars?

Well I know for me Mon-el getting forced down my throat and eating up screen time that Kara could have with Jimmy Winn Alex and John along with them changing Karas personality a bit for Doucheboy has soured me on the show a bit 

[Oreo2234]

Quote

Is there some new competition on Mondays?

I do recall the ratings going significantly down after some big reality show (can't remember the name) had its winter premiere.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Oreo2234

[way2interested]

12 minutes ago, Oreo2234 said:

I generally enjoy the show but after starting off strong for the first several episodes (especially the first three) the writing has been a lot more uneven, the season has lacked focus and has had trouble balancing characters and plots. And it has neglected some of the important relationships from last season. I actually think the last couple of episodes were pretty good but the return episode was technically kinda of a filler with not much relevance to the main arc of the season.  

Oh I agree, I was just trying to think of plot points that might have turned people away. That's generally how I've been seeing this season too. I still like it, but there's been a severe lack of focus as to where this season is supposed to go/supposed to have gone. And they have kind of pushed aside their relationships (some which annoy me like for Mon-El and Maggie, but some that actually entertain me like Lena and Winn's gf) because of all of the new characters. Although I think the main problem is the aspect of having no drive or immediacy for the last few episodes, coming from their problem of no focus. There hasn't been an exciting build-up for the season, and I think the return episode didn't really help to drum up more excitement.

[Velocity23]

Unrounded numbers ....

Supergirl ............................. 0.474 ... (0.487 ... 0.461)
Jane the Virgin ................... 0.240 ... (0.254 ... 0.226)

http://www.spottedratings.com/2017/05/spotted-ratings-monday-5117.html

[Morrigan2575]

Similar to last week's unrounded.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

We complain about about MG's misogyny but it's really AK who is the worst.

That said, no. Marc, bringing in men from other ethnic groups does not count towards not having women directors.

Exactly.  Upping the diversity, that's nice, but it's skirting the issue raised. How about upping the diversity AND representing half the population in the world? How about going 50/50 with the genders and include diversity in both halves of that number? Try reflecting the real world. Having 85%percent of their directors male but basically claiming a pass from needing to include more female voices cause another 35% are at least not all white, yep, how could I have ever doubted his commitment to feminism?

How can he go on and on about hypocrisy and feminism meaning giving equal treatment and then act like 15% is equal?  

[leopardprint]

His response was basically "binders full of women," and "aren't non-white dudes basically the same thing?". 

Also, I don't understand how LA's comment was hypocritical from MG's (warped) view. The claim she's responding to is that women directors don't make money so they don't get hired, so Sony's movies (presumably directed by men) lost money and she jokes don't hire men.

I don't know why I am trying to understand this idiot.  

Edited May 2, 2017 by leopardprint

[Velocity23]

Monday finals

[Morrigan2575]

Not much of an adjustment in Finals.

[statsgirl]

In last night's episode of Supergirl, Alex was kidnapped for reasons and Maggie and Kara desperately tried to find her as the clock ran down and her prison filled up with water.  Kara and Maggie get the kidnapper's father to suggest a location. Cut to the next scene as Kara and Maggie walk in together (did they take an Uber?  Drive there in Maggie's car?) and it isn't till Kara hears Alex's desperate banging that she puts on her Supergirl speed and saves Alex in the nick of time.

Did it not occur to anyone working on the show, the writers, the EPS, the actors, that if they're all so desperate to save Alex, Kara should have used her super speed to rush to save her instead of waiting for Maggie to get there to have the big emotional Alex/Maggie moment?

That kind of bad writing can't be overcome by throwing more comic book characters and more Superman episodes at me.  Also they took away  Catco,  Kara/Alex and Kara/Winn/Jimmy season. and gave me Kara/Mon El instead. 

Edited May 2, 2017 by statsgirl

[TwistedandBored]

@statsgirl, this sounds like a boring af episode. Where was Hank in all of this?

Seriously, every time someone tells me what's going on with Supergirl and how the obsession with Mon El is going, I say to myself, "I made a good decision to stop watching it."  

[leopardprint]

I don't watch Supergirl, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it really sounds like they are trying to sneak a male co-lead in there with Mon-El? MG's Twitter idiocy might have me seeing sexist ghosts everywhere in the CW/GB universe. 

Edited May 2, 2017 by leopardprint

[SmallScreenDiva]

Supergirl needed a viable ship and both James and Winn weren't sparking with Kara, so I get that they needed to pivot and bring somebody else in, but has the romance overtaken the show? Are there any complaints from the comic book crowd? I don't watch the show nor am I familiar with the fandom so I'm curious how this is being received. Or is it OK because the lead character is a girl and so romance is expected?

[Mellowyellow]

Imo the courting phase of Kara and Mon El was very juvenile and annoying. I thought they wrote Kara all waffly and silly.  They are together now and they are pretty decent together. They're cute and functional. 

No idea about comic crowd but lots of people on Twitter seem to like them!

[Hiveminder]

4 hours ago, leopardprint said:

His response was basically "binders full of women," and "aren't non-white dudes basically the same thing?". 

Also, I don't understand how LA's comment was hypocritical from MG's (warped) view. The claim she's responding to is that women directors don't make money so they don't get hired, so Sony's movies (presumably directed by men) lost money and she jokes don't hire men.

I don't know why I am trying to understand this idiot.  

Sometimes I really wonder how a character like Felicity ended up on Arrow. There are still issues with the way she's handled, but how did these yahoos manage to create a pretty decently awesome female character like her? 

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, Hiveminder said:

Sometimes I really wonder how a character like Felicity ended up on Arrow. There are still issues with the way she's handled, but how did these yahoos manage to create a pretty decently awesome female character like her? 

They continue to let her be awesome and have given her some smashing moments over the series imo. I'm kinda flabbergasted sometimes!

I watch Madam Secretary and I'd say Felicity is as awesome as Bess (my other favorite on TV equal to Felicity) which is a miracle since she's being written by the likes of MG!

[way2interested]

32 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

Where was Hank in all of this?

He was helping to find Alex. There was a nice scene between him and Kara when she was referencing feeling powerless to do anything despite being Supergirl and he mentioned that she wasn't the only one who was worried about Alex (to set up Kara taking a page from Maggie's book in the climax). The episode was mostly a Kara vs Maggie episode.

9 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I don't watch Supergirl, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it really sounds like they are trying to sneak a male co-lead in there with Mon-El? MG's Twitter idiocy might have me seeing sexist ghosts everywhere in the CW/GB universe. 

He's actually been more of support, especially of lately. It's just that portions of the plot that feature on him take on an extra focus on him compared to Kara's stake in the plot, along with instances of inserting him in plots/scenes (even if he's still playing support) that just make you feel like the writers are trying too hard because they like him so much (and that includes female writers, exec producers, and showrunner). He's already a regular, so any advancement in him being as much as a lead as Kara would only happen akin to how Felicity became basically female lead for Arrow (because they liked her/her role in the story more than what they had), which I don't think would be as much as sexist in this case as just having weird tastes in characters (not to mention probably wanting to keep their lead happy), although I don't think it would happen because Mon-el has been more immediately polarizing than say Felicity was (not to mention you never know what will happen when mixing work with pleasure...). 

8 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Supergirl needed a viable ship and both James and Winn weren't sparking with Kara, so I get that they needed to pivot and bring somebody else in, but has the romance overtaken the show? Are there any complaints from the comic book crowd? I don't watch the show nor am I familiar with the fandom so I'm curious how this is being received. Or is it OK because the lead character is a girl and so romance is expected?

Their romance was a significant subplot (since it's the main character's romance) and is the driving force of the motivation for the villain, but their romance has only been the A-plot for a few episodes and Mon-el's been kind of on the side for the last few episodes and in episodes where the romance is basically the C-plot or so. Whether people like/hate the romance basically is dependent on whether you like/hate Mon-el, from what I've seen from all sides of the fandom (admittedly not all that much, but a mix of types). Either that or you're completely indifferent/don't like romance in shows in general, but I've seen comic fans who like Mon-el's storyline and like the pairing and I've seen comic fans who hate Mon-el and hate their romance mostly because at this point in the story they think Kara should be alone. 

[BkWurm1]

Mon-El has settled into his role finally and I think they are getting him right, so he's not bugging me any more, plus right now I'm enjoying Mon-El's existence 'cause I'm enjoying Teri Hatcher as his evil mother bent on making the world pay for her son not doing what she wanted.  As for the romance, it's not awful, but it's a bit too much how I feel about Barry and Iris.  It's too much a puppy love.  They don't capture my interest.   I won't root against them but at times it's hard to care at all.  

Actually I think I'd rank them below my interest in Iris and Barry.  

Edited May 2, 2017 by BkWurm1

[leopardprint]

14 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

Sometimes I really wonder how a character like Felicity ended up on Arrow. There are still issues with the way she's handled, but how did these yahoos manage to create a pretty decently awesome female character like her? 

They weren't paying attention at the start because she was the "tech support" character not the "love interest character" or "power pose bad ass chick" character. Actually, I think the female characters they truly failed were Laurel but at least she had ownership of her failures and S3 Thea. Sara's death was laughable but otherwise I liked her character, and the erasure of Baby Sara will never be ok. Susan was definitely a mixed bag of sexist reporter tropes. 

@way2interested, thanks for indulging my post, I have lots of other uninformed opinions about Supergirl but I will refrain from posting them. ?And I didn't realize the actors were also dating, that's definitely a factor. 

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

 As for the romance, it's not awful, but it's a bit too much how I feel about Barry and Iris.  They don't capture my interest in that way.  I won't root against them but at times it's hard to care at all.

I feel like some of the problem is that Iris (CP) is doing the heavy lifting chemistry wise there and Barry seems so juvenile to me. I'm like you're too young to get married! Graduate from high school first! 

It's kinda hilarious that the Arrow Olicity fandom has been subsisting on stray red pens and sneaky heart eyes while Flash and Supergirl have plopped their main romances smack dab in the center of the show. 

[Mellowyellow]

I like Kara/Mon El more than Barry and Iris because they are perkier and I like perky! 

@leopardprint but them heart eyes are the best heart eyes in the business!!!!! 

[wonderwall]

Can I just say... I feel so blessed to not ship a couple where one of them (even if it's a future self) wants to kill the other? 

:')

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Supergirl needed a viable ship and both James and Winn weren't sparking with Kara, so I get that they needed to pivot and bring somebody else in, but has the romance overtaken the show?

I think it's more than the fact that they needed a viable romance (personally I think either Winn or James would have worked if the writing hadn't killed it); it feels like they wanted a male co-lead.  It really feels like they can't have a show about a female superhero. The first couple of episodes this season had Superman to co-star with her, since then it's been all about Mon El.  They find his capsule, they bring him awake, Kara takes him on as a project, he's a jerk until he decides he wants in her pants and then he decides he's going to be a superhero not to be a better person but because he wants to mate with her.  And then, surprise!, he's not really the manservant the prince sacrificed himself to save, he's the prince the manservant died for!  And Kara is mad at him for lying so they bring in the Music Meister on The Flash to get her to get back together with Mon El again.

You may think that Laurel or Felicity divided the fandom but it's nothing like Mon El.  They've  moved him down down now to Kara support at the moment from being the star of the show probably because of fan reaction but his plot will start up again with his evil mother. But for most of the season he's been the A plot and they've sacrificed Kara/Alex, Kara/Hank/Alex, Catco, Kara/Winn/James and most especially James to make Mon El the co-lead.

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

There was a nice scene between him and Kara when she was referencing feeling powerless to do anything despite being Supergirl and he mentioned that she wasn't the only one who was worried about Alex (to set up Kara taking a page from Maggie's book in the climax).

And that is the only Hank/Kara scene I can recall all season.

I'm not a fan of Barry/Iris (I much preferred Eddie/Iris) but neither Barry nor Iris is the kind of fratboy is the kind of I spent my time in college avoiding.  It's better in the last couple of episodes because he's been barely there but Mon El and Kara as a couple make a beautiful couples of tweens.

My problem with Mon El, and Supergirl this season, is that they are spending too much time on  him to the detriment of all the other characters.  Even Alex/Kara scenes are barely there any more.

[Sakura12]

Why does Barry get days named for him and coffee when he's the one that causes all the trouble in the first place? Once again Team Flash is trying to save the city from the destruction that Barry caused. Central City would probably be better off if Flash wasn't there. 

As for Supergirl, it's become the journey of Mon-El guest starring Supergirl. I guess they got really scared that a girl couldn't carry a show by herself. That's why I just laugh when I still see people saying Supergirl is about girl empowerment. Last season it was, this season has been taken over by the male heroes. Supegirl the most powerful woman on that Earth needs to be saved by a regular human in Guardian and a less powered alien in Mon-El. 

[statsgirl]

15 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Supegirl the most powerful woman on that Earth needs to be saved by a regular human in Guardian and a less powered alien in Mon-El. 

And her cousin Superman. Don't forget about him.

[Sakura12]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

And her cousin Superman. Don't forget about him.

I was semi okay with that only because at least he has the same power set as her and has more experience.  Guardian has a lead suit and Mon-El is not as strong, not as fast and can't fly. I get that they needed to show Superman because last season everyone was moaning that he wasn't there. I didn't care because the show is called Supergirl, I didn't need to see him. He left after 2 episodes so he served his purpose. Guardian and Mon-El are still there rescuing Kara when she suddenly forgets she has super speed, super strength, freezing breath, heat vision, can fly and see through walls. While those 2 can do none of those things. 

[statsgirl]

I thought I read that Superman was coming back but I could be misremembering.

While Mon El is just the bestest with Supergirl, I don't think Guardian has had to save her yet.  That's one of my problems with this season, that last year I got Kara saving the city with Winn and James as back-up, Winn  barely works with her any more and I don't think James has work with her at all this season.  It's all Kara/Mon el with the DEO as back-up and Winn/Lyra/James for comic relief.

[way2interested]

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I thought I read that Superman was coming back but I could be misremembering.

He is, there's a fight scene between him and Kara in the finale.

[TwistedandBored]

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Can I just say... I feel so blessed to not ship a couple where one of them (even if it's a future self) wants to kill the other? 

:')

That is not such a bad thing really. I mean have shipped many couples who at some point wanted to kill each other. Basically I ship messy couples. 

If anything this makes WestAllen even more interesting provided they don't silence Iris.  

[nightwing877]

Wonder if the return of Superman and Cat will generate a viewership rise. Some people who followed the show from CBS might have tuned out. Maybe they don't like all the shipping and don't like Mon El. Supergirl's role is very limited, barely doing much with Kara's job at Catco - I hate that because Cat is gone they don't do more with her job, had Cat stayed the focus would of been bigger.

[BkWurm1]

Ugh.  The subplot between Caitlin and Cisco annoyed the hell out of me.  So Cisco's powers all come from a place of good.  It's not bad enough that his powers don't make him go evil, they have to be based on love and goodness?  The subtext of it seems to say Caitlin  at her core is evil.  Like some old school Eve tempted by the serpent therefore all women are essentially corrupt type belief.    

[wonderwall]

27 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

That is not such a bad thing really. I mean have shipped many couples who at some point wanted to kill each other. Basically I ship messy couples. 

YMMV. I think it's gross. so.....

28 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

If anything this makes WestAllen even more interesting provided they don't silence Iris.  

How have they been doing with her arc this year? Last I heard they mostly made it about Barry's manpain.

[TwistedandBored]

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

YMMV. I think it's gross. so.....

How have they been doing with her arc this year? Last I heard they mostly made it about Barry's manpain.

I guess everyone sees things differently too. As for Iris, they pretty much have sidelined her since we came back from the break. I am hoping this would cause he to snap out of whatever zen like mood she has been on currently.