Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[ruby24]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Just watched The Flash. I don't actually understand why Barry broke up with Iris.  Why do they need distance?  Whatever happened to not wasting the time they have?  

What's even weirder is that he was the one, at the beginning of this exact same episode, that was scared of Iris leaving him. So as soon as she says she's not, he says he's leaving her? What? That was literally this same exact episode.

I don't think the person who wrote that scene knew why it was happening either.

ETA: You know what, I'm actually wondering if they orchestrated this on purpose in terms of timing, because they knew that the musical episode was going to be about Barry and Kara's relationship problems. That episode's been planned since last summer.

Therefore, was there a direct order that they had to be split up at this moment in time (right before episode 17), even if they had no reason for it? Because they sure didn't bother to come up with one.

Edited March 15, 2017 by ruby24

[Trini]

51 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

Just watched The Flash. I don't actually understand why Barry broke up with Iris.

 

More thoughts on that in the Flash Relationships thread.

[Starfish35]

I was going to say...it'll be interesting to see the ratings, but....lol.  Yeah.  Who knows when that will happen? :)

[BkWurm1]

And now just finished LoT.  I really love this ridiculous show.  I never knew how much I needed Victor Garber singing Day-O, The Banana Boat Song until this episode.  And again, they manage to humanize the bad guy.  And I they got me to care about Nate's family.

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I was going to say...it'll be interesting to see the ratings, but....lol.  Yeah.  Who knows when that will happen? :)

Maybe this problem with the ratings will be the push the TV world needs to realize the whole system is archaic anyway. 

[Starfish35]

Well, as long as the current model of TV being funded by advertising exists, I'm not sure what else they can do. 

[dtissagirl]

Wait, Barry and Iris broke up after ONE EPISODE of being engaged? Weren't they supposed to FINALLY break the mold of the CW? This is the opposite of breaking the mold, CW.

[Midnight Lullaby]

At least Felicity was the one to break up with Oliver. Here Barry screws up and he still is the one to initiate the break up. Jeez, writers.

[tv echo]

Does this papp hate all couples in the Arrowverse? He often calls 'Olicity' names, and now 'WestAllen' as well (this is just so unprofessional)...

[Mellowyellow]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

And now just finished LoT.  I really love this ridiculous show.  I never knew how much I needed Victor Garber singing Day-O, The Banana Boat Song until this episode.  And again, they manage to humanize the bad guy.  And I they got me to care about Nate's family.

Maybe this problem with the ratings will be the push the TV world needs to realize the whole system is archaic anyway. 

Was my Ray a cutie pie today? I can't watch until Sunday!

[JJ928]

2 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

Wait, Barry and Iris broke up after ONE EPISODE of being engaged? Weren't they supposed to FINALLY break the mold of the CW? This is the opposite of breaking the mold, CW.

Not only that but Iris was ready to forgive him & accept the engagement, she told him as much, and he still broke up with her. I never watch Flash but I was bored with nothing else to do last night (sure I was a little lost). But that episode reminded me why I've hated Barry since season 1. How do you tell a woman you love that you only proposed to save her & you're moving out, after she's willing to take your lame ass back? UGH he is the worst. Whenever I think I hate OQ, I remember he could be more like Barry. This is why I don't like WA because Iris has always been my fave on the show.

Edited March 15, 2017 by JJ928

[dtissagirl]

8 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Does this papp hate all couples in the Arrowverse? He often calls 'Olicity' names, and now 'WestAllen' as well (this is just so unprofessional)...

What do you even mean by "unprofessional"? This guy is a vulture that hounds, stalks and accosts celebs in public places and bullies them into signing pictures. There's exactly ZERO professionalism in what he does.

[tv echo]

I haven't seen Jessica Jones, so I can't comment on this article...

15 Reasons Why Supergirl Is Better Than Jessica Jones
03.13.2017 by Kelsey Herschberger
http://www.cbr.com/reasons-supergirl-better-than-jessica-jones/

15. NO SUPERFLUOUS LOOSE ENDS
14. NO DISTRACTING TANGENTS
13. WILL SIMPSON IS USELESS
12. MEN ARE ALL THREATS ON JESSICA JONES
11. POSITIVE LGBTQ+ REPRESENTATION
10. KILGRAVE’S PORTRAYAL OF VICTIMIZATION
9. EXPLOITATION OF HOPE SCHLOTTMAN
8. BETTER SUPPORTING CHARACTERS
7. BETTER CREATIVE TEAM
6. YOU CAN BE HAPPY AND POWERFUL
5. MORE EFFECTIVE THEME
4. BETTER TONE CONSISTENCY
3. BETTER LOVE INTEREST DEVELOPMENT
2. BONDS OF SISTERHOOD
1. ARC OF THE PROTAGONIST

[Chaser]

21 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Does this papp hate all couples in the Arrowverse? He often calls 'Olicity' names, and now 'WestAllen' as well (this is just so unprofessional)...

I wonder if he 

Spoiler

would have thought the same thing before he found out about Olicity in 5x20.

[Sakura12]

22 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Was my Ray a cutie pie today? I can't watch until Sunday!

Ray was great in the last episode. He had some really great scenes. 

As for the Supergirl vs Jessica Jones article. Jessica and Trish are probably the most realistic friendship I've seen on tv. Supergirl has gone away from that this season. 

Love interest development sucks on both shows. However they are not really comparable, their tones are completely different. Jessica actually has to deal with stuff while on Supergirl everyone holds hands and it all works out. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Sakura12

[tv echo]

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I wonder if he 

  Reveal hidden contents

would have thought the same thing before he found out about Olicity in 5x20.

He was convinced they were over for good - and for some reason thought that MG had admitted to regretting ever making them a couple.

Edited March 15, 2017 by apinknightmare

[tv echo]

The Flash | Duet Trailer | The CW
Published on Mar 14, 2017, by The CW Television Network 

[Morrigan2575]

26 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

He was convinced they were over for good - and for some reason thought that MG had admitted to regretting ever making them a couple.

Someone is lacking in basic reading comprehension skills.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Bort]

Another reminder, if you see this: , your post does not need spoiler tags.

[looptab]

Wow, didn't know Darren Criss would be in it. Now I might even watch, hee :)

[apinknightmare]

19 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Another reminder, if you see this: , your post does not need spoiler tags.

I wasn't sure because even though this thread has Arrow in the title, it's not the main Arrow thread. Noted!

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

At least Felicity was the one to break up with Oliver. Here Barry screws up and he still is the one to initiate the break up. Jeez, writers.

Did you watch the episode? Because it was Iris who initiated the breakup over the most stupidest of reasons. I've already stated how I don't see why Barry couldn't be scared for AND love Iris at the same time. The writers just want it to be just the one: FEAR. As if he doesn't love her, hasn't been in love with her over half his life; never planned to ask her to marry him down the line.  Then Iris said not only did it seem he ONLY asked out of fear, but that he also didn't ask Joe's permission-something she didn't have a problem with until the "real" reason he proposed was "revealed" by that ass, Wally.

Barry just ended up agreeing with Iris that they shouldn't be together while he's hunting Savitar. Which is WAY BEYOND STOOPID and makes a lie of their relationship-they're good together and Barry has said, that "there's no Flash WITHOUT Iris." I'm blaming the hacks who call themselves writers and they can all just FUCK OFF.

But that's just me.

[finnaire]

With the Flash proposal and then the hopeful spoilers about an Arrow reconciliation, I started wondering if the EP's would actually let the main ships on both shows be in happy relationships at the same time. Looks like I may have gotten my answer. I thought they might prefer alternating so there wouldn't be angst/drama happening on both shows. Can't have too much of that going on all at once, doncha know. Sorry, WestAllen, but it does bode well for Olicity.

Edited March 15, 2017 by finnaire

[Starfish35]

Ratings Update

[apinknightmare]

32 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Then Iris said not only did it seem he ONLY asked out of fear, but that he also didn't ask Joe's permission-something she didn't have a problem with until the "real" reason he proposed was "revealed" by that ass, Wally.

Didn't he say last night that he proposed to her because he was trying to change the future? I never thought the "destiny" talk regarding the two of them was all that great - and it seemed to be a motivating factor for Iris when she was trying to figure out if she wanted to get involved with Barry. So, I don't think a "I was going to do it anyway, and this way maybe I can save you too" is such a great foundation. I get having doubts about it since Barry wasn't doing it purely out of a desire to be married to her. I don't think that's a stupid reason to question things. 

And didn't she ultimately decide that she did want to be married to him? It seemed like she was admitting that she was wrong and that what she was concerned about ultimately didn't matter in the long run, and then Barry asked her for space. So, while Iris initially expressed doubts, Barry's the one who actually followed through with it.

[Morrigan2575]

18 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Didn't he say last night that he proposed to her because he was trying to change the future? I never thought the "destiny" talk regarding the two of them was all that great - and it seemed to be a motivating factor for Iris when she was trying to figure out if she wanted to get involved with Barry. So, I don't think a "I was going to do it anyway, and this way maybe I can save you too" is such a great foundation. I get having doubts about it since Barry wasn't doing it purely out of a desire to be married to her. I don't think that's a stupid reason to question things. 

And didn't she ultimately decide that she did want to be married to him? It seemed like she was admitting that she was wrong and that what she was concerned about ultimately didn't matter in the long run, and then Barry asked her for space. So, while Iris initially expressed doubts, Barry's the one who actually followed through with it.

Yes, the scene in the Loft was pretty clear that Iris wanted the engagement to be back on but, this time Barry called it off.

I'd go a step further, Iris seemed to call the engagement off while not really ending anything (dating/living together). However, last night Barry called everything off, engagement, living together, dating

Edited March 15, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

As far as we know, Iris just called off the engagement. Barry called off the relationship...

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Yes, the scene in the Loft was pretty clear that Iris wanted the engagement to be back on but, this time Barry called it off.

Thanks - I haven't watched Flash in a while and last night I was only half paying attention, so I wasn't sure if I missed anything!

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Thanks - I haven't watched Flash in a while and last night I was only half paying attention, so I wasn't sure if I missed anything!

During that conversation i fully expected Iris to be like dude, catch a clue and re-propose.

At least that's how CP played the scene, IMO.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

Also, this set up is kinda dumbtastic in that Barry proposed because he knew Iris wasn't wearing a ring in the death scene he saw... which he knows the exact date of... so, you know, maybe put a ring on her finger that day, and make sure she wears different clothes that day, and maybe travel to another city that day, and rent a panic room underground, or something.

It hurts my heart when tv shows are this dumb about time travel.

Edited March 15, 2017 by dtissagirl

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Did you watch the episode? Because it was Iris who initiated the breakup over the most stupidest of reasons. I've already stated how I don't see why Barry couldn't be scared for AND love Iris at the same time. The writers just want it to be just the one: FEAR. As if he doesn't love her, hasn't been in love with her over half his life; never planned to ask her to marry him down the line.  Then Iris said not only did it seem he ONLY asked out of fear, but that he also didn't ask Joe's permission-something she didn't have a problem with until the "real" reason he proposed was "revealed" by that ass, Wally.

Barry just ended up agreeing with Iris that they shouldn't be together while he's hunting Savitar. Which is WAY BEYOND STOOPID and makes a lie of their relationship-they're good together and Barry has said, that "there's no Flash WITHOUT Iris." I'm blaming the hacks who call themselves writers and they can all just FUCK OFF.

But that's just me.

I did and Barry in the last scene told her that he loved her but she was right, he proposed because he thought that was going to save her life. I'm not saying Barry doesn't love her, he does, but I also don't think he wants to get married to her right now. He isn't ready yet and that's a good reason for Iris to break off the engagement imo. It's natural she wants a proposal because Barry wants to spend the rest of his life with her and he is ready to do it now, not for other reasons. I don't like that the writers made Barry propose for the wrong reason AND be the one to break things off definitely since Iris seemed ready to take him back. She should have been the one to tell Barry to take the ring back and to take time to understand what he really wants and if/when it's to marry her to ask her again. If she'll still be there and feel the same they'll start their life together and for the right reason. And since we are on the subject a good way to start the next proposal would be with all the things he loves about Iris and why he wants to spend the rest of his life with her.

[tangerine95]

I don't get why they can't just date and why does it have to be marriage right now or nothing. They were rushing their relationship anyway so if neither of them are ready to be married and think its for the wrong reasons then they can just take it slower, I don't think thats a reason to break up. And it's kinda awful imo that Barry knows Iris might have her days numbered and is like I need space rn lol. You'd think he would want to make their time count just in case and be closer to her in those circumstances. Iris feeling suffocated by all the I have to save you stuff would make sense to me but Barry being the one to actually call it off doesn't. 

It doesn't seem like the Flash writers learned much from what Arrow did. They did a similar thing too. Had WA go from dating to living together, getting engaged and contrived breaking up in a span of 16 episodes.Maybe they wouldn't have to stall so much if they took it slower, there's like 2 seasons worth of development there. Tho not a lot of break up tropes are worse than baby mama drama the way arrow played it out so I guess they avoided something like that. 

[catrox14]

Can we trade Barry for Eddie? I like Eddie SO MUCH more than Barry.

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

I haven't seen Jessica Jones, so I can't comment on this article...

15 Reasons Why Supergirl Is Better Than Jessica Jones
03.13.2017 by Kelsey Herschberger
http://www.cbr.com/reasons-supergirl-better-than-jessica-jones/

15. NO SUPERFLUOUS LOOSE ENDS
14. NO DISTRACTING TANGENTS
13. WILL SIMPSON IS USELESS
12. MEN ARE ALL THREATS ON JESSICA JONES
11. POSITIVE LGBTQ+ REPRESENTATION
10. KILGRAVE’S PORTRAYAL OF VICTIMIZATION
9. EXPLOITATION OF HOPE SCHLOTTMAN
8. BETTER SUPPORTING CHARACTERS
7. BETTER CREATIVE TEAM
6. YOU CAN BE HAPPY AND POWERFUL
5. MORE EFFECTIVE THEME
4. BETTER TONE CONSISTENCY
3. BETTER LOVE INTEREST DEVELOPMENT
2. BONDS OF SISTERHOOD
1. ARC OF THE PROTAGONIST

IMO this is an inapt comparison because those series are apples and oranges.

Jessica Jones is a dark character living in a dark world with a truly heinous villain in Kilgrave. 

Both (well IMO Supergirl did) have good feminist messages. But beyond that IMO that can't really be compared other than female superhero is the main character in both. JMHO.

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I don't get why they can't just date and why does it have to be marriage right now or nothing. They were rushing their relationship anyway so if neither of them are ready to be married and think its for the wrong reasons then they can just take it slower, I don't think thats a reason to break up. 

I agree. I guess the writers wanted to create relationship drama when simply calling off the engagement seemed the logical step. Because they don't seem to have other problems so it's really just an excuse to break them up. What I don't get is who they think they are entertaining with this type of SL. 

[Cleanqueen]

I just watched the flash episode...dear God get Iris West a real man. I have never been more angry at Barry than I was at that moment last night. How dare he? Who wrote this? I think even grant seemed a bit confused at what he was actually saying in that scene. Utter garbage. I hope Iris West finds a way to help save herself even though that will never happen.

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

IMO this is an inapt comparison because those series are apples and oranges.

I totally agree. The only things the shows really have in common, especially in tone and storyline, are that they are about female superheroes. Supergirl is a basically upbeat show about a cheerful superhero alien girl who fights aliens and stuff, while JJ is a noir style detective/revenge show about a human woman who got powers in an accident and fights street level bad guys. I agree with some of their criticisms of JJ (especially with the pointless subplots and some of the gender stuff), but they downplay some of the things it did well, and are ignoring some flaws in Supergirl. I like both shows, flaws and all, and find comparing them kind of pointless.

Does anyone remember when The Flash was the lighter, fun superhero show compared to Arrow? Those were good times. Not that it didn't already have darkness in it, but it had an optimistic tone and lovable characters. Now its just as angsty as Arrow, complete with pointless break ups and endless contrived angst. It still has good moments and episodes, but this Iris/Barry stuff is just pissing me off. There's no reason for them to break up besides DRAMA. How does their break up help anything, within the story and outside of it?

My fun superhero show is LoT now. SUCH a fun, well done show. Not saying its perfect, but its filled with likable characters and wacky comic book fun. There is drama, but it usually actually makes sense for the story and characters. I'm constantly announcing its praises. Its good now, guys, give it a chance!

[catrox14]

48 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

My fun superhero show is LoT now. SUCH a fun, well done show. Not saying its perfect, but its filled with likable characters and wacky comic book fun. There is drama, but it usually actually makes sense for the story and characters. I'm constantly announcing its praises. Its good now, guys, give it a chance!

I really enjoy LoT now. It is totally fun.

[BkWurm1]

10 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

Wait, Barry and Iris broke up after ONE EPISODE of being engaged? Weren't they supposed to FINALLY break the mold of the CW? This is the opposite of breaking the mold, CW.

Now, now, rubbing it in is not helpful, lol.  

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Was my Ray a cutie pie today? I can't watch until Sunday!

The makings of another unexpected bromance. Ray sooo has a type.  

 

 

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

My fun superhero show is LoT now. SUCH a fun, well done show. Not saying its perfect, but its filled with likable characters and wacky comic book fun. There is drama, but it usually actually makes sense for the story and characters. I'm constantly announcing its praises. Its good now, guys, give it a chance!

I feel like I want to shout this in a public street.  It's such a turnaround from last year.  I don't know how to convince people to give it a few episodes this year, cause it isn't a perfect start to the season but a few into it and it just starts firing on all cylinders.  Best use of characters of the whole Flarrowverse.  

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

The makings of another unexpected bromance. Ray sooo has a type.  

Maybe the real reason Felicity and Ray didn't work out is because Ray clearly has a weakness for bad boys :)

[Starfish35]

So the ratings are finally starting to come out.  Sunday's and Monday's numbers have been released.  Hopefully we'll get Tuesday's numbers yet today?  I'm thinking Wednesday's might still not come out until tomorrow though.

[Velocity23]

Quote

Panels and Q&A sessions with WonderCon newcomers Riverdale and Time After Time are set for Friday, March 31, with an exclusive screening of a new episode of Riverdale held on Saturday. Closing out the weekend are Lucifer and Gotham, along with Warner Bros. Animation’s hit DC superhero series Teen Titans Go! and Justice League Action. 

Riverdale, Gotham, Lucifer going to Wondercon. 

http://deadline.com/2017/03/wondercon-2017-wbtv-schedule-riverdale-gotham-1202044339/

[benteen]

22 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I totally agree. The only things the shows really have in common, especially in tone and storyline, are that they are about female superheroes. Supergirl is a basically upbeat show about a cheerful superhero alien girl who fights aliens and stuff, while JJ is a noir style detective/revenge show about a human woman who got powers in an accident and fights street level bad guys. I agree with some of their criticisms of JJ (especially with the pointless subplots and some of the gender stuff), but they downplay some of the things it did well, and are ignoring some flaws in Supergirl. I like both shows, flaws and all, and find comparing them kind of pointless.

Does anyone remember when The Flash was the lighter, fun superhero show compared to Arrow? Those were good times. Not that it didn't already have darkness in it, but it had an optimistic tone and lovable characters. Now its just as angsty as Arrow, complete with pointless break ups and endless contrived angst. It still has good moments and episodes, but this Iris/Barry stuff is just pissing me off. There's no reason for them to break up besides DRAMA. How does their break up help anything, within the story and outside of it?

My fun superhero show is LoT now. SUCH a fun, well done show. Not saying its perfect, but its filled with likable characters and wacky comic book fun. There is drama, but it usually actually makes sense for the story and characters. I'm constantly announcing its praises. Its good now, guys, give it a chance!

Totally agreed on Legends of Tomorrow.  It's my favorite of the Arrowverse shows and it's so much damn fun.  The Flash used to be fun but then they decided to go dark and have Barry be responsible for every threat they faced.

[Starfish35]

Tuesday Final Ratings

Flash and Legends stay at 0.9 and 0.5.

[strikera0]

LOT down to 1.339 million viewers. Holy crap! 

[Starfish35]

Yeah it's another series low in viewers for both Flash and Legends.

[Guest]

LOT aired at the same time Trump's tax returns were being discussed. I think that might've affected ratings in some way. 

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

LOT aired at the same time Trump's tax returns were being discussed. I think that might've affected ratings in some way. 

Pretty sure it's mostly daylight savings but yeah Maddow could've affected it a bit.

Edited March 16, 2017 by wonderwall

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Pretty sure it's mostly daylight savings but yeah Maddow could've affected it a bit.

Good point. I didn't even think of that tbh.

[kismet]

I think it's the Day Light Savings factor and also just the CW being the CW. I can never remember when the shows are new or in reruns, and its completely inconsistent throughout the week. I imagine a lot of people have given up to a certain degree. Really invested fans or people who have DVR will tune in either way, but people who have to make the effort to tune in, just might not think it's worth it. It becomes easier to just stream it whenever your schedule allows.

[BkWurm1]

And they have made streaming it pretty painless these days.