Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Genki]

Just want to share my love of The Non-Adventure of Wonderella

[tv echo]

When I was watching Gotham last night, there were two scenes during which I thought "the Arrow EPs should take notes":

 

1.  Barbara has left Jim Gordon.  After she was kidnapped by Falcone's henchman last week, she's now terrified and nervous all the time.  She leaves behind a note in which she says that she's scared, weak and needy, and can't be the girlfriend that Jim deserves, so she has to go away to get herself together.  Her note laid out all of the character's weaknesses, and the reasons that she is arguably the least popular character on Gotham.  For some reason, that surprisingly self-aware note made her more likeable to me.  (Of course, then she later cheats on Gordon and makes me dislike her again.)

-- The Arrow EPs should have Laurel acknowledge her faults and misdeeds (all the reasons why a lot of fans don't like her).  So far, she's gotten away with a lot of stuff - like the DUI, the blackmail, breaking the law, violating legal ethics, the abuse of power, etc., and her father has enabled her (except for calling her out on the riot squad order) - and she still strides forward like there's nothing wrong with her, her attitude or her behavior.  Have her show some self-awareness, some conscience.  Maybe she still won't be fixable for reasons other than the writing, but it'll be a good start.

 

2.  Alfred is teaching young Bruce how to box, and they're both wearing boxing gloves.  Bruce had been bullied by other schoolboys in a previous episode and asked Alfred to teach him how to fight.  Tween Selina Kyle, who's temporarily staying at Wayne Mansion in a kind of protective custody, sees them and asks why Bruce is learning how to fight when he lives in such a sheltered mansion.  Bruce says that it's for when he's out in the city.  Selina replies that they don't wear gloves out in the city.

-- I immediately thought of Arrow.  Learning to box isn't the same as learning martial arts.  Laurel and anyone she faces won't be wearing boxing gloves when she's out on the streets.

Edited November 19, 2014 by tv echo

[Lokiberry]

Also, Bruce and Selina had CHEMISTRY. There was a moment when Bruce first sees Selina, when he stops in his tracks and his eyes get wide, and you actually believe this is a the first meeting of two people who will be involved with each other (one way or another) for the rest of their lives.

 

How come the producers of Gotham can take such care with CHILD actors to get the right feeling for their comic book canon relationship, while certain other producers were apparently just relying on the character's names to make it all magically work out?

[BkWurm1]

They were all kinds of adorable when they had their food fight. Selina is such an interesting bit of casting. When she's silent or not moving, she looks mature way beyond her years. I forget that she's still just a young teenager until she opens her mouth. I like that they've made her wary but not mean. I also like that they have her more than a little self delusional about her mother and family. It was kind of heartbreaking but helped ground a character that is almost too perfect.

[Password]

I always enjoy seeing Selina Kyle. When she and Bruce met and he stopped and stared I was singing in my head "I just met my soulmate". Utterly adorable the two of them. She definitely seems older than Bruce.

And wtf was with Barbara????

[BkWurm1]

So tonight over on The Flash we learn that Iris has been taking boxing lessons since she was a toddler.  That means that even Iris the barista is better trained and more equipped to become Black Canary.  I mean, seriously?  SERIOUSLY??????!!! 

[wonderwall]

So tonight over on The Flash we learn that Iris has been taking boxing lessons since she was a toddler.  That means that even Iris the barista is better trained and more equipped to become Black Canary.  I mean, seriously?  SERIOUSLY??????!!! 

Omfg I just said the same exact thing on AV Club! *high five*

[calliope1975]

So tonight over on The Flash we learn that Iris has been taking boxing lessons since she was a toddler.  That means that even Iris the barista is better trained and more equipped to become Black Canary.  I mean, seriously?  SERIOUSLY??????!!! 

 

I felt the same way watching AoS tonight where Bobbi Morse was kicking ass and taking names. Even Skye (and Chloe Bennet), who for me began as borderline Mary Sue, has grown into her role and I now believe is a competent member of SHIELD. So many awesome women. The many ways TPTB botched Black Canary is impressive.

[tv echo]

The Flash is slipping down in my superhero show rankings, while Agents of SHIELD is moving up.

 

Flash - While Dr. Wells and Detective West remain the standouts of this show for me, I'm starting to feel like I'm watching the same villain story week after week: a superfreak created by the Star Labs explosion starts causing trouble; Barry has trouble defeating him or her at first, but eventually figures out a way to prevail.  Also, too many scenes remind me of scenes in other shows or movies.  It's disconcerting.  For example:

* Iris: "I'm a cop's daughter.  I know how to take care of myself." = Laurel: "Cop's daughter. Remember?"

* Iris punches the bad guy (who kidnapped her) after he's already been super-punched and disabled by The Flash. = Laurel punched Slade's henchman (who kidnapped her) after he'd already been shot by an arrow and disabled by Sara.

* Eddie teaches Barry how to punch a punching bag, wearing boxing gloves.  Flashback scene of Detective West teaching child Barry and child Iris how to box. = Ted is teaching Laurel how to box.  (Do these EPs have a boxing fetish or what?)

* Barry watches Iris smooch with Eddie. = Clark watched Lana smooch with Whitney.

* Iris meets with The Flash on a rooftop and is all fan-girly while trying to interview him for her blog. = Margot Kidder's Lois Lane met with Chris Reeves' Superman on a rooftop and was all fan-girly while trying to interview him for The Daily Planet.

* Iris is reporting on the Streak for her blog and will now be investigating other superpowered people as well. = Chloe reported on the Blur and was investigating other superfreaks as well.

 

AOS - The search for the hidden alien city is an intriguing storyline.  The mystery of the origin of Skye's mother is also intriguing.  More focus on the rest of Team Coulson is good.  Ward is now irredeemiably evil.  Bonus points for the flashback scenes with Agent Carter.  The problem is still Coulson.  As a mild-mannered bureaucrat who showed up briefly in each of the Marvel movies, he was fine.  As the ruthless new director of SHIELD, he's not believable to me.  Whenever he threatens a bad guy and has to act menacing, I find it hard to take him seriously.

Edited November 19, 2014 by tv echo

[Carrie Ann]

I felt the same way watching AoS tonight where Bobbi Morse was kicking ass and taking names. Even Skye (and Chloe Bennet), who for me began as borderline Mary Sue, has grown into her role and I now believe is a competent member of SHIELD. So many awesome women. The many ways TPTB botched Black Canary is impressive.

Skye herself has improved for me, but I find her sudden fighting abilities and field agent status almost as hard to believe as Laurel's. I mean, at least she was training for most of last season, plus the hiatus. But it weakens the others' skills to me if we're supposed to believe that Skye could just pick it up in a year. But whatever, at least she's not the focus of the show anymore, and I'm willing to handwave the fighting stuff because that's still not supposed to be her specialty--the computer stuff is. (Uh, right? I don't pay close attention to that show.)

 

As of today (and, if I had to predict, until partway through 309) Arrow is still my favorite comic book show on TV. The Flash is second, AoS is third I guess, and Constantine is a distant 4th. I don't watch Gotham. After the Arrow midseason finale leaves me in despair, I think it's possible Agent Carter will swoop into my number 1 slot. I have high hopes for that show.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[Danny Franks]

 

AOS - The search for the hidden alien city is an intriguing storyline.  The mystery of the origin of Skye's mother is also intriguing.  More focus on the rest of Team Coulson is good.  Ward is now irredeemiably evil.  Bonus points for the flashback scenes with Agent Carter.  The problem is still Coulson.  As a mild-mannered bureaucrat who showed up briefly in each of the Marvel movies, he was fine.  As the ruthless new director of SHIELD, he's not believable to me.  Whenever he threatens a bad guy and has to act menacing, I find it hard to take him seriously.

 

That's exactly how I feel about Coulson. Well, actually I probably feel a lot more antipathy than you, because apart from him, I actually liked the show. But I just cannot stand watching him 'act' out that one thing he does. You know, the 'slight smirk and smugness', which is about all that's in his wheelhouse. Yes, he stood out in the Marvel movies because he was dull and boring and grey, alongside those colourful characters. But jeez, you don't build a series around that guy!

 

But it's another in a growing list of shows where I really liked the women, but thought the men were all tossers, so couldn't really be bothered. Ward was okay because he was just your average square-jawed hero type, without much to make him irritating, but I found Fitz incredibly annoying. I hate that 'arrogant geek' trope, which is really all he was, to me.

[Shanna]

I am having trouble with all the superhero similarities. I don't like iris being a journalist- too much Lois lane. A cops daughter, just like laurel. Works at a coffee shop like Lana! The ever present "let's not tell the girlfriend/love interest". The heroine falls for the guy in the mask- Lois lane a little but laurel too.

I guess those were all love interest issues but Oliver had batman similarities as well (although I don't compare them so much because the characters and back stories on the shows are so different).

Do none of these people having original ideas? I know comic book cakes and all but sheesh. I guess that is why the side characters like felicity and Caitlin are so much more interesting.

Aos has a completely different vibe at least but they ran me off last year an I'm not interested in coming back. I am hoping for something different in agent carter. Fingers crossed!

Edited November 19, 2014 by Shanna

[Starfish35]

but I found Fitz incredibly annoying. I hate that 'arrogant geek' trope, which is really all he was, to me.

I actually like the "arrogant geek" trope - Rodney McKay (SGA) was one of my favorite characters ever - but I have to admit that Fitz isn't my favorite version of this trope. I've found him more sympathetic this year though. Even last year however, he wasn't as annoying as Flash's Cisco (to me anyway).

Edited November 19, 2014 by Starfish35

[strikera0]

According to Deadline Hollywood, Krysten Ritter, Alexandra Daddario, Teresa Palmer and Jessica De Gouw have been invited to screen test for the Jessica Jones role. Lance Gross and Mike Colter are in the running for Luke Cage.

Edited November 19, 2014 by strikera0

[Danny Franks]

Hmm. I'm not blown away by any of those choices for Jessica Jones.

 

Alexandra Daddario is one of the most stunning women I've ever seen, but I really cannot see her as Jessica Jones. I don't think a whole lot of her acting ability either, nor the acting abilities of Jessica De Gouw (though her getting the role would amuse me, given that any plans the Arrow writers might have for a Birds of Prey storyline would be shot down) or Teresa Palmer.

 

And Krysten Ritter has a creepy, Michael Jackson face, so I don't like looking at her at all.

 

That Lance Gross guy looks like Luke Cage should look, but I know nothing about his acting ability.

[Pyramid]

More Alexandra Daddario on screen can only be a good thing. From a purely scientific perspective, obviously.

[Danny Franks]

More Alexandra Daddario on screen can only be a good thing. From a purely scientific perspective, obviously.

 

Marvel will troll the whole audience, and cast her as Madame Masque. But if she did prove her acting chops, I'd love to see her play Jessica Drew, rather than Jones.

[tv echo]

In The Flash, they showed a future 2024 newspaper with the headline "Flash Missing". 

 

But the paper also showed a "Wayne Tech / Queen Inc Merger Complete" headline.  Does that mean sometime down the road, Oliver gets his company back and Palmer Technologies changes to Queen Inc.?

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/07/flash-cw-harrison-wells-newspaper-theories-spoilers/

[Morrigan2575]

In The Flash, they showed a future 2024 newspaper with the headline "Flash Missing". 

 

But the paper also showed a "Wayne Tech / Queen Inc Merger Complete" headline.  Does that mean sometime down the road, Oliver gets his company back and Palmer Technologies changes to Queen Inc.?

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/07/flash-cw-harrison-wells-newspaper-theories-spoilers/

Or the paper is from an Alternate Future Time Line which does not/hasn't played out in this show because someone went back in time and altered the past/present which brought about a new timeline in which Ray takes over QC and re-brands it as Palmer Industries.

[tv echo]

I agree with this article (warning - includes a little comic book-spoilery stuff)...

 

Let’s Allow Arrow, The Flash and Gotham to Invent Their Own Villains
By Paul on Nov 20, 2014
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-flash/lets-allow-arrow-flash-gotham-invent-villains-245126

[shadow2008]

That Lance Gross guy looks like Luke Cage should look, but I know nothing about his acting ability.

 

He's solid. His character Agent Finley was my favourite on the short-lived Crisis. I would be thrilled if he gets to play Luke Cage.

[wingster55]

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/wonder-woman-director-michelle-maclaren-1201363900/'>Michelle Maclaren set to direct Wonder Woman

 

I approve. 

Edited November 24, 2014 by wingster55

[KirkB]

I have yet to see an actress who really looks like my idea of Wonder Woman (though I am kind of picky) but then again none of the actors so far have truly fit my personal vision of Superman either.

[Morrigan2575]

Looks like Constantine is toast :-(

[NumberCruncher]

Looks like Constantine is toast :-(

Wait--I thought they were merely pulling a short season. NBC just said yesterday that it wasn't cancelled. Did something else come out today to contradict that?

Edited November 25, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[Morrigan2575]

No but the short season is a clear sign. The mid season shows are going to have to tank in order for Constantine to get a second season.

Pity because the last two episodes have been really good.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Danny Franks]

I have yet to see an actress who really looks like my idea of Wonder Woman (though I am kind of picky) but then again none of the actors so far have truly fit my personal vision of Superman either.

 

Lynne Collins as Dejah Thoris in John Carter is about the closest I've seen to what I think Wonder Woman should look like. Gal Gadot looks okay in the promo pictures, but I've only seen her in one of those crappy Fast & Furious movies, and she was skinny as a rake, so she'll need to have put on some muscle mass to convince as Diana.

[SleepDeprived]

Lucy Lawless was the perfect Wonder Woman, for me, especially during her Xena days. I think she might've still been able to pull it off since Lucy is as flawless and gorgeous as ever but, lbr, no Hollywood producer would ever hire a 40-something woman to be Wonder Woman. Ageist tools. If Hippolyta is in the WW movie, though, I can see Lucy in the role should she be offered/given the chance to audition for it.

 

Another favorite fancast of mine for WW was Bridget Regan (from Legend of the Seeker). She's gorgeous, tall, a good actress, able to oscillate between soft/kind and tough/determined, as well as believable when it comes to kicking ass. And she looks great in the WW drawings/fanarts around the interwebs.

 

However, even with my reservations about the physicality that Gal Gadot will really be able to bring to Diana, I am excited to see how she manages the role. I want Gal to succeed in the role because it's long past due that we got a WW movie; and I need this movie to be great because I just know that sexist idiots will pick nits. Hiring Michelle MacLaren (X-Files and Breaking Bad alum! Woo!) to direct makes me hopeful that DC is truly serious about WW in their cinematic 'verse.

[Danny Franks]

Well, none of the recent DC movies have been great, so I'm certainly not holding out any hope for the Wonder Woman one. Michelle MacLaren is probably a big step up from that clueless dolt, Zack Snyder, but if the scripts suck as badly as most DC ones have, then there's no saving the movie.

 

Will they make Diana 'dark and gritty' to appeal to modern audiences? Yuck.

[NumberCruncher]

Will they make Diana 'dark and gritty' to appeal to modern audiences? Yuck.

This is my biggest fear. Seeing the promo photos from SDCC didn't help matters either. She looked dark and angry...just like every other DC movie character. I'm beginning to think that's the only way DC knows how to portray heroic characters on the big screen.

[SleepDeprived]

Bear in mind, though, that those SDCC promo photos are for Batman v. Superman, which came from the dynamic (I say with as much sarcasm as possible) duo that is Goyer and Snyder.

 

As far as the recent DC movies, I actually found Nolan's Batman trilogy very entertaining, particularly The Dark Knight. But my perception of that film might be highly influenced by how amazing I thought Heath Ledger's acting was as The Joker (still prefer Mark Hamill's voice acting as The Joker best, though).

 

And, yeah, I know that the previous attempts of DC at a cinematic 'verse were lackluster and disappointing (guess who one of the main writers of the second attempt was--hint: he's currently Arrow's main showrunner). I also am aware that this current attempt at a connected cinematic universe was heralded by Man of Steel, that poor excuse of a 'gritty for the sake of being gritty--who cares about staying true to character' Superman movie (I did like the cast, though). But I can't help but want to be optimistic for DC after they released their line-up of upcoming movies, primarily, because I am very impressed at their attempts at diversity (POC characters and the biggest female superhero, what's not to like?). I feel that as long as David Goyer and Zack Snyder keep as far away as possible from the WW script, the movie will be fine/have a fighting chance at being great.

 

I don't know how their relationship is with DC nowadays, or with each other, but I wonder if Gail Simone and Greg Rucka might be willing to collaborate on the WW screenplay. That would really make me want to throw all my monies at this movie since, IMO, those two produced some of the best comic storylines for WW.

[Lokiberry]

 

Will they make Diana 'dark and gritty' to appeal to modern audiences? Yuck.

You mean the modern audiences that line up around the block to watch the lighter Marvel movies? The problem with the DC movies is that they're trying to turn everything into Batman and that just defeats the purpose of having so many different characters.

[KirkB]

The Nolan Batman movies (even the less well received third one) were a phenomenal success. I understand DC looking at that and deciding the way to make up for their past failures is to try and do everything like Batman. What none of the people in charge of the DCU seem to recognize is that dark and gritty works for Batman because there would basically be no Batman without that tone, but not every one of their characters has that kind of tragic back story or literally lives in the shadows in the same way. Superman doesn't have to be all bright and cheery, he's had some pretty dark times too, but he is a demigod and should have a much more fantastic, larger than life movie and surrounding characters. The same is true of Wonder Woman. Even Green Arrow, who was modeled after Batman in a lot of ways, tends to be a more upbeat character, Oliver Queen is happier on a day to day basis than Bruce Wayne is in most of his life, at least in the comics. Trying to copy Marvel isn't the best idea, since Marvel's characters lend to quirkier stories than most of DC's big guns. And not all of them have been great successes either. The first Iron Man surprised even the people who made it, 2 made money but wasn't reviewed well and 3 tanked. Both Hulk (my all time favorite character) movies flopped. Neither Thor movie did as well as I'm sure they hoped.The first Captain America didn't do great, but the second was a rousing success. Avengers, of course, blew everyone away. DC seems making the mistake of looking at Avengers and deciding a big team movie is what they need, but they apparently don't have the patience to do all the individual movies so they are cramming everyone into BVS. I think their best bet is stop trying to do what everyone else is doing and come up with their own thing. If they remember what that is.

[Danny Franks]

This is my biggest fear. Seeing the promo photos from SDCC didn't help matters either. She looked dark and angry...just like every other DC movie character. I'm beginning to think that's the only way DC knows how to portray heroic characters on the big screen.

 

She does look angry, which isn't quite the Diana I'm familiar with. Sure, she does get angry, and she does get violent, but she's always got a sort of grace of spirit that shines through. If the writer of the movie recognises and understands that, then she might be okay.

 

I don't know how their relationship is with DC nowadays, or with each other, but I wonder if Gail Simone and Greg Rucka might be willing to collaborate on the WW screenplay. That would really make me want to throw all my monies at this movie since, IMO, those two produced some of the best comic storylines for WW.

 

 

I'd love to see Gail Simone involved in writing for the DC movies. She gets characters almost as well as my own favourite writer, Fabian Nicieza does (seriously, that guy seems to have an instant handle on any character he's given to write). She knows Wonder Woman's world and who the character is, and I'd have more confidence that some numbskull wouldn't say, 'so, you think we need to make Steve Trevor more of a co-protagonist here, guys?' if she were around.

 

You mean the modern audiences that line up around the block to watch the lighter Marvel movies? The problem with the DC movies is that they're trying to turn everything into Batman and that just defeats the purpose of having so many different characters.

 

 

Marvel and DC's movies have been like night and day. Literally. You've got Man of Steel with all the dirty greys and shadows, and then you've got Thor, with technicolour costumes and sets. Even when Marvel get darker, there's still an element of fun and wit underlying it all. I couldn't say that for anything DC has put on the big screen recently. I think they tried that with Green Lantern, but it was all so limp and flaccid that nothing really worked anyway.

 

So I don't know if there's a conscious, 'we need to be different to Marvel' level of thinking, but it seems to be what has happened. And Marvel's movies have succeeded because they're fun. The only DC movies that worked (though I think the third one sucked) were the Nolan Batman ones, and that's because he's a character perfectly suited to dark and grim and dramatic. Though I still think they were all distinctly lacking in the soul of Batman and Gotham City.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Morrigan2575]

The first Iron Man surprised even the people who made it, 2 made money but wasn't reviewed well and 3 tanked.

 

Huh?  Iron Man 3 broke 1 Billion, not sure how that qualifies as tanked.  Sucked, sure, I thought it was a crap movie, worse then IM2 but it made bank at the box office.

[NumberCruncher]

Yeah, I wouldn't say that any Marvel movie has "tanked".  The Hulk movies were poorer performers but the rest have done very well.  I don't think Marvel expected either Iron Man or Thor to shatter box office records when they were released since both characters weren't super-popular in the comic world so I think they were surprised when audiences responded so well to them.  It's a testament that pretty much every character sequel has outdone its predecessor in terms of box office.  Clearly the model is working for Marvel...it still remains to be seen if it works for DC beyond Batman.

[wingster55]

Man of Steel didn't really tank either. It wasn't an overwhelming success but it was profitable. 

[ohjoy]

Lucy Lawless was the perfect Wonder Woman, for me, especially during her Xena days. I think she might've still been able to pull it off since Lucy is as flawless and gorgeous as ever but, lbr, no Hollywood producer would ever hire a 40-something woman to be Wonder Woman. Ageist tools. If Hippolyta is in the WW movie, though, I can see Lucy in the role should she be offered/given the chance to audition for it.

 

Another favorite fancast of mine for WW was Bridget Regan (from Legend of the Seeker). She's gorgeous, tall, a good actress, able to oscillate between soft/kind and tough/determined, as well as believable when it comes to kicking ass. And she looks great in the WW drawings/fanarts around the interwebs.

I've had no interest in seeing DC movies beyond the Nolan Batman trilogy (pretty much the only time when I was actively looking for "gritty and dark"), and yes, what I've seen of Gal Gadot does nothing to pique my interest (I'm still slightly bitter that they picked her over Jaimie Alexander, even with the glaring Marvel conflict), but the two selections above are spot on. I kept hoping against hope that Bridget Regan would get selected for the WW role when they were attempting that tv-reboot (also, for the sake of her career, it's probably just as well she didn't) -- she really did look the part.

[BkWurm1]

Huh?  Iron Man 3 broke 1 Billion, not sure how that qualifies as tanked.  Sucked, sure, I thought it was a crap movie, worse then IM2 but it made bank at the box office.

I know a lot of comic fans were furious about the Mandarin but except for that, what wasn't to like about it? 

Edited November 25, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

I know a lot of comic fans were furious about the Mandarin but except for that, what wasn't to like about it?

For me, I didn't like that it was set at Christmas (yeah minor point but it bugged me), I hated the Mandarin fakeout not, because of comics but because Ben Kingsly was an awesome villain and Guy Pierce ended up being so cheesy. I didn't like the whole part in the middle with Tony/kid bonding, I also didn't like that Pepper got the victory in the end, it felt a bit hollow.

I've never had any desire to watch the movie again, same for TDKR.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Danny Franks]

I know a lot of comic fans were furious about the Mandarin but except for that, what wasn't to like about it? 

 

The Mandarin reveal didn't bother me at all. It was an amusing take on the idea, and one that acknowledged the power of imagery and expectations, in creating a terrifying threat. Guy Pearce wasn't very good, I agree. And I hated the whole final act, with the superpowered villains fighting the Iron Man suits. All sound and fury, signifying nothing. Empty spectacle, which I generally find utterly boring. But then, all the Iron Man films have resorted to the same thing for their climax.

[BkWurm1]

For me, I didn't like that it was set at Christmas (yeah minor point but it bugged me), I hated the Mandarin fakeout not, because of comics but because Ben Kingsly was an awesome villain and Guy Pierce ended up being so cheesy. I didn't like the whole part in the middle with Tony/kid bonding, I also didn't like that Pepper got the victory in the end, it felt a bit hollow.

I've never had any desire to watch the movie again, same for TDKR.

I guess things just hit people differently.  I barely noticed the Christmas thing (maybe because I don't celebrate it I tend to tune it out?) I thought the Mandarin fake out was very funny and a clever way to get around the problematic history and characterization of the Mandarin, I loved watching Tony and the kid.  It was great IMO character stuff for him and I had been looking forward to the part where Pepper saved the day since they kind of telegraphed it at the beginning of the film.

I've rewatched it a few times and been just as entertained.

 

But I understand your feelings about TDKR.  I've watched TDK probably all the way through about a half dozen times and that many more times when I just happened to be flipping through the channels and couldn't stop watching.  But I still have an icky feeling about TDKR.  I actually didn't hate it, it just was a chore to watch.  I think I'm nearly to the point where I could watch it again, but not quite yet.  

[tv echo]

In The Flash, they showed a future 2024 newspaper with the headline "Flash Missing". 

 

But the paper also showed a "Wayne Tech / Queen Inc Merger Complete" headline.  Does that mean sometime down the road, Oliver gets his company back and Palmer Technologies changes to Queen Inc.?

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/07/flash-cw-harrison-wells-newspaper-theories-spoilers/

I noticed that in last night's Flash episode, when Barry lost his powers and the future newspaper changed so that the "Flash Missing" headline disappeared, the secondary headline changed to "Wayne Tech / Queen Inc. Merger Falls Through".  So the merger is affected by the Flash.

Edited November 26, 2014 by tv echo

[Tangerine]

Taken from the Small Talk thread since this is mostly Flash/Arrow related:

 

foreverevolving:

Personally i think KC is by far the worse actress of the two (at least in terms of their roles on Arrow/Flash). DP is at least getting better and seem to slowly getting a good feel of her character. unlike KC i actually feel and like Caitlin, did from the start and she continues to grow on me, which was my opposite reaction to Fakanary.

   

wingster55:

So KC should be an even worse actress?

 

I disagree that DP is worse, but this is a mileage varies situation I suppose. I think Caitlin and Laurel are closer personality wise than Caitlin and Felicity, even though C and F are set-up as the parallels. Caitlin and Laurel are both angry and guarded but the main difference as to why I liked Caitlin is that DP knows how to project warmth underneath the frosty exterior. DP definitely has a stiffness about her, but she also has these really genuinely soft, human moments that makes her a lot more relatable and enjoyable than KC's performance as Laurel.

[wingster55]

I think Danielle's dialogue is stilted, doesn't project much warmth, isn't great with emotions (as in showing them while acting). 

KC is slightly better as is EBR. Candice Patton is a bit (or more) ahead of all of them/equal to Willa Holland. 

[Morrigan2575]

I'm actually having a hard time warming up to Caitlin, I've never seen Danielle Panabaker before so I have no idea on her acting abilities.  I liked her best in 103, the episode that focused on the Caitlin/Ronnie back-story.  She doesn't get the funny lines, like Cisco, she's not dark/edgy/mysterious like Wells.  She's sort of trapped in between, she's the unfun one, so to speak, the one who is always worried about things.  

 

As of right now, she's mostly dull and I don't know if that's because of the way the character is written or acted.  However, 103 gives me a reason to hope for more.

[KirkB]

I think Danielle's dialogue is stilted, doesn't project much warmth, isn't great with emotions (as in showing them while acting).

 

See, maybe I'm wrong, but I kind of thought that was on purpose. I thought that was more supposed to be Caitlin kind of closed down since Ronnie died.

[dtissagirl]

Because I watch TV wrong, Caitlin is totally my favorite FAVORITE character on Flash. By far, even. I just gratuitously completely love her and want her to get everything ever she wants, even if it's to go full blown evil and destroy all the little people around her who aren't as sad and angry as she is.

[apinknightmare]

See, maybe I'm wrong, but I kind of thought that was on purpose. I thought that was more supposed to be Caitlin kind of closed down since Ronnie died.

Yeah, that's what I get from her too.

[statsgirl]

See, maybe I'm wrong, but I kind of thought that was on purpose. I thought that was more supposed to be Caitlin kind of closed down since Ronnie died.

I think that's what they're going for.  They've brought it up a number of times, from her being cold to Barry at the beginning (she explained it was because her fiance died), to her refusing to go down to the machine, where he died, to the plea to Barry last episode saying she can't lose someone else she cares about.  The difference between her and Laurel is that it's only been 10 months for Caitlin, whereas it was five years for Laurel.

 

The other difference is that she's got a dry sense of humor, much like Diggle's. Her line to Cisco about the boomerang he was about to hand her in the episode where Plastique was turning everything into an explosive and blowing it up "You didn't think this one through, did you?" was the best line of the episode, I thought..

 

This is the first role I've seen Danielle Panabaker in and it's a MMV because I think she's a better actress than KC.  Although the fact that I love Caitlin probably factors into that.