Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[way2interested]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

E1 Barry is bad enough - you don't need another Earth's version of him to play a villain!

I knew you wouldn't let me down.

[Starfish35]

Arrow Crossover: Quantico's Russell Tovey Cast as Gay Superhero

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Where there’s a will, there’s… The Ray: Quantico and Looking vet Russell Tovey has been tapped to play gay superhero The Ray in The CW’s four-part Arrow-verse crossover, TVLine has learned. What’s more, Tovey will also voice the role of The Ray in CW Seed’s forthcoming animated series Freedom Fighters: The Ray.

The official character description for The Ray is as follows:

Raymond “Ray” Terrill was a reporter who discovered a group of government scientists working on a secret project to turn light into a weapon of mass destruction. But before he could report on his findings, the project head exposed Ray to a “genetic light bomb.” The bomb failed to kill him and instead gifted Ray with light-based powers. With these abilities, Ray realized he could go beyond reporting on injustice — he could take action to help stop it. Calling himself The Ray, he was recruited by Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters to fight violence and oppression wherever it exists.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Starfish35

[Oreo2234]

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I don't think they've listed everyone, just the comics "names".  Iris isn't there, and neither is Felicity and Diggle.

Yeah they will obviously be a part of it but they don't have room to put everyone in there so they are prioritising the comics "names" as you said.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Oreo2234

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I knew you wouldn't let me down.

I wouldn't be me if I let an opportunity to bash Barry slip by. 

[LolaRuns]

Interesting, so they are not going with the origin from the comics where he spent the beginning of his life in darkness due to some illness. 

[apinknightmare]

34 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I don't think they've listed everyone, just the comics "names".  Iris isn't there, and neither is Felicity and Diggle.  

Iris is right smack in the middle of the thing.

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Iris is right smack in the middle of the thing.

Yeah, but I meant her name isn't one of the characters listed on the sides of the poster, even though she's obviously in it. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Starfish35

[Mrs. de Winter]

2 minutes ago, Oreo2234 said:

Yeah they will obviously be a part of it but don't have room to put everyone in there so they are prioritising the comics "names" as you said.

That's the issue for some of us - two characters who have been a part of the TV show universe from virtually day one - and they can't find a place for them?   That doesn't make me want to watch to be honest.   

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah, but I meant her name isn't one of the characters listed on the sides of the poster.

I'd take Felicity and Diggle's faces showing up even if their names weren't listed instead of ignoring the fact that they exist. 

[Angel12d]

8 minutes ago, Oreo2234 said:

Yeah they will obviously be a part of it but they don't have room to put everyone in there so they are prioritising the comics "names" as you said.

Yeah, which is exactly the problem. Felicity and Diggle are part of the core of Arrow and they don't even get featured on the artwork because they're not from the comics?! It's not right at all. I'm used to them being left out in most promos but this exclusion feels deliberate and kinda mean tbh. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Angel12d

[Starfish35]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'd take Felicity and Diggle's faces showing up even if their names weren't listed instead of ignoring the fact that they exist. 

My post didn't have anything to do with whether they should be on the poster.  I was just pointing out that them not being listed, like Alex and Winn, doesn't mean they're not going to be included. 

And there's even apparently a few comics "names" that got left off - even if J'onn isn't going to be part of it. the exclusion of Kid Flash is particularly mystifying.  And Nate isn't on there either (which it took me awhile to notice - lol).

Edited September 22, 2017 by Starfish35

[Angel12d]

And honestly, they just made OTA fans angry instead of getting everyone excited. They are such morons for this. The simplest thing could've had everyone hyped but nope. They did this instead. I just don't understand them. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Starfish35 said:

My post didn't have anything to do with whether they should be on the poster.   

I never said that it did. 

[Primal Slayer]

 I've been saying since s3 that they should do the Crime Syndicate and now it looks like they kind of are! Though with all the bad guys having their faces completed covered I can't help but feel it will mainly be stunt doubles to avoid the time needed to have everyone play 2 characters.

[insomniadreams88]

I just don't get why they couldn't put Felicity and Diggle on the poster, but could put all the Arrow newbies (so they can't say, "well, maybe they're dead," because they were all on the island together), the entire Legends of Tomorrow team (including Zari, who hasn't even been seen yet since she debuts this season) and Captain Cold, who's going to be in what, a few episodes (I'm guessing - I haven't kept up with how much he's going to be in this season).

And you know what? I'd love to see Alex in the key art too, but I'm not as mad about that as I am about Felicity and Diggle since they only put Supergirl. They have every member of Team Arrow on there except for Felicity and Diggle. 

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

I never said that it did. 

Okay.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

And Nate isn't on there either (which it took me awhile to notice - lol).

Maybe they couldn't fit his new neck on there!

[LolaRuns]

Well it's pretty clear that Flash is gonna be the focus of the crossover again, just like last time. And it makes sense, with it being the show with the highest ratings after all and it brought up the ratings of the other shows as well. So they want to advertise Flash and it being a big comic book extravaganza and that's why there are no civilians other than Iris. 

[Starfish35]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

Maybe they couldn't fit his new neck on there!

Hahaha :)

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

And honestly, they just made OTA fans angry instead of getting everyone excited. They are such morons for this. The simplest thing could've had everyone hyped but nope. They did this instead. I just don't understand them. 

Are they though? I get wanting your faves to be featured but the ratings are going to be big regardless and get plenty of hype out of this.

[Angel12d]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

Are they though? I get wanting your faves to be featured but the ratings are going to be big regardless and get plenty of hype out of this.

Well, considering 99% of the responses on twitter to that artwork are asking about Felicity and Diggle instead of focusing on the fact that there's an actual crossover happening, yes, I think they made a mistake not including them. 

[Chaser]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Are they though? I get wanting your faves to be featured but the ratings are going to be big regardless and get plenty of hype out of this.

Why not get the most hype possible tho?

They easily could have included them.

[LolaRuns]

Twitter does not represent the entire audience. Flash has like what, 2-3 million viewers? There's like 99 comments on that twitter post (compared to 400 likes and 140 retweets). Now all viewers of tv shows are as dedicated as the kind of people who would visit a forum on a tv show. 

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Why not get the most hype possible tho?

They easily could have included them.

Maybe because they wanted to go for a certain look and that look happened to be Mask focused? 

Edited September 22, 2017 by LolaRuns

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Well, considering 99% of the responses on twitter to that artwork are asking about Felicity and Diggle instead of focusing on the fact that there's an actual crossover happening, yes, I think they made a mistake not including them. 

If Twitter influenced their ratings, I'd agree but it doesn't so TheCW will be happy regardless if this performs like past crossovers.

[apinknightmare]

I don't think it'll ultimately matter, but it is stupid to just not put them in there to get everyone hyped up. No point in pissing off the group that is arguably most vocal about promoting your show online unless you have to - or unless you're Chico, I guess.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, LolaRuns said:

Maybe because they wanted to go for a certain look and that look happened to be Mask focused? 

Diggle has a mask. He's Spartan. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

That's not all that matters..twitter creates buzz, EPs/Networks know that..if something can give you buzz it's smart to use it. Simple as that.

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Why not get the most hype possible tho?

They easily could have included them.

 They never can get everyone hyped. Black Siren isn't being included in the crossover at all lol, my hype went down for it. Though I'm still interested and somewhat excited for it still. 

[Oreo2234]

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And there's even apparently a few comics "names" that got left off - even if J'onn isn't going to be part of it. the exclusion of Kid Flash is particularly mystifying.  And Nate isn't on there either (which it took me awhile to notice - lol).

Yeah I just noticed that too. I'm pretty sure Nate and Wally will be part of the fight too though since Wally is Iris brother it is a little odd he was one of the people they chose to leave off. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Oreo2234

[Angel12d]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

If Twitter influenced their ratings, I'd agree but it doesn't so TheCW will be happy regardless if this performs like past crossovers.

I think you're missing my point? Fandom would've been hyped if Felicity and Diggle had been included. Instead they're angry that they weren't. You just said above that your hype went down because BS wasn't included. This isn't about ratings. It's about getting your core fandom excited and they just annoyed them instead. All it would've taken is a couple of drawings to change that. I mean, they had enough room for 3 of Barry. WTF.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Angel12d

[LolaRuns]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Diggle has a mask. He's Spartan. 

Maybe he doesn't fight in this concrete crossover. 

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That's not all that matters..twitter creates buzz, EPs/Networks know that..if something can give you buzz it's smart to use it. Simple as that.

Buzz doesn't equal ratings though. There is lots of shows that have a lot of buzz but very poor ratings and shows that are rating juggernauts (like cop shows) but not really much online buzz because it doesn't attract the kind of people that are the kind to "buzz", but they still find a way to attract viewers. 

The fact that they keep centering the plot of the crossovers around Barry to me shows that they want to optimize their ratings in that way. 

And maybe they think that making advertising that is more focused on the normal, non-fighting people will not work with the comic book action romp vibe they are going for. 

Maybe they will have a second set of advertising material for that. (I think it would be cool if they did like wedding invitations or something like that)

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

That's not all that matters..twitter creates buzz, EPs/Networks know that..if something can give you buzz it's smart to use it. Simple as that.

I haven' been on twitter yet but I'm guessing every major entertainment site will be talking about it, that's hype. And they would take 3-4 million viewers over 120k [random number] tweets. 

In a better world, they'd be featured on it but them pissing off OTA fans isn't going to diminish that buzz or heavily influence it for that many people. 

[Sunshine]

5 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Diggle has a mask. He's Spartan. 

Nope. Technically he has identity concealment. Have you ever heard anyone associated with the show refer to it as a mask?  (Semantics I know but MG has made that distinction.)

[Midnight Lullaby]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

I haven' been on twitter yet but I'm guessing every major entertainment site will be talking about it, that's hype. And they would take 3-4 million viewers over 120k [random number] tweets. 

In a better world, they'd be featured on it but them pissing off OTA fans isn't going to diminish that buzz or heavily influence it for that many people. 

Every shows' account tries to get buzz on twitter..to get people to talk, to get the show/characters to trend..it's just how it is. It's also a fact that Felicity and Diggle fans have been vocals throughout the years and would have created buzz for the show. If you can get more buzz easily and you don't use that possibility for me it's not smart.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, LolaRuns said:

And maybe they think that making advertising that is more focused on the normal, non-fighting people will not work with the comic book action romp vibe they are going for. 

Putting them on a poster that is otherwise 98% masks isn't focusing on them.

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, LolaRuns said:

Maybe he doesn't fight in this concrete crossover. 

Buzz doesn't equal ratings though. There is lots of shows that have a lot of buzz but very poor ratings and shows that are rating juggernauts (like cop shows) but not really much online buzz because it doesn't attract the kind of people that are the kind to "buzz", but they still find a way to attract viewers. 

The fact that they keep centering the plot of the crossovers around Barry to me shows that they want to optimize their ratings in that way. 

And maybe they think that making advertising that is more focused on the normal, non-fighting people will not work with the comic book action romp vibe they are going for. 

Maybe they will have a second set of advertising material for that. (I think it would be cool if they did like wedding invitations or something like that)

Yeah but I'd go for ratings AND buzz. That seems the smart move to me, like I said. ??‍♀️

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Every shows' account tries to get buzz on twitter..to get people to talk, to get the show/characters to trend..it's just how it is. It's also a fact that Felicity and Diggle fans have been vocals throughout the years and would have created buzz for the show. If you can get more buzz easily and you don't use that possibility for me it's not smart.

To be fair, they are talking - about how awful CW marketing is, haha. And they made their own poster with Diggle and Felicity added, which is maybe what Chico expected them to do so they get to have it both ways for minimal work!

Edited September 22, 2017 by apinknightmare

[Featherhat]

20 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

 

And there's even apparently a few comics "names" that got left off - even if J'onn isn't going to be part of it. the exclusion of Kid Flash is particularly mystifying.  And Nate isn't on there either (which it took me awhile to notice - lol).

I was actually wondering about Nate since he was so heavily featured on LOT last season and Zari who hasn't even debuted yet (and won't until LOT 3.03) is, as is Amaya who came at the same time as Nate. Maybe they just needed more women masks? Shrug. It's annoying for me that Felicity and Dig aren't there, especially considering the "everyone might be dead" S6 promoting but I guess I expected it.

[ruby24]

Wait, so the bad guys are going to be evil versions of the heroes? 

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, ruby24 said:

Wait, so the bad guys are going to be evil versions of the heroes? 

Apparently.

[ruby24]

I like that idea! Sorry, I really don't know anything about the Earth X story, so this is all new to me.

I think it's awesome though. This is probably what Stephen Amell meant in indicating the crossover is going to be three times the work with everyone playing their own evil Nazi versions.

[Chaser]

Bahahaha remember how bad things happened when Olicity breaks up? The worlds try to destroy themselves when WestAllen gets married.

[calliope1975]

51 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I wouldn't be me if I let an opportunity to bash Barry slip by. 

And I appreciate it each and every single time.

[leopardprint]

I feel that if Diggle is going to officiate they could have at least had the decency to stick the back of his head on that poster. 

[LolaRuns]

19 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Every shows' account tries to get buzz on twitter..to get people to talk, to get the show/characters to trend..it's just how it is. It's also a fact that Felicity and Diggle fans have been vocals throughout the years and would have created buzz for the show. If you can get more buzz easily and you don't use that possibility for me it's not smart.

If you have 5 different strategies that might create buzz doesn't mean that you should do all 5 if you think they might undercut each other. If all they wanted was to get people to talk they could just have nudity or same sex kisses in every episode. 

Maybe the comic book artist just picked the people he thought looked the most interesting visually without knowing all their backgrounds. Or maybe he was told to put the focus on Barry and Iris and liked the contrast of having them be the only people who look like civilians. 

I don't care much for Nate, but I would be very surprised if he wasn't at the wedding together with Vixen. 

[Primal Slayer]

9 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I like that idea! Sorry, I really don't know anything about the Earth X story, so this is all new to me.

I think it's awesome though. This is probably what Stephen Amell meant in indicating the crossover is going to be three times the work with everyone playing their own evil Nazi versions.

 Should've done The Crime Syndicate since they are E3 versions of everyone they arent exact doppelgangers in the way E2 is compared to E1. But gotta save those paychecks.

[Midnight Lullaby]

33 minutes ago, LolaRuns said:

If you have 5 different strategies that might create buzz doesn't mean that you should do all 5 if you think they might undercut each other. If all they wanted was to get people to talk they could just have nudity or same sex kisses in every episode. 

Maybe the comic book artist just picked the people he thought looked the most interesting visually without knowing all their backgrounds. Or maybe he was told to put the focus on Barry and Iris and liked the contrast of having them be the only people who look like civilians. 

I don't care much for Nate, but I would be very surprised if he wasn't at the wedding together with Vixen. 

As I said already IN MY OPINION if you want to get people to talk, which is what they try to do every time a new episode airs, it's smart to use characters you know will get people to talk. If they didn't want people to engage they wouldn't try to make them do exactly that on twitter, telling them what hashtag to use and commenting if something trends.

The artist doesn't decide anything..

There doesn't need to be a justification to like a artwork by the way..

Edited September 22, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

if you can get people to talk, which is what they try to do every time a new episode airs, it's smart to use characters you know will get people to talk

I wonder if they'll compensate at least for Felicity by having an overplayed promo clip of her from the crossover like they did last year (sorry, Felicity, but I swear if I hear "best team-up ever" one more time...).

[DrSpaceman10]

Diggle and Felicity left off the promo poster AND Diggle's officiating the Barry/Iris wedding? Nope. 

[LolaRuns]

29 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

As I said already IN MY OPINION if you want to get people to talk, which is what they try to do every time a new episode airs, it's smart to use characters you know will get people to talk. If they didn't want people to engage they wouldn't try to make them do exactly that on twitter, telling them what hashtag to use and commenting if something trends.

The artist doesn't decide anything..

There doesn't need to be a justification to like a artwork by the way..

Of course nobody has to like it. But to me it seems many people don't go and say "I don't like it" (personal opinion) or "I don't like it because my fave wasn't included and I want my fave to be in everything" (personal preference) but "It is wrong or stupid for them to do it like this". Which is acting like it is a neutral fact rather than a person opinion or preference. 

Whether we like it or not, it's been pretty clear by their behavior that apparently they don't see it like that. Whatever their reasons might be, they seem to think that their strategy works better or fits their vision more or whatever. 

I also don't like a lot of the promotion this season so far, and I've criticized for example the promos. But since they consistently behave this way that means that they must have different priorities. This poster believably seems to be something they are personally excited about, so it's not some suit from CW marketing telling them to do it like this. Nor does it seem to be that they don't like Felicity or Olicity since it's pretty clear that they will be a major presence in the season. 

I suspect that nothing in regards to the Crossover will really be centered around having the Arrow fanbase in mind first because Flash is the show with the highest ratings and hence the Westallen wedding is the big focus. It's very likely that they just don't think of Arrow and its fanbase first when creating any of this. That why it likely wouldn't matter to them if it really makes sense for Diggle or not, it only matters whether it works for Westallen's needs. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by LolaRuns