Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Guest]

LOL. Of course the director will disagree. They're not gonna come out before the release and say "Why, yes, WW is a piece of trash." Haha.

It might be okay though. As I've said before, I've not disliked the DC movies but they do have a lot of problems, some of which could be easily solved.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Guest

[Sakura12]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Looks like Suicide Squad is headed toward a 67% second weekend drop, not quite as steep as BvS's 69% drop, but still not great.

http://deadline.com/2016/08/weekend-box-office-suicide-squad-sausage-party-petes-dragon-1201802677/

That's still weak since they didn't have much competition, besides Sausage Party an adult cartoon movie that apparently has a lot of rape "humor" in it. DC movies also seem to have a lot of editing issues that end up changing the movie and making it look disjointed. BvS looked too dark and mopey for me but I did watch some of the action scenes on Youtube and was not that impressed. I did enjoy Suicide Squad for what it was but was still a poorly executed movie. I am worried about Wonder Woman if it goes through any re-shoots or editing. 

[Starfish35]

For comparison purposes, here's a listing of second weekend drops from Box Office Mojo.  Suicide Squad isn't on there because the second weekend numbers aren't final yet, but it's still interesting, at least if you're someone like me who likes numbers. Lol. :)

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/weekends/drops.htm?page=1&order=ASC&p=.htm

Here's another listing that's interesting.  Opening weekends sorted by percentage of total US Box office.  BvS's opening weekend total ended up as 50.3% of its US box office total (on the third page).

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/weekends/?pagenum=1&sort=percent&order=DESC&p=.htm

Edited August 14, 2016 by Starfish35

[kismet]

Super Excited for a musical crossover!!! Bummed that Arrow cannot be part of it. I'm not really concerned about the execution. The majority of all the casts can actually sing. Also GB's team was behind Eli Stone and those musical numbers all worked.

I recognize people's tonal issues with musical & Arrow. But I think with the proper storyline it could have worked. If a Villain had injected OQ with a substance or something that made him act OOC, then I could see him singing. I agree OQ just belting out into song would not be a usual occurrence. Even if OQ only reacted to everyone around him singing and he never sang a note. I believe people have narrow minded vision of what a musical episode would look like. In the end, I believe it will be a mistake that Arrow was excluded. My guess is its going to be a regret of the Arrow team to not have been involved.

[TrueMyth]

I wonder if part of the Arrow cast being so song-happy at Comic Con had to do with a back-door audition for the musical episode they heard was in the offing.  I know Stephen has often said he wouldn't do a musical Arrow, but he said the same with the goatee and the sleeveless costume.

I'm assuming they'll have Barrowman cross for the musical, and I'm interested in seeing the rational for Malcolm Merlyn bursting into song.  If they can explain that, they could have explained Oliver, in my opinion.

[apinknightmare]

I think Stephen has always been adamant about not doing a musical episode because he simply just doesn't want to do one. I don't think they were singing a lot at Comic Con to show producers they could do it - there's plenty of evidence online that most of them are good/passable at singing - if Berlanti and Co. wanted to include Arrow in the musical episodes, then they would have. And I think that after coming off of a weak season that included magic and nuke blasts that were highly criticized, that announcing a musical ep probably wouldn't have been a good idea. 

[tv echo]

It's official - Suicide Squad dropped 67% in its second weekend, although it was #1 at the weekend box office again.

I thought this was a good article (fyi, the writer is not the guy who does the Arrow reviews)...

Dear 'Suicide Squad' Fans: You Deserved A Better Movie
Scott Mendelson AUG 15, 2016 @ 11:00 AM 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/08/15/dear-suicide-squad-fans-you-deserved-a-better-movie/#5071f2a01266

[tv echo]

New DC All Access video - this time, about LoT (warning: spoilery)...

Legends of Tomorrow Expand Roster w/ Justice Society & Citizen Steel
Published on Aug 15, 2016, by DC Entertainment

[tv echo]

Yet another collection of video clips of Arrowverse cast members singing...

Basically All Of CW’S Superhero Universe Characters Can Sing & We Have Proof
Posted on August 16, 2016 by Brittany Goldfield Rodrigues
http://www.andpop.com/2016/08/16/cw-superhero-universe-characters-can-sing-proof/

Video clips included in this article:

Melissa Benoist, "Chasing Pavements" in Glee (Sep. 2012)
Jeremy Jordan, "It's All Coming Back to Me Now" at Broadway Loves Celine Dion (NYC show, Jan. 2015)
Laura Benanti, "The Waitress Song"" at Broadway Loves Joe's Pub (Nov. 2008)
Chyler Leigh, "Breathe" on Grey's Anatomy (Mar. 2011)
Blake Jenner (Benoist's husband), "Not Over You" at One Night Only (Modesto, CA show, Feb. 2014)
Grant Gustin, "Smooth Criminal" on Glee (Feb. 2012)
Jesse L. Martin, "I'll Cover You" from Rent: The Movie (2005)
Carlos Valdez, "Open Your Eyes" for Tha Los music video (Jan. 2016)
Kay Panabaker (Danielle's sister), "Someone to Watch Over Me" on Fame (2009)
Stephen Amell, "I Want to Be Where My Parents Are" at Nerd HQ 2015 (Jul. 2015)
John Barrowman, "The Doctor and I," his version of "The Wizard and I" from Wicked (Feb. 2010)
Colton Haynes and Emily Bett Rickards, "Summer Nights" from Grease (Super Heroes Con in Paris, Jun. 2015)
Colton Haynes, "19 You + Me" with Dan + Shay (Nov. 2013)
Arthur Darvill, "Gold" at the 2014 Olivier Awards (Apr. 2014)
Victor Garber, "Freedom" on Eli Stone (Feb. 2008)
Wentworth Miller, "Blues in the Night"  with the Princeton Tigertones (2007?)

Edited August 16, 2016 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

Why 2016 Is The Year We Need To Stop Pretending Women Aren't Geeks

http://www.mtv.com/news/2683640/geek-media-numbers-breakdown/

Quote

According to data provided to USA Today by Nielsen in early November, the average audience who tunes in to watch “Supergirl” every week is almost completely equal in terms of gender parity. “Marvel’s Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D.” is a close second, and even the show with the highest number of male viewers -- “The Flash” -- still has a relatively large number of female viewers. Recent data from ABC also suggests that the gender demographics for their mini-series "Marvel's Agent Carter" were almost completely even, too, similar to those of "Supergirl." (So on the flip side of what we're discussing, in case you were wondering whether a male viewer would ever respond to a complex and interesting female lead, take heart because they clearly do too.)

 

 

[BkWurm1]

Not surprising that the Flash draws a smaller ratio of female to male viewers than the other shows.

[Morrigan2575]

I thought a report that came out earlier  (May?l shows Arrow closer to 55/45 male/female split. While Flash was very heavily male skewing?

[dtissagirl]

They look like the same numbers Spotted Ratings posted during Upfronts. Here's their numbers for the CW [there are links to the other networks in this page]:
http://www.spottedratings.com/2016/05/2016-upfront-power-rankings-cw.html

They also have the SKEW number listed, which is the percentage of viewers in the 18-49 demo. The CW is totally getting older.

Edited August 16, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Morrigan2575]

Huh, i thought Arrow was closer to SPN than it was to Flash. Most be losing it.

[dtissagirl]

Arrow S3 was more male than Flash S1:
http://www.spottedratings.com/2014/11/cw-weekly-true-power-rankings-for-2014.html

Arrow S4 - Flash S2 reversed it.

Edited August 16, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Velocity23]

New LOT funkos coming up

[Sakura12]

They really made a Hawkman Pop from LoT, he was in like 4 episodes total. He wasn't popular or missed. Hawkgirl wasn't popular either but at least she was on the show the whole season. 

Still love that Sara got another Pop, especially after the Funko Twitter handler tweeted #TeamSara. 

Edited August 17, 2016 by Sakura12

[tv echo]

Marvel's 'Runaways' Scores Pilot Order at Hulu
AUGUST 17, 2016 11:25am PT by Lesley Goldberg
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/marvels-runaways-scores-pilot-order-920310

‘Marvel’s Runaways’ Coming to Hulu from ‘Gossip Girl’ Creators
Elizabeth Wagmeister  AUGUST 17, 2016 | 11:34AM PT
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/marvel-runaways-tv-show-hulu-1201839469/

[tv echo]

The Flash EPs Reveal the Most Shocking Surprise in "Flashpoint"
by JEAN BENTLEY | Wed, Aug 17, 2016 8:00 PM
http://www.eonline.com/news/788365/the-flash-eps-reveal-the-most-shocking-surprise-in-flashpoint

Quote

How will the timeline affect the other shows?

Aaron: It'll affect Diggle the most.

Todd: Supergirl's on another Earth, so it won't affect that. And Legends, they're time traveling anyway. In the crossovers everything is going to come together.

Edited August 18, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Can The CW help fix the DC Cinematic Universe?
BY LARRY CARROLL AT 06:08 PM ON AUG 17, 2016
http://zap2it.com/2016/08/suicide-squad-the-flash-dc-movies-lessons-dc-shows/

Quote

You don’t have to be the world’s greatest detective (which would be Batman) to realize that the DC movie universe is hurting. The much-hyped “Suicide Squad” opened to buzz as bad as “Batman v Superman,” which itself was supposed to have turned around the bad mojo of “Man of Steel.”
*  *  *
So, how can one corner of the DC universe be getting things so right, while another corner isn’t? Below are five lessons the DC films should be learning from their sister series.
*  *  *
Up the romance
Google the term “Olicity,” and look at all the impassioned arguments over whether Oliver Queen and Felicity Smoak should be together, how Laurel Lance fits in, etc. Now, think back to the last time you heard someone passionately discuss the romance between Henry Cavill’s Superman and Amy Adams’ Lois Lane.

How did the DC movie universe manage to drain the greatest romance in the history of comics of any dramatic heft whatsoever? In some ways, it seems more unbelievable than the notion that a man can fly.

Article's bullet points:
Drop the baggage
Up the romance
Kick out the auteurs
Be truer to the source
Lighten up

Edited August 18, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

THE FLASH EP EXPLAINS WHY THERE'S ANOTHER SPEEDSTER VILLAIN
BY TERRI SCHWARTZ   17 AUG 2016
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/08/17/the-flash-ep-explains-why-theres-another-speedster-villain

Quote

IGN: When we found out there would be the four series crossover and also Flashpoint, I know a lot of people thought, "Oh, maybe Flashpoint will continue until the four-part crossover, and that'll have something to do with resolving it." Can you talk about why you decided to do it for relatively short period of time? What, three or four episodes?
Helbing: Much like in the Earth-2 episodes, they were fun, a lot of fun, I loved both of those episodes, but we couldn't do a whole half-season in Earth-2. In the same regard, I don't think it would be the best version of the show if we did half the season -- almost the whole season -- in Flashpoint. That said, the things that Barry changed in the timeline really do ripple throughout the whole season. And that's really the depth I can go into. It'll all make sense after you watch the episode.

IGN: What can you tease about the themes or some of the things that Barry deals with that you guys were really excited to get into the kick off this season?
Helbing: The first two seasons are about family. Family that I had, family that I lost. Now this is really the family that I've created. And so, this whole idea that Barry can change the people in his lives that are important to him by going back in time. What Barry is constantly learning is the consequences of his actions. Creatively, it's such a fertile ground to explore what somebody's life would be like if they actually had something that they lost, and what the reality of that is. I think often times as people you think one version would be better -- it's always grass is greener -- but it's always, in Barry's world, the consequences. He's going remember. He's going to know what he's lost at the same time.
*  *  *
IGN: We also learned that Jay Garrick is The Flash on Earth-3 at the end of Season 2. What can you tease of how that will intersect with this season, especially with the Flashpoint complications?
Helbing: Jay Garrick and him are free. Those other Earths aren't affected, much like Supergirl is not affected because she's on whatever Earth she's on. Jay Garrick on Earth-3 still exists as Jay Garrick -- nothing has changed. And I think that now Barry knows where he is, and that there is somebody a lot older than him, a lot more experienced, even though he looks like his father, he's going to use him for advice every-so-often.

IGN: You also have a musical episode coming up, which fans have been asking for for years now. What are you most excited about getting to take advantage of the musical talents in this way?
Helbing: I mean, if we can get a dance sequence in there on top of it, I would love to do that. Listening to Joe as the lounge singer, singing, and to see Grant and he was karaoke-ing first season, and even watching Danielle, not being able to sing ... I'm just really excited, to be honest, to see how it all comes together. I know Greg [Berlanti] is very close to this story. He's been thinking about it -- I don't know how long, probably not just yesterday, you know what I'm saying? He's been percolating. Seeing Jesse sing, seeing Grant sing, it's just one of those -- like whoa, we can totally pull this off. I don't know why we wouldn't do this. Let's go for it. This year in general we're really swinging for the fences.

Edited August 18, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

No surprise - this writer wants to undo a lot of deaths...

10 "ARROW"-VERSE EVENTS WE WANT TO SEE UNDONE BY "FLASHPOINT"
Meagan Damore   August 17, 2016
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/10-arrow-verse-events-wed-like-to-see-undone-by-flashpoint

Article's bullet points:
Black Canary's Death 
Roy's "Death"
The Dissolution of the League of Assassins
Felicity's Paralysis
The End of Task Force X
The Death of Rip Hunter's Wife and Child
The Death of Earth-1's Harrison Wells
Your Average, Ordinary Wally West
Linda, Patty and Jesse's Supporting Roles
Supergirl's Parallel Universe

Edited August 18, 2016 by tv echo

[calliope1975]

Quote

 

How will the timeline affect the other shows?

Aaron: It'll affect Diggle the most.

 

Digg's going to get at least one punch in to Barry for changing up his life, right? I don't need a full beat down, and perhaps violence shouldn't be the answer, but I'm gonna need a little bit of violence for Barry's latest debacle. Because, for some crazy reason, I suspect the change isn't going to be that Diggle's now super rich and will have everlasting happiness. 

[TwistedandBored]

2 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

Digg's going to get at least one punch in to Barry for changing up his life, right? I don't need a full beat down, and perhaps violence shouldn't be the answer, but I'm gonna need a little bit of violence for Barry's latest debacle. Because, for some crazy reason, I suspect the change isn't going to be that Diggle's now super rich and will have everlasting happiness. 

No, Diggle is going to sympathize with how hard this has been on Barry and give Barry a pep-talk. Poor Barry is already going through so much. 

[Velocity23]

Quote

Executive producers Aaron and Todd Helbing told E! News that episode 304 is an origin story of sorts for Mirror Master, played by Aquarius' Grey Damon—and it'll also mark the return of Wentworth Miller as Captain Cold.

So the first announcment for a regular of DCTV returning.

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Velocity23

[Trini]

Whatever is happening with Diggle in Flashpoint, I think it's only going to be on The Flash. Unless it's something that the Arrow producers actually want to change on their show. (I have a feeling it's just going to be a line of dialogue about whatever change they make.)

[Velocity23]

I mean Berlanti and AK are still part of the show. IF they want the changes to the show to stick. They are gonna stick.

They also said Felicity will be impacted by FP also.  The timing of that Flash crossover is suspicious also.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Velocity23

[Delphi]

Watched the super extended ultimate edition of Batman v Superman.   And honestly,  it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I thought it would be.   It wasn't great but I didn't think it was terribad and Batfleck and Diana were amazing I thought. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

So the first announcment for a regular of DCTV returning.

 

How weird that's the girl doing the 90s Macy's day school thingy with KC (think she has her own dates).

[looptab]

I like her a lot. 

I wonder why the Flash's EPs have decided to just come out and say that FP will be two episodes top.

[Carrie Ann]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

And so, this whole idea that Barry can change the people in his lives that are important to him by going back in time. What Barry is constantly learning is the consequences of his actions.

[footage not found]

[apinknightmare]

I think it might be a case of trying to lower expectations a bit. I've seen a lot of comics fans expecting a complete overhaul of the Arrowverse, so they're probably trying to get out ahead of it so those people know it isn't nearly as big as they might be expecting. 

[Morrigan2575]

^^^ Pretty much agree it's damage control or managing expectations.  I think comic fanboys and media sites have gone over board with their expectations/speculations. We (here) have rightly suspected that it would be a very limited storyline (i think many/most of us though it would only last 1 episode). However, that's because we looked at it from a TV storyline perspective.  

[looptab]

Makes sense. At first I thought they would be encouraging the speculation until the premiere, but this might be wiser, given the  expectations.

[statsgirl]

You mean Laurel won't come back to life?  But she's Oliver's soulmate!

I think that in season 5, the writers might want to have a bit of fun spicing up the show by tweaking things via Flashpoint.   But what they want and what I want are often two different things.

[Velocity23]

The tears are so precious!

[Morrigan2575]

My only issue is that they're going with MJ again...I'd rather they do Gwen Stacy (except for her ultimate fate).

[manbearpig]

The latest movies did have Gwen Stacy though so I can see why they want to go back to Mary Jane. Spiderman just does not appeal to me, particularly since we're already on our third version in like fifteen years.

[Password]

Why do they love Spiderman so much? You'd think there aren't any other superheroes. 

[tv echo]

19 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

So the first announcment for a regular of DCTV returning.

 

Another "Rickards" in the Arrowverse (no relation to EBR).

Edited August 19, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

This topic is probably debatable...

Is DC At The Forefront For Female Superheroes?
by Rebecca Mills    August 17, 2016
https://hiddenremote.com/2016/08/18/dc-forefront-female-superheroes/

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, manbearpig said:

The latest movies did have Gwen Stacy though so I can see why they want to go back to Mary Jane. Spiderman just does not appeal to me, particularly since we're already on our third version in like fifteen years.

Yeah and for me that was a brewth of fresh air. I'd rather they had stuck with Gwen since she's so "new". I just feel bored by MJ.

[FurryFury]

Well, considering the headstart Marvel has on DC, it's a shame their first female-led movie is only planned for release 2 years after DC's. I still can't wrap my heads around Black Widow never getting her own movie. I mean, they have an actress at the height of her carreer, lots of different types of movies on their plates, why not add a spy thriller? It doesn't even have to be high budget. But they've preferred to take a chance on stuff such as GotG and Ant-Man rather than something much more logical.

[tv echo]

2016 Superhero Movies Ranked (So Far)
Robert Yaniz Jr   August 19, 2016
http://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/2016-superhero-movies-ranked-far.html/?a=viewall

Quote

Truth be told, it has generally not been a great year for superhero films. While the fact that each movie represents a distinctive vision is admirable, few of those to hit in 2016 have been fully embraced by the world at large. Nevertheless, each has its own merit. So, before Marvel’s Doctor Strange rounds out the year, let’s take a closer look at how the recent crop of superhero films stack up. For the record, we’re taking box office performance, critics’ reviews, and the general response from fans into account.

6. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows
5. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
4. Suicide Squad
3. X-Men: Apocalypse
2. Deadpool
1. Captain America: Civil War

Edited August 19, 2016 by tv echo

[benteen]

8 minutes ago, FurryFury said:

Well, considering the headstart Marvel has on DC, it's a shame their first female-led movie is only planned for release 2 years after DC's. I still can't wrap my heads around Black Widow never getting her own movie. I mean, they have an actress at the height of her carreer, lots of different types of movies on their plates, why not add a spy thriller? It doesn't even have to be high budget. But they've preferred to take a chance on stuff such as GotG and Ant-Man rather than something much more logical.

Well, history has proven they were right to do those two films first, especially Guardians of the Galaxy.

I think Marvel has done a much, much better job than they have been given credit for with their female characters on their television shows.  The so-called media likes to ignore this when they have an agenda-driven article to write.  Marvel has had two shows led by women, Jessica Jones and Agent Carter.  Agents of Shield is largely driven by its female characters.  I think the female characters on Daredevil have been great. 

The lack of female SUPERHEROES I think is a fair criticism.

Edited August 19, 2016 by benteen

[tv echo]

I'm curious - aren't the female heroes on Agents of SHIELD considered "superheroes" (Bobbi, Melinda, Daisy)?

Edited August 19, 2016 by tv echo

[FurryFury]

Quote

Well, history has proven they were right to do those two films first, especially Guardians of the Galaxy.

Well, my personal feelings on GotG aside (I really don't like it), I'm not sure a female-led movie released earlier would be such a flop if were well-done. I'm quite sure Black Widow movie would have done better than Ant-Man financially, at least.

[Sakura12]

They have a script for Black Widow, by the writer who is now writing Captain Marvel and co-wrote Guardians of the Galaxy. They choose to focus on the male superheroes. I actually met Nicole Perlman at my cousins wedding, she is a Marvel fan so I would've liked to have seen her Black Widow script. 

DC needs Wonder Woman to do well or we will have the complaint that women heroes don't sell as well. Even with BvS and Suicide Squad not doing that well. You know we will get that complaint. 

Edited August 19, 2016 by Sakura12

[benteen]

2 minutes ago, FurryFury said:

Well, my personal feelings on GotG aside (I really don't like it), I'm not sure a female-led movie released earlier would be such a flop if were well-done. I'm quite sure Black Widow movie would have done better than Ant-Man financially, at least.

I think a Black Widow movie would do really well.  I think Marvel is making a mistake holding off the Captain Marvel movie until 2019.  It's there own oddness that has led DC to release a female-led movie before them.  But that oddness has definitely worked big time for Marvel.

I think Wonder Woman will do big business too.  I'm looking forward to it and only hope Warner Brothers doesn't F up this script again.

I liked Ant-Man a lot though I can understand the arguments wondering if the move was necessary or not.  I'm really looking forward to Ant-Man and The Wasp sequel.

[FurryFury]

I liked Ant-Man as well, but there wasn't really anything original or new about it. Female-led superhero movie is something much more important and relevant.