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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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lemotomato

lemotomato

I hate to say it, but considering how Arrow and SPN took a hit in ratings because of pre-emptions, how high LoT was trending tonight, and the fact that season finales tend to get a ratings bump, I'm guessing it might tie or beat Arrow for second place show on the network this week.

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Lokiberry

Lokiberry

5 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Love that LOT  pointed that in every timeline they ran Laurel was still dead.

Rip pointed out how there was no possible way to save Laurel on LoT, and on Flash they made it clear that the dopplegangers are not interchangeable with their E1 counterparts. It's like they're shouting, "She's dead, dead, dead! Gone, gone, gone! Bye bye birdie!" on every show in the flarrowverse. (and yes, I do think those dead birds were about Laurel)

You know what's going to be hysterical? When it's discovered the man in the iron mask is the real Jay Garrick, and he's the doppleganger for Henry Allen, and Barry bonds with him and makes him his honorary father figure #357. Meanwhile, BS is trapped in a bathroomless cell in the pipeline.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 3:22 PM, lemotomato said:

If it's from the interview I saw, SA said crossovers were"highly likely" in the context of "Well, there are 4 superhero shows on the same network. TPTB are probably going to take advantage of that." I don't think it means anything yet, though. 

I personally vote for no big crossovers at all (I'm really tired of them, and Supergirl is even less compatible with Arrow than Flash), but with 5x08 being Arrow's 100th episode, it's sort of inevitable.

17 hours ago, ruby24 said:

They did this because they want that epic, 4-part crossover to happen.

I wonder how that's going to work, by the way. Will some characters make appearances on some shows, but not others?

I think the CW is counting on Supergirl to bring in fresh eyeballs to the Flarrowverse so I think it's very likely that she will end up going to E1 and I think it's really likely that before the Supergirl episode ends, that audience will be introduced to the other show's characters.  Absolutely Barry, he's already the bridge but given that the Waverider is a time ship and a space ship and can go to places outside of time and space, there's a good chance they also can travel to other universes. 

LoT is also the show they would most like to see get more viewers so I expect them to be heavily involved (and I do get happy thoughts imagining that team running around National City)  I wonder if the show runners even have a clue what excuse to use to bring Supergirl over to E1 but I bet they know what they want to accomplish. 

I kind of worry that Arrow will be left out of it when the crossover starts in National City, but I suppose they could just have Oliver hanging with Barry for "reasons".  Or no one on Arrow shows up 'til a later show. 

If the CW has anything to say about it, each show will get a chance to show off it's essence before moving on to the next.  I just hope they don't do anything dumb characterwise like they did this year.  Leave those plot developments for the regular show and just let the crossovers be FUN!!

 

 

8 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

So you still think they are making Oliver and Felicity get married in the 100th episode, even if they aren't really doing anything to bring them back together right now? I'm curious because I'm starting to have doubts.

7 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

I'm entirely confident O/F will get back together, at the latest in early S5. I am no longer AT ALL confident they'll get married in the 100th episode. 

I'm pretty confident that they WON'T get married in the 100th episode unless somehow the 100th episode is not a part of the crossover. Chances are a lot of set up will happen on Supergirl and then jumps to the Flash and then everything gets put on hold and the crossover won't end until Thursday with the LoT when they probably return Kara to her universe.  No time for weddings.   

 

4 hours ago, nksarmi said:

I don't want to bet on it - but it is what I said would be the easiest way to do a four show cross over. They can have Kara be an Earth 1 Supergirl or Powergirl who arrived before Clark and is still too young herself to come out and cape up. I know that wouldn't be Supergirl's Kara but they can always have Barry and Oliver visit her later for a mini cross over.

I'm strongly against Superman or Supergirl being in the Flarrowverse Universe.  Let it stay in the future since Rip makes reference to Men of Steal.  And they are not going to not use the existing Kara.  It would be pointless.  

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

That seemed to be in the original timeline. Had Rip dropped Sara off on day of the big event, probably would've been a lot different.

Since Rip tried every conceivable way to save his family, I'm pretty sure he crunched the numbers and all the scenario's came back with Lance, Sara and Laurel dead.  Sure, Sara could drop by and save Laurel in THAT moment, but then DD would kill them in the next.    

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Genki

Genki

(edited)
9 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I think JWS is Jay Garrick too. Like 99% sure at this point.

I hope not...

1. it negates the message they just put out that the Earth2 counterparts are not interchangeable with our Earth1 heroes. Do not provide hope for Laurel's return please!! (Thank you LoT for Nope-ing her return in every timeline)

2. I don't like JWS (for irrational non-specific reasons, I enjoyed the heck out of that ice-cream scene in Dawson's Creek back in the day)

3. I want it to be Ronnie (just because I don;t like letting go of my theories)

I'm also wary of Supergirl moving to the CW (even though I intent to binge watch it its it is released to netflix) since I think Arrow will get shortchanged in an even bigger ways next season for promotion, general attention and possibly in the crossover as well.

Edited by Genki
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

I think JWS is Jay Garrick too. Like 99% sure at this point.

Do you or anyone recall what E2 Barry Allen's backstory was?  I remember that he did not grow up with Joe as his dad but what was his story.  Just normal childhood with him mom A-OK?  Was anything said?  (Yep, too lazy to check)

1 hour ago, Genki said:

I'm also wary of Supergirl moving to the CW (even though I intent to binge watch it its it is released to netflix) since I think Arrow will get shortchanged in an even bigger ways next season for promotion, general attention and possibly in the crossover as well.

I enjoyed the show but a few words of advice. 

Supergirl is a work in progress, but it has more good things going for it than bad by the end.  So don't get discouraged if it takes some time to warm up to it.  (The flying is really bad at first too, lol)  Kara and her sister's relationship and also with Hank and Cat are all excellent by the end.  Jimmy (He's been demoted in my mind from James until further notice) suffers as a LI in the back half of the season but still has potential.  The show will suffer from plot holes, fair warning, but no worse than the Flash.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

Quote

Do you or anyone recall what E2 Barry Allen's backstory was?  I remember that he did not grow up with Joe as his dad but what was his story.  Just normal childhood with him mom A-OK?  Was anything said?  (Yep, too lazy to check)

I think they've mentioned his parents were in Atlantis or something.

FWIW, I enjoy Supergirl way more than The Flash, especially after the last few episodes, which were REALLY bad, in my book (basically ever since they've fucked up with Jay/Zoom stuff, felt like an obvious retcon).

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I'd say my enjoyment of Supergirl and Flash are about even now though earlier in the season Flash was dipping in quality a lot so at times Supergirl was ahead.  I only made my warnings because I spent a lot of time in the forums when the show first premiered and people were really rough on it.  It's all apart of the Lowered Expectations plan of enjoyment.  I want people to watch even if it's not perfect. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)
3 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I think JWS is Jay Garrick too. Like 99% sure at this point.

I've long suspected that the Man in the Iron Mask would be E2 Henry. Didn't think about him being the real Jay Garrick but that actually makes a ton of sense.

Also,  make of this what you will but Canadagraphs said on spoilertv (Flash episode comment thead)

Spoiler

that they killed E2 Henry off.  he was very adamant about that.  

Edited by Morrigan2575
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FurryFury

FurryFury

(edited)

Yes it didn't feel like Jay being Zoom was planned well, if at all. The whole thing with NOBODY on Earth 2 recognizing The Flash as a well-known serial killer? The Jay that was interacting with the gang on E1 being a time remnant who had been convinced to die by his other self, yet that other self still for some reason being in love or whatever with Caitlin despite logically never interacting with her? Makes no sense at all.

Edited by FurryFury
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looptab

looptab

9 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

That is accurate, and he and Savage had a TRULY awful scene in which Savage threw that in his face. Maybe the worst acting (from the Savage guy) I have ever seen on a network show.

Oh God that was awful. And you could see Darvill blinking exaggerately and being grossed out (or maybe that was me projecting, haha)

10 hours ago, hogwash said:

 Really bad justification for not saving Laurel but I'm not picky.

9 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

They could've come up with a better answer then a lazy one that has so many easy loop holes in it.

I agree. I mean, he basically said that he removed Sara from the timeline before she died. Couldn't he have done the same for Laurel? Or his family for that matter. Was this addressed in previous episodes? I haven't been watching since the Far West episode, and just watched the finale, so maybe I missed a few things.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

I'm okay with Rip's excuse for not saving Laurel. He failed to save his family, in each timeline they died. That's what he was telling Sara would happen with Laurel. I just go with some deaths are fated to happen. Rip's family and Laurel are fixed points in time. There is nothing you can do to change that outcome

Which I guess means Sara wasn't fated to die and was able to be brought back because of that. They did say that no one has ever heard of the LP bringing people back from the dead. Sara was brought back because it wasn't her time to die yet. That's why Rip could save her and I guess Quentin, but not Laurel. In every timeline Laurel dies, it just who dies with her that can change. 

Edited by Sakura12
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nksarmi

nksarmi

1 hour ago, FurryFury said:

Yes it didn't feel like Jay being Zoom was planned well, if at all. The whole thing with NOBODY on Earth 2 recognizing The Flash as a well-known serial killer? The Jay that was interacting with the gang on E1 being a time remnant who had been convinced to die by his other self, yet that other self still for some reason being in love or whatever with Caitlin despite logically never interacting with her? Makes no sense at all.

I agree. I had so many arguments to why Jay couldn't be Zoom that were all based on what they had showed us that when the show itself hand waved that all away - I was just like wtf? You don't want me to care? Fine, I won't care. Whatever. I'm still not sure why I'm still watching Flash to be honest. Perhaps its because it connects with other shows I still enjoy and it doesn't feel like a show I can watch hit or miss.

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Guest

Guest

I don't watch Legends but I have to say that it's both hilarious and annoying that the Flarrow crossover this season was spent introducing 2 characters that are no longer on the show. LOL what.

But good for LoT for having the guts to get rid of the dead weight.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

18 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I don't watch Legends but I have to say that it's both hilarious and annoying that the Flarrow crossover this season was spent introducing 2 characters that are no longer on the show. LOL what.

But good for LoT for having the guts to get rid of the dead weight.

I really don't get why they cast her. I called her being terrible from her first short appearance on The Flash. The dude was even worse (and was it just me or did he seem REALLY checked out last night?). How can they get casting THAT wrong? And it's not as if she was just gorgeous and that's why they cast her...looks-wise, for the CW, she was average (and OMG can she please close her mouth!). Kendra was a pretty major part, so it's not a casting fail for a day player, which they could just whatevs. Bw those two huge fails and the Savage huge fail, they really need to have a talk with their casting people. And I'm talking basic acting ability...I think Brandon Routh has all the charisma of wilted lettuce, but he's not a bad actor, exactly. He's basically competent, which none of those three were, AT ALL.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

That's about what LoT usually gets. They've been at a 0.7 since episode 8 or something. With ep 12 and 14 getting a 0.6. 

Edited by Sakura12
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)
8 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

Isn't that actually pretty decent for LoT?

Yes similar to last week. Though it was shakier in the Demo and could fall to an 0.6 again

Edited by tarotx
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arjumand

arjumand

12 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

 

Or maybe they're going to off Emily and bring Earth-2 Laurel over from the Flash to be the new Black Canary, thereby ensuring her one true pairing with Green Arrow.

I'm KIDDING.

sutherland.jpg

 

9 hours ago, Lokiberry said:

Rip pointed out how there was no possible way to save Laurel on LoT, and on Flash they made it clear that the dopplegangers are not interchangeable with their E1 counterparts. It's like they're shouting, "She's dead, dead, dead! Gone, gone, gone! Bye bye birdie!" on every show in the flarrowverse. (and yes, I do think those dead birds were about Laurel)

 

I keep wanting to make a dead parrot sketch joke. Then I watched the latest episode, and when Wells? asked, "Did you know her?" Caitlin answered, "We loved her", very solemnly, and I was like, really? For real? You loved her? Whoa.

Well, tough shit, Slightly Annoying Sleet. She's dead, she's shuffled off her mortal coil, run down the curtain, and joined the bleedin' choir invisible! She's an ex-canary!

Re. LoT - Hooray, the Hawks are gone! They're gone! They annoyed me till the last second, but now they're gone! I didn't mind the finale, except for Hawks, and maybe once Prison Break 2: Middle Eastern Boogaloo is done, we'll find a loophole to the whole 'Snart is dead' debacle.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

8 minutes ago, tarotx said:

Yes similar to last week. Though it was shakier in the Demo and could fall to an 0.6 again

how weak was the 0.7 demo?  Come on give this to me! SPN has been really good lately :-)

My loyalty to SPN is 11 years and counting, it's almost a habit at this point.  I'm totally rooting for SPN to get better ratings than LoT on Thursdays next season 

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tarotx

tarotx

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

how weak was the 0.7 demo?  Come on give this to me! SPN has been really good lately :-)

My loyalty to SPN is 11 years and counting, it's almost a habit at this point.  I'm totally rooting for SPN to get better ratings than LoT on Thursdays next season 

 

Legends have lost a lot of the cast at times so that has affected its numbers. And since fan fav Snart isn't a series regular anymore that could play a huge factor next season. Sometimes moving to the fall can help steady a show though so fingers crossed for me and the other LOT fans :p

Lot had a decent 7 in the first half hour and a variable 6-6.5 in the second half hour. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

SPN has a real loyal fanbase, good for them. I gave up on that show around Season 5 or 4. It's another way too male focused show that kills off all the women, yet the men can keep coming back to life. That's not my type of show. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Velocity23

Velocity23

Their lowest demo was on May 5th

Here are the un-rounded FINALS for Thursday, May 5:

Grey's Anatomy ................ 2.006
Scandal ............................. 1.500
The Catch ......................... 0.916

The Big Bang Theory ........ 2.970 +
The Odd Couple ............... 1.580
Mom .................................. 1.546 -
2 Broke Girls ..................... 1.595
Rush Hour ......................... 0.836 -

Strong ................................ 0.648
The Blacklist ...................... 1.244
Game of Silence ................ 0.658

Bones ................................ 0.908
American Grit .................... 0.557

Legends of Tomorrow ........ 0.586
The 100 .............................. 0.407

http://www.spottedratings.com/2016/05/spotted-ratings-thursday-5516.html

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
12 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I hate to say it, but considering how Arrow and SPN took a hit in ratings because of pre-emptions, how high LoT was trending tonight, and the fact that season finales tend to get a ratings bump, I'm guessing it might tie or beat Arrow for second place show on the network this week.

Nope - Arrow is still ahead of LoT in both demo and total viewers this season (don't think that will change unless Arrow drops drastically next week)...

CW 2015-16 Season Ratings (updated 5/20/16)
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cw-2015-16-season-ratings-38429/ 

ETA: Sorry, I just noticed you said "this week" and I was reading it as in general.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

TV Line interview with MG...

Legends of Tomorrow Boss Talks About Team's Latest Loss, JSA Member's Intro
By Matt Webb Mitovich and Vlada Gelman / May 19 2016, 6:00 PM PDT
http://tvline.com/2016/05/19/legends-of-tomorrow-season-1-finale-spoilers-hawkgirl-leaves-hourman-introduction/ 

Quote

TVLINE | Will we see Kendra and Carter at all in Season 2?
We don’t know. As with all things, if we have the right story, absolutely. If Ciara and Falk [Hentschel] are amenable and game… What’s really wonderful about this universe that we’ve built up [is] no one’s ever gone forever. I’ve been saying with respect to [Arrow’s] Laurel, dead is not goodbye. And alive and goodbye is not goodbye. It’s just a matter of those characters coming back around in an organic way, especially on Legends, where the conceit of the show has always been the ship itself is a revolving door. There can always be old faces returning and new faces being introduced. That’s part of the show.

Incidentally, when a hooded guy (Rex Tyler) first appeared in LoT last night, my immediate thought was - 'okay, are they trying to make a weak imitation of SA's Arrow?

legends-hourman.jpeg?w=300&h=297

Edited by tv echo
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Sakura12

Sakura12

That's a toned down version of Hourman's costume. It has nothing to do with Arrow. Wearing a hood is not a concept created by Arrow. Considering that's not even Green Arrow's costume in the comics. So maybe Arrow copied his or any other hooded hero's costume. 

1274697-822900_hourman_super.jpg

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I mean Hourman, really? Is his superpower the ability to tell time really, really accurately?

From what I can tell - not sure if it'll be the same in the show - but there's a drug that he takes that increases his strength and speed for the hour after he takes it.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

From what I can tell - not sure if it'll be the same in the show - but there's a drug that he takes that increases his strength and speed for the hour after he takes it.

They are really scraping the bottom of the barrel of superheroes.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I'm not a comics reader.  So when I see a guy in a hood appearing mysteriously out of the dark on a superhero tv show, I think "Arrow" now.

Ci2lIT3VEAERRVg.jpg

Edited by tv echo
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Sakura12

Sakura12

DC and their "we are not a shared universe but can't have the same heroes existing on tv and the movies" is really stupid. Or they think people are stupid and will not be able to tell the difference. 

They are introducing the Justice Society of America, that's where Hourman's from. I liked that they took the hourglass off of his costume, because that does look stupid. Most of them have weird powers. 

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I actually thought he looked a bit like Red Robin if he suit had been colored properly. Anyway, I never thought of Arrow at all when I saw him. I'm sure they've wanted some characters they haven't gotten but Green Arrow wasn't exactly an "A-list" superhero and yet CW now has a four-show universe that started with him. I think sometimes comic book fans enjoy the C and D list characters and the rest of us get to learn about them. I think it's kind of fun. 

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ruby24

ruby24

I don't know, I think if they're going to go all in with this 4 night, DC lineup it'd be cool if their fourth show was something a little more iconic. I wish they could do Green Lantern/Hal Jordan.

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