Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Primal Slayer]

I'm going to take Connor Hawke being John Diggle Jr. as them showing that they are not beholden to the because comic argument. A name is just a name and people can go by any other name. 

Yeah but they didn't have the balls to give us a show with a Green Arrow not named Oliver Queen or a Flash series with some guy not named Barry Allen. 

 

They did it perfectly with Thea, give her the middle name of Dearden or whatever to wink wink at Mia Dearden but Mia could still very well exist, we just don't need to be introduced to her and have her get a drastic change over. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[ComicFan777]

I have wondered since 4.10 if they were trying to downplay her character.  No POV in 4.10.  In 4.13 they had Felicity belittle herself about the importance of her dad problems in comparison to Thea and the masks.  In 4.14 Thea dismisses OQ lying to FS like it's no big thing.  In 4.15 she had a POV but not the time to express it like everyone else weighing in on THE LIE.

 

Does Felicity get much of a POV though?  I remember last season many people were wondering what she was thinking a lot of the time, too.  She has the second highest amount of screentime, so it's not a lack of scenes.  Felicity generally keeps things to herself and hides it with humor, so we rarely see what she is really thinking - at least I think so.

 

[statsgirl]

Connor felt that it was his job to stay and fight for the city.  He was wiling to fight and die for it.

 

Even if Felicity didn't want to join Oliver's pity party, wouldn't there have been a police force she could have helped?  Some resistance fighters she could have helped organize?  It's not like she left town to regroup and fight again, she abandoned Star City to the mobs.  It feels like they're writing her as selfish and she's not.

[Lokiberry]

I'm going to take Connor Hawke being John Diggle Jr. as them showing that they are not beholden to the because comic argument. A name is just a name and people can go by any other name. 

I'm going to whine, so I apologize in advance. Malcolm Merlyn can be Ra's al Ghul and the adorable John Diggle Jr can be Connor Hawke, and and that's just neat-o, comics be damned; but Sara Lance can't be the Black Canary because comics are sacrosanct? That's not just having your cake and eating it too, it's straight up hypocrisy, My respect for Guggie, et al just dropped another notch.

[nksarmi]

Where did John Jr. pull that name from? Was he listening to Oliver's old monologue and take it to heart, "To do this, I must become someone else". 

 

Did people really want them to because comics this by making Oliver have yet another son with someone else? I liked him being Dig's son. I just wish Sara was Red Arrow or something. It would've more interesting for Sara Lance to meet the adult version of Diggle's daughter that was named after her as well as old man Oliver Queen. Which I'm also happy they at least got to interact since we had to skip that so Laurel could have a storyline. 

 

The one thing I like about it being Diggle's son is the very heavy implication that Diggle doesn't die on Arrow this season since he hasn't fathered the boy yet. :)

[jay741982]

His real name is John Diggle Jr. but after he failed to save his father's life, he took the name Connor Hawke because he felt that he didn't deserved to be a John Diggle.

I think.

 

That seems rather cowardly, to take off and abandon Oliver all alone with Connor.  The Felicity Smoak I know, who said "if you're not leaving, I'm not leaving" would have stayed till the very end.

 

It feels like she's the one who is a coward and not someone who is a true blue savior of the city.

I took it as everyone she loved and cared about was dead, she's not a physical fighter and the town was overrun with bad guys. They didn't elaborate further maybe she was forced to leave town or she was actually killed. Oliver said she left town yet Sara said afterward that all her family and friends were dead except Oliver

[ComicFan777]

Connor felt that it was his job to stay and fight for the city.  He was wiling to fight and die for it.

 

Even if Felicity didn't want to join Oliver's pity party, wouldn't there have been a police force she could have helped?  Some resistance fighters she could have helped organize?  It's not like she left town to regroup and fight again, she abandoned Star City to the mobs.  It feels like they're writing her as selfish and she's not.

 

In the apocalyptic future for Star City, it didn't look like there was much tech around.  It was a very crude world where it would be dangerous for people who cannot fight.  Felicity's specialty is tech.  She runs comms to direct people to safety.  If all cameras are out, she cannot have eyes on the streets.  It would be very difficult for her to work on her own.

 

Even if Connor was out on the streets, what can Felicity do in the lair?  She cannot help him without working cameras on the streets.  It didn't even look like there was electricity since everything was lit with fire.  Connor said that the city didn't want to be saved - recruitment would be difficult.  Maybe she needed to relocate her family to somewhere safer - we don't know if she moved on.

 

I imagine she relocated to a different city that had electricity with a team of fighters that she could help be their eyes on the streets - where her skills could be most utilized.  Just because she isn't living in Star City doesn't mean that she is not helping people anymore.

 

[nksarmi]

What I got was that Quentin, Diggle, Thea and Laurel all died trying to save the city and Felicity walked out.

On top of yesterday's Arrow, are they trying to kill Felicity's popularity for good?

 

They didn't really say how Thea or Laurel died which means either of them could be the death from this season.  They definitely implied that Quentin and Diggle were around to help Oliver and they failed. They also implied that Sara and Ray might have made the difference.  I'm guessing Flash was unavailable to help.

 

They also basically said that after 15 more years of whatever crap goes down in Star City every May - that people just evacuated the city and gave up on it. So I don't think that it's a negative that if Oliver and Felicity weren't together and their friends died and everyone else left the city that Felicity gave up and left too.  And she still might not have done it until she realized Oliver had gone dead inside and she couldn't reach him.

[wonderwall]

Did y'all get that Oliver said "Everything OUR company was working on..."? Hmm I'm intrigued

[AyChihuahua]

Oliver was believed to be dead, so that's probably when she left. 

 

I don't THINK Thea was mentioned at all. I'd have to rewatch, and I don't want to, but I think the "gone" was in response to Sara asking about Felicity and Laurel. Then later he says Felicity left. So if his solemn "gone" re Felicity does not mean dead in Oliver's weird-ass terminology, then it should be the same for Laurel, that she's not dead, just not in the city. I think only Quentin and Digg were very clearly dead, and both certainly sounded like it was somewhere around the uprising (apparently 2031).

[Artsda]

I think they left Felicity alive so she could appear in the timeline.

[Orion]

This is the first episode of LOT that I've watched. It was much better than I expected and definitely makes me regret that they removed Sara from Arrow. CL really has such a dynamic fighting style. I'll always want Arrow to be OTA focused but she would have been an amazing recurring mask. The stunts really put to shame what we've been given this year on Arrow with the obvious stunt doubles, hair flipping and Oliver's lack of abilities. I don't know if this episode was the exception or the rule as far as that goes but CL and John Diggle Jr. were super enjoyable.

However you can tell that this is a Guggenheim project. The dialogue left a lot to be desired. A few more sentences here or there would have made a world of difference. The way that conversation with Oliver and Sara was left made me wonder why I'm watching the Green Arrow at all if he isn't able to save the city. The best part of Arrow is that a guy with a bow and arrow, his skills and his perseverance overcome the greatest obstacles. Why am I watching a show that needs other heroes because my hero isn't enough? There shouldn't be this doubt on when Felicity left or why. Either leave it at gone or set the stage properly, "After the city fell and everyone died - including me, Felicity left." There no ambiguity. Guggie dialogue matters - write clearly.  

 

Loved that they included some of the musical score from Arrow especially Slade's theme.

 

Although it does warm my heart that after last nights Arrow, every time Oliver walks outside he has to look up and see the "Smoak" name towering over him everywhere he goes in Starling City.

[ComicFan777]

I would imagine the writers would want to leave the episode with ambiguity because they don't want to lock any particular future elements down.  Non-specific elements let people keep guessing into what could be and that would maintain interest rather than lose it to a specific timeline that people might not like in the future. We only really see Oliver in the future and we shouldn't be surprised that he might still have the case of the stupids when everyone else is gone - that really doesn't spoil anything.  Putting out a vague future wouldn't alienate anyone and it would keep people talking.   

Edited February 26, 2016 by ComicFan777

[statsgirl]

I was wondering about Rip telling everyone they can change the timeline ..... how is defeating Vandal Savage going to keep Slade Jr. from taking over Star City?

 

And since Sara and Ray weren't around to help in 2021, does that mean that they died before that?

[kismet]

Alan Sepinwall proving yet again why he's my favorite superhero TV show critic:

How 'Agent Carter' became the best comic book show nobody's watching

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/how-agent-carter-became-the-best-comic-book-show-nobodys-watching

Well said!

I really hope they find a way to keep Agent Carter. Even if they drop it to a 3 night mini-series or limited run series. Sometimes the plot does drag, but when it's on ~ it's so amazing. I do like when they have the 2hr long episodes because I feel like it sets the mood & gets you invested in the story.

[bijoux]

Also how sweet was it that hte passcode was Felicity's birthday? :')

 

ETA: MY HEADCANON HAS BEEN DENIED. WHY WOULD MG DO THIS

 

What's the passcode and what headcanon?

Edited February 26, 2016 by bijoux

[wonderwall]

What's the passcode and what headcanon?

 

5/4/1987, for a second I thought it was Felicity's birthday even though she's probably turning 26 this year and not 29 *sigh* I thought it was her birthday. 

[Password]

She would be turning 27 this year wouldn't she? She said she was 25 last year (when Oliver died) to Ray. And that was super early in the year... Actually like 2014 December.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Password

[wonderwall]

She would be turning 27 this year wouldn't she? She said she was 25 last year (when Oliver died) to Ray. And that was super early in the year... Actually like 2014 December.

Yeah you're right. I wasn't thinking straight :p 

[bijoux]

As someone with a bacis grasp of arithmetics, I'd say that it's not possible Felicity was born in 1987, seeing as she told Ray she was 25 last year,which would make either 1988 or 1989 her birth year, depending on which month she was born in. However, I have been proven over and over that this is not a trait shared by the writers of these shows.

 

I'm only going off of Youtube clips that I found, so I might be missing some things here.

 

It's somewhat ridiculous, but I find it sweet that Oliver taught John's kid how to shoot a bow and arrow. He's the most logical choice. I doubt Dig ever got into it and Lyla must have had her hands full with ARGUS.

 

The old man make up and beard were actually okay when Oliver wasn't in costume. It's the costume that made the beard ridiculous for some reason. It ruins everything. I enjoyed Steve's old man voice as well and I laughed out loud at, Put the arrow down, John. You're embarassing yourself. Grumpy cat Oliver, I always welcome you. I did find it odd that he called out to Connor while fighting Grant Wilson, John would have felt more natural coming from him. But nice team work and a nod to Oliver tying up Slade with a bolo arrow in the S2 final fight.

 

God damn, is that man spry at 60. I guess being a hermit in a torn down underground lair with no connection to human race gave him all the time in the world to work out. Does he parkour over the debris?

 

Apparently he was publicaly maimed by another Wilson. Yeesh. He really is the writers' Torture Ken doll.

 

I have some questions that weren't answered in the clips I watched. Was it explained how old Grant was and did he even know Slade or just of him? Were there any clues to what lies in store for this version of SC, Oliver and Starling after the legends got on their ship?

[FurryFury]

Nope, they were really vague about the future (understandably). As for Grant, he just said Slade was his dad, that's it. Although I think it was stated that the future that has come to pass was due to Sara and Ray not helping Starling City because they never got back. Time travel on LOT doesn't make much sense (the same as on The Flash, really).

Edited February 26, 2016 by FurryFury

[bijoux]

Good thing one of those shows doesn't revolve around time travel then.

 

Nice gut punch with Oliver ending up where he feared he would in S3, dying down in the lair. 

[tv echo]

I also watched the "Star City 2046" episode of LoT.  I thought SA did an excellent job playing an old, bitter Oliver.  And Connor Hawke as Diggle's son was great. Grant Wilson, as Slade's son, looked too young to have battled and defeated Oliver 15 years prior.

 

I thought that they did a pretty good job of carefully NOT eliminating anyone as a suspect for the 2016 grave other than Felicity (which we already knew).  We do know that in this version of 2046, Diggle and "Captain Lance" are dead.  However, we don't know when they died or how.

 

Either Grant or Connor (I don't recall which) asked if Sara was related to the "late Captain Lance".  That implies but doesn't necessarily say outright that Quentin was still alive in 2031.  Quentin might've been a city legend.

 

Diggle has not been completely eliminated from the 2016 grave for the following reasons.  Initially, I thought that Diggle was still a suspect because Lyla could be pregnant when Diggle dies in 2016, which would make Connor only about 29 years old.  However, Connor says, "My dad is dead because I couldn't save him." This implies that Diggle survived to live long enough for Connor to know him.  However, this is the future timeline in which Vandal Savage is not defeated and Sara/Ray never return to Star City.  But LoT will end before Arrow S4 ends, with presumably the Legends defeating Savage.  What if Diggle dies in 2016 in a timeline where Savage is defeated?  I don't want this, but I'm just saying we can't assume that Diggle is in the clear.  (Quentin might also have died in 2016 and "Connor" might never exist in a future timeline where Savage is defeated.)

 

In this episode, Rip says that this is the future timeline where Sara and Ray never return to Star City.  The official episode synopsis says that this is the future "where they never stop Savage".  Therefore, I conclude that the reason Sara and Ray never return to Star City is because they're either killed by an undefeated Savage or lost in time.

 

As for Laurel, Thea and Felicity...

 

Sara: "What happened to you? To Laurel, to my dad... Felicity." 
Oliver: "They're gone. All of them." 
Sara: "What do you mean...Ollie?
Oliver: "Gone. What do you want me to say, Sara? 30 years ago, you and Ray hopped on a spaceship, and you never came back."

 

(Later)
Oliver: "Felicity left, after everything that happened. Everything her company was working on is being kept in a warehouse at Adams and O'Neil. Entry code is 4-5-8-7."

 

When Oliver said that they were all "gone," I assumed he meant dead, but then he said that "Felicity left, after everything happened."  So I don't think "gone" necessarily means dead.(*)  And by "everything happened", he could've just meant the 2031 Uprising when Grant Wilson brought an army to Star City and took over, defeating Team Arrow.  So we don't know if Felicity is dead or if she just left the city and is still alive somewhere.  Same for Laurel and Thea - they could either be dead or living somewhere else.  It was either sloppy writing or deliberately ambiguous writing.

 

(*  For example, on The Walking Dead last season, Beth was with Darryl when she was kidnapped and taken away in a car.  Later when Rick asked about her, Darryl just said that she was "gone".)

 

We don't know why Felicity left or the circumstances.  We can't assume anything, let alone the worst possible motive. For all we know, Oliver drove her away.  Or she joined Team Flash in Central City.  We do know that Oliver lost an arm to Grant Wilson in the 2031 Uprising and then Oliver stopped fighting, disappeared, leaving everyone (including Connor) to believe he was dead.  For all we know, he spent the next 14 years on Lian Yu, only returning to Star City the year before. The point is, if Felicity left, she must have had a good reason.  After watching four seasons of Arrow, we know she has plenty of courage and is not a quitter, so there must have been a pretty good reason for her departure.

 

The fact that there is a Smoak Technologies doesn't necessarily mean that Oliver & Felicity never got back together or never married.  Some women keep their own name after marriage.  But Smoak Technologies somehow comes into being sometime before 2031.

 

There's also the discrepancy with the Flash future headline that referred to "Queen Inc." - which apparently doesn't exist in this version of 2046.  So we still don't know how that fits in the timeline.

 

Someone on twitter asked MG if the code used on LoT (4-5-87) was Felicity's date of birth, and MG replied "Nope":

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/703040960188383234

 

He then said that the numbers were Vince Terranova's "ident code" from the TV show, Wiseguy (which he loves):
https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/703041321485758464

 

Someone then asked when was Felicity's birthday, and MG responded:

Marc Guggenheim ‏@mguggenheim
Felicity fans on my feed curious about Felicity's birthday: We haven't established one yet. But if pressed, I'd say February 29. To be cruel
6:23 PM - 25 Feb 2016

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/703042796534439936
(Check out the fan replies...)

Edited February 26, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

We do know that in 2046, Diggle and "Captain Lance" are dead.  However, we don't know when they died or how.

 

I could be wrong but I don't think that's correct.  From what I understand Lance died when Grant showed up in Star City for his revenge, circa 2031.  Diggle lived long enough to have a son that carries a massive load of guilt around because he couldn't save his father.  This implies that both Diggle and Lance lived well beyond 2016.  

[tv echo]

The only references to Lance were Grant or Connor (I don't recall which) asking Sara if she was related to the "late Captain Lance" and then Oliver saying that they were all "gone" in response to Sara asking about Laurel, her father and Felicity.

 

As for Diggle, I already explained in my post above that he could still have died in 2016 in a future where the Legends do defeat Savage and return to Star City.

 

I'm not saying this is likely - just possible.  I just don't think the EPs would outright eliminate any suspects from the grave this early. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

Even if Sara and Palmer don't go back to SC in 2016, it doesn't mean this future happens in the Earth-1 timeline. Anything can happen to disrupt whatever created this future. Maybe Captain Cold sneezes in China and Grant Wilson trips and falls on his head.

 

The whole concept of multiple realities means every possible future is a potential unrealized reality for every possible timeline.

 

Sigh. This is what I get from watching a time travel show in which the wonderful fake science of time travel is not taken seriously.

Edited February 26, 2016 by dtissagirl

[bijoux]

  Diggle lived long enough to have a son that carries a massive load of guilt around because he couldn't save his father.

 

Doesn't it just make him and Oliver perfect for each other? The actor really was pretty good for his limited screentime. I feel like he was a worthy offspring to Dig and Lyla.

 

As for Lance being dead, that's really very likely since he's be pushin 90 in 2046. 

 

Edit: Aw, I saw a gif with Sara and old Oliver hugging. That hasn't been clipped for Youtube. I'm gonna have to watch the whole episode, aren't I?

Edited February 26, 2016 by bijoux

[AyChihuahua]

Doesn't it just make him and Oliver perfect for each other? The actor really was pretty good for his limited screentime. I feel like he was a worthy offspring to Dig and Lyla.

 

As for Lance being dead, that's really very likely since he's be pushin 90 in 2046. 

 

Edit: Aw, I saw a gif with Sara and old Oliver hugging. That hasn't been clipped for Youtube. I'm gonna have to watch the whole episode, aren't I?

It was the first time I've watched, and I thought the show was pretty terrible. The acting is REALLY not good (and I think they were at least teasing a love triangle bw Ray, Hawklady, and the other half of Firestorm...what a TERRIBLE IDEA).

 

BUT John Diggle, Jr. was quite good, Sara's still good, old Oliver was kind of funny in his grouchiness (although the pointy beard made him look like an elf). I won't be back to the show, but def watch, just for the Felicity Smoak name-drops and JDJ.

Edited February 26, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[foreverevolving]

 

There's also the discrepancy with the Flash future headline that referred to "Queen Inc." - which apparently doesn't exist in this version of 2046.  So we still don't know how that fits in the timeline.

 

 

For all we know the merger could have still happened in 2024 and than Felicity established Smoak Tech, Smoak Tech was a subsidiary of Queen Inc which she got to keep after the merger. I assume both Queen Consolidated and Palmer Tech had multiple sister and baby companies under their names which were owned by the company but had a different name.

[Delphi]

In regards to age, I was born in 88 and I'm 27. It's more likely that Felicity was born in 1990 or 1991.

And in regards to her cowardice, I'm reminded of No Man's Land where Oracle ran Gotham City during its destruction with barely any access to tech, but No Man's Land lasted only a year and her resources were running out. I'd like to think that Felicity fought the good fight as long as she could before finally throwing in the towel. Honestly, fifteen years of an apocalypse I think most pragmatic people would know when to accept defeat.

I enjoyed last night's episode a lot actually and I kinda wish it had been another two parter so that we could have delved a bit more into what happened.

[bijoux]

In regards to age, I was born in 88 and I'm 27. It's more likely that Felicity was born in 1990 or 1991. 

 

She told Ray she was 25 sometime last winter. 1990 may be possible, if a stretch, 1991 is definitely out. 

[tv echo]

MG explained to EW why Connor Hawke was not Oliver's son, and EW also interviewed Joseph David-Jones (who played Connor)...

 

Legends of Tomorrow boss and Joseph David-Jones dissect Green Arrow reveal
BY NATALIE ABRAMS  Posted February 25 2016 — 9:11 PM EST
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/25/legends-tomorrow-green-arrow-connor-hawke-diggle

“We know on Arrow that Oliver already has a son, William, who is not Connor Hawke,” executive producer Marc Guggenheim tells EW. “It just felt a little duplicative in light of the fact that this season we’re doing a storyline about Oliver having a son. It felt like, ‘Oliver’s got a son on Arrow! He’s got another son on Legends!’ As we were talking about it, quite frankly I forget who pitched the idea of, ‘Wouldn’t it be fun if this was Diggle’s son?’ but it seemed organic, especially since we took the idea of Oliver as the dad off the table.” And in case you’re wondering, that was this version of the Green Arrow who popped up in the speed cannon on The Flash.
*  *  *
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Has everything that Connor Hawke has done been driven by losing his dad?
JOSEPH DAVID-JONES: It is. The reason he doesn’t take Diggle as his name — his name is John Diggle Jr. — is because he feels regret about not being strong enough to save his father. He doesn’t even deserve to have his father’s name, because he was too weak to protect him or help him during this Uprising. He takes the name Connor Hawke until he can live up to his father’s name and become strong enough to defend the city and be the hero that the Green Arrow was.
 

Did he have any kind of relationship with Diggle before his death?
Yeah, up until the death. It doesn’t come up in the episode at what point in time he was killed, but the writers told me he grew up with his father — he loves his father. His father was taken when he was a teenager. Connor was definitely there and able to remember his father and all the values his father taught him.
*  *  * 
Legends of Tomorrow plans to cycle in different heroes on the team. Is there a possibility we could see Connor Hawke as part of the team at any point?
I think there is a strong possibility. I’m talking to the writers about what they plan on doing as far as bringing me back as potentially a series regular or recurring for the show. Nothing has been decided. It’s all so up in the air, but I know they do plan on cycling different heroes onto the ship, so we’ll have to see. I hope this isn’t the last time we’ll see Connor Hawke.

[tv echo]

Here are some of SA's comments from a Variety interview about this LoT episode...

 

‘DC’s Legends of Tomorrow’: Stephen Amell Previews a ‘Defeated’ Oliver and New Green Arrow in Future Star City
Laura Prudom  FEBRUARY 25, 2016 | 03:50PM PT
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/legends-of-tomorrow-connor-hawke-green-arrow-oliver-star-city-2046-1201715349/

This bleak future runs counter to everything Oliver has been fighting for in “Arrow” – how broken is he by the idea that he truly has failed his city?
It’s a very defeated Oliver when we catch up with him in the future, and a very reclusive Oliver. I think that he is a guy that’s just come to accept that this is the way that Star City is going to be, in large part because… when this cataclysmic event happens, the absence of the Legends and not having them by their side really played a huge part in the wrong team winning. But I think what we establish in “Legends” is that this is a potential future. This is a potential timeline that hopefully can be fixed, because it is rather bleak.
*  *  *
How else has Oliver changed over the 30 years between “Arrow” and this potential future in “Legends,” apart from losing an arm and embracing facial hair?
It’s tough to say, because we catch such a very brief glimpse of him and we really focus on one linear storyline, which is, “I was the Green Arrow. I gave up being the Green Arrow. Why did I give it up and why is Connor Hawke now doing it?” All of the peripheral things — be it the fate of Laurel, Diggle, Thea, Captain Lance, Felicity — all of those things are left a little bit up to the imagination, actually, so maybe we will be able to touch on them in a future episode, if we ever go back to Star City 2046.

[MsSchadenfreude]

I don't usually watch LOT, but that episode was fun.

 

Curmudgeon Oliver Queen for the win! Between yelling "get off my lawn...er...lair" to Sara and JohnConner and then telling JohnConner to put down the arrow because he was embarrassing himself. Bwahahahaha! Loved it. 

 

Felicity founded Smoak Technologies because of course she does.  Doesn't matter the timeline, Felicity is always a smart cookie.

 

 I am all for JohnConner Digglehawke being the next Green Arrow in any timeline. John was such a huge part of trying to save Star City and even if they failed during the Uprising, it just seems right somehow that John's son will now be a huge part of trying to save Star City again in this timeline. Besides, if everyone else is gone in this timeline :(, I just like knowing that Oliver and Diggle still have a connection even if it is through his son. 

 

I'm glad we got some nice Sara/Oliver scenes since we basically got nothing in Arrow after Sara was brought back. The two have a connection after all they went through together so it was nice seeing it acknowledged.

 

Even in another timeline, being a Wilson makes you batshit crazy.

 

Also, I don't understand the Firestorm thing (and never read the comics). They can read each other's thoughts when they are two separate people, but only sometimes.  Then sometimes they're one person and catch fire. Yeah, no clue. LOL.

 

I'm sure I got the timeline stuff wrong as well because I don't understand how time travel works on these shows.  It doesn't seem consistent.

Edited February 26, 2016 by MsSchadenfreude

[tv echo]

Early overnight ratings for this LoT episode were 0.9 and 2.46...
http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/02/ratings-news-26th-february-2016.html

[looptab]

The "You're embarassing yourself" line was probably my favorite Oliver line. But the dynamic I enjoyed the most was the Snart/Rory one. It seemed weird that they kept Ray in the ship while Sara went around crying for her city - when she never seemed to care that much about it, to me. But she was the character that made the more sense, what with Oliver and Slade jr. - plus the one having a family there (does Ray even have a family?). 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Weird. I would have thought Ray had more a connection with the city because of his attempt to better the lives of the people in it. But Sara has the connection with Oliver, so it makes sense to play that up. (Plus, I have a feeling that in any timeline, Oliver will get a twitch under his eye when Ray is within close proximity). I may just have to grit my teeth and watch this episode of LOT for Oliver and Diggle's son. 

[Menrva]

Okay, forgive me for being late to the party, but I finally just watched this week's Flash episode…and let me get this straight. Barry beat King Shark…with a Sharknado? Apologies if this has already been discussed. I'm also amused that my autocorrect apparently recognizes "sharknado" as a word and didn't try to replace it with anything…

[Primal Slayer]

The reasoning for taking up another name is stupid as hell, but they probably should've added him to the cast after this episode tbh. A displaced future hero could be interesting and could add plenty charecter drama since his future may never come to be, he may never come to be.

[looptab]

Weird. I would have thought Ray had more a connection with the city because of his attempt to better the lives of the people in it. 

Yeah, that's what I thought would happen before watching. But Ray is barely involved. Anyway,you should  watch it. :) 

[Primal Slayer]

But Sara Diggle better have an important future.

[AyChihuahua]

Weird. I would have thought Ray had more a connection with the city because of his attempt to better the lives of the people in it. But Sara has the connection with Oliver, so it makes sense to play that up. (Plus, I have a feeling that in any timeline, Oliver will get a twitch under his eye when Ray is within close proximity). I may just have to grit my teeth and watch this episode of LOT for Oliver and Diggle's son. 

It was an eye-opening experience for me. I vowed never to watch any version of a spinoff with Ray the Cane Toad, bc I hate him more than anyone ever (although Baby Mama is a very close second). But I sort of figured I was missing out on something, bc it sounds like goofy fun and I love Sara. I watched last night because I was hoping seeing Oliver suffer would chill me out a bit on my anger towards him, but I realized I'm really not missing anything with the show. The only things I liked were Sara, oldgrouchyOliver, and John Diggle, Jr. The latter two were only in this episode, and Sara is not enough to counter the fact that I didn't care for any other character. I thought the acting was terrible. I guess the Cold actor's enunciation thing just isn't for me, bc I thought he was ridiculously mannered. Stein, even though I love Garber, was meh. Hawklady's terrible, the other half of Firestorm is terrible, Ray Palmer is a wet slice of Wonderbread. Rip was a douche. The firebug guy was okay, I guess (though I am maybe the only person who liked Blade 3 - blame Ryan Reynolds and his abs - and he played the main villain, so I have a tiny soft spot for him).

[SmallScreenDiva]

It was an eye-opening experience for me. I vowed never to watch any version of a spinoff with Ray the Cane Toad, bc I hate him more than anyone ever (although Baby Mama is a very close second). But I sort of figured I was missing out on something, bc it sounds like goofy fun and I love Sara. I watched last night because I was hoping seeing Oliver suffer would chill me out a bit on my anger towards him, but I realized I'm really not missing anything with the show. The only things I liked were Sara, oldgrouchyOliver, and John Diggle, Jr. The latter two were only in this episode, and Sara is not enough to counter the fact that I didn't care for any other character. I thought the acting was terrible. I guess the Cold actor's enunciation thing just isn't for me, bc I thought he was ridiculously mannered. Stein, even though I love Garber, was meh. Hawklady's terrible, the other half of Firestorm is terrible, Ray Palmer is a wet slice of Wonderbread. Rip was a douche. The firebug guy was okay, I guess (though I am maybe the only person who liked Blade 3 - blame Ryan Reynolds and his abs - and he played the main villain, so I have a tiny soft spot for him).

 

I'm not a fan of Sara, so she's actually one of the reasons I'm not watching LoT. And strangely enough, I actually do like Ray and enjoy him. But he wasn't enough to tempt me. Nor were Victor Garber, Wentworth Miller and Arthur Darvill, whom I adore. But I'm really curious about Oliver and Diggle's son's dynamic. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[bijoux]

What firebug guy, Heatwave? From what I've seen, he looks slightly developmentally challenged.

But, guys, John Connor and Oliver has a robotic arm. It's Terminator Lite!

[AyChihuahua]

I'm not a fan of Sara, so she's actually one of the reasons I'm not watching LoT. And strangely enough, I actually do like Ray and enjoy him. But he wasn't enough to tempt me. Nor were Victor Garber, Wentworth Miller and Arthur Darvill, whom I adore. But I'm really curious about Oliver and Diggle's son's dynamic. 

You should definitely watch this episode. Curmudgeon Oliver is entertaining, and the JDJ actor was quite good.

 

It's pretty Sara-heavy, though.

[AyChihuahua]

What firebug guy, Heatwave? From what I've seen, he looks slightly developmentally challenged.

But, guys, John Connor and Oliver has a robotic arm. It's Terminator Lite!

Yeah, Heatwave. Overacted, but for me in a slightly more fun way than Cold.

 

Don't get me wrong, I didn't like anyone enough to watch again. The bad far outweighed the good.

[Delphi]

I'm the exact opposite as of late. I look forward to Thursday night tv way more than Arrow lately.

LoT might be a bit nonsensical, but I'm enjoying Sara, Ray, Stein and Cold enough for it to be mindless fun. I get what you mean about whatever Wentworth is doing with his voice, it bugged my better half as well.

[looptab]

Yeah, Legends is just fun. I never thought I'd be into it, because I was never that into sci-fi/time travel. But it's the kind of show I can watch without getting too worked up about the characters and just enjoy. 

BTW, the episode with Oliver is not what I would recommend to a newcomer. I'd say watch ep.4. That's the one that sold me.

[bijoux]

It was pointed out on Tumblr that the Smoak Technologies logo consists of two arrowheads pointing in opposing directions.

 

[lemotomato]

Two arrowheads that overlap. Awww