S04.E10: Women Transform the World

[CooperTV]

Quote

 

Secretary of State McCord struggles with the realization that she may need to advise the Afghan government that a compromise with the Taliban may be better than a war with them. Also, Henry uses Dmitri as bait to convince a Russian spy to help the U.S., and Daisy returns from maternity leave and decides to finally tell Joe’s mother about the baby.

 

Promos

[shapeshifter]

The Taliban vs women stuff was depressing.

Hormonal Daisy wasn't much less depressing.

 

So how exactly would the CIA use the Stemitri photos as blackmail? Well, let me count the ways:

1. Blackmail Henry
2. Blackmail Stevie
3. Blackmail Dimitri 
4. Blackmail Madam Secretary 

Feel free to describe how each of these would be blackmailed.

[Stuffy]

During the start of that slow motion walk at the end, I thought Elizabeth was coming to tell her family something bad happened to Stevie. It seemed kinda ominous then as the speech when on I realized that wasn't it. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Stuffy

[buckboard]

What a wonderful compromise.  Women can go to school and vote, but not hold office.   Like they would allow women all other rights except holding office.  

And the champion of women, our Madam Secretary, agrees to this "compromise," which TAKES AWAY a right the women already have?  Sure, American women didn't have the right to vote when our country was founded, but they got it eventually.  150 years later!  So hang in there, women of Afghanistan.

[bros402]

uh oh Bess told him near the start he should take up racecar driving if he wants something to give him an adrenaline rush.

Are we gonna have Dr. Five Star General (Ret.) Future-Pope Henry "Arm Candy" McCord become a NASCAR champion?

Also, can the photos please be used as blackmail to somehow make him leave the spy industry and turn back into a religious scholar? Make him a champion Formula 1 & NASCAR driver. Ooh, and Monster Truck Master.

[NUguy514]

Yeah, who was this Elizabeth?  This taking-away-women's-rights-for-now-but-maybe-that'll-change-in-the-future-#fingerscrossed!! Elizabeth?  Because I hated her.

[mwell345]

I think I am done with this show.  Henry bores me, and I have absolutely no interest in Whats-His-Name and Stevie. 

[Netfoot]

4 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

This taking-away-women's-rights-for-now-but-maybe-that'll-change-in-the-future-#fingerscrossed!! Elizabeth?

The show must not offend anybody.  'Specially not that oh-so-reasonable group of political activists known as the Taliban!  So, let's talk about the Gender Pay Gap instead.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, bros402 said:

Also, can the photos please be used as blackmail to somehow make him leave the spy industry and turn back into a religious scholar?

Yes, please. </ spoken-politely>

And @buckboard, you might want to add a </ sarcasm> tag onto your post for the outside chance that the additional non-fictional testosterone hasn't deleted all of our history (including these posts) in a great ball of fiery apocalypse by 

5 hours ago, buckboard said:

150 years

from now. </ sort-of-sarcasm>

[Xantar]

It wasn't clear to me, but I think in this universe American troops are still in Afghanistan and were participating in the upcoming military operation. Women's rights are hugely important, but how many American lives are the public willing to put at risk for that goal in a war that has gone for 15 years with no end in sight? I don't like the choice that the fictional US made here, nor am I really sure it's the right one. But I understand it.

[betsyboo]

yes, by all means, dmitri (alexxander, whatever, fishcakes) - continue on this path of self-destruction. Stevie may not fully grasp the enormity of the cluster fuck the two of you dating has become, but surely you do, yes??? WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK. I KNOW he is hurting because his friend was killed. I KNOW he is looking to stay clean so will grasp at any straw he can. But dude, you're smarter than this. Do we think he was going to tell Stevie they had to break up? or they had to tell her father? or tell her that he works for the CIA?  good grief.  I absolutely thought Henry was going to show up at the apartment to tell him it was only the CIA checking up on him. 

I very much liked the NSAdvisor opposing Bess. I thought her argument was well-thought out. In fact, I almost thought that Bess was going to lose this fight. I also liked that she pushed back at Russell. They all seem to have a respectful working relationship. 

What's the deal with Daisy and grandma? This is clearly going to become a bigger thing, yes? Otherwise, why intro it?

I enjoyed Jay's "Oh, come on - Blake is still the boss."

I also wanted to know if that was Patina's real baby because I'm nosy like that. In any event, that baby was scrumdiddilyumptious!

[secnarf]

21 hours ago, Stuffy said:

During the start of that slow motion walk at the end, I thought Elizabeth was coming to tell her family something bad happened to Stevie. It seemed kinda ominous then as the speech when on I realized that wasn't it. 

I thought it seemed very ominous, but I was wondering if her Afghan Minister of Education friend was shot or something. Wasn't quite sure what they were going for when it became apparent that that was not the case.

2 hours ago, betsyboo said:

What's the deal with Daisy and grandma? This is clearly going to become a bigger thing, yes? Otherwise, why intro it?

...

I also wanted to know if that was Patina's real baby because I'm nosy like that. In any event, that baby was scrumdiddilyumptious!

 I was wondering if they were setting up a future custody battle with grandma as a cheap source of drama. And I too was wondering if that was Patina's real baby!

[Dowel Jones]

On 12/17/2017 at 9:17 PM, shapeshifter said:

 

So how exactly would the CIA use the Stemitri photos as blackmail?

And how exactly did the CIA director get a hold of the selfie picture that Dmitri took on his own cellphone?

22 hours ago, bros402 said:

uh oh Bess told him near the start he should take up racecar driving if he wants something to give him an adrenaline rush.

Another opportunity lost.  They should have had her say "You could take up downhill skiing."

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

And how exactly did the CIA director get a hold of the selfie picture that Dmitri took on his own cellphone?

Actually, kudos to the digital props folks for at least having the picture on Dimitri's phone different than the print the CIA dude was looking at after Professor of Religion Spy Daddy left the room. The phone pic had Stevie making kind of a duck face kiss, whereas the print had her smiling. But, yeah, the smiling pic looked like it came from the phone rather than from the camera of the CIA guys in the car. IDK. We could fanwank that the CIA hacked Dim's phone.

[bros402]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

And how exactly did the CIA director get a hold of the selfie picture that Dmitri took on his own cellphone?

Another opportunity lost.  They should have had her say "You could take up downhill skiing."

That would have been amazing

 

 

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Actually, kudos to the digital props folks for at least having the picture on Dimitri's phone different than the print the CIA dude was looking at after Professor of Religion Spy Daddy left the room. The phone pic had Stevie making kind of a duck face kiss, whereas the print had her smiling. But, yeah, the smiling pic looked like it came from the phone rather than from the camera of the CIA guys in the car. IDK. We could fanwank that the CIA hacked Dim's phone.

I wouldnt be surprised if they bugged his phone while he was in rehab and they have more layers to their keeping an eye on post rehab spies than "let's follow the trained agents and be obvious about it"

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, bros402 said:

I wouldnt be surprised if they bugged his phone while he was in rehab and they have more layers to their keeping an eye on post rehab spies than "let's follow the trained agents and be obvious about it"

Like leaks damaging to Bess should she decide to run for prez?

ETA: Dimitri may not be a US citizen, but "Alexi" probably is, right? So the CIA can't spy on Alexi. Right? And it was Alexander who was canoodling with Stevie —just ask her. Or…?

Edited December 19, 2017 by shapeshifter

[betsyboo]

42 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Like leaks damaging to Bess should she decide to run for prez?

ETA: Dimitri may not be a US citizen, but "Alexi" probably is, right? So the CIA can't spy on Alexi. Right? And it was Alexander who was canoodling with Stevie —just ask her. Or…?

But because he works for the CIA, i'm guessing that whole "No domestic surveillance... etc." is moot. 

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, betsyboo said:

i'm guessing that whole "No domestic surveillance... etc." is moot. 

It's balderdash anyway.  

The ECHELON system (for example) is a joint US/UK/AUS/NZ/Canadian system for monitoring electronic communications.  To get around the "No Domestic..." regulations is simple.  The Brits and Aussies, etc, spy on the Yanks, the Yanks and the Aussies, etc, spy on the Limeys, the Yanks and the Brits, etc, spy on the Aussies....  Then they hand over any interesting intercepts so that each agency can say they didn't spy on their own citizens, but received the info from a foreign agency.

[Guest]

If Dmitri really cared for Stevie, he would have told her something or moved to protect her.  

I hated this episode overall.

[betsyboo]

ooooooooooooh @deaja a move from Peggy to Lorelai... hmmmmmmmmmm. What does this portend?!?! :-)

[SW Sam]

9 hours ago, deaja said:

If Dmitri really cared for Stevie, he would have told her something or moved to protect her.  

I hated this episode overall.

I think he tried to before Stevie’s speech. 

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, deaja said:

If Dmitri really cared for Stevie, he would have told her something or moved to protect her.  

I've been saying the same thing since this whole Stemitri thing started. But. I will give the writers credit for coming up with believeable (albeit annoyingly frustrating) dialogue to put off Dmitri's putting an end to Stemitri (Stalexi?) yet one more episode:

Quote

[Alexi/Dimitri] Can, um can-can we sit down for a minute? Can I talk to you?

[Stevie] Yeah. I was actually about to say the same thing.

[Alexi/Dimitri] Why don't you go first?

[Stevie] Okay. Um All right. I don't think I realized, um how bad I was feeling about myself after the breakup with Jareth. But with you, I, um I feel like myself again. So whatever this is or isn't, or-or will be, I just wanted I just wanted to thank you. Okay. Your turn.

[Alexi/Dimitri] It can wait 

[bros402]

18 hours ago, betsyboo said:

But because he works for the CIA, i'm guessing that whole "No domestic surveillance... etc." is moot. 

They probably ask the NSA to do it.

[RemoteControlFreak]

On 12/18/2017 at 1:04 AM, Stuffy said:

During the start of that slow motion walk at the end, I thought Elizabeth was coming to tell her family something bad happened to Stevie. It seemed kinda ominous then as the speech when on I realized that wasn't it. 

I thought the same thing. It's such a common device ... happy people going about some lives only to have a slow-motion bearer of bad news appear with musical overlay.  If this is not happening next week (or whenever the show returns), it doesn't really make sense. Was all of this just to reinforce the idea of how good women in America have it compared to women in other countries? I don't understand.

[CheshireCat]

On ‎18‎.‎12‎.‎2017 at 9:43 AM, Xantar said:

It wasn't clear to me, but I think in this universe American troops are still in Afghanistan and were participating in the upcoming military operation. Women's rights are hugely important, but how many American lives are the public willing to put at risk for that goal in a war that has gone for 15 years with no end in sight? I don't like the choice that the fictional US made here, nor am I really sure it's the right one. But I understand it.

I just rewatched the episode and I don't think there were any "right" choices here. One choice was to continue the war and launch an immediate military operation that would have caused casualties for every party involved and that would have kept the war going with no end in sight. The other was to strike a compromise that takes away a woman's right to hold office. I wouldn't have wanted to be in a position to choose because both options sucked. However, the option that they chose was what the majority of the country wanted. The citizens may not be happy with it in the end but then the US will have done everything they can to establish a democracy and they will have given them the tools to change things. War wasn't the answer, so maybe leaving things up to them will be. I think the episode showed that they/Bess have at least learned from the Iran-deal: this time, she did listen to what the majority of the concerned party wanted.

I have a love-hate relationship with these kind of episodes. They always feel very real because probably more often than not, this is the decisions politicians are faced with. But they're still kind of depressing.