S07.E03: TOO SHADY

[lezlers]

I don't think anyone is arguing Maci was smart to drink while pregnant or actually didn't know, despite her protestations to the contrary.  I think she was in deep deep denial of her obvious third pregnancy because it was such a stupid thing to do that she didn't want to admit to, but that's no excuse.   My argument was simply that I don't feel she's put Bentley in danger with respect to Ryan's addiction.  People keep coming back and arguing various things she's done over the entire time she's been on the show in response to that statement.   I don't disagree with any of it.  Doesn't change the fact, however, that Maci hasn't done anything (in my opinion anyway) to endanger Bentley with respect to Ryan's addiction.  

[ghoulina]

5 hours ago, lezlers said:

I don't think anyone is arguing Maci was smart to drink while pregnant or actually didn't know, despite her protestations to the contrary.  I think she was in deep deep denial of her obvious third pregnancy because it was such a stupid thing to do that she didn't want to admit to, but that's no excuse.   My argument was simply that I don't feel she's put Bentley in danger with respect to Ryan's addiction.  People keep coming back and arguing various things she's done over the entire time she's been on the show in response to that statement.   I don't disagree with any of it.  Doesn't change the fact, however, that Maci hasn't done anything (in my opinion anyway) to endanger Bentley with respect to Ryan's addiction.  

I agree. We can take issue with her glaring faults, but still find positives with other things she does. 

Maci's heavy drinking while pregnant was unacceptable. It's a good thing  that Jade doesn't seem to show any damage (I believe it was her second, not third pregnancy). I found it ludicrous that she claimed not to know she was pregnant. She knew. She knew. We all knew. I think she didn't WANT people to know, until she had that ring. So she tried to carry on as usual, and it took it too far. I don't think it was about not caring about the baby, but just caring too much about appearances. Really really sad. 

But, while I'll never forget it, the kid is fine and I'm ready to move on from it and discuss the matters at hand. 

I think the issue is many feel Maci is a hypocrite for putting Jade at risk like that, and then calling Ryan out and keeping Bentley from him. And I can see that. But no one else in Ryan's life is going to be honest enough to make things safe for Bentley, so if hypocritical Maci has to step up and be the one - so be it.

[Tatum]

7 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I agree. We can take issue with her glaring faults, but still find positives with other things she does. 

Maci's heavy drinking while pregnant was unacceptable. It's a good thing  that Jade doesn't seem to show any damage (I believe it was her second, not third pregnancy). I found it ludicrous that she claimed not to know she was pregnant. She knew. She knew. We all knew. I think she didn't WANT people to know, until she had that ring. So she tried to carry on as usual, and it took it too far. I don't think it was about not caring about the baby, but just caring too much about appearances. Really really sad. 

But, while I'll never forget it, the kid is fine and I'm ready to move on from it and discuss the matters at hand. 

I think the issue is many feel Maci is a hypocrite for putting Jade at risk like that, and then calling Ryan out and keeping Bentley from him. And I can see that. But no one else in Ryan's life is going to be honest enough to make things safe for Bentley, so if hypocritical Maci has to step up and be the one - so be it.

It actually was Maverick. With Jayde, Maci claimed she was a miracle baby due to the fact that her gyno had supposedly told her she would never get pregnant again due to PCOS. She was called out for that as well. Her lying about being infertile had less to do with any public drinking and more to do with the fact that Maci had been trawling college campuses talking about the importance of birth control when she currently had a clearly unplanned pregnancy (she was not visibly pregnant but anyone doing math would have realized this).

 

But the drinking all occurred (publicly) with Maverick. The incident that got a lot of people talking was over a Teen Mom reunion show that ended up with a pretty wild after party, in Dec 2015. Maverick was born in either May or June 2016.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Tatum

[ghoulina]

Dang, shows how bad my memory is. But you're right. She didn't get the ring until the third kid. 

[Tatum]

Easy to mix up, since she told ridiculous lies both times :).

 

The ladies on this board that have had experiences with PCOS did not appreciate Maci spreading false information about it to cover up her own irresponsible behavior.

[ghoulina]

It is very annoying how several of these women have claimed they have reproductive challenges and were quite shocked to be pregnant again. Bull fucking shit. I don't have PCOS, but I had "unexplained infertility" when trying to conceive my first. It took us 1.5 years of active trying. There were days when I just didn't think it would ever happen. It is quite frustrating to see these girls being so cavalier, and dishonest, about having kids. 

[guilfoyleatpp]

11 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

It is very annoying how several of these women have claimed they have reproductive challenges and were quite shocked to be pregnant again. Bull fucking shit. I don't have PCOS, but I had "unexplained infertility" when trying to conceive my first. It took us 1.5 years of active trying. There were days when I just didn't think it would ever happen. It is quite frustrating to see these girls being so cavalier, and dishonest, about having kids. 

hugs, ghoulina. 

Agree. I am totally a proponent for those of us who wait (40 here!), but even *I* know that most women are most fertile in their mid-20s. And they're on a show ostensibly about TEEN PREGNANCY. They have no excuses to act so fucking dumb and careless about their fertility. And look at Cate - doesn't want to get pregnant so actively preventing it!

Remember that one reunion where Maci was visibly pregnant and they talked about the BC they were on? The willful idiocy is rage-making!

[GreatKazu]

11 hours ago, Calm81 said:

You’re turning into one of those PTV posters that I actively look forward to reading from. Along with @GreatKazu , @SPLAIN @ghoulina And @mamadrama. 

Keep up the good and insiteful work ?

I feel like I just gave nominations for a PTV award show for best posters. If I left out anyone, there’s always next season as I can’t remember everyone until coffee is finished.

So sweet. I look forward to your posts as well. :-) 

[TheRealT]

On 12/18/2017 at 3:40 PM, Tatum said:

Her lying about being infertile had less to do with any public drinking and more to do with the fact that Maci had been trawling college campuses talking about the importance of birth control when she currently had a clearly unplanned pregnancy (she was not visibly pregnant but anyone doing math would have realized this).

She was actually getting paid to make speeches to college students about abstinence, not birth control, which became increasingly ridiculous as she continued to conceive children out of wedlock (like her friend Bristol Palin, whom she met on the "chicks who have premarital sex all the time, but make money preaching abstinence" circuit).

[Tatum]

6 hours ago, TheRealT said:

She was actually getting paid to make speeches to college students about abstinence, not birth control, which became increasingly ridiculous as she continued to conceive children out of wedlock (like her friend Bristol Palin, whom she met on the "chicks who have premarital sex all the time, but make money preaching abstinence" circuit).

That kind of pisses me off, actually. It's one thing if Maci wants to be the poster child for bad decisions, and say, don't be like me, use a condom and finish your education before you have kids.

 

But for 22 year old (at the time) Maci, who hadn't finished school, who didn't work a regular job, to be lecturing students who were either her age or just a few years younger, a lot of whom probably worked damn hard at school (and part time jobs to pay for school), who had to live within a modest budget, and were far more responsible and disciplined than Maci, on the importance of abstinence? Bitch, sit down. Those kids likely could've told you a thing or two about responsibility.

 

Even without the hypocrisy of Maci's two unplanned pregnancies, and her living in sin with a boyfriend (I don't consider living with someone when you're not married to be a moral failing, but someone lecturing legal adults on abstinence probably should), that comes across as incredibly obnoxious.

[FozzyBear]

On 12/5/2017 at 8:51 PM, Chicosan said:

I know everyone says Maci still has the hots for Ryan but I just don't see it. ???  I try to watch her Ryan scenes through the lens that she still pines for him but I don't see any change in her emotions. She has the same apathetic and robotic responses to just about everything. What am I missing?? 

Also need to say that Ryan and his father are POS's. Ryan is on his high horse (pun intended) about being in what was probably court ordered rehab vs jail and he's all proud about it. As Chris Rock would say, "people wanting all kinds of props and accolades for doing the right thing....you're SUPPOSED to stay off drugs and take care of your kids"  Watching his nervous movements and increased anxiety when he got home, I have no doubt he's already planning how he can lie, cheat and steal his way to his next high.  No way in hell that asshole stays off drugs, I give him 3.....2.....1.......

I’ve never seen Maci being super into Ryan. Not past 16 & Pregnant or maybe the first season of TM maybe. Now I do think Maci is totally the type that wants Ryan to be in love with her and gets off on the power dynamic of him trying to win her over, but I think she more or less got over Ryan when he proved to have very little interest in Bentley when he was a baby.

And Ryan is just ridiculous. He is what? 30? And still can’t takepersonal responsibility for his life? He’s always going to find some woman to deal with the hard stuff for him. I can’t abide that type. Maci is awful, but I totally understand why she thinks Ryan is worthless.

[DangerousMinds]

Ryan does seem useless, but addiction is a disease, not a moral failing.

[GreatKazu]

3 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

I’ve never seen Maci being super into Ryan. Not past 16 & Pregnant or maybe the first season of TM maybe. Now I do think Maci is totally the type that wants Ryan to be in love with her and gets off on the power dynamic of him trying to win her over, but I think she more or less got over Ryan when he proved to have very little interest in Bentley when he was a baby.

And Ryan is just ridiculous. He is what? 30? And still can’t takepersonal responsibility for his life? He’s always going to find some woman to deal with the hard stuff for him. I can’t abide that type. Maci is awful, but I totally understand why she thinks Ryan is worthless.

Maci and Ryan hooked up back in 2013 and for some time in 2014. 

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 6:29 AM, Tatum said:

That kind of pisses me off, actually. It's one thing if Maci wants to be the poster child for bad decisions, and say, don't be like me, use a condom and finish your education before you have kids.

 

But for 22 year old (at the time) Maci, who hadn't finished school, who didn't work a regular job, to be lecturing students who were either her age or just a few years younger, a lot of whom probably worked damn hard at school (and part time jobs to pay for school), who had to live within a modest budget, and were far more responsible and disciplined than Maci, on the importance of abstinence? Bitch, sit down. Those kids likely could've told you a thing or two about responsibility.

 

Even without the hypocrisy of Maci's two unplanned pregnancies, and her living in sin with a boyfriend (I don't consider living with someone when you're not married to be a moral failing, but someone lecturing legal adults on abstinence probably should), that comes across as incredibly obnoxious.

Agree. Maci was also telling Ryan constantly (during the Kyle years) to get a job. This from the girl who didn't have a job herself and who was floundering her college classes, giving excuses for why she needed to drop school and all that cheap talk to cover up for the fact she just wasn't wanting to be in school. I remember when she didn't go to school one day because she had to tend to her garage sale. 

[FozzyBear]

On 12/4/2017 at 9:47 PM, usernameG said:

Ryan complaining about not seeing Bentley and how he feels bad for him because of all the things they make him do... He thinks they should just let him be a kid. When he said "I couldn't imagine if you and Dad did that to me"....Dear Jesus... Its called making him a responsible adult asshole. If Jen and Larry didnt spoil and enable the shit out of you, maybe you wouldn't have just gotten out of rehab.

I could totally imagine if Jen and Larry did that to Ryan. He might have grown up to be a responsible person capable of caring about the feelings of others. The horror.

[FozzyBear]

On 12/4/2017 at 9:47 PM, usernameG said:

 

On 12/4/2017 at 9:47 PM, usernameG said:

Edited December 31, 2017 by FozzyBear
Double post

[Rebecca]

On 12/5/2017 at 11:43 PM, Bridget said:

I think the copy of the front page newspaper article about the day she died (hung on the wall next to the front door) is super creepy too!

That’s super creepy, why the hell would any fan even want that?!

On 12/6/2017 at 9:34 AM, Kb60 said:

I have the solution to the Bentley visitation problem: Drug test Ryan and breathalyze Maci. Too bad there's no test for texting while driving.

Better breathalyze Larry too. 

On 12/6/2017 at 1:45 PM, Isthisok said:

I was sexually aroused by the look on Matt’s face when he was thrown out. 

Sexual arousal and Matt’s face don’t go together, no matter the circumstance !

On 12/7/2017 at 7:36 AM, cheewhiz said:

That “real estate agent” was the thirstiest person I have ever seen on tv

On a show with Mackenzie this is really saying something!

On 12/10/2017 at 1:26 AM, GreatKazu said:

Ryan married a younger version of Jen. 

...who looks older than Jen.

On 12/14/2017 at 4:19 PM, lezlers said:

Oh, I agree with you that Ryan doesn't want to get back with Maci and I especially agree that he doesn't want to be in a relationship with ANYONE, including Mac.  Mac is a grifter and opportunist who took advantage of an addict who wasn't clear headed.   I really loathe her.   Ryan is nothing but a manchild with a suitcase full of baggage and some serious emotional problems that he's been trying to cover up with his addiction.  I've got a sneaking suspicion the lions share of those issues are from Larry.   I have a feeling that behind closed doors Larry is a real asshole. 

Agreed. But I also think Jen is partly to blame because she’s just about the worst enabler I’ve ever seen or heard of.

13 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Ryan does seem useless, but addiction is a disease, not a moral failing.

Right but he was basically useless before his addiction, unless he’s been an addict since before Maci was pregnant with Bentley. I don’t think his addiction has much to do with his uselessness and nothing to do with the fact he’s also full of moral failings.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Rebecca

[GreatKazu]

Quote

I was sexually aroused by the look on Matt’s face when he was thrown out. 

Matt wasn't thrown out. He left after grabbing his money. That guy was already out the door long before Amber put on that pitiful act while declaring she doesn't like "pussies." Amber is a major loser. She was with that pussy for three years. 

Quote

Ryan complaining about not seeing Bentley and how he feels bad for him because of all the things they make him do... He thinks they should just let him be a kid. When he said "I couldn't imagine if you and Dad did that to me"....Dear Jesus... Its called making him a responsible adult asshole. If Jen and Larry didnt spoil and enable the shit out of you, maybe you wouldn't have just gotten out of rehab.

I have a suspicion Ryan was asked and made to do things growing up, but he refused many times or was lackluster about it. 

Larry said recently anytime they tried to talk to Ryan about his drug issue it would either turn into an argument or Ryan would walk out. I imagine that is the same shit he pulled whenever he was told to do chores or anything that entailed him to get off his ass. Over time, the Edwards just gave up and did it all for him. 

[TheRealT]

18 hours ago, Rebecca said:

Agreed. But I also think Jen is partly to blame because she’s just about the worst enabler I’ve ever seen or heard of.

Right but he was basically useless before his addiction, unless he’s been an addict since before Maci was pregnant with Bentley. I don’t think his addiction has much to do with his uselessness and nothing to do with the fact he’s also full of moral failings.

Ryan certainly sucks as a dad and just in general, but I feel like Maci is using his stint in rehab/admission of his addiction to punish him for his moral failings and his parents for daring to resist/talk shit about St. Maci without regard for how it affects Bentley, so, to me, she sucks too. It's totally legit for her to be alarmed upon finding out that Ryan has been doing heroin (assuming she didn't already know/suspect) and it's totally legit for her to want to establish some guidelines for Ryan's visitation with Bentley in light of that knowledge.

BUT, her primary concern should be Bentley's safety and well-being, not making sure that Ryan is appropriately exposed, punished, and made to kiss the ring of St. Maci in order to be granted the privilege of seeing his son. For one thing, it's not about Ryan, it's about Bentley. By Maci's own admission, Bentley was asking to see Ryan and we can pretty easily infer that Bentley cares about his dad and his paternal grandparents (though Ryan has been a shit dad) and that it was upsetting/confusing for Bentley to hear vague/incomplete reports that Ryan was sick (or something) and not see any of his paternal relatives for a while.

So when St. Maci deigned to take Bentley to see his dad and grandparents (because she's such a great mom and was so genuinely moved by Bentley's request to see his family), she should have done what she could to create a safe, pleasant, and emotionally supportive visit for Bentley. Instead, she came in guns blazing (basically) and took the first opportunity to declare Ryan insufficiently penitent or submissive and cancel the visit on that basis. Did she honestly feel that Bentley was in some kind of danger that warranted ending the visit after 5 minutes? No, not even by her own account. She ended the visit abruptly because she was pissed at how Ryan was/wasn't acting.

She claimed that she was set off by Ryan sending Bentley off to play shortly after their arrival, but she also said that she needed to talk to Ryan to find out what was going on, etc. So if Ryan had greeted Bentley and immediately taken him to do whatever one-on-one father-son activity, I'm sure she would have complained that he was out of line for not talking to her about whatever her concerns were. Since she was so eager to talk to Ryan, she could have taken Bentley's departure as an opportunity to clear the air/let everyone know what her new expectations or demands were/whatever, thus easing the tension that everyone was feeling and enabling Ryan, his parents, and Bentley to have a nice visit. She chose not to do that because she was pissed at Ryan, Jen, and Larry and she wanted to teach them a lesson about failing to bow down to her sufficiently. The hurt it caused/is causing Bentley doesn't matter as much to her. So she's a shitty person/parent too and she doesn't have the excuse of heroin addiction. Allegedly, she has her shit totally together and is living an awesome life with an awesome husband. Someone in that position should have the emotional and practical resources to be relatively generous/understanding with her son's family (most of whom have been very good to her as well as him) and work out a way for her son to stay connected to his family through difficult times.

And I'm really not defending Ryan as a dad because he sucks, but I don't think it's fair to say he doesn't give a shit about Bentley or only wants to see him to spite Maci. He's been more of a "big brother" to Bentley than a dad, but big brothers really do care about their little brothers. I don't think Bentley would be so attached to him if he truly didn't give a shit about Bentley. And I don't think there's any credible argument that Jen and Larry don't love Bentley and vice versa. They're not perfect either, but neither is St. Maci, and they've been cut out Bentley's life for no reason (other than perhaps not being sufficiently deferential to St. Maci. I don't believe for a second that Maci truly believes that if she told Jen and Larry that she only wanted Ryan to see Bentley under J&L's supervision that they would agree, then let Ryan drive off with Bentley in a smacked-out haze. I get that J&L are/have been huge enablers, etc., but there's no evidence that they ever left Bentley in a drugged-out Ryan's care (or even that Ryan would want to care for Bentley on his own while he's high. Prior to this, Maci's complaint was that he left Bentley with his parents too much while he was off getting high (she now knows).)

I just don't buy that Maci's refusal to let Ryan see Bentley is rooted in concern for Bentley. In the case of the aborted visit that was featured on the show, Maci herself was present to supervise. If Ryan was annoying her/being defiant/whatever (she doesn't even claim that she left because anything negative was happening to Bentley), she could have been the bigger person who she supposedly is and said, "Ok, Ryan, I can see that this conversation isn't going to a good place. Why don't you go hang with Bentley for a little bit? He's really missed you and he's been asking about you. I can stay for another half hour or so and I'd like to set up a time to talk more about your visits with him going forward. For now, I think it's good if you two just get to spend some time together." That's what someone so much more mature, above-it-all, bulletproof, etc. would do.