S05.E02: Tumbleweed Tiny Homes

[Thrifty]

The Profit is back!  And back to the standard episode of saving small businesses.

That deal.... I understand it from Marcus's perspective but man was that aggressive.  Not just the equity but the fact that it was a condition of a loan.

I don't get tiny houses.  Is it just because people want to save money?  One of the many drawbacks of prison is that you sleep in a chamber the size of a standard bathroom.  Now we have free people paying money to do the same thing.  Granted, tiny home buyers can leave.  This whole episode gave me claustrophobia.

I don't have high hopes for the future of this company.  I just don't see the owner's focus and resolve staying without Marcus and a film crew there.  Also, what is Tumbleweed Tiny Homes going to do when this tiny home fad ends?

[ae2]

The idea behind the tiny home fad is generally minimalism. So it didn't make sense to me when they talked about how spacious it was, how much storage space it had, all the creature features, and then they oohed over how big the bathroom was...

Then they showed their new base model, and the other homes at the park, and I realized it's not really a tiny home in the faddish sense, it's just a fancy camper trailer. At best it's a mobile cabin.

Interesting to see Marcus offer his investment as a loan. Maybe he's been hanging out with Kevin O'Leary. It was an aggressive offer, but I think with how closely this business ties in with Camping World, he can instantly give a huge boost to their sales.

[hoosiermommy]

From watching many episodes of Tiny House Nation, I think the real reason many people go tiny is virtue signaling.  about 95% of those episodes have people who want to maintain their lifestyle of hobbies that requires large amounts of storage ("I have a garage of essential outdoor equipment I couldn't possibly pair down" or "I am a home brewer and winemaker and this huge and cumbersome equipment must come with me!").  Or, they don't want to rattle around in a 4,000 square foot house anymore...or have a $5,000 mortgage any more...totally missing that there is a whole world of homes between where they are now and a 300 square foot tiny home.

In all the episodes I remember watching, there was only one that going tiny seemed to really made sense for.  One was a flight attendant who was tired of living out of a suit case at a crash pad when she was at her some base.

I have too many books (and too much claustrophobia) to make a tiny home practical for a main home, but I would totally rent one as a vacation get away (or buy one for a hunting/fishing cabin for my husband and son).

I think the idea of selling to a vacation estate, like they did, makes so much sense, and I hope that it really pans out for both parties.

[BusyOctober]

The vacation rental seems like a profitable idea while the Tiny House fad is hot. I personally don't get the attraction, but I'm married with kids and pets and 15 years of stuff (hat isn't excessive for a normal sized home).  Tiny living is not for us.  I can't see it happening when we're empty nesters either.  I like my personal space to relax or work on my hobbies, and so does my husband.  A little itty bitty dwelling would incite divorce proceedings vs. bring us closer!

As for the vacation rentals, the Tiny House village they showed was interesting, and I could see that being a fun short term get-away.  It would be even better if you could rent a unit, hook it up and take it to another authorized property/RV Park.  Then vacationers could move from a stationary village to the road. I've never rented a full size RV, so I don't know if there'd be a cost savings for a smaller mobile unit.  But I think it would be cool to hook up and go where a huge Winnebago may not fit: Park & live by Grand Canyon for a week!  Roll up to the foot of a volcano in Hawaii!  

I had a felling Austin would be made partner or at least get a promotion.  I knew that new guy Lee wasn't going to last.  He came off very "my way or the highway" and seemed to have what my grandmother called "Little Man Syndrome". 

[cooksdelight]

I’m glad Lee left. He came off as a shit-stirrer to me, and he wanted control of the company.

My husband and I considered building a small house (not on wheels) on some property my Dad has, as this is what he wants to do as well. But we bought a 2,400 sq ft house and that was a wise decision for us. I could never give away all the stuff I’ve saved from as far back as high school.

Tiny mobile houses are great for people who don’t necessarily want to stay in one place all the time. You can rent a spot, stay there during the warm months, move somewhere further south in winter, etc. I was as taken aback as Marcus was at that one closet for a trash can. No shelves? Watching various tiny house shows, they really needed to improve their base model and it looks like they did that. I hope they stay strong, make money, as this was a likeable bunch of people. Except Lee, couldn’t stand his snotty ass.

[Amarsir]

IMHO, Marcus seemed to be playing a little too much CYA in this one. First, the loan structure as noted. Then he makes a big deal about saying there are too many layers, and says he wants them to handle it. But when Austin quit and when Lee quit Marcus made a show both times of saying "Well I can't believe he did that".

It was obvious from the beginning that Lee's position would be the one to go, since he was doing what the owner should do himself and had no seniority. The camera certainly zoomed in on him every time it came up. But I feel bad for him. He seemed competent and had the authority he needed to run the place, and only having been there a few weeks it's not like any of this was his fault. I think the show deliberately picked clips and juxtaposed them with talking heads in order to make him look bad ("burn it to the ground") but you could see in Marcus's reactions to their conversations that he was no idiot.

[seacliffsal]

I was surprised that Marcus was interested in tiny houses as I have recently been reading several articles that are analyzing the decline in the movement as evidenced by multiple tiny houses being put up for resale without much movement.  Now, the vacation estate market may have been Marcus' true goal, but I don't see the profit potential in this deal.

[cooksdelight]

There’s a place here that makes tiny homes, and I’m not seeing too many of them moving. Traditional mobile homes are cheaper, bigger, and have more amenities.

[attica]

15 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

 Now, the vacation estate market may have been Marcus' true goal, but I don't see the profit potential in this deal.

Eh, I think it's a good fold-in to his RV business. Rounds out the selection, as it were. Captures the hipster demo that would eschew a traditional mobile home/RV. I agree it's probably not going to be an exploding market, but the skinny-jean crowd will need something.

[PBSLover]

I believe Lee had the big company mentality that didn’t really work in this particular company.  The guy who quit was too important to the company, in Marcus’ opinion, and he wanted him back.  Lee’s thinking was corporate thinking, 'He quits his job so that means no company loyalty which means he shouldn’t be here to begin with.’ But big corporate logic doesn’t always apply to small family run firms.  It’s looser in structure and each person counts. They are a name not a number.  

Lee was smart to resign.  He needs to be back in a suit in a corporation.

[qtpye]

On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 9:28 PM, cooksdelight said:

There’s a place here that makes tiny homes, and I’m not seeing too many of them moving. Traditional mobile homes are cheaper, bigger, and have more amenities.

 

On Friday, December 01, 2017 at 10:21 AM, attica said:

Eh, I think it's a good fold-in to his RV business. Rounds out the selection, as it were. Captures the hipster demo that would eschew a traditional mobile home/RV. I agree it's probably not going to be an exploding market, but the skinny-jean crowd will need something.

I have watched more tiny home shows then I care to admit and it feels like a trend doomed to die.  The reason hipsters who need mobility live in these homes instead of a more practcal and more affordable trailer is that the latter is associated with being poor and the former is considered cool.  Many tiny homes do not meet standard zoning requirements and can be illegal in some cities.  I remember one tiny home builder whose clients could only live in his warehouse, because the homes did not pass the proper inspections for housing.

For people who do not need the mobility there is usually a good stock of post war homes available in most cities.  This homes are not as extreme as tiny homes, but are of a modest size compares to modern standards.

The vacation spot could work, but I do not have much faith in the CEO.  He serms like someone who wants to skateby doing as little as possible.

[sarthaz]

It's fun to see how Marcus has trained me in his business philosophy.  Before the first commercial break, I knew:

1) The COO has to go

2) The business needs to restructure to quickly produce from a small set of standardized units

These things write themselves now.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 12/6/2017 at 10:09 AM, qtpye said:

The reason hipsters who need mobility live in these homes instead of a more practcal and more affordable trailer is that the latter is associated with being poor and the former is considered cool.  Many tiny homes do not meet standard zoning requirements and can be illegal in some cities.  I remember one tiny home builder whose clients could only live in his warehouse, because the homes did not pass the proper inspections for housing.

One of the selling points of a Tumbleweed tiny home is that it's RVIA certified, and some RV parks don't allow trailers or motorhomes that aren't (like home-built tiny houses or bus conversions).  Now, why someone with a hip tiny house would want to live squeezed in among regular trailers and RVs is beyond me. 

 

On 11/29/2017 at 8:43 AM, BusyOctober said:

As for the vacation rentals, the Tiny House village they showed was interesting, and I could see that being a fun short term get-away.  It would be even better if you could rent a unit, hook it up and take it to another authorized property/RV Park.  Then vacationers could move from a stationary village to the road. I've never rented a full size RV, so I don't know if there'd be a cost savings for a smaller mobile unit.  But I think it would be cool to hook up and go where a huge Winnebago may not fit: Park & live by Grand Canyon for a week!  Roll up to the foot of a volcano in Hawaii!  

You can rent all sizes of motorized RVs.  If you go to Banff/Lake Louise, every other RV is a small Canadream motorized unit.

I think a problem with renting trailers out is that you need a certain sized vehicle to pull them, not to mention skills in maneuvering a trailer.  And honestly, the design features of tiny houses don't lend themselves to being moved a lot.  Open shelves?  Ha ha ha ha ha.  Not to mention their height.  Tiny houses tend to be as tall as possible, building up instead of out, with the loft.  An RV trailer of a similar length won't be anywhere near that tall, and campgrounds that won't hold giant RVs will often have limited vertical clearance due to trees and whatnot, so a small trailer could get in but maybe not a tiny house.

 

What I found silly about the episode was that the problem Tumbleweed was having was too much customization, and when they decided to do a standardized unit, they went to Camping World and asked RVers for suggestions.  Okay, I get product placement, but wasn't each customization request a "suggestion" they could use, and one that someone actually wanted instead of just threw out there?  And the demographics of Camping World shoppers and tiny house buyers couldn't be more different.  But yeah, product placement. 

Oh, and the owner's constant smile, whether happy or sad or angry or uncomfortable, would have made it impossible for me to work with him.   And I can't say I really like Marcus, but he kind of won me over when he mentioned trying to get his "fat ass" up into that loft. 

And I'll just say I was surprised that the business was such a mess, because I always thought Tumbleweed was one of the big dogs. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by StatisticalOutlier
word choice: I said I considered Tumbleweed to be one of the big dogs, but that makes it sound like I'm some sort of arbiter of such things, which I'm definitely not.

[seacliffsal]

Just watched the "look back" at Tumbleweed.  Enjoyed the guest (he hosts Tiny House Nation or some such show).  However, between this "look back" and the recent van life episode, it really seems like Marcus is trying to go after the alternates to RV/Campers.  He's trying to bring in RV/ Campers production processes and standardizations while appealing to a different set of buyers.  I know that Tiny Homes was a really trendy movement but am unsure if it still is due to the myriad of issues as pointed out by StatisticalOutlier above.

It was interesting when Marcus talked about how many of his deals turn out to be clunker, and that the single biggest factor in success or failure is the character of the person with whom he is working.  Character matters.

Edited March 25, 2020 by seacliffsal
Tumblewood, tumbleweed, tumblewhatever...

[Showthyme]

It is difficult enough to find a place to park an RV. RV parks are full and pricey. It must be nearly impossible to find a place to park a tiny house with hookups, etc. They are crazy expensive too.

Have to agree that all of the wood is too log cabin for me. I need something with color and character. 

Too nice people in business are difficult. They never say what they mean and will stab you in the back. Tumblewood CEO is no longer taking calls from Marcus. What a coward. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Showthyme
Spelling cuz enjoying a margarita while typing.