S05.E08: Ian Garvey

[saber5055]

OMG, you guys are killing it with the proposed endings to this show. Any one of the above is better than what the writers are going to give us, based on the dreck they've written in the past. I especially like the latent Ressler/Red partnership. That cracked me up. And the bones being the real Red, although that one could be true. I also like Paigow's time-travel theory because nothing beats a good travel through time.

[Texasmom1970]

Four words

Tom' dead ... I'm out

[millahnna]

9 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And then Red ascends to a higher plane of existence   (Whoops!  Wrong franchise. Red isn't a Jedi)

 

Are you certain of that last bit because I'm not.

11 hours ago, Pandorajuly said:

This will be Blacklist last season..Liz & Ressler fall in love & raise Agnes..Liz might become pregnant again by Ressler..

There was a point in season 1 (I think when it first came out that Tom was lying to Liz) where I honestly thought they were going in that direction so this wouldn't surprise me.  They had some nice chemistry together at a time when I wasn't seeing the Liz/Tom connection (which I weirdly came around to, eventually). 

[Lyanna19]

Tom's dead, yay! I never did like or trust him.Now let's get Elizabeth and Ressler  together for a happily ever after, I've been wanting that since season one! 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 11/16/2017 at 2:50 PM, ally said:

  Even more interesting, if Ian wouldn't have been so happy with having the bones and killing Tom his only link left and his wife, the witness, researching the "little pissant" would have revealed that the wife was the direct link to Reddington.  All Ian had to do was use Liz and Red would have come running quicker than a New York minute giving him the access he wanted.  I think in the end the idiot Tom realized this and chose not to say anything in his last few breaths, focusing more importantly on what he should have in the first place, his families safety

All Ian had to do would be to start torturing Liz and Tom would have called Red immediately.  It made no sense for him not to do so.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 11/16/2017 at 5:43 PM, NeenerNeener said:

2. The bones are the real Raymond Reddington. I can't remember if "Red" is supposed to be an undercover alias or not.

 

Anybody got any other theories? Seeing how long it took the writers to admit that Red is Liz's father I don't have much hope that we will find out the DNA results by the end of this season.

The bones are those of the real Reddington.

The writers did not admit that Red is Liz's father. Cooper tested 30-year-old DNA belonging to the real Reddington, who was her father. Cooper told Liz, who accepted it as fact. When she told Red, he couldn't deny it without telling her he had replaced her father, so he let her think it was true. When Red said to Kirk "What do you want me to say? That I'm her father? Ok!", or words to that effect, that's exactly what he was saying; what Kirk wanted him to say.

Dembe thinks that Liz would be better off knowing the truth, which I doubt he would say if Red had murdered her mother (and those were her bones), which I don't think he would have done, anyway.  Also, the bones belong to someone who is in the federal database, which would include the real Reddington, but probably not a Russian spy.

Edited November 20, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 11/17/2017 at 11:21 AM, preeya said:

My two cents:

It's a Sophie's Choice situation. Lizzie had a twin brother or sister who's bones are in the suitcase. I won't speculate on why

I think if they were a child's bones, Tom, Nik and the guy who was examining them for Tom would have noticed immediately.

Where did Tom get the 20+ guns he swapped for the bones?

Edited November 19, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Gothish520]

We have not seen the last of Tom. I don't believe a word anyone connected to the show says.

[Drusilla]

3 hours ago, Lyanna19 said:

Tom's dead, yay! I never did like or trust him.Now let's get Elizabeth and Ressler  together for a happily ever after, I've been wanting that since season one! 

No. Just No. It's not a freaking soap opera who can Liz have a relationship with now show!

[ottoDbusdriver]

5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Where did Tom get the 20+ guns he swapped for the bones?

That's a better question -- where did all the guns come from ?  And when did he have the opportunity to swap them out with Red not noticing ? Because they kind of glossed over that.

[Drusilla]

5 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

We have not seen the last of Tom. I don't believe a word anyone connected to the show says.

Well we've seen the last of Ryan Eggold in that show.

[Lyanna19]

4 hours ago, Drusilla said:

No. Just No. It's not a freaking soap opera who can Liz have a relationship with now show!

I'm sorry to be the one to give you the birds and the bees talk, but it IS a freaking soap opera! I hate being so shallow, to wish Elizabeth and Ressler together, but quite frankly I'm surprised they haven't joined up before. 

Oh I guess I'm thinking Shonda Rhimes and her shows, 

Oh well he's dead, Elizabeth has been a widow for ten months now, let's give her a life, and tell Ressler to grow up and Reddington too while we're at it, so she can finally have her happily ever after.

[Drusilla]

2 minutes ago, Lyanna19 said:

I'm sorry to be the one to give you the birds and the bees talk, but it IS a freaking soap opera! I hate being so shallow, to wish Elizabeth and Ressler together, but quite frankly I'm surprised they haven't joined up before. 

Oh I guess I'm thinking Shonda Rhimes and her shows, 

Oh well he's dead, Elizabeth has been a widow for ten months now, let's give her a life, and tell Ressler to grow up and Reddington too while we're at it, so she can finally have her happily ever after.

You don't have to give me any kind of talk, I've been on this show forum for quite a while now and am well aware of what TBL is and isn't.  But thanks anyway, for letting me know.

[Lyanna19]

10 minutes ago, Drusilla said:

You don't have to give me any kind of talk, I've been on this show forum for quite a while now and am well aware of what TBL is and isn't.  But thanks anyway, for letting me know.

Sorry for being sarcastic, as I said I hate that I'm so shallow, but I never did like Tom, and I never did trust his so called turn around.... So I can't pretend that I'm sad to see him go.

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, Drusilla said:

Well we've seen the last of Ryan Eggold in that show.

I don't believe it. Lots of time left to the season. 

[Just my 2 cents]

10 hours ago, Lyanna19 said:

10 hours ago, Drusilla said:

You don't have to give me any kind of talk, I've been on this show forum for quite a while now and am well aware of what TBL is and isn't.  But thanks anyway, for letting me know.

Sorry for being sarcastic, as I said I hate that I'm so shallow, but I never did like Tom, and I never did trust his so called turn around.... So I can't pretend that I'm sad to see him go.

Yeah, I notice that every television show has become a soap opera with all the shipping.  No, worries to you two.  You haven't seen ugly, snarky, or sarcastic until you've looked at some of the tweets, forums, and blogs of Hawaii Five-0.  I don't know how a cheesy action cop show could have so much damn shipping conflict.  It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. 

I never cared for the way Tom and Liz got together either time.  The second time they got together when they hooked up at the end of season 2 was when she was at one of her lowest points and made her look like she had low self-esteem and self-confidence.  She came across as pathetic.  It could have been written better where he momentarily went off and discovered who he wanted to be and she rebuilt her life.  It was crazy that he seemed to always be playing a character.  He never truly found himself.  Don't get me wrong I do believe much like her, he wanted the house, car, dog and 2 kids, but he also wanted excitement.  He needed to truly find out who he was since he spent most of his life playing other people.  I think in the end he found it and chose to protect his family, but died doing so.

As for Liz and Ressler, I'm not sure where it will lead to, but they will at least bond over losing their spouses.  It would be nice to see Liz find herself and be the strong person her mother was supposed to be.  Maybe then she could move on to Ressler or someone that hasn't come on screen yet.

9 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

10 hours ago, Drusilla said:

Well we've seen the last of Ryan Eggold in that show.

I don't believe it. Lots of time left to the season. 

As of right now he's in demand and he's already made his own film.  I think we've seen the last of Ryan Eggold.  They might bring on someone else to play Tom Keen, but I think Ryan is one and done.  He's hot right now and he needs to act on it while he has a chance.  Fame and demand in Hollywood fades quickly.

Edited November 20, 2017 by ally

[Gothish520]

On 11/16/2017 at 7:27 PM, saber5055 said:

And is anyone else greatly irritated by Spader's constant chewing, like he has some piece of chicken gristle stuck in his gums that he is always chewing on? SO IRRITATING! It's a habit he needs to break, along with his propensity for soliloquies.

Nope, I love Spader and his tics and Red's soliloquies. Red is a very unique character and Spader plays him brilliantly - can't understand why he's never been nominated for an Emmy in this role.

[saber5055]

I'm in the Tom's Dead Camp given that Lizzie was so over the moon IN LURVE with him (after all these years and multiple times each have tried to kill the other, or at least have beaten each other up. Talk about a co-dependent and abusive relationship.) that they had to get married NOW! in a civil ceremony. Like that piece of paper made any difference. Agnes didn't even get to be there, Lizzie was so hot for married sex. That's the set up for Lizzie being all verklempt about The Love Of Her Life being murdered, how can she possibly live without him. (Answer: The same way she lives w/o her daughter or the multiple dogs.) I predict the end of the season is Lizzie, with her full head of hair, getting revenge (with Red, her pseudo daddy) on Tom's killers. As for Ressler, he deserves SO MUCH BETTER than Lizzie. I'd rather he hook up with Dembe. Or just transfer out of that stupid team. BTW, what ever happened to Ressler's blackmailing cleaner?

The thing about Red's constant gristle chewing is that Spader does the same thing when he's on a talk show. GAH! I hate it. Charming at the beginning, wanting to choke you by the neck after four years of it.

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

I'm in the Tom's Dead Camp given that Lizzie was so over the moon IN LURVE with him (after all these years and multiple times each have tried to kill the other, or at least have beaten each other up. Talk about a co-dependent and abusive relationship.) that they had to get married NOW! in a civil ceremony. Like that piece of paper made any difference. Agnes didn't even get to be there, Lizzie was so hot for married sex. That's the set up for Lizzie being all verklempt about The Love Of Her Life being murdered, how can she possibly live without him. (Answer: The same way she lives w/o her daughter or the multiple dogs.) I predict the end of the season is Lizzie, with her full head of hair, getting revenge (with Red, her pseudo daddy) on Tom's killers. As for Ressler, he deserves SO MUCH BETTER than Lizzie. I'd rather he hook up with Dembe. Or just transfer out of that stupid team. BTW, what ever happened to Ressler's blackmailing cleaner?

The thing about Red's constant gristle chewing is that Spader does the same thing when he's on a talk show. GAH! I hate it. Charming at the beginning, wanting to choke you by the neck after four years of it.

1. I don't understand why people let stuff like this bother them. You don't see these characters 24/7. It's assumed they feed the dogs, maybe take them for a walk (or pay someone), pass the kid off to a babysitter and then go on with their day. Who wants to see them feeding the dogs and cootchie-cooing their baby every other episode?

2. I lost any feeling for Ressler after he turned to the darkside re: Laurel Hitchen. He's just as morally bankrupt as the rest.

3. It's a tic and I think it's a bit insensitive to make fun of him for it.

[Lyanna19]

17 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

 

2. I lost any feeling for Ressler after he turned to the darkside re: Laurel Hitchen. He's just as morally bankrupt as the rest

Ok for myself, I just can't see how he was so stupid to be caught like that, it just boggles my mind, IMHO I think it's just poor writing on the writers part.

 

19 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

 

3. It's a tic and I think it's a bit insensitive to make fun of him for it.

Agreed! It's not like he does it intentionally

[MostlyC]

Hey folks,

A general note here:  Tom's death (as far as we know) and the show itself can be polarizing.

Our number one rule  here at PTV is to Be Civil.  Be mindful of this when you are posting.

[Drusilla]

17 hours ago, ally said:

Yeah, I notice that every television show has become a soap opera with all the shipping.  No, worries to you two.  You haven't seen ugly, snarky, or sarcastic until you've looked at some of the tweets, forums, and blogs of Hawaii Five-0.  I don't know how a cheesy action cop show could have so much damn shipping conflict.  It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. 

I never cared for the way Tom and Liz got together either time.  The second time they got together when they hooked up at the end of season 2 was when she was at one of her lowest points and made her look like she had low self-esteem and self-confidence.  She came across as pathetic.  It could have been written better where he momentarily went off and discovered who he wanted to be and she rebuilt her life.  It was crazy that he seemed to always be playing a character.  He never truly found himself.  Don't get me wrong I do believe much like her, he wanted the house, car, dog and 2 kids, but he also wanted excitement.  He needed to truly find out who he was since he spent most of his life playing other people.  I think in the end he found it and chose to protect his family, but died doing so.

As for Liz and Ressler, I'm not sure where it will lead to, but they will at least bond over losing their spouses.  It would be nice to see Liz find herself and be the strong person her mother was supposed to be.  Maybe then she could move on to Ressler or someone that hasn't come on screen yet.

As of right now he's in demand and he's already made his own film.  I think we've seen the last of Ryan Eggold.  They might bring on someone else to play Tom Keen, but I think Ryan is one and done.  He's hot right now and he needs to act on it while he has a chance.  Fame and demand in Hollywood fades quickly.

Totally Ally. I don't get how people can't just watch a show without making it into Mr & Mrs all the time. I have always found it hard to get into Liz, I really tried, but there were too many glaring holes in her character frm the get go. Tom was merely a plot device, he was never a real flesh and blood character. Ressler too.  There is something completely empty about them. It could have been so much better, so much tighter and Megan Boone is not good enough to hold this kind of lead role, she just isn't, no matter how pwetty her fans think she is or how how much people ship her with every dude on the show.  I get that there are viewers who think it's the shizzle because they're invested in shipping more than the actual quality of the show itself and I get why the actors are all over it on social media, after all, you don't sh*t where you eat. Why would Eggold give up Spike Lee for a half baked badly written role? I think the production team is winding it down, I don't know why, but I think this is it, come end of S5. If Liz ends up with Ressler then it's just Days of Our Lives.

I'm really cheerful today!

[paigow]

Garvey thinks Red!Spader is the genuine article. "Identifying the bones would damage Reddington" not "some imposter"....Kaplan never treated Red!Spader like she knew he was a fraud, Even if he is a fake, Red!Spader is feared as much as the real Reddington would have been...so, the bones have to be somebody else...

[Dowel Jones]

My theory is that the bones belong to the continuity editor for the show.  That would explain a lot.

Garvey must be quite the operator with that size of a gang.  I counted 8 dead at the farmhouse, plus a couple in the barn, and he still had three or four left to hang out at Liz's house.  And they were all incompetent. 

[paigow]

12 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

My theory is that the bones belong to the continuity editor for the show.   

You mean the intern / studio tour guide????

[Biggie B]

I don't know whose bones were in that suitcase and don't care. We've come this far without knowing and it's made no difference. Shit or get off the pot, it's dragged on far too long. Add me to the list of those who mentioned that they gave up on "Lost" for similar reasons.

I think the DNA results showed that Tom and Liz were brother and sister. Just kidding...I think...

The slo-mo scenes were horrible - seriously, it was just a lot of open mouths. I fast forwarded. 

At what point were dogs even mentioned this season? Everyone keeps mentioning that the dogs are MIA, but I don't even remember Tom or Liz even talking about a dog recently. I know there has been a dog or dogs seen since the show debuted but since Liz's pregnancy and all that's followed, when were the dogs mentioned or seen? I'm drawing a blank.

Sorry to see Tom die, I actually sort of liked his character - not always, but sometimes. But the actor has other stuff going on, so more power to him.

[Ottis]

Something is clearly wrong with me because I laughed at Lizzy  and Tom in the car on the way to the hospital, each trying to out dramatic the other. “Promise me... tell Agnes about me.” Self centered to the end, our Lizzy. The over use of slow mo and music made it even funnier. 

I liked the audacity of the time jump. They killed the wrong person though, of that duo. 

I cannot imagine who the bones belong to that could change things so much if it were known. Aliens? Abraham Lincoln? Lenin? Don’t care, either. 

And I care even less who dates who on this show. Lizzy has never worked as a character. Tom did, except for everything to do with Lizzy. Everyone else is a side show except Red, of course, who is the reason to watch.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Ottis

[Drusilla]

7 hours ago, Biggie B said:

 

I think the DNA results showed that Tom and Liz were brother and sister. Just kidding...I think...

 

You know, this crossed my mind too. I'd laugh like a drain. Red saying "I told you to stay away from him but no, now you've gone and given birth to a banjo plucker." No wonder we don't see Aggie any more.

[kaygeeret]

Every now and then I heck in here to read the latest idiocy the writers have foisted on us all.

I am praying that the show is done as it really is no longer funny in any sense.

RIP!

And I seriously don't CARE who the hell the chicks dad is and din't even care about motivation because..... is there any really?  Do any of us care about any of them?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

14 minutes ago, kaygeeret said:

Every now and then I heck in here to read the latest idiocy the writers have foisted on us all.

I am praying that the show is done as it really is no longer funny in any sense.

RIP!

And I seriously don't CARE who the hell the chicks dad is and din't even care about motivation because..... is there any really?  Do any of us care about any of them?

If I had no interest I would stop watching and I would definitely stop reading about it.  There's an infinite amount of other stuff I could be reading.

[Gothish520]

On 11/21/2017 at 9:27 PM, Ottis said:

Something is clearly wrong with me because I laughed at Lizzy  and Tom in the car on the way to the hospital, each trying to out dramatic the other. “Promise me... tell Agnes about me.” Self centered to the end, our Lizzy. The over use of slow mo and music made it even funnier. 

I liked the audacity of the time jump. They killed the wrong person though, of that duo. 

I cannot imagine who the bones belong to that could change things so much if it were known. Aliens? Abraham Lincoln? Lenin? Don’t care, either. 

And I care even less who dates who on this show. Lizzy has never worked as a character. Tom did, except for everything to do with Lizzy. Everyone else is a side show except Red, of course, who is the reason to watch.

I guess it's easy to get a big head when everyone around you keeps telling you how special you are and constantly laying down their lives for you. Is she the second coming or something? Good grief. 

That being said, I kind of liked the Tom/Liz romance - I think she really humanized him. I loathed Tom in the beginning, when he was just a wimpy teacher - as soon as Liz found the secrets in the floorboards, I turned to my husband and said "Well, Tom just got a lot more interesting." And I've pretty much been either appalled or fascinated by his character since. I really enjoyed Redemption and was bummed it wasn't renewed. 

[JakersWild]

On 11/24/2017 at 10:48 PM, Gothish520 said:

I guess it's easy to get a big head when everyone around you keeps telling you how special you are and constantly laying down their lives for you. Is she the second coming or something? Good grief. 

That being said, I kind of liked the Tom/Liz romance - I think she really humanized him. I loathed Tom in the beginning, when he was just a wimpy teacher - as soon as Liz found the secrets in the floorboards, I turned to my husband and said "Well, Tom just got a lot more interesting." And I've pretty much been either appalled or fascinated by his character since. I really enjoyed Redemption and was bummed it wasn't renewed. 

Agreed. While they changed Tom's character's behavior a bit too often to serve the plot, ultimately his character worked far better than Liz's. He was good in Redemption, and I'd have watched if it were renewed.

Other than the fact that Liz is the reason and interface for Red working with the FBI, what it is about her? Is she great or even good at her job? Oh goodness no. Is she a compelling character; fascinating to watch? Hardly. Does the actress give compelling performances that pull you in no matter what? Ha ha, no. It does seem like they've spent five seasons trying to convince us how awesome her character is, when really she is a dull wet blanket most of the time. They also write her very inconsistently. She could have died, and like they do every time Liz is kidnapped or missing again, Red could have worked with Aram on the blacklisters. I enjoy watching those two together. They could have found some other reason than Liz for Red to continue working with the FBI, if only to avenge her death and continue on her legacy. I wanted to like her character, and every so often think maybe they'll write her in a direction where I could, but then, nope.

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, JakersWild said:

Red could have worked with Aram on the blacklisters. I enjoy watching those two together. They could have found some other reason than Liz for Red to continue working with the FBI, if only to avenge her death and continue on her legacy. I wanted to like her character, and every so often think maybe they'll write her in a direction where I could, but then, nope.

Now there's a show I would watch -- as long as Aram ditches Samar.

Liz murdered the Attorney-General -- and it wasn't self-defense, it was murder -- then goes on the run as a fugitive from the law and was given a pardon, faked her own death and yet somehow got her old job back.  And I think she shot a cop in there somewhere too.  The tale of Lizzie is just ridiculous at this point.

[paigow]

Accessory to murder of old man HarborMaster....

[misstwpherecool]

How did they know the bones/suitcase were in circulation again?-Kaplan? Was 'Reddington' a mole from day one born and raised in the US or a KGB imposter from the Blacklist Redemption camp?

Tom living/recovering in a Scottie vacation resort and Kaplan plotting some more moves.