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S02.E05: N-I--NIGHTMARE ON D-I--DIMEO STREET


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(edited)

No wheelchair costume this year? Bummer...* :\ (Also, I really wanted to see Jimmy's 'Law & Order' audition! xD )

While I still prefer s.1's Halloween episode by a wide margin, I did like how the kids' dreams weren't just random parodies for their own sake (as 'The Simpsons' "Treehouse of Horror" specials** often tend to be):

-- JJ's 'Exorcist'-fueled power fantasy tapped into a number of disability-related frustrations (from insurance companies to pop-culture portrayals);

-- Dylan's 'Freaky Friday'-inspired body-switch nightmare kinda worked as an answer to last week's Dylan-bullying-Ray subplot, with her trapped in his body as he (in her body) gets his revenge by pretending to be the real Dylan and acting as if the body-switch hadn't happened; 

-- Ray's 'Saw'-like escape-room nightmare (the only one of the three not fueled by the spoiled candy) rather obviously drew on his frustration with his family's refusal to follow rules, show up to places on time, etc.;

-- Unless I missed something, the last-second twist seemed to imply that Kenneth dreamed all of this (including the dreams within the dream?) some time before Halloween, which made me wonder if the whole episode was meant to reveal some insight into how he sees the DiMeo family ... even though his main takeaway ended up being the idea for the Michael Jackson costumes.

 

* - I actually had an idea that I wanted to see where, as a neat reversal of last year's ep (in which the kids upset their dad by bailing on the family costume when they had other plans), Jimmy designs a costume for JJ but, due to a sudden illness or injury, is unable to build it in time for Halloween, disappointing the kids and leaving them (along with Maya) divided over whether to carry out his plan themselves, scrap it and come up with a simpler family costume they could do, or skip the holiday altogether; ultimately, they would choose the first option, with Kenneth's help.  (As for costume theme, maybe 'Alien' / 'Aliens'?)

** - Apparently, this show's own take on TOH is actually what the writers were trying for:

Edited by GRChereck
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Before it ended, I was like "Ehhhh."

Then once it ended up being Kenneth's hot tub nap dream, that made it entertaining - since it is how Kenneth views them all- we get to see how Kenneth ticks.

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I laughed from beginning to end with this episode! Wow! Just hilarious. It was as though the writers felt like really flexing their weird funny muscles & saying 'This is how weird we can be. This is how funny this writers' room is.' Solid jokes after jokes. And how good is this cast? All of them make me laugh (Kyla's impression of Mason's Ray was so funny)but again the MVP is Cedric Yarbrough! From being the reluctant possessed aide to ALL of those brilliant Michael Jackson costumes/makeup (which he pulled off) to the put upon Jigsaw Master. Seriously, how does he make people laugh with a mask on. I truly was laughing at that guy. Best Halloween themed show I've ever seen, hands down!

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It was funny, but the entire piece with the 20 year old candy causing everything. That was stretching it, I don't believe for one second it would have been around that long and not been thrown away or eaten. 

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9 hours ago, GRChereck said:

Apparently, this show's own take on TOH is actually what the writers were trying for:

Oh, okay.  I never watched TOH, so I  can't relate to the references.  I would've preferred to see them with an awesome costume theme like last year.  Kenneth's Michael Jackson outfits were the best part, IMO. 

Edited by ChitChat
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33 minutes ago, readster said:

It was funny, but the entire piece with the 20 year old candy causing everything. That was stretching it, I don't believe for one second it would have been around that long and not been thrown away or eaten. 

It was hidden in the duct!

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I didn't mind it for what it was attempting and I think JJ's was the one that worked the best because it gave a twist on the frustrations he has to deal with.  The other 2? Been there, done that. 

 

But Kenneth's Benjamin Buttoning Michael Jackson idea had me HOWLING.  The Rock With You outfit had me giggling for a few minutes. 

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14 hours ago, vibeology said:

That was the worst episode of this show so far. I should have turned it off. 

I shut it off.  I really love this show so it took a lot to do so, but I really didn't like it.

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(edited)
10 hours ago, bros402 said:

Then once it ended up being Kenneth's hot tub nap dream, that made it entertaining - since it is how Kenneth views them all- we get to see how Kenneth ticks.

OK, so I was right. :) Despite my mixed feelings about this ep -- I found it pure silly fun*, and even clever in places, but it seemed to lack the show's usual heart -- I definitely want to give it a second look with that in mind. 

8 hours ago, pajamamama said:

I laughed from beginning to end with this episode! Wow! Just hilarious. It was as though the writers felt like really flexing their weird funny muscles & saying 'This is how weird we can be. This is how funny this writers' room is.' Solid jokes after jokes. And how good is this cast? All of them make me laugh (Kyla's impression of Mason's Ray was so funny)but again the MVP is Cedric Yarbrough! From being the reluctant possessed aide to ALL of those brilliant Michael Jackson costumes/makeup (which he pulled off) to the put upon Jigsaw Master. Seriously, how does he make people laugh with a mask on. I truly was laughing at that guy. Best Halloween themed show I've ever seen, hands down!

You know, I thought of you while watching this one -- being a very Kenneth-centric ep, I had a feeling you'd really enjoy it. This was a really good showcase for him, and both Kenneth and Cedric really seemed to have a lot of fun playing with the different MJ looks. :D 

(Before this episode's press-release synopsis came out, I had assumed we would probably get another Jimmy-centric Halloween outing like last year's; but the last two eps, spotlighting his work-life and his bond with JJ, made me plenty happy. Plus, next week's ep, "S-H--Shipping," sounds like it might be a good look at his and Maya's relationship, as well as both their dynamics with Ray -- fingers crossed...)

5 hours ago, ChitChat said:

I would've preferred to see them with an awesome costume theme like last year.  Kenneth's Michael Jackson outfits were the best part, IMO. 

Yeah, it just seemed wrong that the DiMeos would drop the family-costume tradition with no explanation, especially since Jimmy's gift for designing and building wheelchair costumes for JJ -- besides being one of the few things he has felt he can do well -- was, along with his heart-to-heart talks with Ray, one of his earliest defining characteristics that made him so special and more than just another stereotypical lazy-bumbling sitcom dad. :\ 

 

* - I suppose it's worth noting that show creator Scott Silveri and writer Danny Chun said in a recent behind-the-scenes interview that this was actually a pretty hard sell to ABC at first -- a story so far outside the reality of the series -- but the network ultimately took it as "the kind of big swing that then allows [the show] to get more grounded and serious elsewhere":

http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/speechless-great-family-comedy-season-2-preview/

Edited by GRChereck
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I liked it a lot, I thought it was a super fun episode. And knowing that the whole episode was actually a dream of Kenneth explains at least some of the inconsistencies. I cant imagine they wuld abandon their group costumes! 

I couldn't love Kenneth's costumes more if they all came with musical accompaniment. 

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Yeah, I think a lot of you are missing the point that all of this, ALL OF THIS was an interpretation of KENNETH'S dream/nightmare. From Maya defending JJ to no end, even when he's killing people, to making Kenneth skip and slap himself, to Dimeo's making him miss his party, to Kenneth thinking they would have old candy in their ducts (because they don't clean their house), to Ray and Dylan's incessant fighting, to the Dimeo's needing him to DUNK A BASKETBALL, to what he secretly thinks Jimmy and Maya want to kiss him! Haha! This was hysterical. This was a turn off your brain, but not too much because the jokes came fast, and just have fun show! Loved it.

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Yeah, I think a lot of you are missing the point that all of this, ALL OF THIS was an interpretation of KENNETH'S dream/nightmare.

I got that, I just didn't particularly care for it (except for Kenneth dressing up as Michael Jackson.)

Quote

Yeah, it just seemed wrong that the DiMeos would drop the family-costume tradition with no explanation, especially since Jimmy's gift for designing and building wheelchair costumes for JJ -- besides being one of the few things he has felt he can do well -- was, along with his heart-to-heart talks with Ray, one of his earliest defining characteristics that made him so special and more than just another stereotypical lazy-bumbling sitcom dad. :\ 

After last year's epic Halloween costumes, I was really expecting something along those lines.  This episode was a disappointment to me.  YMMV. 

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2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I liked it a lot, I thought it was a super fun episode. And knowing that the whole episode was actually a dream of Kenneth explains at least some of the inconsistencies. I cant imagine they wuld abandon their group costumes!

I suppose, though it would be neat if we found out in a later episode what they actually did for Halloween -- maybe a passing reference, or a photo of whatever this year's costume ended up being. :)

Judging from comments here and on the show's official social-media accounts (even the recappers on TVOvermind and Tracking Board were sharply divided, giving it 2.5 out of 5 stars and an A-, respectively), this has got to be the most polarizing episode since the Oscar Party one. o_O For what it's worth, according to one of the writers, it wasn't meant to be taken as "canon":

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1 hour ago, readster said:

Which screams to eat it apparently. 

I think JJ's chocolate addiction -- a callback to the Valentine's Day episode (when he ate the candygrams he was supposed to deliver) -- most likely came into play here, which especially makes sense since this was all supposed to be Kenneth's dream anyway (having been part of that same V-Day plot, he would've recalled that aspect of JJ). :) 

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6 hours ago, GRChereck said:

I suppose, though it would be neat if we found out in a later episode what they actually did for Halloween -- maybe a passing reference, or a photo of whatever this year's costume ended up being. :)

Judging from comments here and on the show's official social-media accounts (even the recappers on TVOvermind and Tracking Board were sharply divided, giving it 2.5 out of 5 stars and an A-, respectively), this has got to be the most polarizing episode since the Oscar Party one. o_O For what it's worth, according to one of the writers, it wasn't meant to be taken as "canon":

It definitely seemed like a non-canon episode. Or, well, at least canon as the kind of dream Kenneth gets when he is (presumably) getting overheated while napping in his hot tub. Imagine the reaction if next year they do a Christmas episode like this. Or like how Community did that episode with claymation. I could see this show doing that.

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(edited)
9 hours ago, bros402 said:

Imagine the reaction if next year they do a Christmas episode like this. Or like how Community did that episode with claymation. I could see this show doing that.

I wasn't a fan of last year's "Choir," so a Christmas special where they do something really out of the ordinary might be preferable*. xD But then again, if this episode ended up causing a lot of fans to quit the show altogether and the ratings for next week's ep take a serious hit, that might make the writers all the more averse to (or at least wary of) taking those kinds of risks in the future. :\ 

 

* - I read on TVLine where one of the two scheduled December episodes (not sure yet if it'll be the Christmas one, or the week before) is supposedly about the DiMeos trying to go see the upcoming Star Wars movie ('The Last Jedi,' I think?) -- an obvious Disney-ABC tie-in, but at least there's some precedent for the family liking the original 'Star Wars' (one of JJ's past wheelchair costumes was R2D2), and I can imagine the family's habitual lateness, Jimmy's cheapness (sneaking snacks into the theater), and/or Maya raising hell over accessibility problems coming into play... :)

Edited by GRChereck
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Well the ratings have already taken a hit this season, but hopefully it doesn't fall any farther.  

I still think OSCAR PARTY is the worst series episode to date - it just didn't work at all except for the teaser. I'd rather consider that non-canon. I remember CHOIR fizzled out at the end and THANKSGIVING was weak with too many guests, but it was the only major Kenneth/Ray plot I can remember (and it didn't work very well - try again, writers).  Except for that one disaster and a few off-shows it's been a great run so far.

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I’m glad one of the writers mentioned it being non canon, because that’s kind of how I took it anyway! I actually did enjoy it. But I don’t think it was so much the episode (which relied in the old trope of acting out old movies, even if it all WAS Kenneth dream- which actually is another trope.....)as it was the interaction among the cast.  

I love this cast. And enjoy the recurring characters (Principal Miller and the teacher) , so I can forgive a lot with the plot.

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19 hours ago, ChitChat said:

Oh, I hope not.  Please show, don't go down that road! 

You don't want to see a clay-JJ? (Clay-J?) :P

 

 

3 hours ago, 71dude said:

Well the ratings have already taken a hit this season, but hopefully it doesn't fall any farther.  

I still think OSCAR PARTY is the worst series episode to date - it just didn't work at all except for the teaser. I'd rather consider that non-canon. I remember CHOIR fizzled out at the end and THANKSGIVING was weak with too many guests, but it was the only major Kenneth/Ray plot I can remember (and it didn't work very well - try again, writers).  Except for that one disaster and a few off-shows it's been a great run so far.

Yeah, Oscar Party is the worst episode of the series, I think. Choir was.... eh

Ratings are down - but that's for every network. ABC has a partial stake in Speechless, so unless it totally tanks, I doubt they'll cancel it it - and if it keeps the same in season 3, it'll get a fourth season for more syndication money. I wonder how the show is doing in the Live+3 or the Live+7? Or on Hulu. Since the networks are taking whatever viewers they can get, even if they aren't live.

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6 hours ago, bros402 said:

You don't want to see a clay-JJ? (Clay-J?) :P

 

 

Yeah, Oscar Party is the worst episode of the series, I think. Choir was.... eh

Ratings are down - but that's for every network. ABC has a partial stake in Speechless, so unless it totally tanks, I doubt they'll cancel it it - and if it keeps the same in season 3, it'll get a fourth season for more syndication money. I wonder how the show is doing in the Live+3 or the Live+7? Or on Hulu. Since the networks are taking whatever viewers they can get, even if they aren't live.

So, Hulu doesn’t count for ratings? That is interesting! I’m pretty much forced to watch on Hulu because I can’t watch live. Ironically it’s because of my special needs kid and it interferes in our nighttime routine, and my recorder doesn’t work. Hulu is great for that as I get to watch the next morning. I wonder if there are other parents in the same boat?

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9 hours ago, 71dude said:

Well the ratings have already taken a hit this season, but hopefully it doesn't fall any farther.  

I still think OSCAR PARTY is the worst series episode to date - it just didn't work at all except for the teaser. I'd rather consider that non-canon. I remember CHOIR fizzled out at the end and THANKSGIVING was weak with too many guests, but it was the only major Kenneth/Ray plot I can remember (and it didn't work very well - try again, writers).  Except for that one disaster and a few off-shows it's been a great run so far.

I started with the show late, but I heard very bad things about Oscar Party and Choir. Being an educator and having worked with Special Needs kids of many ages and families that are forced to move a lot. There are many things I enjoy about Speechless and some that make me go: "Really, seriously?" There were moments that made me laugh and saying that this was non-canon does make me feel better. I can get that JJ is a chocolate addict, so that leads to the candy eating. However, it makes everyone else look like an idiot eating this stuff not to mention how it stayed intact for 20 years being in a DUCT. I get more about they were trying to say how much the school faculty does not think things through. Even going as far as: "Yeah, we get it, we write them like they just got into education, but laugh." Just saying to the audience you know you don't write them the best at times, doesn't mean it's ok on a regular basis. 

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(edited)
9 hours ago, bros402 said:

I wonder how the show is doing in the Live+3 or the Live+7? Or on Hulu. Since the networks are taking whatever viewers they can get, even if they aren't live.

I haven't been able to get any numbers like that for this particular show -- the lists only show the Top 25 or so, and the ones that tend to do best are ones the most people are watching live anyway, such as 'The Good Doctor,' 'This Is Us' and 'Big Bang Theory' -- so it must not be getting that much of a boost (probably no more than .3 in Live+3, and .4 or .5 in Live+7)... ('Designated Survivor' seems to be one of the few exceptions where no matter how low its live rating gets, DVR and streaming virtually doubles it.)

3 hours ago, neuromom said:

So, Hulu doesn’t count for ratings? ... Hulu is great for that as I get to watch the next morning.

I guess it would count as part of Live+3, as long as you're watching it the next day. :)

13 hours ago, 71dude said:

Well the ratings have already taken a hit this season, but hopefully it doesn't fall any farther.

That's what I meant -- it seems to be doing on par with its spring numbers (1.1-1.4), but the three eps since "First Second First Day" (2x2) seem to have plateaued at 1.1. But yeah, I'm just hoping it doesn't go fractional, especially this early in the season. :\

Edited by GRChereck
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2 hours ago, GRChereck said:

I haven't been able to get any numbers like that for this particular show -- the lists only show the Top 25 or so, and the ones that tend to do best are ones the most people are watching live anyway, such as 'The Good Doctor,' 'This Is Us' and 'Big Bang Theory' -- so it must not be getting that much of a boost (probably no more than .3 in Live+3, and .4 or .5 in Live+7)... ('Designated Survivor' seems to be one of the few exceptions where no matter how low its live rating gets, DVR and streaming virtually doubles it.)

I guess it would count as part of Live+3, as long as you're watching it the next day. :)

That's what I meant -- it seems to be doing on par with its spring numbers (1.1-1.4), but the three eps since "First Second First Day" (2x2) seem to have plateaued at 1.1. But yeah, I'm just hoping it doesn't go fractional, especially this early in the season. :\

I’m hoping they put it behind Roseanne for what should be a good leadin. Basically Tuesday at 9 would be Roseanne/Speechless with Blackish going 8:30 on Wednesday.

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On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 5:28 PM, tennisgurl said:

I liked it a lot, I thought it was a super fun episode. And knowing that the whole episode was actually a dream of Kenneth explains at least some of the inconsistencies. I cant imagine they wuld abandon their group costumes! 

I couldn't love Kenneth's costumes more if they all came with musical accompaniment. 

Evil JJ and the body swap had me cracking up! Mason and Kyla nailed each other perfectly. I wasn't crazy about the escape room.

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3 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

I think ABC does a terrible job promoting Speechless. I rarely see commercials for upcoming episodes during their other shows. I see ads for Blackish and Modern Family all the time.

Not the easiest show to promote, plus it’s still a youngin so it doesn’t get nearly the marketing budget as an older show.

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(edited)
21 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

I think ABC does a terrible job promoting Speechless. I rarely see commercials for upcoming episodes during their other shows. I see ads for Blackish and Modern Family all the time.

Glad I'm not the only one who's noticed. :( The first s.2 promo didn't start airing until a week before the premiere, and none of the promos after that one have been posted to YouTube (in fact, I rarely see them online outside of the show's official Twitter, Facebook and maybe InstaGram pages, as well as some of the cast members' Twitter and/or IG pages -- and the same goes for individual highlights clips, as YouTube quit posting them after the season premiere and ABC's official site stopped after episode 2x3).

But yeah, other than possibly 'Fresh Off the Boat,' it does seem to get the least promotion of all the ABC comedies -- it's no longer new (unlike 'The Mayor'), it didn't get a time-slot change (unlike 'American Housewife' and 'black-ish,' or FOTB to a lesser extent), it wasn't an Emmy contender (unlike 'black-ish' and 'Modern Family'), it's not a top-rated show (unlike MF), 'The Goldbergs' was starting to go into syndication and is also one of the higher-rated comedies, and 'The Middle' is in its final season. :\

Edited by GRChereck
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4 hours ago, Skyfall said:

Not the easiest show to promote, plus it’s still a youngin so it doesn’t get nearly the marketing budget as an older show.

Why is it a difficult show to promote? Minnie Driver is a successful actress in movies and television. Newer shows need the promotion in order to attract an audience. 

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14 hours ago, GRChereck said:

I haven't been able to get any numbers like that for this particular show -- the lists only show the Top 25 or so, and the ones that tend to do best are ones the most people are watching live anyway, such as 'The Good Doctor,' 'This Is Us' and 'Big Bang Theory' -- so it must not be getting that much of a boost (probably no more than .3 in Live+3, and .4 or .5 in Live+7)... ('Designated Survivor' seems to be one of the few exceptions where no matter how low its live rating gets, DVR and streaming virtually doubles it.)

I guess it would count as part of Live+3, as long as you're watching it the next day. :)

That's what I meant -- it seems to be doing on par with its spring numbers (1.1-1.4), but the three eps since "First Second First Day" (2x2) seem to have plateaued at 1.1. But yeah, I'm just hoping it doesn't go fractional, especially this early in the season. :\

Nielsen just added Hulu to its ratings this summer, but who knows how accurate it is. https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/25/nielsen-hulu-youtube/

 

1 hour ago, kathyk24 said:

Why is it a difficult show to promote? Minnie Driver is a successful actress in movies and television. Newer shows need the promotion in order to attract an audience. 

Disabilities are hard to market. The default reaction to disability is inspiration porn. How are they going to do that with a comedy where they don't want that to happen? Especially since one of the main characters doesn't speak - hard to show off jokes.

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18 hours ago, bros402 said:

Nielsen just added Hulu to its ratings this summer, but who knows how accurate it is. https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/25/nielsen-hulu-youtube/

 

Disabilities are hard to market. The default reaction to disability is inspiration porn. How are they going to do that with a comedy where they don't want that to happen? Especially since one of the main characters doesn't speak - hard to show off jokes.

Then you don't market the show as just about disability you market the show as a family with one person with a disability. I like JJ but I also enjoy the other characters as well. Modern Family isn't a gay sitcom it's a show with a gay family member.

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2 hours ago, 71dude said:

TV Grim Reaper has renewal odds at 85% - up from 80% last week:

http://www.tvgrimreaper.com/2017/10/30/week-6-predictions-thebrave-likely-canceled/3076/

Well, that's good to know -- and see FOTB has the same odds. :) I was a little worried since I was just reading elsewhere that neither show got any additional episodes ordered, and thought that meant they're both probably getting cancelled after this season (AH and 'black-ish' were the only comedies with expanded orders -- they're each getting 2 more for a total of 24).

http://deadline.com/2017/10/greys-anatomy-american-housewife-black-ish-additional-episodes-abc-2017-18-season-1202198178/

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1 hour ago, GRChereck said:

Well, that's good to know -- and see FOTB has the same odds. :) I was a little worried since I was just reading elsewhere that neither show got any additional episodes ordered, and thought that meant they're both probably getting cancelled after this season (AH and 'black-ish' were the only comedies with expanded orders -- they're each getting 2 more for a total of 24).

http://deadline.com/2017/10/greys-anatomy-american-housewife-black-ish-additional-episodes-abc-2017-18-season-1202198178/

Speechless didn't have the 23rd episode ordered until December last year. There's time :D They are probably waiting until after the Thanksgiving episode.

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(edited)
On 10/30/2017 at 1:35 AM, bros402 said:

Saw an ad on ABC today for all of their comedies except Speechless

I was beginning to think they didn't bother making an ad for this week's episode, but looks like they've got one promo set to air during 'The Goldbergs':

 
EDIT: For some reason, the show's official Twitter deleted it already, but Minnie posted it on her IG:
 
Edited by GRChereck
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Between ABC daring to air new episodes of its Wednesday lineup against Game 7 of the World Series, and the near-total lack of promotion for this week's ep in particular, I could be flippant and say the network got what it wanted for this show -- even with the final upward "live / same-day" adjustment (0.9 -> 1.0), it hit a new low -- but I guess it could've been worse, since it ultimately only went down .1 from what it had been doing the previous three weeks (1.1):

http://www.tvratingsguide.com/2017/11/wednesday-tv-ratings-11117-speechless.html :\

The next new episodes of the Wednesday comedies -- all Thanksgiving-themed (11/15) -- are going to be sandwiched between two one-week breaks: the CMA Awards for 11/8, and the Charlie Brown Thanksgiving special / reruns for 11/22. I can't imagine that sort of scheduling will be good for the ratings, either... (After that, we're supposed to get three new eps in a row -- 11/29, 12/6 and 12/13.)

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hmm yeah speechless seems to  get little recognition, i hardly see any ads here in canada, also family guy even ignored it and referenced the other shows, here's a quote 

 

 

lois:We've actually been watching The Middle together. It's so funny! Isn't it funny, Peter? It is actually funny. At least three times an episode we turn to each other and we say, BOTH: "That's just like us!" - (LAUGHING) - (LAUGHS) Why are you laughing? - It sounded funny. - But you had to be there. Well, I was able to imagine myself there, which is why I chuckled. Oh, and, Donna, have you seen this Black-ish? -  (donnia is black)Why are you asking me that? - I don't know. It seems like you might like it. Oh, and, waiter, have you seen this Fresh Off the Boat? -(waiter is asian) Why are you asking me that? - I don't know. It seems like you might like it. Oh, there's Mort. Mort! Have you seen this The Goldbergs? MORT: Yes! I like it 'cause I'm Jewish. 

Edited by hovegeta
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