S01.E03: Oliver

[MakeMeLaugh]

The whole innocent glass of champagne line was stupid on sooooo many levels. People celebrate graduations ALL THE TIME without champagne. The daughter was an idiot forcing it on her father. Chicago Med last season had a recovering alcoholic transplant recipient who tested positive for recent alcohol abuse and they still did the transplant, so maybe this patient just needs to move to Chicago.

Loved the “Oliver” bit. Shaun is so sweet to take things at face value.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm really enjoying this show, just please no romantic stuff with Browne, if they're going to hook him up with anyone at keast make it the Lab Technician, she seemed cool.

I like the flashbacks and, how they expand on Shaun's character and development.

I'm enjoying most of the side characters although I want more Toby, Richard Schiff is a big reason I started watching.

I'm also enjoying Freddie Highmore, I watched a bit of Bates Motel so I knew he could act but, he's an absolute delight here. I agree with the kitten description.

[Pink-n-Green]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 11:41 AM, Pop Tart said:

I don't think her actions were criminal but they struck me as incredibly unrealistic. He thought he owed it to his daughter to have a glass of champagne to celebrate because she was the first in their family to graduate from higher education? And her handing it to him? The daughter of an alcoholic, one whose liver is so damaged he's waiting for a transplant, is not going to hand her dad a glass of champagne. I don't care if she was just elected President of the World, there's just no way she wouldn't have all kinds of baggage about his drinking, and that aside, the guy is going to die if he doesn't get a liver, so you give him a drink?

So, I finally watched this episode.  I tell you, when daughter-new-lawyer-woman-who-ultimately-kills-her-dad was telling Dr. Mole that if her father died then HE (Dr. Mole) was responsible, I wanted to reach through the television screen and slap the taste out of her mouth.  Stupid b**tch.  Then later, when Dr. Mole tells her it's not her fault even though she handed her father the champagne, I wanted to reach through again and yell at him, "You Lie!!!".  Sheesh.

[possibilities]

I caved. The first time I tried to watch this episode, I bailed after the first few minutes because I hate everyone except Shaun and the writing is shit. But I do love Shaun, and I wanted to see if it got any better, so I caught it today on Hulu.

On 10/10/2017 at 2:46 AM, Bobbin said:

 pieces of livers, lobes, can be used, not necessarily the whole organ. I don't know how much greater success is with the whole organ, but living donors can donate a lobe.

 

I also wondered if the horrible selfish stupid overly entitled shallow (but gorgeous) daughter could donate a lobe. I thought livers were routinely divided up and used to save multiple patients. But I am not an expert on this subject, so maybe that's not true.

On 10/10/2017 at 0:28 PM, Pink-n-Green said:

 a patient was denied a liver transplant because he drank one glass of champagne?  That exact same situation occurred on either "ER" or "Chicago Hope" several years ago; a man had a glass of champagne at his daughter's wedding.  I wonder if that's a common thing in real life.

 

I think I saw this story done on Scrubs, also. There are just too few organs to save everyone, so they are looking for ways to make sure anyone who gets one is going to take good care of it and not do something stupid because they lack discipline. More people need to become donors. Sign the card, people!

On 10/10/2017 at 5:22 PM, DearEvette said:

I know it is important to show him being really smart and capable, but if they aren't careful they run the risk of making him a little too perfect with noticing everything and having the right solution all the time. 

House was like this, too, though, so I think it's a David Shore thing.

On 10/10/2017 at 10:05 AM, vibeology said:

I don't understand how he made it through med school if he can't answer a question.

 

Them acting like he never went to med school, or learned ways to deal with and inform people of his needed accommodations is the thing that annoys me most about the show. Also, didn't he answer questions from the neighbor? Do you have batteries? Can I borrow batteries?

I hope the cat shows up for the food, and Shaun adopts the cat and it's not someone else's cat and nothing bad ever happens to it. After the bunny, I don't trust the show not to use animals for trauma.

I have no problem with the idea that Shaun could have an intimate relationship. I would like it, but I only want to see them do it if they do it well. He's not a child. And he seems to be quite capable of bonding.

[Nijntje]

A Canadian man is currently fighting the 6-month sobriety rule. The article also mentions pilot projects that have occurred / are being planned that eliminate that requirement.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41407983

[displayname]

19 hours ago, possibilities said:

On 10/10/2017 at 10:05 AM, vibeology said:

I don't understand how he made it through med school if he can't answer a question.

 

Them acting like he never went to med school, or learned ways to deal with and inform people of his needed accommodations is the thing that annoys me most about the show. Also, didn't he answer questions from the neighbor? Do you have batteries? Can I borrow batteries?

I think the point was mentioned in the Claire/Glassman conversation: He was in a different environment, and he wasn't accustomed to it. He probably was accustomed to his med school and probably is accustomed to his home.

[possibilities]

Reading a review of this episode, written by someone autistic, she points out that the neighbor was flirting with Shaun during their battery-borrowing and battery-returning interactions, and he didn't seem to notice. I am neurotypical but I didn't notice the flirting, either. So now I am wondering if I missed the social cues (totally possible, especially as regards hetero flirting, which I find to be very annoying and different than how we do things in the lezzy world I move in). Opinions? Was she flirting? Or was it ambiguous?

[Annber03]

Well, I'm straight, and it didn't really read as flirting to me. I can perhaps see where some might view it that way, but I think it's more that she's just a naturally friendly sort in general. And if she's a little thrown by his awkwardness and not entirely sure how to properly respond, maybe her friendliness comes off a little more heightened as a result, if that makes sense? 

[Madding crowd]

I don't think she knew or met Sean before she came over, so I assumed she just came as a neighbor. I think it will eventually become flirting, but I didn't get that either. I'm not sure I can Sean as he is now, as having the ability to flirt with anyone. This is not to say all autistic people are that way-I know they are not, but they are writing Sean as having almost no social skills. 

[Virtual]

I assumed that Chuck wanted to feel normal for a day so he'd asked for a drink of champagne and the daughter handed it to him.

I thought this episode was a huge step for the other characters as we got to see them branch out beyond their usual characterizations on this show. I hope to see more episodes like this one in the show's future.

[LisaM]

I liked this episode as the focus was on other characters and not just on Shaun. I particularly liked that the board meeting had nothing to do with him. Shaun mentioned that he watches the Weather Channel so perhaps he obtained a television?

I found the plot with the daughter handing her dad a glass of champagne to be ridiculous. As an educated daughter of an alcoholic who had spent years waiting for a liver, she would likely have been desperate for him to follow all of the rules in order to get the liver and stay alive.

[backformore]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 0:14 PM, MakeMeLaugh said:

The whole innocent glass of champagne line was stupid on sooooo many levels. People celebrate graduations ALL THE TIME without champagne. The daughter was an idiot forcing it on her father. Chicago Med last season had a recovering alcoholic transplant recipient who tested positive for recent alcohol abuse and they still did the transplant, so maybe this patient just needs to move to Chicago.

Loved the “Oliver” bit. Shaun is so sweet to take things at face value.

The hospital was part of a transplant registry, and the rules are clearly defined so that decisions are completely objective.  If they overlooked a rule for one patient, the hospital could be removed from the registry and the hospital would no longer get organs to transplant.  The only way to get around the rule would be to lie to the registry, and that would include fudging the test results. 

The reason for the rule is that if a patient damaged their own liver by drinking, they need to show that they have beat the addiction by being sober for 6 months.  if they fail that test, then they are not considered a good recipient because they might not comply with instructions when they get the new liver.  A person with better compliance to the rules is a better risk.  

Freddie Highmore seems to have watched the movie Rain Man to learn how to "act autistic."  While his mannerisms are pretty consistent with autism, people with autism differ widely.  A person with autism who has completed college and medical school would have learned some skills along the way, and not be so robotic.  As someone mentioned above, if you can't make EYE contact, you don't look away, you look TOWARDS the person's face, without looking directly at their eyes. 

[MakeMeLaugh]

25 minutes ago, backformore said:

The hospital was part of a transplant registry, and the rules are clearly defined so that decisions are completely objective.  If they overlooked a rule for one patient, the hospital could be removed from the registry and the hospital would no longer get organs to transplant.  The only way to get around the rule would be to lie to the registry, and that would include fudging the test results. 

The reason for the rule is that if a patient damaged their own liver by drinking, they need to show that they have beat the addiction by being sober for 6 months.  if they fail that test, then they are not considered a good recipient because they might not comply with instructions when they get the new liver.  A person with better compliance to the rules is a better risk.  

....

Duh. My point was a different fake hospital in a different part of the country had other fake rules that let the fake transplant happen with a fake alcoholic patient who had been actively drinking. The best part of this episode was Shaun’s take that a life was saved—he didn’t value the fake patient in his own hospital who broke the rules over another.

[backformore]

9 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

Duh. My point was a different fake hospital in a different part of the country had other fake rules that let the fake transplant happen with a fake alcoholic patient who had been actively drinking. The best part of this episode was Shaun’s take that a life was saved—he didn’t value the fake patient in his own hospital who broke the rules over another.

Not sure how to take the "duh."

[Phoebe70]

So far we've had two people on this show (patient and a patient's daughter) tell the surgeon, "If he/she dies, it's all your fault."  Really?  I mean, who really says that to a surgeon in real life?  Surgeons are not God, they are not perfect, they do the best they can. 

[TwirlyGirly]

8 minutes ago, Phoebe70 said:

So far we've had two people on this show (patient and a patient's daughter) tell the surgeon, "If he/she dies, it's all your fault."  Really?  I mean, who really says that to a surgeon in real life?  Surgeons are not God, they are not perfect, they do the best they can. 

I know that, and you know that, but the sheer number of medical malpractice suits filed*, and the resulting increase in the cost of medical malpractice insurance, proves a lot of people believe otherwise.

*Statistically, the number of filed cases that succeed have been decreasing over the past 13 years, but the payouts for those who win have increased.

[Phoebe70]

1 hour ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I know that, and you know that, but the sheer number of medical malpractice suits filed*, and the resulting increase in the cost of medical malpractice insurance, proves a lot of people believe otherwise.

*Statistically, the number of filed cases that succeed have been decreasing over the past 13 years, but the payouts for those who win have increased.

Right, but I still can't imagine someone saying that to a surgeon.  I guess because I would never think to place that kind of blame on them before they even perform the surgery.

[ForReal]

On 10/10/2017 at 9:40 AM, MsNewsradio said:

He has answered questions before, and this is also something that would have come up numerous times in his life long before he ever got to this point (getting through college/med school without ever having to answer a question? Come on), but the writers apparently chose this from the Wheel of Autism this week. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't come up as an issue in subsequent episodes at all. 

I've been trying to put my finger on what bothers me so much about Shaun's character (and to be fair, Freddie is doing a good job with what he has, and I'm finding his performance far less grating than other portrayals I've seen), and I think this author sums it up far more eloquently than I can:  https://chavisory.wordpress.com/2017/10/05/invisible-history/ . 

I want to like this show, but they are just making it so hard! 

I think that article does a great job of explaining a complex idea. 

My take on watching is that Shaun *can* answer questions and does, but that when he's concentrating, he can't think and converse with her at the same time, and he does not feel rude choosing to focus on this thoughts as a first priority (and she should be fine with that because he usually comes up with something great!).

There is a lot of discussion on his lack of social skills and how it will impact his performance as a doctor, but I am wondering if they will show meltdowns and how they can impact his performance as a doctor. If he's somehow learned to manage his feelings and behaviors to avoid meltdowns -- that would be no small feat given his life experiences -- then I hope they show more of how he's learned to cope instead of just showing how he falls short in some areas of social convention.

[possibilities]

On 10/10/2017 at 0:40 PM, MsNewsradio said:

 https://chavisory.wordpress.com/2017/10/05/invisible-history/

One of the best things about watching this show is coming here and finding more great resources/thinkers about autism and life.

Especially on a show like this, where they use flashbacks, they have no excuse not to show how Shaun developed his skills. They can make him a credible adult with an interesting backstory, and not have to show him growing NOW in ways he surely had to grow BEFORE, to get through med school at the least.

Do they have staff that's knowledgeable, or are they just writing this out of their own prejudices and the DSM? I'm curious how this show came to be. It's clear Highmore did research for the acting part. But what do we know about the writing and production team?

[Miles]

First of all those controllers don't take AAA batteries, they have built in lithium ion batteries and are charged through USB. But I guess at least they got right that Uncharted is on the Playstation.

Second I'm pretty sure nobody is going to be thrown off the transplant list for 0.02. You could get that from eating fruit.

Also that liver stuff rang false to me. Livers are very resilient. You can transplant half of it and the rest will grow back. So pretty sure one little ice crystal won't do much damage. Are here any doctors? What do you think about it.

Still, it's a good jigh end soap opera.

On 10.10.2017 at 10:13 PM, thuganomics85 said:

The stuff with the neighbor is totally setting up a potential love interest for Shaun.  I was pretty much distracted over her needing batteries for her control, because she said she was playing Uncharted, but PS4 controllers shouldn't need batteries.  Unless she was playing one of the older PS3 ones.  Or had an off-brand control. Or maybe I shouldn't be thinking too much on this and just enjoy Uncharted getting name dropped (love that series.)

Even PS3 controllers have built in batteries. Pretty sure the moment they went wireless PS controllers had built in batteries.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Miles

[doctor destiny]

This whole episode makes me think that Shaun's problem is not autism at all.  It is undiagnosed PTSD.  Imagine being able to have instant recall of all your traumas as a video playing back in your brain.  Sheesh that would be hard.