GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[ulkis]

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

Laura brought the same sort of hardscrabble girl-from-the-streets-turned-mama-bear-princess that she'd played on Loving/The City and Guiding Light to Carly. It was all of a formula. But the formula worked, because she too often had great scripts, she had great chemistry and she was and is endlessly adaptable. She did not have to be molded like Tamara Braun, she was just a very seasoned daytime vet who slotted in. And Laura also brought back some of the same thing Bransford and Sarah had, which was a hardness and steel that she doesn't get enough credit for.

I agree. I forget exactly what it was, but there was a scene fairly early in her run where Michael was playing some computer game and he said something, or he was about to get up and leave, the point is he wasn't behaving nicely and it seemed like an improv where Laura Wright's Carly said, "don't get out of that chair!" just very manner-of-fact like, and she was obeyed, and someone mentioned, and it was true, that TB's Carly was never just allowed to discipline Michael like that, that he kinda always ran roughshod over her. Sorry for the vagueness, it's hard to remember, because it was such a small moment.

Edited August 21, 2016 by ulkis

[Asp Burger]

Oh, God, remember the Red Menace packing a suitcase and telling the TB Carly to get out of the penthouse? That was bone-chilling. She saw him with the suitcase and said, "Running away isn't a solution," and he said, "I'm not going anywhere. You are." I can't remember what he was mad about. It was some Carly/Sonny conflict (since TB was Carly, maybe Carly's relationship with her bio father, Durant? And/or her leaving Sonny for Lorenzo?) and he was taking his dad's side. He was like a miniature version of one of Colin and JoAnne Thatcher's sons. That coma could have come four years earlier as far as I was concerned.  

[jsbt]

Oh God, that was awful. They completely demeaned her for wanting out of Sonny's orbit.

[ulkis]

14 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

Oh, God, remember the Red Menace packing a suitcase and telling the TB Carly to get out of the penthouse? That was bone-chilling. She saw him with the suitcase and said, "Running away isn't a solution," and he said, "I'm not going anywhere. You are." I can't remember what he was mad about. It was some Carly/Sonny conflict (since TB was Carly, maybe Carly's relationship with her bio father, Durant? And/or her leaving Sonny for Lorenzo?) and he was taking his dad's side. He was like a miniature version of one of Colin and JoAnne Thatcher's sons. That coma could have come four years earlier as far as I was concerned.  

Ooooh, you know, now that you mention it, I vaguely remember this.

I'm trying to look for this and for some reason, this cracks me up:

"Post Juan's beating, Sonny is having a breakdown and Carly busts in on him."

Juan? Sonny's having a breakdown over fucking Juan? I buy that as much as I buy him caring what happened to Duke.

[UYI]

Here's Carly's "funeral" in 2002. Funny how SBu was gone then so Jason wasn't even there to say goodbye, heh.

[UYI]

Watching that clip above right now--AJ apologizing to Carly (!), Danica Stewart as Maxie, Sarah Laine as Sarah, Shouty McYellerson, Tony lingering by Carly's casket, all the people there who hated/hate Carly in general, JFP's insistence in having a long musical montage for a character who wasn't even dead, and no Jason! I don't even know what to say about all this, I just don't. It's all so surreal.

And I'm pretty sure this was shortly after the meathook stuff, too.

And young Max & Milo, too! Wow.

Edited August 21, 2016 by UYI

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

I loved and hated Sarah's Carly in equal measure (I especially hated how she treated Robin),

This is me. I'll never be able to really explain it except I love SJB and could watch her read anything written on a piece of paper. Because Carly could be SO freaking extra and flat-out diabolical and disgusting (the HIV+ related insults were atrocious), especially when it came to Robin. It helped that Robin could hold her own, but also that Jason loved Robin so completely and would tell Carly to STFU and leave Robin alone every time she went on her "Robin doesn't know you! You don't belong in her world! She hates me, Jason!" rants.

5 hours ago, ulkis said:

ooh if you find that clip post it, the last one.

I'll definitely look for it when I get a chance.

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Carly asked much more of Jason than he ever asked of her.

Jason didn't have to ask her for anything. He knew she would blindly follow his orders, lie, cheat, steal, kill for him, if necessary. 

[UYI]

Carly is alive and Michael has red hair and isn't completely evil yet!

[jsbt]

I think a lot/most of the fake death story was reworked by Guza and his team coming in. I remember a lot of it being tonally very different and the scripts becoming much better overnight - adding a lot of weight to it, even as we knew Carly wasn't dead. They played Bobbie heavy, and so forth. I don't think their names were officially on it by then but it was known they were back and reworking from McTavish, though many of Jill and Megan's characters (Sarah Laine as Sarah Webber, etc.) were still stuck onscreen.

[Asp Burger]

I don't know if there is a video clip available, but here is the 4-5 November 2004 transcript of the suitcase incident.  

***

Michael: I get in trouble when I tell lies. Why don't you?

Carly: Michael, this is a grown-up situation, and you do not understand what happened or why.

Michael: You lied about Kristina, and now you and Dad are getting a divorce. You ruined everything.

John: Hey, hey, that's enough.

Michael: Never tell me what to do. I hate you.

Carly: Hey --

Michael: I hate both of you.

Carly: Michael, don't you use that tone.

Michael: Go away. Go live with Mr. Durant. Me and Morgan are staying here with Dad.

Carly: Hey, hey, hey --

[next episode] 

Carly: I should go upstairs and talk to Michael. You know, he really is a sweetheart. You know, it's just that it -- the year's been hard enough for him without having to hear his parents' marriage is about to fall apart.

John: He's got to be a good kid. He's your son.

Carly: Thanks. What -- ok. No, no, no, no, no. Michael, Michael, turn around and take that suitcase back upstairs.

Michael: No.

Carly: Michael, your father and I have talked to you about this already. Running away is not a solution.

Michael: I'm not going anywhere. You are.

[scene break] 

Carly: I know you were upset, but you have no right to order me out of this house.

Michael: Me and Morgan are staying here with Dad. It's your fault that you're getting a divorce, so you leave.

Carly: Oh, really? Huh!

John: Michael, Michael, I know how difficult this is for you.

Michael: I'm not talking to you.

John: All right, then why don't you just listen. I know that you're mad, and you have every reason to be. But you got to remember, no matter how mad you get, nobody will ever love you like your mother.

Michael: My dad does.

John: Yeah. And he's a very special person. There's no doubt about that. But so is your mother. And I happen to know that she loves you and Morgan more than anything in this whole world.

Michael: I know.

John: You see, the special thing about Moms is you got to treat them real nice. You only get one of them. And your mom, she's one of the best ones I’ve ever seen.

Michael: I'm sorry, Mom.

Carly: Ok. It's ok.

[Tiger]

6 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Can someone refresh my memory of the mechanics of Laura Wright Carly and Jax getting together?  They got close because she was helping him raise the brat we now know as Spencer, right, because she wanted to do right by her dead BFF SWSNBN?  And she thought the best way to honor her dead friend was to get involved with her ex-husband?

IIRC, Carly and Jax both knew that Nikolas wad the biological father of Courtney's child, and plotted to fake the paternity and keep the kid away from the Cassadines. 

After their lie was exposed a few months later, they realized they had fallen in love.  

[Asp Burger]

Juan? Sonny's having a breakdown over fucking Juan? I buy that as much as I buy him caring what happened to Duke.

In 1999, since we didn't use hashtags yet, it was "AOL keyword Justice4Juan."  :-) 

My memory is hazy on all of that, but yeah, they were really trying to make Juan/Michael Saucedo happen in the summer of 1999. The youth contingent had thinned out a bit, and Ricky Martin was big on the pop charts, so they tied him to Miguel. I guess the analogous new character for 2016 would be Griffin, in the amount of screen time and the palpable hope on the show's part that viewers would care a lot about his past.  

The big tease was that Juan was Sonny's son. He believed that, anyway. He was trying to impress Sonny and come to work for the organization. Sonny turned him down and he got mixed up with the rival mobsters and got beaten and was in the hospital. Then there was a scene where Sonny visited him in the hospital and told him he wasn't his father, some other guy was, and Juan was all, "Why are you ashamed of me?" and went into cardiac arrest. In typical Sonny Corinthos/General Hospital fashion, the show decided to make us feel sorry not for the kid at death's door in the hospital but for the middle-aged mobster. "I thought I could protect that boy. Now he's going to die. I destroy everything I touch. Just like I destroyed Lily!" (Not exact quotes, but they could be.) 

I remember they used Tony Jones as the black hat character who talked about internal bleeding and blah blah blah and "Haven't you done enough? Just stay away" and we were supposed to really hate Tony for it. Then Sonny holed up in his penthouse and trashed it and didn't shower and wore a tank top, and Carly came and they did their bonding thing that was either creepy or touching, depending on your point of view (he was threatening to beat her up; she was saying, "I'm not afraid of you; I understand you better than anyone," et cetera).  

That was also, in retrospect, the beginning of the show taking its eggs out of the Hannah Scott basket. She had had a big push initially, and around this time she started getting written as the woman who cares about Sonny but doesn't understand him and can't help him.  

Versions of these stories, with modifications, have been told several times since. Zander would later be "the new Juan" in some ways, an Emily boyfriend who was desperate to impress Sonny, and then was going to work for Sonny's mob rivals when he got turned away. Didn't Zander even do that more than once? Reese and Claire were retellings of the Hannah story.  

Anyway, I don't think it was quite as simple as him having a breakdown over Juan. It was his narciss....uh, "being so hard on himself," and that episode dredging up the clink-boom tragedy. In fairness, this was one of the better-written and better-acted encounters with Sonny's Pain. Except for Saucedo, who was kind of a dud.  

Edited August 21, 2016 by Asp Burger

[UYI]

I do find it funny that Becky and JJ wound up married to two actors whose characters were introduced/flamed out at about the exact same time. They would probably be even less remembered by the audience if it weren't for those marriages (Hannah especially).

Edited August 21, 2016 by UYI

[Francie]

3 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Juan? Sonny's having a breakdown over fucking Juan? I buy that as much as I buy him caring what happened to Duke.

In 1999, since we didn't use hashtags yet, it was "AOL keyword Justice4Juan."  :-) 

 

I LOLed at this until I coughed. [truth]

[dubbel zout]

14 hours ago, jsbt said:

She had her tics and weaknesses

They all do, and sometimes they work for the characters, sometimes they don't.

14 hours ago, jsbt said:

Tamara seemed to relish letting her hair go red again

They wrote that in! Lorenzo came by her house one day and remarked on it, and she noticed he'd shaved his beard. That sort of thing probably can't happen these days with block taping, which is a shame.

14 hours ago, jsbt said:

She became a Real Housewife, and that suits Carly.

I agree, though I wish Carly did more than inappropriately meddle in her older sons' love lives. The kidney story feels right for her, even if I think Carly should be a little harder-edged in it. She should have told Jax to stuff it, she needs to know where Joss's kidney comes from for her peace of mind. That singleminded stubbornness Carly has always had should be front and center. And it should have caused giant, ongoing problems between her and Jax and her and Joss. For while there, Nina had a bigger role in the story than Carly, what with Crimson and Curtis so involved, which is daft.

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

18 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Carly asked much more of Jason than he ever asked of her.

Jason didn't have to ask her for anything. He knew she would blindly follow his orders, lie, cheat, steal, kill for him, if necessary. 

True. What I should have written, and what I meant, was that Carly needed Jason much more than he ever needed her. He was always more important to her than vice versa. 

13 hours ago, UYI said:

Carly is alive and Michael has red hair and isn't completely evil yet!

Practically the entire cast is in the church! That would never happen today.

7 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Sonny holed up in his penthouse and trashed it and didn't shower and wore a tank top

Some things never change. He also did that when he had his "episodes." 

7 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Reese and Claire were retellings of the Hannah story.

And they all looked like Brenda. It's kind of amazing he ended up with a blonde Amazon like LW's Carly.

Edited August 21, 2016 by dubbel zout

[Tiger]

Re: Tamara dying her hair and Lorenzo commenting on Carly's hair change

Tamara actually changed her hair shortly before they shot the hotel fire stuff and wore a wig for a few weeks worth of shows.  

[cmahorror]

And now for something completely different...

 

Epiphany: Is this how it's going to be around here now with you in charge?

Patrick: God I hope so.

[HeatLifer]

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Carly needed Jason much more than he ever needed her. He was always more important to her than vice versa. 

Agree. I think Michael was the reason Jason ever needed Carly. *throws barware*

This exchange between them always summed up their relationship to me:

Carly: How about playing our song?

Jason: I didn't know we had one.

[cmahorror]

Robin and Carly laying into Sonny.

 

Carly: Following up? So is that what you're doing now? You decided to take a step out of your demented life and show maybe a little compassion for the one person who's devoted his entire life to you? Or is this about you? 'Cause, you know, everything is. And you don't really give a damn about Jason.

Sonny: You know that's not true. Why would you--

Carly: What I know, Sonny, is that you have to be around someone who won't judge you for the unspeakable way you choose to conduct your life. That's what I know.

Sonny: Could we not do this right here?

Robin: Why not? You're off to a good start, Carly. I think that our sentiments about the situation might just be the same for once.

Edited August 22, 2016 by cmahorror

[TeeVee329]

Is there anything more infuriating than, "You have every right to be angry, BUT..."?

[Tiger]

Given the evolution of Tamara's Carly and then Laura's Carly declaring that Sonny and their relationship was their sickness, Michael getting shot because of Sonny, etc., the natural evolution of the Carly character and the story overall should have had her go from having Sonny's parental rights terminated and Jax adopting to Morgan, to outright working with the law to take down Sonny and his organization.  

[ulkis]

11 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Is there anything more infuriating than, "You have every right to be angry, BUT..."?

I don't know, Carly talking about how Sonny didn't take the time to visit poor poor Jason who dedicated his life to Sonny (false) is a bit more infuriating to me.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

6 hours ago, Tiger said:

Given the evolution of Tamara's Carly and then Laura's Carly declaring that Sonny and their relationship was their sickness, Michael getting shot because of Sonny, etc., the natural evolution of the Carly character and the story overall should have had her go from having Sonny's parental rights terminated and Jax adopting to Morgan, to outright working with the law to take down Sonny and his organization.  

With better writing (read: any other writing than what we're getting) Morgan should be the good, stable son and Michael should be the trainwreck who can't stop fucking up. I find it so bizarre that he complains about being shipped off to military school when being firmly ensconced in Sonny's world is what turned Michael's life into a long string of tragedies. Yeah, he has reason to be doubtful and insecure about his father's love, but for the many, many, many things Carly has done wrong over these past eight hundred and twenty four years, there was a point where she did what she could to keep Morgan out of harm's way.

[Oracle42]

That Carly was boomeranged back to Sonny after Michael being shot and her marriage to Jax, just because RC's idiotic Carly/Franco plan bombed, is just evidence of a lack of real investment and understanding of the character

[dubbel zout]

I buy Carly not being without a man—that's how she's always gotten power and money—but for her to return to Sonny was so dumb. They have kids, so it's not as if not being married means they're never in each other's orbits. On the other hand, Sonny is so gross in relationships that I'd rather he be with Carly. He's worked for me only with Brenda and Carly. OG Kate was good until they recast with KS and Ron had to have a DID story on GH.

[LeftPhalange]

10 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

That Carly was boomeranged back to Sonny after Michael being shot and her marriage to Jax, just because RC's idiotic Carly/Franco plan bombed, is just evidence of a lack of real investment and understanding of the character

If only AJ had been alive and back in town. Oh, wait...

[Oracle42]

And being in a love/hate with AJ would have given her something to do. Something of her own instead of these ridiculous non-stories where she's only meddling in her adult children's love lives and snarling at Sonny's most recent gross ONS about custody of the pointless result of their gross ONS

[ulkis]

3 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

That Carly was boomeranged back to Sonny after Michael being shot and her marriage to Jax, just because RC's idiotic Carly/Franco plan bombed, is just evidence of a lack of real investment and understanding of the character

I could buy her hooking up with him at the time that they did, but letting him suck her into getting married again for a 5th time? I dunno. I also kind of think it would have been good, if, after Sonny seduced Carly away from Franco, he was like, I don't actually want to be with you, I just slept with you to prove your relationship with Franco is a sham, enough already. I kind of feel like that would have encapsulated the S&C relationship up much better and in a weird way would have been more touching than wedding number 5. "I just had sex with you to get you away from the psychotic serial killer, my old friend!"

Edited August 22, 2016 by ulkis

[ulkis]

3 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

And being in a love/hate with AJ would have given her something to do. Something of her own instead of these ridiculous non-stories where she's only meddling in her adult children's love lives and snarling at Sonny's most recent gross ONS about custody of the pointless result of their gross ONS

Seriously. Acting like she has some epic rivalry with Ava Jerome, and over Sonny's latest child of all things. Sorry, FV, Ava v Carly isn't Carly v Robin, or Brenda, or even Liz. The only thing that would have made Carly so wholeheartedly embracing Avery would have been if Avery were really Morgan's and she was hiding the fact because she didn't want Morgan to raise the kid. Otherwise Carly should have been trying to get Ava to go away and leave town with Avery.

[Oracle42]

5 minutes ago, ulkis said:

"I just had sex with you to get you away from the psychotic serial killer, my old friend!"

That actually would have been ...kinda sweet and much more in keeping with the friendly exes chem that MB and LW have together

[ulkis]

Plus, it would have worked because - well at least imo - you could tell Sonny was genuinely concerned about Carly dating him, unlike when he stuck his nose in with her and Jax simply because he didn't like Jax.

[LeftPhalange]

21 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Seriously. Acting like she has some epic rivalry with Ava Jerome, and over Sonny's latest child of all things. Sorry, FV, Ava v Carly isn't Carly v Robin, or Brenda, or even Liz. The only thing that would have made Carly so wholeheartedly embracing Avery would have been if Avery were really Morgan's and she was hiding the fact because she didn't want Morgan to raise the kid. Otherwise Carly should have been trying to get Ava to go away and leave town with Avery.

This stupid rivalry is more for Ava's benefit than anything else. Carly and Sonny are firmly established characters who can drive story on their own. She got knocked up by a Corinthos, gets into constant repetitive arguments with Carly, and was forced into the Cassadine Island flop of a story because otherwise she lifts right out of the canvas and no one would notice. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

5 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

That Carly was boomeranged back to Sonny after Michael being shot and her marriage to Jax, just because RC's idiotic Carly/Franco plan bombed, is just evidence of a lack of real investment and understanding of the character

And as a character, Carly returning to Sonny makes about as much sense as her being with Franco after all the stuff with Jason. As in, none at all. Because Carly does not forgive, ever. Its almost admirable, really, how long she can hold grudges - against Bobbie, against Liz, against Robin. OG Luke was the only one she never really went against, but that's because Luke got her due to a sense of kinship that had nothing to do with being related. I hate the "bond" she thinks she has with Jason, who must never have wanted her that much to begin with since he said GTFO after she banged Sonny, which resulted in her taking Michael away from him, but Carly as I've always known her would never take the side of someone who did so much to hurt him. Not unless she was planning something that would FUBAR their life so utterly that they'd walk with a limp forever.

[HeatLifer]

5 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Carly as I've always known her would never take the side of someone who did so much to hurt him.

I don't think she'd ever side with or date/marry Franco. For sure. But as far as doing something herself that would hurt Jason? She had no problems with that.

But I think it was obvs the show didn't care about Franco in relation to Jason, or Jason in general, the second Frank and Ron decided to have him shot in the back and kicked into the water like an animal, followed by everyone just moving on with their lives like nothing happened soon after. Franco is played by RoHo, which means he's royalty, and they'd pair him with anyone, no matter what.

[dubbel zout]

22 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

OG Luke was the only one she never really went against, but that's because Luke got her due to a sense of kinship that had nothing to do with being related.

I think she also knew Luke wouldn't hesitate to bring the hammer down if necessary. 

[Asp Burger]

Well, one thing that has been consistent with Carly over the years is that if one of "her" people (Sonny, Jason, Courtney) has a child with someone, she inserts herself into the situation and tries to take ownership of the kid. Didn't she taunt Alexis about the possibility of her and Sonny taking Kristina away and raising her? I know she tried more than once to sell Jason on a plaaaaaan to take Jake away from Liz, and he always shot her down. With Courtney dead, she put herself on Team Jax and schemed to conceal Spencer's paternity from Nikolas. So her machinations with Avery, Ava, and Sonny are true to form in that sense.  

Edited August 22, 2016 by Asp Burger

[Tiger]

6 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

With better writing (read: any other writing than what we're getting) Morgan should be the good, stable son and Michael should be the trainwreck who can't stop fucking up. I find it so bizarre that he complains about being shipped off to military school when being firmly ensconced in Sonny's world is what turned Michael's life into a long string of tragedies. Yeah, he has reason to be doubtful and insecure about his father's love, but for the many, many, many things Carly has done wrong over these past eight hundred and twenty four years, there was a point where she did what she could to keep Morgan out of harm's way.

Can you imagine: Laura's Carly and Sean's AJ doing CarnAJ, both involved in ELQ/business drama with Tracy, Jax, Nikolas, Patrick (via the stock Edward left Emma) and Lucy, Drew's Michael doing increasingly sociopathic things such as blackmailing his good guy gay cop brother Morgan (played by anyone other than Bryan) who is unknowingly involved with the son of some weapons dealer that Sonny & Robert!Fucking!Scorpio have struck an alliance to take down.  

[ulkis]

Did Laura and Robert share scenes in 2006 or 2008? I know both did stints then but I can't remember if they conversed or were around at the same time.

[Ambrosefolly]

32 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Did Laura and Robert share scenes in 2006 or 2008? I know both did stints then but I can't remember if they conversed or were around at the same time.

No. TFGH was too busy with All Sason!All the Time! to bother having Robert come and see Laura after she awake from her coma and faked married Luke, despite Laura thinking Robert was dead at the time of her coma and neither seeing each for 20 odd years. But I read that Genie Francis and Tristen Rodgers (missed the wedding episode) did it with a look when she was getting fake married. They even said that they didn't have time.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[ulkis]

Thanks.

[Asp Burger]

I loved Zem at the time this stuff originally aired, and now I watch it and I'm more sympathetic to Juan. Saucedo isn't bad at all here in his performance, when Zander starts throwing stuff at him that he couldn't know if Emily hadn't been confiding in him ("You told him that? Does he speak for you now?"). But then, Emily became insufferable in the Natalia Livingston years, and Zander was such a weak-willed, chronically backsliding wannabe thug in the long term (despite Chad's good work). I guess what's happened is that the three characters have been evened out as people I don't miss, and Juan is the one who was around for the shortest time to annoy me. "General Hospital: Like A Character? We'll Fix That!"

[ulkis]

My God, how punchable are Ethan and his hair here?

[dubbel zout]

The hair isn't good for either of them. Becky was deep in the Taupe years. 

[Tiger]

There isnt the only time Ethan was punchable. Jasus, I hated that stupid dellusional retconned motherfucker.  

And it wasn't just the character that was a problem; the "actor" Nathan Parsons was awful and will never forget the way he and Tony looked at each like they had just fucked in a dressing room.  I thought NP was awful on True Blood and The Originals too.  Maybe Tony can get him a job in Amsterdam.  

[HeatLifer]

I watched that entire clip just to see if I could.

[ulkis]

Why did I watch the beginning of this, with Kiki cuddling Avery and saying if Michael really lvoed Avery he'd let her stay with the people who have cared and love her her whole life, and then the camera panned to those two degenerates and their coddled yet neglected man-child

all 4 needed to be thrown out a window right then and there.

[dubbel zout]

I cry for that Michael to return.

[HeatLifer]

That whole clip was disgusting. I will forever be sad that Michael will never be free of them. Robin tried, darling!

[LeftPhalange]

Michael should have shot Sonny, Ava, and Kiki in the face repeatedly. Missed opportunity.