GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[UYI]

57 minutes ago, coffee drinker said:

At least McTavish had the presence of mind to not write in Becky's pregnancy. 

 

The fact that Liz was barely out of high school at the time was probably the deciding factor there. 

(Becky herself was 24 that year.)

36 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I don't think Zander was a favored male.

I think writing in Cameron wasn't a bad idea. I remember it helped a lot of people move past seeing Liz as a teen.

Did Ric & Liz come across as skeevy to anyone in the early years because of the age difference/just how young Becky looked back then? 

Edited May 26, 2016 by UYI

[ulkis]

21 minutes ago, UYI said:

Did Ric & Liz come across as skeevy to anyone in the early years because of the age difference/just how young Becky looked back then? 

I think I did see that but I also saw a lot of people say that it helped Liz seem like an adult too.

[coffee drinker]

3 hours ago, UYI said:

 

The fact that Liz was barely out of high school at the time was probably the deciding factor there. 

(Becky herself was 24 that year.)

Did Ric & Liz come across as skeevy to anyone in the early years because of the age difference/just how young Becky looked back then? 

Not to me.  I didn't think Becky looked like a teen with Rick.

Becky looked like a woman next to the teeny-bopper JJ, IMO.  Both she and Tyler looked the 5-7 years older that they were versus JJ and Amber.  

Did anyone question the large real life age difference between Kim and Steve during J&R?

Cause Kim is younger than Becky.  And Rick Hearst is only 4 years older than Steve.  Just saying.

[UYI]

6 minutes ago, coffee drinker said:

 

Did anyone question the large real life age difference between Kim and Steve during J&R?

 

 

Honestly, I probably would have. And the show initially did, too, because they scrapped the idea of putting them together in 1992/1993 because she was only 14/15 and looked even younger than that. 

I know Michael Sutton was even older than Steve, but he looked younger so I can see how it didn't look so weird. Still, there are times when I've watched clips of those two and she still looks like a 12 year old even though she 16 or 17. *shrug*

[HeatLifer]

I honestly don't remember people questioning the age of the actors in JnR. People mostly loved them. They were super popular.

[UYI]

1 minute ago, HeatLifer said:

I honestly don't remember people questioning the age of the actors in JnR. People mostly loved them. They were super popular.

 

I've asked this before, but were there any fans who found the way he left Keesha in bad taste, even with his brain damage? Even if she technically moved up with AJ, it's still a pretty dick move. 

[HeatLifer]

2 minutes ago, UYI said:

 

I've asked this before, but were there any fans who found the way he left Keesha in bad taste, even with his brain damage? Even if she technically moved up with AJ, it's still a pretty dick move. 

I mean, I don't want to speak for the audience back then, but from those I interacted with, no, Jason wasn't seen as an asshole for Keesha. And, yeah, the excuse was the brain damage. He wasn't the same person.

[ulkis]

I wasn't watching then, but I think yours is the general opinion Heatlifer, although I have seen some people comment on how the show treated Keesha.

Edited May 26, 2016 by ulkis

[UYI]

5 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I mean, I don't want to speak for the audience back then, but from those I interacted with, no, Jason wasn't seen as an asshole for Keesha. And, yeah, the excuse was the brain damage. He wasn't the same person.

Did Keesha get along with Robin, or show any jealousy towards her about it? It just seems like Keesha got thrown under the bus big time. 

[HeatLifer]

2 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I wasn't watching then, but I think yours is the general opinion Heatlifer, although I have seen some people comment on how the show treated Keesha.

Oh, I'm sure people had that opinion, especially in present day. But soaps were just....different back then. Viewers were different back then. Social media and the internet honestly did change a lot of things. For example, I don't know if Jason/Keesha/Robin would have worked today. You'd have people shouting that "he HAS to remember being a Q. and remember Keesha....it doesn't make sense!"

[ulkis]

the comments I've seen were more about how it was the show shoving the black girl to the side, not that he had to remember just cause that's the way it worked.

[HeatLifer]

2 minutes ago, ulkis said:

the comments I've seen were more about how it was the show shoving the black girl to the side, not that he had to remember just cause that's the way it worked.

Oh, well, that's a whole other conversation. And that's been a problem with TV in general for decades.

Edited May 26, 2016 by HeatLifer

[HeatLifer]

9 minutes ago, UYI said:

Did Keesha get along with Robin, or show any jealousy towards her about it? It just seems like Keesha got thrown under the bus big time. 

Keesha was more devastated that Jason was a completely different person than having an issue with Robin.

[UYI]

30 minutes ago, ulkis said:

the comments I've seen were more about how it was the show shoving the black girl to the side, not that he had to remember just cause that's the way it worked.

 

Yeah, that's part of what I was thinking about. I could see that factor making people VERY uncomfortable.

Of course, the fact that Jason and AJ were technically her biological cousins makes me uncomfortable, too, sooo...:P 

[coffee drinker]

46 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I honestly don't remember people questioning the age of the actors in JnR. People mostly loved them. They were super popular.

Let me be the first then.  I thought she looked more JJ's speed.  Everyone complained about the pixie haircut making her look super young at the time.  

[UYI]

YMMV, but looking at some of those pictures of her with the shorter haircut in 1998/1999, I actually thought it aged her a bit. I didn't LIKE that haircut, but that's neither here nor there. 

[ulkis]

3 minutes ago, UYI said:

Of course, the fact that Jason and AJ were technically her biological cousins makes me uncomfortable, too, sooo...:P 

Yeah, that part is weird. But apparently that's always been a Q thing! :side-eyes Celia and Jimmy Lee: But then, they are supposed to be snooty, and snooty people often married their cousins, so, it's not like it's totally weird no one commented on it.

[HeatLifer]

3 minutes ago, coffee drinker said:

Let me be the first then.  I thought she looked more JJ's speed.  Everyone complained about the pixie haircut making her look super young at the time.  

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that KMc didn't look young. She did! She had a baby face. But there wasn't this large group of people saying that Jason and Robin shouldn't be paired bc of it. 

[ulkis]

5 minutes ago, UYI said:

YMMV, but looking at some of those pictures of her with the shorter haircut in 1998/1999, I actually thought it aged her a bit. I didn't LIKE that haircut, but that's neither here nor there. 

Here's a really great source for what fans were talking about from 98-2002

http://www.mcamy.net/ghreview/index2.html

[coffee drinker]

8 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that KMc didn't look young. She did! She had a baby face. But there wasn't this large group of people saying that Jason and Robin shouldn't be paired bc of it. 

Not trying to be picky, but was there some large group of people saying Liz shouldn't be paired with Ric because she looked young?  

I thought J&R were dumb because she crushed on him before the head injury and he only gave her the time of day after his memory was wiped clean.  And she lead him around by the nose, imo.

I like Kim/Robin, but I had zero use for J&R.  

[HeatLifer]

2 minutes ago, coffee drinker said:

Not trying to be picky, but was there some large group of people saying Liz shouldn't be paired with Ric because she looked young?  

I thought J&R were dumb because she crushed on him before the head injury and he only gave her the time of day after his memory was wiped clean.  And she lead him around by the nose, imo.

I like Kim/Robin, but I had zero use for J&R.  

I don't recall age being the prevalent discussion when it came to Liz/Ric.

And whether JnR worked for you or anyone else is another debate. We all like what we like. I was just commenting on the "young" issue.

[Ladybyrd]

55 minutes ago, UYI said:

 

Yeah, that's part of what I was thinking about. I could see that factor making people VERY uncomfortable.

Of course, the fact that Jason and AJ were technically her biological cousins makes me uncomfortable, too, sooo...:P 

I might be off on this, but I don't think they were cousins. Justis was a cousin to both of them, which gets confusing, but I think they made a point of making Justis the only child of Bradley Ward (Mary Mae's son with Edward) so that Kesha (whose grandfather was Mary Mae's husband) would be free to date the Q boys.

[Asp Burger]

I never liked Liric, but I don't think the age difference was part of my problem. I've thought Ric was a horribly conceived character from the start, and the neediness with which Hearst invested him didn't help. When people write that a particular character makes their flesh crawl, that's how I felt about Ric Lansing. The very obvious dark dye job with the pale skin, the voice, the pretending to hate Sonny while acting as though sleeping with him would be the answer to his prayers...I just couldn't tolerate him. So it wasn't a good period for me when he was paired consecutively with two female characters I generally like, Liz and Alexis. To me, it showed that those two characters/actresses were low on the totem pole. They got the Cliff Barnes-esque loser.  

Re: Zander. His fans were of the few contingents who might have had fond memories of the Megan McTavish year. He got some of his most gratifying writing and characterization under her. Except for a brief visit early in the year, 2001 was a non-Burton/Jason year, and Brannon/Zander moved into the spot of Sonny's male talk-to and principal helper (among the significant characters; I'm not counting tertiary goons like the Scott Egan character named Johnny). This meant Zander collaborated in the kidnapping/meat hook episode (bad), but he also was portrayed as capable and trying to better himself. He was not weak and unstable, which he immediately became when Guza returned. He had strong relationships with Alexis, Ned, and other characters too.  

Gia fans also might have enjoyed the McTavish year. McTavish really seemed behind the pairing of Gia and Nikolas as played by the actor who has changed his name so many times that I'm not sure what to call him. He was going by Coltin Scott at that time. I hated them, though, so it wasn't a plus for me.  

Edited May 26, 2016 by Asp Burger

[ulkis]

49 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

I never liked Liric, but I don't think the age difference was part of my problem. I've thought Ric was a horribly conceived character from the start, and the neediness with which Hearst invested him didn't help. When people write that a particular character makes their flesh crawl, that's how I felt about Ric Lansing. The very obvious dark dye job with the pale skin, the voice, the pretending to hate Sonny while acting as though sleeping with him would be the answer to his prayers...I just couldn't tolerate him. So it wasn't a good period for me when he was paired consecutively with two female characters I generally like, Liz and Alexis. To me, it showed that those two characters/actresses were low on the totem pole. They got the Cliff Barnes-esque loser.

You and me are likethis re: Ric. I do think he and Liz had chemistry though, but that wasn't enough for me to like him.

[Oracle42]

I don't think I ever liked Ric. He was unstable almost all of the time, but I loved what RH was able to do with the character and he fact that he invested him with so many layers. The Panic Room story should not have been survivable for the character and Liz/Ric shouldn't have remained even remotely viable and I think the fact that Ric wasn't killed or written out was kind of an acknowledgement of how damn good RH was at making Ric more than a one note villain/loser.

Of course, we also had better writing then than we did when he came back and was gaslighting Nina for reasons.

[Lobsel Vith]

58 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

I don't think I ever liked Ric. He was unstable almost all of the time, but I loved what RH was able to do with the character and he fact that he invested him with so many layers. The Panic Room story should not have been survivable for the character and Liz/Ric shouldn't have remained even remotely viable and I think the fact that Ric wasn't killed or written out was kind of an acknowledgement of how damn good RH was at making Ric more than a one note villain/loser.

Of course, we also had better writing then than we did when he came back and was gaslighting Nina for reasons.

I think RH deserves all the credit for anyone even liking Ric, despite what the character has done. 'Tricking' Nina with his phone playing the sound of a baby crying was beyond ridiculous, though, but none of the writers ever seemed to like the character of Ric. He's pretty much the present day Zander - used as a plot device and little else.

[UYI]

5 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

I never liked Liric, but I don't think the age difference was part of my problem. I've thought Ric was a horribly conceived character from the start, and the neediness with which Hearst invested him didn't help. When people write that a particular character makes their flesh crawl, that's how I felt about Ric Lansing. The very obvious dark dye job with the pale skin, the voice, the pretending to hate Sonny while acting as though sleeping with him would be the answer to his prayers...I just couldn't tolerate him. So it wasn't a good period for me when he was paired consecutively with two female characters I generally like, Liz and Alexis. To me, it showed that those two characters/actresses were low on the totem pole. They got the Cliff Barnes-esque loser.  

Re: Zander. His fans were of the few contingents who might have had fond memories of the Megan McTavish year. He got some of his most gratifying writing and characterization under her. Except for a brief visit early in the year, 2001 was a non-Burton/Jason year, and Brannon/Zander moved into the spot of Sonny's male talk-to and principal helper (among the significant characters; I'm not counting tertiary goons like the Scott Egan character named Johnny). This meant Zander collaborated in the kidnapping/meat hook episode (bad), but he also was portrayed as capable and trying to better himself. He was not weak and unstable, which he immediately became when Guza returned. He had strong relationships with Alexis, Ned, and other characters too.  

Gia fans also might have enjoyed the McTavish year. McTavish really seemed behind the pairing of Gia and Nikolas as played by the actor who has changed his name so many times that I'm not sure what to call him. He was going by Coltin Scott at that time. I hated them, though, so it wasn't a plus for me.  

Skye & Jax fans probably loved that year, too (well, duh, McTavish created that couple), especially Jax fans. He finally had a woman without the risk of losing her to Sonny! 

Edited May 27, 2016 by UYI

[Asp Burger]

Eight years earlier, Liz delivered her own version of the "rutting like farm animals" speech.  

[Chairperson Meow]

22 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Keesha was more devastated that Jason was a completely different person than having an issue with Robin.

I thought Jason was a dick.   And I liked AJ/Keesha and Jason/Robin.   It was just dick.   Jason Morgan was a dick to his family and a spoiled brat.  He is okay at moments now, but has been a dick for years.  I hate how everyone always kowtowed to him.  I also hate how his memory seems to come and go.  Like, dude has multiple brain injuries, yet always goes and puts himself in danger.  He's dumb.  

[ulkis]

The former twop thread, for those who want to double check if so and so really said that back when ;)

http://web.archive.org/web/20140329203751/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2979889-general-hospital/

[Chairperson Meow]

3 hours ago, ulkis said:

The former twop thread, for those who want to double check if so and so really said that back when ;)

http://web.archive.org/web/20140329203751/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2979889-general-hospital/

OMG!!!!!   The memories!   I want to shoot you in the head while you give birth for posting this.  I've missed "slagbeast".  I'm crying like I just dumped my significant other while I was in an institution and then saw them making out with a Quartermaine at the Nurse's Ball.  I'm not alone anymore.   

[Chairperson Meow]

FYI, I'm on page 5 and everyone really, really loved the guy playing Zander.  Like a lot.  There are many mentions of dreaming that maybe one day things will get better if Frons leaves, Ted King being wronged.   Lol and RoHo was way more appreciated, as he gets name dropped in the GH thread.  

[Oracle42]

I still like RoHo and I loved the way PP wrote Todd. I loathe Franco as a contract character on GH

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Chairperson Meow said:

FYI, I'm on page 5 and everyone really, really loved the guy playing Zander

Definitely liked Chad Brannon. He and Lane Davies, who played his dad, Cameron, Sr., really got a raw deal. I'm just glad, even with the Nem bus running Zander over - back and forth - for ages, along with a dollop of LiRic shitting on him and having his great relationship with Alexis ruined because of stupid-assed Nik, that CB still got an Emmy out of the deal. Even if Daytime Emmys are as important as a Cracker Jacks prize.

But it showed that, even if ruined for faves, CB got a nice consolation prize out of it.

Gee, can you tell the ruination of Zander Smith still pisses me off, a little?!

[Chairperson Meow]

Lol.  It's literally all over the place.  Oh, we were so hopeful.   We really thought if Steve Burton left that it'd get better.   Then we thought if Frons left it'd get better.  We had so much hope, guys.  And we kept getting shit on.  My fav line so far is a complaint about Sonny.  I'm paraphrasing here, ..."With his wife beater tank tops that are now a literal statement.".   Beautiful.   That was right after Bullet of Love btw and lamenting on the loss of Zarly and the misuses of Lane Davies, Zander, and Ted King.  

[ulkis]

Although come to that, it did get better at least for a little while after SB left. So at least there was that shining moment.

[Chairperson Meow]

We did have that brief great moment when SK returned and was telling the truth all over town, just not giving a care about Sonny or Carly.  Then Michael calling Sonny and Carly out on it was beautiful.   Carly stammering "Bu- but but"  And having to explain that she slept with her mother's husband!   And the shit eating grin from SK when Sonny visited AJ in jail.  Aw, good times.  It was worth the wait tbh because while I like Billy Warlock, I needed SK in those scenes because they required this certain something in them that his AJ didn't have.  Plus,  SK has a chemistry with LW and CD that's awesome.   I also loved Michael walking in on Sonny holding Connie captive "for her own good" and realizing that AJ was absolutely telling the truth about the meat hook.  CD sold the horror on Michael's face beautifully.   

[Chairperson Meow]

6 hours ago, ulkis said:

Although come to that, it did get better at least for a little while after SB left. So at least there was that shining moment.

I started skipping ahead to the last pages to see what we wrote, and you apparently wrote a story where McBain is Dr. O's son.  I would love to see that.  You called it fiction and were horrified to learn Nathan was her actual son.  You also said that you loved the original Franco stuff.  But consistently, no one ever liked Roger Howarth as Franco.  Names he was referred to "Link from Zelda", " Emo Franco".   We also speculated on who he'd return as.  We were dead wrong.  

Oh and to settle the Keesha thing.  She is referred to as "Poor Keesha" throughout six pages, so I think Keesha was sympathized with.  No one hated Robin though.  But universally thought Jason was a dick and that the show dropped Keesha.  

[Tiger]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Definitely liked Chad Brannon. He and Lane Davies, who played his dad, Cameron, Sr., really got a raw deal. I'm just glad, even with the Nem bus running Zander over - back and forth - for ages, along with a dollop of LiRic shitting on him and having his great relationship with Alexis ruined because of stupid-assed Nik, that CB still got an Emmy out of the deal. Even if Daytime Emmys are as important as a Cracker Jacks prize.

But it showed that, even if ruined for faves, CB got a nice consolation prize out of it.

Gee, can you tell the ruination of Zander Smith still pisses me off, a little?!

I thought Chad sparked with Becky, Amber, Natalia, Tamara, and Robyn, and had major chem with Nancy and Lane too.  

He was the second coming of Vanessa Marcil in the sense that he had chemistry with everyone.

ETA: While I wish they had kept the intended son-of-Alexis backstory, at the least the back story with having killed his brother and run away actually made sense and wasn't a convoluted mess like many changed-backstories are.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Tiger

[peachmangosteen]

The scene where Zander/Maxie dance in her bedroom is one of the only things about GH that really sticks in my mind. CB was fantastic. I loved Zander. Ugh now my rage over his destruction is boiling back up.

Edited May 30, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[Asp Burger]

From the episode thread:  

Mikey Webber joke?

Other Michael. You probably remember this, ulkis, but for the benefit of new viewers: Carly walked in on Sonny/Alexis in bed, freaked out and made a beeline for Zander's place, climbed in bed with him and got rejected. Then she drove off a cliff and was presumed dead for a while. While the whole town was in mourning (I pause to laugh hysterically), Michael claimed he had seen his mommy; she had visited him in the backyard and she was wearing a crown. Everyone's reaction to that was "Oh, poor little crazy Michael." They didn't take it very seriously.   

Then Carly showed up at her own funeral and acted all disoriented, and everyone kissed her ass. It came out later that she had faked her death. Maybe the accident was genuine, but she had stayed away on purpose and let everyone worry. Jason investigated and found that she had been suckin' on chili dogs outside the Tastee Freeze in another town.

Of course, she completely skated. I think Jason and Sonny were the only people who ever learned of her deception, and although it was initially played as if it were going to be a big deal when Sonny found out, it wasn't. That was a story started by McTavish and "completed" (i.e., swept under the rug) by Guza/Pratt in the writing hand-off. The mystery of Carly's visit to Michael and why on earth she would have been wearing a crown...dropped.  

[ulkis]

Oh, that I actually did not remember. I was watching on and off during the time. And that stuff was partly why, heh. 

[Chairperson Meow]

I am actually not surprised at Carly doing any of that.  Faking her death over seeing Sonny in bed with Alexis and then getting rejected by guy of the moment to visit Michael in the backyard wearing a crown is more in character for Carly than dating Franco.  I won't even question the crown.  It also makes more sense than her not rushing to Lucas's bedside or Bobbie's when hearing that Lucas took Bobbie to the hospital at the Ball.  She had her reasons for the crown.  

[Ambrosefolly]

2 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

From the episode thread:  

 

 

Other Michael. You probably remember this, ulkis, but for the benefit of new viewers: Carly walked in on Sonny/Alexis in bed, freaked out and made a beeline for Zander's place, climbed in bed with him and got rejected. Then she drove off a cliff and was presumed dead for a while. While the whole town was in mourning (I pause to laugh hysterically), Michael claimed he had seen his mommy; she had visited him in the backyard and she was wearing a crown. Everyone's reaction to that was "Oh, poor little crazy Michael." They didn't take it very seriously.   

Then Carly showed up at her own funeral and acted all disoriented, and everyone kissed her ass. It came out later that she had faked her death. Maybe the accident was genuine, but she had stayed away on purpose and let everyone worry. Jason investigated and found that she had been suckin' on chili dogs outside the Tastee Freeze in another town.

Of course, she completely skated. I think Jason and Sonny were the only people who ever learned of her deception, and although it was initially played as if it were going to be a big deal when Sonny found out, it wasn't. That was a story started by McTavish and "completed" (i.e., swept under the rug) by Guza/Pratt in the writing hand-off. The mystery of Carly's visit to Michael and why on earth she would have been wearing a crown...dropped.  

Wasn't it still All!AJ's!Fault? 

[Chairperson Meow]

23 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Wasn't it still All!AJ's!Fault? 

Everything is.  I can say this confidently without remembering the story.  

[jsbt]

I thought the Carly's fake death story was fairly well done. You could tell that it was when Guza's crew came back because the writing and sophistication in dialogue and character changed almost overnight from the hackwork Megan McTavish, Jill and co. were putting out. I don't remember the denouement with her faking it and A.J. somehow being involved (I'm pretty sure he was too), but IIRC Sonny immediately forgave her. I believe Guza had taken a shine to the recast and decided to cement Tamara Braun as a star, which he did. For awhile.

There was also an absolutely vicious scene where Alexis - Guza's creation and at that time still a point of pride for him, though not for much longer - skewered a fantasy version of herself, which was basically the stammering, sexually neurotic caricature Megan's writing had made her into. It was very, very pointed about what had been done to the character. It didn't last, though; Alexis became all those things repeatedly over the next decade-plus and often still is today.

I was pretty hyped about Guza's return; I thought he had done a lot of great work in his first stint and I thought many of the new stories had real promise. I was not yet on total S&C overload (I'd loved them with Sarah in the role and was warming to Tamara) and while I liked Kristina Sr. I thought her death was a great catalyst for story. I liked Brenda's return despite hating Brenda at the time, I thought it was very well-done and IIRC tied directly into her brief cameo when Jax left the show in 1999 or 2000(?). And I liked the initial setup of the Laura/Rick attic mystery, which had roots in the show's history. That it became almost a thinly veiled remake of Chuck Pratt's story about Alison's molestation on Melrose Place is unfortunate; they trashed Laura. Supposedly they or someone (Guza solo?) had had bigger plans for that story and for Rick, the hospital, etc. but it never emerged.

Edited June 5, 2016 by jsbt

[dubbel zout]

26 minutes ago, jsbt said:

the initial setup of the Laura/Rick attic mystery

Ugh, I'll never understand why it turned into that horror show. It didn't do anyone any favors.

[nilyank]

Quote

Wasn't it still All!AJ's!Fault? 

Guza had AJ take advantage of Carly disappearance. There was actually a dead woman found in the lake and AJ paid off her family and coroner to say that it was actually Carly. He did it to go after custody of Michael. Luke figured it out with some other people that I can't remember.

[peachmangosteen]

A couple days ago I was bored and decided to look up Carly/Jax clips since I wasn't watching when they were a thing/Jax is returning/people love them. I only watched a couple but I wasn't feeling them. Anyway, it lead me down an AJ/LW's Carly spiral and ugh so much wasted potential there.

This is SO good! LW is in no way insufferable in these scenes it's a miracle! "Only you could take all the fun out of a revenge rant," is just a fantastic line and SK's reading just elevates it even more.

Edited June 5, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[UYI]

Okay, sorry, but a crown? Like a Burger King crown?