GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[dubbel zout]

That was priceless.

[HeatLifer]

17 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

That was priceless.

His face was epic. He knows. Steve was always straight up about when he thought the show was good and when he was on his A-game.

[HeatLifer]

38 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

If Jason really had all of his memories, he would know that Elizabeth still had issues with what Sam did to Jake when they had scenes at Jake's in 2012.  Jake Doe was furious that Elizabeth kept him from his "wife and son", but we're supposed to believe that Jake Doe / Jason Morgan would NOT be really disgusted at what Sam did to Jake in 2007.  

I really don't expect for the show to ever address any of the items in my first post, because of backstage agenda's not allowing for organic storytelling.  

I mean, on every show there are staple couples, right? Is that backstage agenda? I dunno what you'd call it. But TPTB decided long ago that JaSam are "the couple." Probably "officially" in 2009. And I'm saying that as an outsider, I really am. I couldn't care less about Jason and anyone. But Sam is not going to look bad in comparison to Liz (or in comparison to anyone anymore) at this point in the show. Jason won't choose Liz over Sam. Unless Sam/KeMo leaves GH, it is what it is. So I don't have expectations for Sam's past or present to have a lasting effect on Jason.

[Oracle42]

I think [caveat]with good to decent writers[/HUGE caveat] there was some legitimate story potential in Jason learning about SOS before he got his memories back. Personally, I'd have been much more interested in Molly/Kristina's reactions to learning that Sam blew up their lives to get back at Alexis. Jason forgave her once, he'd probably do it again - but the Coven would rupture and those relationships could suffer some permanent damage. 

But these script writers (lookin' at you Sickles!) are shitty, the HWs are allergic to drama and FV would give it five minutes every two weeks and insist that Nina be randomly involved

Edited October 17, 2016 by Oracle42

[HeatLifer]

3 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

there was some legitimate story potential in Jason learning about SOS before he got his memories back.

What would that be, though? Jason got over it. He married her. Unless Jake Doe was going to be disgusted with JASON MORGAN and his own choices, what does it matter what Sam did? He'd be a hypocrite.

[Oracle42]

For me, most if not all of the story potential would have been with Sam and her sisters but I do think it would have been a good opportunity for the writers to connect BM's Jason to SBu Jason's history.

15 hours ago, Darklazr said:

 I find it laughable that some SamFF and JaSam fans think Sam has matured since 2007, which is EASY to do when your past has never been outed and you ended up back with Jason Morgan!

 I'd argue that Sam did mature from 2006 to 2009 which was one of the reasons Jason/Sam reunited. And everyone that she knew and cared about at the time did find out what she'd done. The only people who probably/possibly don't know? Kristina/Molly. And with these writers, they probably found out offscreen last year and didn't care enough to mention it

Edited October 17, 2016 by Oracle42

[HeatLifer]

3 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

For me, most if not all of the story potential would have been with Sam and her sisters but I do think it would have been a good opportunity for the writers to connect BM's Jason to SBu Jason's history.

I'm torn. This isn't directed at you or anyone specific, but I'm so tired of Jason's "history" being specifically linked to Sam/Liz and that time period. There was so much more to explore in the character than that romantic triangle that had stretched for far too long.

[Oracle42]

Well, you know the story I wanted - and it had nothing to do with the SOS, but BM is so disconnected from this character that I'd take just about anything at this point. Plus, Sam is his wife - I do think that acknowledging their history is important. It's obviously not the only important thing, the man had two lifetimes before he even met her - but it does matter.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Oracle42

[HeatLifer]

11 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Well, you know the story I wanted - and it had nothing to do with the SOS, but BM is so disconnected from this character that I'd take just about anything at this point

Well, I don't know what will help BM become engaged with the character or story. I'm still wondering if he ever sat down and truly learned about the character or if Frank/Ron were just like "Let's do Titanic and Taylor Swift references for giggles!"

Edited October 17, 2016 by HeatLifer

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, Vella said:

No evil Liz ... Six months of story to sort through where nobody is really the BAD EVUL. 

Moving my response to the Liz thread because it makes more sense there.

Edited October 17, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[Chairperson Meow]

19 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Well, I don't know what will help BM become engaged with the character or story. I'm still wondering if he ever sat down and truly learned about the character or if Frank/Ron were just like "Let's do Titanic and Taylor Swift references for giggles!"

I believe he specifically said in an interview that he actually told SBu that he was not going to watch his Jason because he didn't want to do an imitation of him on GH.  He was also told that Jason was "very different" than SBu's Jason.  I think this was his first Michael Fairman interview?   It was a while back, but I vaguely recall reading that.   I remember that because it sounded like he literally didn't know what character he was actually playing because he wasn't really hired to play Jason, but he was.   I think he was given freedom to just be "charming" with Jake Doe if that makes sense.  Which I'll be honest, his scenes with RH were adorable.  They sparkled.  

[dubbel zout]

I don't think he has to watch SBu's version of Jason, but it'd be nice if he understood the relationships Jason has with people in PC, especially now that he ostensibly has his memory back. That might help him look more engaged in his scenes if I knew he knew who he was talking to.

[HeatLifer]

52 minutes ago, Chairperson Meow said:

I believe he specifically said in an interview that he actually told SBu that he was not going to watch his Jason because he didn't want to do an imitation of him on GH.  He was also told that Jason was "very different" than SBu's Jason.  I think this was his first Michael Fairman interview?   It was a while back, but I vaguely recall reading that.   I remember that because it sounded like he literally didn't know what character he was actually playing because he wasn't really hired to play Jason, but he was.   I think he was given freedom to just be "charming" with Jake Doe if that makes sense.  Which I'll be honest, his scenes with RH were adorable.  They sparkled.  

All I know is several actors insinuated that BM didn't want to play Jake Doe. So WTF did he want to play if he didn't want to research JM either!?!?? 

I'm ok.

[ulkis]

47 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

All I know is several actors insinuated that BM didn't want to play Jake Doe. So WTF did he want to play if he didn't want to research JM either!?!?? 

I'm ok.

He and Easton should switch roles. I bet Easton would welcome a return to the stoic type and BM could do all the quirks naturally!

[KerleyQ]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't think he has to watch SBu's version of Jason, but it'd be nice if he understood the relationships Jason has with people in PC, especially now that he ostensibly has his memory back. That might help him look more engaged in his scenes if I knew he knew who he was talking to.

His current portrayal would be OK if they had some acknowledgement from him that, while he remembers everything, he doesn't feel a particular connection to some of his memories at this time.  In current story line, that could have us seeing a scene between him and Sam where he explains that, part of the reason he encouraged Carly to go back to Sonny and mourn with him was because he still doesn't fully feel his previous role in their family, so he feels like that was the best way he could support her - by sending her to someone who he thinks feels this all as deeply as she does.  

[HeatLifer]

32 minutes ago, ulkis said:

BM could do all the quirks naturally!

No! I realized part of the reason I liked the Jason/Carly scenes today was because LW wasn't laughing and BM wasn't baby-talking.

[dubbel zout]

17 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

His current portrayal would be OK if they had some acknowledgement from him that, while he remembers everything, he doesn't feel a particular connection to some of his memories at this time.

That's the problem, yes. There's no acknowledgement of a connection or a lack thereof.

[HeatLifer]

4 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

That's the problem, yes. There's no acknowledgement of a connection or a lack thereof.

Because he has his memories back now. At least they've played it twice in the last few episodes with him remembering Morgan's birth and Carly talking to him about naming Morgan after him. I think he played it as "connected" in those moments.

Edited October 18, 2016 by HeatLifer

[KerleyQ]

31 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

That's the problem, yes. There's no acknowledgement of a connection or a lack thereof.

It's weird that we're not getting an acknowledgement of that, because isn't that same situation how we got Jason Morgan anyway?  He eventually recovered his Jason Q memories, but he never really felt fully connected to those memories.  So it would make sense for the show to acknowledge that it was happening to him again - that he remembers all of this stuff, but he hasn't really found that connection to some parts of his old life.  (And this is where him having more scenes with Monica would work, or maybe some scenes with Robin the next time Kim pops in for a couple days.  They are the ones who had relationships with him as Jason Q and Jason M, so they'd recognize some of the similarities.) 

[Oracle42]

Having moments of connectedness and tripping over holes in his memory  would make so much more sense 

[Chairperson Meow]

2 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

All I know is several actors insinuated that BM didn't want to play Jake Doe. So WTF did he want to play if he didn't want to research JM either!?!?? 

I'm ok.

I think him not wanting to see SBu portraying Jason was more or less about not wanting to imitate SBu's take on the role of Jason and wanting to bring his own interpretation to the role.  From what I've pieced together from various interviews, it seems like he was told that he was going to be playing this Jason Morgan that had a fusion of Quartermaine and Morgan memories- notice how he literally comes alive during the scenes when Jason breaks through the brainwashing (it's literally the only times he's allowed to act in the style he seems comfortable in)-  but then the new writers and/or RC getting fired may have imo had something to do with the reveal being dropped and/or changed completely and Jason just got his memories back in an episode.  Why do I think this?  The writing seems obvious.  A lot of viewers blame the actor, but he's playing what he's given.  I think what he is doing now is what he did not want to do initially- an imitation of SBu.  I think FV or someone literally saw SBu's last decade or so and is now directing BM to be more like that because that's literally how it translates down to the wardrobe and it's not working because it wasn't working with the original actor.  It's the writing.  The only reason GH lasted so long was because the writing wasn't total crap and now that's gone. 

[HeatLifer]

43 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

And this is where him having more scenes with Monica would work, or maybe some scenes with Robin the next time Kim pops in for a couple days.  They are the ones who had relationships with him as Jason Q and Jason M, so they'd recognize some of the similarities.) 

I actually liked how they handled the Jason/Robin scenes on the bridge. She treated him like a new person, with no expectation that he was the Jason Morgan from before. He even told her that he was different now and no one understood that. But she did, because like Monica, she lived through that change. 

They really should have played out that longer and acknowledged that Jason remembers, but he's still different.

[nilyank]

Spoiler

 He eventually recovered his Jason Q memories, but he never really felt fully connected to those memories. 

Jason never did recover his Jason Q memories. His family filled in a lot of the blanks but he never recovered them himself.

[jsbt]

6 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

They really should have played out that longer and acknowledged that Jason remembers, but he's still different.

That is the current cornerstone of the character, IMO. He is closer and warmer to different people. He feels and thinks differently. After decades of Jason Morgan, that is huge.

Instead it's tossed off. They have never dealt with it. And it sucks because it should be the driving force of the character and his current story, on many levels, from the personal to the professional and his past sins. Miller can play it and it can be written, well. I'm sure the actors are at least somewhat frustrated and confused, Miller included. It seems all the production cares about is they have a dude named "Jason" in a black shirt who is paired with Kelly Monaco to hook the viewers, and to play foil to Roger Howarth, Laura Wright and occasionally Maurice Benard. There is basically no other thought put into the character now.

[UYI]

7 hours ago, nilyank said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 He eventually recovered his Jason Q memories, but he never really felt fully connected to those memories. 

Jason never did recover his Jason Q memories. His family filled in a lot of the blanks but he never recovered them himself.

I was going to say, I didn't think he ever wound truly getting his memory back, because what he had was brain damage, not amnesia. Doug Marland wrote a similar story on ATWT in 1991, when Holden was mugged in NYC. The whole point was that Holden's character had permanent brain damage--he would never really remember his old life, nor did he have any real desire to. The only reason Holden wound up getting his memories/old personality back is because Doug Marland had passed away in 1993, and despite the respect ATWT fans had for him and his vision, they were happy when future writers just had Holden become himself again.

What happened with Jason Morgan is basically what would have happened with Holden had Marland's vision prevailed. Well, that, and Guza indulging on his man crush for Steve Burton. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by UYI

[KerleyQ]

7 hours ago, nilyank said:

  Hide contents

 He eventually recovered his Jason Q memories, but he never really felt fully connected to those memories. 

Jason never did recover his Jason Q memories. His family filled in a lot of the blanks but he never recovered them himself.

I could swear I remember him getting memories back.  Maybe I'm thinking of something else.  Wasn't there some point where he was able to do something medical that Jason Q knew how to do?  

[dubbel zout]

Didn't he perform a tracheotomy on Nik at Luke's nightclub? Even back then, the Jason Q stuff was sort of plot pointy.

[HeatLifer]

Jason Morgan didn't actually recover JQ memories or remember specific people, but he would randomly *know* certain things, if that makes sense. He knew details about HIV/AIDS, he knew how to speak French, he understood medical journals, he performed CPR, he performed a tracheotomy on Nik. 

It wasn't plot pointy, it was actually part of his character in the beginning.

[dubbel zout]

It was plot pointy in that he remembered the right thing at the right time. It's not as if seeing someone cut a steak made him think, "Hey, that's similar to a tracheotomy!" 

[Cheyanne11]

19 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

I actually liked how they handled the Jason/Robin scenes on the bridge. She treated him like a new person, with no expectation that he was the Jason Morgan from before. He even told her that he was different now and no one understood that. But she did, because like Monica, she lived through that change. 

They really should have played out that longer and acknowledged that Jason remembers, but he's still different.

For me, those were some of BM's strongest scenes and the few where I felt a connection to the character's past as Jason Morgan.  And I didn't want to see it, but he and KMc had great chemistry.

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

For me, those were some of BM's strongest scenes and the few where I felt a connection to the character's past as Jason Morgan.  And I didn't want to see it, but he and KMc had great chemistry.

I thought the scenes were extremely well-written, too, and included a lot of callbacks to their early days (Robin smiling and asking why he chose the bridge and he said he liked the view and then Jason calling himself an idiot for not choosing her). BM and KMc were really engaged. It was fun to watch. The show has done such a good job with that relationship.

[Chairperson Meow]

4 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

I thought the scenes were extremely well-written, too, and included a lot of callbacks to their early days (Robin smiling and asking why he chose the bridge and he said he liked the view and then Jason calling himself an idiot for not choosing her). BM and KMc were really engaged. It was fun to watch. The show has done such a good job with that relationship.

I hate to say it, but that's where it sucks that they lost Ron.  He had his bad points, definitely.  (SK is never, was never ever fat.)  But he could write a good build up.   He would've written Jason actually remembering his past a lot better imo.   And it sure as hell wouldn't have been in a day, nor with Dante of all people.  Like, wtf is Jason doing chilling with Dante?  Dude, you wanted him dead at one point.  He wanted to arrest you many times.  You're not friends.  I mean, I dig the BM/DZ bromance chemistry.  It's probably my favorite couple on the show besides Anna/Dante/Nathan or Julian/Jordan, but still.  Jason should be buddying up to Michael if anyone.  I can see being indifferent/pissed at Sonny.  Jason wouldn't be happy about Sonny killing AJ.  Carly could probably cry and beg and spin some story, but Sonny?  No.  And Jason would've just straight up killed Franco on site.  No questions, no words.  Just finished what he started.  Especially when he learned that Danny was his son, and that Franco spilled the beans about Sonny killing AJ- because it hurt Michael.  After learning that once again Franco dared to hurt Michael and used his family to do so, Jason would kill him.  Franco should be dead. 

[Melgaypet]

On 10/18/2016 at 9:43 PM, Chairperson Meow said:

Like, wtf is Jason doing chilling with Dante?  Dude, you wanted him dead at one point.  He wanted to arrest you many times.  You're not friends.  I mean, I dig the BM/DZ bromance chemistry.

Seriously. Dante and Jason hated each other. Another reason Billy Miller should have been a recast Lucky.

[HeatLifer]

37 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Seriously. Dante and Jason hated each other. Another reason Billy Miller should have been a recast Lucky.

You and @ulkis. #NeverGiveUp

[ulkis]

Wrong thread.

Edited October 23, 2016 by ulkis

[Chairperson Meow]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

One day, many years from now, when I'm ready to audition for the part of Jason myself, will I admit Billy Miller was always Jason. :p

But how good are you at doing the following:

- staring at pill bottles

-crying

- crying while staring at pill bottles

- staring lovingly at DZ as you solve crimes in PC

- not being taller than DZ

- uttering the phrase "rutting like farm animals" and using it in a sentence

These are the important things one must know.

[ulkis]

nevermind

Edited October 21, 2016 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

4 hours ago, Darklazr said:

What happened to the curse?  Zip.  Nada.  What should have been a riveting story where Jake Doe regains all of his previous memories and has to deal with the fallout was swept under the carpet.  Jason should be torn between the life that he had with the mob lackey's, his Quartermaine roots and the life that he was building with Elizabeth and her boys.  But, we ended up with some BS where Jason and Sam don't even mention not being interested in each other romantically since BM took over the role.

I partly agree. I do think there should have been more focus on Jason and his past/present. I think the show should have finally had the balls to allow the character to remember his life as a Q and deal with the person he became. JQ wanted to be a DOCTOR. And he ended up as a KILLER. How do you not explore that?

It's difficult for me to talk about that story in a romantic sense because I realllllly was not interested in another round of Liz/Jason/Sam. In any form. It does none of them any favors, especially Liz, because she will never come out on top over Sam. And, more importantly, she will be made to look completely unhinged. This show could never handle a real triangle where both women were normal and the guy just had to say, "You know, you're both wonderful, but I love X more" and leave it at that. 

[UYI]

Alan & Monica try to send Emily to boarding school to keep her away from Zander, 2001. Amber wouldn't leave the show until a few months later, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfnyVuz5Ys

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, UYI said:

Alan & Monica try to send Emily to boarding school to keep her away from Zander, 2001.

That reminds me of Veronica Mars, when she told Logan, "You know, I'm not sure, but I think when they start shipping your girlfriends off, you are officially a bad boy."

[ulkis]

@HeatLifer

lol at Jason being slightly embarrassed at him and Sam kissing in front of Lucky and Dante.

[HeatLifer]

LOL. What was with that struggle fist!?

[ulkis]

10 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

LOL. What was with that struggle fist!?

Probably he was afraid that Dante and Lucky would think he wasn't cool because he kissed his hot girlfriend lol.

Edited October 31, 2016 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

8 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Probably he was afraid that Dante and Lucky would think he wasn't cool because he kissed his hot girlfriend lol.

I think he didn't want to upset his real love. Lucky. <3

[Oracle42]

The fact that I am even a little nostalgic for the Balkan is a clear indication of how bad the show is right now.

But, lookit!

- A lady doing a job! without any references to babies or embryos. 

- A non-gray set that doesn't look like painted cardboard!

- A nod to a relationship history that pre-dated RC! It was a nice little moment and it actually made sense!

- GH characters written in-character!!1!1!

- Plus, LUCKY and DUCKY 

[HeatLifer]

OMG, I KNOW.

WHAT.

IS.

HAPPENING.

[LeftPhalange]

The Balkin didn't even destroy Sleeves so what was the point?

Edited October 31, 2016 by LeftPhalange

[HeatLifer]

'90s Jason and Lucky were the SWEETEST boyfriends. They just don't write dudes like that anymore. Are TJ (who is never seen) and maaaaaybe Dillon if I squint my eyes the closest equivalents? So pathetic. 

[Lobsel Vith]

@movingtargetgal During the custody battle between Sonny and Carly, when Sonny took the children away from her (and even had her arrested at one point for holding baby Morgan), Lorenzo had Sonny's empty limo bombed during the custody court proceedings to get a verdict in Carly's favor; Lorenzo also went blind because of the limo explosion (presumably, he was very close by because he didn't want anyone to accidentally get hurt).

Lorenzo also gave Faith all his territory  in the United States to try and help her custody case.

When Carly found out the truth (she had Lorenzo as a captive as a result), she was upset, even though she coerced Alexis to be her attorney by threatening to reveal Kristina's paternity if she didn't.

Sonny demanded that she kill Lorenzo to prove herself (which I would argue was worse than what Lorenzo did since Lorenzo wasn't trying to kill anyone). The cops arrived, but Lorenzo didn't press any charges against anyone.

The Sam baby lie storyline followed (the storyline that eventually lead to Jason and Sam as a couple, where Jason pretended to be the father of Sam's child so that Carly wouldn't leave Sonny).

[movingtargetgal]

Thank you Lobsel Vith.  Did this all happen after Sonny shot Carly in the head while she was giving birth to Morgan?  I remember that was a time in my life that I was working 60 hours a week on 3 different shifts.  I barely had a sleep schedule never mind a soap watching schedule.