S05.E02: The Thing About Heroes

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

After a van explodes during a Chicago street festival, a Muslim patrol officer Frank Toma goes missing and evidence quickly piles up pointing to his involvement. Burgess - who helped train Toma - is desperate to prove his innocence, even if that means going against her superiors.

[bmoore4026]

Anyone else think this episode was a bit too soon after what happened in Vegas?

Also, what Burgess said to Toma's parents was ultimately hollow.  It doesn't matter if you know the truth when the press and history and the powers that be say otherwise.

And eeeeeeevil police lieutenant Woods is going to frame Voight for something.  I just know it.

[FnkyChkn34]

Not really? This was a terrorist bombing, and they were lying about the "hundreds" of people dying, so it was entirely different to me. If the story had involved a sniper or something, then maybe. 

IMO, the episode was just so so.  Love her or hate her, I miss Lindsey, and maybe for no other reason than just because Sophia Bush could act circles around this new blonde chick. I'm not impressed with either her or Marina yet this season. Stiff, wooden performances from the ladies so far. 

I also miss the chit chat and banter of them just sitting around the office. The break room hasn't been used as a set yet. I need just a minute or two of levity, and maybe a "welcome back, Antonio!" or a "how's your sister, Kim?" Why nothing?

[Elliebab]

3 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Anyone else think this episode was a bit too soon after what happened in Vegas?

Also, what Burgess said to Toma's parents was ultimately hollow.  It doesn't matter if you know the truth when the press and history and the powers that be say otherwise.

And eeeeeeevil police lieutenant Woods is going to frame Voight for something.  I just know it.

Episode was filmed before the shooting so no point in postponing the episode.

3 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Not really? This was a terrorist bombing, and they were lying about the "hundreds" of people dying, so it was entirely different to me. If the story had involved a sniper or something, then maybe. 

IMO, the episode was just so so.  Love her or hate her, I miss Lindsey, and maybe for no other reason than just because Sophia Bush could act circles around this new blonde chick. I'm not impressed with either her or Marina yet this season. Stiff, wooden performances from the ladies so far. 

I also miss the chit chat and banter of them just sitting around the office. The break room hasn't been used as a set yet. I need just a minute or two of levity, and maybe a "welcome back, Antonio!" or a "how's your sister, Kim?" Why nothing?

Well I think if the ladies had the same attention and storylines that Sophia did, maybe they would be good. Not their fault the writers gave sophia all the storylines. I feel bad for Tracey and Marina, always being badmouthed because they are not sophia bush. so sad.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Elliebab

[CheshireCat]

26 minutes ago, Elliebab said:

Episode was filmed before the shooting so no point in postponing the episode.

Episodes that had been filmed have been postponed before. I know Castle postponed one episode after the Boston marathon bombing (and they didn't even have the bomb go off) and I know of one other show which I watch which postponed and episode though I can't recall which show it was. So, it does happen regardless of filming.

[Chas411]

1 hour ago, Elliebab said:

Well I think if the ladies had the same attention and storylines that Sophia did, may

I think they will get a lot of attention. Burgess in particular I think has always had sufficient air time it's just unfortunate that it nearly always revolved around her dating life and obsession with getting into Intelligence. 

[Brookside]

3 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Anyone else think this episode was a bit too soon after what happened in Vegas?

Yes I do, it was my first thought.

[NJRadioGuy]

What an utter horse's arse of an episode. So much wrong, so much cringeworthiness tonight. We're supposed to believe the city's powers wouldn't (ultimately) be falling all over themselves declaring the guy a hero for what he did? Tragic life and death of a muslim cop who ultimately saved hundreds of lives by his intelligence work?

Tracy Spiridakos can't act. She's not believable in character, she has one facial expression and has the gravitas of a bag of gummi bears as far as being an intel copper is concerned. She's the PD's version of Fire's Saint Gabby for me. Even moreso, maybe. I have to wonder whether it'll be a tie between her and Burgess for the show's Mary Sue.

I actively don't like who Burgess has become. I loved her on the patrol side, and I miss that aspect of the show tremendously. Burgess spent how long as a uni, yet when Toma lowered his weapon she didn't have the presence of mind to disarm him? "Put the gun down?" not "Give me the gun?" Not use her agility and training to get it away from a distraught person? And Toma himself. Why the fucking riddles? Why not "I thought I had them. My apartment, above the sink, all the details are there. I could have done more but you can still get these sonsofbitches."

Platt needs more to do, but with the loss of focus on the patrol side, she's little more than a set decoration this year, which is too bad. She's awesome (both the character and Amy Morton, the actor) and deserves more screen time this season, not less.

[doLLish]

I miss Sophia but I think Marina was excellent in this episode. I really enjoyed it.

Burgess has great instincts and I love how relentless she is when she believes in something.

The new chick...meh. I liked her in small doses last season. So far this season I’m very underwhelmed.

[Guildford]

This episode certainly had a lot more of a groove than last week and no one was acting weirdly OOC, if the story was highly implausible but it's just TV right?

That's two weeks in a row that the whole team is involved.......things are looking up. I am surprised to see that they actually are competent cops....you'd never know it before this season because no one else was allowed to do anything.

6 hours ago, Elliebab said:

Episode was filmed before the shooting so no point in postponing the episode.

Well I think if the ladies had the same attention and storylines that Sophia did, maybe they would be good. Not their fault the writers gave sophia all the storylines. I feel bad for Tracey and Marina, always being badmouthed because they are not sophia bush. so sad.

Sadly I don't think the badmouthing will ever stop......it's pathetic tbh

[FnkyChkn34]

9 hours ago, Elliebab said:

Episode was filmed before the shooting so no point in postponing the episode.

Well I think if the ladies had the same attention and storylines that Sophia did, maybe they would be good. Not their fault the writers gave sophia all the storylines. I feel bad for Tracey and Marina, always being badmouthed because they are not sophia bush. so sad.

I'm not "badmouthing" anyone "because they are not Sophia Bush."  Comparisons, however, are inevitable because she was the female lead.  I'm criticizing the actresses who are left, because IMO, they aren't very good.  Maybe if the show had hired a great, dynamic actress as the new female lead, we'd all be able to ask "Sophia who?" but unfortunately, that didn't happen.

8 hours ago, Chas411 said:

I think they will get a lot of attention. Burgess in particular I think has always had sufficient air time it's just unfortunate that it nearly always revolved around her dating life and obsession with getting into Intelligence. 

Burgess has always been the second female lead.  I just feel like her acting abilities have taken a step back this season so far.  Taking time off obviously was necessary, but didn't seem to do her any favors.  As always, JMO.

6 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

What an utter horse's arse of an episode. So much wrong, so much cringeworthiness tonight. We're supposed to believe the city's powers wouldn't (ultimately) be falling all over themselves declaring the guy a hero for what he did? Tragic life and death of a muslim cop who ultimately saved hundreds of lives by his intelligence work?

Tracy Spiridakos can't act. She's not believable in character, she has one facial expression and has the gravitas of a bag of gummi bears as far as being an intel copper is concerned. She's the PD's version of Fire's Saint Gabby for me. Even moreso, maybe. I have to wonder whether it'll be a tie between her and Burgess for the show's Mary Sue.

I actively don't like who Burgess has become. I loved her on the patrol side, and I miss that aspect of the show tremendously. Burgess spent how long as a uni, yet when Toma lowered his weapon she didn't have the presence of mind to disarm him? "Put the gun down?" not "Give me the gun?" Not use her agility and training to get it away from a distraught person? And Toma himself. Why the fucking riddles? Why not "I thought I had them. My apartment, above the sink, all the details are there. I could have done more but you can still get these sonsofbitches."

Platt needs more to do, but with the loss of focus on the patrol side, she's little more than a set decoration this year, which is too bad. She's awesome (both the character and Amy Morton, the actor) and deserves more screen time this season, not less.

Totally agree!!!

3 hours ago, Guildford said:

Sadly I don't think the badmouthing will ever stop......it's pathetic tbh

Again, no one is "badmouthing" in favor of Sophia, or at least I'm not.  It was a simple comparison.  If I'm going to "badmouth" in the future, I'll just leave Sophia's name out of it, because Tracy is bad enough on her own.  How's that?  :-P

[Guildford]

21 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm not "badmouthing" anyone "because they are not Sophia Bush."  Comparisons, however, are inevitable because she was the female lead.  I'm criticizing the actresses who are left, because IMO, they aren't very good.  Maybe if the show had hired a great, dynamic actress as the new female lead, we'd all be able to ask "Sophia who?" but unfortunately, that didn't happen.

Burgess has always been the second female lead.  I just feel like her acting abilities have taken a step back this season so far.  Taking time off obviously was necessary, but didn't seem to do her any favors.  As always, JMO.

Totally agree!!!

Again, no one is "badmouthing" in favor of Sophia, or at least I'm not.  It was a simple comparison.  If I'm going to "badmouth" in the future, I'll just leave Sophia's name out of it, because Tracy is bad enough on her own.  How's that?  :-P

Each to there own, I don't think Sophia Bush is anything special as an actress either, I prefer Marina & Amy any day of the week. But that's just me......the new girl, I haven't seen enough of her yet to make a call but she can't be any worse......JMO

I do agree that Amy is completely wasted now & that's a real shame. I knew this would happen once they got rid of the patrol aspect. I miss that part of the show.

[Elliebab]

Well its not Marina nor Tracey's fault that they are not the female lead so these "sophia is better than everyone else" comparisons is not necessary. Not every actor will be sophia bush. I am so glad she is not on the show anymore. These actors do not deserve the hate cause of her.

[NJRadioGuy]

I don't think Sophia was deserving any statuettes for Best Actress, but she was a very passable journeyman actor in a well-written role. You couldn't really help but like who Lindsay was as both a person and a bad-ass cop. Upton is one dimensional for now, but even as they give her more material to work with, I wonder if the actor herself can pull it off. There's just something about her that grates on me. I can't define it, but ever since NBC's Revolution a few years ago I disliked her. She dragged down every scene she was in, and I felt like we were having her character forced down our throats and maybe some of that experience is rubbing off here. We'll see, I guess, when they actually give her something to do. Lindsay was a main character from the beginning; she made things happen. Upton is just there in the background and is the kind of character that things happen to.

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, Elliebab said:

Well its not Marina nor Tracey's fault that they are not the female lead so these "sophia is better than everyone else" comparisons is not necessary. Not every actor will be sophia bush. I am so glad she is not on the show anymore. These actors do not deserve the hate cause of her.

She's a better actress than both of them, and that was my only point.  The show was better with better actors/actresses.  No hate from me "because they are not Sophia," I agree that's not fair.  But a criticism because I don't think they are good actresses in their own right?  That's fair.  And it has nothing to do with the size of their roles, female leads or not.  They just aren't that good.  They aren't standing up to the male counterparts, IMO, and that's highly disappointing.

[VinceW]

12 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Episodes that had been filmed have been postponed before. I know Castle postponed one episode after the Boston marathon bombing (and they didn't even have the bomb go off) and I know of one other show which I watch which postponed and episode though I can't recall which show it was. So, it does happen regardless of filming.

Unfortunately for Castle, the replacement episode (TSATQ) was the worst episode of the series. The show runner never recovered from the criticism about the damage done to the Beckett/Castle relationship story line.

[Xantar]

I'm just glad that the local PD and the FBI worked together without a lot of shoving and alpha male posturing like they do on pretty much every other cop show. 

[Chas411]

Quote

 

Sadly I don't think the badmouthing will ever stop......it's pathetic tbh

You could argue the badmouthing about Sophia will also never stop. Looking at the above thread it seems spread pretty evenly over all three actresses which is sad.

 

i like Burgess (well Moreso I love Marina) and am ready to see her step up. She's had standalone episodes in the past that she carried off well. Upton I'm meh on because the character doesn't feel like one in her right yet more of a replacement for another character.

[FnkyChkn34]

13 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Episodes that had been filmed have been postponed before. I know Castle postponed one episode after the Boston marathon bombing (and they didn't even have the bomb go off) and I know of one other show which I watch which postponed and episode though I can't recall which show it was. So, it does happen regardless of filming.

I know that The Last Ship postponed its premiere right after the Pulse nightclub shooting because the episode also showed a shooting in a nightclub.  Now that was a strange coincidence, because it was also filmed months in advance.

14 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

You could argue the badmouthing about Sophia will also never stop. Looking at the above thread it seems spread pretty evenly over all three actresses which is sad.

So true. And she's gone, so you'd think her "haters" would be happy!

Edited October 5, 2017 by FnkyChkn34
helps to finish my sentence...

[Guest]

As a reminder, this thread is to discuss the episode titled "The Thing About Heroes."  If your post is not primarily discussing the episode, it is in the wrong place and will be removed.  If your post is sniping at other posters, it will be removed.  

[MakeMeLaugh]

I always hate a show about cops that has episodes about the main cop characters being in jeopardy, being dirty, being the villain. So bleh. I was surprised that Frank hadn't reported his findings and who seriously goes rogue undercover? What did he think the outcome would be without reporting his initial suspicions to his superiors? Better he had been a bad guy or at least an ambiguously "good" guy for the story line, but best if he hadn't been a cop. Who Burgess had trained. Who was pursuing him because, sure, no conflict there. Bleh.

I was neutral to the female cast in this but Mr MML like Upton lying to the one bad guy about being able to see his wife and then laying out the photos of her bleeding to death. He likes a little bad ass, I guess. Extremely petty of me and God will get me for this but Burgess/Marina's eyes bug me and I always get taken out of her scenes to consider if she has thyroid issues. Is there a viewer alive who doesn't want more Trudy??? Come on, Show--pump up the patrol side. Or even move her into the detective side--she said something early on last night like "Tell me again why I shouldn't retire" so perhaps a lateral move to work closely with my heartthrob Olinsky is in order (and then Mouch can be all jealous and go off on him and hijinks etc.).

Edited October 5, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[CheshireCat]

2 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

What did he think the outcome would be without reporting his initial suspicions to his superiors? Better he had been a bad guy or at least an ambiguously "good" guy for the story line, but best if he hadn't been a cop. Who Burgess had trained. Who was pursuing him because, sure, no conflict there. Bleh.

After what has happened in the Justice backdoor pilot. You'd think she'd be extra careful after that.

 

2 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

 Is there a viewer alive who doesn't want more Trudy??? Come on, Show--pump up the patrol side. Or even move her into the detective side--she said something early on last night like "Tell me again why I shouldn't retire" so perhaps a lateral move to work closely with my heartthrob Olinsky is in order (and then Mouch can be all jealous and go off on him and hijinks etc.).

I think Haas made a comment a while ago that it was quite complicated to always think up two separate stories that still need to compliment each other. While they have a new showrunner now, I doubt that they're going to rethink that, unfortunately. I, too, enjoyed the patrol side of the show.

[NJRadioGuy]

5 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I think Haas made a comment a while ago that it was quite complicated to always think up two separate stories that still need to compliment each other.

This. Right here, is one of my big problems with the Chicago franchise. Why do the stories all need to compliment each other? Why must every FD/EMS run, every PD patrol call, all have to do Something Really Important for the season's arc. What's wrong with a bunch of stand-alone B-plots that (GASP!) build up secondary characters? That's how we got Burgess and I loved those bits more than the main intel stuff some weeks. Patrol has always been the most interesting aspect of policing, and it's the one we all interact with at one level or another, so it's appreciated when it's depicted realistically and relatably. And there are so many stories they could tell.

[SnarkySheep]

On 10/5/2017 at 0:59 AM, Chas411 said:

Burgess in particular I think has always had sufficient air time it's just unfortunate that it nearly always revolved around her dating life and obsession with getting into Intelligence. 

Which she left last spring to care for her sister and niece...and here we are, having heard about her new boyfriend but not a single throwaway line about how "Nicole is doing so much better now!" or whatever?

Regarding Toma - I've never been a big fan of episodes where they introduce a character that's supposed to have been a good friend of one of the main characters...but the viewers have never seen him before. That goes right into the old "show don't tell" rule that every writer has heard a zillion times. 

[Guildford]

5 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

Which she left last spring to care for her sister and niece...and here we are, having heard about her new boyfriend but not a single throwaway line about how "Nicole is doing so much better now!" or whatever?

Regarding Toma - I've never been a big fan of episodes where they introduce a character that's supposed to have been a good friend of one of the main characters...but the viewers have never seen him before. That goes right into the old "show don't tell" rule that every writer has heard a zillion times. 

Or suddenly bringing back a long forgotten daughter in the last few minutes of one episode to kill them off in the start of the next.

[watcher1006]

It is impossible now to see an episode like this and not think about the political tumult brought about by the new administration of President #45. We saw the anti-Muslim anti-LGBT persecution that Toma was subjected to. The episode ended with Burgess running into the barricade of white privilege (Voight telling her to back off), the entitled (via his father) white male officer got off without penalty after what he did to his partner. Perhaps we were to speculate that the pressure of being Muslim is what drove Toma to launch such a hazardous rogue undercover operation? He was totally out of his depth. I didn't guess what was going on from the beginning but I felt that the episode wasn't just going to go the simple Muslim fear-stoking route. I don't know what the political leanings of the writers/producers are, but I think that we are going to see more than the usual dose of political themes on TV for the time being, whether they are intended to be such or not. It's the new normal.