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These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

catrox14

By catrox14
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Spoilers With Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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juppschmitz

juppschmitz

4 hours ago, rue721 said:

Damn, that is dark. *shudder*

This is totally random spec, but maybe there's some way to suck Michael directly into the box, like how a curse sucks a genie into a bottle? If they're able to trap Michael in a place inside of Dean's head, maybe there's a way to trap him in something else outside of it? Or maybe they could somehow yank the whole freezer out of there?

That's what I used to think about Lucifer back in S5. But narrative wise that would be too easy for the hero I suppose. So everyone just ignores anything like that *slight eyeroll at stupid, manipulative storytelling*

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Casseiopeia
Casseiopeia

The caption should be..."Dean looking for his dropped storyline"

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So far she's chosen an institution that actively tried to murder her children over said children, Lucifer's kid over her sons, an old man (Not!Bobby) over her sons, and an entire world of strangers ov

ahrtee
ahrtee

Also non-snarky:  I know I was hoping that the story would focus on Dean/Michael and not Sam learning to be a leader, Jack learning to be human, and Mary/Bobby.  I was hoping that we would get to actu

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juppschmitz

juppschmitz

4 hours ago, Cambion said:

Yes, it would kill him.  Going into the box would mean Dean would die in a few days at best (if he doesn't die from hypothermia first and has time to die from thirst -  deep ocean is cold ).  the problem is once he's dead Michael is out in his very own meat suit with no owner to evict him.  Cas has been using Jimmy's 'dead' body for how long? Angelic power - especially archangel power - keeps the bodies alive indefinitely with no need for a human soul to be in residence.  I think if the box were to happen, a million years from now if someone finds and opens the box, Michael would pop out fresh as a daisy wearing Dean like nothing ever happened.

The idea of trapping Micheal outside of a vessel is intriguing and certainly not without precedence.  Demons can be affected when in their smoke form -- the Devil's gate/demon trap kept them contained.  Hell, Dorothy and the wicked witch were kept in a bottle for how many years?  Yeah, that would be a good way out of this mess for all involved.

Unless my pet theory is the way they go where Micheal jumps into Nick and Lucifer does too and are so busy duking it out that Dean and company can shove them into the box and throw it into Mount Doom comes to pass, trapping Michael like a genie in a bottle is a good way to go.

They have Rowena and Billie. Why not conjure up the cage and stick them in there? (Not like even the cage is a safe bet, but better than the ocean, sure. Unless some hunter or angel on a ~mission~ come along and let them out. Again.)

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)

My understanding of the way the box works is that it can contain an arch angel.  So that even if Michael escaped Deans' head he's still trapped in the box.  And he can't use Dean's body to reek havoc on the world. 

But there is no way to get Dean out of the box without Michael getting out too.

The ocean was a way to prevent someone else from finding and opening the box.

I think Dean can die, either through Hypothermia, dehydration, or whatever but I think Michael would keep him alive indefinitely.  Which is why it is a fate worse than death.

But if anyone ends up in the box I'd put money on Sam with both arch angels in his head somehow.  Dabb is just retelling season 5.  Lucifer is back and it looks like his vessel is deteoriting.  So that sets up for Sam to say yes again.   We just had the Point of No Return ep.

Edited by ILoveReading
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

 Lucifer is back and it looks like his vessel is deteoriting.  So that sets up for Sam to say yes again.  

Yeah, that worries me, too. I thought when Bucklemming invented the "Crowley just made him a super-perma-vessel, somehow" (thereby pretty much making the angelic bloodline breeding for perfect vessels null and void, if you can just have the same result with a simple spell) thing to satisfy their endless Pellegrino kink. I mean, that is the reason we were burdened with Nick this Season right?

And are they really just gonna have Lucifer pop back up? Did he annoy the Empty-Keeper as well? Or does that entity just not give a shit anymore? If so, why the massive hate-boner for Cas still after he willingly let him go?  

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

Dabb continues to demonstrate that he has zero interest in letting the Michael storyline play out.  Or that Dean has any real active part in in, (expect to fail).

From the sounds of this, "Michael has been active in Dean's mind" seems to mean just banging on the door.   Not any kind of complicated scheme or plan on Michael's part. 

It sounds like Michael escapes this episode and we don't even get any kind of confrontation.   Dean gets taken out easily by the snake god.  Michael gets out because he's unconscious.   

As for the whole "taking its tole on Dean" it would have been good to see that play out over the next few eps.  (there are 6 eps after this) but Chuck Forbid Dabb but any kind of effort into it.  I seem to remember Dean snoring away in Damaged good with no problems. 

Dean's only purpose this season really seems to be set up to fail.

Given that we have MOTW eps its obvious Michael still isn't possessing Dean.  Step two in handing this story to Sam.   I dispise Prophet and and Loss more and more each week.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I`m kinda fearing Michael unceremoniously gets out in 14 now, too. Which would be crazy. I mean, he then just fucks off like that? If he got out, he could just take over Dean, snap his fingers to kill everyone and then go about his merry way. 

If his entire activity was just screaming and pounding, that would be super-lame also. And then getting out because Dean is unconcious? To then focus the episode on Rowena and Jack? Like I give a crap. 

This has clusterfuck potential.

Also agreed, Dabb is terrible at the spoiler game. Either he says nothing at all or he destroys any kind of build-up and suspension. Which fits because he can`t properly build a story as a writer either.   

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catrox14

catrox14

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Quote

“I think for all three of them, they have this Plan B, which is the box, which they don’t want to do, but is there,” SUPERNATURAL co-showrunner Andrew Dabb says. “They feel it buys them a bit of time. But I think we’ll learn very quickly, Michael has not been idle during his time in Dean’s head.”

From the article.

What the fuckity fuck is Dabb babbling about here? NO THE BOX WAS PLAN A!  HOLY SHIT. 

It was Dean's PLAN A until Sam and Cas convinced Dean to not go through with it.   I swear to Gods, I cannot fathom why Dabb continues to talk to the media about this show. He contradicts his own storyline! LOL 

JFC.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

From @Aeryn13 in the regular spoiler thread.

Quote

With Dean`s final point of "you have to let me go when the times comes" turned around on him and not stand in the big hero`s way? Highly likely. 

Sam won't be treated as being stupid and suicidal.  Everyone will immediately jump on Sam's plan and lecture Dean that he has to accept it.

There is a reason why AU Bobby is in episode 19.  Dean will need his "suck it up, Sam is a big boy you need to treat him like that speech"

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

There is a reason why AU Bobby is in episode 19.  Dean will need his "suck it up, Sam is a big boy you need to treat him like that speech"

You mean the "you have to bow to Chief, you little stupid underling" speech? Probably. That`s why AU!Bobby learned his lesson in ep 5. 

Yuck, I think another Suck Song will break me. I still hate it with a white-hot passion.

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ster1

ster1

With Dabb at the helm, a repeat of Swan Song wouldn't surprise me in the least. I saw such a discrepancy in how he wrote the brothers' roles in the 300th (seriously, what did Dean even do besides make the initial wish and go grocery shopping?)  If Dabb had no problem in handing Sam both Dean's big Zachariah kill and the big cathartic scene with John (nevermind that Dean's most impactful, throughline arc for 14 years has been his relationship with his father),  it's not a big stretch for Michael to be next.

But while Sam is clearly Dabb's favorite TFW character, I think he's actually most enthralled with the side characters. Season 12 revolved around Mary and the BMoL. Season 13 was Wayward, Jack, and Lucifer. This season, Jack and Nick have gotten the most consistent, cohesive focus. I'm betting that, if Michael does indeed leave Dean (which would make no sense but hey, welcome to lol!canon), he'll end up in Nick or Kaia or random character #487.  Then Jack will save the day, burn off the rest of his soul, and next season will be all about that. 

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

9 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Now we know why Jensen hasn't been filming much after 13. I mean why would he? He could randomely take a hiatus until filming stops.

And how they were able to let him have time off to be Bacchus in Mardi Gras.  There was literally no storyline to write him out of.

I guess Jack in the Box is going to be literal.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

If this was any other show, I'd wonder if the events of the last 15 minutes was Michael playing with Dean and trying to get him to drop his guard, and that the psychic head Sam and Cas are in is a trap while the "old friend" is Michael taking Dean and Jack for a joy ride. 

But this is Dabbnatural and they have no imagination, creativity or ability.  So I'm sure what we saw is what we got.

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PAForrest

PAForrest

9 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Now we know why Jensen hasn't been filming much after 13. I mean why would he? He could randomely take a hiatus until filming stops.

After hearing what happened in last night's NougatSueNatural, and given all the speculation that Jensen simply hasn't been filming much at all since the show returned from holiday hiatus, I have to wonder if Jensen gave the "showrunners" (sorry, have to air-quote that term when it comes to this show) the professional equivalent of "lose my number"? There's no way Jensen can't see the writing on the wall, and since they're only shooting half-time now, and his character is completely and utterly unnecessary to NougatSueNatural, maybe he told them to feel free to write him out entirely if they wanted to - and since we know they do, they did.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Did anyone see the promo for ep 15, it was all Sam and Cas with two weird short clips of Dean which were obviously not even from the episode. Why pretend he even is in that part of the episode when he won't be?

Since Nougat-Sue will now be joining Nickifer in the fast forward list, I'm not gonna watch Dean in 15 either since he goes with him. Probably to Kaia!Sue. And then stand in the background why the two Sues talk. Maybe he gets some more "weak" insults. 

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

Anyone want to bet for the next two weeks Sam finds the case, does all the research while Dean stands around and looks pretty?

37 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

After hearing what happened in last night's NougatSueNatural, and given all the speculation that Jensen simply hasn't been filming much at all since the show returned from holiday hiatus, I have to wonder if Jensen gave the "showrunners" (sorry, have to air-quote that term when it comes to this show) the professional equivalent of "lose my number"? There's no way Jensen can't see the writing on the wall, and since they're only shooting half-time now, and his character is completely and utterly unnecessary to NougatSueNatural, maybe he told them to feel free to write him out entirely if they wanted to - and since we know they do, they did.

I fear he's given up an is just there for the paycheck now.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

After hearing what happened in last night's NougatSueNatural, and given all the speculation that Jensen simply hasn't been filming much at all since the show returned from holiday hiatus, I have to wonder if Jensen gave the "showrunners" (sorry, have to air-quote that term when it comes to this show) the professional equivalent of "lose my number"? There's no way Jensen can't see the writing on the wall, and since they're only shooting half-time now, and his character is completely and utterly unnecessary to NougatSueNatural, maybe he told them to feel free to write him out entirely if they wanted to - and since we know they do, they did.

I honestly amd with all my heart hope this is the case because otherwise, he's just staying for the money and while it is a considerable sum of money, I think that it's not worth the loss to his integrity as regards his craft and career if he just continues to re-sign and watch his iconic character continue to be ruined by Dabb and co. in the same manner that they've been doing this since s12 and that reached new lows last night.

So yeah, I'm literally hoping and praying that he at long last and finally is seeing the writing on the wall that many in his fandom have been seeing since Dabb took over.

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BlueDiamond

BlueDiamond

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Did anyone see the promo for ep 15, it was all Sam and Cas with two weird short clips of Dean which were obviously not even from the episode. Why pretend he even is in that part of the episode when he won't be? 

 

Wait, from which episode they were? I saw the trailer briefly and while I've noticed the very little amount of Dean, I thought the scenes they used were from that episode. 

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

Wait, from which episode they were? I saw the trailer briefly and while I've noticed the very little amount of Dean, I thought the scenes they used were from that episode. 

There are all of two shots of Dean in the promo. One is Sam and Dean showing off their FBI badges when clearly Sam and Cas go on the case and Dean is not gonna be there. So when is this supposed to take place? It`s pretty much just one frame, could be from just about anything honestly. Then there is another quick shot of Dean, wearing the red shirt?, looks around outside with a somewhat shocked expression. This may or may not be a quick bit from Prophet and Loss. I`d give it a 10 % chance ot be in ep 15 but don`t really think so.

Maybe that will be in the previouslies for the episode but it is ridiculous to cut that in the promo. If they didn`t want to show no Dean, then why not pick a shot from whatever he does with Jack in the C plot? Do they just have one scene and it is with someone like Kaia!Sue? There has to be one "non-spoilery" frame they could have used for the promo. 

ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)

So something happen bad happens to Jack and/or Sam  and Dean feels guilty. 

To quote the yellow eyed demon, (or the first one anyway) "Oh, my. I'm shocked at this unforeseen turn of events."

How I loath Dabb and this season.  It should have been about Dean, not Jack or Sam.

Edited by ILoveReading
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tessathereaper

tessathereaper

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

So something happen bad happens to Jack and/or Sam  and Dean feels guilty. 

To quote the yellow eyed demon, (or the first one anyway) "Oh, my. I'm shocked at this unforeseen turn of events."

How I love Dabb and this season.  It should have been about Dean, not Jack or Sam.

I'm a lilttle confused, so does that mean there are two emotional scenes?

catrox14

catrox14

  • Author

I want to believe that Jack in the Box is not literal, so to that end I'm trying to think of reasons why  Dean is sitting alone, next to a tree, crying. 

 - Could it be about Cas, given the Empty threat (heh) is still looming?  I wonder if something happens to Cas, meaning what would make him so happy and leave Dean alone and crying.

- Could Dean find out that he misses Michael in some weird way like Nick did Lucifer? Whilst that would be a sucky thing it would keep Dean tied to the Michael story.

- Could it be something to do with Mary? Maybe she decides she no longer wants to be on Earth and finds a way to get to Heaven with John?

If it is literal,  that seems to point to Michael never being dead and he found a way to lock down Jack and he's been pretending to be Jack and somehow Dean figures it out?

If Sam ends up in the box as Michael!Sam then... 😤😤😒😒😬😾

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

From the context of the tweet, it`s hard to figure out if he was just making a joke. He was talking about how they knew it would be emotional filming with JDM and then says "unlike last night bla bla". Now that could jokingly refer to Jensen "weeping" because it was late hours shooting, he was tired, outside, probably cold and it got "emotional, haha". Until you get audio, it is impossible to say if that is a spoiler or if he is talking about filming.

However, if it WAS a scene where it was written Dean gets emotional than the segue way doesn`t make much sense. Unless he means a scene that was meant to be emotional got more emotional for him as an actor than he thought. 

Right now, I`m tending towards it being a joke more than a spoiler. Unless the spoiler is just that he filmed in the woods late at night. 

edit:  Okay, I watched the vid and apparently he was referring to a scene. Dean is in the woods, all alone and weeping. From Jared`s comment, I got the feeling it will be about Sam. Which, urgh. If Sam gets to play big hero when Dean is portrayed as a weak quitter, I will break something. 

Edited by Aeryn13
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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I can only hope it's Jack.  Because if Sam sacrifices himself after refusing to let Dean do it, I couldn't stand the writers' hypocrisy, no matter how they spun it. 

When he first mentions the scene, Jared says (coyly) "Y'all can guess what he's crying about" and Jensen says "I bet you can't", and I didn't think he was being sarcastic. So maybe it's not what we (jadedly) think? It's at about 27:30.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

It`s hard to get a read on this bit. Jensen looks, I don`t know, like he didn`t want to go there? Trying to protect a spoiler? His face isn`t really jokey there. I can`t understand - accustically - the end of the exchange. After Jensen says "I bet you can`t", what does Jared say? 

He says, "Neener, neener, his face can guess." Which is a throwback to an earlier 'bit' in the panel and nothing to do with this maybe-spoiler.

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Ah, that bit with the insults. Thank you.

I think the weirdest thing is the location. Why would Dean be all alone in the woods to cry? I know he joked about doing it in the car and Singer going "that`s not cinematic" but the middle of the woods? Outdoor shooting at night, that shit is expensive. There has to be a reason why he is there in the first place. 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

28 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Ah, that bit with the insults. Thank you.

I think the weirdest thing is the location. Why would Dean be all alone in the woods to cry? I know he joked about doing it in the car and Singer going "that`s not cinematic" but the middle of the woods? Outdoor shooting at night, that shit is expensive. There has to be a reason why he is there in the first place. 

It was about favourite curse words and Jared says his was 'your face ____' (which kinda sorta makes no sense, lol). The only thing being in the woods brings to mind for me is Kaiah. Blech.

catrox14

catrox14

  • Author
1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It was about favourite curse words and Jared says his was 'your face ____' (which kinda sorta makes no sense, lol). The only thing being in the woods brings to mind for me is Kaiah. Blech.

At this point, I wonder if they will have Jack open another portal, because theoretically, shouldn't there be more Michaels, Lucifers, Gabriels, and well everyone else? What if part of Dean's fate is that he has to stop ALL the Michaels and that's why Kaia factors in and she and Jack open more portals.  Maybe Dean goes universe hopping again?  I dunno. I'm spitballing here LOL

Just now, ILoveReading said:

Either, Sam or Jack or both. 

And Cas or Mary.

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catrox14

catrox14

  • Author

ETA... for me, Dean weeping over Jack seems way out of line other than Dean's own unnecessary guilt or they want it to be this full circle...that Dean wanted to kill Jack right away and now look how bad he feels.  I REALLY hope that doesn't come to pass.  But Dean would weep for Cas, Sam, Mary or even John if he found out John was in some other bad place.  OHHH maybe it's the Bad Place again.

I would rather Jack go darkside, like Dean always worried about just so he could be right LOL.

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)
8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Please, please, PLEASE let it be Mary.

I would die laughing if Dark Nougat killed her.

I read that Kim and Brianna were teasing an upcoming death in their con panel, something that's really gonna hurt. I don't think either one is going to be in another episode in 14? And death only holds meaning if the character stays dead.

If it's death, it's not gonna be Dean or Sam. Even the current writers don't do this for more than 5 minutes in an episode.

Edited by Aeryn13
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rue721

rue721

33 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Please, please, PLEASE let it be Mary.

29 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I would die laughing if Dark Nougat killed her.

I think it's a real possibility that Jack will kill Mary.

I think that Jack will be going dark side, because it was so ominous when he declared himself the son of Lucifer, and then after he killed Michael and drank his grace, said that he felt like himself again.

Also, I think that Sam and Dean probably won't take the possibility of Jack going dark right now THAT seriously, because they've assumed the worst about him before only to be proven wrong, and Jack has earned their trust over the past couple years. But I think Jack burnt up his soul when he killed Michael, and he's not going to have that Bambi-eyed thing going on anymore, and won't have that natural innocence/kindness in him without a soul, but might not even realize what's happened (because he's not really that self-aware). 

It would be so horrible if Sam and Dean trust him, and Jack winds up killing Mary somehow. But if the show goes in that direction, they'll have to write off at least Mary and maybe Jack, too -- and I don't think that they want to do that. I mean even just for logistical reasons. But on the other hand, they don't know what to do with Mary, so maybe it would actually be more convenient for them to be rid of her.

Personally, I don't want either Mary OR Jack gone. I like that Mary's out wondering the show's universe (not conveniently dead a la John) and I like how Jack has changed/added to the dynamic among the main cast. Also, I still feel like there's more to mine in Sam and Mary's relationship in particular. YMMV.

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Spoilers With Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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