These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

No, I meant being in the box. 

It would be an interesting twist if the 300th was in Dean's head, but this is Dabb.  He wouldn't know creative if it bit him.  Plus, if it was Dean's fantasy then Zacheriah coming back or s4 Cas really doesn't make sense.

I figure Dean will be out of the box by the end of the next episode.  Either he panics and demands to be let out, which might happen if he prays to Cas or Michael escapes and its no longer necessary.

Edited January 25, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

I don't believe any ep will take place in Dean's head. Still too many till the Finale. But him never actually going into the box but that scene fron the promo just being a short vision or nightmare? That, I could see.

[Myrelle]

Just now, Aeryn13 said:

I don't believe any ep will take place in Dean's head. Still too many till the Finale. But him never actually going into the box but that scene fron the promo just being a short vision or nightmare? That, I could see.

It has to be because otherwise what is with that original episode description?!

[PAForrest]

On 1/24/2019 at 9:29 PM, Aeryn13 said:

I don't believe any ep will take place in Dean's head. Still too many till the Finale. But him never actually going into the box but that scene fron the promo just being a short vision or nightmare? That, I could see.

I don't get the feeling there's a vision or nightmare involved. My take-away from the promo, and given Dean's attitude in this last episode, is not that Dean wimps out, because Dean wouldn't, but that somehow Michael manages to escape Dean's head the same second the box is being sealed. Or despite Dean's best efforts at building the box, there's a pin hole leak somewhere and because Michael knows what Dean's doing, he leaves Dean and escapes as angel energy, where Dean is now stuck in the box alone and no one can hear him crying out for help.

Obviously he'll escape the box by the end of the episode, probably once everyone gets wind of Michael being on the loose.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I don't get the feeling there's a vision or nightmare involved. My take-away from the promo, and given Dean's attitude in this last episode, is not that Dean wimps out, because Dean wouldn't, but that somehow Michael manages to escape Dean's head the same second the box is being sealed. Or despite Dean's best efforts at building the box, there's a pin hole leak somewhere and because Michael knows what Dean's doing, he leaves Dean and escapes as angel energy, where Dean is now stuck in the box alone and no one can hear him crying out for help.

Obviously he'll escape the box by the end of the episode, probably once everyone gets wind of Michael being on the loose.

I`m not sure. I`d assume both Sam and Cas would be with Dean when he was going in and would stay with him until the box was dumped into the ocean. Now possibly the box is soundproof so they would a) not notice Michael has gotten out - shouldn`t there be some kind of light show for that? and b) not hear Dean`s attempts to make himself heard. 

However, the promo gave me more the impression that Dean has gone in, stayed in a bit, tries for a final phone call and notices the battery is out. So that freaks him out, making it all more real. I can see this being more of a vision or something a prophet would see. 

Obviously Cas (and everyone) will get on Dean`s case about the box plan being terrible and yada yada so IMO the episode will make him change his mind on it and go with the "screw fate, we`re gonna fight". But I don`t want it to be related to him being so scared by what it would be like that he wimps out now. 

I also think Billie`s "this is how it ends" was supposed tp be taken at face value and she said all the books had been changed to Michael escaping, using Dean as his vessel and burn down the world. Now I don`t know if the box-solution really was the one in that one other book or if Dean was fibbing about that.  

Right now I`m quite wary of episode 12.

I had hoped to get a synopsis for episode 14 to possibly get a clue on where the story is at after ep 13 but unfortunately, if there is no new episode on Feb 14th, we`d not get another synopsis before next Friday. Sigh.  

[PAForrest]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

I`m not sure. I`d assume both Sam and Cas would be with Dean when he was going in and would stay with him until the box was dumped into the ocean. Now possibly the box is soundproof so they would a) not notice Michael has gotten out - shouldn`t there be some kind of light show for that? and b) not hear Dean`s attempts to make himself heard. 

However, the promo gave me more the impression that Dean has gone in, stayed in a bit, tries for a final phone call and notices the battery is out. So that freaks him out, making it all more real. I can see this being more of a vision or something a prophet would see. 

Obviously Cas (and everyone) will get on Dean`s case about the box plan being terrible and yada yada so IMO the episode will make him change his mind on it and go with the "screw fate, we`re gonna fight". But I don`t want it to be related to him being so scared by what it would be like that he wimps out now.

LOL! In another season, with another showrunner who isn't bent on canon-busting, yeah, there should be light. Yet there wasn't when Michael left Dean's body at the end of episode 2, and there wasn't again when he jumped back into Dean from the female host, right in front of everyone. So I don't think we can count on glowy stuff.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if Dean somehow sneaks out to do the metal coffin thing himself so the others don't try and stop him. In fact, I'd pretty much expect that.

Really, it could go any number of ridiculous ways, I'm just giving my knee-jerk reaction to the promo. Whatever happens, we know it's not permanent and Dean is up and about before the end of the episode.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

Really, it could go any number of ridiculous ways, I'm just giving my knee-jerk reaction to the promo. Whatever happens, we know it's not permanent and Dean is up and about before the end of the episode.

I'm really, really, counting on Jensen here. I know he's on board with the broad humor a liiyke too much for my taste at times, but I sincerely hope he wouldn't let them crush the very core of Dean's character by making him too weak to go through with his own plan. Pretty please.

[Cambion]

I dunno.  The thing that keeps coming back to me is why are we seeing Donatello in a coma now?  Why are the boys going to see him now?  Not a peep about him in what a season and a half? So why now?  Having him pop up during the Michael crises seems, hmmm, fishy? Convenient?  Something I can't find a word for?  

What, he's just going to wake up with a brilliant solution to the problem?  He has no soul and is in a coma so they stick Micheal in there somehow and put him in the box and drop him in the Pacific?

 

I'm probably missing something, but that scene from one of the promos keeps sticking out at me as out of place.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Cambion said:

I'm probably missing something, but that scene from one of the promos keeps sticking out at me as out of place.

It's a BuckLemming episode....so at least one scene will be wildly out of place if not the whole freaking episode. LOL

[MysteryGuest]

On 1/26/2019 at 1:50 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

I sincerely hope he wouldn't let them crush the very core of Dean's character by making him too weak to go through with his own plan.

I don't think they would ever show Dean just wimping out on his plan because he's afraid.  But if he does get swayed by something Sam, Mary or Cas have to say to him, I don't see that as being weak. 

[ahrtee]

16 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I don't think they would ever show Dean just wimping out on his plan because he's afraid.  But if he does get swayed by something Sam, Mary or Cas have to say to him, I don't see that as being weak. 

If they come up with a viable alternative plan, that would be fine (even if it'll just "maybe" work and he can still have the nuclear option if it fails.)  But if he backs out because he doesn't want to hurt his family, even with the promise of "we'll find another way.  We always do," then it's back to the old choosing his family over the rest of the world, and that has already been universally condemned as not only weak but downright immoral.  

[MysteryGuest]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

If they come up with a viable alternative plan, that would be fine (even if it'll just "maybe" work and he can still have the nuclear option if it fails.)  But if he backs out because he doesn't want to hurt his family, even with the promise of "we'll find another way.  We always do," then it's back to the old choosing his family over the rest of the world, and that has already been universally condemned as not only weak but downright immoral.  

Well, killing Death and unleashing Amara on the world, rather than killing his brother and allowing himself to be sent into the ether is really the same thing.  Technically, they're responsible for causing, however inadvertently, multiple world-ending situations.  But this is fiction, so we allow little things like that to pass.

[ILoveReading]

I hope its not something like, when Dean calls Sammy into the phone, Sam hears him just before the battery goes dead but Dean doesn't know that.  Then Sam thinks Dean wants to be rescued so Sam goes to get him.   Because then Sam is the hero and Dean is the zero who wimped out.

Since we haven't heard much about Dean in the 300th, just that he makes a wish, my ideal scenario would be Dean's at the bottom of the ocean, in ep 12 and at the end we see Sam rescue him and tell him they found another way. (not that Dean wimped out)  Dean's happy and we have the 300th, and then in a twist we see that it was just Dean's mind playing tricks on him and episode 300 is a dream.  I would give Dabb all the credit if he pulled off a twist like that.  Then episode 14 has Sam working with Rowena (Jared and Ruth were spotted filming together, Jensen wans't seen on set at all) to find a way to save Dean, and we more of Deans' struggles at the bottom of the ocean.

Episode 14 is written by Yockey and is called Ouroboros, which is a snake eating it's tail.

Then episode 15 is Peace of Mind with Yockey and Dabb's assistant (gag).   Maybe, similar to what Death did with Sam and  Rowena can reinforce the wall in Deans' head.

Then episode 16 and 17 can be standard monster of the week, and they don't have to worry about Michael.  But 18 is Berens (double gag) so I'm guessing that will be a wayward Sue ep because that his other two eps were.  I'm sure Wayward poser will come looking for her spear. 

Then episode 19 and 20 can deal with Michael.

But this is Dabb and he doesn't think long term (no way do I believe he has a plan) and he needs Dean back for episode 300, so I'm guessing the Sam hears Dean's last desperate Sammy before the phone cuts and he interprets that as rescue me.  (if that scene wasn't a vision by a prophet). 

My biggest worry about the Rowena episode is that she somehow transfer Michael to Sam, because we have the spoiler of a new Sam coming up.  Although hopefully that is part of the 300th and nothing long term.  No more altered Sam's please.

Edited January 27, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

My spec for altered!Sam right now is Prophet!Sam. They will somehow do something that either deliberately or accidentally transfers Donatello's prophet-ness to him. Undecided if that is just an interim state or they find another actual prophet and transfer it again.

When J2 said this about a new version of Sam, they can't have written more than ep 13 and I doubt that's gonna be it. They were also whispering and giggling which made me think it will have a comedic touch. 

20 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Well, killing Death and unleashing Amara on the world, rather than killing his brother and allowing himself to be sent into the ether is really the same thing.  Technically, they're responsible for causing, however inadvertently, multiple world-ending situations.  But this is fiction, so we allow little things like that to pass.

Dean didn't know he would be releasing Amara. He knew nothing of Sam's currently ongoing spell. Which wouldn't have been stopped by Sam's death either. And killing death had nothing whatsoever to do with releasing Amara. It bugs me when that gets put on Dean. So no, it wouldn't at all be the same to me now.   

Wimping out for cowardly or selfish reasons is not something I wanna see the character do. It's not a little thing that I would just "allow to pass". It would be utterly horrible.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

My spec for altered!Sam right now is Prophet!Sam.

That is my guess as well.  I've been speculating that Sam was ultimately going to be a prophet since we found out there is a wall of names.  Its possible he's having visions of Dean.

I saw this picture of Jensen, taken with fans.  It's not technically a spoiler but what caught me is how long Jensen's hair was.  (unless this is just a camera angle).  He doesn't wear it that long as Dean.  It wouldn't have grown that fast since Friday.

 

But if Dean was still under the ocean he should have a beard too.  Although if he had a beard and was spotted fans would know something was up, so it might be a purgatory thing where it just doesn't' grow. 

[gonzosgirrl]

18 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Dean didn't know he would be releasing Amara. He knew nothing of Sam's currently ongoing spell. Which wouldn't have been stopped by Sam's death either. And killing death had nothing whatsoever to do with releasing Amara. It bugs me when that gets put on Dean. So no, it wouldn't at all be the same to me now.  

SO much this. It's amazing how that's forgotten. Dean only chose not to kill Sam, and to (presumably) continue fighting the Mark on his own until they found another way. Amara's unleashing is absolutely not on Dean.

I don't know why they have Dean yelling out Sammy's name with such obvious shades of 3x16 if he is not hoping to be rescued from his current Hell. I absolutely agree that if he changes his mind because they've figured out another way, or even agreed to give them a chance to find another way, that would be fine and right. That's not the impression left by the preview. I hope it's creative editing, meant to mislead.

Edited January 27, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Aeryn13]

Yeah, the " Sam...Sammy" is the worrying part. I hope that is out of context editing.

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Yeah, the " Sam...Sammy" is the worrying part. I hope that is out of context editing.

this is my worry.  Panic and losing your last live line would be normal in that situation.   Kind of like Dean's panicked screamed in hell, but I'm worried that show will have Sam see that as" rescue me" and it will framed that Dean was too scared to really go through with it.

[MysteryGuest]

27 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Dean didn't know he would be releasing Amara. He knew nothing of Sam's currently ongoing spell. Which wouldn't have been stopped by Sam's death either. And killing death had nothing whatsoever to do with releasing Amara. It bugs me when that gets put on Dean. So no, it wouldn't at all be the same to me now.   

No, he didn't know he'd be releasing Amara, specifically, but Death had told him what he needed to do in order to prevent the Mark from being transferred to anyone else.  And he still ended up killing Death and taking the risk on whatever was going to happen next.  I personally don't have a problem with that, because that's the whole show.  I won't be at all surprised for this latest plan to not be carried out for whatever reason.  But I do sincerely doubt that the show would make it look as though Dean was too afraid to go through with it.  They've never done it before and I don't see them doing it now.  That was my point.

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

Technically, they're responsible for causing, however inadvertently, multiple world-ending situations.  But this is fiction, so we allow little things like that to pass.

That was actually my point.  They've done it so many times it would be nice if just once they didn't, especially since they've been called out on putting family before the world before.  

 

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

No, he didn't know he'd be releasing Amara, specifically, but Death had told him what he needed to do in order to prevent the Mark from being transferred to anyone else.  And he still ended up killing Death and taking the risk on whatever was going to happen next. 

No, Dean's original plan was to keep the mark and be sent to another planet or somewhere.  It was Death who insisted on having him kill Sam, not to prevent him from transferring the mark but to prevent Sam from rescuing him.  Chuck (I think) even said that the world would go on with DemonDean in it.  It was removing the mark and releasing Amara that caused the problem, and that wasn't on Dean.  

[Res]

4 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

Well, killing Death and unleashing Amara on the world, rather than killing his brother and allowing himself to be sent into the ether is really the same thing.  Technically, they're responsible for causing, however inadvertently, multiple world-ending situations.  But this is fiction, so we allow little things like that to pass.

IMHO, They only get a pass on that until season 5. I didn't give either of them OR THE WRITERS a pass for the Death situation because it was beyond stupid for all of the above AND considering the power of Death, there was NO REASON whatsoever to have Dean even be set up to do the killing. That whole finale became Patrick Star levels stupid the second Dean had Sam come to his rendezvous with Death. Since then, the story telling of these writers has become soap opera type drivel and will continue to be because this fandom will NOT allow these two fully grown hunters be real heroes which allows the writers to be lazy, rinse and repeat stories ad nausea because "oh, what's that such a great Bro moment!", "Oh, loved that bro hug", etc. 

And, yes, Dean will be made to give in again, choosing his brother over the world for yet another time, further reducing their legacy which is even further reduced as, exactly how many people have they themselves even saved this season?

Rant paused for now but Season 10 finale will always rub me as raw as Season 8 and 5 as far as textbook idiocy. 

[AwesomO4000]

6 hours ago, ahrtee said:

No, Dean's original plan was to keep the mark and be sent to another planet or somewhere.  It was Death who insisted on having him kill Sam, not to prevent him from transferring the mark but to prevent Sam from rescuing him.  Chuck (I think) even said that the world would go on with DemonDean in it.  It was removing the mark and releasing Amara that caused the problem, and that wasn't on Dean.  

8 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Dean didn't know he would be releasing Amara. He knew nothing of Sam's currently ongoing spell. Which wouldn't have been stopped by Sam's death either. And killing death had nothing whatsoever to do with releasing Amara. It bugs me when that gets put on Dean. So no, it wouldn't at all be the same to me now.   

Taken to the "Bitch vs Jerk" thread because it doesn't have to do with spoilers.

[catrox14]

17 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

this is my worry.  Panic and losing your last live line would be normal in that situation.   Kind of like Dean's panicked screamed in hell, but I'm worried that show will have Sam see that as" rescue me" and it will framed that Dean was too scared to really go through with it.

I was thinking about how this might go leading up to the 300th ep with JDM.

It's interesting to me that Dean would choose to go back in a coffin after he dug himself out of his own grave in s4. He shouted for help when he was in Hell and he shouted for help as he was crawling out of his grave. Now, I think it is more likely it's just an homage to Lazarus Rising and at the same time I wonder if there is more to what was in Dean's death book like maybe all of this goes away if he goes back to his grave but now the grave is under water.

 

I'm also wondering if there will be a time jump.

Other random thoughts:

One reason for Dean to sound that panicked over Sam is if Sam is being tortured or harmed right as Dean's phone dies or Sam tells him he's doing something like becoming the King of Hell for reasons. Neither if those situations would be Dean chickening out, but more that his Prime Directive is engaged and he stuck where he cannot do anything about it. 

've also been wondering if this is leading up to Cas leaving the show. I don't think it's random that Michael mocked Castiel's iconic line. What if whatever changes Castiel and Dean's relationship is that he has must be the one who sends Dean back to Perdition, so to speak and when (or if given what I think is going on with Dean/Jensen)they get Dean  out the of box, that Dean's memory of Cas will be gone. It would kind of be a flip around of the Emmanuel arc.

Or somehow Michael erases Dean's memory of Castiel as a fuck you to both of them.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I was thinking about how this might go leading up to the 300th ep with JDM.

Me too.

So I watched the promo again to see if I might be able to glean something from  it and this is what I came up with for spec.

In the promo we first hear Dean exhorting Sam to stay with him as regards the plan then we get Cas telling Dean to give it up then we get the scenes of Dean in the coffin. 

I think that that will also be the order of the scenes in the actual episode* but interspersed with the case of the week that's going to involve the prophets and I think that the Dean in the coffin scene IS going to turn out to be a vision of the prophecy of Dean going into the coffin with Michael-a "little scene", Jensen named it-and the end of the episode will have Dean seeing and realizing more fully the awful terror that he will be facing by going through with this plan-the loss part will obviously be Sam's and Cas' as they come to understand that they may have to lose Dean in this way in order to save the world.

*this could also be the last scene, but the whole tone of that snippet and especially the part where he says that he's not into long good byes(or something like that) makes me feel like we'll get it at the beginning and the end of the episode will revolve around simply letting us know, w/o a doubt, that Dean is in truth and indeed very scared and totally unnerved by his presumed "fate"-or as someone else mentioned to show us how terrifying it's going to be for him.

If we're lucky, John will reinforce to Dean how strong and brave Dean has always been, even as a child, and he will further strengthen Dean's resolve to keep the door intact for as long as he can thereby making the plan something they can put off until the end of the season, when something will happen that will make it necessary for them to have to face it again, but I'm also going to bet that that "prophecy" he's shown in this one will either not take place at all or he will be rescued from it before it goes into the ocean via either Sam or Jack going darkside to achieve that end. My money is on Jack here. for obvious reasons.

. 

[Myrelle]

I'm really nervous that if that coffin scene is real, that they will write Dean as deciding to not go through with it because it's too much for him and like others here, I would hate that with the passion of ten thousand fiery suns. :-/ 

[gonzosgirrl]

The only way I can accept Dean changing his mind is if this 'Sammy!!' thing is a vision and it also involves the box not working for some reason- so he decides against torturing himself for no good reason. Or, if the vision gives him enough pause to agree to postpone getting dumped into the ocean while they try to find another way.

[ILoveReading]

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The only way I can accept Dean changing his mind is if this 'Sammy!!' thing is a vision and it also involves the box not working for some reason- so he decides against torturing himself for no good reason. Or, if the vision gives him enough pause to agree to postpone getting dumped into the ocean while they try to find another way.

I woudn't mind if they did something like with Sam's wall.  Rowena could maybe reinforce the door with a a padlock rather than just the screwdriver which would give them more time to look for another solution.

Panic would be normal in that situation.  It shouldn't be treated as weakness, but I don't trust Dabb and co. not to frame it this way. 

We know that we have "other Sam" coming up.  It has to be episode 12 or 13, because I think they had just started filming the 300th when they made that announcement.

[ILoveReading]

300 episode photos.

It looks like Sam and Mary get tenderness from John, but why does it look like John is betrating Dean.  (photo 14)  That is the pose Dean adopts when someone is lecturing him.  Hopefully its just the photo.

Also with Deans' sacrifice I hope its not a bait and switch, where what Dean read in the book was about Sam (for some stupid reason) and Dean came up with idea to build the box as a way to protect Sam, then once again it would be framed as Dean sacrificing himself for Sam rather than the world.

Edited January 28, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

Quote

It looks like Sam and Mary get tenderness from John, but why does it look like John is betrating Dean.  (photo 14)  That is the pose Dean adopts when someone is lecturing him.  Hopefully its just the photo.

Hope so, too. I mean, I couldn`t handle it if even the Ice Queen gets the lovey-dovey feelings but Dean gets lectured/berated. Give it a rest, Dabb.

[Myrelle]

Yeah, not thrilled with those Dean pics at all.

And I just read another article(TV line, I think) wherein JP again said that if Sam were to die after episode 300, he thinks he would be okay because he's getting closure(and apparently not just with John).

IDK, but just going by the promotional articles we've  been given so far, this one doesn't sound like much of a Dean episode at all. It almost sounds as if his biggest role in it was to just make the wish.

And I'm now even more leery of the bait and switch coming.

Ugh. I wish I didn't still care about Dean as much as I do. It would make it so much easier to just forget about all of this stuff in between the episodes.

[ILoveReading]

Look at the difference between John's interaction with Sam and John's interaction with Dean.  One looks like "Im proud of you son."  The other looks like , we're back to General John and blunt instrument Dean

[juppschmitz]

28 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Ugh. I wish I didn't still care about Dean as much as I do.

I'm right with you there.

[ILoveReading]

50 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Ugh. I wish I didn't still care about Dean as much as I do. It would make it so much easier to just forget about all of this stuff in between the episodes.

Adding my name to this list

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

IDK, but just going by the promotional articles we've  been given so far, this one doesn't sound like much of a Dean episode at all. It almost sounds as if his biggest role in it was to just make the wish.

But a lot of people thought the same thing after the promotional shots and descriptions of the midseason opener, and that very much turned out to be a Dean-heavy episode.

As I've said before, I don't think we can really only go by the promos to decide what an episode is going to be like anymore. They just seem to be really bad at it... unless they are going for total surprise, in which case: good job?

[ILoveReading]

22 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

But a lot of people thought the same thing after the promotional shots and descriptions of the midseason opener, and that very much turned out to be a Dean-heavy episode.

will respond in Bitch/Jerk

[catrox14]

I wonder if the body language between John and Dean is because John is thinking of sacrificing himself instead of Dean? I mean I could see that being a thing.

Or hopefully, Dean is on guard because of his own resentments. If he doesn't trust why John is alive at all he might take that body labguage. Hmmmm...

[trudysmom]

I don't have a clue about what's going on emotionally, except that they are all emotional.  Sammy has an owie on his nose and since when are there fancy candle holders on the table in the bunker?  I'm so tired that's all that jumped out at me, lol. 

[ILoveReading]

Not that I really believed it was, but the 300th cant' be a hallcination, because if it was that mean that Sam, and Mary weren't really getting closure with John.  Just in Dean's imagination.  I doubt Jared would say that Sam can die happy if it never really happened.

As for Dean and John, I've only seen one article state that there is a moment between them.  I dont' think the term closure was mentioned.

[MysteryGuest]

On 1/27/2019 at 6:16 PM, ahrtee said:

No, Dean's original plan was to keep the mark and be sent to another planet or somewhere.  It was Death who insisted on having him kill Sam, not to prevent him from transferring the mark but to prevent Sam from rescuing him.

Dean's original plan was to have Death kill him, but that wasn't going to work, so Death gave him another option, which included the need to kill Sam, and the reason why.  Dean agreed with Death right up until he killed Death.  I know that Dean wasn't aware that Sam had arranged for the spell to be done.  So if (or should I say when) they decide that Dean doesn't need to sacrifice himself because there's another way, or Dean does sacrifice himself, but Sam and Cas rescue him, or whichever way they manage to dodge having one of them die permanently, it won't be any different than all of the other times they have saved each other, world-ending consequences be damned.  It's what they do.  But whatever happens, Dean's cowardice will not be the reason for it.  Nor will he outwardly say "fuck the world, I don't want to be stuck with Michael for the rest of eternity".  It will come about like it always does, and they will reassure themselves that they will deal with whatever the consequences are, just like they always do.  

[MysteryGuest]

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Look at the difference between John's interaction with Sam and John's interaction with Dean.  One looks like "Im proud of you son."  The other looks like , we're back to General John and blunt instrument Dean

I'll wait to see the episode before I panic.  This is just one frame of a scene.  I have no doubt that Dean will get his share of sentimental interaction with John, though it will probably be different than Sam's, as they're relationships were different.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Not that I really believed it was, but the 300th cant' be a hallcination, because if it was that mean that Sam, and Mary weren't really getting closure with John.  Just in Dean's imagination.  I doubt Jared would say that Sam can die happy if it never really happened.

As for Dean and John, I've only seen one article state that there is a moment between them.  I dont' think the term closure was mentioned.

Going by the body language in those two Dean and John pics, I'd almost say that they look like equals in the one, but in the other I'm also wondering if John isn't either laying another guilt trip on Dean or another "secret". Or both.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Myrelle

[Res]

6 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Adding my name to this list

Same here.

[Ninamags]

18 hours ago, trudysmom said:

since when are there fancy candle holders on the table in the bunker?  I'm so tired that's all that jumped out at me, lol. 

Plus cloth napkins!!! Placed on laps!!!! I wonder who cooked? 

That's about as far as I'm willing to analyze this episode until I've seen it. 

[ILoveReading]

I have a bad feeling about this ep and this doesn't help.  I think Dean wants Sam and Cas to stop him, and they are going to have him wimp out at the end.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I have a bad feeling about this ep and this doesn't help.  I think Dean wants Sam and Cas to stop him, and they are going to have him wimp out at the end.

Yeah, that gives me bad vibes. Especially the "I don`t need to be shaking on this" "Wouldn`t be the worst thing" dialogue. This sounds like the pay-off for this could be cowardice. Which, no, Sam, it would be the worst thing. 

[gonzosgirrl]

As much as I have zero faith in Dabb or the writers (save Yockey), I have confidence that Jensen won't let them make Dean chicken out, and that's not the vibe I got from the clip. I see Dean, (for once, thankfully), not wanting to die but knowing he has to. I don't see wanting or needing them not to make it harder on him by questioning it, as weakness or cowardice. He's a human being after all.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

As much as I have zero faith in Dabb or the writers (save Yockey), I have confidence that Jensen won't let them make Dean chicken out, and that's not the vibe I got from the clip. I see Dean, (for once, thankfully), not wanting to die but knowing he has to. I don't see wanting or needing them not to make it harder on him by questioning it, as weakness or cowardice. He's a human being after all.

I have no problem with the sentiment. It is absolutely natural for him to be terrified and bravery is not the absence of fear but overcoming it. Even the promo clip where he clearly is terrified within the box, totally natural. Just the "Sam...Sammy" from the promo makes me utterly paranoid right now.

I believe the point of the episode overall in terms of Dean`s storyline will be to let go of the box idea for some reason. And they need to tread carefully on that because of what is at stake. Say Sam gets to be a prophet (if only for a portion or just becomes one for some cockamamie reason) and he has the vision and thinks "oh, Dean won`t be able to hack it, I better sabotage the plan", they would still have that reflect negatively on Dean for being "too wimpy". And portray Sam as the saviour. 

This is just a potential mine-field. 

 

edit:  The phone says "call in progress" when the battery dies so maybe he hears something bad happening on the other end? Which, yeah, would be eye-roll-y, too, and how would he get out of the ipenetrable box once he is inside? So maybe it is a prophetic vision and he sees that the box plan will not go to plan. I hope for something like this.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Aeryn13

[Bobcatkitten]

I assume some sort of new information will change the plan at the last minute - possibly related to the prophet stuff. And as Gonzosgirrl pointed out, it's not weak to not want to die. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Bobcatkitten

[ILoveReading]

14 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I assume some sort of new information will change the plan at the last minute - possibly related to the prophet stuff. And as Gonzosgirrl pointed out, it's not weak to not want to die. 

No its normal to not want to die.  But if Dean decides he's to scared to go though with it, he'll look weak in terms of story telling, especially since Sam didn't hesitate to jump when he had to make this choice.  If they can come up with a better way, like Rowena can reinforce the wall to give them more time, or something like that.  But if Dean breaks and begs to be rescued I don't see how the show avoids Dean coming across as a coward. 

[Bergamot]

36 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

As much as I have zero faith in Dabb or the writers (save Yockey), I have confidence that Jensen won't let them make Dean chicken out, and that's not the vibe I got from the clip. I see Dean, (for once, thankfully), not wanting to die but knowing he has to. I don't see wanting or needing them not to make it harder on him by questioning it, as weakness or cowardice. He's a human being after all.

To me, the sneak peek comes across not so much as being about Dean not wanting to die this way, but mostly as Dean wondering what is up with Sam. It's just a brief scene, of course, but Sam does seem remarkably calm here to me, almost like he already knows he doesn't need to worry. If it seems that way to Dean as well, maybe that's why he is worrying whether Sam has planned some way to stop him.

In the promo, we see Cas saying angrily, "Stop this suicidal plan!" If Dean is already on his way to carry out his plan, and he hasn't said anything to Cas, then at what point is Cas saying that? Did Sam tell him on his own? If he did, why would he not tell Dean? Or is Cas not talking to Dean when he says this?

We still have almost half a season to go, so obviously it is not time yet for a season-ending cliffhanger. Something must happen that changes things, but I don't know what.