These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[ILoveReading]

Based on little teases, promo pics, spoilers and complaints, I think I've pieced together what happens in the premier.

It opens with the comic con clip, of Michael confronting the praying man.

Then we get the title card and we see Sam returning to the bunker all tired out from searching for Dean.  It's two or 3 weeks later.   (Because using a tell rather than a show is pure laziness and these writers specialty.)  Instead of letting poor little Sammy rest he's bombard by AU hunters wanting to know what a traffic light is and how do they flush the toilet. (This isn't spoiler, just spec on my part).

Based on Sam Smith saying Mary and Sam get a chance to bond, Mary will tell Sam to rest. 

Cas will have a few scenes with Jack and this is where Cas will have his revelation that he really is loved, because apparently only chats with the antichrist can make this real for Cas, not Dean saying and demonstrating it over and over.  Cas will run off. 

He meets with a demon and tries to make some kind of Dean.  He gets in over his head and is captured and beat up. 

This will be about the half way point.   Coming back after commercial break we'll get the scene with Michael and Anael. Exposition, Exposition, Exposition.    Because Michael is supposed to be a bad ass arch angel I'm sure Anael will be majorly sassy to him and Michael will be impressed rather than killing her. 

Monologuing Demon scene about how dumb Cas is and how predictable the Winchester are.  Just long enough for Sam and the AU hunters to ride to Cas's rescue.  Major Sam speechifying and rescusing Cas.

End scene.  Sam and Cas wondering if its hopeless because ultimately they don't have faith that Dean will fight.  Mary saying they have to keep hope alive. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by ILoveReading

[Res]

10 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Based on little teases, promo pics, spoilers and complaints, I think I've pieced together what happens in the premier.

It opens with the comic con clip, of Michael confronting the praying man.

Then we get the title card and we see Sam returning to the bunker all tired out from searching for Dean.  It's two or 3 weeks later.   (Because using a tell rather than a show is pure laziness and these writers specialty.)  Instead of letting poor little Sammy rest he's bombard by AU hunters wanting to know what a traffic light is and how do they flush the toilet. (This isn't spoiler, just spec on my part).

Based on Sam Smith saying Mary and Sam get a chance to bond, Mary will tell Sam to rest. 

Cas will have a few scenes with Jack and this is where Cas will have his revelation that he really is loved, because apparently only chats with the antichrist can make this real for Cas, not Dean saying and demonstrating it over and over.  Cas will run off. 

He meets with a demon and tries to make some kind of Dean.  He gets in over his head and is captured and beat up. 

This will be about the half way point.   Coming back after commercial break we'll get the scene with Michael and Anael. Exposition, Exposition, Exposition.    Because Michael is supposed to be a bad ass arch angel I'm sure Anael will be majorly sassy to him and Michael will be impressed rather than killing her. 

Monologuing Demon scene about how dumb Cas is and how predictable the Winchester are.  Just long enough for Sam and the AU hunters to ride to Cas's rescue.  Major Sam speechifying and rescusing Cas.

End scene.  Sam and Cas wondering if its hopeless because ultimately they don't have faith that Dean will fight.  Mary saying they have to keep hope alive. 

How said is it that for a moment that I thought this was an actual summary for the premiere and was already eye-rolling as well as starting to delete it. (Yes, it's been that kind of day.)

[ILoveReading]

Mark Pellegrino was spotted in Vancouver. 

Either Lucifer is back or Michael has a new vessel.

Which means the story has just become about Sam and his trauma. 

[Res]

21 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Mark Pellegrino was spotted in Vancouver. 

Either Lucifer is back or Michael has a new vessel.

Which means the story has just become about Sam and his trauma. 

Yeah, I'm not watching live or probably at all this season. I might binge at the end of the season but I doubt it.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Res

[SueB]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Mark Pellegrino was spotted in Vancouver. 

Either Lucifer is back or Michael has a new vessel.

Which means the story has just become about Sam and his trauma. 

Or flashback. Because Sam is trying to relate to Dean? 

[Myrelle]

1 minute ago, SueB said:

Or flashback. Because Sam is trying to relate to Dean? 

Ugh. I hope not. Talk about making the Michael!Dean storyline All About Sam. That would take the cake for me.

I honestly cannot think of one good reason/scenario for Pellegrino to be brought back, but I'm sure Dabb and co. can think of a million.

[gonzosgirrl]

55 minutes ago, Res said:

Yeah, I'm not watching live or probably at all this season. I might binge at the end of the season but I doubt it.

The bitch of it is, if there isn't a lot of tweeting/excitement over the premiere and Michael/Dean, the blame won't be placed where it belongs (on Dabb), it'll be used against Jensen.

6 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Ugh. I hope not. Talk about making the Michael!Dean storyline All About Sam. That would take the cake for me.

There is zero chance this won't happen. It already has, regardless of Pellegrino's possible involvement.

[Myrelle]

I'm sure that Jensen's performance will be lauded, but the PR stuff is beyond disappointing and anything else I'd have to say about that would belong in The B vs J thread.

22 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

There is zero chance this won't happen. It already has, regardless of Pellegrino's possible involvement.

Again, I could not agree more, but Jensen or no Jensen, that specific scenario would spell the end of my viewing days, for sure.

[Casseiopeia]

57 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I honestly cannot think of one good reason/scenario for Pellegrino to be brought back, but I'm sure Dabb and co. can think of a million.

Didn't MP say that Lucifer might be dead but Nick might not be?  I'm guessing Buck/Lemming/Dabb will think of some way to bring Pellegrino back in order to give closure to their favorite actor....because why kill a character that has long overstayed his relevance.

[Bobcatkitten]

I think Lucifer might be running the Empty. That's my guess anyway.

[Myrelle]

On 10/2/2018 at 12:27 PM, Pondlass1 said:

The viewer demographic has changed over the years to a younger and much less sophisticated and demanding group (IMO I don't have stats of course - just going by tweets and con questions).

 

On 10/2/2018 at 1:50 PM, catrox14 said:

There was an interview that Dabb gave, I think during  SDCC, wherein he said they had to make SPN less complicated (as if it were all that complicated now). To me that is basically him saying they are dumbing down the show.  IMO, it's code for less mythology more Soapernatural.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/supernatural/news/a864192/supernatural-season-14-short-season-episodes-reduced/
 

LOL.

*The utter irony of Buckner talking about disjointed episodes (from prior seasons). DUDE, it's you and your writing partner who have written the MOST DISJOINTED and CANON and CHARACTER destroying episodes than just about anyone in the show leaves me cold.

**Um, yeah, Andrew...IT IS bad when you dumb down the show, dumb down characters ....

Argh.

These are the conclusions that I've come to concerning the show under Dabb, Singer, and all the writers under them also. Beren's commentary on the nature vs nurture segment on the S13 DVDs bears this out , too, IMO.

They are all writing predominantly to a tween mindset, IMO, even while the more general viewing fandom might still not have predominantly become that yet; but(again IMO), that mindset permeates Twitter big-time and more than any other mindset now. I very recently went back on again to help the Deanfan cause in S14, this after having left it entirely for an extended length of time, and tbh, the thoughts above are the uppermost thoughts that I've come away with.  And what's surprised me more than anything is the number of wincester-bibros on there now. It's like their playground, so it doesn't surprise me that the feedback posted here from that premiere came from that subset of the fandom (in two of the three cases for sure). So it won't surprise me in the least if the premiere winds up being geared more towards that particular subset of the fandom as they seem to be the ones doing most of the interacting on Twitter and possibly even at these type of very expensive events that are opened to the public. Tumblr isn't as bad to me, but that might be because I've learned to navigate it a bit and weed out the blogs I don't need or want to see/read and maybe you can do that on twitter, too, but I'm not sure yet.

One thing seems crystal clear to me, though, after having just checked it out. I now truly believe that Dabb, Singer, and all of the writers are catering to Twitter more than any other social media outlet, and that, more than anything else explains these spoilers we're getting for S14 and further, it's what's turning the show into just another CW tween melodrama-and yes, Dabb dumbing it all down while naming it "less complicated" is part and parcel of a changeover involving those things.

And man, that's  so sad to  me because this show used to be so much more than that, and that was what drew me into it. It's the only show I've ever watched on the CW, so to see it go down the road that Dabb's taking it is so hard; and to have to admit that the actors are complicit in it too, has been even harder for me.

I'll likely watch the premiere because I have been waiting for over 10 years to see Jensen play the Archangel Michael and, as little of him as we're probably going to get, I still think that it's very likely he could steal this one and probably ep. 2, too, out from under every other character and their storylines that Dabb and co. have been trying with all their might to shove down our throats all summer long.

[SueB]

12 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Ugh. I hope not. Talk about making the Michael!Dean storyline All About Sam. That would take the cake for me.

I honestly cannot think of one good reason/scenario for Pellegrino to be brought back, but I'm sure Dabb and co. can think of a million.

Or Pelligrino has another gig on another show in Vancouver.  

[ILoveReading]

12 hours ago, SueB said:

Or flashback. Because Sam is trying to relate to Dean? 

Making Dean's trauma all about Sam is something these writers do, but I checked Jason's board and there are no scenes coded as flashbacks. 

[Myrelle]

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

Or Pelligrino has another gig on another show in Vancouver.  

I'll pray for this.

[gonzosgirrl]

50 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

 

These are the conclusions that I've come to concerning the show under Dabb, Singer, and all the writers under them also. Beren's commentary on the nature vs nurture segment on the S13 DVDs bears this out , too, IMO.

They are all writing predominantly to a tween mindset, IMO, even while the more general viewing fandom might still not have predominantly become that yet; but(again IMO), that mindset permeates Twitter big-time and more than any other mindset now. I very recently went back on again to help the Deanfan cause in S14, this after having left it entirely for an extended length of time, and tbh, the thoughts above are the uppermost thoughts that I've come away with.  And what's surprised me more than anything is the number of wincester-bibros on there now. It's like their playground, so it doesn't surprise me that the feedback posted here from that premiere came from that subset of the fandom (in two of the three cases for sure). So it won't surprise me in the least if the premiere winds up being geared more towards that particular subset of the fandom as they seem to be the ones doing most of the interacting on Twitter and possibly even at these type of very expensive events that are opened to the public. Tumblr isn't as bad to me, but that might be because I've learned to navigate it a bit and weed out the blogs I don't need or want to see/read and maybe you can do that on twitter, too, but I'm not sure yet.

One thing seems crystal clear to me, though, after having just checked it out. I now truly believe that Dabb, Singer, and all of the writers are catering to Twitter more than any other social media outlet, and that, more than anything else explains these spoilers we're getting for S14 and further, it's what's turning the show into just another CW tween melodrama-and yes, Dabb dumbing it all down while naming it "less complicated" is part and parcel of a changeover involving those things.

And man, that's  so sad to  me because this show used to be so much more than that, and that was what drew me into it. It's the only show I've ever watched on the CW, so to see it go down the road that Dabb's taking it is so hard; and to have to admit that the actors are complicit in it too, has been even harder for me.

I'll likely watch the premiere because I have been waiting for over 10 years to see Jensen play the Archangel Michael and, as little of him as we're probably going to get, I still think that it's very likely he could steal this one and probably ep. 2, too, out from under every other character and their storylines that Dabb and co. have been trying with all their might to shove down our throats all summer long.

Co-signed. This is the essence of my complaints and something I dearly wish TPTB were (or could be made) cognizant of. For all its 'CW'ness, we once had a smart, scary, thoughtful adult show. Now we have Soapernatural. The suits want their young demo numbers and DGAF about those of us outside that box.

[Pondlass1]

I think Dabb has made the show more complicated.  Too many storylines, too many characters and no one knows who can do what these days in terms of powers.  Everyone is super powered at the debut and then when their powers get in the way of plot there's some feeble reason why they can't heal or transport any more.

Then there's editing under Dabb.  Why must profound weighty scenes be interrupted with something else going on?  Who okays editing?  It's so choppy and takes us out of the moment we're relishing at the time.  It's very noticeable compared to early seasons.

So much is wrong under Dabb's hands.  I could write a book.  

[Myrelle]

39 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Then there's editing under Dabb.  Why must profound weighty scenes be interrupted with something else going on?  Who okays editing?  It's so choppy and takes us out of the moment we're relishing at the time.  It's very noticeable compared to early seasons.

Taking to the writers thread

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I think Lucifer might be running the Empty. That's my guess anyway.

There really shouldn't be any way to resurrect him unless, since he was killed by the archangel blade.  Of course, I can totally see Dabb fucking over Cas in the narrative by making it that since he demanded to be sent back it broke the Empty Keeper. And really Lucifer shouldn't have any power and if they fuck with canon again by having him still have nephilim grace which keeps him alive, then I'll just totally give up on this show. I mean at that point, they might as well just give Pellegrino top billing because then I'll know for sure they don't give a fuck about Dean, Sam or Cas.

13 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Didn't MP say that Lucifer might be dead but Nick might not be?  I'm guessing Buck/Lemming/Dabb will think of some way to bring Pellegrino back in order to give closure to their favorite

They won't give Lucifer closure. No way, no how.  They kept the character alive in other vessels and then had Crowley be a complete nincompoop just to  get him back into the Pellegrino suit.  IMO they think he's so super special they won't be able to resist keeping him around as a series regular again.

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I'll likely watch the premiere because I have been waiting for over 10 years to see Jensen play the Archangel Michael and

Sadly, this isn't even THE OG Archangel Michael.  He's still in the cage.  I have one lingering faint hope, that maybe Dean offers himself to OG Michael after AU Michael vacates him into Lucifer which is the only reason I can see for him still being around.

IF and this is probably the biggest most illogical SWAG I've ever put out there, (other than my correct theory of Crowley squirreling away the Nicksuit)  but IF somehow the big twist this season is that AU Michael goes into the Nicksuit and OG Michael goes into Dean because that's how Dean thinks he can redeem himself, and OG Michael beats AU Michael, I will give them ALL the credit. 

Fat chance it happens though, I mean lets be real.  But I'm hoping still.  I hate me sometimes that I can't give up on this dumb show because of Jensen. LOL

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

I think Dabb has made the show more complicated.  Too many storylines, too many characters and no one knows who can do what these days in terms of powers.  Everyone is super powered at the debut and then when their powers get in the way of plot there's some feeble reason why they can't heal or transport any more

IMO, Dabb really meant he made Dean, Sam and Cas' SL "less complicated" i.e. making them all dumb for no good reasons and gave those to Lucifer and Jack.  Because really at this point, this has become the Lucifernatural even more than Soapernatural.  IMO, Lucifer has been the main character for 2 seasons and I don't see that stopping any time soon. 

[gonzosgirrl]

 

If  you're interested in Mean! my advice is, don't blink.

[Bobcatkitten]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 

If  you're interested in Mean! my advice is, don't blink.

I will scarf up every second. Did you see him in the tux?!?!

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I will scarf up every second. Did you see him in the tux?!?!

I think that might be Michael talking to Dean?

[Myrelle]

Was that Dean sitting on the bed with his back to the camera?

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Myrelle said:

Was that Dean sitting on the bed with his back to the camera?

Hard to tell - it might be - that white shirt could be Michael's, post-ousting.

[Bobcatkitten]

18 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think that might be Michael talking to Dean?

Definitely Michael talking to Dean. Whoo hoo!

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Definitely Michael talking to Dean. Whoo hoo!

At least one of my 'wants' comes through. That's something. I just hope Dean is 'fighting' inside, and not merely going along for the ride.

[gonzosgirrl]

31 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Was that Dean sitting on the bed with his back to the camera?

Guesses?

[Myrelle]

It's friggin' Pellegrino. Damn it.

The other one, too.

Those aren't Jensen's shoulders.

I'd bet the ranch that they're going to park Michael in "Nick" so Pellegrino gets to play both arch angels live for extended periods of time, while JA gets to play him for a measly two episodes. Nice.

I hope he studies Jensen's Michael. He's going to be a tough act to follow.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Myrelle

[ILoveReading]

14 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

It's friggin' Pellegrino. Damn it.

The other one, too.

Those aren't Jensen's shoulders.

I'd bet the ranch that they're going to park Michael in "Nick" so Pellegrino gets to play both arch angels live for extended periods of time, while JA gets to play him for a measly two episodes. Nice.

I hope he studies Jensen's Michael. He's going to be a tough act to follow.

Its sad that the one thing Jensen asked for, to play the character long enough to develop him, they couldn't even give him that. 

[Myrelle]

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Its sad that the one thing Jensen asked for, to play the character long enough to develop him, they couldn't even give him that. 

It sucks out loud. Really.

[tessathereaper]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Guesses?

I'd say that's definitely Pellegrino, his ears are a dead give away.

[catrox14]

So Mean shows up where Sam and Mary are. And is Sam flirting with that girl at end?

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Its sad that the one thing Jensen asked for, to play the character long enough to develop him, they couldn't even give him that. 

I've said from the beginning of his run that Dabb becoming showrunner is the worst thing to ever happen to Dean. I guess that extends to Jensen as well.

I cannot can all too easily believe they are bringing Pellegrino back again. I swear he must have something on Dabb or Singer. Or else it's the most epic man-crush in the history of ever.

Edited October 4, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[gonzosgirrl]

13 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

I'd say that's definitely Pellegrino, his ears are a dead give away.

Apparently he said in a meet & greet to 'consider his death more Rowena than Crowley'.

This show. Ugh.

At this point I can only hope he's back as Nick's meatsuit, because if he's still Lucifer, then they have completely screwed over Dean's character again. But there's no reason for 'Nick' to be in a Devil's Trap, so...

Edited October 5, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[ukgirl71]

Given this context, gotta love Jensen for his criticism of when he's been short-changed with significant storylines (DemonDean, and the 'Team America' aerial fight).  Although, it may well have back-fired on him with what's about to unfold?

[Myrelle]

24 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Apparently he said in a meet & greet to 'consider his death more Rowena than Crowley'.

This show. Ugh.

At this point I can only hope he's back as Nick's meatsuit, because if he's still Lucifer, then they have completely screwed over Dean's character again. But there's no reason for 'Nick' to be in a Devil's Trap, so...

Ugh! is right, but how typical of this lot.

If it is Nick, the Devil's Trap could just be a precaution, though.

Man, if they bring Lucifer back I am going to be so pissed off.  

[ahrtee]

28 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

At this point I can only hope he's back as Nick's meatsuit, because if he's still Lucifer, then they have completely screwed over Dean's character again. But there's no reason for 'Nick' to be in a Devil's Trap, so...

In theory, there's no reason for Lucifer to be in a Devil's Trap either, since it doesn't work on angels (but that would require the writers to remember that.) 

[catrox14]

IMO, Sam and Jack or maybe Jack on his own, scavenged the Nicksuit. I won't be surprised if they had him completely alive by the power of Jack's grace, so they take him to the bunker.

[catrox14]

I rewatched that trailer and I am really irritated that it's called "A Better World". Is that because Dean isn't in it? Or becuase Michael thinks he's making a better world and it's ironic. Or its a better world than the AW for the refugees, which BTW, fuck Au Bobby. What a dick! He made thus big speech about going back to save everyone else but is fine with staying in this world to make googly eyes at Mary. I'm sure they'll give him an out by saying there is no way to open a rift now and then he'll feel bad about them but oh well what can he do but hunt on this side.

[Bobcatkitten]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I rewatched that trailer and I am really irritated that it's called "A Better World". Is that because Dean isn't in it? Or becuase Michael thinks he's making a better world and it's ironic. Or its a better world than the AW for the refugees, which BTW, fuck Au Bobby. What a dick! He made thus big speech about going back to save everyone else but is fine with staying in this world to make googly eyes at Mary. I'm sure they'll give him an out by saying there is no way to open a rift now and then he'll feel bad about them but oh well what can he do but hunt on this side.

I am taking it as Michael's mission to make a better world. 

[gonzosgirrl]

In the sneak peek clip, Mary asks Sam, "How was Atlanta?" like he went to a conference or a football game or something, not looking for his angel-napped brother. Oy. And then the expository and awkward "I know it's been three weeks". And this, presumably, is the opening scene after the title card. Ugh. If this is the kind of writing and line delivery we can expect in S14, we're doomed.

[catrox14]

21 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

In the sneak peek clip, Mary asks Sam, "How was Atlanta?" like he went to a conference or a football game or something, not looking for his angel-napped brother. Oy. And then the expository and awkward "I know it's been three weeks". And this, presumably, is the opening scene after the title card. Ugh. If this is the kind of writing and line delivery we can expect in S14, we're doomed.

LOL. That was terrible.  And as you pointed out elsewhere that terrible line about taking the brown acid.  As if Sam would know about that brown acid. That is 100% a Dean line said by Sam.  My only hope at this point, is that Sam realizes he's trying to be Dean and there is no reason for him to do so. That he can be a leader in his own way without copying Dean.

[Myrelle]

I cringed at that sneak peek.

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

In the sneak peek clip, Mary asks Sam, "How was Atlanta?" like he went to a conference or a football game or something, not looking for his angel-napped brother. Oy. And then the expository and awkward "I know it's been three weeks". And this, presumably, is the opening scene after the title card. Ugh. If this is the kind of writing and line delivery we can expect in S14, we're doomed.

 

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

LOL. That was terrible.  And as you pointed out elsewhere that terrible line about taking the brown acid.  As if Sam would know about that brown acid. That is 100% a Dean line said by Sam.

and for the same reasons.

And I'm not sure how they're going to handle Sam "missing" Dean and Dean's input into their teamwork, but with these writers dread is best because it leaves more room and space for the less dreadful or harmless especially with "good" or "decent" not really being a viable option at this point for them. IMO, of course.

If they go with the idea that Sam has learned most of his leadership abilities from Dean, we're likely to get more scenes like this one in which, yes, it just looks and sounds like they're trying to put Deanisms into Sam's dialogue, and this whether they're a good fit for the character or not.

OTOH, if someone tries to tell Sam that he's not Dean and should not even attempt to copy Dean's leadership style and just be his own man?-all I can think with that scenario is Yikes! because I can just imagine all the Sam pimping and propping and rhetoric to go along with it that these writers would give us, and that would indelibly go along with something like that, as per their usual writing style-not to mention the added potential of some Dean trashing being thrown in there too-just to reinforce their message that Sam should have always been The Leader.

So yeah, neither scenario really does anything for me-especially if one considers that the acting would have to be stellar in order to overcome the often questionable writing and dialogues within the storylines.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Myrelle

[Res]

27 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I cringed at that sneak peek.

 

and for the same reasons.

And I'm not sure how they're going to handle Sam "missing" Dean and Dean's input into their teamwork, but with these writers dread is best because it leaves more room and space for the less dreadful or harmless especially with "good" or "decent" not really being a viable option at this point for them. IMO, of course.

If they go with the idea that Sam has learned most of his leadership abilities from Dean, we're likely to get more scenes like this one in which, yes, it just looks and sounds like they're trying to put Deanisms into Sam's dialogue, and this whether they're a good fit for the character or not.

OTOH, if someone tries to tell Sam that he's not Dean and should not even attempt to copy Dean's leadership style and just be his own man?-all I can think with that scenario is Yikes! because I can just imagine all the Sam pimping and propping and rhetoric to go along with it that these writers would give us, and that would indelibly go along with something like that, as per their usual writing style-not to mention the added potential of some Dean trashing being thrown in there too-just to reinforce their message that Sam should have always been The Leader.

So yeah, neither scenario really does anything for me-especially if one considers that the acting would have to be stellar in order to overcome the often questionable writing and dialogues within the storylines.

And I have no hope of the bolded part since I haven't really seen that from anyone except Jensen, IMO, of course, and lately, even he is struggling with it. 

 

Does anyone know if they actually play "Wayward Son" as the introduction to the premiere or not? If so, any thoughts on that?

[gonzosgirrl]

15 minutes ago, Res said:

Does anyone know if they actually play "Wayward Son" as the introduction to the premiere or not? If so, any thoughts on that?

Wayward Son generally begins the season finale, not the season premiere. Seriously though, Dabb doesn't deserve to use the history of that song either way.

[ILoveReading]

Based on what Jensen said last weekend about how Dean's PTSD hasn't been addressed or written into scripts I'm thinking that picture of Dean's messy room is more of the messy slob Perez thinks Dean is rather than related to his Michael trauma.

Edited October 6, 2018 by ILoveReading

[ahrtee]

37 minutes ago, SueB said:

Sincere, non-snarky question ... and I don't know what your perspective was beforehand.... what were people expecting when they wanted Dean to say yes to Michael? 

Also non-snarky:  I know I was hoping that the story would focus on Dean/Michael and not Sam learning to be a leader, Jack learning to be human, and Mary/Bobby.  I was hoping that we would get to actually *see* Jensen play Michael and not just in 5-minute increments/flashbacks.  I was hoping we would see a strong Dean fighting Michael (with or without Sam's help) and not another Dean angst-fest or making him "learn" yet another lesson.  I'd even settle for evil Michael trying to destroy the world as long as we got to see Jensen giving depth to the character.  

Bottom line:  I was hoping it would be a Jensen storyline, letting him shine in the spotlight, and not just a foil for the other characters to let them tell their stories.  Maybe it will turn out that way, but everything I've read has been discouraging.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

Sincere, non-snarky question ... and I don't know what your perspective was beforehand.... what were people expecting when they wanted Dean to say yes to Michael? 

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Did they think he was a good guy? Were they shocked when AUMichael double crossed Dean? I don't see how this would ever go any other way...  

BTW, I don't think it was done to push Dean out of the way.  They are ALWAYS looking for some tension/issue to continue to explore both characters.  And they've BLESSEDLY put to bed the boys being at odds with each other over manufactured drama.  So the drama, the tension comes from someplace. Sam's abducted, Dean's possessed, Sam's got an angel as a co-pilot.... finally having Dean be an angel vessel seems like one of the missing spots in "plot bingo".  And I don't mean that in an bad way.  I suppose they still have "Dean is abducted" as an option.  Sam being possessed has kinda been done.  And they've had plenty of external drama (Cas/Mary dead/gone, Jack's existence, Mary back.....).  But those are with the boys basically on the same page -- or working to be even with some disagreement.  Again, thankfully.  

Bottom line: I don't think this storyline is to punish Dean fans.  I think it's supposed to be a good thing.  Whether or not fans like it is a different issue.  But we've still got fans clamoring for a really long arc.  So... IDK... I'm not sure what story would satisfy everyone.   

I was expecting an internal battle to be shown between Dean and Michael. Yes I want the same thing we saw with Sam and Lucifer. I don't want a 3 week jump that ignores the immediate struggle and aftermath of Dean's decision. I want Dean's perspective of why he did what did to be shown on screen I want to see Mean for an extended long look over 4 to 10 episodes and not told in flashbacks.

[belbar]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

Also non-snarky:  I know I was hoping that the story would focus on Dean/Michael and not Sam learning to be a leader, Jack learning to be human, and Mary/Bobby.  I was hoping that we would get to actually *see* Jensen play Michael and not just in 5-minute increments/flashbacks.  I was hoping we would see a strong Dean fighting Michael (with or without Sam's help) and not another Dean angst-fest or making him "learn" yet another lesson.  I'd even settle for evil Michael trying to destroy the world as long as we got to see Jensen giving depth to the character.  

Bottom line:  I was hoping it would be a Jensen storyline, letting him shine in the spotlight, and not just a foil for the other characters to let them tell their stories.  Maybe it will turn out that way, but everything I've read has been discouraging.

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[devlin]

As others have said what I was wanting was for the Michael story to be something for Jensen to sink his teeth into. Words can not describe how much I hate dabb saying dean’s absence allowed others to finally breathe. 

Edited October 7, 2018 by devlin
Heading into b/j territory