These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[catrox14]

 Feel free to not read this post. I'm ranting. Not going to be swayed on this one..

s13 spoiler rant.

I can't with Spawn being behaving like Cas.. I mean unless Spawn imprinted on Cas in utero for...reasons, he has no reason to behave that way.  If anything he should behave like Kelly, The Noble (also really, she's noble? I don't want to even know why Dabb thinks she's noble. I mean I know why, and NOPE. NOPE NOPE

 I don't want Dean parenting Lucifer's spawn at all. Let Sam sink or swim on this one. I fully expect the show to have Sam become a mechanic by the end of this season, because Dean will be a drug addled, alcoholic who can't remember how to fix cars or some other shit.

II see what you are doing, show. I am not amused.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[Myrelle]

I wish I could like your post a gazillion times, Catrox. The spoilers(and especially how and who they were delivered to us by) just made the bile rise in my throat. I was literally sick to my stomach for some time after watching that sneak peek. I wish that I hadn't watched it.

I can't believe that the Js really want to continue on with these bozos. Hopefully, there will be some kind of intervention that prevents it.

[companionenvy]

But is Jack behaving like Cas, specifically, or is he just in a parallel situation? Granted, it never made total sense that Cas was so much less adept at reading humanity than most of the other angels, but it is to be expected that someone who has adult intelligence but zero actual experience of the world wouldn't understand things like sarcasm, social cues, etc. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[catrox14]

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But is Jack behaving like Cas, specifically, or is he just in a parallel situation? Granted, it never made total sense that Cas was so much less adept at reading humanity than most of the other angels, but it is to be expected that someone who has adult intelligence but zero actual experience of the world wouldn't understand things like sarcasm, social cues, etc. 

I could get on board with that reading if not for the fact that Lucifer and Kelly and President Jeff are actually Spawn's gene pool. None of them are weirdly awkward that I could see. If they say that Cas somehow influenced Spawn in utero, why does it have to be Cas' awkward phase. Also, when Cas first came to Earth, which actually wasn't actually weird or even that literal.  He was scary, powerful, a bit literal but the awkward borderline childlike/stupid Cas was something that appeared in later seasons not upon arrival to Earth. Sidebar: I wish they had not done that with Cas TBH but whatever.

Anyway, IMO Cas from up through s12 IMO was no longer awkward, especially after the data dump from  Metatron. As of S12 he seemed to have mastered sarcasm as well both understanding it and giving it. Like when he told Mary ", No I don't have a harp" . IMO that wasn't Cas being weird and awkward he was trying to be serious with Dean's mother, and IMO was not in the mood for Dean's humor right then. And later when Dean and Cas had their married couple  spat over Ishim, Cas was giving as good as he got from Dean in the sarcasm spectrum, (which is why I thought maybe Lucifer had influenced him but I digress).  Shouldn't that be the Cas that is reflected in Spawn now? Since that is the Cas that he would have "bonded" with if that happened? No. to me this is a blatant ripoff of Cas and I don't take it as an homage. It offends me as a Cas fan.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[companionenvy]

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I could get on board with that reading if not for the fact that Lucifer and Kelly and President Jeff are actually Spawn's gene pool. None of them are weirdly awkward that I could see. If they say that Cas somehow influenced Spawn in utero, why does it have to be Cas' awkward phase. Also, when Cas first came to Earth, which actually wasn't actually weird or even that literal.  He was scary, powerful, a bit literal but the awkward borderline childlike/stupid Cas was something that appeared in later seasons not upon arrival to Earth. Sidebar: I wish they had not done that with Cas TBH but whatever.

Anyway, IMO Cas from up through s12 IMO was no longer awkward, especially after the data dump from  Metatron. As of S12 he seemed to have mastered sarcasm as well both understanding it and giving it. Like when he told Mary ", No I don't have a harp" . IMO that wasn't Cas being weird and awkward he was trying to be serious with Dean's mother, and IMO was not in the mood for Dean's humor right then. And later when Dean and Cas had their married couple  spat over Ishim, Cas was giving as good as he got from Dean in the sarcasm spectrum, (which is why I thought maybe Lucifer had influenced him but I digress).  Shouldn't that be the Cas that is reflected in Spawn now? Since that is the Cas that he would have "bonded" with if that happened? No. to me this is a blatant ripoff of Cas and I don't take it as an homage. It offends me as a Cas fan.

I should have clarified: I'm hoping that the explanation isn't "Spawn imprinted on Cas," which I agree would be stupid.  In my version, genetics/prenatal influence has nothing to do with it: Jack is the way he is because of his limited experience with the world. It is kind of like a little kid not realizing he shouldn't run around naked - it isn't that the kid is wired for exhibitionism, he just hasn't yet figured out or been taught that people don't do that. The difference is that the latter is a normal developmental stage, whereas in the real world, people don't wind up with the intellect and body of an adult without having first acquired commensurate knowledge. But that's Jack's position, just as it was (to a lesser extent, perhaps) Cas's in his earlier days on Earth.

I agree they've dumbed down Cas over the years, but I think the literal/awkward quality was always there; we just initially see Cas in a context in which it wouldn't have been evident. When Cas was in full-on Warrior of God mode, he was following a script and relying on sheer power to avoid dealing with much in the way of human nonsense. We start seeing Cas as a fish out of water when he's cut off from heaven, to varying degrees, and trying to make sense of an alien culture. Which I didn't mind, and actually found funny - the problem IMO is that they've deprived Cas of his gravitas by making him so ineffective even when he theoretically has a good amount of power. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[trxr4kids]

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I could get on board with that reading if not for the fact that Lucifer and Kelly and President Jeff are actually Spawn's gene pool. None of them are weirdly awkward that I could see. If they say that Cas somehow influenced Spawn in utero, why does it have to be Cas' awkward phase. Also, when Cas first came to Earth, which actually wasn't actually weird or even that literal.  He was scary, powerful, a bit literal but the awkward borderline childlike/stupid Cas was something that appeared in later seasons not upon arrival to Earth. Sidebar: I wish they had not done that with Cas TBH but whatever.

Anyway, IMO Cas from up through s12 IMO was no longer awkward, especially after the data dump from  Metatron. As of S12 he seemed to have mastered sarcasm as well both understanding it and giving it. Like when he told Mary ", No I don't have a harp" . IMO that wasn't Cas being weird and awkward he was trying to be serious with Dean's mother, and IMO was not in the mood for Dean's humor right then. And later when Dean and Cas had their married couple  spat over Ishim, Cas was giving as good as he got from Dean in the sarcasm spectrum, (which is why I thought maybe Lucifer had influenced him but I digress).  Shouldn't that be the Cas that is reflected in Spawn now? Since that is the Cas that he would have "bonded" with if that happened? No. to me this is a blatant ripoff of Cas and I don't take it as an homage. It offends me as a Cas fan.

It's like they killed Cas off only to replace him with Cas 2.0. They've also decided to give Mary a purgatory 2.0 remix. Both fill me with loathing. And of course Dean gets to be a sad, drink and do feelings wrong. <eye roll to infinity>

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[catrox14]

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It's like they killed Cas off only to replace him with Cas 2.0. They've also decided to give Mary a purgatory 2.0 remix. Both fill me with loathing. And of course Dean gets to be a sad, drink and do feelings wrong. <eye roll to infinity>

That's why I don't think Cas is coming back as himself. I still think Cas as we have known him is dead and gone and they think they can put Spawn in to pretend to be Cas as though that's going to suffice.  I am glad though that Dean is side eying Spawn like none other. I hope Dean is bothered immensely by him behaving like Cas that he yells at him and tells him "You're not Cas!" .

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[Casseiopeia]

I thought the Noble part was pretty funny too.  That's one way to describe her I guess.  Jensen pretty much confirmed that at least through E7 it will be My 3 Dads and an evil spawn sitcom.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[trxr4kids]

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That's why I don't think Cas is coming back as himself. I still think Cas as we have known him is dead and gone and they think they can put Spawn in to pretend to be Cas as though that's going to suffice.  I am glad though that Dean is side eying Spawn like none other. I hope Dean is bothered immensely by him behaving like Cas that he yells at him and tells him "You're not Cas!" .’

Another thing I find bothersome (shocking, I know ) is that Sam again seems to want to use/manipulate something, in this case the spawn, that he can't hope to control. I don't know if it's more reminiscent of the demon blood/ Ruby fiasco or the book of the damned debacle. It smacks of hubris to me but I suppose it could just be desperation over riding common sense. Of course they actually do have to do something with him either way (keep him or try to kill him) since they can't just say, fly away, be free devil spawn.

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I thought the Noble part was pretty funny too.  That's one way to describe her I guess.  Jensen pretty much confirmed that at least through E7 it will be My 3 Dads and an evil spawn sitcom.

I just can't with this bullshit.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[catrox14]

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I thought the Noble part was pretty funny too.  That's one way to describe her I guess.  Jensen pretty much confirmed that at least through E7 it will be My 3 Dads and an evil spawn sitcom.

UGH NOOOO. I hope he's joking about that. And it's him snarking on the whole stupid SL LOL

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[catrox14]

Kelly Kline rant. It's not spoilery for s13 but I'm putting it under spoilers because it has potential triggers for  religion, reproductive rights, and non consensual sex. My post is not intending to offend anyone. I am just posting about what  I think is a shit, horrible SL from the jump that should have never seen the light of day. Singer and Dabb should have been fired by the network for this SL IMO . Don't read if those things upset you.

Why is Kelly noble? Where is the evidence for this? Is she noble because she gave birth to the devil's spawn and died in spawn birth?? Is she noble because she didn't immediately terminate the pregnancy when it was early on? 

But then she starts to realize that yes this might be a bad thing for the world, but instead of terminating the pregnancy in a medical facility and living to see another day, her solution is to kill herself to kill Spawn who magically keeps her alive until she dies in spawn birth ? Really show? Really? WTF. REALLY??!! Is that the noble act? Because she was forced to stay alive by the Devil's spawn? Was she enlightened by the universe to let the Spawn live or is Lucifer compelling her to remain alive. What a bunch of garbage for this show to take on and then not REALLY take the hard look at it.

But YAY, TFW remembers, HEY we can extract the grace to circumvent evil potential but she's all "NOPE 'I'm gonna have this devil baby and he's gonna be good because I just KNOW he's good and he won't be the same without his grace". Really? How is that noble? She's willing to risk the universe because....?

I remember when Jared said Kelly was a good person. What evidence is there that Kelly was a good person? Wasn't she supposed to be a pious religious woman who prayed with the President but then also had sex with him outside of marriage so was she just a complicated woman or a hypocrite or what? But the sad part is that she was raped and the show never addresses it as such. They make a stupid fucking joke about 'She didn't know her boyfriend was the devil".  No, show. Stop doing that. STOP IT.

Cas is fucking dead because of this stupid SL and now we have stupid Cas 2.0?

WHY IS THIS A THING in this show. It's so terrible. I just can't. I just hate this SL from the jump.

I will always hate this SL because the origins are shit and that shit should have never been greenlit. NEVER NEVER NEVER.

 

To Dabb and Singer

 

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 1:51 PM, ahrtee said:

Wow, this is getting confusing, with all the content being hidden.  Maybe we need a "spoiler bitterness" thread (or maybe we don't have to anticipate bitterness, but can wait till it's actually proven?)  Nah--that spoils all the fun of hiatus(es?)  : ) 

Actually this is a great suggestion. PM the mods and ask if we can make one. I'm on board with that plan. I think we should be able to rant about spoilers myself.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[ILoveReading]

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It smacks of hubris to me but I suppose it could just be desperation over riding common sense.

Hubris, for me, is Sam's fatal flaw, but unfortunately it keeps getting rewarded, so I'm expecting a goody too shoes nephilm who will help save the world, along with Sam. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[catrox14]

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Hubris, for me, is Sam's fatal flaw, but unfortunately it keeps getting rewarded, so I'm expecting a goody too shoes nephilm who will help save the world, along with Sam. 

I don't see how else it can end. If they don't give Sam a save here then why go through all of this? I'd rather they take Sam dark side and let him be the main antagonist because then at least there will be stakes instead of looking like the dumb bunny much of the time.  If Sam was foisted on his own petard as the true villain of the piece, I'd give them props. Like make him into Kylo Ren or something LOL. I think Jared plays a good bad guy anyway.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[Myrelle]

I hate having to spoiler tag my posts, but FWIW

I thought that the guest acting in the sneak peek was absolutely atrocious. I was looking for some swiss to go along with all that ham that Asmodeus dished up in it. Yeesh. I wonder if he's supposed to be the comic relief since they've decided to saddle Jensen/Dean with the depression storyline yet again-which makes my bitterness cup overflow, btw, because it's not like they're going to do anything different with it. And I'd bet the ranch that Misery is going to be just the character to set him straight about it this time. Oh joy. Can't wait. <insert sarcasm here>

A Bitterness/Bitch/Jerk Spoiler thread would solve many problems, IMO.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[trxr4kids]

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I thought that the guest acting in the sneak peek was absolutely atrocious. I was looking for some swiss to go along with all that ham that Asmodeus dished up in it. Yeesh. I wonder if he's supposed to be the comic relief since they've decided to saddle Jensen/Dean with the depression storyline yet again-which makes my bitterness cup overflow, btw, because it's not like they're going to do anything different with it. And I'd bet the ranch that Misery is going to be just the character to set him straight about it this time. Oh joy. Can't wait. <insert sarcasm here>

 

I'm agreeing so much with this it's probably not allowed in the bitterness thread.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Whimsy
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[gonzosgirrl]

22 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

I'm agreeing so much with this it's probably not allowed in the bitterness thread.

I would say I *literally* couldn't hate Dabb & Co more, but as sure as I am of that, I'm just as sure they'll find a way to exacerbate it. I hate it so much, I'm almost mad at *Jensen* for going along with it. Dean deserves so much better than this dumpster fire of a writing/showrunner crew.

Edited September 27, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[Whimsy]

You guys asked for it, so here it goes.  This is your topic to discuss your bitterness about the spoilers.  The rules are the same as the Bitterness thread: 

• No debates.  Voice your opinion and move on.  No back and forth and no trying to change other people's minds.
• No bitch vs jerk.  Those posts will get deleted with no warning or discussion

Since this is a Spoiler thread, no spoiler tags are needed from this point forward (I just moved the other posts over here with the spoiler tags attached). 

If this experiment doesn't work, we'll shut down this thread.  

Thanks and happy posting-

Your SPN Mods

[catrox14]

Thanks for creating this thread. Is there a way to remove all the spoiler tags that already exist other than each of us editing our own posts?

1 hour ago, Whimsy said:

You guys asked for it, so here it goes.  This is your topic to discuss your bitterness about the spoilers.  The rules are the same as the Bitterness thread: 

• No debates.  Voice your opinion and move on.  No back and forth and no trying to change other people's minds.
• No bitch vs jerk.  Those posts will get deleted with no warning or discussion

Since this is a Spoiler thread, no spoiler tags are needed from this point forward (I just moved the other posts over here with the spoiler tags attached). 

If this experiment doesn't work, we'll shut down this thread.  

Thanks and happy posting-

Your SPN Mods

[Whimsy]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Thanks for creating this thread. Is there a way to remove all the spoiler tags that already exist other than each of us editing our own posts?

I'll see if I can. 

[catrox14]

Just now, Whimsy said:

I'll see if I can. 

Thank you!

[Whimsy]

I removed the spoiler tags, but in doing so I lost the part where it gave credit to the quoted person.  Sorry. 

[trxr4kids]

Thanks Whimsy!

I don't even know where to begin but like catrox, Jack being an awkward Cas replica, right down to the clothes is just so effed up. The show keeps saying they can't have Cas around all the time because he's too powerful yet they won't commit to depowering him either but the literal spawn of satan who is supposedly more powerful than an archangel is okay to have around them constantly if the spoilers are anything to go by. 

I'm positive that Mary's struggle in the au will be more fleshed out then Dean's was in Purgatory even though it's the same story. Really, is there any Dean storyline/character trait they won't give away, other then depressed, hopeless, alcoholic Dean that is?

Colonel Sanders/Asmodeus is just as annoying to me as Metatron and that's in a few seconds of clips.

Sam, what can be said really. 

[Myrelle]

50 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

I'm positive that Mary's struggle in the au will be more fleshed out then Dean's was in Purgatory even though it's the same story. Really, is there any Dean storyline/character trait they won't give away, other then depressed, hopeless, alcoholic Dean that is?

I'm so pissed off about this. If they give her more than 15 minutes total screentime in the AU, my head is going to explode! I hate Mary Sue Winchester with the fire of ten thousand suns after hearing those spoilers. And Berens couldn't even come up with  a different descriptor. I almost up-chucked when he said that the AU would be "pure" for Mary. This is just the writers yet again trying to push how much they want her to be seen as Dean-like by trying to shove her supposed badassity down our throats. And Singer's wife chiming in with her inane rhetoric about their newest Mary Sue character made me want hurl some more.

So pissed right now I can't see straight, so thanks so much for this thread, Mods. I needed that. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

Edited September 27, 2017 by Myrelle
spelling

[gonzosgirrl]

All I really had to hear is 'Mary isn't intimidated by Lucifer' and 'Dean isn't dealing well' to know just how much I will continue to loathe Dabb and his merry band of awful writers. He has already destroyed the character of Mary for me - now he's just going to make me actively hate her. I can't even find words for how I feel about the Dean 'spoilers'. Heh, I guess when I thought the worst Dabb could do to him was reduce him to comic relief and/or a foil for every other character to reflect humanity and brilliance off of, I should've remembered who I was talking about. 

[trxr4kids]

12 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

All I really had to hear is 'Mary isn't intimidated by Lucifer'

She apparently wasn't intimidated by Azazel either and look how well that worked out for her. Fingers crossed it works out the same way.

 

14 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

He has already destroyed the character of Mary for me - now he's just going to make me actively hate her.

I continue to believe that Dabb and co. are giving us Zachariah's DSotM Mary which he co wrote.

[companionenvy]

I'm not actually as anti-Mary as a lot of fans seem to be -- I think a lot of her struggles last season were understandable -- but it bugs me to no end that the show wants us to see her as this fantastic hunter.

Canonically, Mary was brought up in hunting , but didn't embrace it and apparently also had enough time to go to school, make friends, date, etc. At age 18/19 she quit the biz, and while I had no problem with learning that she took on a few hunts during her marriage, this couldn't possibly have been a frequent thing. 

There's simply no reason, given this background, that she should be some super badass. The show was sometimes over the line in their presentation of her last season, but (IMO) usually kept her from being too much of a Hunter Sue. If they actually go through with what they're saying about her going toe to toe with Lucifer unafraid, it will be a total shark-jump for her character. 

[catrox14]

26 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

There's simply no reason, given this background, that she should be some super badass. The show was sometimes over the line in their presentation of her last season, but (IMO) usually kept her from being too much of a Hunter Sue. If they actually go through with what they're saying about her going toe to toe with Lucifer unafraid, it will be a total shark-jump for her character. 

She already did go toe to toe with him, using the super magical BMOL angel-get-beatdown brass knuckles. I'm guessing she'll just punch her way through the AU using those and Lucifer will be super scared.  RME

Edited September 27, 2017 by catrox14

[SueB]

THANK YOU FOR THIS THREAD.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

She apparently wasn't intimidated by Azazel either and look how well that worked out for her. Fingers crossed it works out the same way.

 

I continue to believe that Dabb and co. are giving us Zachariah's DSotM Mary which he co wrote.

Heh. Never were the words 'I hope you die in a fire' so literally true. Mary Sue Campbell Winchester, indeed. (ty @catrox14) I've seen spec that Lucifer might keep her alive as some kind of bargaining chip or incentive for the brothers to open the rift, but unless there is some way to communicate between the worlds, that makes no sense. As written, he's a spiteful, malicious, spoiled, little prick and Mary just screwed him right out of his son's life.  Unless Lucifer is powered way down, i.e., human, in the AU, then not having him immediately snapping her neck is ridiculous.

Edited September 28, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

I can't understand why they are just standing there having a confab like they aren't mortal enemies. So stupid. She knocked his ass into the AU.

I'm calling it now. Lucifer falls in love with Mary. It's gonna happen, you watch.

ETA: He'll be SO IMPRESSED that this woman wasn't afraid to punch him and he'll think she's just the cat's meow

[Casseiopeia]

There is one part of the vimeo where you can hear Mark Pellegrino call out Mary's name.  Like calling out to her either in warning or for help.  I think at the very least they become allies against the new deconstructed Michael. 

[trxr4kids]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 Unless Lucifer is powered way down, i.e., human, in the AU, then not having him immediately snapping her neck is ridiculous.

Right.

 

53 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I can't understand why they are just standing there having a confab like they aren't mortal enemies. So stupid. She knocked his ass into the AU.

Me either.

 

7 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I think at the very least they become allies against the new deconstructed Michael. 

Oh of course, because Michael is the worst archangel, so much hate.

 

ETA: Missouri Mosley will most likely shame/belittle Dean in some way while propping/praising Sam and the Spawn.

Edited September 28, 2017 by trxr4kids

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

There is one part of the vimeo where you can hear Mark Pellegrino call out Mary's name.  Like calling out to her either in warning or for help.  I think at the very least they become allies against the new deconstructed Michael. 

 It's absurd. I swear to Gods, Dabb's hard on for Lucifer/Mark P is out of control and is going to ruin this show. Mary and Lucifer being allies is I guess one upping Dean and a vampire being allies. 

[gonzosgirrl]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 It's absurd. I swear to Gods, Dabb's hard on for Lucifer/Mark P is out of control and is going to ruin this show. Mary and Lucifer being allies is I guess one upping Dean and a vampire being allies. 

Hey, she already partnered up with the organization who tortured one son and tried to murder the other. Pairing up with Lucifer is a pretty natural progression from there.

But yeah, the show's obsession with taking anything Dean experiences and passing it on in a bigger/badder/better way to another character is getting really old.

2 hours ago, SueB said:

THANK YOU FOR THIS THREAD.

Right? Isn't it awesome?!

[companionenvy]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm calling it now. Lucifer falls in love with Mary. It's gonna happen, you watch.

No! Take it back! Take it back!

[Aeryn13]

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Hey, she already partnered up with the organization who tortured one son and tried to murder the other. Pairing up with Lucifer is a pretty natural progression from there.

But yeah, the show's obsession with taking anything Dean experiences and passing it on in a bigger/badder/better way to another character is getting really old.

From the moment she came back on full time-ish, the actress has been clear on which part of the character she values: the super badass. And to get away from "Mommy in the nightgown". Apparently, the producers were in absolute agreement because this pimping of Mary as some uber-hunter was obnoxious last year. Meanwhile they made the "mother" part as cold and unaccessible as possible. That her being the "mother" was the only reason the character got to come back and thus the part couldn`t be completely shoved to the side? Well, they tried anyway. 

Now they have transported her to a world where they can ignore the unwanted part completely and focus solely on their beloved Mary Sue characterization. Maybe Lucifer and Michael can fight to be her sidekick or somrthing.

As for Dean, the "lower than he has ever been" - seriously, lower than in Season 12??? - alcoholic, depressed emo garbage? Gee, how exciting. If the character never got saddled with emo garbage anymore, it would still be too soon for me.

If at least it manifested like in early Season 2 by being a badass but that word is just not utterred in conjunction with him by these fricking people.  

[ILoveReading]

I rolled my eyes that the "They only have each other."

What about Jody, Donna, Alex, Claire, and Garth?  Not to mention Satan's spawn.  

I'm going to resent Asmodeus every time he's on screen for being Not Crowley.  But the actor's take is going to annoy me even more.   Even the little glimpes were beyond irritating.  As someone on my twitter timeline so aptly put it, "there is more ham and cheese in his acting then in an entire sandwich shop."

What was Dabb talking about when he said that last season they got their mother back.  I'd say they lost her all over again and in a far more painful ways.  Losing Mary hurt, but at least Dean still had those few vague happy memories of a mom who loved him.  Sam didn't remember her at all.  Now, Dean knows those memories were mostly false and both Sam and Dean had Mary reject them.  Even after Dean's big speech Mary refused to see him since she was only concerned about Sam.  They'd have been better off if she'd stayed dead.

17 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I'm so pissed off about this. If they give her more than 15 minutes total screentime in the AU, my head is going to explode! I hate Mary Sue Winchester with the fire of ten thousand suns after hearing those spoilers. And Berens couldn't even come up with  a different descriptor. I almost up-chucked when he said that the AU would be "pure" for Mary. This is just the writers yet again trying to push how much they want her to be seen as Dean-like by trying to shove her supposed badassity down our throats. And Singer's wife chiming in with her inane rhetoric about their newest Mary Sue character made me want hurl some more.

My thoughts exactly.   I'm also going to be resentful if Cas's storyline has to with death or him being a reaper since the show did nothing with Death's death.  (speculation on my part, not an actual spoiler).

It also feels like they're stripping away Dean's big brother role, since mentoring parenting Jack is mostly going to Sam.   (That's not meant in a bitch/jerk context., just part of my bitterness toward Dean "spoilers"\

What will be Dean's role when Cas comes back.  Dean will simply stop being sad. Then what?

Dean- I think this is the exact say way they described him in s7.

[companionenvy]

I think this IS moving into bitch/jerk, and should stop. 

[catrox14]

9 hours ago, companionenvy said:

No! Take it back! Take it back!

Sorry, but I don't think Singer/Dabb/Buck Lemming can resist that kind of stupid SL.

Writer's room:

Singer: So we need to put some romance into the show again.

Yockey: Well we had Eileen and Sam and you killed off Eileen.
Singer: "It's where the story took us. Can't have the boys with long term love interests"

Yockey: But...../Dest... " What about Dean and Donna? They had a spark"

Perez: Who's Dean?

Singer: Nope, no romance for the boys but Dean can horndog after some chick in a bar. Sam will be awkward when a pretty girl hits on him but he'll be smitten and we'll kill her off.

Buckner: Well, Mary had a fling with Ketch, so she must love the danger of sleeping with the frienemy and she's stuck in the AU with Lucifer.

Eugenie: YES! I see where you're going. Let's have Mary seduce Lucifer to get out of Purgatory 2.0!

Buckner: Erm..no I meant Lucifer will really fall in love with Mary and then somehow Mary falls in love with Lucifer and Mary will save the Devil instead!

Dabb: BRILLIANT. Lucifer redeemed! 

Yockey:  /oh my god. Can one of my plays please get turned into a movie so I can get away from these asshats?
Berens: /visions of Jody and Donna and Wayward Sisters dancing in his head.  'Yeah sounds good'

Glynn:  I want to write another funny/sad Dean episode with the bunny again.

BL: Yes, turn Dean into a bunny and he can romance the other bunny.

Glynn: Uh.......what?
BL: You know, like when he was turned into a dog and lusted after the other dog and when he was dogcurious in the great episode we wrote with the witch and the familiar, but this time with bunnies.

Glynn: /texts Yockey. Can you take me when your play is turned into a movie?

Perez: Dean who?
Dabb: Yes, Meredith you can write a funny/sad Dean episode with a bunny but make sure he's altered in some way that ensures he'll need Sam's help but not Cas' because brotherly love.

Yockey: /texting Robbie Thompson and Ben Edlund. Guys....

Singer: Okay, Marifer it is! Or is it Lucimar? 

[trxr4kids]

20 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sorry, but I don't think Singer/Dabb/Buck Lemming can resist that kind of stupid SL.

Lmao

Since Michael is in the au we should worry about a love triangle too.

[Myrelle]

13 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

If at least it manifested like in early Season 2 by being a badass but that word is just not utterred in conjunction with him by these fricking people.  

 

IA. I think we'll get more of the same as we got from Dean in s12 where it concerns badassity-a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing-because that's all that Jensen can do with the drek that these asshat writers/showrunners are giving him to work with.

[ILoveReading]

https://faegal04.tumblr.com/post/165797931184/is-this-benny-it-looks-like-benny

It looks like Mary is even getting her own Benny. 

It really seems like these writers have zero creativity anymore.  Everything this season is literally just a repeat of other seasons. 

Dean's grief is just season 7

Sam is back to season 1-2 freak issues

Jack is a Cas clone, and an Amara repeat

Mary= purgatory

Crowley= Colonel Sanders

The apocalypse is back on track. season 5, 6, 7.

The post seems to be gone from Tumblr but Clark Backo (Patience ) tweeted a picture of herself talking about a trailer upgrade.

So if she's in this ep, that would mean that episode 3, 7, 9, and 10 are wayward sisters ep, which means almost half of the first season is dedicated to setting up the spin off. 

Do any of the writers actually care about the main show anymore?

[Whimsy]

Let's remember that this is to discuss- with bitterness- spoilers. Do not rehash past events in the show UNLESS you are directly tying it to a spoiler. 

[Res]

On 9/29/2017 at 5:54 AM, ILoveReading said:

https://faegal04.tumblr.com/post/165797931184/is-this-benny-it-looks-like-benny

It looks like Mary is even getting her own Benny. 

It really seems like these writers have zero creativity anymore.  Everything this season is literally just a repeat of other seasons. 

Dean's grief is just season 7

Sam is back to season 1-2 freak issues

Jack is a Cas clone, and an Amara repeat

Mary= purgatory

Crowley= Colonel Sanders

The apocalypse is back on track. season 5, 6, 7.

The post seems to be gone from Tumblr but Clark Backo (Patience ) tweeted a picture of herself talking about a trailer upgrade.

So if she's in this ep, that would mean that episode 3, 7, 9, and 10 are wayward sisters ep, which means almost half of the first season is dedicated to setting up the spin off. 

Do any of the writers actually care about the main show anymore?

Not as far as I can tell from the recent spoilers.

[Mick Lady]

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 1:25 AM, companionenvy said:

No! Take it back! Take it back!

She better! Otherwise, I'm gonna lose it!

Damn catrox! I was trying to feel all positive and all. Now I think you're right.

[trxr4kids]

Quoting my post from spoilers just in case:

Quote

Question: Will Supernatural‘s Sam and/or Dean have a romantic interest in Season 13? —Elle S.
Ausiello: “I don’t think this is that show, honestly,” executive producer Andrew Dabb tells TVLine.

Hey Dabb and I actually agree on something, I'll mark my calendar. ; )

Quote

Sam has been in love multiple times

Jess and the bitchy vet make 2 times which, sure is a multiple but that makes it sound like Sam just goes around falling in love with everyone he has any kind of feels for.

Quote

Dean has had his own relationships…

Okay then, I was under the clearly misguided impression he had been in love previously, not just "in relationships" but okay, my bad.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Diane said:

http://tvline.com/2017/10/03/sandra-oh-greys-anatomy-season-14-cristina-returning/

Question: Will Supernatural‘s Sam and/or Dean have a romantic interest in Season 13? —Elle S.
Ausiello: “I don’t think this is that show, honestly,” executive producer Andrew Dabb tells TVLine. “Neither of them is looking for love, let’s put it that way. Sam has been in love multiple times, and Dean has had his own relationships… There was a time when Sam and Dean, and particularly Sam at one point, thought they could have a normal life and walk away from the fight. I don’t think either of our guys look at it that way anymore. They know they’re going to fight until they can’t fight anymore, either until they win or they die. When you’re committed to that fight, the idea of bringing someone into that and being like, ‘Hey, let’s get married’ [doesn’t compute]. I’m not sure either of our guys is really looking for that at this point in time.”

This, to me, is just one more example of Dabb's - I don't even know what to call it... disregard? disdain? willful ignorance? - of the character of Dean. Sam has been in love 'multiple times' (assuming he means Jessica and Amelia - he barely knew Madison or Sarah, or even Eileen for that matter). But Dean has 'had his own relationships'. 

FFS, Dean was willing to reveal his true self to Cassie, and he lived with Lisa and acted as a father to her son. He was as much in love with Lisa as Sam ever was with Amelia. I honestly don't mean this as Bitch vs Jerk - except in the way that I believe Dabb is both of those things.

 

(reposting this here because I posted in the wrong thread)

[trxr4kids]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I honestly don't mean this as Bitch vs Jerk - except in the way that I believe Dabb is both of those things.

 

Hee!

[catrox14]

My inner Destiel shipper was all ......ummmmmm (re Dabbs remarks on Dean's relationships

 

Quote

LOL, well that couldn't be further from my mind, but have fun with that.

Quote

No I didn't mean towards you! Sorry the quoting was wonky cause mobile. I was meaning in general with Dabb  and suuuuubtexxxxxt LOL

 

Quote

I knew what you meant ;) I'm just not a Destiel shipper and don't see the subtext most do, but that's for another day (and thread), lol.

Ahh fair enough. I just didn't want to think I was directing it at you in particular. Just my musings .I don't know if Dean was ever in love with Lisa .I think he was in love with Cassie though.

Edited October 3, 2017 by catrox14
brought over from bitterness thread

[trxr4kids]

From spoilers @catrox14 said:

Quote

Lucifer and Mary standing shoulder to shoulder against AU Michael is hilariously terrible.

Of course Mary would suddenly decide to stand with Lucifer, she really likes to ally herself with her sons torturers. Is the whole point of apocalypse world to show us how much worse it'd be if Michael had won since that seems to be what happened there. If so, I say I get it show, Michael is so awful and Lucifer is a special woobie who has been treated unfairly by everyone ever <eye roll>