A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[YaddaYadda]

Personally, I haven't voted at all - I really don't care about these villains.

 

I was looking for the option none of the above, then I ended up voting for Cruella.  I would have gone for Rumple, but the first half with the repetitive "when the stars align with the stars in the hat..." and the general evil mustache twirling.  If they elevate his villainy, I'll be down with that.  If they do what they did in the first half, then I'm not down with that.

[Amerilla]

I was in the "None of the Above" category, too.

 

Like Yadda, Evil-Moustache-Twirling Rumpel is not my favorite version of the character. I've never been a Maleficent fan in any iteration of the character, much less KvBS's version of it, which already seems pretty lame. Never saw Little Mermaid, so Ursula is nobody to me, and the crappy CGI tentacles whipping around Merrin's arse are almost seizure-inducing. I like Victoria Smurfit, and she has the Cruella look down, but I have a fairly limited tolerance for camp.

 

Mostly, I just hate that the show is now purely an arm for Disney's marketing department. Season 1-3, they picked characters from fairy tales and literature that were nominally Disney properties, but had histories outside the studio's interpretations. But there was obviously an attempt at marketing "synergy" with the Frozen characters and now with Maleficent, and I just saw this morning casting calls for a live-action "Little Mermaid" and are releasing a 101 Dalmations "Diamond Edition" DVD/BluRay set.

 

So it may be purely coincidental that A&E get all excited about using characters that Disney is, or is about to, pimp for new movies or new product releases, but...if there's one thing the show has taught us, it's there are no coincidences.    

[Writing Wrongs]

Little Mermaid came out on dvd the same time Ariel was introduced. Same thing with Peter Pan and the Neverland arc. It can't be coincidence.

[Mathius]

Expect Aladdin (and Naveen Andrews' Jafar) to be in Season 5A, since Disney's Aladdin gets its Bluray release that Fall.

[Shanna Marie]

Expect Aladdin (and Naveen Andrews' Jafar) to be in Season 5A, since Disney's Aladdin gets its Bluray release that Fall.

I wouldn't mind that. Jafar was a really interesting character, and now that he's a genie, well, an evil genie would be awesome, depending on who ends up getting him out of the bottle and holding his wishes. If they cast someone ethnically appropriate for Aladdin, that would improve the show's diversity somewhat.

[RadioGirl27]

At this point, Naveen Andrews being in the show is the only thing that would make me intetested in season 5.

If they cast someone ethnically appropriate for Aladdin, that would improve the show's diversity somewhat.

This show? I doubt it. They would cast someone Caucasian and they would say it's their twist on the character.

[LizaD]

Getting a second look at Jafar only means giving a chance for these writers to ruin him.

I don't think Disney is using this show as a vehicle for advertising. More likely Adam and Eddy are trying to ride on the coattails of Disney cause they have nothing to offer. Certainly their stellar writing isn't setting the world on fire.

Take Frozen. They somehow took a billion dollar hit and ended their arc with demos that tied their previous series low. Don't think Disney benefitted from that one bit. Once got all the benefits, temporarily anyway. I bet Cinderella is going to make a return soon too.

It's not really a bad move on the writers part. They're just incompetent enough to not be able to take advantage of it. It's not like if they started doing obscure fairy tales this show would get better. Now I think they're solely relying on the beloved Disney aspect to keep the show going.

[Shanna Marie]

I rewatched "Fall" last night, and it's rather sad in retrospect because the buildup to the spell was actually pretty good -- all those tearful goodbyes, all the impending doom. Too bad the effects of the actual spell could have used "Yakkity Sax" as the soundtrack, and there was zero follow-up to Emma and Hook's tearful goodbye in which she seemed to realize that he was saying farewell for good. No worry about his fate, no joyous reunion, no "what's up with you?"

 

Also, the military and various staff in Arendelle must be the most fickle and least loyal people ever. Previously, Elsa was having to sneak around her own castle because apparently all the palace guards were working for Ingrid. In this episode, Hans and his brothers manage to just waltz in and take over the castle, with no one apparently even trying to defend it, people are apparently perfectly willing to rat Anna out to Hans, and he manages to get the navy working for him. I think Elsa has some issues she needs to address with her people.

[Camera One]

Remember, all heroes are incompetent rulers.  

 

I agree about "Fall".  I thought it did a great job of building up to the spell.  The mood was well set.  Too bad the writing went to hell after the spell broke.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I loved how they used the Queen's Curse theme when Ingrid and Rumple were talking in the beginning. Very nice tough there. I agree the setup and feel was heavy and very nice. The Frozen aspect was sort of convoluted and more of just an explanation episode. After all the "find Anna" build-up in the earlier half, with the promos constantly asking almost every episode, "Will she finally find Anna?", the conclusion was a bit late and lacked a certain pay-off feel. It was brushed to the side in favor of the foreboding curse coming, which took away a lot of its weight. It was a fun episode, but it led up to a letdown like Camera One said.

Edited February 28, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

"Shattered Sight" may be the most anticlimactic episode yet -- until we get to the next one. All that build-up of the dreaded spell, and then it's basically a Marx Brothers movie, with the 70s-80s TV episode freezing while everyone is laughing ending (well, they didn't actually freeze, but I was waiting for it because that suddenly bursting into laughter reminded me of that trope). There were no lingering consequences to the spell that made everyone see the worst in the world and in each other.

 

I actually don't have a huge problem with Anna being the one to reach Ingrid. The message in the bottle wasn't an Alien Vampire Bunny, since it was set up in the opening scene of the season, and since Ingrid's whole plan was for Elsa and Emma to love her, I don't think that would have changed her viewpoint. I think it was pretty well built up all along that it would take a non-magical family member loving and accepting her to really reach her and resolve her issues. The problem was how it was all handled. They spent a good portion of the episode on trying to get rid of the ribbons, only for that to do no good at all. It was just spinning their wheels and killing time. I think that's why there was such a problem with Anna suddenly saving the day. The episode seemed to be about Elsa and Emma solving it, going through all the steps to rid themselves of the ribbons, and then they ended up doing nothing toward solving the problem once Anna teleported in with the bottle. Maybe it would have worked better if they'd actually used the love in the ribbons as a benefit, or if Anna had found Emma and Elsa and the three of them went together with the bottle, or something so that all the events of the episode actually flowed toward the solution.

 

The other big waste of time was the stuff with Hook going after Henry. There was the scene where Hook was given his orders, the scene where Hook showed up, the bit where Henry foiled him, the bit where Will attacked Hook, and the scene where Rumple chastised Hook for failing. All that screen time that led to absolutely nothing. It didn't seem to matter to Rumple that he didn't get Henry. Hook's actions don't seem to have had any consequences with Henry or Emma. No one seems to have bothered to tell anyone what he was up to during the spell. It just seemed to be an excuse to give Hook something to do and show that he was under Rumple's control.

 

So since there were no consequences to anything that happened and everything was back to where they started at the beginning, the entire episode ended up being utterly pointless. The only thing that changed was Ingrid's death.

 

I did like Foster Mom Ingrid, up until she shoved Emma in front of the car. I loved how "normal" she was able to act both there and in the times when she was being the ice cream lady.

[Camera One]

The message in the bottle wasn't an Alien Vampire Bunny, since it was set up in the opening scene of the season

 

I agree with your assessment.  Though about the bottle... for me, it's not enough that they threw that out there in the first episode of the season.  It was still incredibly contrived the bottle just *happened* to be at the same sea floor where Captain Blackbeard parked his ship and that *happened* to be where Anna and Kristoff were thrown off, and the bottle *happened* to travel through the portal when Elsa *happened* to wish that Anna and Kristoff would be on Storybrooke beach just when they *happened* to be almost drowning after Arendelle conveniently became unfrozen for no reason and Anna and Kristoff conveniently didn't get the Marion-style icing.  

 

One lucky break, fine.  Three, alright.  That many was too many.

[Dani-Ellie]

Blackbeard specifically dropped them in the spot Anna and Elsa's parents' ship went down. How he knew where that spot was is up for debate, but they had that bit of dialogue where Hans was gloating about how Anna's bones would mingle with her parents' (only for him to express confusion when Blackbeard brings out the trunk because "how can their bones mingle if they're in a trunk?"). So that part at least wasn't a happy coincidence.

[YaddaYadda]

Actually, it's a bottle, so shouldn't it be floating or something?

[Shanna Marie]

I think Ingrid unfroze Arendelle when she realized both Emma and Elsa were in Storybrooke. She didn't need the kingdom frozen anymore at that point. The amount of time it took Anna and Kristoff to reach the Jolly Roger seems to sync up with the time from Elsa's arrival, so it seems like either Ingrid unfroze Arendelle deliberately once she had what she wanted, or else Elsa coming out of the urn triggered it. I'm sure there are physics involved to get into how far the bottle might have traveled, whether it might have been sucked down to the ocean floor when the ship sank, and whether the chest would have floated/sunk similarly, but at least they made the effort to handwave an explanation with the talk of letting Anna's bones mingle with those of her parents.

 

Presumably, if Elsa had wished on the necklace at any time previously -- at least during the time Anna was unfrozen, unless it would have worked on that, too -- it would have brought Anna to her. It was just lucky hero timing that it happened when Anna was in danger and holding hands with Kristoff. Otherwise, Anna might have just poofed away en route to the Jolly Roger, but by having the necklace lost before that point it makes it less of a case of "well, why didn't you do that sooner?"

 

Though that timeframe of getting from Arendelle to the Jolly Roger (and then presumably farther out to sea) makes the Frozen epilogue in the next episode make no sense, since Hans shouldn't have made it back by the time they got back just a couple of days later, and it makes it look like they managed to take back the kingdom in less than an afternoon, in spite of the fact that the entire military had apparently joined up with Hans. Elsa really needs to clean house, but I suppose in this universe a good queen isn't allowed to execute people for treason. (I will admit to having had a mental fanfic in which Hook decided "screw this, you people are insane" after the finale events, found the door again, and headed to Arendelle to take over the navy for Elsa, so she'd have one person she could count on.)

[The Cake is a Pie]

I fanwank that Elsa, Anna, and Kristoff DID arrive back in Arendelle before Hans managed to sail there and were waiting for him. I like to think that Hans lands in port, proudly marches through the gates, thinking the kingdom is his...and is immediately punched in the face by Anna.

Hopefully Elsa also immediately hired some palace guards.

[Mari]

Hopefully Elsa also immediately hired some palace guards.

That get some sort of loyalty test.

[Shanna Marie]

I fanwank that Elsa, Anna, and Kristoff DID arrive back in Arendelle before Hans managed to sail there and were waiting for him.

That's where the placement of the Frozen epilogue is rather silly. It comes before Hook gets his heart back, making it look like the Arendelle gang made it home, won back the kingdom, hit Hans who was two weeks away, and threw together a royal wedding in the amount of time it took Emma to get to the clock tower, be frozen by Rumple, and then restore Hook's heart. I'm not sure why they put it there instead of in the "six weeks later" slot.

[Camera One]

Blackbeard specifically dropped them in the spot Anna and Elsa's parents' ship went down. How he knew where that spot was is up for debate, but they had that bit of dialogue where Hans was gloating about how Anna's bones would mingle with her parents' (only for him to express confusion when Blackbeard brings out the trunk because "how can their bones mingle if they're in a trunk?"). So that part at least wasn't a happy coincidence.

 

To me, that is still a coincidence since it is still awfully convenient for Hans to care where he killed them, knowing nothing about that bottle or the future teleportation event.  And even if the ship went down there, currents could easily have carried the bottle elsewhere.  

 

It was just lucky hero timing that it happened when Anna was in danger and holding hands with Kristoff. Otherwise, Anna might have just poofed away en route to the Jolly Roger

 

Or Anna could already have been dead.  

[Shanna Marie]

I rewatched "Heroes and Villains" last night, and I think "Shattered Sight" still ranks as the most anticlimactic episode ever. There was an entire episode devoted to building up to it, and then it turns out that you could skip "Shattered Sight" entirely without changing the story because the only consequence is that Ingrid died -- and even there, the real consequence from that is the spells that apparently she didn't bother to undo while she was sacrificing herself, and those consequences arise in the subsequent episode without even being mentioned as potential issues in "Shattered Sight."

 

Not that "Heroes and Villains" isn't disappointing in its own way, but there was less build-up since most of the characters thought everything was over and okay at the end of "Shattered Sight." We knew Rumple wasn't going to actually kill Hook and separate himself from the dagger, that something would happen to stop him, so what we were anticipating did happen, in that regard. With "Shattered Sight," both audience and characters were led to believe that this spell would be utterly devastating, but it wasn't, really, and had no lasting effects. The status quo was actually changed somewhat from "Heroes and Villains," with Robin and Marian out of town and Rumple exiled and powerless and Belle no longer seeing him as a misunderstood woobie wonderful person.

 

The problem with "Heroes and Villains" really comes down to the fact that the writing on this show is so very shallow. It's all about the events and not about the people, and that makes it rather dissatisfying because the common thread in an ongoing story is the characters, so what we care about is how things affect the characters, and that's the part they skip. I'd completely forgotten the flashback scene at the end where Rumple goes back and retrieves the gauntlet. That to me makes Belle's reasoning for why she realized Rumple was a problem even worse. Why does it undo what he did for her that he went back and got back the gauntlet? As he told the Queens, it was a ransom. If I got kidnapped and my loved ones ransomed me to free me, I'd think it was awesome if they went back and managed to get the ransom back. I wouldn't want the people who kidnapped me and threatened to kill me to get anything out of the situation. He was still acting to her like he hadn't sacrificed because he cared about her, so it wasn't as though he used this as proof to her of his love while lying about not having actually sacrificed anything. It's on her if she chose to read it that way. There was so much potential material there for her to have figured it out on her own from seeing the truth -- what the mirror told her, Hook's voice mail, Anna, Rumple slipping and doing something a dagger command shouldn't have allowed him to do, Hook's suspicious de-hearted behavior, Rumple's strange lack of concern about Ingrid's schemes, etc. The gauntlet plot device kept her from really being able to look like she'd learned anything and made her look very selfish -- who cares about all the other stuff he's done, but he didn't really make that one sacrifice for her that she thought he'd made, and that's a dealbreaker.

 

And then there's the Emma and Hook stuff. I felt so bad for the actors because there was nothing for them to work with in the heart restoring scene. His line about being a survivor came out of nowhere because she wasn't showing any concern or worry. We never saw her have that "I nearly lost you!" reaction. I wonder if there was more to that scene that ended up on the cutting room floor, if maybe the way it was originally written she had a line or two about worrying about him or expressing some concern before he told her he'd be fine as soon as he got his heart back, and that then led to what we saw with him telling her to be gentle when she restored it. Of course, the cutting room floor would also be cluttered with steps B through X of how Emma and Snow got from Anna knowing Rumple to somehow knowing that Rumple was up to something dastardly right that minute at the clock tower rather than just figuring that it was Rumple being Rumple, and no harm done because it all worked out in spite of him.

 

I actually was less bothered by Emma's reaction to Operation Mongoose this time around. I think in my memory I'd conflated Henry's overly enthusiastic reaction with Emma's, but all she really gave was a mild "I'm in." It could almost be read as "well, at least that might keep her from moping, and that should keep her out of trouble" rather than an actual endorsement of the lunacy. In my mental happy place, I'm imagining that she really believes that if Regina finds the author, she'll be told she makes her own happy ending, and then Regina might actually learn something, and that's why she's on board.

[Camera One]

I was thinking about this show no longer being stand-alone and procedural like Season 1.  But even though the storylines have become serialized, in some ways, there are still some of those procedural elements.  There is still a "problem of the episode", albeit usually more vague, which sometimes becomes a complete moot point by the next episode.  The "team" goes to investigate, usually Emma and/or Charming as the lead investigator, with Hook as backup.  Belle is sort of the information officer/coroner who swoops in to provide some critical info.  There is usually a guest or supporting character providing some additional info.  Then there are Regina and Rumple, the shady people with underworld connections which the investigators need to consult.  Meanwhile, there are Snow and Henry, as the random supportive family members/friends.  The "case of the week" is somewhat resolved, leaving a scene for the dun dun dun surprise twist, that leads to the next episode's problem.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Camera One

[Writing Wrongs]

I did like Foster Mom Ingrid, up until she shoved Emma in front of the car. I loved how "normal" she was able to act both there and in the times when she was being the ice cream lady.

Which begs the questions of how Ingrid managed to live in our world from 1982 with no I.D., Social Security No. or anything and how she managed to be able to run a foster home.

[Camera One]

That's what I was hoping we would see.  What we saw with the fortune teller was not even breaking the surface of the potential culture clash and comic relief that could have arisen from this situation.  I mean, if the plot is going to suck, at least have fun with it.

[KingOfHearts]

I believe someone else said this in the past, but the show has become even more episodic. There are still "case of the weeks", but they've been extended to 11-episode arcs. It's like watching one really long episode, which I can confirm from rewatching 4A. It doesn't diverge from its overhead plot hardly at all. However its so book-ended that it's not exactly very serialized in the grand scheme of things. Very rarely do events within arcs affect what happens in later arcs. You don't need to watch the Wicked Witch or Frozen to understand what's happening now. It all concluded itself.

 

This show has a problem with resolving its storylines too quickly and cleanly. Take the Season 1 finale, for example. We got Emma believing, the curse breaking, a Rumpbelle reunion, Regina's defeat and magic coming to Storybrooke all in one episode. There's also 3x12, where we're already reunited and back in Storybrooke after a tragic farewell in the previous episode. Even Shattered Sight was resolved too quickly and painlessly, in my opinion.

 

In serialized television, there's suspense as to what's going to happen next. Many shows have a question of who's going to die and when. But with Once, the stories are so predictable and handled in such as a haste that it gives little reason to tune in every single week.

[KAOS Agent]

I think too that the writers look at the story through the lens of one character and that's why we get no payoff from others affected by the actions of that character. In a regular story where you start with a blank slate, you can have a story about Matt. We see everything about Matt, both his past as well as his present actions. In the story, Matt does terrible things to his friend, Dan. In order to fully appreciate how bad these things are, we see how it's affecting Dan, but we are not given a whole lot else about Dan because he's not the character we're supposed to focus on. If I come in with no preconceived notions and no feelings about Dan, I'm most likely cool with getting a quick wrap up on how things ended up for Dan, but would be very disappointed if I didn't get a full ending for Matt.

 

In 4A, we had multiple stories like this, but the problem is that the "Dan" character was someone we had a rooting interest in. Rumpel was the main character in the hat/dagger story, but he was messing with Hook. And Hook's problems weren't only affecting him, but his relationship with Emma as well. However, the writers went into it looking only at Rumpel and not considering how the audience required more payoff on Hook's part of the story because we care about Hook. It's the same with Ingrid. She was deeply entwined with Emma and her past. Emma was a mess for most of the arc, but it wasn't her story, so none of her issues were ever paid off. All of the stuff we learned about Emma was done in service of Ingrid's story, so it was never about Emma. We got zero reaction from her on anything. It's bad storytelling because we care about Emma, not Ingrid

Edited March 2, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[KingOfHearts]

I would probably be buying into the Author-type storyline if it was about someone manipulating events rather than manipulating fate. Pretty much a more subtle Rumple that's been pulling strings this whole time. (I'm looking at you, Sorcerer and Blue Shady.) If you look at Lost, for example, there's Jacob and the Man in Black who had controlled everyone's lives since they were young. However, the characters still retained their free will. Yes there was prophecy, pre-destination and the like, but it was all laid out so well that it wasn't quite so contrived. No one used them as an excuse for their bad behavior as I remember, either.

Edited March 3, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I'm looking at you, Sorcerer and Blue Shady.

 

Clearly, Blue has been around in the world for a very long time, so she has met the Sorcerer and has known of the Author.  I had been hoping in 4A that she and the Sorcerer actually set up the whole Hat Box to trip Rumple up.  It would be cool if she disappeared in the second half of the episode because she went to find the Sorcerer herself to warn him to hide from Regina.  It will never happen on this show though since the "good guys" have to act stupid.

 

I got the sense from "Darkness on the Edge of Town" that she did not want to help Regina and did not trust her.  She chose her words carefully.  I'm wondering what her "It's not crazy..." comment about Regina's plan was supposed to mean.  Does this mean she endorsed it and supports her attempt to find the Author to change her happy ending?  Or was she going "It's not crazy... it's completely delusional" in her mind?  Her initial reaction to hearing Regina's plan was a smirk and a scoff.

[turbogirlnyc]

I got the sense from "Darkness on the Edge of Town" that she did not want to help Regina and did not trust her. She chose her words carefully. I'm wondering what her "It's not crazy..." comment about Regina's plan was supposed to mean. Does this mean she endorsed it and supports her attempt to find the Author to change her happy ending? Or was she going "It's not crazy... it's completely delusional" in her mind? Her initial reaction to hearing Regina's plan was a smirk and a scoff.

This was exactly what I thought watching that scene. She was wary of Regina. Blue, unlike the others, hasn't forgotten Regina's unforgivable actions & most likely know the sum total of Regina's evil deeds. I also think Blue knows way more than she's telling but is understandably reluctant to tell Regina anything.

Edited March 4, 2015 by turbogirlnyc

[Shanna Marie]

It also seemed like Blue was seriously wigged out by her experience in the hat.

 

Didn't she assure Snow that help would come during the curse when it was needed? It always sounded like she had somehow arranged for the book to arrive, or at least had a hand in making sure something happened. Blue sounded scared of the Author here, but the book was instrumental to breaking the curse, so why would that be scary? And it makes you wonder how much Rumple knew or planned. He set up the Savior, but even that wouldn't have worked without the book to clue Henry in to get Emma there. Was the book part of Rumple's plans? Does the Author randomly drop in books when people's history is needed?

[Camera One]

It also seemed like Blue was seriously wigged out by her experience in the hat.

 

Didn't she assure Snow that help would come during the curse when it was needed? It always sounded like she had somehow arranged for the book to arrive, or at least had a hand in making sure something happened. Blue sounded scared of the Author here, but the book was instrumental to breaking the curse, so why would that be scary? And it makes you wonder how much Rumple knew or planned. He set up the Savior, but even that wouldn't have worked without the book to clue Henry in to get Emma there. Was the book part of Rumple's plans? Does the Author randomly drop in books when people's history is needed?

 

Yeah, Blue seemed to be in shock at the diner for sure.  We all assumed back in Season 1 that they would eventually reveal the story of what "preparations" Blue was doing to prepare for the Curse, but clearly they are not interested in telling that story.  I had always assumed she had something to do with the book magically appearing.  It would be interesting if Blue had actually gone to the Sorcerer and/or the Author to set that up, so that someone would awaken Emma and help her to believe. Which is a strange situation where both Blue and Rumple would both have wanted the Curse broken, but for different reasons.  It seems like Rumple was an adversary of the Sorcerer and he only just latched onto the idea of the Author, so it doesn't seem like the book was part of Rumple's plans.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

It seems like Rumple was an adversary of the Sorcerer and he only just latched onto the idea of the Author, so it doesn't seem like the book was part of Rumple's plans.

The more you think about it, the sketchier and more convoluted Rumple's plan is. I guess he was putting a lot of faith in the fact that the seer told him he'd be reunited with his son and in whatever he saw with the powers he stole from the seer. It's however many hundred years later, for one thing. Then he's counting on Emma growing up, finding Storybrooke and breaking the curse, in spite of having lived her whole life in a world without magic. And then he's counting on being able to find a way to find his son in that whole world. Didn't Cora bring that finder globe with her? So he didn't even have that. There were some things that took him by surprise, like the memory spell at the town line. But as intricate as his plans were to get the curse cast and have things like the True Love serum in place, he still left a lot to chance.

 

I am starting to wonder if someone (the Sorcerer?) might be playing Rumple the way he played Regina. It's interesting that the Sorcerer's mansion was apparently not included in the first curse but was in the second, which seemed to have a smaller geographic scope. Was it inside the Coradome? Or did the Sorcerer want it to go? Or did he have his own dome that kept him out of the first curse? Did he have some reason he needed or wanted the curse to be cast, and so he was setting Rumple up to find and use it?

[YaddaYadda]

The Sorcerer could have just opened a door before the curse and stepped into another world because he is that powerul. And the contents of his mansion, it seems as though he lived longer in the LwM than he might have anywhere else. I mean in a sense it reminds me of Rumple's castle. It is filled with stuff that comes from other worlds, but the Sorcerer's stuff seems to be specific to our world.

I like how the book appeared to Snow twice, the first time when magic didn't even exist in Storybrook. I was talking about that with my friend and she said something how maybe the book is powered by hope and belief and that's the reason it appeared to Snow. The first time, Henry neededsome hope, so Snow broke out long enough from the curse to give Henry the book. The second time, Emma did not find it because she did not want Henry to remember, she did not want him to believe because she wanted the to leave the town.

And the extra page appeared to Robin because he needed Regina to believe they could happen, his no good ass wanted her to believe.

I thought what she was saying made a lot of sense. Even villains hope and believe in things, that's why Regina got her initial happy ending.

[Shanna Marie]

In the episode thread, a new viewer who's unspoiled for what comes afterward was commenting on the return of Marian at the end of 3B and listed the potential fears/hopes from that plot. That made me realize that this Author plot might actually be the worst of all possible worlds because it's right down the middle.

 

Marian's return didn't spur Regina to go evil again (well, for more than a minute or two). But it also didn't give her any kind of self awareness as she realized that she was going through what she'd done to other people. She didn't gain any empathy for her victims. She still acted entitled to have Robin and like she was robbed because his wife was still alive. So she's not bad enough to be entertaining, and they're pretending that she's good and deserves a happy ending even as she's not behaving the way a truly good person would. She hasn't learned anything, hasn't gained a new insight, and is still selfish, but isn't being portrayed as being selfish. So, basically, this big event didn't change Regina at all, didn't teach her anything, caused no character growth. I guess giving him up counts as growth, but if he needed her to tell him whether or not he should go, that's his problem. Accepting that the best place for him to be was with his family was basic decency. I'd call it not-evil rather than good.

 

And that means that the current plot thread is the most milquetoast out of all the options they could have taken with that big monkey wrench twist from last season's finale.

[KAOS Agent]

The whole Marian discussion and my search for the A&E interviews from that time actually brought me to a better understanding of why the whole Marian returns plot was so much worse than I thought. It's because in every interview they talked about how it was all about Regina. They were explicit in this assertion, so it's not just my biased interpretation. They weren't pretending any interest in Robin or Marian or Roland. They may as well have been cardboard cut outs. This tunnel vision in the writing is why everything went so wrong. If you watch 4A, Regina did her crazy routine and then largely became fairly rational about it all (Operation Blame the Author aside). Robin was the one whose actions were completely messed up. His horrible reactions were required to drive Regina's story and make her look good. However, they forgot that even though they were building Regina into a slightly better person, they were tearing down her romantic interest and turning off many who may have been sympathetic to Outlaw Queen. It's not about how they completely ignored the real meat of the story - that of Regina having murdered Marian and both Robin & Regina coming to terms with that - it's that it fits into the pattern the writers have about focusing on one character to the detriment of everything in the story itself. 

[KingOfHearts]

Of course, it's a kid's show. It always has been been and they have always been up front about that. Abc president Paul Lee stated unequivocally during the TCA press tour in summer 2011 that OUAT was family entertainment.

I wouldn't say S1 was a kids show. It involved rape, affairs, murder, child abuse, custody battles, violent battery, blood gore, sex scandals, legal battle over a murder case, etc. It was an adult show kids could watch. It didn't start becoming more cartoony and kid-friendly until S2. The show started out as something different. There were real world problems kids couldn't understand. I'd say it was family entertainment, but not a "kids show".

I really miss the idea of fairy tale characters dealing with the real world, where they couldn't just poof a solution or get help from a fairy. We saw a little of that in 4x12 with the Queens and Rumple in New York. That was part of what made the original premise so intriguing. In my opinion, bringing magic to Storybrooke was a mistake.

Edited March 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

In case anyone is new to "Once Upon a Time" and needs a summary of what has happened so far.

 

Once upon a time in a land far far away, there lived a girl named Snow White.  Her skin was white as snow, her hair was black as ebony and her costumes were frumpy as hell.  But above all, she was such a brat.  One day, the horse she was riding on went out of control, and she was saved by a lovely young woman named Regina, who trusted Snow with a secret about her true love Daniel the Stable Boy.  But Snow revealed the secret, got Daniel killed and destroyed Regina's life.  When Snow grew up, she met Prince Charming and they got married.  At their wedding, Regina, who had become The Misunderstood Queen, interrupted and threatened to take away their happy endings.  In trying to stop this from happening, Snow White and Prince Charming caused someone to lose their baby.  The Misunderstood Queen began to want to be a better person but Snow White killed The Misunderstood Queen's mother.  Then, Snow White and Prince Charming lied to their own daughter, but not before trying to dispose of the remains of the body of the mother who lost her baby because of them.  The end.  

Edited March 13, 2015 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

You know, really, it wasn't so much that Regina "entrusted" Snow with the secret about Daniel. Snow caught Regina making out with Daniel, which horrified Snow because Regina was engaged to her father. Snow had caught her father's fiancee cheating on him. It only really became a "secret" because Regina tried to do damage control with Snow and talked her into not telling anyone. That always seems to be forgotten when this incident is recalled.

 

Anyway, since the overarching plot line for this season seems to be getting Regina (and now other villains) a happy ending, I'm curious about what that happy ending looks like for these characters. For the ones who are still considered to be villains, I guess that's easy -- they want what they want, and they don't really care what happens to anyone else. Rumple wants to maintain his power, have that power wherever he goes, not be controlled or limited by something like the dagger, and still have Belle. We don't know enough about Cruella, Ursula and Mal to know specifically what they'd want other than maybe those who they believe wronged them crushed under their heels.

 

But what about Regina? If she did manage to find this author, what would she ask for? She used to believe that her happiness required Snow to be dead or suffering. Then she believed she had her happy ending in Storybrooke, where she was mayor of the town, lived in wealth, had total control over everyone, got to enjoy watching everyone be miserable, and had her son. But then Emma ruined that by existing. Now she has all that other than the total control and she has to share her son, but she doesn't believe she has a happy ending because she didn't get to keep her boyfriend.

 

I would hope Regina's not stupid enough to ask a powerful magical being who appears to control fate and who she believes is being unfair to her for a generic "happy ending." That's likely to result in "Sure, I can give you a happy ending." "Oh! I'm so happy!" (drops dead). Or nothing changes, and when she asks why, the Author tells her "You asked for a happy ending. You didn't say anything about the intervening years." Not that I expect this show to do anything like that, but that's the sort of thing that happens in mythology and fairy tales.

 

If she gets more specific, does she ask to go back and go into the tavern to meet Robin? But then there's the risk that Henry would never be born if she chooses love over revenge (she might not know things have changed once they're changed, but would she change it knowing that would happen?). Or Rumple could just get Zelena to cast the curse, and then Regina and Robin would be affected by the curse and separated in Storybrooke (since you know Zelena would target her). Or Rumple wouldn't let her go that easily and would come up with another reason to turn her evil, like killing Robin in a way that would make her blame Snow, so things turn out the same way, only she loses Robin.

 

Or if she doesn't try to change the past, does she ask for Marian to die? Then that would seem to negate her "former" villain status that would earn her a happy ending. Does she ask for Robin to return to her? For Marian to be cured so they can all come back to Storybrooke, Robin can leave Marian and get Roland on alternate weekends? I'm still not sure that wishing for a family to be broken up qualifies you for a happy ending.

 

Is Robin an essential part of her happy ending, or would another guy do?

 

And is she capable of getting a happy ending, or is she going to always want something more?

 

It seems like this is all pretty vague for a season-long plot arc goal, and you'd think that all the other characters enabling Regina on this would want to clarify up front what her definition of happy ending is before making sure she gets one. I could see it going horribly wrong.

[Curio]

It seems like this is all pretty vague for a season-long plot arc goal, and you'd think that all the other characters enabling Regina on this would want to clarify up front what her definition of happy ending is before making sure she gets one. I could see it going horribly wrong.

 

This is one of the main reasons why I despise this author storyline so much. Why would Emma & Co. agree to Operation Mongoose and do 6 weeks worth of looking at a book when they don't even know what the specific end game is? They're basically doing the equivalent of a business saying: "Hey, we need to increase our sales this quarter. All of those other businesses are thriving, but ours is never getting better! How are we going to do it? I don't know, we can just look at our website and see if we find any clues there that can help us out. But let's not put in any effort towards enhancing our current products or improving our relationships with our consumers. Surely, we'll find some elusive investor who will throw a ton of money at us and bring us back from the brink!"

 

Before Emma agreed to do this, she should have asked Regina point blank what is your happy ending? If she had, they could have avoided this whole author search altogether. If Regina said, "My happy ending is with Robin," Emma could have said, "Great, let's use that scroll from Ingrid and see if we can give it to Robin to cross over the town line. Marian seemed understanding enough of your relationship, so maybe you guys can work out an alternating weekend sort of relationship." 

 

Is Robin an essential part of her happy ending, or would another guy do?

I think both Robin and Roland are essential at this point. Regina mentioned the happiest she's ever been was when it was just her, Henry, Robin, and Roland, so I'd assume that's what she's aiming for in this "happy ending" search.

[Shanna Marie]

Regina mentioned the happiest she's ever been was when it was just her, Henry, Robin, and Roland, so I'd assume that's what she's aiming for in this "happy ending" search.

The really crazy thing is, that never happened. Henry got his memories back and recognized her as his mom the day before Marian returned. During the time between his memories coming back and Marian's return, Snow went into labor and they were all at the hospital, then Regina and Robin were off fighting Zelena while Henry was at the hospital. Then Henry was with the Charmings while Regina was having her fireside date with Robin. We saw Regina, Robin and Roland together once. Regina, Robin, Roland, and Henry were never together as a group. I guess maybe she was thinking about that one day when they were all in her life, even though they were never all together -- that for that one day there was the potential they could all be a family, though for the most part on that one day she was like "Henry who?"

 

"Hey, we need to increase our sales this quarter. All of those other businesses are thriving, but ours is never getting better! How are we going to do it? I don't know, we can just look at our website and see if we find any clues there that can help us out. But let's not put in any effort towards enhancing our current products or improving our relationships with our consumers. Surely, we'll find some elusive investor who will throw a ton of money at us and bring us back from the brink!"

I think I used to do PR for that company. Their answer to everything was just "get us more PR."

 

Things that would make Operation Idiocy a lot more interesting than staring at the same book all day:

1) Going to the library to cross-reference things from the book (okay, so that's staring at a different book, but there might be riveting action sequences of taking books off shelves, which is better than sitting)

2) Finding and interviewing people from the book who appear to have happy endings to see how it really happened and what has happened since then (that could even get us some season one types of stories where we learned which Storybrookers were which fairy tale characters)

3) Actually finding clues in the book that lead them to investigate things, like finding symbols that are repeated in Storybrooke signs or that are mysteriously carved on trees

4) Searching the Sorcerer's mansion more thoroughly

5) Teaming up with Team Library to see if they've learned anything about the Sorcerer that might apply to the hunt for the Author (mostly because Hook and Regina trying to do research together would be snarktastic gold)

6) Regina attempting to imitate the actions of people in the book who got happy endings to see if that would change things for her. Oh, but that wouldn't be about making the Author give her a happy ending. It would involve her actually doing something toward her goal.

[Curio]

Things that would make Operation Idiocy a lot more interesting than staring at the same book all day:

1) Going to the library to cross-reference things from the book (okay, so that's staring at a different book, but there might be riveting action sequences of taking books off shelves, which is better than sitting)

2) Finding and interviewing people from the book who appear to have happy endings to see how it really happened and what has happened since then (that could even get us some season one types of stories where we learned which Storybrookers were which fairy tale characters)

3) Actually finding clues in the book that lead them to investigate things, like finding symbols that are repeated in Storybrooke signs or that are mysteriously carved on trees

4) Searching the Sorcerer's mansion more thoroughly

5) Teaming up with Team Library to see if they've learned anything about the Sorcerer that might apply to the hunt for the Author (mostly because Hook and Regina trying to do research together would be snarktastic gold)

 

It boggles my mind that the writers haven't tapped into any of these classic mystery tropes yet. Have none of them seen any caper movie, ever? The main characters are basically on a MacGuffin chase, but for the past 13 episodes, they've been stuck in first gear looking at only one source. Do the writers not realize how boring it must be as an audience member to watch how slowly that plays out on screen? Are they blinded by the fact that they know the answer to all of this, so they forget how to pace everything in between?

 

You wouldn't write an essay with only one source, so why should Regina expect to find an author using only one book? Hell, it looks like Belle and Hook accomplished a ton more research about releasing the fairies in a shorter amount of time than Regina and Henry's author search that has gone on the entire season. Granted, Henry is as dumb as a doornail, so it's basically been only Regina looking at the book and getting distracted by how sad her life turned out...but still. With Emma joining team, you'd think they would have made more progress by now.

 

I mentioned this example in the episode thread, but this season would be way more exciting if the show focused less on the Queens of Darkness and whatever secret it is Charming and Snow are hiding and turning this half season into one long National Treasure style chase for clues leading everyone to the author. But these writers have no idea how to draw a mystery out or drop in subtle hints to lead the audience along. We finally got a clue about the author's door from August's bag, but it wasn't even that exciting of a reveal. I want to see car chases (DEV IL vs. Yellow Bug!) where the Queens of Darkness are chasing after the same clues as the good guys. I want to see hidden symbols hiding in the pages of the storybook that lead everyone to a secret passage under the town that leads them into trouble where they have to work together as a team to get out of it. I want to see Hook and Charming trying to sword fight against some henchman as they try and steal an essential item that can help find the author. I want to see some realm hopping where certain clues are hidden in different worlds. But that's just not how this show rolls.

 

Edit: This just made me realize how crazy it would be if Team Decent People (I refuse to call them "heroes" right now) somehow find the author without doing any realm hopping. Why do they think they can find him/her in Storybrooke of all places? For how mysterious and elusive this person has been for so many years, you'd think that would require our main characters to travel to many different worlds in search of the proper clues and interviewing the correct people.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Curio

[Camera One]

Speaking of slow plot movement, we have 6 episodes left before the finale (assuming it will be a Part 1 and Part 2).  I am guessing the writers' usual plotting goes something like this...

 

Flashback wise: need to tell: Maleficent's story, Ursula's story, Cruella's story, What Snow and Charming did to Maleficent Story, What *really* happened right before the Curse story, and one bonus, maybe showing how August found the Author's Door.  There-in lies why they are burning Three Disney Villains at one go.  Way easier to write.

 

In Storybrooke, nothing needs to happen except incremental steps by the Villains and the Heroes towards the goal of finding the Author.  That means Rumple will need to get six objects in order to destroy the Author and grab all the happy endings for himself.  One object will be connected to Maleficent's past, one will be connected to Ursula's past, one will be connected to Cruella's past, etc.

 

The pattern of their writing in these half-season arcs are clearly telegraphed by now.  Every time the villains "get" something they need, the heroes will find out about it and the audience will learn about it as well as the context from the past.  Look at this week's episode.  Rumple's goal: Bring Maleficent back to life.  The heroes find out and try to stop it but can't do anything.  Audience learns significance of Maleficent in Snow/Charming's past.  Cue the next step in the escalator of predictability.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

I want to see car chases (DEV IL vs. Yellow Bug!) where the Queens of Darkness are chasing after the same clues as the good guys. I want to see hidden symbols hiding in the pages of the storybook that lead everyone to a secret passage under the town that leads them into trouble where they have to work together as a team to get out of it. I want to see Hook and Charming trying to sword fight against some henchman as they try and steal an essential item that can help find the author. I want to see some realm hopping where certain clues are hidden in different worlds.

That would have been awesome! These guys seem almost allergic to action because the potential action and tension all takes place offscreen, especially in the Storybrooke part of the story. We see Belle and Hook have a conversation about freeing the fairies, but them actually finding something and figuring it out takes place offscreen. They tell us about Henry discovering the blank books, but we don't see that happen. We just see them going back to the thing he already discovered. The only action so far in Operation Mongoose is Regina browbeating a small child. The Queens of Darkness are basically just hanging around town. The good guys are just watching them hang around town. There's no sense of urgency.

[Camera One]

The Queens of Darkness are basically just hanging around town. The good guys are just watching them hang around town. There's no sense of urgency.

 

Now they'll probably go hide in the woods.  As per traditional pattern, cue several episodes of Emma and the Sheriff team looking for them.  If we're lucky, they set up some diversionary trap that our good guys will fall for.

[YaddaYadda]

But there's never a sense of urgency with the heroes.  Things go from 0 to 100.

 

Also, a fellow Lostie friend of mine, I showed him the Mr. Cluck scene and he said that Cruella's car is an Excalibur.  He seemed fairly adamant about it and since he knows cars and I don't...I don't know if it's done on purpose by the show or if it just happened.

[Curio]

These guys seem almost allergic to action because the potential action and tension all takes place offscreen, especially in the Storybrooke part of the story.

 

Or when they do write "action" scenes, they're wedged into a pointless plot or they're ruined by fake-looking CGI monsters. I couldn't take the Queens of Darkness battling the Chernabog seriously because of how bad the CGI was and how useless their magical powers were. The audience also just met these characters, so we're not as invested in whether they live or die, so the scene didn't have any tension or suspense. We also knew they would all survive the event anyways because we've seen them alive in the future. If it was Emma, Charming, and Snow in that same situation though, I would have been more invested in that "action" scene because I actually care about those characters.

 

And then there was the stupid "car chase" with the Chernabog on top on the yellow bug. The first time I watched it, it was kind of exciting because Emma got to try and go as fast as she could to get the beast off the car. But upon rewatch, I ended up fast forwarding that entire scene because their decision to do that was just so idiotic. Regina ended up poofing herself to the town line anyways! There was absolutely no need for that entire car chase except as a plot device for Regina and Emma to buddy up and have Regina ask that random question about the color of the car. They could have easily accomplished the exact same thing by Regina poofing both of them to the town line, and then they could have used their combined magic to stun the creature enough and force it over the town line. And then they wouldn't have risked killing themselves by being exposed to the beast for an entire long stretch of road. But Adam & Eddy probably thought the visual of Emma throwing the beast off her car by stopping quickly was cool and went with it without thinking about the logic behind it.

 

We also had another pointless "action scene" in the last episode where Maleficent randomly turned into a dragon to burn the three soldiers at the bridge. I think they wanted the audience to be in awe of the dragon flying around, but it just made me angry that they didn't hop on and ride Maleficent all the way to the tree. Again, logic is trumped by a cool visual. That scene was basically the equivalent of that guy who shows off his sword skills in front of Indiana Jones, but instead of Indy rolling his eyes and shooting him, the sword guy actually wins.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Curio

[myril]

Also, a fellow Lostie friend of mine, I showed him the Mr. Cluck scene and he said that Cruella's car is an Excalibur.  He seemed fairly adamant about it and since he knows cars and I don't...I don't know if it's done on purpose by the show or if it just happened.

 

There was some debate, what kind of car Cruella had in the animated version (where the car was red) and the live action movie (black-white car). In the live action it was a modified Panther De Ville, but thought sometimes to be an Excalibur. So not their idea per se, but maybe they gave it a thought.

 

 

Concerning action scenes. I don't mind much if action is happening off screen or what we get to see on screen is somewhat clunky caricature of action - if the drama and characters and their dynamics and relationships would work. It's TV, better action scenes and CGI is not just a matter of money but as much of logistics and time, I think. TV is not big screen, never will be, never should even try to do the same action buster stuff IMO.  TV series have their own merits - like being able to show week after week character development, relationship dynamics in a different way and rhythm than you can ever do on a big screen in a movie. You can go slower, pay attention to more detail, less overdramatization of single moments, let the characters breath and develop - well, could I should say.

 

As I see it OUaT has become overdramatizing soap opera sucking out the love for subtlety and detail of stories and characters. The characters became colorless, flat mashup cliches of Disney tale and fairy tale archetypes. The plots are repetitive and make the impression of stuff made up on the go by some giggling teenage boys highfiving each other for their crazy brilliance. It's not enough, that prop department and maybe costumes are giving detail some love, the storytellers have to do that in the first place - and that is not the impression I have anymore, It's rushed, superficial, dumb Kill-Sunday-Primetime-bore entertainment. Pity. Fairy tales could be so much more. And the show is not funny and goofy enough to keep me watching it, never find bully bitching talk amusing, that is not snark what they're doing IMO.

 

The first two episodes of 4B have bored the hell out of me. Actually 4A already mostly bored me, definitely since the episode that shouldn't be named, only watched it for the Frozen cast, not the Frozen story even. Never good if I watch a show just for the actors in it, as much as marveling at their work is justified on it's own.

 

When did all these drama queens and bullies took over fantasy TV shows and were declared to be the more interesting protoganists, and even worse, the poor torn souls deserving happy endings? I want my nerdy, underdog, brainy, geeky fantasies back, where the shy and wallflowers and silently suffering folks win the day again, turning secretly into heroes making no big deal of saving the day, struggling with the grey any responsibility and power comes with. The rest of the world can go the frack off and back to their daily or weekly shiny soap crap drama.

Edited March 14, 2015 by katusch

[FabulousTater]

As I see it OUaT has become overdramatizing soap opera sucking out the love for subtlety and detail of stories and characters. The characters became colorless, flat mashup cliches of Disney tale and fairy tale archetypes. The plots are repetitive and make the impression of stuff made up on the go by some giggling teenage boys highfiving each other for their crazy brilliance. [...] It's rushed, superficial, dumb Kill-Sunday-Primetime-bore entertainment. Pity. Fairy tales could be so much more. And the show is not funny and goofy enough to keep me watching it, never find bully bitching talk amusing, that is not snark what they're doing IMO.

[...]

When did all these drama queens and bullies took over fantasy TV shows and were declared to be the more interesting protoganists, and even worse, the poor torn souls deserving happy endings? I want my nerdy, underdog, brainy, geeky fantasies back, where the shy and wallflowers and silently suffering folks win the day again, turning secretly into heroes making no big deal of saving the day, struggling with the grey any responsibility and power comes with. The rest of the world can go the frack off and back to their daily or weekly shiny soap crap drama.

(giving your post a single up-vote just wasn't enough, katusch. it also deserved an animated gif ;-) )

Edited March 14, 2015 by FabulousTater

[orza]

Also, a fellow Lostie friend of mine, I showed him the Mr. Cluck scene and he said that Cruella's car is an Excalibur.  He seemed fairly adamant about it and since he knows cars and I don't...I don't know if it's done on purpose by the show or if it just happened.

No, your friend is mistaken. The Excaliber is a roadster based on the look of 1928 Mercedes-Benz SSK. Cruella's car is unmistakeably a mid-1980s Zimmer Golden Spirit coupe with a few modifications. Totally different cars.

[YaddaYadda]

No, your friend is mistaken. The Excaliber is a roadster based on the look of 1928 Mercedes-Benz SSK. Cruella's car is unmistakeably a mid-1980s Zimmer Golden Spirit coupe with a few modifications. Totally different cars.

Yeah, I'm not telling him that, but thanks for the info ;)

[Shanna Marie]

The plots are repetitive and make the impression of stuff made up on the go by some giggling teenage boys highfiving each other for their crazy brilliance.

That, right there, is the main problem. It's not that they focus on plot at the expense of the characters because the plotting is also bad, lurching from one moment to the next with no sequential development or sense of building, and huge amounts of screen time are devoted to things that end up making no difference, while the big things that do make a difference come out of nowhere. I think the real problem is that they seem to be writing for tumblr -- going for that one big gasp-inducing moment of surprise or the vignette made for gifs. In the last arc, that was how we got the "gasp!" moment of Belle holding the dagger to thwart Rumple while Snow and Emma were frozen rather than having a logical sequence of events showing the various parties figuring out what was going on and building toward that climax and why we got the one hot kiss between Emma and Hook afterward rather than any genuine emotional reaction from either character. That's how we get the "gasp" moment of Rumple seeing Belle kissing Will instead of seeing their relationship develop at all. These are two characters who haven't even interacted since she found him passed out in the library, so that moment is actually rather meaningless to us.

 

I think a while ago someone posted the link to the New Yorker cartoon of the Four Undramatic Plot Structures. That was supposed to be satire, but that's exactly the way this show is written.

Right now, we've got:

1) Ignoring the monster -- The hero is confronted by an antagonistic force and ignores it until it goes away

There are two known villains in town, and the only reason the heroes even bothered keeping an eye on them was because David and Snow were worried about them from whatever happened between them in the past. Regina was more interested in studying the book to find her happy ending and Emma was more interested in eating lunch. The only sense of urgency is from Snow trying to keep her secret from Emma, not from any concern at all about what these people might be up to.

2) Erroneous accusation -- the protagonist is accused of wrongdoing, but it's not a big thing and soon gets sorted out

I suppose it remains to be seen whether Snow's and Hook's past crimes are big things are not, but in the latest episode we had the big, dramatic scene in which Emma more or less accuses Hook of wrongdoing, and then later she decides it's not a big thing. And we've got Mal accusing Snow of something that, knowing this show, will end up actually not being really her fault.

3) The enigma unsolved -- the heroine is faced with a problem, but it's really, really difficult so she gives up

Regina declares she's run into a dead end and despairs of finding her happy ending after doing nothing but reading the same book over and over again.

4) Diminishing Desire -- a man wants something. Later he's not so sure. By suppertime, he's forgotten all about it.

There's Regina not being able to live without Henry for most of an arc -- then kicking him out as soon as she gets him back because she's moping about her boyfriend. There's Hook doing something rather drastic to get his hand back, then getting rid of it by the end of the episode. And Rumple using that whole thing as a setup to blackmail him, then never actually using the blackmail to make him do anything, and either the blackmail was never revealed or ended up not mattering at all.

 

When your actual writing fits the pattern of a joke about bad writing, you might have problems.

 

When did all these drama queens and bullies took over fantasy TV shows and were declared to be the more interesting protoganists, and even worse, the poor torn souls deserving happy endings?

I don't know, but I'm tired of it and the wonky morality it brings with it, where the bad guys can do one good thing and become sainted martyrs, while the heroes can do one minor bad thing and be doomed to hellfire for all eternity because they aren't perfect. There's this bizarre idea that the heroes have to be absolutely perfect or else they're hypocrites who are worse than the bad guys, and meanwhile perfect characters are boring, so this means the heroes are boring and the villains are more interesting. It's as though just trying to be good is actually a bad thing because it means you think you're better than other people, and that means you need to be taken down a peg, and being bad and "owning" it is preferable.