A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[daxx]

Season 3 is by far my most rewatched season. I usually then watch a portion of 4A.

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, oncebluethrone said:

For 3B, I didn't mind that we didn't get to see the entire Missing Year and I don't care about how long Snow's hair is or what Regina is wearing or anything like that. I cared about what was happening in present day, how the events of the missing year led up to the present, what Zelena was up to, and the Captain Swan stuff.

But, to a large extent, the Missing Year is about what's going on in the present day. It was a way of showing how the events of seasons one and two had affected the characters. We're watching a drama to see how the events affect the characters, how they change. That's what an arc is supposedly all about. We spent bits and pieces of season 2 and a lot of 3A showing how Regina isn't the Evil Queen anymore, and that's fine in Storybrooke -- but what about when she goes back to the Enchanted Forest? How is she different than she was before the curse? How has she changed? Has it changed the way she sees herself, which would change the way she dresses. Likewise with Snow, the persona of Mary Margaret was designed to be a punishment for Snow, so how many of these changes would Snow embrace or how many would she ditch, given the chance, and the hair is part of that. There's such a drastic difference between Mary Margaret's hair and Snow's hair, so what does she think of it? Was having her hair chopped off part of the punishment -- in which case, you'd think she'd grow it out once she could make her own choices again -- or was it something she realized she liked -- in which case you'd think she'd chop it off when she got back to the Enchanted Forest.

A big reason I was interested in this show was the juxtaposition of real world and fairy tale. We've seen fairy tale characters living in our world, but what about people who've become accustomed to our world having to go back to the fairy tale world?

[andromeda331]

24 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

But, to a large extent, the Missing Year is about what's going on in the present day. It was a way of showing how the events of seasons one and two had affected the characters. We're watching a drama to see how the events affect the characters, how they change. That's what an arc is supposedly all about. We spent bits and pieces of season 2 and a lot of 3A showing how Regina isn't the Evil Queen anymore, and that's fine in Storybrooke -- but what about when she goes back to the Enchanted Forest? How is she different than she was before the curse? How has she changed? Has it changed the way she sees herself, which would change the way she dresses. Likewise with Snow, the persona of Mary Margaret was designed to be a punishment for Snow, so how many of these changes would Snow embrace or how many would she ditch, given the chance, and the hair is part of that. There's such a drastic difference between Mary Margaret's hair and Snow's hair, so what does she think of it? Was having her hair chopped off part of the punishment -- in which case, you'd think she'd grow it out once she could make her own choices again -- or was it something she realized she liked -- in which case you'd think she'd chop it off when she got back to the Enchanted Forest.

A big reason I was interested in this show was the juxtaposition of real world and fairy tale. We've seen fairy tale characters living in our world, but what about people who've become accustomed to our world having to go back to the fairy tale world?

That's what I wanted to see. What's it like to be back home after being gone for so long? They lived in Storybrooke for 30 years with all the modern conveniences, laws, and different identities.  What if any changes did they want to make? Are they happy to be home? To forgo grocery stores and Netflix for having to grow or capture your own food? Do the peasants want to do away with being ruled by a King or Queen and have their own voices heard and get more control over their lives? Do any of them want to try and invent the modern conveniences? We had that speech from David in Season 2 that they "were both". What's it like to be "both" in the Enchanted Kingdom? So much happened and they were gone so long. What's it like for Snow to be back does with a kingdom to run? Does she still want to do that? The whole point of sending Emma away was so they'd be reunited once the curse broke. But now she is separated from Emma again. How does Charming feel? Snow got the whole first year to live with Emma and get to know her. On the other hand Charming lived with Henry for awhile and then they only had such a small amount of time for their family to be together. Is their hope gone? What's it like for Regina to be back? The curse was suppose to fix everything for her and now she's back and it cost her son. How does Archie feel about being a cricket again? Or any of the other animals who used to be human? Are the fairies happy to no longer be nuns or does it really not matter? What's it like for Neal to be back? He's been gone what two or three hundred years? Everyone he grew up with has been dead for a very long time. And he never wanted to go back. What's it like for Hook to come back? He was a pirate before he came to Storybrooke wanting revenge but now he's different. He's changed. Charming and Snow seemed to have just gotten their kingdom back which is kind of weird Snow never made any mention during Team Princess that she was planning to come back so was no one ruling the place while she and Charming were gone? Was there going to be no government until they came back? Come to think of it who's running the kingdom now? Who's ruling Cinderella's and Aurora's kingdom? Anyone? No one?  

[oncebluethrone]

I would have loved to see all those things, but if a possibility for the show is never mentioned on the show, I'm not going to wish that thing would have happened. But thats just me.

And I think present day Snow keeps her hair short because Ginny hates having long hair.

As far as whose ruling the present day enchanted forest kingdoms goes, I think it's unoccupied.

[Rumsy4]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

The only way they know how to make good characters "flawed" is lying.  

The "good" charatcers have done a lot more that lie. They have done things like kidnapping, darkening an innocent soul, stealing, and caring for the state of their souls over the lives of innocent people. FWIW, A&E have not succeeded in bringing the "heroes" down to the level of the "villains". Rather than making us sympathize with the villains, it has tarnished all their charatcers. Even non-villainous things like being BFFs with the woman who burned your mother alive in front of you has made me think less of Emma. Snow is the same--she spends more time with Regina than with her own daughter. Belle is the poster-child for victims of domestic abuse. But even with the heroes, it's inconsistent. Charming get to kill someone who threatens Regina and be seen as heroic, while Emma and Snow are labelled murderers and killers becasue they killed "villains" and/or someone related to Regina. The only villain to get a reasonably good redemption story (Hook) is being cut down to make him look as bad as Regina and Rumple (Dark Hook was the same thing). It all boils down to the permaboner the writers have for Regina and Rumple. They fell in love with their two original bad guys, and every other character has been sacrificed at their altar. 

Edited March 19, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

It really is a systematic destruction, from Snow being labelled a murderer for destroying evil villain Cora, to Eggbaby retcon, to Emma being equated with Zelena and Rumple for speeding up pregnancies and stealing babies.  

I was thinking about the "little" conflicts within particular episodes in which they make the "heroes" consistent liars, throwing in "ironic" lines like that sanctimonious Snow declaring that her relationship is truthful while David lies, and having Emma hide her secret for multiple episodes, David lying in "Murder Most Foul" and now of course, Hook has his secret... it's just endless.

That reminds me of something Jane once said on Twitter to some comment about Leopold.  She said something like she didn't care about Leopold, the story was about Cora.   A&E don't even need to say it since their own biases are crystal clear from their interviews. 

Edited March 19, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

29 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I was thinking about the "little" conflicts within particular episodes in which they make the "heroes" consistent liars,

I agree. Keeping secrets from loved ones has become a standby in creating moral conflicts and relationship problems for heroes. With Rumbelle though, however many times he lies, it's Belle that's portrayed as too harsh with "poor Rumple" when she finds out and is unhappy about it.

[Camera One]

That's almost funny.  The line of morality shifts depending on which character it is.  A character *not* trusting another character is portrayed as the intolerant sanctimonious person in the situation.  

Speaking of Belle, they had her say in "Tougher Than The Rest" to Rumple: "It can be easy to rationalize doing the wrong thing, can't it?", as if the two of them were equals in their morality.  They constantly surprise us with the new depths to which they drag the traditional heroes.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Journeying along through 4A, and there's many dumb things afoot. Things I hate: the Hook/Rumple business, Regina's quest for the Author, Outlaw Queen angst, Belle's stupidity, Lily, Emma kissing up to Regina, Mary Margaret's dumb mayor tenure, the Ingrid = foster mom twist, Zarian, and all the filler required to keep things Frozen as long as possible. The Frozen stuff itself is okay, but the characters were a bit too... cheery. It was like the animated Disney versions were slotted into a show where everyone else was more serious. Their lighthearted story juxtaposed against Storybrooke was kind of jarring.

We could probably make several seasons from just grabbing random objects from Rumple's Vault.

Edited March 19, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I actually don't think having Mary Margaret become mayor was a bad idea, if they were actually willing or interested to follow it through.  Her attempts to work and be a mother to a newborn was one of the more "normal" everyday type relatable things they had.  It could have explored how the political structure of the Enchanted Forest would translate in Storybrooke now that they were back, and show some animosity towards Regina remaining in government.  Snow could have developed her confidence in ruling and actually learn to become a good ruler.  These are the areas where the character still had room to grow.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

4 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Snow could have developed her confidence in ruling and actually learning to become a good ruler.

Instead, the writers had Regina back in office by the following arc, with Snow tacitly accepting that she is a poor leader when compared with Regina, and that she enjoys teaching instead (why??--she's dreadful).

Edited March 19, 2017 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

6 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I actually don't think having Mary Margaret become mayor was a bad idea, if they were actually willing or interested to follow it through.  Her attempts to work and be a mother to a newborn was one of the more "normal" everyday type relatable things they had.  It could have explored how the political structure of the Enchanted Forest would translate in Storybrooke now that they were back, and show some animosity towards Regina remaining in government.  Snow could have developed her confidence in ruling and actually learning to become a good ruler.  These are the areas where the character still had room to grow.

It wasn't a bad concept, but the most she did was get a generator working and pardon a thief. Then later, she mysteriously resigned and Regina took over. She never did anything in a real leadership role. It was a very weak plot to keep her busy, much like with Apprentice!Henry.

Edited March 19, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Yeah, I think the Writers knew it was filler from the start.  They probably come up with plotlines for Snow at the end to plug in C plots.  Or maybe they came up with it so Regina could firebomb Snow's painting of a bird since that's just so hilarious.

Agreed about ApprenticeHenry, though Adam in an interview said they were "exploring the relationship between Henry and Rumple".  More like they wanted to end an episode with "The Apprentice" sweeping the floor.

[KAOS Agent]

I have to cut the writers some slack in 4A with Snow's plot because Ginny had her baby less than six weeks before filming started. She was legally entitled to 12 weeks maternity leave if she'd wanted. I don't think any of them knew how it would work out for her since it was her first baby. I don't even think she'd had the baby when they started writing the season.  I'd be surprised if they didn't create such a small plot for her so that they could easily fill in if Ginny was unavailable for filming. Having a newborn is hard. Maybe she had some stipulations regarding work hours if they wanted her to work so soon after giving birth. That they chose not to follow through with Snow's filler story of being mayor, her fear of losing Baby Snowflake and her attitude towards Emma regarding magic was the big problem. That should have carried into 4B when Ginny's availability was more certain. Instead we got eggnapping. 

Edited March 19, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

Quote

 That they chose not to follow through with Snow's filler story of being mayor, her fear of losing Baby Snowflake and her attitude towards Emma regarding magic was the big problem.

I agree with that.  4B was more the problem for sure.  The setup for Mayor in 4A was enough... I still quite like that scene where Archie helps Snow with putting the stroller into the trunk of the car.  That was still when the episodes had isolated moments I could enjoy.  I couldn't care less if it didn't lead anywhere long-term.  That was a real moment, a relatable, honest character moment.

I did have a problem with the way they use Ginny's screentime, even if it became limited.  They could have chosen to give her more scenes with Emma and Elsa instead of that pointless subplot with Will.  They also dropped the whole issue with magic.  Yet Ginny's screentime allowed her to give Regina a pep talk to condone adultery?  

I have heard people say Ginny probably wanted fewer scenes in Season 5 and 6 to spend time with the baby.  Even if that were the case, they could have devoted her limited available screentime to moments with Emma, and moments to actually treat Snow as a legitimate character.  Yet they consistently choose not to.  They have constantly used her limited screentime to say lines that anyone could utter, or to act as a prop for another character.  That's just a waste of talent, and that's putting it mildly.  It takes sustained effort to actually destroy talent to the point where the character can't even have good moments anymore.  

Edited March 19, 2017 by Camera One

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

I agree with that.  4B was more the problem for sure.  The setup for Mayor in 4A was enough... I still quite like that scene where Archie helps Snow with putting the stroller into the trunk of the car.  That was still when the episodes had isolated moments I could enjoy.  I couldn't care less if it didn't lead anywhere long-term.  That was a real moment, a relatable, honest character moment.

I did have a problem with the way they use Ginny's screentime, even if it became limited.  They could have chosen to give her more scenes with Emma and Elsa instead of that pointless subplot with Will.  They also dropped the whole issue with magic.  Yet Ginny's screentime allowed her to give Regina a pep talk to condone adultery?  

I have heard people say Ginny probably wanted fewer scenes in Season 5 and 6 to spend time with the baby.  Even if that were the case, they could have devoted her limited available screentime to moments with Emma, and moments to actually treat Snow as a legitimate character.  Yet they consistently choose not to.  They have constantly used her limited screentime to say lines that anyone could utter, or to act as a prop for another character.  That's just a waste of talent, and that's putting it mildly.  It takes sustained effort to actually destroy talent to the point where the character can't even have good moments anymore.  

I love the scene with Archie. Its probably one of the few real honest moments. We know why Snow didn't want to put her baby down. She lost Emma for 28 years and then another year. She almost lost this baby. Of course she's scared to let go of her baby. I do wish we got a scene about having a baby in the modern world vs Enchanted Forest. Was it fun to have all the stuff we have for babies here that they don't have back in the Enchanted Kingdom? Watching Charming and Emma trying to figure out how to put the crib together was a fun, good moment. I wish we had more of these.

I also agree with you about Ginny's screentime. They do consistently choose not to give her scenes with Emma. To have her do much of anything. She's mayor but then that plot goes away. She finds out her mother was murdered. No dealing with that. She and Charming are going to fight for Emma. That never happens. Emma almost died White Out and Snow doesn't even notice her daughter was practically frozen. She decides she wants to be Snow again, but nothing ever comes from that. Does Snow even know Emma was in Wishworld? Or what happened there? No, let's not have Emma talking to her mother about being in Wish world and what it was like growing up with her parents? Let's not have Snow hear about it and wish she could have seen it. To have those memories. Or would it hurt? Or have her think it was insane that according to Wishworld she never taught her daughter how to fight. They never make the most of Snow's screen time. Its always the same cheer Regina up. I can't imagine how frustrating that would be for an actress doing the same thing over and over. To go from being a bandit to having to give pep talks. There is so much they could do with Snow and they never did.

[tennisgurl]

14 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

They have done things like kidnapping, darkening an innocent soul, stealing, and caring for the state of their souls over the lives of innocent people. 

I really don't think the writers really "get" moral ambiguity. It seemed like they wanted to add more shades of grey to the classic Good vs Evil fairytale stories, which isn't a bad idea, but instead of that, it turned into a constant stream of trying to make the good guys look bad pointlessly, and bad guys getting excused for everything.

Typically in a show that has any kind of hero/villain plot that wants to add moral ambiguity, will have heroes that do questionable things (often in the name of justice) or have notable personality flaws (cynicism, pride, addiction), and/or have villains who are doing evil for somewhat understandable reasons (desperation for money or revenge) or some positive qualities, along side their evil (honor, care for family or friends, having some set or standards). You CAN give a villain a sympathetic backstory, and that can give them some sympathy, or explain why they do what they do, but it cant just explain away anything. You can have heroes who do bad things, and villains who do good things, that can make for a compelling story.

HOWEVER, what this show does is try to add in new bad things in the heroes backstories (egg napping! Father stabbing!) or try to frame things that are ambiguous as pure evil (Snow killing Cora, Emma killing Cruella). Those actually were morally ambiguous, but the show decided that they were BAD, so the heroes were BAD to do them. And all the while, they try to excuse everything the bad guys ever did, and act like what they did wasn't really so bad. Its not being morally complex, its just stupid and gross. Its like the writers feel the need to TELL us what's wrong or right, instead of SHOWING us. "Snow killed Cora. That's bad. Charming killed Percival. That's good. Regina killed tons of people. But her mom was mean, so wasn't her fault".  

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Typically in a show that has any kind of hero/villain plot that wants to add moral ambiguity, will have heroes that do questionable things (often in the name of justice) or have notable personality flaws (cynicism, pride, addiction), and/or have villains who are doing evil for somewhat understandable reasons (desperation for money or revenge) or some positive qualities, along side their evil (honor, care for family or friends, having some set or standards). You CAN give a villain a sympathetic backstory, and that can give them some sympathy, or explain why they do what they do, but it cant just explain away anything. You can have heroes who do bad things, and villains who do good things, that can make for a compelling story.

Lost did this exceedingly well in seasons 2-5. The "heroes" (aka the Survivors) made a lot of questionable and dark decisions. We learned the "villains" (the Others) were not all evil, had families, and sometimes had goals in common with the main characters. The more "black and white" themes came back into play in S6, and it sucked. 

They could have easily went the Regina route with Ben, and I'm glad they didn't. I could be engaged with his character without his actions being whitewashed. I never forgot that he was a ruthless, bad person, but he still had some sort of humanity. His redemption in the end wasn't heavyhanded at all. Maybe he had to do with the fact he had self-awareness?

Edited March 19, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

Maybe he had to do with the fact he had self-awareness?

Yeah. The main reason why Regina's redemption fails is because she has zero self-awareness, and she's too whiny and victim-blamey. It's really hard to root for someone like that.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

The amount of filler in 4A was just insane. Ingrid's plan was over complicated for what it was, what with the ribbons and the hat. It seemed like half the episodes were spent on her and Rumple strutting around, talking about cleaving and things getting frosty. Don't forget Anna meeting up with Belle... yeah, that was really important. Episodes 6 through 8.5 really kill the momentum. By the time the arc's climax hit, nobody cared any more. I know I'm in the minority, but I despise a good portion of 4A for just how boring it was.

[Camera One]

One of the signs of a well-written show is the scenes are still enjoyable when you know what's going to happen.  The Ingrid/Rumple stuff was a tease for so long that it really tests one patience to rewatch it, because you know it's all mysterious for the sake of being mysterious to string viewers along.  Especially when you know which episodes in the middle are filler because none of the events were actually irrelevant.  

Season 6 hits a whole new level of boring, to the point where even the first view-through through is a snooze.  

Edited March 21, 2017 by Camera One

[daxx]

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

One of the signs of a well-written show is the scenes are still enjoyable when you know what's going to happen

Exactly, I can rewatch most of the first three seasons countless times, I'm on my third rewatch of A Series of Unfortunate Events and it's still entertaining. Parts of 4-5 are rewatchable but I don't feel that way with this season, the one or two necessity watches since I don't always have both my boys on Sunday and I'm done.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

One of the signs of a well-written show is the scenes are still enjoyable when you know what's going to happen

In season one, there were many fairy tale adaptations that didn't change very much. We knew their endings, but we weren't sure how we were going to get there. In the half-season arcs, we knew the villains would always be defeated, but the journey was what made them entertaining. 

Quote

The Ingrid/Rumple stuff was a tease for so long that it really tests one patience to rewatch it, because you know it's all mysterious for the sake of being mysterious to string viewers along. 

4A was made up of talking head scenes. There were so, so many pointless or redundant conversations. 6x08 was a slog to get through because of its double length. The #SaveAnna story could have wrapped up in four or five episodes, but it ran for nine. Either we needed to sidetrack from Frozen for a while, or it needed to be finished sooner. There was way too much Elsa/Anna/Ingrid going around, which echoed the issue in 3B when Zelena dominated everything.

[Curio]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

The #SaveAnna story could have wrapped up in four or five episodes, but it ran for nine. 

It took them a shorter amount of time to find Hook in the Underworld.

[KingOfHearts]

That dream in 4B Regina had has new meaning now. She dreamed of being reunited with Robin, then being interrupted by the Evil Queen throwing a fireball saying, "Get away from him!" I guess the love triangle's been around longer than we thought, or even the writers might have thought.

[Camera One]

6 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

That dream in 4B Regina had has new meaning now. She dreamed of being reunited with Robin, then being interrupted by the Evil Queen throwing a fireball saying, "Get away from him!" I guess the love triangle's been around longer than we thought, or even the writers might have thought.

I forgot all about that.  This is the one time that I think they could have planned ahead.  They were probably dreaming of the day when they could bring The Evil Queen onto the show.

[KingOfHearts]

Something I hated about 4B was the string of "hero" cameos that aren't necessary. i.e. Aurora, Ariel and Pongo. They were all disconnected from the QoD's motivations, which made the stories less faithful in spirit to their source material. Ursula never met Ariel, Maleficent was really after Aurora's mother, and Cruella only used Pongo to fetch Henry. It highlighted 4B's main issue - disjointedness. It was clunky and dictated purely by the whims of the writers. I really dislike cameos for the sake of cameos and not story.

Edited March 22, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

To me, the story isn't going to be that great anyway, so sometimes, it's the cameo that gives a bit of joy and fun.  If one is not going to get a kick out of fairy tale mash-ups, then this show doesn't have much going for it.  Having said that, some cameos were so basic they provided no joy, only disappointment that so much potential was squandered (eg. Aurora and King Stephen).  I did enjoy seeing Ariel again, though... I thought that was a better use of a cameo.

I just read this on the Once Wiki, from the audio commentary of "Poor Unfortunate Souls":

Quote

Regina's dream about Robin Hood was not originally in the script. It was added later, because the network wanted to make sure that the viewers knew that Robin would come back at some point

Edited March 22, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

On 3/21/2017 at 10:26 AM, KingOfHearts said:

The #SaveAnna story could have wrapped up in four or five episodes, but it ran for nine.

And they didn't actually do anything to find or save Anna. They just stumbled upon the necklace, and then Elsa accidentally made a wish while holding it. If you give your character a driving goal, like finding her lost sister, and you give the other characters speeches about helping her, they need to actually do something. What did any of them actually do, other than David spotting the info on the necklace in the pawn shop in episode 2, and maybe Elsa's trek into the woods that was mostly an excuse for Emma and Regina to spend an episode running around in the woods together? They got so sidetracked by running around in circles stopping Ingrid (without really stopping her), that they forgot about finding Anna.

21 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Something I hated about 4B was the string of "hero" cameos that aren't necessary. i.e. Aurora, Ariel and Pongo. They were all disconnected from the QoD's motivations, which made the stories less faithful in spirit to their source material.

Then again, the Queens of Darkness mostly amounted to glorified cameos that had absolutely nothing to do with the plot, when it came down to it. You could almost eliminate them entirely without changing much of anything about the Author story or Operation Dumbass. Ursula contributed the fact that Rumple wanted to turn Emma dark, and I guess the eggnapping and Maleficent stuff led to the alternate source for dark Savior blood, but really, you could eliminate all of them and still get the same results from the season with only a line or two changed.

That's one of their big problems -- they have this tendency to throw a bunch of stuff into the setup for the season, then never use it at all. With Frozen, they barely used Elsa in the long run, didn't bother showing any kind of search for Anna, threw in a rather convoluted plot involving Ingrid, plus had the hat stuff and Rumple, and then there was the Regina/Robin/Marian triangle and the start of Regina's idea to find the Author, and none of them were really developed well. In 4B, it was the Queens of Darkness (each of them with an individual, entirely unrelated story), plus the random cameos by somewhat related characters, plus the eggnapping, plus turning Emma dark, plus Rumple's impending heart darkness, plus the Author stuff, plus the Regina/Robin/Zelena triangle. And, again, it was all just thrown out there without any of it being developed. The Maleficent/Aurora/Aurora's family/Snowing/Lily stuff alone could have probably sustained an arc. Ursula was a potentially interesting character, though I'm not sure there was enough to her to sustain an arc of her own. She could have fit well into a sea-related storyline, with Poseidon, Ariel, maybe Blackbeard and Nemo.

[KingOfHearts]

4B threw everything into a blender. Like 2B, it had good moments, but the sum of its parts was very weak. I loved Cruella's episode, Zelena's return, and Ursula's apartment. The plot was just too stupid to link everything together. Every episode was about something separate, so the ongoing narrative had to be tight to keep things strung together. It wasn't. 

I know it's an unpopular view, but I do legitimately enjoy some sections of 2B and 4B. They're just balanced out with parts I despise. I actually found 4A and 5A more sloggish to get through. 

[Camera One]

I enjoyed certain sections/subplots and certain moments of every arc... Season 1, 2A, 2B, 3A, 3B, 4A, 4B, 5A and 5B.  6A was the first half-season where I didn't enjoy any of the main storylines and there were few moments that engaged and affected me.  6B is when multiple episodes had ZERO moments that engaged and affected me.  "Ill-Boded Patterns" was the first episode where I disliked every moment.  Hopefully this isn't an ill-boded pattern...

Edited March 23, 2017 by Camera One

[CCTC]

I for the most part enjoyed 4A, largely because they did well with the casting and Elizabeth Mitchell made an interesting opponent for the most part.  They did drag things out a bit too much and over-complicate things, but then completely rushed the ending.  The big curse that had been building lasted about a half an episode and was played for laughs and instead of dealing with the fallout they rushed in the beginning of the next arc.

Season 4B had too much jammed in and was disjointed,  but was also hurt by the bad story line decisions such as unlikable Lily and the character assassination of the Charmings with the egg plot as a way to try and equalize the heroes and villains morally.  Cruella was definitely a high point.

Edited March 23, 2017 by CCTC

[andromeda331]

I liked 3A and 4A better then 3B and 4B I liked seeing them have to work together to find Henry, Pan was a good villain. I like Emma and Elsa becoming friends. Emma hasn't had any friends since season one. The Arendelle stuff felt like more of a story it had beginning, middle and ending. But it soon had the problem they always seem to have they want to wait until the episode or two before the winter finale, or season finale but they don't really do anything or throw up anything that blocks their path to prevent it from taking that long. After awhile it got old watching Rumple alone talking to Belle or Emma, Hook, Charming, Snow, and Regina walking around plants in the dark or Elsa from finding Anna, Zelena or finding the Snow Queen. At first on Neverland they had Pan to deal with but a lot of his plots went no where. Pan made it sounded like he was either going to kill Emma's parents or tap into her old feelings of being abandoned. That never happened. Pan also made it sound like he was gong to tap into Henry's never before mentioned feelings of being abandoned by Emma that could have been interesting but didn't go anywhere. Neither did the caves that was suppose to break the team none of the secrets were really that shocking or mad them mad at each other except Charming's to Snow and that really didn't last too long either. Then there was the weird part of Snow immediately deciding she'd stay with Charming, zero thoughts from either of them about being separated from their daughter again. They could have done a lot more with Neverland like Hook's time there, Bae's time there and give them real hard challenges to face.  Nothing was preventing Elsa from finding Anna, and the Snow Queen didn't really attack until the end. If you have a Big, Bad you need the show and characters to feel and act like there's a big bad. How hard was it to figure out Zelena in Storybrooke was the Wicked Witch? She was the only new person they met. I was expecting a big battle between the Wicked Witch and Evil Queen but that didn't happen.

Then you have stupid parts. Regina wanting to find the author and make him write her a happy ending. The villains also want that too because they don't get happy endings. Except none of the heroes have good lives either. In many cases they have worse lives then the villains because you know the villains murdered and/or destroyed their lives. No one thinks the idea is stupid or that maybe the villains don't deserve happy endings. Cause you know the murdering and things. The storybook suddenly being treated as if it was wrong and lying about Regina instead of writing down exactly what happened. Regina just believed a stupid idea and the heroes believed it too. Until of course the part you knew was coming Regina didn't need an author to do that. That all along the side of Hook who was changing and becoming a better person. Rumple suddenly becoming more evil. A5 had nothing that made sense or even went together Camelot, Dark Emma, and even Dark Hood. Dark Emma never did anything close to what Rumple and Regina did but was treated like she had, nothing came from Rumple with zero powers until he somehow stole it. Camelot people left still sanded. Merlin's vague warnings went no where and neither did him telling them to find Nimue. 5B could have been really interesting going to Save Hook, being in the and Underworld but none of that went anywhere. They rescued Hook pretty quickly, and all we got was Regina and her parents.  Hook died then came back and no one had reaction to that.  Somehow, they managed to make things go no where even more in 6A Hyde? Gone early in the season. The Land of the Lost? Nothing happened there and no idea why they were brought to Storybrook. The Evil Queen? Never had a plan or did anything longer then an episode. Try to mess up Emma helping people that didn't work, Evil Queen claimed she wanted to make Regina evil again nothing came from that either. I keep forgetting Aladdin is even in 6A. At least in some parts in the earlier seasons it felt like they were at least trying to come up with a story. Season five they completely abandoned that.

[Rumsy4]

I need help with a quote. Which episode was it when Emma told Mary Margaret that if she felt something was wrong it was (paraphrasing here)? And what is the quote? Asking for a fic. :-p Thanks.

[KAOS Agent]

It's from The Shepherd: "Here’s the thing – I don’t know a lot about relationships, other than having many that failed. But generally speaking, if you think something you want to do is wrong, it is. So, you got to stay strong and he has to figure out his life. Cheers."

[Camera One]

Why did Rumple help to give Charming fake memories when he wanted the Curse broken?  What was his end-game during Season 1?  

[KingOfHearts]

He probably made a deal with Regina. He wanted to give her victories to keep her off his scent. It made her think she was winning and that he was on her side.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, KAOS Agent said:

It's from The Shepherd: "Here’s the thing – I don’t know a lot about relationships, other than having many that failed. But generally speaking, if you think something you want to do is wrong, it is. So, you got to stay strong and he has to figure out his life. Cheers."

Much obliged. Thank you!!

[Selina K]

I was rewatching Dark Hollow, which was the episode that got me all on board the CS ship, and watching the beginning when the Darlings were speeding towards the town line made me remember how much fun it was to talk in the episode thread (still on TWOP, I think) aboutt, "Oh no, it's the hipster invasion!" This show used to be fun and funny, sometimes purposely and sometimes inadvertently. I haven't felt that in a long time. 

[KingOfHearts]

It's strange, but I was fond of 5B yet I thought every single episode was subpar. There were good moments, especially for the Mills family, but all the arc really offered was an awesome setting to play in. "Sisters" is probably my favorite episode in it, but it wasn't exactly a masterpiece. "Last Rites" got a lot of praise, and I still struggle to guess why. Maybe it was the Hook/Arthur quest.

[Camera One]

Me too.  There were no standouts... I think I liked it for the atmosphere of Underbrooke.  Compared to Season 6, both 5A and 5B were practically innovative masterpieces which went to new places and resulted in some interesting characters.  Just as I typed that, I remembered Merida, so I'll show myself out now. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Camera One

[Mathius]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

It's strange, but I was fond of 5B yet I thought every single episode was subpar. There were good moments, especially for the Mills family, but all the arc really offered was an awesome setting to play in. "Sisters" is probably my favorite episode in it, but it wasn't exactly a masterpiece. "Last Rites" got a lot of praise, and I still struggle to guess why. Maybe it was the Hook/Arthur quest.

I agree, I think it's because 5B, despite the subpar episodes, was still better as an arc on the whole than 3B through 5A.  The focus got messed up in the middle, but the characters were still stronger and more active than they'd been in a long time.  Also, Hades was a legitimately fun Big Bad, IMO.

Quote

I think I liked it for the atmosphere of Underbrooke.  

Me too.  The red filter was a bit much, but I loved the "post-apocalyptic Storybrooke" look and feel Underbrooke.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

Me too.  There were no standouts... I think I liked it for the atmosphere of Underbrooke.  Compared to Season 6, both 5A and 5B were practically innovative masterpieces which went to new places and resulted in some interesting characters.  Just as I typed that, I remembered Merida, so I'll show myself out now. 

Aladdin and Jasmine are this season's Merida. They're just blander and less psychotic.

Edited March 26, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[AudienceofOne]

9 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Aladdin and Jasmine are this season's Merida. They're just blander and less psychotic.

Who?

[KingOfHearts]

Say what you want about Bizarro World, I thought Ginny did a terrific job as Evil Snow. She brought something unique to the role instead of just copying Lana's routine. I thought she was far more intimidating. She really did know how to chew the scenery, which is something we hadn't seen much of from her before.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Holy Bison (cause they are bigger than cows)... I ventured into the All Seasons thread, for reasons still unknown, and it cast me back 2 years.  (I kid you not.) And here is what I found:

On 6/2/2014 at 6:33 PM, KAOS Agent said:

If David's mother, Ruth, had a ring valuable enough that it could help pay for passage on a ship to another realm, why did she choose to keep the ring and instead sell her child?

Geez, @KAOS Agent, first, 1. Thanks for sticking around for the past two years, because others who posted I haven't seen since.  2. congratulations on your gift of clairvoyance.  In light of the most recent fairy-back about David/James/Rumple's Deal, this makes EVEN LESS SENSE.  

On 6/9/2014 at 11:10 AM, Dani-Ellie said:

Everyone has their favorite characters and having one's favorite character continually shoved aside for a screentime hog is annoying.

And THIS^.  I haven't seen @Dani-Ellie post in this forum in while, but especially in light of of the EQ heavy S6, this is VERY relevant.  

It's both frustrating and saddening to think that this was nearly three years ago that these opinions were being expressed, and apparently, the showrunners still didn't learn their lessons.  

[Camera One]

On 6/14/2014 at 4:19 PM, KingOfHearts said:

Rumple and Belle just tied the knot... so I don't really see any dumping coming any time soon.

 

On 6/14/2014 at 5:26 PM, Rumsy4 said:

I know I am being delusional--because this is Belle we are talking about--but I hope she will dump him for at least a half-season. That will show "progress" because Rumple will have refrained from killing a wife that had dared to leave him. :-p

Old posts from 2014 above... Can't believe now in Season 6, Rumple is still making "progress".  

[Free]

14 minutes ago, Camera One said:

 

Old posts from 2014 above... Can't believe now in Season 6, Rumple is still making "progress".  

"Progress".  XD.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

20 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Old posts from 2014 above... Can't believe now in Season 6, Rumple is still making "progress".  

Especially since in S5, Rumple "killed" his ex-wife all over again!

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Especially since in S5, Rumple "killed" his ex-wife all over again!

This show brings "repeating a storyline" to a whole new level.