Past Seasons: Classic Who

[benteen]

Four has that montage where he remembers his old companions and the Brigadier too.  I just watched that episode recently.  It's a very moody serial and the Doctor is very moody throughout.

 

I'd like to thank whomever brought up Hulu because I've finally had a place that has most of the Classic Doctor Who online.  It'll be fun to watch those harder-to-find episodes.  I watched The Visitation on Netflix, which was a good serial and watched Black Orchid on Hulu.  Orchid was a brief two-part serial that was known for being a throwback to the old pure historical Doctor Who's of William Hartnell although it's more appropriate to say that it's a period piece.  It's nothing earth-shattering but a fun trip back to 1920s England.

[Llywela]

Black Orchid gets panned by its own actors in the commentary, but I like it. It offers a rare glimpse of the 5th Doctor and his mismatched bunch of misfits actually having fun, for once in their travels - Tegan and the Doctor get to enjoy a cricket game (by which Nyssa and Adric are mystified), Nyssa meets her double, Tegan dances the Charleston, Adric devours the buffet, the Doctor lounges around in a bathrobe...I mean, sure there's a murder accusation to spoil the day, but overall, what's not to love? :D

[Danny Franks]

 

What did you think the best regeneration was? I'd lean towards the Eccleston-to-Tennant change, because RTD didn't drag that out the way he did with Tennant-to-Smith, which lasted for-freakin'-ever. And I liked how sudden Smith-to-Capaldi was. Somebody compared it to a British Christmas "cracker," where we don't know if we get a treat or a joke.

 

I think Nine to Ten worked really well because it wasn't overblown or over-dramatic. Eccleston just conveyed warmth and regret that this was going to be difficult for Rose to handle, but he seemed ready and accepting. He sacrificed himself for her, and knew this was going to happen.

 

And I suppose there was the added layer that Nine was actually telling the audience, many of whom wouldn't have seen this happen before, and for whom Nine was their first Doctor, 'this is okay, this is what happens but you don't have to be upset when I'm gone'.

 

After that, Peter Davison's is the one I recall most clearly. Ropey special effects and Peri's cleavage and all.

[Mr. Simpatico]

Just went through "Talking About Regeneration" on "The War Games." Anybody else feel sorry for Sylvester McCoy? They showed his Doctor getting shot and falling over six times. It was hilarious, but it was such a shitty way to go. Not nearly as shitty as Sylvester as "Colin Baker" (quotation marks from the documentary, not me), but pretty shitty.

 

What did you think the best regeneration was?

My favorite generation was Three into Four. I think it was a moment filled with true pathos with the Doctor dying serenely close to two people he (particularly in his third incarnation) cared deeply about (the Brig and Sara Jane). A great close for Pertwee's heroic doctor and he and Tom Baker shared enough features that the regeneration didn't seem too shocking. Especially compared with Four into Five with the Doctor surrounded by three brand-new companions and that whole mess with the Watcher (that hasn't been brought up since, really?) and Baker turning into a mummy/snowman before morphing into Davison.

 

I felt sorry for McCoy too. I always thought if his Doctor had to go out it should have been the result of his some plan of his going wrong or something. Not shot down in the street and then operated on to death by doctors. Not his Doctor.

 

The best death goes to Davison and the most dramatic changeover to 6. I just wish they had bothered in the next serial instead of giving us the horrible (worst Who serial ever) "Twin Dilemma" they explained that it was a regeneration gone wrong (which was hinted at and which most fans believed) thank to the aftereffects of spectrox toxin. Such a storyline would also have given Peri, the botany student, something to talk about for once.

 

Worst regeneration is from 6 to 7. It's not just that Colin Baker refused to do film the scene (which I understand given the way he was treated and fired) or McCoy in the blond curly wig but the whole idea that the Sixth Doctor was killed by of all things hitting his head on the Tardis. It was a final insult to the character and to Baker and enough of a laughingstock way to die that Moffat mocked it (via Strax) when describing the various Doctors.

[ketose]

Worst regeneration is from 6 to 7. It's not just that Colin Baker refused to do film the scene (which I understand given the way he was treated and fired) or McCoy in the blond curly wig but the whole idea that the Sixth Doctor was killed by of all things hitting his head on the Tardis. It was a final insult to the character and to Baker and enough of a laughingstock way to die that Moffat mocked it (via Strax) when describing the various Doctors.

Strax's field report was good, especially since he seemed to approve of Three the most.

[benteen]

Just finished watching Earthshock, which was really good.

[Lantern7]

I finally got around to watching "Planet Of The Daleks," which I got for free years ago. It was okay . . . you can see how the Pertwee Dalek stories suffer in comparison to the older material and "Genesis Of The Daleks." On the other hand, I didn't remember that the third episode had to be restored until I watched the documentary on it. So far, my favorite documentary material of the DVD set has to be the call for the missing Daleks on Blue Peter, complete with pleading from a Dalek to find his mates. Also interesting to see how the dogs reacted with them moving around.

[John Potts]

Mr Simpatico My favorite generation was Three into Four. I think it was a moment filled with true pathos with the Doctor dying serenely close to two people he (particularly in his third incarnation) cared deeply about (the Brig and Sara Jane).

 

I always loved the Brig's comment ("Here we go again!"), because it so perfectly encapsulated the Brigadeer's utter unflappability in the face of all the weirdness. Still,it's not going to eclipse Four to Five as my favourite reincarnation (I'm a big fan of Castrovalva), though I quite liked the recent Deep Breath, too.

[benteen]

I finally got around to watching The Five Doctors.  What a ridiculously fun episode that was.  Seeing all those familiar faces and all the Doctors were great in it.  It also reminded me again what a joy it is to see Patrick Troughton as the Doctor.  The guy who took over the First Doctor role (Richard Hurndall) was very effective taking over for William Hartnell.

[Sandman87]

Been following the show on RetroTV, starting with episode one. I hadn't watched any of the episodes with the first two Doctors previously, except for a "movie" that a local station made by editing together all the episodes of "The Daleks" back in the '70s.

 

It's kind of irritating how many entire story-lines Retro has had to skip over because of the missing episodes. At one point they leapfrogged something like 84 episodes in a row, and then later skipped another 26. Now that they're up to my old friend the Third Doctor, the improvements in the production values are really obvious, and there's much less of a Ed Wood quality to everything. Which is nice.

 

There was a really odd choice of soundtrack music in one of tonight's episodes. While Geoffry Palmer (who will always be Jimmy to me) was staggering through London and infecting everyone with a deadly alien disease, they played some "wacky" sounding music with a muted trumpet making wah-wah sounds. Very odd.

[Llywela]

It is a shame about having to skip serials - seasons 3, 4 and 5 were particularly hard hit in terms of missing episodes. Season three has only three complete serials out of 10 originally aired, season four has no complete serials at all out of nine originally aired (although two have been released on DVD with animated episodes - but those animated episodes may not be licensed to be shown on TV) and season five again is more missing than available - since the returns last year it has two complete serials out of seven, one completed by animation and one completed by a reconstructed episode; the animations and recons would be unlikely to be shown on television, so that reduces the number of complete stories that can be aired.

 

But as fans, it's easy enough to experience those missing episodes.

[HauntedBathroom]

It's kind of irritating how many entire story-lines Retro has had to skip over because of the missing episodes....While Geoffry Palmer (who will always be Jimmy to me) was staggering through London...

 

Bit of a cock-up on the archived television front.

[Llywela]

Bit of a cock-up on the archived television front.

Well, no, it was standard industry practice at the time. There are loads of shows from that era that are either mostly or entirely missing, both British and American - Doctor Who got off relatively lightly, in comparison to some. It was just a completely different culture. In the 1960s, television was an entirely ephemeral, throwaway medium, seen as no more permanent than a theatrical production. You produced an episode of a show and it aired and that was it, it was over, because equity contracts meant there was no market for repeats and there was no such thing as home video or DVD players, so there was no market for domestic sales. The tapes used for filming were very expensive, so it simply wasn't feasible to archive every episode, because you'd have rooms stacking up with cumbersome tape that had no value beyond its reuse and yet cost money to store. So the masters were wiped and reused. Standard industry practice, not a cock-up. What survives, in the main, are the copies made for overseas sale, and the odd few serials that were considered worth archiving for posterity.

[ketose]

Well, no, it was standard industry practice at the time. There are loads of shows from that era that are either mostly or entirely missing, both British and American - Doctor Who got off relatively lightly, in comparison to some. It was just a completely different culture. In the 1960s, television was an entirely ephemeral, throwaway medium, seen as no more permanent than a theatrical production. You produced an episode of a show and it aired and that was it, it was over, because equity contracts meant there was no market for repeats and there was no such thing as home video or DVD players, so there was no market for domestic sales. The tapes used for filming were very expensive, so it simply wasn't feasible to archive every episode, because you'd have rooms stacking up with cumbersome tape that had no value beyond its reuse and yet cost money to store. So the masters were wiped and reused. Standard industry practice, not a cock-up. What survives, in the main, are the copies made for overseas sale, and the odd few serials that were considered worth archiving for posterity.

Really early TV couldn't even be recorded. There was a device called a Kinescope that literally was a film camera placed in front of a TV screen. I think Doctor Who came after video tape, however. Still, almost no one had a VCR back then and only a few stations might have recorded old episodes for a backup.

 

Not only was tape expensive, but standard practice was to put that and film media into climate controlled vaults. Every cubic foot had a cost for heating, cooling and dehumidifying all year round.

[Sandman87]

There's an entire article about the missing episodes on Wikipedia.

 

Bit of a cock-up on the archived television front.

I didn't get where I am today by having cock-ups on the archived television front!

[HauntedBathroom]

Great!

 

Super!

[Sandman87]

During tonight's old episode on Retro, the Doctor was in a rocket that was sabotaged before launch, and Mission Control estimated that he'd hit the Sun in 15 minutes with the acceleration that he was experiencing right at that moment. Dusting off my physics textbooks...it turns out that the Doctor was experiencing an acceleration that would squash him so flat that they'd have to invent an entire new branch of math just to describe his flatness. Thousands and thousands of gravities. I guess he's tougher than he looks.

[Lantern7]

Was that "The Ambassadors Of Death"? First up, I hope "Inferno" isn't that big of a drag for you. Secondly, it's Jon freakin' Pertwee. His Doctor would've aikido-chopped gravity into submission. Or maybe the writer(s) was/were more interested in the story than the science behind it.

[HauntedBathroom]

If it was Ambassadors of Death, it was at least partially written by David Whittaker, a man whose understanding of science didn't get better then " Mercury is magic! It's a liquid AND a meta!!"

[SnideAsides]

Pertwee happens to be the one Doctor I've never actually watched. But I'm seriously considering trying to watch the entire series (or as much as possible) from the start. Genuinely curious to see how the show developed over time rather than watching random episodes.

[Llywela]

Pertwee happens to be the one Doctor I've never actually watched. But I'm seriously considering trying to watch the entire series (or as much as possible) from the start. Genuinely curious to see how the show developed over time rather than watching random episodes.

Oh, it's worth doing - a huge commitment, and you have to allow for it to take forever, but so rewarding. I've found that watching the show in order, as originally intended, brings a whole new appreciation of the characters and their stories, as well as new understanding of how television production developed over the years.

 

As for the 3rd Doctor and his gravity-defying exploits, hokey science is just one of those things you have to learn to live with, as a Doctor Who fan!

[Sandman87]

I'm willing to let them slide on the science when it comes to "timey-wimey ball" stuff or any of the hand-waved super science stuff, but something as basic as acceleration and distance? And the notion of "contagious radioactivity" made made me laugh a lot.

 

Yes, it was "The Ambassadors of Death".

[Robert]

One of my (granted, never to happen) wishes for NuWho is to have Peri come walking along one day, see the Doctor, slap him square across the face and walk off again. As much as she could be an annoying character (albeit one that grew on me) and she had such a shoddy and awful ending that just wasn't fair and more importantly the Doctor never bothered to try and find her.

 

Like many people of my age, Baker was my Doctor and his and Davidsons eras where the ones I loved best and I use to think nothing could top it, However having watched a tonne of Classic Who lately, I am pleasantly surprised at how much I am digging the Pertwee Doctor and his era so much (which I hadn't seen much of previously). To the point it is now equal with Baker. I think it is funny that the BBC decided to make the Doctor Earth bound to save money, but in doing so, it made things looked 'less cheap' in the long run! Why?  Mainly with the Beeb able to film episodes that where actually suppose to be set and located in 70s Britain instead of Space Ships, underground lairs, fantastic planets, ancient histories and distant futures, we were not subjected to as many wobbly sets made of balsawood and quarry after quarry after blooming quarry representing all manner of things in the universe (except quarries?). ;)

 

Aesthetics aside, The Pertwee Doctor has some of the greatest companions ever and even more so, it has a depth of supporting characters that the rest of Classic Who never had (though RTD did achieve it somewhat in NuWho). Characters we learnt to care about and root for. People like the Brigadier, Captain Yates and Sergeant Benton wouldn't of been more then a one shot guest role in any other era, but in the Pertwee's time they helped create a fleshed out world for the Doctor to live and play around in. And this isn't going into the actual companions -  Liz was smart and snarky, Jo was spunky and sweet and Sarah Jane was all smart, snarky and spunky (not really sweet however)! Not to mention Delgado's Master, while occasionally chewing the scenery worthy of a Soap Opera, had great dynamics with Pertwee and both played well off each other. Also as an actual recurring villain, even if he did occasionally got foiled in somewhat Scooby Doo fashions, also helped with that fully fleshed out world.

 

The only issue I have ever had with the Pertwee era is the quality of some episodes isn't that great (I recall 'The Claws of Axos' almost unwatchable in parts) though to be fair that is no fault of the team that created it and knowing what we know now about the junking of episodes at the time, I guess we should be thankful all Pertwee era episode exist in some format. I loved Baker and Davidson and all their companions, but there was something just really cohesive and neat about the Pertwee era.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Robert

[ketose]

I'm also a fan of Pertwee. Being Earthbound, Liz Shaw was the only "companion" who never went anywhere in the TARDIS. He also showed a different side of the Doctor. He was able to make a life for himself on Earth, even getting a cool car and other concessions from UNIT. There are Matt Smith episodes that also show that he can join humanity (but not assimilate exactly) when the situation calls for it.

[tv-talk]

Mixed feelings on the Pertwee era for me. On one hand I know it's a great period in the show's history and done very well, no shortage of episodes I enjoy. However overall I realize what really hooked me to Doctor Who was 1)the show so often takes places across time and space, not on present day Earth and 2)Tom Baker's non-hero personality and way of going about things. The extreme quirkiness of the Doctor I think really spoke to us nerds way before being a nerd was cool. Pertwee's Doctor was a bit too James Bond for me personally (tho I like him), but I just loved the full blown sci-fi aspect of 4 and 5 a little better.

 

I havent seen all of 3....any episodes in particular anyone would recommend? 

[Llywela]

Mixed feelings on the Pertwee era for me. On one hand I know it's a great period in the show's history and done very well, no shortage of episodes I enjoy. However overall I realize what really hooked me to Doctor Who was 1)the show so often takes places across time and space, not on present day Earth and 2)Tom Baker's non-hero personality and way of going about things. The extreme quirkiness of the Doctor I think really spoke to us nerds way before being a nerd was cool. Pertwee's Doctor was a bit too James Bond for me personally (tho I like him), but I just loved the full blown sci-fi aspect of 4 and 5 a little better.

 

I havent seen all of 3....any episodes in particular anyone would recommend? 

Hmm. I'm trying to think of some favourites now. The 3rd Doctor is a long way from being my favourite - on the one hand, I appreciate the ongoing story of his exile and the gradual formation of the UNIT family, but on the other hand, I'm not overly keen on Pertwee's very dry delivery - but I do like him a lot anyway. Although...I always have these mixed feelings wherein I really enjoy the style and dynamics and concept of a lot of his stories, but they do tend to be rather long and...well, dry is applicable again. So anyway, some of my favourite serials would be:

Spearhead from Space - it's fun, it introduces this Doctor and the UNIt set-up perfectly, the Brig and Liz sizzle, and it's the shortest adventure of season 7

...actually, I'm quite fond of all season 7, despite the length of the serials - that's The Silurians, Ambassadors of Death and Inferno

Terror of the Autons introduces the Master, Jo Grant and Mike Yates and sets a new tone for a new season

...some other Jo Grant serials I enjoy are Mind of Evil, the Daemons, The Curse of Peladon, the Time Monster, The Three Doctors, Carnival of Monsters and The Green Death (tissues at the ready when Jo leaves)

The Time Warrior introduces Sarah Jane Smith and is possibly my favourite 3rd Doctor adventure of all - it's a cracking good tale, Pertwee is in fine form, Sarah gets a great intro, what's not to love?

...I enjoy most of Sarah's 3rd Doctor season, in fact (except for the Peladon sequel, which is dull) - Invasion of the Dinosaurs gets a bad rap, it's a great story despite the effects and cements Sarah's newly-formed friendship with the Doctor, introduces her to UNIT, it's the second part of Mike Yates' arc (following on from Green Death), and then Mike's story comes to an end in Planet of Spiders, which is the 3rd Doctor's swansong and well worth watching.

 

So, um, there's just a few suggestions! I think there's only one Pertwee I haven't seen yet (The Mutants), so I'm reasonably familar with his era.

[tv-talk]

Thanks!! I havent seen several of those and will definitely check them out.

[Sandman87]

They finished up "Ambassadors of Death" a couple of nights ago. I loved the part where the Brigadier and his superior both refer to his semi-auto pistol as a revolver. Apparently David Whittaker doesn't know anything about firearms either.

 

"Inferno" started last night. They managed to top the previous story's contagious radioactivity with red-hot blue cave-men (or whatever they are). Also, props to the prop department for misspelling "mega-volts" in GREAT BIG LETTERS.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Sandman87

[ketose]

Mixed feelings on the Pertwee era for me. On one hand I know it's a great period in the show's history and done very well, no shortage of episodes I enjoy. However overall I realize what really hooked me to Doctor Who was 1)the show so often takes places across time and space, not on present day Earth and 2)Tom Baker's non-hero personality and way of going about things. The extreme quirkiness of the Doctor I think really spoke to us nerds way before being a nerd was cool. Pertwee's Doctor was a bit too James Bond for me personally (tho I like him), but I just loved the full blown sci-fi aspect of 4 and 5 a little better.

 

I havent seen all of 3....any episodes in particular anyone would recommend? 

One of the great things about the Doctor is that he can be a nerd, a cool character and a natural leader. Ironically, Liz Shaw left because the Doctor knew too much about science.

 

Some good Pertwee episodes are Spearhead in Space (the first), Planet of the Spiders (the last). There's The Time Warrior with Sarah Jane. I also kind of like Inferno because of the mirror universe angle, which was fairly fresh back then.

[Llywela]

 I loved the part where the Brigadier and his superior both refer to his semi-auto pistol as a revolver. Apparently David Whittaker doesn't know anything about firearms either.

More likely, David Whitaker wrote revolver in the script, so that's what the actors said, but the props department simply supplied whatever fake firearm they had to hand. Not many people in the audience would have noticed - we're not as gun-savvy in the UK as the US.

[elle]

One of the great things about the Doctor is that he can be a nerd, a cool character and a natural leader. Ironically, Liz Shaw left because the Doctor knew too much about science.

 

Some good Pertwee episodes are Spearhead in Space (the first), Planet of the Spiders (the last). There's The Time Warrior with Sarah Jane. I also kind of like Inferno because of the mirror universe angle, which was fairly fresh back then.

That seems to be an odd reason to leave, because someone knew too much about science.  Was it that he knew more than her or what is that what he knew was still in our future.

 

btw, what was the line that Pertwee stole from Sarah Jane in the reunion episode?

[Llywela]

That seems to be an odd reason to leave, because someone knew too much about science.  Was it that he knew more than her or what is that what he knew was still in our future.

 

btw, what was the line that Pertwee stole from Sarah Jane in the reunion episode?

Liz left because she was too highly qualified to be the Doctor's assistant, in essence. She'd been hired as UNIT's scientific advisor only for the Doctor to immediately show up and steal the job from under her - and she didn't even want it in the first place. She was pretty much conscripted because the Brig was in desperate need of someone with her qualifications. She'd been quite happy forging her own career in academia, never intended to leave her research studies in the first place, stayed with UNIT for a time because she got all caught up in the adventure and forged a strong partnership with the Doctor, but ultimately felt that he didn't need someone of her qualification at his side, because he could do it all himself. All he really needed was a sidekick to talk at and adventure alongside him, they didn't really need any scientific qualifications, and Liz had a career of her own to think about. So she went back to Cambridge.

 

Plus, the actress was pregnant. And the writers decided the character was too intelligent to be the companion, because writing for a super-intelligent and highly qualified woman was too much like hard work, which doesn't reflect well on them. Liz is great.

 

The line Pertwee stole from Sladen was when Sarah Jane has just run into the 3rd Doctor and is all amazed, because she watched him regenerate so can't understand how he's here again. Their conversation goes:

SARAH: No. No, you changed remember? You became all, er...

DOCTOR: Teeth and curls?

Sarah was supposed to say the teeth and curls line, but Pertwee nicked it - and caused all kinds of headaches for fans wanting to understand how the 3rd Doctor, having been lifted out of his own timeline, could possibly know what his future regeneration would look like! Sarah does kind of gesture at her hair and teeth, but it's a stretch to suppose he could guess the correct description from that...

Edited October 10, 2014 by Llywela

[caci]

I know this is blasphemy, but I was totally done with both Tom Baker's Doctor and Sarah Jane Smith (who is on my own private list of most over-rated companions) by the time they left the show.  When I first started watching the show, Baker was the Doctor and Sarah Jane was the companion.  Because the show was on late and I had a bedtime, I could only watch every once in a while.  I didn't know anything about the show and was very upset when Leela came on the show.  I had no idea about different companions (or regeneration for that matter).  Later, when I could watch the show more consistently in reruns, I was excited to see Sarah again.  Man, did she bug!  People go on about screaming companions, but she could scream with the best of them. Plus, she seemed to get more stupid with each episode.  She was supposed to be this smart journalist but she came off as anything but. Oh, it also didn't help when she came back and started whining that the Doctor left her and that she didn't marry because she always compared someone to the Doctor.  Seriously, I suspect she had a little shrine to him.  Again, I know I am in the minority, but for me Sarah came off as pathetic and kind of creepy in School Reunion.  Sorry about my rant, but she really did bug me.  Anyway, I was very happy when Leela came back on and then Ramona.  The second Ramona left me cold but I loved the first one. 

 

As far as Tom Baker, he had gotten so silly in his last few seasons that it was hard to take him seriously anymore as the character. I kind of look at him like Robin Williams.  When he had a strong director, he was great in his performances.  When he didn't, not so good.  At one point, it seemed the directors just told Tom Baker to do whatever and it showed badly in his performance.  At least JNT seemed to tighten up the production and direction. Baker's last season brought him back to the Doctor I loved, but  I was still glad when Peter Davison took over.  (Although shocked because, at that point, regeneration was a totally new idea to me.)  I can't really say I was sorry to see him go.

[ketose]

I know this is blasphemy, but I was totally done with both Tom Baker's Doctor and Sarah Jane Smith (who is on my own private list of most over-rated companions) by the time they left the show.  When I first started watching the show, Baker was the Doctor and Sarah Jane was the companion.  Because the show was on late and I had a bedtime, I could only watch every once in a while.  I didn't know anything about the show and was very upset when Leela came on the show.  I had no idea about different companions (or regeneration for that matter).  Later, when I could watch the show more consistently in reruns, I was excited to see Sarah again.  Man, did she bug!  People go on about screaming companions, but she could scream with the best of them. Plus, she seemed to get more stupid with each episode.  She was supposed to be this smart journalist but she came off as anything but. Oh, it also didn't help when she came back and started whining that the Doctor left her and that she didn't marry because she always compared someone to the Doctor.  Seriously, I suspect she had a little shrine to him.  Again, I know I am in the minority, but for me Sarah came off as pathetic and kind of creepy in School Reunion.  Sorry about my rant, but she really did bug me.  Anyway, I was very happy when Leela came back on and then Ramona.  The second Ramona left me cold but I loved the first one. 

 

As far as Tom Baker, he had gotten so silly in his last few seasons that it was hard to take him seriously anymore as the character. I kind of look at him like Robin Williams.  When he had a strong director, he was great in his performances.  When he didn't, not so good.  At one point, it seemed the directors just told Tom Baker to do whatever and it showed badly in his performance.  At least JNT seemed to tighten up the production and direction. Baker's last season brought him back to the Doctor I loved, but  I was still glad when Peter Davison took over.  (Although shocked because, at that point, regeneration was a totally new idea to me.)  I can't really say I was sorry to see him go.

Tom Baker has the most episodes of any Doctor and for that reason alone, one has to respect his place in the series. I like Three and Five because they were more adventurous. Baker's Doctor has been compared to Holmes, although he might even be more like Detective Columbo, knowing more than he lets on. I like many of his episodes, especially with Leela, who was a major counterpoint to him.

 

I think you're right about Sarah Jane getting dumber by the season. In the beginning, she had a lot of curiosity about the Doctor, then she just ended up screaming at monsters. Her NuWho episode mostly served this narrative that season that companions are frequently damaged in some way by traveling with the Doctor.

 

I think the Liz Shaw line (quoted by the Brig) was something about the Doctor needing someone to hand him test tubes and tell him how wonderful he is. Jo Grant was supposedly an intelligence agent, but ended up fitting the bill of test tube holder.

[caci]

Ketose, I so agree with you about Sarah fulfilling the inane line that companions are damaged by their time with the Doctor.  In all honesty,  Sarah was not my favorite by any stretch, but I could still watch her episodes (mostly because of the strong stories of the time).  When she returned in "School Reunion" that is when I lost ALL respect for the character and I didn't have much to begin with.  The funny thing in my mind is that if they had written her older character in to an old Tom Baker episode,  I think the Doctor would have wanted to slap her outside the head (figuretivly of course).  The strong Baker Doctor would have berated her for wasting so much of her life sulking and wondering what might have been.  Maybe growing up with the old program, I thought the Doctors were sad when their companions left, but most knew that they had brought wonder into their lives.  That wonder and experience of new things would help them grow into better people in their lives without the Doctor.  Now we get the companions who can't seem to do anything worhwhile without him, Martha being the exception.  Her life took a different turn after her travels, but not in a bad way.  She used her experiences to broaden her horizons. The same could be said of Mickey.  I think the non-angst Doctors would have appreciated that.

[Llywela]

I agree that School Reunion does a big disservice to Sarah's character, using her as a prop to support Rose's story rather than remaining true to her own, but I disagree that she gets dumber during her time on the show. She gets scared, sure, so would I if I had to face some of the things she faces - it infuriates me when people start to say that any character who screams in the face of danger must be useless, because screaming is a natural reflex when in danger. Modern companions scream as well. What matters is what they do next, and Sarah remains a go-getter right till the last. She does change during her time with the Doctor though, and perhaps the trajectory of her story isn't as apparent if it isn't watched in order.

 

When Sarah first meets the Doctor, she is an ambitious, career-focused investigative journalist who isn’t above using subterfuge to gain access to potential stories. She has an enquiring mind - she sees not only the potential story but the mystery and she wants to solve it. She operates very much independently of the Doctor in her early stories, seeing him as an enemy at first, and then continuing to go off investigating on her own even after they’ve become friends and started to bond as a team. Then she starts travelling with the Doctor, but only occasional trips that he has to talk her into, tempting her with tales of the exotic places they could visit together - he wants company on his travels, while she is torn between commitment to her life and career, and an awakening desire for travel and adventure. For a while she has the best of both worlds because the Doctor is still based out of UNIT, so they can go off on the odd jaunt together and she can get on with her career in the meantime (although it might make a stronger story if we knew how her editor felt about that!).

 

But then the Doctor regenerates and his bond with UNIT is broken, which means that their pattern of occasional travels is broken. Harry joins them for an extended trip through time and space in which they are thrown from one adventure to another, and there is a new dynamic with a third member of the team. They are away from Earth for quite a long time, and being away from her life on Earth for so long means Sarah is no longer drawing on her journalistic skills and press pass to help solve cases but has to find new ways in which to operate. She is beginning to drift away from her career focus, enjoying life with the Doctor more and more - although Harry’s old-fashioned ways still give her something to kick against. Once Harry leaves but the Doctor persuades her to come along for one more trip, and then another, and then another - well, that process accelerates. Some may call it devolution, as the ambition and feminism that once defined her begin to fall away, but it makes sense for the development of the character. She is no longer stuck on Earth in the 1970s trying to make a name for herself in a male-dominated industry, she’s out exploring the universe, travelling through time and space, experiencing new cultures. She isn’t working as a journalist any more, she’s travelling full time, so the concerns that once occupied her have fallen to the wayside. She stops caring about dressing professionally because she no longer needs to make that kind of impression and she gives up on trying to be fashionable because the fashion is different everywhere they land anyway. Once she and this new Doctor are travelling alone together full time they become closer and closer, and that relationship changes her. Freed from the responsibilities of daily life and from the demands of her ambition, she loosens up and becomes a lot more light-hearted, allows the playful side of her character free rein, enjoying life and enjoying her travels and adventures, enjoying hanging out with her friend.

 

Coming into Sarah’s final season cold, when the character has already changed so much, I can see that she might not make that much of an impression beyond being fun and having a lovely relationship with the Doctor - the heart of season 13 is the chemistry between Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen. But when you watch her story through in order from the beginning, watch the way her relationship and time spent with the Doctor changes her…well, it’s a different experience. And in a sense it doesn’t matter how much of that development was intentional or not. It tracks. And that’s what matters to me. And, you know, I thought development of a character was what we modern viewers wanted to see - so why decry it?

 

School Reunion retcons her story completely. It's lovely to see her meet the Doctor again - I love his reaction to her, and then her reaction to him. But I simply do not believe that the Sarah I knew for three seasons and the Sarah I saw leaving the Doctor in Hand of Fear - wistful, yes, but content - would have spent the rest of her life pining for him. She might have had some trouble adjusting to life back on Earth. But her time with the Doctor did not damage her, the way the modern show always seems to want to claim for every companion ever. She enjoyed her travels, by and large, she appreciated seeing the universe, she was best friends with the Doctor (not in love with him), and she ultimately walked away from the TARDIS with a smile on her face, happy that she'd had the experience rather than devastated that it was over.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Llywela

[Llywela]

I think the Liz Shaw line (quoted by the Brig) was something about the Doctor needing someone to hand him test tubes and tell him how wonderful he is. Jo Grant was supposedly an intelligence agent, but ended up fitting the bill of test tube holder.

BRIGADIER: You've been agitating for a new assistant ever since Miss Shaw went back to Cambridge.

DOCTOR: Liz was a highly qualified scientist. I want someone with the same qualifications.

BRIGADIER: Nonsense. What you need, Doctor, as Miss Shaw herself so often remarked, is someone to pass you your test tubes and to tell you how brilliant you are. Miss Grant will fulfill that function admirably.

 

Although my inner feminist fumes at the production team who didn't feel comfortable writing for an academic woman and so introduced Jo Grant instead, I also really love Jo as a character and can kind of see what they meant. I love Liz for her intelligence and poise and her cool head in a crisis. She was very collected, a scientist with a logical mind. She always coped admirably when she found herself in danger...but she wasn't the type to get herself into scrapes willy-nilly. I can see where Jo Grant's ditziness, naivety and desire to prove herself could be used to drive sub-plots forward, in a way that simply wouldn't work with the more mature, level-headed Liz. Jo is another character whose trajectory makes sense for me. She isn't an intelligence agent in the strictest sense of the word. She's very young and not overly bright, but her well-connected uncle pulled strings to get her the job at UNIT, and she went through basic field agent training before being put to work as the Doctor's assistant. She made for a strong contrast with the Doctor, she got to use her training on plenty of occasions, she made plenty of mistakes, but through her time with UNIT she proved herself over and over. She got herself into plenty of scrapes, but she also saved the Doctor many times as well. She wasn't bright, but she was very brave and resilient - there were times when she was able to make the hard choices when the Doctor couldn't. She didn't need to be academically brilliant to be exactly what he needed - she has a lot in common with Jamie in that respect. She learned a lot during her time with the Doctor, became confident in who she was, and ultimately left to follow her own path.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Llywela

[caci]

Responding to Llywela's earlier post,  I have no problem with Sarah Jane changing and becoming more relaxed as her time with the Doctor went on.  That was a natural development of the character.  I'm good with it; I never said I wasn't.  Her relationship with the Doctor went more from paternal to friend.  Again, fine.  Believe it or not, I also have problems with people who believe that any screaming at all makes a female character weak.  You are right, facing some of the dangers companions run into,  a scream is a natural response. You're also right when you say it's what a character does after the initial fright.  I agree.   You said I came into her character cold and maybe I would understand her character better if I saw the episodes in order.  In this, I am going to have to disagree.   Her character annoyed me.  She screamed TOO often for me and did not seem as bright as the writers wanted me to believe she was. Yes, I know that is totally subjective on my part.  Going back and watching her Pertwee episodes, I thought the character devolved in these aspects.  She seemed very competent and intelligent at the beginning.  Yes, she screamed, but didn't seem overly do so.  I really didn't mind these early episodes.  Although I appreciated the easy going friendship her and the Baker Doctor developed, she just seemed like a weaker character later on.   I honestly think I would have been more ticked off if I had watched her from the beginning.  I would not like what her character slid into.  Again,  I will totally admit that this is my own personal opinion.  I understand that many love Sarah Jane and my feelings are not going to change that.

 

Your view on how Sarah walked away from the Doctor was wonderful.  I think that is how many of the early companions felt leaving the Doctor, wistful and content.  They got to share in an amazing adventure that would change their lives. You're right that it would be hard to adjust, but the Doctor didn't keep these people around if he didn't think they were strong and able.  I think that strength would translate to the after travels.  Maybe I'm optimistic in this regard, but I would like to think most went on to better lives.   Times are different now, yes, but I truly detest the NuWho's idea of damaged companions. 

[elle]

 

Maybe I'm optimistic in this regard, but I would like to think most went on to better lives.   Times are different now, yes, but I truly detest the NuWho's idea of damaged companions.

Oddly, the companion who received the worse treatment from the Doctor was the one who did go on to lead a better life, and that would be Martha.  I thought that we got to see that change in how she went from the co-dependent caretaker of her entire family (every single one of them called to complain and to get her to fix the problem with her brother's birthday party)  to being able to step out on her own.  She probably would have not joined UNIT if it had not been for her travels with the Doctor.

 

I also like that they did bring back Sarah Jane for a visit.  Even if they did not set her off on her own series, we did get to see that she was still, or back to being, the intrepid investigative reporter.  (The lesson that Rose should have taken away from that encounter was that one does not get to stay with the Doctor forever, but I digress)

[benteen]

I love Sarah Jane.  I loved her original run with Tom Baker (I haven't seen her Pertwee-era adventures yet) and her return in Schoo Reunion.  But I find it hard to believe that the Sarah Jane Smith I saw during the Tom Baker run (finished that recently) would have spent 30 years of her life not moving on from the Doctor.  Now she didn't leave 4 voluntarily and I can definitely see her struggling with that for a while.  But Sarah Jane would have picked herself up and moved on with her life.  She might not have gotten married but I don't consider a person not getting married and having kids a failure.  But becoming a lonely person pining over her time with the Doctor?  I just don't buy that.  In that regard, RTD did her a disservice (especially when he revealed Jo had lived such a fulfilling life after leaving the Doctor) although her guest appearances on nuWho and her own show were wonderful.  But there could have been better ways to have shown what she was doing during this life.  Classic Who Sarah Jane would have moved on.

 

Martha was stuck with a thankless unrequited love storyline and wasn't nearly as interesting as Rose and Donna but she was the only one of the three who proved they could move on from the Doctor.

 

My thought on the role of a companion was to "spend their time" traveling with the Doctor and then move on with their lives, better for the experience.  I think that's why I resent part-time companion Clara so much.  Traveling with the Doctor is an amazing opportunity that she treats like a fun little distraction

 

Anyway, back to Classic Who!  I'm still in the Davison era, watching the Black Guardian trilogy.

Edited October 13, 2014 by benteen

[SnideAsides]

Right. So. It begins. I guess overall I liked An Unearthly Child, but not with much enthusiasm? I kind of feel like the admittedly very good first episode is let down by how the caveman plot is kind of dull, and having the bulk of the story be "the Doctor and Ian learn to trust each other" means Barbara and Susan kind of feel irrelevant right now? And I get that this was filmed in roughly the time period Mad Men is set, but... I've always considered Who to be one of the great progressive TV shows, and this doesn't feel like that.

[benteen]

The last three episodes of An Unearthly Child don't hold up to the first episode, I agree.  The cavenmens ENDLESS discussion of fire doesn't help and what really doesn't help is that the actors playing the two rival cavemen look so much alike it's hard to tell them apart.  The first episode really sets up the premise for Doctor Who well and the last three turn into the kind of historical episodes the show did a lot during the Hartnell years (though I did like the historicals I actually saw).

 

The sad part about part one of An Unearthly Child is Susan is never more interesting again.  She's central to that first episode and a fascinating character who gets reduced to screaming hysterically as her time on the show went on.  She's even poorly utilized again when they brought her back to the 20th anniversary after so many years.  It's disappointing because her introduction is great.

 

I actually accidentally watched the original version of the first episode on the DVD, which features a much darker Doctor.  Hartnell plays him very well in that one too although the changes they made definitely worked out for the better.  Still, you see some signs of this darker Doctor in the third episode where Ian stops him from doing something you would never see the Doctor do now.

 

That being said, I still like the original serial.  But the follow-up, The Daleks, is a classic and much more representative of Doctor Who.

[SnideAsides]

Oh. Well, that's comforting. (I haven't seen any of Susan's other episodes yet - all I used to have for the first two Doctors was the Lost in Time DVD, and I never bothered with the Reign of Terror clips because... you know, why, when there are full episodes available - but I'm looking forward to starting The Daleks tonight.)

[benteen]

Oh. Well, that's comforting. (I haven't seen any of Susan's other episodes yet - all I used to have for the first two Doctors was the Lost in Time DVD, and I never bothered with the Reign of Terror clips because... you know, why, when there are full episodes available - but I'm looking forward to starting The Daleks tonight.)

 

They did release The Reign of Terror DVD about two years ago I think.  Four of the episodes have been found and the missing two were recreated with animation.  They apparently found Reign of Terror years ago in a country that had just had a civil war and the missing episodes (4 and 5) had been destroyed in a bombing.

[Robert]

The country was Cyprus :)

[SnideAsides]

I definitely liked The Daleks more, but it really felt like it was dragging on towards the end. It's not as if it was a ridiculously long story (I'm seriously dreading when I get up to, like, The Daleks' Masterplan), and I did like the idea of the Episode Four "Yay! We're done!" fakeout even if the rest of the story was underwhelming, but it's definitely one of those stories that starts out so brilliantly that the end could never hold a candle to the beginning, despite the irony of the Nazi-analogue Daleks' opponents being a race of physically fit blondes, which is just understated enough for me to find completely hilarious that the show got away with it.

 

Plus that Thal Barbara kissed had a nice ass, so.

[benteen]

The Daleks runs one episode too long.  Get rid of that one episode where they spend so much damn time in that cave and I think you've got a perfect serial.

 

Unfortunately, you're not going to have to worry about The Daleks Master Plan.  Only 3 of the 12 episodes (13 if you count a prequel episode they did to it) are among the missing episodes.  Only episodes 2, 5, and 10 are still around (located on the Lost in Time DVD) and that's something of a miracle considering that the serial was never distributed overseas (having to do with how grim it was).  It still exists in audio form though (as well as all of the missing Doctor Who episodes).

[Llywela]

I actually just finished watching The Daleks' Master Plan for the first time - I seem to have got the hang of recons. It's an excellent story, I really enjoyed it. It pays to think of it as a mini-series rather than a single adventure, I think, because that's really what it is. It can easily be watched in stages, as the overarching plot breaks down into shorter sub-plot sequences. It's a tremendous story - I loved the tense, dramatic atmosphere and the character work, and the way the number of distinct factions in play, all working at cross-purposes, keeps the plot moving. This is a story that really deserves the word 'epic'. The only episode that's a bit of a misfire is the infamous Feast of Steven, the first ever Christmas episode, which sits slap bang in the middle of the story but was deliberately written as a break from the high stakes drama that surrounds it, so is just a bit of frivolous, light-hearted fun, a tonal disconnect from the rest of the adventure. The rest of it, though, is great stuff.

[benteen]

I know it also features the Meddling Monk, a character I'm surprised never returned to Who.

[Llywela]

I know it also features the Meddling Monk, a character I'm surprised never returned to Who.

Yes, he's in I think three episodes in the latter half of the serial: a fun adversary who adds an element of complication to the plot as well as helping move it forward. It's a real shame he never recurred again after that - Peter Butterworth is so charming in the role, and he was the first Time Lord we ever met after the Doctor, an important stage in the growing mythology of the show.