S03.E09: Reckoning Ball

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

Johnny confronts his nemesis face to face when Delle Seyah suddenly arrives to set terms of war via parley.

[MostlyC]

No they did NOT.

[NeenerNeener]

Of the good: awesome version of "Wayfaring Stranger"

Of the terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad:  They killed Alvis!!

Not sure how I feel about the miracle baby that Delle Seyah is carrying.

[johntfs]

I haven't seen more than the first 20 minutes thus far, but I still love Zeph starting to leave when D'avin got into "general" mode.

[Kuther2000]

Nooo. I knew Aneela was going to pretend to be Dutch. I just assumed it was in the Johnny and D'Avin scene. It was very Vampire Diaries' Katherine-esqe.

[johntfs]

Ah well, Alvis has left the building.

I actually know an Alvis in real life.  He's African-American and his name is Alvis Black.  I keep trying to get him to dress as The King for Halloween.  That way we could all go "And now presenting Alvis Black as... Black Alvis!"  He won't go for it, though.

Edited August 26, 2017 by johntfs

[CaptainTightpants]

Well there goes my only ship. So long Alvis, we hardly knew ye. 

If we lose Fancy too I may lose the will to live! 

Consider yourself on notice, show!

Edited August 26, 2017 by CaptainTightpants

[AnimeMania]

Dutch had a scar on her face, did she have the scar when she was talking to Johnny and D'avin in that last scene, my TV was too fuzzy to tell.

[thuganomics85]

So, this is your thing huh, Killjoys?  Kill off one of the secondary characters in the penultimate episode?!  Poor Alvis.  I should have seen it coming since they kept focusing on him making amends or doing whatever he was doing exactly with the knives and whatnot.  But they totally got me and I'm trying figure out when it exactly did Aneela disguise herself as Dutch and how much that has gone one has been her pulling a con.  Or was everything we've seen this episode the real Dutch, and Aneela killing Alvis was her first move?  So many questions!

I'm also getting worried that something is either going to happen to Pree or his boyfriend.  Don't go there, Killjoys!

Fancy releasing Turin was surprising.  I wonder if Turin will find a way to make amends and regain some of his respectability.  Hopefully that won't involve any kind of sacrifice, but with this show, everyone but the big three are fair game.

John/Delle Seyah was intense as expected.  And she's actually carrying a child that was made from both Aneela and D'Avin's DNA?!

Still think John or someone is going to find some way for Dutch to not die if she kills Aneela.  Of course, after these recent turn of events, the gang is definitely going to have to go back to the drawling board here.  They've only got one episode to turn this around!

[MostlyC]

When did D'avin sleep with Delle Seyah?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

30 minutes ago, MostlyC said:

When did D'avin sleep with Delle Seyah?

He didn't.  The Hullen stole some of his DNA when they had him (& Johnny) captive in the Attack the Rack episode.

Gander & his scientists combined that with Aneela's DNA to create the baby growing in DSK.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

Dutch had a scar on her face, did she have the scar when she was talking to Johnny and D'avin in that last scene, my TV was too fuzzy to tell.

The right side of her face - the one she had the cut that was still bleeding on - was blemish free in that last shared scene with the Jaqobis brothers.

But remember, they do have tech that fix injuries while also preventing scarring.  Johnny was using it on Zeph about 3 episodes ago and she stopped him, cause she wanted to keep the scar;  "scars are cool".

[solea]

What just happened? When did Aneela appear on Dutch's ship?  OK, she must've been on DSK's ship and when everyone was busy with DSK she snuck on. But when was the switch made? I'd have to watch again. 

I refuse to believe that Alvis is well and truly dead. He could just be mostly dead. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

IF Aneela was on Lucy at the end, before killing Alvis, then it was a blatant visual cue to the infiltration.  They deliberately showed the right side of her face - that had the 'still bleeding' cut earlier - and it was completely unmarred, when she watched on as the brothers talked, IE D'avin told Johnny about Dutch's plan.

But then that means - somehow - Aneela found out Dutch's plan, because (whoever she was on Lucy at the end) wasn't faking at all with unsure words or whatnot.  Also, how did Aneela [if its indeed her] know how close Dutch & Alvis were?

Still not sure what the ultimate plan is, though.  Unless A plans to kill Pree & both Jaq brothers while pretending to be Dutch.  I could see that as her way of making sure Dutch 'dies alone'.  But, otherwise, I'm not seeing any other grand plan.

[AnimeMania]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Still think John or someone is going to find some way for Dutch to not die if she kills Aneela.

I wonder if Aneela still has to die, since they seem to be implying that the Hullen are actually controlled by "The Lady" and not Aneela.

[Princess Lucky]

What did I just watch?

Until the very last minute, I was hoping the whole thing was somehow part of D'avin's plan. I was hoping they let the Hullen prisoner escape on purpose, and Pip was going to truly mess with her memories by implanting something else, which would have been the real plan. I guess I refused to accept they failed? I was shocked. But I did love seeing that Hullen woman get "spaced," that was ice cold.

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, this is your thing huh, Killjoys?  Kill off one of the secondary characters in the penultimate episode?!  Poor Alvis.  I should have seen it coming since they kept focusing on him making amends or doing whatever he was doing exactly with the knives and whatnot.  But they totally got me and I'm trying figure out when it exactly did Aneela disguise herself as Dutch and how much that has gone one has been her pulling a con.  Or was everything we've seen this episode the real Dutch, and Aneela killing Alvis was her first move?  So many questions!

I still don't know when/where the switch was made (the last scene would be a safe bet, but I'm not willing to make that bet just yet), but I assume Delle Seyah was some sort of a distraction? I really have no idea. That said, I would be perfectly willing to believe Alvis was only injured, but he did get a little too much of the spotlight, and he made amends, so I guess he's probably gone(?). I can't say I'll really miss him, but I did like the actor.

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I wonder if Aneela still has to die, since they seem to be implying that the Hullen are actually controlled by "The Lady" and not Aneela.

Yeah, as soon as they introduced a villain of a higher level, someone who "outranked" Aneela, that's what I've been assuming. It's not like Dutch is going to die (right?), but maybe there's hope for Aneela, too. The fact she's so attached to Delle Seyah bodes well, since it seems like the writers may want us to root for them (as a couple, at least, heh).

D'avin broke my heart in this episode. I related to him, for the first time. The idea that you're expected to "handle" everything emotionally, while having to shield others around you, that's all too familiar for me. I'm not much of a shipper (though I do ship Zeph with everyone in the man trio, somehow, and I am in love with Pree and his boyfriend), but I appreciated that Dutch said she enjoyed working just with D'avin, among other things. We didn't see much of that, so I liked that reference. 

I wish we could have seen D'avin's talk with Johnny, but yet again the show made a fantastic writing choice with Johnny's reaction. D'avin's reaction is to openly try to save Dutch, while inwardly preparing for her death. Johnny's reaction is to openly accept Dutch's death, while inwardly scheming to prevent it. And the way Johnny basically said "I know you too well to argue with you" was a great contrast to D'avin, who kept trying to change her mind. Again, both D'avin and Johnny's individual personalities, as well as their individual (and very different) bonds with Dutch were perfectly showcased.

Fancy and Turin need to make up, but only after Turin does something heroic to help/save Fancy. And, of course, they should both survive. I can lose Alvis, but I can't lose either of them.

I can't wait to see how this all ends. Maybe with the reveal of "The Lady"? Who may or may not be a familiar face? Or with the birth of the Hullen/D'avin baby, who will signal humanity's doom?

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Princess Lucky said:

I was hoping they let the Hullen prisoner escape on purpose, and Pip was going to truly mess with her memories by implanting something else, which would have been the real plan. I guess I refused to accept they failed?

I am not so sure that they failed, I think they managed to slip a few fake memories in there. The escape seemed a little contrived since they knew exactly when the sedative would wear off. 

[tessaray]

Even knowing that Alvis was going to die, the ending took me by surprise. 

I probably need to get a table for one here but I kind of loved both DSK being her twisty self  (2nd best pregnant diva performance of the year) and the fact that the show produced a D'av/mirror Dutch baby. It's all kinds of wrong but this show out fanfics the fanfic writers on a weekly basis.   

By the end of the episode, I was also thinking that I wouldn't object to a D/D ship again.  D'avin gets her in a way that Johnny doesn't.  But I wouldn't put it past the show to have Dutch ending up alone, or maybe with baby Jaqobis if it doesn't die.   

[MissLucas]

15 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, this is your thing huh, Killjoys?  Kill off one of the secondary characters in the penultimate episode?!

As someone who really liked Pawter and Alvis I better stop liking Zeph! Also: way to sink the only ship I was truly pulling for. But yeah, Alvis looked like a dead man walking throughout the episode. Nevertheless great episode. My favorite part was Pree meeting his MIL.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'm still confused as all hells why its so thought to be 1000% sure that killing Aneela means Dutch dies.

Dutch is not Hullen, nor does she have any goo in her.  In fact, she's so much the opposite of Aneela, their DNA strings are the backwards version of each other.  I get all the "killing/poisoning a green source kills all its 'offspring'", but how is that supposed to work when one person is green Hullen and the other flesh-&-blood Human [which is just a grown version of a living memory at that]?

Another thing, if they're so sure of the end result of Aneela's death (at least by Dutch's hand), then why not have D'avin test his control over the green on Dutch?  IF she is as connected to Aneela as everyone thinks she is, couldn't D'avin at least give her a small headache while thinking/concentrating on her eyes/head exploding?  There's no bio tests that Zeph can run to check to see if Dutch is a Hulluman hybrid?

Just seems to be like they're preparing using a ton of supposition, but no actual facts.

[tennisgurl]

No! Alvis! This is not ok show! This is not ok at all! I'm still holding out hope that he might just be hurt, and not actually killed (he does spend a lot of time stabbing himself), but it looked pretty bad. That being said, it was a really great sequence, with that awesome version of *Wayfaring Stranger, and Aneela telling that creepy story about searching for the Devil, bookmarking the start of the episode.

I just want to know when Aneela switched out with Dutch. Did D`Avin sleep with Dutch, or Aneela? Or was that just Aneela at the end? I'm still sure that Johnny or Zeph or someone will figure out a way to save Dutch, or find a loophole.

I'm super worried now about Pree and his boyfriend, who are pretty great together, making comments about lost friends and such things. And Pree just met his mom too! I admit, I squeed at Pree, Alvis, and Fancy in one room together, even if they didn't all interact. I just really love the supporting cast, and while I know that its good for a show like this to show the stakes by killing people, it would just suck to lose anyone, as they all bring something to the table.

Looks like we are going back to D/D I guess, which...alright. I'm a solid J/D shipper, because I think they work better as a couple and the actors have better chemistry, but I do like D/J in general, just not romantically, so I can deal with it if that's where they go. I just feel like, if they did officially get together, its going to be SUPER awkward, even if Johnny has no romantic feelings for Dutch. Even if it wasn't their intention, I think it could fall into yet another of the "D`Avin is better than Johnny" complex that Johnny has always had.

Looks like Turnin is back in the game, and is maybe looking for redemption. I think his days could be limited...

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Looks like we are going back to D/D I guess, which...alright. I'm a solid J/D shipper, because I think they work better as a couple and the actors have better chemistry, but I do like D/J in general, just not romantically, so I can deal with it if that's where they go. I just feel like, if they did officially get together, its going to be SUPER awkward, even if Johnny has no romantic feelings for Dutch. Even if it wasn't their intention, I think it could fall into yet another of the "D`Avin is better than Johnny" complex that Johnny has always had.

(restating from the other thread)

I've reached the point that I ultimately don't want Dutch paired with either Jaqobis brother, just keep it as a tight group of friends, like family, unit - but would prefer it be Johnny if ML & crew have decided that Dutch will be paired with one of them.

I've come to that realization when I stopped and noticed that pretty much a good portion of the major reasons I don't think D/D would work well together, could be used as valid reasons to not pair off D/J.  IE, awkwardness and bruised feelings on the part of the brother not paired with Dutch.

I will say that I still find major fault with the fact that nothing was addressed during their time together while Johnny was away.  If D/D is the endgame, why not prove it by either telling or showing that the alone time between the two was used to further cement their bond?  Dutch just said she liked how they used that 'private' time to kick Hullen ass.  Instead, they're using limited free time and privacy to do this.  Reckoning Night, ok, but doesn't explain the other instances.

Meh.  Thank goodness the sci-fi and other aspects are too good to help one get past the bad handling of some interpersonal stuff.

Edited August 26, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[tessaray]

4 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I'm still confused as all hells why its so thought to be 1000% sure that killing Aneela means Dutch dies.

They do seem to be assuming that just because Aneela used the power of the green goo to bring her into reality that means Aneela's green is Dutch's true source - so she dies if Aneela does.  But Dutch has no trace of Hullen in her DNA, so IMO that's only one possible scenario.  True, it's the worst case scenario and one they should be prepared for but I'm not buying the certain death thing either. 

[MostlyC]

If Aneela is the daughter of Klyne then why didn't she died when he died- they were supposed to be part of the same green "source."  Anyway, I am done with the Aneela character and I'm ready for her to go. now.

The hullen rules seem to change every five minutes. 

[tennisgurl]

Also, I thought it was interesting that they had Pree sing Wayfaring Stranger, a recognizable Earth song in this episode, as its one of the few bits of our culture that has appeared in the show, as far as I remember. Dark Matter, this shows space sibling, has established that it takes place in the distant future, where humans live in space far away from "Earth Prime", but still retain some bits of Earth culture, knowledge, and heritage that are established to be from Earth. Killjoys has always seemed to be more of a A Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far Far Away kind of setting, with no references to Earth or Earth artifacts, so I thought it was an interesting addition. They've never gotten into it either way (and I don't need them to) but I thought it was interesting.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

7 minutes ago, MostlyC said:

If Aneela is the daughter of Klyne then why didn't she died when he died- they were supposed to be part of the same green "source."  Anyway, I am done with the Aneela character and I'm ready for her to go. now.

The hullen rules seem to change every five minutes. 

Uhh, are we 100% sure of that?

I got the impression that Khlyen was already Hullen when that flashback was shown of when Aneela & the other scientists were turned Hullen - ergo, his "source" isn't necessarily the same as Aneela's & that group.  But that's just how I viewed it - he very well could have been turned at the same time.

Edited August 27, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

4 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, I thought it was interesting that they had Pree sing Wayfaring Stranger, a recognizable Earth song in this episode, as its one of the few bits of our culture that has appeared in the show, as far as I remember. Dark Matter, this shows space sibling, has established that it takes place in the distant future, where humans live in space far away from "Earth Prime", but still retain some bits of Earth culture, knowledge, and heritage that are established to be from Earth. Killjoys has always seemed to be more of a A Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far Far Away kind of setting, with no references to Earth or Earth artifacts, so I thought it was an interesting addition. They've never gotten into it either way (and I don't need them to) but I thought it was interesting.

This is the feeling I've always gotten from the show as well.

Earth may be 'reachable', but its not part of the civilization & awareness of the Quad/"J" or its near neighbors.

[marinw]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

As someone who really liked Pawter and Alvis I better stop liking Zeph!

I'm worried about Pree, now that he has found love. And Thom Allison can sing!

[CaptainTightpants]

I've decided to hold out hope for Alvis. On the belief that like all good dogs, sexy monks should never die. 

I'm glad I had a rewatch because it makes the awkward acting scene when Dutch and D'Avin are trying to record the fake memory that much sweeter. I always find it hilarious when actors are called on to do "bad acting" in a show. And they pulled it off wonderfully!

I devoutly hope that is the last we see of Kitaan. Of all the hullen she grated on me the most. Why are all these supposedly emotionless super beings so smug? We actually haven't seen "emotionless" per se with very many of them at all. 

[Loandbehold]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I just want to know when Aneela switched out with Dutch. Did D`Avin sleep with Dutch, or Aneela? Or was that just Aneela at the end? I'm still sure that Johnny or Zeph or someone will figure out a way to save Dutch, or find a loophole.

On rewatch, I was specifically looking for the mark on the right side of Dutch's face. It was there as she and D'avin were getting closer, but, when "Dutch" observed D'av telling Johnny about the plan, no mark. Maybe Dutch went for a stroll after sexing it up w/ D'av and that is when Aneela captured her and made the switch.  

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Even though I've given up on expecting things and just doing my best to accept what happens.......

Pardon my 'this is not my ship' moment, but when D'avin ended his little list of reasons why Dutch was a bad Killjoy with "and you sleep with all the wrong guys", my immediate mental rejoinder was "yeah, but at least the only thing she has to worry about with those guys is picking up a bad case of space STDs, whereas you straight up tried to kill her".  That, and the fact that he's on the list of guys she's slept with, so pause a moment and take that for what you will, D'av.

[johntfs]

6 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Even though I've given up on expecting things and just doing my best to accept what happens.......

Pardon my 'this is not my ship' moment, but when D'avin ended his little list of reasons why Dutch was a bad Killjoy with "and you sleep with all the wrong guys", my immediate mental rejoinder was "yeah, but at least the only thing she has to worry about with those guys is picking up a bad case of space STDs, whereas you straight up tried to kill her".  That, and the fact that he's on the list of guys she's slept with, so pause a moment and take that for what you will, D'av.

To be fair, D'avin didn't try to kill Dutch.  D'avin's body tried to kill her while it was under the control and programming of somebody else.  For my part while I'm not super-invested in a Dutch/D'avin romance, I do feel good for the character of Dutch that she's managed to rebuild her trust of D'avin enough to be intimate with him again.

Blaming D'avin for attacking Dutch is a bit like accusing a rape victim of infidelity - something that actually happens in some of the nastier parts of our own world.

Edited August 27, 2017 by johntfs

[tessaray]

19 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Even though I've given up on expecting things and just doing my best to accept what happens.......

Pardon my 'this is not my ship' moment, but when D'avin ended his little list of reasons why Dutch was a bad Killjoy with "and you sleep with all the wrong guys", my immediate mental rejoinder was "yeah, but at least the only thing she has to worry about with those guys is picking up a bad case of space STDs, whereas you straight up tried to kill her".  That, and the fact that he's on the list of guys she's slept with, so pause a moment and take that for what you will, D'av.

I think D'avin is self-aware enough to know he's on the list of wrong guys.  But if all she wanted out of those guys was a bit of fun, that doesn't necessarily make them wrong (even if they weren't good guys).   

D'av can be judgmental and while he cares about her, it's one reason I couldn't ever see them together long term. Yes, he gets her in ways John doesn't but I can see the boy scout/military good guy aspect of his character getting on her nerves eventually.   

[KaleyFirefly]

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, I thought it was interesting that they had Pree sing Wayfaring Stranger, a recognizable Earth song in this episode, as its one of the few bits of our culture that has appeared in the show, as far as I remember. Dark Matter, this shows space sibling, has established that it takes place in the distant future, where humans live in space far away from "Earth Prime", but still retain some bits of Earth culture, knowledge, and heritage that are established to be from Earth. Killjoys has always seemed to be more of a A Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far Far Away kind of setting, with no references to Earth or Earth artifacts, so I thought it was an interesting addition. They've never gotten into it either way (and I don't need them to) but I thought it was interesting.

I agree, but I did love Pree's version, the man has a beautiful voice.

[MissLucas]

I think the show has once or twice made nebulous references to Earth - like Johnny's comments about the tradition of parley in this episode:

Quote

It's some serious ancient-world shit.

This is of course so vague it could mean anything (or rather any home planet). But if Earth is the ancient world referred to here than Killjoys must be further ahead in the future than Dark Matter where Earth a) still exists and b) its history and culture are more often referred to.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I think the show has once or twice made nebulous references to Earth - like Johnny's comments about the tradition of parley in this episode:

This is of course so vague it could mean anything (or rather any home planet). But if Earth is the ancient world referred to here than Killjoys must be further ahead in the future than Dark Matter where Earth a) still exists and b) its history and culture are more often referred to.

It's possible.  On the other hand, I remember Battlestar Galactica having peanut butter, pizza and toothpaste and it turned out to be taking place 150,000 years or so before our Earth civilization.

[NorthstarATL]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

On the other hand, I remember Battlestar Galactica having peanut butter, pizza and toothpaste and it turned out to be taking place 150,000 years or so before our Earth civilization.

It is known that ancient aliens gifted us with peanut butter, pizza and toothpaste.

[KaleyFirefly]

6 minutes ago, NorthstarATL said:

It is known that ancient aliens gifted us with peanut butter, pizza and toothpaste.

Thank god for that!

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

It is known that ancient aliens gifted us with peanut butter, pizza and toothpaste.

So says Giorgio Tsoukalos, so say we all.

[Princess Lucky]

On 27/8/2017 at 4:24 AM, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Even though I've given up on expecting things and just doing my best to accept what happens.......

Pardon my 'this is not my ship' moment, but when D'avin ended his little list of reasons why Dutch was a bad Killjoy with "and you sleep with all the wrong guys", my immediate mental rejoinder was "yeah, but at least the only thing she has to worry about with those guys is picking up a bad case of space STDs, whereas you straight up tried to kill her".  That, and the fact that he's on the list of guys she's slept with, so pause a moment and take that for what you will, D'av.

That's such a Turin attitude, heh. I don't blame D'avin for that any more than I blame Fancy for anything he did before he was cleansed. In fact, I think that's the beauty of it, that's why D'avin is able to understand, and that's what gave us that lovely moment between those two. They've both come so far.

Speaking of things D'avin shouldn't feel guilty about, this time his DNA gets used to create some sort of Hullen baby? Without his consent? D'avin is quite literally being used, and not for the first time. Physically used. And he keeps apologizing for it, as if he were actually responsible. That's interesting. And consistent with his backstory (I think he's used to feeling guilty because he abandoned Johnny and that still weighs on him).

Oh and none of this is my ship, by the way. Except Aneela/Delle Seyah. I'm suddenly rooting for those crazy kids. And Pree/Gared, of course.

17 hours ago, tessaray said:

I think D'avin is self-aware enough to know he's on the list of wrong guys. 

I am absolutely certain (because of the great, almost exasperated way Luke said that line) that D'avin considers himself to be one of those wrong guys. If not the wrongest. That's what made the moment work.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Princess Lucky