Mr. Mercedes - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[Meredith Quill]

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[Meredith Quill]

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[2727]

So this is supposed to be King's "straight" detective story, eh? He can't help making it creepy! 

The incest angle, oy.

Now it makes me weird to say I'm enjoying it. The only part so far that's made me twist my mouth is Bill supposedly in danger of being arrested and sent to prison for not shooting someone who was trespassing on his property. Drinking or not. Maybe I've lived in Florida too long.

Holland Taylor is fun as horny neighbor Ida.

[AnimeMania]

I almost feel that the person they are showing to be the "Mercedes Killer" isn't the real "Mercedes Killer". The "low-tech", non-specific, randomness of the killings doesn't really fit well with tech savvy Barry. I wonder if Barry figured out who the Mercedes Killer was and is trying to lead the Detective to the real killer. But if that was true, it would mean that the real "Mercedes Killer" was that lady who said her car was stolen.

[AnimeMania]

I like the look of Mr. Mercedes basement lair lots of different types of computer parts although there should have been more desktop computers and fewer laptops. That is what you would expect from someone who works retail at an electronics store.

There is no way Mr. Mercedes could have built that remote control in his basement, it was too compact and professional looking.

Maybe they will tell us why Mr. Mercedes killed all those people, so I can stop sympathizing with him.

[candall]

Hey, a forum!  A funky all-episodes thread, but I'll take it.  There really seem to be so few interesting shows this summer. Thanks!

I've read the book, which colors so much of my impression, I should go post there.  Meanwhile, I'll repeat my observation from The Sinner forum:  Scruffy disheveled clinically depressed Det. Brendan Gleeson is twinsies with scruffy disheveled masochist Det. Bill Pullman.

Agree that Holland Taylor is a hoot as the thirsty pragmatic neighbor.  Ha, that's kind of who I expected to be when I ripened, but I missed by a mile.

[BigBlueMastiff]

No sympathy, for Dr. Jekyll, I mean Mr. Mercedes, running over those poor people, and than tormenting the woman whose car you stole to do it, evil. They keep harping on whether or not she left the keys in the car, but does that matter? Either way it's not her fault her car was used in a horrific crime. Anyone have any thoughts on why they keep bringing this issue up?

The incest was gross, but Barry whining about being bullied, bad childhood, and so on, there are plenty of people that do not direct their anger by killing innocent people. Barry is a POS, can't wait until he gets caught, just please don't hurt Jerome.

[Anela]

Oh, was the third episode last night? I'll have to look for it. 

[Robodude]

I'll start!  First....loved the book....wasn't thrilled about the trilogy...but I digress

My first impression from the opening scenes (job fair lineup) was "hey, this is exactly what i envisioned this would look like". 

But...the Det Ret's accent? 

The neighbor lady being a focal point early on?

Mrs Trilani's backstory, especially the part with the Mercedes dealership and mechanic relating what they recalled?

Are they going to switch the "big event" at the end from a boy band concert to a trade show?

I haven't seen yesterday's ep yet......so I have great hopes still being that King was a co-producer....

[jenrising]

5 hours ago, BigBlueMastiff said:

No sympathy, for Dr. Jekyll, I mean Mr. Mercedes, running over those poor people, and than tormenting the woman whose car you stole to do it, evil. They keep harping on whether or not she left the keys in the car, but does that matter? Either way it's not her fault her car was used in a horrific crime. Anyone have any thoughts on why they keep bringing this issue up?

The incest was gross, but Barry whining about being bullied, bad childhood, and so on, there are plenty of people that do not direct their anger by killing innocent people. Barry is a POS, can't wait until he gets caught, just please don't hurt Jerome.

About the car, without getting into book spoilers and beyond the guilt tripping, it does matter. Figuring out how the killer got the car can help tell the cops who might have done it. If she had left the keys in the car then it could be as he says in the letter, a random person happening upon the car and stealing it to commit the crime. 

But if she didn't leave the keys in, then there's got to be another way for the killer to access those keys. Which would suggest someone she knows who has access to the car before, or access to her home. 

There are other reasons it matters in the book but they're spoilers. 

[jenrising]

One change from the book I'm glad they made is (so far) getting rid of Jerome's alter-ego/voice character or whatever the hell that was. 

[candall]

I'm old enough to remember getting thrills and chills from King's early stuff.  (The first time I noted the name was running across the short story, "Children of the Corn," when I was sneaking a peek at my dad's Playboys.)  For several years, though, not so much, but I keep reading anyway--maybe based on sentimentality, or hope.

I thought the book was decent, not terrific.  Every now and then it crosses my mind to get the sequel at the library, but then ::shrug:: I forget.

 

The "Mystery of The Key" wasn't nearly worth all the buildup, and I'm surprised to see it emphasized again in the show.

I don't even remember the neighbor character, but Holland Taylor makes everything better.   The grass-mower kid, trying to balance with his feet in two different worlds, was the best character in the book--not getting much attention in the show.

I think it's the reverse with the lesbian co-worker.  I enjoy her bitchiness and she appears to be an important character in the show, but I don't recall that she has anything major to do with any of the storylines.

****************

Unrelated, but what do you think of making a new "It" movie, which I keep seeing advertised?  It was a scary book that just got plain weird in the end, then they made a scary movie out of it, with a weird end, and now it looks like they've made another scary movie out it, with--chances are--a weird end.  Yes, evil clowns are some scary shit, but the new clown doesn't really look much scarier than the Tim Curry clown.  Do people in Hollywood realize it now costs about fifty bucks for two people to go to a movie, assuming they want popcorn & a Diet Coke?

[AnimeMania]

26 minutes ago, jenrising said:

But if she didn't leave the keys in, then there's got to be another way for the killer to access those keys.

It looks like they are going down the road of sci-fi with Mr. Mercedes' remote that can control anything you point it at. Maybe he can just point it at cars and it unlocks doors, starts ignitions, controls street lights, controls railroad crossing gates. 

Addition:

The software doing things like permanently deleting emails and videos might be explained by Barry working on Bill Hodges laptop which looks pretty beat up. Jerome or Lou might be smart enough to spot a Barry modification.

Edited August 24, 2017 by AnimeMania
Additons

[molshoop]

5 hours ago, candall said:

 Every now and then it crosses my mind to get the sequel at the library, but then ::shrug:: I forget.

I really liked the first two books, but haven't read the third. I just had a feeling it would drag the story down. 

I don't like the casting for Bill.  Not a bad actor, just the wrong actor.

[Soobs]

I read the book and I'm hoping they throw some new stuff in there because so far the suspense is not killing me. I'm a little confused on the timeline. How old is is this guy supposed to be? Was he old enough when the crime happened to pull it off? Also, did they style him like Adam Lanza (Sandy Hook shooter) on purpose? If so, that's a messed up but also quite effective.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Soobs

[Thrifty]

Didn't realize this was happening until I saw this forum pop up.

 

The book was neat because it involved Stephen King stepping out of his comfort zone of horror / supernatural and just doing straight crime thriller.  The second book was the same, but was a new story not heavily connected to the first, although it did feature Detective Hodges, Jerome, and Holly.   The third book tied back to the first book, having the same antagonist, but King abandoned the original concept and went back to supernatural mind control nonsense.

 

I dunno how much enjoyment I'd get out of a mystery series when I know how it turns out.  Although the book itself was a Columbo style "reverse whodunit".  When is this show on and what channel?

[candall]

Bad news, @Thrifty, if you're not a Directv subscriber.  I didn't even know this until Mr. Mercedes, but Directv provides its people with an exclusive channel called "Audience."  (Oops, guess I should be saying AT&T instead of Directv--I'm really unhappy about that, for some reason.)

The Audience channel has something good on sometimes, but nothing you'd ever be gnashing your teeth about missing--which includes Mr. Mercedes, imho.  The Sinner is an adequate substitute.

[Thrifty]

1 minute ago, candall said:

Bad news, @Thrifty, if you're not a Directv subscriber.  I didn't even know this until Mr. Mercedes, but Directv provides its people with an exclusive channel called "Audience."  (Oops, guess I should be saying AT&T instead of Directv--I'm really unhappy about that, for some reason.)

The Audience channel has something good on sometimes, but nothing you'd ever be gnashing your teeth about missing--which includes Mr. Mercedes, imho.  The Sinner is an adequate substitute.

Ick.  I hate the proliferation of content exclusive to one subscription service.  I'm not about to get some shitty sattelite connection for one show.  Well maybe it'll come to DVD or something next year.

[candall]

I hear you.  I'm in an isolated area, with barely enough download speed to see this page.  (Freecell, Freecell . . . page!)  I would kill for Netflix and I get extremely frustrated hearing about all the new Hulu/Amazon/Epix series.

 

You feel better about your options now, right?  heh

[Robodude]

On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 2:53 PM, candall said:

Unrelated, but what do you think of making a new "It" movie, which I keep seeing advertised?  It was a scary book that just got plain weird in the end, then they made a scary movie out of it, with a weird end, and now it looks like they've made another scary movie out it, with--chances are--a weird end. 

I'm thrilled that the early reviews of IT have been mostly over the top positive.....but the idea that they'd somehow be able to replicate "turtles flying through space" at the end seems too much to ask.

Actually...I just wish King hadn't gone down that rabbit hole in the book at all.  It was spectacular.....sans that BS.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Robodude

[candall]

2 hours ago, Robodude said:

I'm thrilled that the early reviews of IT have been mostly over the top positive.....but the idea that they'd somehow be able to replicate "turtles flying through space" at the end seems too much to ask.

Actually...I just wish King hadn't gone down that rabbit hole in the book at all.  It was spectacular.....sans that BS.

Agree. 

I'm just now watching SyFy's 47-hour (with commercials) broadcast of the original, and it's a tight little movie, switching back and forth nicely between the kids and their adult counterparts.

[rubaco]

4 hours ago, Thrifty said:

Ick.  I hate the proliferation of content exclusive to one subscription service.  I'm not about to get some shitty sattelite connection for one show.  Well maybe it'll come to DVD or something next year.

The first two episodes are available online and free for everyone, if you're interested. 

[Thrifty]

Just now, rubaco said:

The first two episodes are available online and free for everyone, if you're interested. 

I'm watching the first episode right now.  I saw something about a service that might let me buy just the ability to stream online, without being an AT&T customer.  I think it said I can get a 7 day free trial, so maybe when the series finishes airing I'll sign up for that and binge watch.

[Thrifty]

One episode in, it looks pretty faithful to the book.  Mr. Mercedes sent a video instead of a printed letter, which I think is an improvement.

That weird neighbor lady is a new character.  I wonder why they added her.  Is she supposed to be comic relief?

Also wonder why they gave the boss at the electronics store a new nickname of "Robi".  Not a big deal, but a strange decision.

I didn't picture Brady's mother looking that way.  I kind of pictured someone stockier and more matronly.

It looks like Holly hasn't appeared on screen yet, but I did look at the IMDB page and the actress they cast for the role is much younger than the character.  In the book, Holly was in her 40s.

Also, I never pictured Hodges as Irish.

The incestuous overtones between Brady and his mother were in the book, as was the scene of him masturbating while envisioning her, but that was still super gross to see.

[Heatsja]

So many F-bombs.  I'm not sure I can take it anymore.  

[Robodude]

21 hours ago, Thrifty said:

One episode in, it looks pretty faithful to the book.  Mr. Mercedes sent a video instead of a printed letter, which I think is an improvement.

That weird neighbor lady is a new character.  I wonder why they added her.  Is she supposed to be comic relief?

I didn't picture Brady's mother looking that way.  I kind of pictured someone stockier and more matronly.

It looks like Holly hasn't appeared on screen yet, but I did look at the IMDB page and the actress they cast for the role is much younger than the character.  In the book, Holly was in her 40s.

Also, I never pictured Hodges as Irish.

Spot on!  The first letter was analyzed by the Det Ret in super detail....phrasing, word choice....

I also saw Brady's mom as being older, stockier....someone who wouldn't be able to get out of her chair later when she eats her last burger... :-)

Holly is written as a child/adult....someone mentally withdrawn at an older age.  I haven't see who they have playing her...

Yes...Hodges with the heavy accent was not what I had in mind AT ALL (love the actor....was awesome in In Bruges....just not right for this role).

Trilani's sister Janey was definitely older than Mary Louise-Parker in the book.  As much as they make Hodges seem attractive to other women, there's no way I'd believe him getting on top of her later....much less them falling in love with each other.

My take on the neighbor (Ida) is that she's being given a much bigger role in the show to set up her being killed by Brady in a way that will really get under Hodges' skin.  I can't think of any other reason to push her so hard into the story.  Janey will be the love interest later....me thinks this is just a Macguffin of sorts.

[Thrifty]

Okay.  The scene where Lou deals with the gay bashing customer.... What was that all about?  He said "I don't like it when alternative lifestyles are flaunted"....  Did I not notice something?  How is she flaunting her orientation?  If it weren't stated over and over again I wouldn't think Lou was gay.

[BigBlueMastiff]

Quote

Okay.  The scene where Lou deals with the gay bashing customer.... What was that all about?  He said "I don't like it when alternative lifestyles are flaunted"....  Did I not notice something?  How is she flaunting her orientation?  If it weren't stated over and over again I wouldn't think Lou was gay.

I think the jerk customer assumed she was gay based on her appearance, completely idiotic but typical of the narrow-minded.

[millennium]

It feels like I've been seeing Mr. Mercedes in the media every other week for the past six months as some lunatic somewhere drives a car into a crowd of people.

King has always been a bit prescient about this kind of thing.   He wrote about school shootings before they became popular among psychos; in fact, he stopped the publication of "Rage" for fear that it was inspiring shootings.

I had never really heard about a car being used as a mass murder weapon before Mr. Mercedes.  Now, sadly, it has become almost commonplace.   Given that it has hit home in Charlottesville recently, I'm not sure this series is a very good idea at the moment.

[rubaco]

millennium, King actually got the idea for the book from a real-life incident. I remember seeing an interview with him at the time the first book came out. I think a woman in Ohio (?) tried to kill a romantic rival who was standing in a line with other job-seekers, so she drove her car into the crowd. At the time, it probably seemed like an unusual tactic. Unfortunately now we hear about cars going into crowds almost regularly.

[Thrifty]

14 hours ago, Robodude said:

Holly is written as a child/adult....someone mentally withdrawn at an older age.  I haven't see who they have playing her...

Yes...Hodges with the heavy accent was not what I had in mind AT ALL (love the actor....was awesome in In Bruges....just not right for this role).

Trilani's sister Janey was definitely older than Mary Louise-Parker in the book.  As much as they make Hodges seem attractive to other women, there's no way I'd believe him getting on top of her later....much less them falling in love with each other.

My take on the neighbor (Ida) is that she's being given a much bigger role in the show to set up her being killed by Brady in a way that will really get under Hodges' skin.  I can't think of any other reason to push her so hard into the story.  Janey will be the love interest later....me thinks this is just a Macguffin of sorts.

They're handling Brady's taunting of Hodges a lot better.  In the book, it was clear how he drove Olivia Trelawney to suicide, but I could never really figure out what his game plan with Hodges was supposed to be.  The visual and audible components that the show adds make it a lot more obvious.  Those video clips with the mother and her baby are super creepy.

 

I kind of remember Olivia Trelawney and Janey Patterson's ages being kind of ambiguous in the book, so I can buy Mary Louise Parker in the Janey Patterson role. 

 

The role of Holly Gibney went to 28 year old actress Justine Lupe.  So definitely younger than Book-Holly.  I'm curious on how they will introduce her.

Spoiler laced speculation below.

Spoiler

In the book, as you may remember, Holly was introduced after Janey was killed by the car bomb intended for Bill Hodges.  So either Janey has to die to bring in Holly which still leaves the question of what Ida's purpose is, or Holly has to be introduced in a different way.  One or both of them is gonna have to die.

 

Possibly Brady will try to poison Ida instead of Jerome's dog, and this poisoning will be the one that backfires.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Thrifty

[Thrifty]

12 hours ago, millennium said:

It feels like I've been seeing Mr. Mercedes in the media every other week for the past six months as some lunatic somewhere drives a car into a crowd of people.

King has always been a bit prescient about this kind of thing.   He wrote about school shootings before they became popular among psychos; in fact, he stopped the publication of "Rage" for fear that it was inspiring shootings.

I had never really heard about a car being used as a mass murder weapon before Mr. Mercedes.  Now, sadly, it has become almost commonplace.   Given that it has hit home in Charlottesville recently, I'm not sure this series is a very good idea at the moment.

After 9/11, people said the same thing about an episode of The Lone Gunmen which featured badguys flying a plane into the World Trade Center.  But it doesn't really take a genius to figure these sorts of things out.  Those are both pretty obvious means of mass murder.

[millennium]

Just now, Thrifty said:

After 9/11, people said the same thing about an episode of The Lone Gunmen which featured badguys flying a plane into the World Trade Center.  But it doesn't really take a genius to figure these sorts of things out.  Those are both pretty obvious means of mass murder.

Many things in life are obvious, but it takes a certain frame of mind, you know?  Me personally, it never occurred to me someone might plow a car into a crowd of innocent people.    But it did after I read Mr. Mercedes.  Then it started happening in the news again and again.   I would argue that the novelty of the idea (and it was fresh when King wrote it, even though the book itself sucks) has rapidly expired due to the real life horror associated with these acts of terror.   Before, it was just a scary what-if scenario.  Now it's sobering, sickening reality.   Who wants to watch a show about that?  

[RedMal]

I haven't read the book, but I remember when it came out and heard some mixed reviews. I just found out this week that it has already been adapted and binged the first four episodes.

When I saw Jack Bender being involved in Mr. Mercedes, I didn't get my hopes high.  After all, he was involved in Under The Dome. I really liked the show, but not for the reasons we were supposed to. So, I didn't expect Mr. Mercedes to be anything that could be taken seriously.

And boy was I wrong.

The acting is pretty darn good and the story runs naturally. I wasn't sure Barry actually is Mr. Mercedes, since we didn't see his face in the first scene, maybe he's just some nutjob taking the credit.

Spoiler

But I got curious and looked up the book on Wikipedia, where it says it was him. Unless they change it in the show.

On 8/25/2017 at 10:26 PM, Soobs said:

I'm a little confused on the timeline. How old is is this guy supposed to be? Was he old enough when the crime happened to pull it off?

His little brother was born 1990, died 1994. They seemed to have few years of age difference. Mercedes killing happened 2009 and the show takes place two years after. So yeah, it makes sense.

[Roxie]

Just FYI, his name is "Brady," not "Barry."

[RedMal]

14 hours ago, Roxie said:

Just FYI, his name is "Brady," not "Barry."

Damn it. I almost wrote Brady, but someone else above me said Barry, so I thought I had misheard / remembered it wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

[Thrifty]

On 8/29/2017 at 5:44 PM, BigBlueMastiff said:

I think the jerk customer assumed she was gay based on her appearance, completely idiotic but typical of the narrow-minded.

I can comprehend somebody assuming a person is gay based on his or her appearance, sure.  I can't, however, see them getting angry enough to complain that the person is flaunting it.

 

The character was a lesbian in the book.  In the book, they can just say things like that plain and simple.  On TV, they don't have a lot of options for making this known, short of having her engage in some sort of romantic activity with another woman.  So they had that clunky scene.  I think it was just sloppy writing that could have been left out.  Lou's sexual orientation isn't important to the plot at all.  Maybe it could be one of the subtle drivers behind Brady's personality, if there were some kind of unrequited love.  But in the book I seem to recall he had nothing but contempt for her (not because she's gay; he just has a lot of contempt for virtually everyone).  And an unrequited love thing could've been done in any number of ways without making the character gay, then informing the viewers of this fact in such an awkward way.

[BigBlueMastiff]

5 hours ago, Thrifty said:

I can comprehend somebody assuming a person is gay based on his or her appearance, sure.  I can't, however, see them getting angry enough to complain that the person is flaunting it.

I hear you, but rationalizing hate is impossible.

[AnimeMania]

Jerome, I thought you were a computer genius until you said this: "Amazon web has a bunch of digital stuff up in the satellites, and Google too. It's called cloud computer storage." It was a good idea, why didn't Jerome suggest to Detective Hodges to use cloud computer storage to keep his files from being erased.

Why would Detective Hodges leave his truck window open when he knows that the Mercedes killer likes to rifle through his stuff, didn't he have all those police files in there.

Again, the device Brady uses to clone the Mercedes key is too small, especially if he built it himself.

[Anela]

So he let his little brother die. Did he kill his dad with that thing, too? Or was he hit by lightning? 

[Thrifty]

The wait is killing me!  I wanna watch this but don't have AT&T sattelite service.  There's an online subscription service, but I'm too cheap to pay for it.  Gonna get the free trial month once all the episodes are out, binge, then cancel before paying.  But looks like it's a few more weeks until then.

[AnimeMania]

Not much substance this episode, seems to set up some future storylines. Not sure about the corporate guys looking for managers for the electronics store. Would they be talking about employee/employer synergy BS or more technical/practical questions about routers, Blu-rays, TV trends in the upcoming months.

[Soobs]

This show is growing on me and the fact that I've forgotten how the book ends, is making it more interesting. Definitely got the sense he's going to kill his mom at some point. Also enjoyed seeing Stephen King get a big 'ol knife through his neck. Fun!

[Arcey]

So the rampage is in 2009, and now we're just 2 years later? I think it showed the year it's supposed to be now in the first episode, but I can't remember the year. I thought it was much more than just 2 years later, although I've also been wondering how old Brady was then, since he's not very old now.

By the way, I'm very impressed with this show, and think it's very well done, with good acting and writing. It's sooo creepy and just scary enough.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Arcey

[millahnna]

I don't remember them noting a specific year in the premiere at the job fair but I do recall the cut to detective dude post retirement noting it was two years later via title card.

[candall]

I'm kind of bored.   All the stuff from the book is exactly like the book and none of the new stuff adds anything to make the story richer.  (Except thirsty neighbor lady, Holland Taylor.)

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 4:33 PM, Robodude said:

My take on the neighbor (Ida) is that she's being given a much bigger role in the show to set up her being killed by Brady in a way that will really get under Hodges' skin.

I could absolutely get behind this, for purposes of additional tension.  Eek!

 

Oh, and I think the poisoned hamburger is still in the freezer where Brady tossed it.  I keep waiting for the part where that burger comes back into play, because I thought that was the most creepy-classic S. King bit of the book.  Couldn't believe the dog survived, but YAY!!!  All kinds of win there.

[MisterBluxom]

I'm surprised there is so little activity on this forum for this show. I think it's probably the best of all the new shows currently being shown. I include

Gone, Leah Remini Aftermath, The Sinner, Room 104, T Deuce and Episodes.

Leah Remini is perhaps tied for the top spot (again just my opinion). But to really enjoy that show, one needs to know something about Scientology.

As far as Mr. Mercedes goes, everything is just top rate. The acting is terrific. The situations and character development is all superb. I just fear there will only be 10 or 12 episodes and only a single season.

This show is just so good, I hope they find a way to extend its run for a few seasons.

[Thrifty]

9 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I'm surprised there is so little activity on this forum for this show. I think it's probably the best of all the new shows currently being shown. I include

Gone, Leah Remini Aftermath, The Sinner, Room 104, T Deuce and Episodes.

Leah Remini is perhaps tied for the top spot (again just my opinion). But to really enjoy that show, one needs to know something about Scientology.

As far as Mr. Mercedes goes, everything is just top rate. The acting is terrific. The situations and character development is all superb. I just fear there will only be 10 or 12 episodes and only a single season.

This show is just so good, I hope they find a way to extend its run for a few seasons.

I watched Remini's show during the first season.  Enjoyed it, but couldn't get into it for the second.  It just felt too intense and I sort of lost interest too.  It sucks what Scientology is doing, but it's not really my fight.

 

Anyway, back on topic.... I only saw the first two episodes of this show because, as I mentioned earlier, I don't have AT&T satellite service and don't want to pay for a month or two of the streaming service just to watch it all exactly once.  Gonna binge it all during a 7 day free trial once the season ends. 

 

The book is part 1 of a trilogy.... although the second book is only loosely tied to the Mercedes Killer case.  Hodges, Jerome, and Holly are there but it centers around some lost manuscripts by a reclusive author who is murdered in the beginning of the book, 25 years before the main action.  The third book revisits the Mercedes Killer, but it goes in a supernatural direction.  So they could adapt those other two books into additional seasons. 

[RedMal]

This show is so well made, but why the hell does it feel so stale? I've started to lose interest and I don't even know why.