S02.E08: Holes

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jesse investigates a clue about God; Tulip makes friends with a new neighbor; a glimpse into Cassidy's past relationship with Denis.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Did we find out that Cassidy is 120?  That would mean that he was 50 when Denis was born.  Since he didn't look 50 in the flashback, I guess that vampires are fertile!

(I took the telephone conversation with, presumably, another vampire who mentioned Cassidy probably having many sons to mean men he had turned into vampires, based on Cassidy's remarks.)

Edited August 9, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[pezgirl7]

I think vampires are fertile, based on the dates. I thought the remarks from the guy on the phone were about actual kids. It would make sense to have fathered a lot of children if you've been alive for so long. Also, Cassidy doesn't seem like he would want to sire other vampires.

But poor Cassidy! I felt bad for him having to make that decision. For such a crazy show, it really can tug at your emotions. Also, he has a lovely singing voice!

I'm finding myself not really caring about Eugene in Hell. Hopefully he can escape it soon. Does Hitler want to escape too? That would be bad. I didn't really understand what the extrapolator was suppose to do.

I didn't really like Tulip that much last season, but I like her now. She gets stuff done! Too bad her new friend is a fake.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

45 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

I didn't really understand what the extrapolator was suppose to do.

I guess that based off of the prisoner's worst day ever, it extrapolates what an even worse day would be like?

[Lantern7]

New Orleans tech guys for the win. They'll clear the film, find the serial number of a gun, and mess it up on purpose because you obviously killed that guy, right? Would not have blamed Jesse if he used the Word to hurt those guys. Nothing major. "Slam your heads into the nearest wall until you're unconscious. Then shit your pants when you wake up." Meanwhile, the Grail gets to advertise in the background, which . . . okay. Maybe if we got 5-10 seconds of Herr Starr dancing. BTW, when you see a bunch of TVs that aren't right there, do you expect Billie Piper to pop up, shouting "DOCTOR!" on mute?

Basically, hell is the Oswald State Correctional Facility. I kinda feel bad for the (fictional) inmates that died on Oz, going from one shittily-run prison to another. At least they have weight machines and tattoo equipment to bide the time while the bosses fix things. And the "inmates" are organized haphazardly. Child-drowner, rapist, Hitler. That makes so much sense. And I still want to know the deal with the caveman. Is he basically Red in The Shawshank Redemption? Or would that he Adolph? Man, this show, right? Also, Eugene had a decent singing voice. Poor bastard.

Meanwhile, Cassidy suffers with his dilemma, and Tulip basically sleepwalks through life, basically merely eating, sleeping, and getting shot in the chest a lot. Kinda meh, but you can't have total insanity every week, y'know?

[Eulipian 5k]

Is Jesse actually doing anything that anybody but Jesse cares 2 sh#ts about? So useless, no clever dialog, no philosophy, no insight, no fighting or excitement, and the god he's looking for can't be much. This twerp is the most uninteresting/unlikable character on the show. He also does. not. preach.  anything to anyone. Does he belong on this show?

[Bruinsfan]

13 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I guess that based off of the prisoner's worst day ever, it extrapolates what an even worse day would be like?

That lowers my opinion of Eugene considerably, if he thinks Tracy living to give Custer a handjob is more horrifying than blowing her own brains out at the thought of kissing him.

3 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

... So useless, no clever dialog, no philosophy, no insight, ...

Yeah, given the source material I didn't really expect any of those things. I'm in it strictly for the actors' performances and hte production values.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Bruinsfan

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 8/8/2017 at 1:04 PM, Bruinsfan said:

On 8/8/2017 at 0:02 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I guess that based off of the prisoner's worst day ever, it extrapolates what an even worse day would be like?

That lowers my opinion of Eugene considerably, if he thinks Tracy living to give Custer a handjob is more horrifying than blowing her own brains out at the thought of kissing him.

I think Eugene was irrationally obsessed with Tracy when alive, and, following all the experiences he's had since her death and his disfigurement, including the trauma of being sent to hell, is absolutely not rational when it comes to her now.

Edited August 13, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[pezgirl7]

I like Jesse. Granted his storyline isn't super exciting right now, but I think that's the point. He's in a rut and is kind of wandering aimlessly. His search for God is a literal metaphor for him finding his religion. Also, how can you not like the Dork Docs? :)

 

16 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

That lowers my opinion of Eugene considerably, if he thinks Tracy living to give Custer a handjob is more horrifying than blowing her own brains out at the thought of kissing him.

I looked at it as Eugene finally getting the one thing he wanted, and being so happy that it made him sing, but then having it get taken away, was worse than her rejecting him from the very beginning. He can't really be blamed for Tracy killing herself, so I wonder if him trying to kill himself was more about her rejection of him, and less about him actually feeling guilty that she killed herself.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

Also, how can you not like the Dork Docs? :)

I realize they were trying to help Jesse, but in real life, wouldn't they have made their edits on a copy of the original CD?   I guess I shouldn't expect realism!

[SoSueMe]

57 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

I like Jesse. Granted his storyline isn't super exciting right now, but I think that's the point. He's in a rut and is kind of wandering aimlessly. His search for God is a literal metaphor for him finding his religion. Also, how can you not like the Dork Docs? :)

 

I looked at it as Eugene finally getting the one thing he wanted, and being so happy that it made him sing, but then having it get taken away, was worse than her rejecting him from the very beginning. He can't really be blamed for Tracy killing herself, so I wonder if him trying to kill himself was more about her rejection of him, and less about him actually feeling guilty that she killed herself.

Yeah, lol, Geek Squad (real) Nerd herd (Chuck) and now the Dork Docs. What's not to love? :) 

[AnimeMania]

Did Eugene get his "TRACY" tattoo in "Prison/Hell" or "in real life"?

[pezgirl7]

7 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Did Eugene get his "TRACY" tattoo in "Prison/Hell" or "in real life"?

I'm guessing prison, because I think the reveal of him doing pull-ups and looking kind of buff, and then having a prison tattoo was meant to show that he was trying to embrace his new life as a "tough guy" in Hell.

[tennisgurl]

I kind of want to know what the story is for all the people in Hell that we have seen. Are they all murderers and rapist and Hitlers and what not, or are some people there for lighter things too? I don't know how this world works, so I don't know! Eugene is trying to embrace being bad in Hell, but its not really working. I think his Hell is knowing that Tracey didn't so much reject him, but he didn't tell her how he felt quick enough. When he finally told her the truth, she had moved on to "God", so maybe he feels bad that he made his feelings known when he did?

Cassidy has a nice voice, and I actually feel really bad for him. He clearly wasn't much of a father, but he seems to love Dennis, and at some point he wanted to be a father. But making someone a vampire is a pretty big deal, and Cassidy doesn't seem to be super happy with his life, even if he isn't particularly broody or angsty. Its an interesting vampire plot, one we haven't seen a whole lot of, so its very interesting to see him struggling with helping or not helping his much older son. Given that Cassidy is around 120 years old, and vampires have the ability to have kids, I would be surprised if Dennis is the only kid he's ever fathered. Maybe we will meet more? I also want to know more about his backstory. Who turned him into a vampire, and why?

Poor Tulip will be so sad when she finds out her new friend is playing her. Or pissed off. Probably both. I like that the agent tried to get in with Tulip by playing the "abused girlfriend on the run" angle to connect with Tulip, and that didn't really work, but Tulip got interested when she realized they had the same favorite cereal. I wonder if they assume Tulip has a history of abusive boyfriends, because a lot of the guys we have seen her with were violent criminals? Because while Tulip does certainly have a type (beat down happy criminals), none of them have seemed violent towards her. Maybe this will at least give her someone else to talk to.

I love New Orleans, but I'm ready to get this road trip moving. Next location soon?

[Eulipian 5k]

53 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

Yeah, lol, Geek Squad (real) Nerd herd (Chuck) and now the Dork Docs. What's not to love? :) 

They also reminded me of the teenagers who ran those Block Buster stores like they were Keepers of the Pearly Gates. (I'm sure some ended up working for the Geek Squad... to get the employee discounts.)

[Babalooie]

9 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Does he belong on this show?

I'm afraid so because the title of the show is "Preacher" and that's Jesse.  On another note, the hubby asked how Denis came to know that Cassidy is a vampire.  I have no clue.  Who has read the original comics and can answer that?

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Babalooie said:

On another note, the hubby asked how Denis came to know that Cassidy is a vampire.  I have no clue.  Who has read the original comics and can answer that?

Spoiler

I'm putting this in spoiler tags because some people don't like comic-talk here, but there is nothing like Denis in the comics. You can ask me any question about the comics over in that thread, if you want to. 

[SoSueMe]

I'm wondering if the person that Cass was talking to on the phone is actually his maker and so wields influence over Cassidy, and speaking from his experience is trying to prevent Cassidy from making Denis a vampire.

Sorry, I'm the queen of the run-on sentence and it still came out clear as mud....

[ganesh]

23 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Did we find out that Cassidy is 120? 

I recall this from a prior episode. 

22 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

They'll clear the film, find the serial number of a gun, and mess it up on purpose because you obviously killed that guy, right?

No, the serial number on the gun was already scratched off. They didn't doctor it. They thought he was holding the gun though. 

This was slow. Jesse missed a key point with the CD having Grail Industries on it, and I find it hard that it was overlooked. I completely buy Tulip's ptsd, but this episode was just treading water. They were doing good for a while, but the uneven pace isn't doing the show any favors. 

[thuganomics85]

So, the hole that everyone in Hell tries to avoid ends up making the prisoner's worst day even worse?  Which, apparently for Eugene means that instead of Tracy dying, she likes him back, but it's too late because she already has a thing with.... Jesse?  Not entirely sure if that is actually worse then her killing herself, but I guess I can see why it would hurt Eugene even more to give a glimpse of hope, only to find her giving a handy to the man who actually damned him to Hell.

Hey, Lara the Lounge Singer has finally returned (along with Rufus from Timeless!)  I hope Julie Ann Emery starts getting more to do now.  I continue to be impressed over how different she looks each time the character throws on a wig.

The scenes with Cassidy and Denis were sad, and well acted by both Joseph Gilgun and Ronald Guttman.  I'm guessing Cassidy is going to end up turning Denis in the end, but will end up regretting it for some reason.  That Seamus guy he was speaking to will end up being correct over how he should have just let his him die, but I can see why Cassidy will not be able to let his son just wither away in front of him, even if he hasn't exactly been a great father, to put it mildly.

The Dork Docs were hilarious.  I love that they assumed Jesse was the shooter and trying to cover his tracks, and they had no qualms about it.  I kind of hope they find some way to have them appear again.

Next week looks like it could be big!

[ghoulina]

It seems like everyone is in their own narcissistic little world right now. They're all dealing with their own thing, and not really that interested in what the others are doing. Tulip SEEMED like she was going to help Jesse on a mission, but she really just wanted a new fridge. Cassidy actually seems the most interested in his buddies, and his dilemma is the one I sympathize with the most. I don't know, they all just feel so disjointed from each other and I miss the camaraderie. 

And, honestly, I don't even get why Tulip is SO messed up about what happened with SOK. Hasn't she had at least a dozen near death experiences in her lifetime? 

I find the interactions with Cassidy and Dennis the most interesting at this point. It's just so original, and Gilgan's tenderness is very real. Good good stuff. 

So I had a totally different take on what happened to Eugene in Hell. I thought that they realized he didn't actually belong there, so they had to set up a scenario where he WOULD end up in hell. A failed suicide isn't Hell-worthy, but if he actually killed himself after watching Tracy with the Preacher? I don't know. I could be WAY off. But I thought the Hell authorities were trying to make him do something worthy of being there, since they didn't want to send him back. 

[ganesh]

I'm not seeing anything wrong with Jesse. He's still staying on mission. There's not much for the others to actually do until he can pick up some clues. 

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

And, honestly, I don't even get why Tulip is SO messed up about what happened with SOK. Hasn't she had at least a dozen near death experiences in her lifetime? 

I can buy it. She's gotten out of scrapes with humans, but this was something literally from hell. I also think she feels like Jesse left her down since he was late. I don't think that's fair, but she's harboring some resentment. 

I'm hoping there's some payoff for hell sooner than later. But I like the possible idea that Hitler has been plotting to escape hell and needed the right second to do it. 

[Snookums]

Quote

That lowers my opinion of Eugene considerably, if he thinks Tracy living to give Custer a handjob is more horrifying than blowing her own brains out at the thought of kissing him.

I think it was more the combination of being given hope and having that hope betrayed that made it worse--he's felt guilty about Tracy but that guilt was really misplaced, since he didn't do anything to her but try to give her a kiss--she chose to end her life, or at least try to.

But now the extrapolator is showing how there's no way he would ever get what he wants. Guilt, despite its tortures, can actually be a comfort because it is a warped form of hope; hope wearing the guise of "If Only." "If only I'd told her how I really felt--it was my lying that made her shoot herself, not disgust!" To be granted that hope and then have it snatched away again? Ugh. Hell's function is to destroy hope, utterly, consciously, deliberately.

Eugene is the only person in Hell that we've seen so far with a conscience; he can't help himself from trying to help others even though he knows it means things get worse. Everybody else in his dorm room was in utter denial about what they'd done--Hell wasn't bringing them any clarity or repentance, that was for sure. I'm quite sure Hitler is seeing this and getting ready to exploit it for his own escape (I don't trust him as far as I could smack that mustache.) I think he's going to be the monkey wrench in the great cosmic works;  throwing the whole kit and caboodle off balance.

 

Quote

And, honestly, I don't even get why Tulip is SO messed up about what happened with SOK. Hasn't she had at least a dozen near death experiences in her lifetime? 

I think her past experiences made her feel more alive, like she'd cheated death and won. She's clearly a thrill seeker and addicted to this lifestyle. She left Jesse and married that gangster in a bizarre effort to "settle down" and pretend it was all behind her but it was all fake. Until now she's never really faced what death means. That it means the end, that she's never really thought about what's going to happen to her, to her soul, that she has a future, not just a present. It must feel like a slimy, damp washcloth being pressed over her nose and mouth at all times.

It makes an interesting contrast with Denis's fear of death. He's never had any of the experiences the trio has had, even with Cassidy The Vamp for a dad. He's just a regular person, alone, afraid, dying slowly and painfully. For him it's an unknown he's begging for help to avoid. For Tulip Death has become something she can't unknow.